John Doe's goal was getting a instant ticket to Heaven through religion loophole since his life was taken by someone's hands out of Anger and Wrathful Vengeance.
8mm from 1999 from the same writer of Seven: Nicolas Cage Joaquin Phoenix Maybe Nicolas Cage's best performance/film. Blood freezing 🥶 Thriller. PS: they first ask Denzel Washington for Mills but Denzel say no "it's to demonic."
I think the most interesting thing about this film is that you don't even see a single murder on screen until the end, and the climactic ending involves a simple cardboard box that you never even see into. What makes it so disturbing is that it leaves everything to your imagination, and gets inside your head.
I agree with your point about leaving things to imagination gets inside your head more. The writer does that very well in this film. Another good example is the lust murder, all you get is a picture of the weapon and the incredible short performance of the male victim and it's super disturbing.
The "Jodie Foster told me to do it" reference was regarding the attempted murder of President Regan by John Hinckley Jr who had stalked and been obsessed with winning her favor/love after seeing her in Taxi Driver. He would call her, deliver letters to her - the experience was so traumatizing for her I believe she has only spoken about it in 2 interviews since the events as she hate to relive the experience.
I never even knew this. What a crazy story, sounds like something straight out of a Hollywood movie. "A young actress gets pulled into a conspiracy involving the assassination of the President after a psychotic killer develops an obsession over her"
"Some guy shot a monster called Reagan so he could bone A girl named Jodie Foster, if only he'd known..." -Hilltop Hoods "Fifty in Five" Check it out if you never heard it. Fifty years of history in five minutes of cultural references. Like Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" or REM's "It's the End of the World As We Know It", for the subsequent generation. Just masterful compiling of the ills of society to reflect on.
I remember when Morgan Freeman was once asked how he chooses roles. He simply said after reading the script if he doesn't understand it he probably shouldn't do it. I'm definitely glad he got it and was a part of this movie.
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part." Oof. What a great closing line! It summaries Detective Somerset's perspective so well.
I read this somewhere online so it might not be true, but the original ending was apparently. If you kill him he will win.....Brad Pitt shoots the killer....cut to black after the final shot is fired with him standing over the body. Everyone gets a few seconds in the pitch black theater to mull on the bleakness and then the credits roll. I like the ending as it is, but I think they missed out on an all time, holy shitballs ending to match the rest of that final scene, which is already a holy shitballs scene.
Anyone who has watched enough modern movies will have a good chance of guessing the twist at the end, but even then the impact of the actual twist is not dulled. It still hits as hard as ever. Seven is a true classic because its the movie all your favorite thrillers are inspired by.
Contrary common sense, a good mystery/thriller doesn't completely fool you, it gives you clues, making you feel like your with the protagonist figuring it out with him. That way it feels satisfying when you say I knew that was going to happen. It plants the thought without directly telling you.
The plan was to turn the sins against the sinners. It was never about death. Doe was the victim of his own envy and Mills the victim of his own wrath. At best, Mills' career was over. He didn't need to die to be a victim of his own wrath. Tracy committed none of the sins. She was murdered because Doe was really nothing more than a serial killer with delusions of grandeur, and Tracy was simply a tool. He was never the righteous man he claimed to be. He kept souvenirs like most serial killers. Gluttony didn't eat himself to death, Doe kicked him. Sloth was restrained for a year and wasn't even dead when they found him. The woman who took the pills could have called for help instead of committing suicide. His plan was flawed from the start if you think the outcome was simply about killing seven sinners. None of them needed to die for his plan to work, but their deaths were the sledgehammer that got everyone's attention. I think people get wrapped up in his speech in the car. I know I did at the time. But the older and wiser I get, I see that Mills' assesment of Doe was at least as accurate as Somerset's. He may have been more than a movie of the week, but he never rose above a great movie villain.
Tracy didn't become Envy. She was collateral damage and the only actual person killed by John Doe. Mills became Wrath and will eventually die in his sin of vengeance one way or another, which THEN completes the plan.
@@Punko1969 John Doe killed Tracy out of envy of their life. He believes his other kills are justifiable divine intervention, but not that one. It was his own sin, for which he deserved to die. Like he said he's not perfect, he's never been exceptional. His point by getting himself killed in the end was that sin is everywhere in everyone including himself.
That scene in the car towards the end of the movie is just so good. It builds suspense, gives you a glimpse into every character, and emphasizes the conviction and hypocritical nature of John Doe. Also I love the hilarious irony that you were saying "be wraith and shoot this fucker" and "I don't want him to win" before the reveal when that was exactly what he thought his win condition was.
Why did you think he wanted him kill himself 😂 The plan was for David to become wrath and kill the serial killer he was envy. The killer plan worked, he didn't care what happen to David after he was dead.
Not quite. JD didn't expect Mills to commit a suicide - that would be too easy on him. In fact during the ride he explained exactly what his goals were - and it's not deaths per se. Death was sometimes an inevitable outcome, sometimes a choice of a victim (f.e. pride). The main point, from the perspective of his 'religious' delusion, was to make a statement, a wake up call if you will, and from his own perspective, in his words: "I won't deny my own personal desire, to turn each sin against the sinner".
Yeah, a lot of people make the assumption that Jon Doe's intent was to commit seven murders because it starts out as the sort of movie where that's what would usually happen. In fact, we're meant to assume that's what kind of movie it is - a typical serial killer movie - and Fincher leads us merrily down that path for a while. But, like so many other tropes and expectations, Se7en ultimately subverts that assumption. I think, unfortunately, a lot of people never shift out of that first gear and spend WAY too long after the movie trying to figure out which are the seven murders, how they all tie in neatly to the theme, etc. Heck, I've even seen videos on YT trying to figure out which sin Tracy was "because she HAD TO be one bc she was one of the murders!" She wasn't one of the sins. She was simply a tool Doe used to get David to become Wrath and kill Envy. Period. She was a prop. Doe never says that seven *murders* is his goal. As @marshad82 mentioned, he explains in the police car that his purpose is to create a statement that people can't ignore and which will shock the public into waking up to the decay of society around them. And, while he uses murder (or the choice to unalive oneself) as one tool to create that statement/shock, seven themed murders weren't necessary to finish the piece because it was never about murder specifically (or, really, even punishing the sinners). It was about how he anticipated the public would react to the shocking, grotesque events he was crafting. For people who NEED it to be a little more symmetrical, though, it's worth noting that Mills lost the life he was living. He didn't physically die, sure, but he lost his wife (who, iirc, was also his high school sweetheart), his future baby, the life he was building with Tracy, probably his job/career. Yeah, he's breathing but his life, as he knew it, is violently and permanently over. In that way, Doe killed Mills before the box ever showed up. Mills just put the cherry on top by tanking his own career with a Wrathful shot to the head of an unarmed, handcuffed, kneeling suspect in custody. Like the Pride victim, Mills was given a choice though. If he could've controlled his Wrath, he might've listened to Somerset, put his gun down, and denied Jon Doe the final W. But Doe counted on the sinner being unable to control his sin... and he was right. THE GOOD NEWS? I think Mills was also right in the police car, about the public moving on from this story to the next big, titillating one pretty quickly and forgetting about Jon Doe. Doe's delusion was that the public would see what he did, snap out of their collective stupor, and follow his example. As we see in reality, especially now with our 24 hour news cycle, even the most horrific serial killers fade into the background relatively quickly, only to be remembered by edgy teens and middle-aged housewives who love "true crime" stuff. Doe's murders (and the way he went out) would make a huge splash in the news for a couple of cycles... and then some politician would get caught doing/saying something shady or some other horrific thing would happen elsewhere and the Jon Doe murders would scroll off the bottom of our day-to-day consciousness. Basically, Doe may have won the battle but I'm pretty certain he lost the war. On the other hand, his goal was to shock people into waking up and, while Doe's actions may not have affected the public the way he anticipated, he accomplished the goal on a much smaller scale: Somerset, who had given up and was retiring and retreating from the world, was so shocked by Doe's "statement" that he realized he actually did think the world is "worth fighting for" and decided to stay working law enforcement.
David Fincher's classic possesses one of the most captivating screenplays I've ever witnessed, marked by an extremely dark, somber, violent, gruesome story that ends with one of the most emotionally shocking conclusions to a movie, ever.
The "Jodie Foster made me do it" sentence was referring to the Reagan assassination attempt where the assassin claimed that he did it to impress Jodi Foster.
It feels like they don't make movies like this anymore. Glad you liked it. There is another movie with similar vibe The Bone Collector with Denzel Washington and Agelina Jolie.
Wow did you two ever nail it through almost the entire film! My girlfriend and I watched this in the theatre in '95 and our jaws were hanging open through the whole film!
The Lust death is so revolting, it leaves it entirely up to your imagination, we don't even see the aftermath like we do with the other deaths, but it's by far the most shocking to me.
in case no one else has mentioned it ... I am so glad that you guys show your video with subtitles on.. it makes it so much easier to follow the conversation especially if the film volume and commentary levels are not in sync
Love how this movie twists the Buddy-cop genre. The killer wins, 7 days from retirement and Sommerset's the one that makes it out okay, the chief isn't a yelling pain in the ass even though he's played by the drill instructor from Full Metal Jacket, and the one action scene was a chase done realistically for once right up until the bad guy gets the upper hand and just leaves. It's like the opposite of Lethal weapon
Love the speculating! I could literally SEE the gears turning with both of you. 😂The way this unfolds is SO good. t's not easy for a movie to absolutely baffle you with each new revelation and still somehow keep you engaged and hungry for answers. Unpredictable is great, but not so much that you don't CARE about what's happening, and I think this movie got that exactly right where so many don't, and I love that. And then, to call it back with the whole apathy conversation? Amazingly clever script. Dark but great.
The Jodi Foster reference at 14:00-ish, is a reference to the 1981 attempted assassination of President Reagan. John Hinkley (who is now on what used to be Twitter, for some reason) believed that if he k*lled President Reagan, Jodie Foster would fall in love with him.
This movie is law enforcer's worst nightmare. Like, imagine criminals targeting your family just to taunt you. Kevin Spacey is insanely creepy in this.. Probably his best performance of all time.
I don't know if you missed it but if you go to 51:47 in the edited reaction, and then go frame-by-frame through the next second while Mills is bending over saying "Oh god!", there's a two shot flash of his wife's face edited in. It's an intentional subliminal shot and most people miss it (it's a technique that's been used in other films, but not super common) because it's just a fraction of a second, but it's really bright and contrasts against the warmer tones of the shot of Mills and looks like a quick flash or blip when it goes by.
Fincher later used the same method in Fight Club, and that time instead of a flash in Brad Pitt's head it's a flash of Brad Pitt in someone else's head.
@@AGD_27also they splice in pictures of men's genitalia right before the credits just as the narrator says he and Tyler did in children's movies when they were projectionists 😂
Fun fact: The contract they signed for this movie said that the producers weren´t allowed to change the ending. Otherwise, they´ll have to use other actors instead of Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt if they wanted to change it. They really knew that the ending of the movie was special so they made sure to put in their contracts that they couldn´t change it.
They filmed several different endings but brad Pitt was the one most responsible for the ending we got. He said my character would shoot this man, I would shoot this man. He joined the project with the stipulation that the ending remain in tact. The collectors edition or box set or whatever with the extras on it has the alternate ending where somerset shoots doe because Mills is a younger man and he didn't want him to ruin his life.
@@fishblades Also, John Doe wouldn't have won if Somerset shot him instead since it wouldn't be done out of wrath but out of empathy for Mills as well as preventing evil from winning.
@@AdamtheGrey02 Same as if Mills had listened to Somerset and put his gun down instead of shooting Doe. Had Mills done that, Doe's coup de grace would've fizzled out, his big statement piece would be forever incomplete, and he would've lost. Like the Pride victim, Doe gave Mills the choice: Control your sin and you win/I lose. Indulge your sin and I win. Mills indulged.
@@johnplaysgames3120 Of course but the chances of that happening was zero to none lol. He was just too much of a hot head to simply not shoot a guy who just a few hours earlier, beheaded his wife.
@@AdamtheGrey02there is a storyboard on the DVD special features that shows one of the possible endings, which is Somerset shooting JD and saying "I'm retiring".
John Doe's total victory is thwarted not by Mills failing to commit suicide but by Somerset's decision to forgo retirement ("I'll be around"). They are dual protagonists to an extent, but this story really belongs to Somerset. We the audience are introduced to him before Mills. It's about his journey from the false self, where we find protagonists, to the true self where we leave them. His false self is pessimistic, detached, apathetic, defeated, convinced that there is no more point in the battles. Mills chastises him for this worldview but despite being seasoned he is still young and naive compared to the jaded Somerset. Mills and Tracy, in their own way, challenge Somerset's trajectory and his false beliefs. A part of him is reinvigorated not by the murders but by these two new relationships. Mills' worldview is shattered by Doe and his unraveling exposes him as a false protagonist. Somerset is too late to save Tracy, but he understands that the stakes are so much higher. He tries to save Mills, but he's already seen too many examples of the young man "feeding off of his emotions," as has Doe. Still, he doesn't admit defeat, not even after Mills empties his clip. He has fought the battle. The characters are all, in a way, reflections of the film's controlling theme as summarized by the Hemingway quote. Despite being opposed as protagonist and antagonist, both Somerset and Doe believe at the film's beginning that the world is neither a fine place nor worth fighting for. Somerset's triumph over Doe and the completion of his Hero's Journey is that he's become (or returned to, rather) the true self at the end -- "I agree with the second part."
The Jodie Foster line was a reference to (iirc) the guy who tried to assassinate Ronald Reagan. The guy had some psycho stalker crush on Jodie Foster, and did it in order to impress her. o.O
There is this criminally underrated movie that you should definitely consider reacting to called The Hitcher (1986). It would be somewhat fitting with spooky season upon us
John Doe didn't want Mills to kill himself. He only wanted wanted Mills to shoot him, which would fulfill his plan and complete the seven deadly sins. There were so many different endings, one of which had Somerset shooting John Doe to save Mills. In the end they decided to go with the worst possible outcome, which was the best possible ending.
Fantastic reaction as usual! I dont know what your schedule for reacting is, but really looking forward to the October lineup! Halloween season is upon us and as a huge fan of horror I really hope you guys are going to make a whole month out of it lol. Well maybe not the whole month, but there are a lot of great horror movies that came out this past year, as well as the older ones you guys havent seen yet. So, really really looking forward to that!
I remember going to the movies to see this. Probably the original’react’ movie bc my friend saw it and HAD to take me to see it. It has been the ONLY movie that I’ve seen that when it was over with everyone just silently walked out as if we all couldn’t believe what we saw and how the bad guy won.
Damn you guys guessed two of the bigger twists in this movie. Good job 👍🏽 I always love how you guys discuss movies and try to theorize about the movie you are watching 😊
Love that organ grinder music at the credits. Also, not many movies have their credits scroll down. My booth tech wouldn't shut up about it back then 😂
Hi Anthony/Kacee, this is a sick and twisted movie, one of Brad Pitts and Morgan Freemans best in my opinion. The last few minutes of this movie is stressful as hell ! 😳
The Bone Collector with Denzel Washington and Angelina Jolie is another thriller/ mystery that you guys might enjoy. Its kind of similar to Seven and worth a watch. Thanks for the video.
Fincher and his crew did such an amazing job in creating a specific world. The impression of a hardcore inner-city hellscape like the worst parts of Detroit, and in a state of perpetual gloom. But it was shot in sunny L.A. The diner scene was shot on Hollywood Blvd. Their job of light control was amazing.
Loved the reaction! Seven is one of my favorite thrillers. If you want another twisty mind-bending David Fincher thriller, check out The Game (1997) with Michael Douglas. It's a psychological thriller rather than a mystery/detective thriller, but I think you'd enjoy it. If you want another hunt for a serial killer, Fincher also directed Zodiac (2007) which is based on the real life Zodiac killings and stars Jake Gyllenhaal, Mark Ruffalo, and Robert Downey Jr.
I remember how excited I was after watching this movie at the theater that later went with my friends, took my dad, my mom and sister. It's still one of my favorites.
My dad went and saw this movie when it came out, he came home and got me right when I got out of school and said ,” son I’ve got a movie you need to see” we went straight to the movies and watched it such an amazing movie. And for those wondering I was in HS yes but, the sloth guy that woke up in the bed still makes me jump to this day
I've never seen this film either. Looking forward to watching it with you guys. Began watching your channel recently during Ahsoka. Branching out from Star Wars now. 😄😄😄
One of the few movies where the "villain" wins. John Doe, WON after Mills shot him. He completed his "Seven" and didn't have to go to prison for his crimes. If Mills had not shot Doe, but arrested him, Doe's confession would have put him in prison for life, or on death row, for multiple murders. He would not have completed his "Seven" and instead would have been thinking about things for years.
Temporary insanity, rage, disbelief, and the mass of adrenalin would drive virtually any man to do what Brad Pitt did at the end. There aren't too many people that have that kind of control over their emotions.
“But that's the point: we see a deadly sin on every street corner, in every home, and we tolerate it. We tolerate it because it's common, it's trivial.”
Saw this movie shortly after it was available on DVD, never once did I think Mills was going to kill himself after manifesting the sin of wrath, yet all reactors say nowadays, or insist rather, that Mills will kill himself after he shoots the killer............this says something interesting, and scary, about this generation how quick that "resolution" comes to mind. Go outside folks, breathe air and touch grass.
This reaction has had the most predictions I've seen for this film, I think: the photographer, the fingerprint removal, Brad Pitt and Wrath, Kevin Spacey (not well known at the time, iirc) Also, thinking through the last two in advance, bravo.
He wasn't clean in his escape when they caught him at the door because he was surprised by their unexpected presence. He needs time to plan things out.
IF YOURE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER MOVIE WITH THIS TYPE OF TONE, WITH SOME OF THE BEST ACTING YOULL EVER SEE IN A MOVIE….please watch Prisoners, my all time favorite movie. Absolutely mind bogglingly phenomenal!
I don't think John Doe needed Mills to kill himself in order to complete his plan. I think John Doe considered himself the winner because he was so self-righteous he recognized himself as a sinner and orchestrated a way to get himself killed for his sins: he was so absolute in his beliefs that all sinners should be punished that he didn't even exempt himself. In his eyes, Mills' "punishment" for being Wrath is the death of his wife and unborn child, who only came to this cursed city because of Mills.
Mills wasn't physically killed, but his life was utterly destroyed by his own wrath. Also, look at the parallel between what Somerset was saying about how apathy was what was wrong with the world - that people saw terrible things and didn't care - and then he heard John Doe saying exactly the same thing; but Somerset's solution was to retire and get away from the city, and Doe's solution was to use these murders to try to shock people out of their apathy. I could see the wheels turning in Somerset's eyes while he listened to Doe in the car, though, realizing, "This guy and I sound alike."
xxxxx Its public knowledge that Matt Reeve´s The batman was heavily inspired by Seven. What a great choice, fits the world of batman perfectly. xxxx Recomendations: Prisoners (2013) Zodiac (2007) Nightcrawler (2014)
The most twisted thing for me is that John Doe doesn't actually kill anyone. He drives each one to kill themselves or die as a result of their particular sin. Mills is pushed to become Wrath, the 7th "deadly" sin but doesn't die before the movie ends. However, John Doe had the assurance that Mills will eventually die one way or another as a murderer driven by vengeance. Mission accomplished.
I watched this movie in the cinemas with a group of friends. We literally sat there stone cold silent and didn’t move or speak for like 10 mins after it finished. We were proper shook lol. Fantastic experience!
This movie is pretty straight forward and is one of the few we're the killer gets away with his goal. You definitely over thought things. It's nice to just watch and not try and guess everything. The identity of the killer wasn't important as his plan was always to get caught.
This is probably my favorite reaction from this film as both of you were trying to sort out what was going on. I would suggest other David Fincher directed films like Prisoners, The Game, Zodiac, Gone Girl and The Girl with The Dragon Tattoo ( the American version). All are crime/suspense dramas with dark elements like Se7en.
I think it's a bit funny how people choose to divorce the killer from religion and call him crazy. Inquisitions, crusades, numerous biblical stories of killing brothers, cities, child sacrifice, etc - if you actually read and believe the Bible (or any other religious text, really), it seems reasonable to accept that a deity actually condones, if not encourages, doing exactly what the killer did.
When this movie came out, the big thing of it was that NOBODY knew who the killer was, nor who played as the killer. If you watch closely, they're not credited anywhere until the very end. Even on the DVD and all physical copies, their name has been removed for the sake of surprise and shock so you couldn't guess who it might be.
Lol! Mills doesn't have the attention span to read the necessary books - those black-striped, yellow books were "Cliff Notes," which are short test-prep synopses of classic books that were read in high schools at the time. A student could read the Cliff Notes to prep for a test withput having to actually read the book and hope that the test only covered the information in the Cliff Notes.
‼WATCH THE FULL-LENGTH UNCUT REACTION: www.patreon.com/posts/seven-1995-full-88214602
John Doe's goal was getting a instant ticket to Heaven through religion loophole since his life was taken by someone's hands out of Anger and Wrathful Vengeance.
2005’s “Zatoichi” is an award winning movie that most don’t know exists that fits into your movie request specifications.
1. Bone collector Denzel Washington
Angelina jolie.
2 Taking Lives Angelina jolie and Ethan hawk good Thriller movies .
8mm from 1999 from the same writer of Seven:
Nicolas Cage
Joaquin Phoenix
Maybe Nicolas Cage's best performance/film. Blood freezing 🥶 Thriller.
PS: they first ask Denzel Washington for Mills but Denzel say no "it's to demonic."
A Dinggleberry is some one that makes you smile by doing something foolish.
I think the most interesting thing about this film is that you don't even see a single murder on screen until the end, and the climactic ending involves a simple cardboard box that you never even see into. What makes it so disturbing is that it leaves everything to your imagination, and gets inside your head.
I agree with your point about leaving things to imagination gets inside your head more. The writer does that very well in this film. Another good example is the lust murder, all you get is a picture of the weapon and the incredible short performance of the male victim and it's super disturbing.
For me that's the 12th most interesting thing
😂😂😂
Why in the heck did you have to reveal the ending of the movie, and spoiled it for those who've haven't seen it?
That doesn't reveal the ending. 'A cardboard box' doesn't spoil any big reveals.
The "Jodie Foster told me to do it" reference was regarding the attempted murder of President Regan by John Hinckley Jr who had stalked and been obsessed with winning her favor/love after seeing her in Taxi Driver. He would call her, deliver letters to her - the experience was so traumatizing for her I believe she has only spoken about it in 2 interviews since the events as she hate to relive the experience.
I never even knew this. What a crazy story, sounds like something straight out of a Hollywood movie.
"A young actress gets pulled into a conspiracy involving the assassination of the President after a psychotic killer develops an obsession over her"
"Some guy shot a monster called Reagan so he could bone
A girl named Jodie Foster, if only he'd known..."
-Hilltop Hoods "Fifty in Five"
Check it out if you never heard it. Fifty years of history in five minutes of cultural references. Like Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire" or REM's "It's the End of the World As We Know It", for the subsequent generation. Just masterful compiling of the ills of society to reflect on.
That was definitely an MK Ultra thing
I remember when Morgan Freeman was once asked how he chooses roles. He simply said after reading the script if he doesn't understand it he probably shouldn't do it. I'm definitely glad he got it and was a part of this movie.
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote, 'The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part." Oof. What a great closing line! It summaries Detective Somerset's perspective so well.
I read this somewhere online so it might not be true, but the original ending was apparently.
If you kill him he will win.....Brad Pitt shoots the killer....cut to black after the final shot is fired with him standing over the body. Everyone gets a few seconds in the pitch black theater to mull on the bleakness and then the credits roll.
I like the ending as it is, but I think they missed out on an all time, holy shitballs ending to match the rest of that final scene, which is already a holy shitballs scene.
Anyone who has watched enough modern movies will have a good chance of guessing the twist at the end, but even then the impact of the actual twist is not dulled. It still hits as hard as ever. Seven is a true classic because its the movie all your favorite thrillers are inspired by.
Almost like heavy rain. Gameplay 😮
"WhAtS iN ThE bOoOoX!"
Contrary common sense, a good mystery/thriller doesn't completely fool you, it gives you clues, making you feel like your with the protagonist figuring it out with him. That way it feels satisfying when you say I knew that was going to happen. It plants the thought without directly telling you.
John Doe did indeed complete his plan. There were 7 deadly sins and 7 deaths. Tracy was the death for Envy and he himself was the death for Wrath.
This
The plan was to turn the sins against the sinners. It was never about death. Doe was the victim of his own envy and Mills the victim of his own wrath. At best, Mills' career was over. He didn't need to die to be a victim of his own wrath. Tracy committed none of the sins. She was murdered because Doe was really nothing more than a serial killer with delusions of grandeur, and Tracy was simply a tool. He was never the righteous man he claimed to be. He kept souvenirs like most serial killers. Gluttony didn't eat himself to death, Doe kicked him. Sloth was restrained for a year and wasn't even dead when they found him. The woman who took the pills could have called for help instead of committing suicide. His plan was flawed from the start if you think the outcome was simply about killing seven sinners. None of them needed to die for his plan to work, but their deaths were the sledgehammer that got everyone's attention.
I think people get wrapped up in his speech in the car. I know I did at the time. But the older and wiser I get, I see that Mills' assesment of Doe was at least as accurate as Somerset's. He may have been more than a movie of the week, but he never rose above a great movie villain.
Tracy didn't become Envy. She was collateral damage and the only actual person killed by John Doe. Mills became Wrath and will eventually die in his sin of vengeance one way or another, which THEN completes the plan.
@@Punko1969 John Doe killed Tracy out of envy of their life. He believes his other kills are justifiable divine intervention, but not that one. It was his own sin, for which he deserved to die. Like he said he's not perfect, he's never been exceptional. His point by getting himself killed in the end was that sin is everywhere in everyone including himself.
but Tracy didn't deserve to die
& John Doe SHOULD be envious of Somerset, not Mills,
because Mills is full of rage & guilty of the sin of wrath
33:02 - "Detetiiiiive!!" The delivery of that line, is truly Underrated! 💯
That scene in the car towards the end of the movie is just so good. It builds suspense, gives you a glimpse into every character, and emphasizes the conviction and hypocritical nature of John Doe.
Also I love the hilarious irony that you were saying "be wraith and shoot this fucker" and "I don't want him to win" before the reveal when that was exactly what he thought his win condition was.
Why did you think he wanted him kill himself 😂 The plan was for David to become wrath and kill the serial killer he was envy. The killer plan worked, he didn't care what happen to David after he was dead.
And that Mills would be charged for murder
@@TheJerbol Voluntary manslaughter (crime of passion). I doubt Mills faced any prison time, but he lost his career.
Not quite. JD didn't expect Mills to commit a suicide - that would be too easy on him. In fact during the ride he explained exactly what his goals were - and it's not deaths per se. Death was sometimes an inevitable outcome, sometimes a choice of a victim (f.e. pride). The main point, from the perspective of his 'religious' delusion, was to make a statement, a wake up call if you will, and from his own perspective, in his words: "I won't deny my own personal desire, to turn each sin against the sinner".
well nowadays he'd just be reassigned a county over @@BreakingBatman187
Yeah, a lot of people make the assumption that Jon Doe's intent was to commit seven murders because it starts out as the sort of movie where that's what would usually happen. In fact, we're meant to assume that's what kind of movie it is - a typical serial killer movie - and Fincher leads us merrily down that path for a while. But, like so many other tropes and expectations, Se7en ultimately subverts that assumption. I think, unfortunately, a lot of people never shift out of that first gear and spend WAY too long after the movie trying to figure out which are the seven murders, how they all tie in neatly to the theme, etc. Heck, I've even seen videos on YT trying to figure out which sin Tracy was "because she HAD TO be one bc she was one of the murders!" She wasn't one of the sins. She was simply a tool Doe used to get David to become Wrath and kill Envy. Period. She was a prop.
Doe never says that seven *murders* is his goal. As @marshad82 mentioned, he explains in the police car that his purpose is to create a statement that people can't ignore and which will shock the public into waking up to the decay of society around them. And, while he uses murder (or the choice to unalive oneself) as one tool to create that statement/shock, seven themed murders weren't necessary to finish the piece because it was never about murder specifically (or, really, even punishing the sinners). It was about how he anticipated the public would react to the shocking, grotesque events he was crafting.
For people who NEED it to be a little more symmetrical, though, it's worth noting that Mills lost the life he was living. He didn't physically die, sure, but he lost his wife (who, iirc, was also his high school sweetheart), his future baby, the life he was building with Tracy, probably his job/career. Yeah, he's breathing but his life, as he knew it, is violently and permanently over. In that way, Doe killed Mills before the box ever showed up. Mills just put the cherry on top by tanking his own career with a Wrathful shot to the head of an unarmed, handcuffed, kneeling suspect in custody.
Like the Pride victim, Mills was given a choice though. If he could've controlled his Wrath, he might've listened to Somerset, put his gun down, and denied Jon Doe the final W. But Doe counted on the sinner being unable to control his sin... and he was right.
THE GOOD NEWS? I think Mills was also right in the police car, about the public moving on from this story to the next big, titillating one pretty quickly and forgetting about Jon Doe. Doe's delusion was that the public would see what he did, snap out of their collective stupor, and follow his example. As we see in reality, especially now with our 24 hour news cycle, even the most horrific serial killers fade into the background relatively quickly, only to be remembered by edgy teens and middle-aged housewives who love "true crime" stuff. Doe's murders (and the way he went out) would make a huge splash in the news for a couple of cycles... and then some politician would get caught doing/saying something shady or some other horrific thing would happen elsewhere and the Jon Doe murders would scroll off the bottom of our day-to-day consciousness. Basically, Doe may have won the battle but I'm pretty certain he lost the war.
On the other hand, his goal was to shock people into waking up and, while Doe's actions may not have affected the public the way he anticipated, he accomplished the goal on a much smaller scale: Somerset, who had given up and was retiring and retreating from the world, was so shocked by Doe's "statement" that he realized he actually did think the world is "worth fighting for" and decided to stay working law enforcement.
16:28 the cast wasn’t told there was a live actor under all those prosthetics so their jump scare reaction was authentic 😂
Woah I didn’t know that!
Me either ^^^
David Fincher's classic possesses one of the most captivating screenplays I've ever witnessed, marked by an extremely dark, somber, violent, gruesome story that ends with one of the most emotionally shocking conclusions to a movie, ever.
The "Jodie Foster made me do it" sentence was referring to the Reagan assassination attempt where the assassin claimed that he did it to impress Jodi Foster.
Now he sings and plays guitar on RUclips.
It's extra f**ked up because it was due to her role in Taxi Driver in which she was a minor.
@@cm31572he was probably a victim of MK Ultra
Her: "This seems like it'll have a major plot twist."
Us: "😮😮😮😁🤣😂"
It feels like they don't make movies like this anymore. Glad you liked it. There is another movie with similar vibe The Bone Collector with Denzel Washington and Agelina Jolie.
Woah!!! You guys will love this I can't wait!!! Very dark but I expect you'll be thrilled. Lovely Friday surprise thanks guys.
At 17:40 . . . Right after the SLOTH guy , an advertisement for Febreze came on !!
Talk about Target Market Coverage !! 🤣😅😂😉
Wow did you two ever nail it through almost the entire film! My girlfriend and I watched this in the theatre in '95 and our jaws were hanging open through the whole film!
The Lust death is so revolting, it leaves it entirely up to your imagination, we don't even see the aftermath like we do with the other deaths, but it's by far the most shocking to me.
in case no one else has mentioned it ... I am so glad that you guys show your video with subtitles on.. it makes it so much easier to follow the conversation especially if the film volume and commentary levels are not in sync
Love how this movie twists the Buddy-cop genre.
The killer wins, 7 days from retirement and Sommerset's the one that makes it out okay, the chief isn't a yelling pain in the ass even though he's played by the drill instructor from Full Metal Jacket, and the one action scene was a chase done realistically for once right up until the bad guy gets the upper hand and just leaves.
It's like the opposite of Lethal weapon
Love the speculating! I could literally SEE the gears turning with both of you. 😂The way this unfolds is SO good. t's not easy for a movie to absolutely baffle you with each new revelation and still somehow keep you engaged and hungry for answers. Unpredictable is great, but not so much that you don't CARE about what's happening, and I think this movie got that exactly right where so many don't, and I love that. And then, to call it back with the whole apathy conversation? Amazingly clever script. Dark but great.
This is one of those stories where even though the villain was captured/killed he still won; The Dark Knight is another good example of that.
The Jodi Foster reference at 14:00-ish, is a reference to the 1981 attempted assassination of President Reagan. John Hinkley (who is now on what used to be Twitter, for some reason) believed that if he k*lled President Reagan, Jodie Foster would fall in love with him.
This movie is law enforcer's worst nightmare. Like, imagine criminals targeting your family just to taunt you.
Kevin Spacey is insanely creepy in this.. Probably his best performance of all time.
Probably because he's a real life creep.
@@mantism.d.8363 One role where he finally could drop his façade.
I don't know if you missed it but if you go to 51:47 in the edited reaction, and then go frame-by-frame through the next second while Mills is bending over saying "Oh god!", there's a two shot flash of his wife's face edited in. It's an intentional subliminal shot and most people miss it (it's a technique that's been used in other films, but not super common) because it's just a fraction of a second, but it's really bright and contrasts against the warmer tones of the shot of Mills and looks like a quick flash or blip when it goes by.
Fincher later used the same method in Fight Club, and that time instead of a flash in Brad Pitt's head it's a flash of Brad Pitt in someone else's head.
@@AGD_27also they splice in pictures of men's genitalia right before the credits just as the narrator says he and Tyler did in children's movies when they were projectionists 😂
Fun fact: The contract they signed for this movie said that the producers weren´t allowed to change the ending. Otherwise, they´ll have to use other actors instead of Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt if they wanted to change it. They really knew that the ending of the movie was special so they made sure to put in their contracts that they couldn´t change it.
They filmed several different endings but brad Pitt was the one most responsible for the ending we got. He said my character would shoot this man, I would shoot this man. He joined the project with the stipulation that the ending remain in tact. The collectors edition or box set or whatever with the extras on it has the alternate ending where somerset shoots doe because Mills is a younger man and he didn't want him to ruin his life.
@@fishblades Also, John Doe wouldn't have won if Somerset shot him instead since it wouldn't be done out of wrath but out of empathy for Mills as well as preventing evil from winning.
@@AdamtheGrey02 Same as if Mills had listened to Somerset and put his gun down instead of shooting Doe. Had Mills done that, Doe's coup de grace would've fizzled out, his big statement piece would be forever incomplete, and he would've lost. Like the Pride victim, Doe gave Mills the choice: Control your sin and you win/I lose. Indulge your sin and I win. Mills indulged.
@@johnplaysgames3120 Of course but the chances of that happening was zero to none lol. He was just too much of a hot head to simply not shoot a guy who just a few hours earlier, beheaded his wife.
@@AdamtheGrey02there is a storyboard on the DVD special features that shows one of the possible endings, which is Somerset shooting JD and saying "I'm retiring".
John Doe's total victory is thwarted not by Mills failing to commit suicide but by Somerset's decision to forgo retirement ("I'll be around"). They are dual protagonists to an extent, but this story really belongs to Somerset. We the audience are introduced to him before Mills. It's about his journey from the false self, where we find protagonists, to the true self where we leave them.
His false self is pessimistic, detached, apathetic, defeated, convinced that there is no more point in the battles. Mills chastises him for this worldview but despite being seasoned he is still young and naive compared to the jaded Somerset. Mills and Tracy, in their own way, challenge Somerset's trajectory and his false beliefs. A part of him is reinvigorated not by the murders but by these two new relationships.
Mills' worldview is shattered by Doe and his unraveling exposes him as a false protagonist. Somerset is too late to save Tracy, but he understands that the stakes are so much higher. He tries to save Mills, but he's already seen too many examples of the young man "feeding off of his emotions," as has Doe. Still, he doesn't admit defeat, not even after Mills empties his clip. He has fought the battle.
The characters are all, in a way, reflections of the film's controlling theme as summarized by the Hemingway quote. Despite being opposed as protagonist and antagonist, both Somerset and Doe believe at the film's beginning that the world is neither a fine place nor worth fighting for. Somerset's triumph over Doe and the completion of his Hero's Journey is that he's become (or returned to, rather) the true self at the end -- "I agree with the second part."
35:30 won't work: He tortured a person 1 year before he killed someone else. That requires planning and thus not insane
Disturbing is not a strong enough word to describe this movie. It was more disturbing than even Silence of the Lambs, and that is saying something.
I literally just watched a Silence of the Lambs reaction, and I agree, disturbing isn't the word for sure.
I'm shock that you can called out the reporter already. Good job.
This movie is so good, i would most likely put it on my top 10 list. Its so well made, so dark and horrific without even showing barely any violence.
The Jodie Foster line was a reference to (iirc) the guy who tried to assassinate Ronald Reagan. The guy had some psycho stalker crush on Jodie Foster, and did it in order to impress her. o.O
No he was an MK Ultra victim
There is this criminally underrated movie that you should definitely consider reacting to called The Hitcher (1986). It would be somewhat fitting with spooky season upon us
My coworker HATES Gwyneth Paltrow. So it's no coincidence two of her top 10 favorite movies are Se7en and Contagion. 😂
LMFAO, harsh
Let me guess, he hates her because of GOOP right? 😂
@@detectivemarkseven Seems to be a BIG part of it lol
Well she deserves it. She epitomizes greed irl
Sounds like your friend has a lot in common with Grace Randolph from 'Beyond the Trailer' and her wild hatred for Jessica Chastain😀😀😀...
"The world is good, and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part."
John Doe didn't want Mills to kill himself. He only wanted wanted Mills to shoot him, which would fulfill his plan and complete the seven deadly sins. There were so many different endings, one of which had Somerset shooting John Doe to save Mills.
In the end they decided to go with the worst possible outcome, which was the best possible ending.
*Spoilers*
The wife's death represented Envy, and his own was Wrath. Therefor he did achieve his goal. Seven Sins, Seven Victims.
Fantastic reaction as usual! I dont know what your schedule for reacting is, but really looking forward to the October lineup! Halloween season is upon us and as a huge fan of horror I really hope you guys are going to make a whole month out of it lol. Well maybe not the whole month, but there are a lot of great horror movies that came out this past year, as well as the older ones you guys havent seen yet. So, really really looking forward to that!
Kacee screaming when the killer shoots at the detectives at the apt was the best part of this reaction 😅!!!
I remember going to the movies to see this. Probably the original’react’ movie bc my friend saw it and HAD to take me to see it. It has been the ONLY movie that I’ve seen that when it was over with everyone just silently walked out as if we all couldn’t believe what we saw and how the bad guy won.
Arlington Road is definitely another one. Whole theater silent.
@@clevelandcbiomgeeee never heard anyone talk about that movie!
Damn you guys guessed two of the bigger twists in this movie. Good job 👍🏽 I always love how you guys discuss movies and try to theorize about the movie you are watching 😊
Love that organ grinder music at the credits. Also, not many movies have their credits scroll down.
My booth tech wouldn't shut up about it back then 😂
I love how you young folks go back and watch these films. These were epic years of movies.
Hi Anthony/Kacee, this is a sick and twisted movie, one of Brad Pitts and Morgan Freemans best in my opinion. The last few minutes of this movie is stressful as hell ! 😳
The Bone Collector with Denzel Washington and Angelina Jolie is another thriller/ mystery that you guys might enjoy. Its kind of similar to Seven and worth a watch. Thanks for the video.
There are a lot of 90s movies with twist/shocking ending. Sixth Sense, The Usual Suspect, and Seven as great examples.
As far as we know, this was the first movie to have such a heavily stylized opening credits montage.
I think this has been the single most amazing reaction to this movie 😮
Kudos to both of you 👏🏻
I enjoyed this immensely
Brad Pitt’s character was anxious for this case with arms wide open but Freeman’s just wanted to wash away those years.
Fincher and his crew did such an amazing job in creating a specific world. The impression of a hardcore inner-city hellscape like the worst parts of Detroit, and in a state of perpetual gloom. But it was shot in sunny L.A. The diner scene was shot on Hollywood Blvd. Their job of light control was amazing.
Primal Fear is another good psychological thriller type film.
Loved the reaction! Seven is one of my favorite thrillers.
If you want another twisty mind-bending David Fincher thriller, check out The Game (1997) with Michael Douglas. It's a psychological thriller rather than a mystery/detective thriller, but I think you'd enjoy it. If you want another hunt for a serial killer, Fincher also directed Zodiac (2007) which is based on the real life Zodiac killings and stars Jake Gyllenhaal, Mark Ruffalo, and Robert Downey Jr.
The Usual Suspects is a great flick.. Released the same year (1995) as Seven, and it also stars Spacey.
I remember how excited I was after watching this movie at the theater that later went with my friends, took my dad, my mom and sister. It's still one of my favorites.
My dad went and saw this movie when it came out, he came home and got me right when I got out of school and said ,” son I’ve got a movie you need to see” we went straight to the movies and watched it such an amazing movie. And for those wondering I was in HS yes but, the sloth guy that woke up in the bed still makes me jump to this day
I've never seen this film either. Looking forward to watching it with you guys. Began watching your channel recently during Ahsoka. Branching out from Star Wars now. 😄😄😄
Respect for that stab in the dark guess about the reporter!
Awesome reaction guys!! Seven is my fav David Fincher movie.
you two are so fun to watch. this did not disappoint. thank you!
One of the few movies where the "villain" wins. John Doe, WON after Mills shot him. He completed his "Seven" and didn't have to go to prison for his crimes. If Mills had not shot Doe, but arrested him, Doe's confession would have put him in prison for life, or on death row, for multiple murders. He would not have completed his "Seven" and instead would have been thinking about things for years.
2:10 What city is this?
The city is intentionally never named although there is a longstanding fan theory that it could be a pre-Batman Gotham.
John Doe did win in the end. Wrath didn’t have to die for his plan to succeed. But his life is over.
Is such a great movie and still holds up
Today 😊 saw this in the theatre not knowing what to expect I was blown away
"DetEEECCTTIIIIVVVEEE"
Temporary insanity, rage, disbelief, and the mass of adrenalin would drive virtually any man to do what Brad Pitt did at the end. There aren't too many people that have that kind of control over their emotions.
Yeah, I doubt any jury would ever convict someone in that position. Temporary insanity for sure.
“But that's the point: we see a deadly sin on every street corner, in every home, and we tolerate it. We tolerate it because it's common, it's trivial.”
Saw this movie shortly after it was available on DVD, never once did I think Mills was going to kill himself after manifesting the sin of wrath, yet all reactors say nowadays, or insist rather, that Mills will kill himself after he shoots the killer............this says something interesting, and scary, about this generation how quick that "resolution" comes to mind. Go outside folks, breathe air and touch grass.
request:
Prisoners (Hugh Jackman & Jack Gyllenhaal)
You guys called almost every twist in the movie, congrats.
i love when you guys theorizing that is whyyyy i love your reactionsss
This reaction has had the most predictions I've seen for this film, I think: the photographer, the fingerprint removal, Brad Pitt and Wrath, Kevin Spacey (not well known at the time, iirc) Also, thinking through the last two in advance, bravo.
I'm catching all the Seven reactions recently, I swear the reaction channels talk to eachother and sync the release of these videos up. :)
I’ve thought this same thing
He wasn't clean in his escape when they caught him at the door because he was surprised by their unexpected presence. He needs time to plan things out.
This movie is a masterpiece. Watch fight club next if you haven't already
IF YOURE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER MOVIE WITH THIS TYPE OF TONE, WITH SOME OF THE BEST ACTING YOULL EVER SEE IN A MOVIE….please watch Prisoners, my all time favorite movie. Absolutely mind bogglingly phenomenal!
Great choice!
He told pitt that he'd see the results, so he wasn't expected to die
I don't think John Doe needed Mills to kill himself in order to complete his plan. I think John Doe considered himself the winner because he was so self-righteous he recognized himself as a sinner and orchestrated a way to get himself killed for his sins: he was so absolute in his beliefs that all sinners should be punished that he didn't even exempt himself. In his eyes, Mills' "punishment" for being Wrath is the death of his wife and unborn child, who only came to this cursed city because of Mills.
I remember complete silence in the theater after this movie. Still chills after all these years.
Great movie, I haven’t seen it in years, but it’s fun to watch other people experience it for the first time. And you guys had great guesses!
Mills wasn't physically killed, but his life was utterly destroyed by his own wrath.
Also, look at the parallel between what Somerset was saying about how apathy was what was wrong with the world - that people saw terrible things and didn't care - and then he heard John Doe saying exactly the same thing; but Somerset's solution was to retire and get away from the city, and Doe's solution was to use these murders to try to shock people out of their apathy. I could see the wheels turning in Somerset's eyes while he listened to Doe in the car, though, realizing, "This guy and I sound alike."
Fun fact: they did make a prop head for the film, but it wasn't used.
It was used later in the film "Contagion."
Casey: This feels like a movie that would have like a major plot twist potentially, but maybe also not.
My face: 😅
Listening to the right guesses made me all giddy. Good work, detectives.
One of my favorite all time movies~ Glad you guys could react to this one.
xxxxx Its public knowledge that Matt Reeve´s The batman was heavily inspired by Seven. What a great choice, fits the world of batman perfectly. xxxx
Recomendations:
Prisoners (2013)
Zodiac (2007)
Nightcrawler (2014)
Dude you are right on so many things! Amazing.
The most twisted thing for me is that John Doe doesn't actually kill anyone. He drives each one to kill themselves or die as a result of their particular sin. Mills is pushed to become Wrath, the 7th "deadly" sin but doesn't die before the movie ends. However, John Doe had the assurance that Mills will eventually die one way or another as a murderer driven by vengeance. Mission accomplished.
Him killing Tracy was envy. Brad killing Kevin was wrath
She figures it out?!?!? Amazing. Gr8 movie and awesome reaction yll
I watched this movie in the cinemas with a group of friends. We literally sat there stone cold silent and didn’t move or speak for like 10 mins after it finished. We were proper shook lol. Fantastic experience!
Great to see you guys reacted to this movie,best phsycological thriller ever made imo and a David fincher masterpiece :)
I read somewhere that Denzel Washington was offered Morgan's role but turned it down. I honestly can't picture Denzel in the role
This movie is pretty straight forward and is one of the few we're the killer gets away with his goal. You definitely over thought things. It's nice to just watch and not try and guess everything. The identity of the killer wasn't important as his plan was always to get caught.
This is probably my favorite reaction from this film as both of you were trying to sort out what was going on. I would suggest other David Fincher directed films like Prisoners, The Game, Zodiac, Gone Girl and The Girl with The Dragon Tattoo ( the American version). All are crime/suspense dramas with dark elements like Se7en.
Prisoners is directed by Denis Villeneuve.
@@jmiyagi12345 You're right. Thanks.
@@robincraft4682To be fair, Denis Villeneuve was clearly channelling his inner David Fincher with that movie.
Your theories discussion at the end during the car ride had me shaking my head thinking "...its so much worse."
Not telling your husband you had a abortion, is the biggest violation of trust anyone can commit.
I think it's a bit funny how people choose to divorce the killer from religion and call him crazy. Inquisitions, crusades, numerous biblical stories of killing brothers, cities, child sacrifice, etc - if you actually read and believe the Bible (or any other religious text, really), it seems reasonable to accept that a deity actually condones, if not encourages, doing exactly what the killer did.
When this movie came out, the big thing of it was that NOBODY knew who the killer was, nor who played as the killer. If you watch closely, they're not credited anywhere until the very end. Even on the DVD and all physical copies, their name has been removed for the sake of surprise and shock so you couldn't guess who it might be.
Lol! Mills doesn't have the attention span to read the necessary books - those black-striped, yellow books were "Cliff Notes," which are short test-prep synopses of classic books that were read in high schools at the time. A student could read the Cliff Notes to prep for a test withput having to actually read the book and hope that the test only covered the information in the Cliff Notes.