If a monster equips a card to itself that is not an equip spell, and that monster is negated, the equip card will fall off, because the effect of that monster is equipping it. -Infernoble Duelist
Super helpful video! I took the power spell version to my locals this past weekend and went undefeated! Thank you for the helpful combo and analysis videos you've been doing on the deck lately!
chaotic allure queens effect is to equip a monster as an equip spell even if it doesn't have an effect, this is not possible when it is negated even if the card equipped by it's effect has an effect while equipped. it is like borreload savage dragon's effect to equip a link, the equipped card is treated as an equip spell under the condition that it is equipped to borreload and if borreload's effect is negated then it is treated as a monster card and sent to the grave. if destruction sword had activated an effect to equip itself from hand to a monster then it would remain equipped after dark ruler resolves
For a proper explanation, lingering effects applying only to the same card stop applying when it's negated, while lingering effects applying to groups of cards, even including itself (like Dogmatica Fleurdelis) or any OTHER card (Eldlich the Golden Lord) keep applying because said effect is not tied to the card itself
small correction on Caesar at minute 13 - he can indeed negate in Damage Step because he negates the activation so even if the Tenpai player would go battle phase and then effect Chundra you could negate the special summon from the deck :)
For the Chaos Allure Queen, would it be OK to just run one in the side deck for going first since we can search it? Alongside the other necessary cards of course
That guy definitely did not expect you to play sol so he didnt negate debtors. Happy you came to the 1 deception conclusion. I like the scourge indea. the allure queen is cool but at the end of the day seems a bit win more. Could easily make a big board of negates via azamina WF and I am a fan of the dragoon package.
1 deception is all you need, you can open Astellar + Toybox and go full combo that pivots into Deception (using Muddy Mud Dragon and Albion) and then pivots again into Fiendsmith using the 2 left over bodies. All while being nib proof (Making the Gen Ex synchro on summon 5.) This deck is honestly nuts.
It's not a cost to remove it from the field so you need to already have Shrimp summoned and chain immediately to Skill Drain's activation. You can go Woes and Synchro summon using Shrimp in order to dodge drain but the options are limited because it's a tuner (shrimp + elzette + astellar works)
shrimp s/t pop is an on summon trigger, meaning there is no scenario where you can apply shrimp's pop and resolve it to the activation of drain cl1 activate drain, cl2 diabell to summon shrimp. resolve, new chain, shrimp cl1 to pop. shrimp fizzles as drain is in effect and then if you tried to do it while drain was set, opp would just chain drain to diabell summon eff so no not possible to dodge. as babrad said, shrimp doesnt move itself off field or synchro for cost, so it will always attempt to synchro on field and be negated under drain
@@BimYGO the only scenario is cl2 diabell, cl3 drain, cl4 dodge with a lvl4. Then in the next chain, CL1 Shrimp to pop with Elzette or Astellar on the field (or a lvl4 non tuner like Toys), CL2+ Woes for another lvl2 to go into a synchro 6 (or 8 with 1 toy) WF so that on resolution Shrimp isn't on the field.
14:39, you should special rucia, send astellar for witch, witch add and get into azamina, then rucia could send draw 1 the tales or the murcielago add.
@6:22 Silvia negates the EFFECT similarly to Regulus so it won't work against Drain. Negating the ACTIVATION would have sent Drain to the GY. You were remembering the interaction correctly but i just want to clear this out
18:58 Caesar can negate Rage's effect to link summon if you hadn't negated the Yubel on the field. The reason Talent and other stealing effects were so powerful during AgOv forcing Unchained to end on Caesar pass with Sharvara in hand was due to Caesar singlehandedly checking all other interruptions when stolen
23:17 if you remember Savage also lost its equip when negated. Dragoon also lost the ATK boost. However Fleurdelis doesn't. The reason is when a monster applies a lingering effect to itself and it gets negated said effect will stop applying. You can also verify this with Genroku in Tenpai losing the level (but changing to Tuner works differently so it doesn't lose that). A huge issue is Eldlich the Golden Lord confusing people, because it keeps the effect under Skill Drain, but if you notice its wording, Eldlich summons ANY Zombie from hand and not specifically itself. So TLDR; lingering effects applying only on the card itself stop applying if the card is later negated, don't stop applying if they affected multiple cards (including itself) or a different card altogether . Hope this helps
solid comments as always! one correction: skill drain does not go to grave if the activation was negated because it doesnt have any activation effect, activating the card is just flippingit face up and after it has activated the continuous effect applies
@@BimYGO you need to check on your rulings. Activation is the action placing it onto the field, so if it's negated then it never activated. How can you keep a card to the field when it NEVER happened? I'm 110% sure about this (as a judge since 2013). The Azamina card negates the effect (like Regulus) making it useless against Drain. Varudras would negate it and send it to gy without needing the 2nd material. You can check it on any simulator if the ruling isn't enough
For the Chaos Allure Queen, would it be OK to just run one in the side deck for going first since we can search it? Alongside the other necessary cards of course. Also keep up the great Contant man I’ve recommended you to multiple people now
since i knew he was on breakers by game 2, i wanted to keep as many of my cards as possible for the crackback. ofc its a debatable decision because you could easily argue that tenpai only has one push normally and i should try to maximize my chance of living one turn as much as possible
i think woes is generically more reliable because it has no condition aside from a target in deck - so you can even woes if you cant synchro and for example at least get a search off of silvy. unleashed requires that you are already playing the game. if the effect banished or shuffled instead it would be too powerful to not play. i think you could argue it is a sidegrade and whether it is actually better than woes or not will imo depend entirely on how good silvera (technically you can also summon diabell and rciela but its usually silvera) is against your matchup. for example, silvera has very poor coverage against fusion decks because fusion materials can be face down, and unleashed would have poor coverage against kashtira type monsters perhaps you could main one and side the other for going first. ill cover it in a future video
05:18 imo the more optimal play would be to hold Astellar's effect after you added Woes with Rciela, because then you bring Astellar back, activate her effect and send Woes instead of Wanted. To me, the play would make more sense if you wanted to use Wanted's GY effect to draw by shuffling back Deception, but I would rather have Deception set itself again instead of the draw as well. So by holding Astellar, you have one more card on field. If you had something different in mind though, that's fine as well. What's your opinion on Desirae? You would lose one main deck slot to run Lacrima but gain one extra deck slot because you replace Caesar and lose Necroquip Princess. Do you think that trade off is worth it?
While I don't mind Desirae, since it helps protecting your lock against one more breaker, do you really gain an extra deck slot? Ceasar and Necro out, Sequence and Desirae in?
@@babrad I think in that case, I'd rather have Caesar because it's 2 interactions. The cool thing about Desirae is, that it is also 2 interactions as well as being fully recyclable, so you can do the whole thing again. As far as I know, Caesar is gone once it has shot its load (it is a strong load though), since it's not a light fiend
i think that wave king is generically a more broken card in current yugioh than desirae is, and playing around drnm with desirae with our deck (which typically would be via woes) is extremely resource inefficient and wastes multiple interactions. id rather let drnm/droplet resolve in most cases and then play off nib/veiler searched and woes set. lacrima in a wf version with many normal summons i dont like because it adds another normal summon a niche thing in the chaos allure queen version is that you can reliably get the necro draw by pitching a monster off allure queen
it only protects illusion and spellcaster synchro monsters, but the important card was wave king. so rather than potentially play into talents i let the board go knowing i had hand and trap interactions
Something that people are doing thats I believe is incorrect is that a lot of people aren't playing Forbidden Droplet. Because of the way this deck is designed you do still have to be careful with how they use Droplet but with how you can recycle your spells and/or trigger Toy Soldier and/or Tank I think that Droplet is free enough that as a strong omni card that can take away interaction from your opponent and a discard target for your I strongly disagree from a competitive stand point that Forbidden Droplet shouldn't be played in the strongest Forbidden Droplet deck we've probably ever had.
the math on drawing both droplet and soldier going 2nd is 13.9%. if you want to include box in the math and make the assumption that your opponent, with a full board, will allow you to resolve droplet, the math is 23.5% to open both droplet and box/soldier in less than a quarter of your games will you draw both droplet and a toy card. while the interaction can be useful, you cannot argue for droplet on this basis. instead, you need to have many other cards that are chainable - like WANTED, or you need to also have normal spells that can be chained to, like the power spells. only when all of these conditions are met can droplet reliably be used without destroying your own hand keep in mind WF is a multi card combo deck and needs 2 cards at a bare minimum with ZERO opponent interaction to do anything at all. under no circumstances is WF the best droplet deck. if built carefully on the assumption that droplet is needed in the current meta, it can be tolerated
i like the buster lock but 1500 atk and def seems a bit easy to get over. im not too knowlegeable about the cards in the meta but think it would pretty easy to run over. and play in mp2
in that example, the worst case scenario is that they fail to clear your board because they use battle on buster lock. more realistically, they will fail to attack either because of box or because of woes-silvera. i think the main weakness of the lock is something like a held imperm for the allure queen - which will force you to choose between: let imperm resolve and buster falls off, scourge the imperm and accept that they may have another breaker, dawn dragster the imperm, woes-silvera the battling monster, box destroy battling monster. you have many options to protect it. if you have achieved buster lock, chances are your opponent is on breakers and you are establishing full board against breakers. in that case, there is very little you can do against double drnm or drnm droplet etc - so you have to pay attention to establishing your resource game for the crackback
Incredibly mid gameplay why bother showcasing such bad games. Just to show what the deck can do? Can’t you just do combo videos and test hand type combos and get the same effect
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If a monster equips a card to itself that is not an equip spell, and that monster is negated, the equip card will fall off, because the effect of that monster is equipping it.
-Infernoble Duelist
16:52 "maybe he was thinking... No wait, he was definitely not thinking" classic
Super helpful video! I took the power spell version to my locals this past weekend and went undefeated! Thank you for the helpful combo and analysis videos you've been doing on the deck lately!
Keep up the WF grind man, you gained my sub
recenlty stubbled across you and man, lovin the white forest content, very keen to see future wf azamina vids
chaotic allure queens effect is to equip a monster as an equip spell even if it doesn't have an effect, this is not possible when it is negated even if the card equipped by it's effect has an effect while equipped. it is like borreload savage dragon's effect to equip a link, the equipped card is treated as an equip spell under the condition that it is equipped to borreload and if borreload's effect is negated then it is treated as a monster card and sent to the grave. if destruction sword had activated an effect to equip itself from hand to a monster then it would remain equipped after dark ruler resolves
For a proper explanation, lingering effects applying only to the same card stop applying when it's negated, while lingering effects applying to groups of cards, even including itself (like Dogmatica Fleurdelis) or any OTHER card (Eldlich the Golden Lord) keep applying because said effect is not tied to the card itself
Good video, thanks for the hard work 👍
small correction on Caesar at minute 13 - he can indeed negate in Damage Step because he negates the activation so even if the Tenpai player would go battle phase and then effect Chundra you could negate the special summon from the deck :)
For the Chaos Allure Queen, would it be OK to just run one in the side deck for going first since we can search it? Alongside the other necessary cards of course
That guy definitely did not expect you to play sol so he didnt negate debtors. Happy you came to the 1 deception conclusion. I like the scourge indea. the allure queen is cool but at the end of the day seems a bit win more. Could easily make a big board of negates via azamina WF and I am a fan of the dragoon package.
1 deception is all you need, you can open Astellar + Toybox and go full combo that pivots into Deception (using Muddy Mud Dragon and Albion) and then pivots again into Fiendsmith using the 2 left over bodies. All while being nib proof (Making the Gen Ex synchro on summon 5.) This deck is honestly nuts.
During my own testing I’ve had the same thing happen of not using the extra monster zone when using Chaos Allure Queen
have you tried 2 original 1 poplar as an engine for the deck?
i find it pretty decent except when you open poplar
also needs the new azamina elzette
no i wouldnt mix that
Zapper Shrimp can get rid of skill Drain by Synchroing after he triggers.. He can dodge the Skill Drain can't he?
It's not a cost to remove it from the field so you need to already have Shrimp summoned and chain immediately to Skill Drain's activation. You can go Woes and Synchro summon using Shrimp in order to dodge drain but the options are limited because it's a tuner (shrimp + elzette + astellar works)
shrimp s/t pop is an on summon trigger, meaning there is no scenario where you can apply shrimp's pop and resolve it to the activation of drain
cl1 activate drain, cl2 diabell to summon shrimp. resolve, new chain, shrimp cl1 to pop. shrimp fizzles as drain is in effect
and then if you tried to do it while drain was set, opp would just chain drain to diabell summon eff
so no not possible to dodge. as babrad said, shrimp doesnt move itself off field or synchro for cost, so it will always attempt to synchro on field and be negated under drain
@@BimYGO the only scenario is cl2 diabell, cl3 drain, cl4 dodge with a lvl4. Then in the next chain, CL1 Shrimp to pop with Elzette or Astellar on the field (or a lvl4 non tuner like Toys), CL2+ Woes for another lvl2 to go into a synchro 6 (or 8 with 1 toy) WF so that on resolution Shrimp isn't on the field.
14:39, you should special rucia, send astellar for witch, witch add and get into azamina, then rucia could send draw 1 the tales or the murcielago add.
Any thoughts on the most recently revealed support? I was thinking on running the second version you mentioned with deception at 1 and no fiendsmith
i think the new support is either entirely useless or you play one trap in main or side
Banger
@6:22 Silvia negates the EFFECT similarly to Regulus so it won't work against Drain. Negating the ACTIVATION would have sent Drain to the GY. You were remembering the interaction correctly but i just want to clear this out
13:00 Caesar doesn't care about the damage step, it negates activations so you can use it at ANY time.
18:58 Caesar can negate Rage's effect to link summon if you hadn't negated the Yubel on the field. The reason Talent and other stealing effects were so powerful during AgOv forcing Unchained to end on Caesar pass with Sharvara in hand was due to Caesar singlehandedly checking all other interruptions when stolen
23:17 if you remember Savage also lost its equip when negated. Dragoon also lost the ATK boost. However Fleurdelis doesn't.
The reason is when a monster applies a lingering effect to itself and it gets negated said effect will stop applying. You can also verify this with Genroku in Tenpai losing the level (but changing to Tuner works differently so it doesn't lose that).
A huge issue is Eldlich the Golden Lord confusing people, because it keeps the effect under Skill Drain, but if you notice its wording, Eldlich summons ANY Zombie from hand and not specifically itself.
So TLDR; lingering effects applying only on the card itself stop applying if the card is later negated, don't stop applying if they affected multiple cards (including itself) or a different card altogether .
Hope this helps
solid comments as always! one correction: skill drain does not go to grave if the activation was negated because it doesnt have any activation effect, activating the card is just flippingit face up and after it has activated the continuous effect applies
@@BimYGO you need to check on your rulings. Activation is the action placing it onto the field, so if it's negated then it never activated. How can you keep a card to the field when it NEVER happened?
I'm 110% sure about this (as a judge since 2013). The Azamina card negates the effect (like Regulus) making it useless against Drain. Varudras would negate it and send it to gy without needing the 2nd material.
You can check it on any simulator if the ruling isn't enough
For the Chaos Allure Queen, would it be OK to just run one in the side deck for going first since we can search it? Alongside the other necessary cards of course.
Also keep up the great Contant man I’ve recommended you to multiple people now
yes!
In game two against Tenpai, why not set debtors as an extra attack block with toy box if you go through scourge?
since i knew he was on breakers by game 2, i wanted to keep as many of my cards as possible for the crackback. ofc its a debatable decision because you could easily argue that tenpai only has one push normally and i should try to maximize my chance of living one turn as much as possible
Gonna make another video about the additional new cards we got?
its not very good so im not sure. if i can make something interesting worth testing i will
Can we not afford to play Fuwa due to deck count or is there another reason why it’s not included in Main/Side?
it is maindeck worthy, i am not playing it online because im not playing it irl. ill mention that next video
What do you think of new trap card azamina unleashed instead of woes
i think woes is generically more reliable because it has no condition aside from a target in deck - so you can even woes if you cant synchro and for example at least get a search off of silvy. unleashed requires that you are already playing the game. if the effect banished or shuffled instead it would be too powerful to not play. i think you could argue it is a sidegrade and whether it is actually better than woes or not will imo depend entirely on how good silvera (technically you can also summon diabell and rciela but its usually silvera) is against your matchup. for example, silvera has very poor coverage against fusion decks because fusion materials can be face down, and unleashed would have poor coverage against kashtira type monsters
perhaps you could main one and side the other for going first. ill cover it in a future video
What would you suggest for a variant without Wanted?
then dont pplay azamina probably
05:18 imo the more optimal play would be to hold Astellar's effect after you added Woes with Rciela, because then you bring Astellar back, activate her effect and send Woes instead of Wanted. To me, the play would make more sense if you wanted to use Wanted's GY effect to draw by shuffling back Deception, but I would rather have Deception set itself again instead of the draw as well. So by holding Astellar, you have one more card on field. If you had something different in mind though, that's fine as well.
What's your opinion on Desirae? You would lose one main deck slot to run Lacrima but gain one extra deck slot because you replace Caesar and lose Necroquip Princess. Do you think that trade off is worth it?
While I don't mind Desirae, since it helps protecting your lock against one more breaker, do you really gain an extra deck slot? Ceasar and Necro out, Sequence and Desirae in?
@@simonvietjohansson8069 You are right, I forgot about Sequence, my bad!
@@Pallabon1you can make Lars instead as a one time Desirae replacing only Caesar
@@babrad I think in that case, I'd rather have Caesar because it's 2 interactions. The cool thing about Desirae is, that it is also 2 interactions as well as being fully recyclable, so you can do the whole thing again. As far as I know, Caesar is gone once it has shot its load (it is a strong load though), since it's not a light fiend
i think that wave king is generically a more broken card in current yugioh than desirae is, and playing around drnm with desirae with our deck (which typically would be via woes) is extremely resource inefficient and wastes multiple interactions. id rather let drnm/droplet resolve in most cases and then play off nib/veiler searched and woes set. lacrima in a wf version with many normal summons i dont like because it adds another normal summon
a niche thing in the chaos allure queen version is that you can reliably get the necro draw by pitching a monster off allure queen
will you cover the new azamina support ?
its not good so maybe
question?? the diabel synchro if he raigeki couldn't you chain and put the other synchro that protects them from destructions???
it only protects illusion and spellcaster synchro monsters, but the important card was wave king. so rather than potentially play into talents i let the board go knowing i had hand and trap interactions
@@BimYGO thanks! next question can woes just special your white forest do you have to synchro?
@@superidol8463 you do not have to synchro
@BimYGO i really don't like take you think I can play with out it?
@@superidol8463 not sure what youre asking
Something that people are doing thats I believe is incorrect is that a lot of people aren't playing Forbidden Droplet. Because of the way this deck is designed you do still have to be careful with how they use Droplet but with how you can recycle your spells and/or trigger Toy Soldier and/or Tank I think that Droplet is free enough that as a strong omni card that can take away interaction from your opponent and a discard target for your I strongly disagree from a competitive stand point that Forbidden Droplet shouldn't be played in the strongest Forbidden Droplet deck we've probably ever had.
the math on drawing both droplet and soldier going 2nd is 13.9%.
if you want to include box in the math and make the assumption that your opponent, with a full board, will allow you to resolve droplet, the math is 23.5% to open both droplet and box/soldier
in less than a quarter of your games will you draw both droplet and a toy card.
while the interaction can be useful, you cannot argue for droplet on this basis. instead, you need to have many other cards that are chainable - like WANTED, or you need to also have normal spells that can be chained to, like the power spells. only when all of these conditions are met can droplet reliably be used without destroying your own hand
keep in mind WF is a multi card combo deck and needs 2 cards at a bare minimum with ZERO opponent interaction to do anything at all. under no circumstances is WF the best droplet deck. if built carefully on the assumption that droplet is needed in the current meta, it can be tolerated
i like the buster lock but 1500 atk and def seems a bit easy to get over. im not too knowlegeable about the cards in the meta but think it would pretty easy to run over. and play in mp2
I think forcing your opponent to forgo their battle phase is still pretty good though
If you have toy box up it's not super simple, plus you can just do things in battle phase to protect your allure queen and not turn on talents
in that example, the worst case scenario is that they fail to clear your board because they use battle on buster lock. more realistically, they will fail to attack either because of box or because of woes-silvera. i think the main weakness of the lock is something like a held imperm for the allure queen - which will force you to choose between: let imperm resolve and buster falls off, scourge the imperm and accept that they may have another breaker, dawn dragster the imperm, woes-silvera the battling monster, box destroy battling monster.
you have many options to protect it. if you have achieved buster lock, chances are your opponent is on breakers and you are establishing full board against breakers. in that case, there is very little you can do against double drnm or drnm droplet etc - so you have to pay attention to establishing your resource game for the crackback
Make Runick WF Azamina
When the new azamina card?
they are not good but soon
@@BimYGO noooo
White forest best deck
Incredibly mid gameplay why bother showcasing such bad games. Just to show what the deck can do? Can’t you just do combo videos and test hand type combos and get the same effect