North Yorkshire council must be getting sick of me flooding them with pot hole reports. Don't care what the size, if it's big enough to see, then I report it. Everyone should take a little time to do this instead of moaning. Chap at work fractured his cast ally rim, when I asked if he'd reported the hole...nope.
@chrispomphrett4283 it doesn't get a job number if it doesn't count. Some months after it's been given a number, it might get repaired. I hit a pothole in July that had a ramp patched into it. I had oncoming headlights and didn't see it in time. It had a 5" vertical edge. I hit it at 40 mph and damaged my lower back. There will be more deaths and personal injuries,it's inevitable.
What seems sensible on the initial consideration is entirely stupid in reality. Do you REALLY want to live your life looking at excel sheets to determine how much tax you'll pay on everything? Eventually you'll pay personal income tax depending on how many lbs you weigh, because they'll say it correlates to health-care cost or some such nonsense. Don't get sucked in!
Lorries have paid VED related to axle weight to compensate for road damage for decades. The govt don't have to invent the wheel, just broaden out the categories.
I've never known a government ever support motorcycling. They all say good things before they're elected, then renague on any useful promises. Though this Labour lot are the worst I have experienced. Vote Reform going forwards.
I have 3 bikes that I do a combined mileage of about 5000 a year on. However, without doing the SORN dance, I'm expected to pay over £360 a year for that privilege.
It’s unfortunate that successive governments have had no interest in promoting motorcycles. The scale of VED rates for bikes is obviously ridiculous…….except to the government. When have common sense and government ever been bedmates?
Flip guys, here in New Zealand the government is putting our yearly registration for a 1 litre bike up to around 300 pounds and it's going to increase each year for the next few years. Governments don't want cheap, easy to park motorbikes. They want to get ICE vehicles off the road and our bikes are an obvious annoyance to this ideological position.
@@Liam1304 I'm in the UK,costs me $180 bucks tax for my speed twin,I have 3 bikes in NZ ,I only use them for the one month of the year when I'm there and it still costs me more there,the NZ gov hate motorcycles.they are seeyouentes
If the Government were serious they would promote small capacity motorcycles (such as the Honda 125, Enfield 350’s etc) that do 100mpg, are physically small, practical, last forever, can be run on a shoestring. Genuine motoring for the masses.
We motorcyclists pay the most and in return get the worst deal, the centre of the road is never cleared of grit and mud (I live in a rural area) and shiney ironwork is nearly always in the centre of the road especially on a bend.
The road tax on motorcycles is extortionate considering the 3rd world dirt tracks the government call roads 🤬 % support for MAG and British bikers 👍💪🏍⛽🇬🇧
my yaris hybrid only does 60mpg and currently pays no tax, i just sold a CB500X WHhich did 94mpg but paid £71 , my new MT07 does 67mpg and currently pays £117 , none of these costs in any way reflects there Co2 emissions
Your argument is totally logical, and the reason I pay a paltry sum to be a MAG member. If we don't argue for our rights, no one else will. United we stand... Join MAG if you want to keep your right to ride, free and fair.
It's all about the income from tax for the government and that's about it. If you're looking for joined up thinking you really ought to know by now that no government does that.
Toyota Aygo less than half the cost VED and insurance yet double the wheels, a lot more weight and pollution compared with my 200cc scooter! Make it make sense
I'm sure we have an associated membership of MAG through our membership of the VJMC. I'd really like to read the magazine. I'm sure I remember a study many years ago imagining if the VED applied to vehicles were to be based on the damage to roads and emissions. As I recall the study concluded that the disproportionate damage and pollution caused by trucks compared with other vehicles would mean that all other categories would pay a fraction of what we actually do. Governments of all flavours and brands have always hated motorcycles for nothing more than ideological reasons. As always, good work MAG.
The early 80's saw massive strides forward in motorcycle design and performance. You can ride a tax and mot exempt bike now (40 years old) that is relatively "modern". You don't have to ride some old lamp post counter to take advantage of those financial benefits these days. Admitedly i am getting on in my years so i no longer hunger for the latest and greatest which is just aswell as i think new bike designs are heading in a too high tech direction so one of these 80's bikes restored is far more appealing to me at a fraction of the cost to run.
@@John-cz2pe Yep. Five out of my six bikes are VED exempt (they vary from 1979 to 1983). The other one - a Royal Enfield 500 Bullet at Euro 4 standards, so very low emissions - is now £87pa compared to the £52 pa (I think) when I bought it new four years ago. That's more than my wife pays for the Clio sitting in the drive.
Yup. My VF1000 is 1985 vintage. My GSX1100EF is also 1985 vintage. They're both quite capable machines, and, to my mind at least, much more usable than a 30k Ducati that you daren't ride or park anywhere.
In the dim and distant past it was decided the easiest way to do the VED was on CC. Since then motorcycles have got larger and it's hard to think that back in 1970 up till then most bikes were app 650/750 and the Honda 750 four had just been introduced. Again standards changed and emissions came into it but because of the 2 strokes bikes carried on in the same format. I'm sure the manufacturers will have the emission figures for all their models and a system based on that could be introduced. One caveat is that in the UK we are not subject to emission checks so that might open a can of worms at MOT time. I don't think it's a deliberate strategy to get bikes off the road they just never consider bikes when they plan this stuff. If wear and tear on the roads was the deciding factor all bikes should be free lol
People who want to drive a car should have to ride motorcycles first for at least a year, maybe then they would respect the vulnerability and appreciate them more, just a thought, I may be wrong,
The trouble is we’re dealing with mindless bureaucrats and governments who largely don’t give a split second’s thought to the both the safety and cost of motorcycling. When was the last big protest march?
The main reason for the inconsistencies in the VED rates for cars is that different rules were in place at the time of first registration, and those rules have continued to apply, despite changes for later vehicles. This is fairer to people who chose a model of car because of favourable rates at the time, than moving the goalposts later. I chose my car 8 years ago because of £0 VED (less than 100 gm/km CO2), but they have now decided to start charging £20 from next year. I'm fortunate with my bikes, they are both Historic, and still have £0 VED (so far). It still doesn't make sense to have bikes paying more than cars, though.
@@DaveHines1 Actually no. Road damage is roughly as the fourth power of axle loading. Cars have hardly any effect. Artics and 18 tonners do the most damage and they would be heavily taxed. The difference between, say, a BMW electric 5 series (2.2t) and the highest spect straight petrol version (1.8t) is insignificant in road wear terms, and they are the same size.
@@EbenBransome not sure wether that’s directed at me or @noobiker , but if that is the case why is the road up to a bridge near me with a 3 tonne weight limit , the worst road for miles when it comes to pot holes , believe me there are enough bad roads here , but the one in question stands out above the rest
@@EbenBransome Eh, nothing to do with the weak bridge , all that means is that there shouldn’t be any heavy vehicles going on that road but the road still gets trashed , that was my point
It is Totally unfair !...Ridiculous when you consider some cars are free or £30 doing far more damage to the roads .My Triumph street tripple 765 is around £110+ and only covers a few thousand miles per year .
The only 2 things that make sense to me to do with pricing etc for road motorbikes in London, free congestion charge and bus lane usage on red routes. Everything is aimed to get rid of them it seems. I'll be joining mag next month.
Logical and fair combined with government decisions shouldn't be used together. The other piece is you can never convince politicians who dislike you and think your vile to be fair and logical. Money would be better spent voting them out.
Just happened upon your channel. I didn't realize Motorcycle Action Group was still operating. I recall taking part in one of your M.A.G runs in the early 80's A couple of bands and a party followed in Cornwall. It was brilliant and remains in the forefront of my memory. I've taken up two wheel riding again in the last two years. Had to renew my V.E.D Today, and I believe the cost had increased. Like everything else within this age we share, we receive little in return for the multitude of stealth taxation. Precious little on road quality or anything else. Thanks for sharing
VED, you can pay in lump sum or by direct debit. If you pay by direct debit, what's to stop you making SORN over the months you don't use the bike. For some this will work out cheaper than paying for 6 months.
I refuse to pay by direct debit because it costs more. I have 4 bikes, one, which is taxed during the winter, so it's available for use as required. The others I tax only during spring and summer. Sorn at the end of the month and you get a refund for each full month. I'm not paying more to pay by direct debit,they can swivel 😊.
@loonaticsrunningtheassylum Lets face it. Bikers are in a minority, particularly those that ride all year and commute. Governments have never cared about us and never will.
My diesel 2.0 is £30 a year, my 650cc motorcycle is £110. It's yet another tax on working and lower middle class people, like most other taxes. The govt should be encouraging motorcycling, it's far cleaner than car travel and would eliminate congestion if even a small % of drivers switched.
A sensible discourse on the subject (if anything successive governments can fall into the sensible brackets) that has convinced me to get involved and support MAG. I've sometimes felt that motorcyclists ride around with a big bull's eye on the back of our jackets and a very soft one at that, no offence intended to any scooter riders. Thank you.
Quoting the government website "From the second year of registration onwards, zero emission cars will move to the standard annual rate." It is confusing but I read this as, on 1st registration, an EV will pay £10 VED and then the normal rate from year 2, currently £190.
I think the discrepancy in VED on electric cars is driven by two factors. The first is that keeping EVs on the road longer is a good thing for the environment, so ought to be encouraged. The second is that most EVs in the higher tax range are luxury cars, and cost a lot of money... a bit like a big engined conventional car. Also they're owned by those with higher incomes, better able to be charged a higher amount. More recent EVs are becoming cheaper and in order to continue the uptake, need a bit of extra incentive to get us to take the plunge and increase the proportion of EVs to conventional cars that populate our roads. Not terribly joined-up thinking perhaps, but we are talking about politicians, aren't we!
Unfortunately this post is why you will not get younger bikers into MAG. I am coming up for 58, riding since I was old enough to do so. MAG whilst I agree with the majority of your campaings, the posts are like watching paint dry!
@Digger8180 Bit harsh, that. What do you want the presenter to do….roll over, bark, drop his strides and twerk? Some idiotic youngsters might get a kick but surely anyone with an ounce of common sense know the subject (tax) can’t really be sexed up.
Motorcyclists worldwide seem to be in the cross hairs at the moment. Here in New Zealand, the government recently announced that our ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation) levy, which represents a significant portion of motorcycle registration cost, will be increasing by approximately 30% over the next couple of years.😡
My bike now identifies as a VW Golf, they seem to have thrown darts at the wall to choose who pays what... Weight does make the most sense, which means the government will not consider it.
It's 30 years since I last rode a motorcycle (Z200), but £57 sounds a lot. My 2015 diesel car will see it's VED go up from £0 to £20. But the fuel consumption is about the same as I used to get out of my GT185, even though it has 5 x more horsepower.
MAG member, and glad of it. My 60 m.p.g. car is 1/6th of my 77 m.p.g. bike (Kawasaki W800) VED. Crazy world. At least classics are Zero rated but for how long is anyone's guess.
It's not fair for any vehicle; along with several motorbikes I have two cars which I drive very rarely (10 times less than the bikes) yet the VED is an order of magnitude higher. It makes no sense _at all_
As much as your arguement makes sense and i agree with them there is 1 thing 99% of all road users don't know, that is the number of non toll roads that are privately owned built & maintained that we use but are billed directly to the government. With this in mind I accept we should pay something to road use & upkeep but ask do any of us get our value for money? ( Yes that is sarcasm) . Those in power have seen fit to ignore bikes & bikers views for 50+ years, the only way VED could change in our favour would be campaign for deductions for 2nd 3rd or 4th vehicle discounts, not that that would help me personally as I'm a dying breed of a 1 vehicle only biker.
As it stands at Xmas 2024, I have a ford focus ecoboost 1.0 at £35 a year,I also have a 1997 Suzuki 1200 bandit,that I had to pay£175 to TFL to get it ULEZ compliant & emits less co2 than the focus & I have to pay £117 a year.
I've been ridng bikes for 52 years and always paid road tax (VED or whatever else you want to call it.) As you showed it is easy and straightforward to find out how much you need to pay related to the size of engine of your bike. My 599cc was £84 now gone up to £87 per year. I find that perfectly acceptable. If I couldn't afford this relatively small cost I would be asking myself if I should be running a motorcycle.
When you add all the rest of the times the government steal from us.. NO motorcycle VED is not acceptable when considering the stuff that costs next to nothing (because they happen to own one usually which makes it exempt.. funny that.. how criminals will be criminals) my bike does over 50 to the gallon, weights NOTHING so not damaging the roads, causes NO CONGESTION.. and costs £115+ a year.. that fkn great SUV milk fliats (ego taxi I call them) that only ever carries ONE PERSON weights 2.8 tons destroys the roads and CAUSES congestion costs less usually. Some may be more but generally not much.. the criminal government are crooks. They pretend that they need money to pay for thing THE PUBLIC WANTS/NEEDS. When in reality they're just laundering through be wars, foreign aid and friends and family businesses in my opinion... They need stopping and reminding they're SUPPOSED TO BE public servants.. they're just a criminal gang
It's the principle of a VED rate of £20 for a 60 mpg car but well over £100 for a 77 mpg bike. The immoral pricing. Logically, the bike should be £15 and if govt. can allow £20 for a car then it can afford to take the same or less for a bike.
That is to do with emissions not mpg. Most cars pay between £190 and £335. Like I said my bike is £84 for 12 months although I SORN it for 4 months so only pay for 8 months. Something you could not do in the past. After paying VED(😂) for the last 52 years I won't be losing any sleep over it now. I'm surprised MAG aren't still banging on about having to wear a crash helmet.🤣
The tax on ice cars registered from 2017 is £100 more than those registered before that.That is probably the reference point for the electric bike changes.As it is i pay more tax for my honda nsc 50 than i do for my hyundai i10 1.25 litre car.Crazy!.
Your proposal makes absolute sense to me, so how do we put pressure on the Government ? Your recent vid on your parliament visit didn’t give much hope…. How do we “up the anti”… ?
It's quite easy to guess why VED is disproportionately high for motorcycles. Which form of transport has proportionally more accidents. Therefore which section of the motoring public costs the NHS more money? The Government wants zero road casualties. Which section are they taxing out of existence first?
Taxation gets more complicated every year in order to employ more and more civil servants, got it ? I never used to like Steve Baker, the ex Tory MP not the American motorcycle racer from the 1970’s, as he was far too right wing for me. He seemed to do a decent job as Minister of State for Northern Ireland but his stock rose with me when I discovered that he was a motorcyclist and involved in the Motorcycling All Party Parliamentary Group (MAPPG). For whatever good it did or not, it appears that the MAPPG is now defunct suggesting that there isn’t a single motorcyclist in Parliament. So it’s no surprise that the Government doesn’t give two hoots about motorcycles 🇬🇧
I agree, and that's why we have the system we do. Depending on what you drive or ride, the ved is at a level that was dreamt up at the time for that vehicle, it's a mish mash that doesn't make sense.
I go a level deeper and ask what most of us do not ask: why should a person pay a tax for something he/she OWNS?! We do not pay for our fridge, or our oven, or phone etc. We purchased those things with our winnings, which were already taxed! We payed VAT when we purchased the things. So why paying annually for something we own, it is ours?!
Because criminals will be criminals (government) nothing but an extortion racket that the peasants let steal HUGE amounts of money from. And please don't give them any more Ideas about what to steal from us next.
EV road tax should be far more than ICE or motorbikes they weigh much more and do much more damage to the already unsafe (due to their state of disrepair) British roads
It's probably more to do with the amount of sales, more cars, and fewer bikes. So VED those few bikes more than the majority of cars. Maybe also the reason as to why the higher VED on 2017+ EVs, as that seems to be when more of them started selling. More of those on the road, more tax to be raised.
The real issue is taxes in general. Whatever we want to buy, with our money, that was already taxed. We pay another tax, even though the person selling it to us paid tax too. After you die, your child will pay tax for inheriting things that were already taxed on multiple levels. If they are allowed to rob the whole population, do you think they will give a break to motorcyclists?
The only fair change I see is to abolish VED. Fuel taxation is self regulating, as the more you need the more tax you pay. Why is a diesel fiesta less to tax than a 125cc motorcycle? There's no logic.
I have a little Skyteam Monkey 125 that I use occasionally with my motorhome. I shouldn't do, but I really begrudge paying £ 20 when my wifes diesel car is £ 30.
I just bought a triumph 765 RS 2024 it does around 52mpg, how much is that going to cost me? Euro 5 188kg weight, should be cheaper should it not? and newer emissons reductions bloody thing cost me £11,650!!!
That's it? A weight based VED scheme? How convenient that motorcycles don't have to confront the intransigence of our bike's emissions. We're still on EURO5 that cars were on ten years ago and we won't move to 6 until the end of the decade (if they attempt harmonisation with passenger car Euro7 then it will make getting Hayabusas through EURO5 look like a picnic).
To be honest, you make too much sense. This is why nothing will change, and the government only wants our cash. Wait for them to add the luxury tax VED on motorcycles above £xxxx. sad times. Good to see our roads are improving with all this tax.
It doesn't pay for the roads but it is a tax you pay to have a vehicle on the road. Hence it is called 'vehicle tax' on the government website and why many still call it 'road tax.'
Perfect it creates debate at all vehicle levels but it's simple for years all Governments have squandered tax payers money on various failed institutions and the UK in theory is insolvent so what ever you campaign around will fail, the UK's debt has to be cleared or there will be no tomorrow.
Part of the reason for 2 wheel ved could be that the net tax income for the government is much higher on cars than bikes. That is, there are substantially more cars sold than bikes, so the government rakes in far more tax on sales of cars, the fuel they use, insurance, etc, than bikes. That doesn't explain the strange anomalies with EVs mentioned here though, given the governments mental obsession with net zero it would seem logical to incentivise people to buy EVs as much as possible. But as I predicted many years ago, if EVs ever become the majority, the loss of fuel duty and vat revenue caused would be unsustainable, so another tax would be needed, which is probably where road use pricing will come in. The government hasn't fully thought the loss of ice powdered vehicles through though. EVs will never engender the passion the enthusiast has for cars, bikes etc, with a proper engine. So, along with the loss of the vehicles themselves, will be the massive aftermarket for accessories, modification, tuning, customisation, diy maintenance, servicing, press, used market, etc, etc. EVs are nothing more than transport appliances, there will never be a collectors market or anything to do with improvement of them. So once they are 3-5 years old, they'll be scrapped, no one will want an old EV. Just like a old fridge, tv or washing machine, at end of useful life, off to the tip or recycler, not a single tear shed. And the loss to the economy will be huge. Not like now, where old bikes and cars are still being used and generating tax revenue in parts, upgrading, and restoration after as much as 120 years!!!
Seems ludicrous that a bloody great EV SUV pays 'nothing' in proportion to its weight and carbon footprint making it, plus the amount of space it takes up, and the fact that there's only one occupant most of the time. They should be paying us motorcyclists!
Battery electrics are little more than a greenwash. A poorly executed one at that. The battery part ensures they're no better environmentally over their (comparatively short) lifecycle than an old petrol car (especially one converted to run on something cleaner). Economically they don't make sense either. That DSR you mentioned is £17k new. That money buys you A LOT of bike if you don't insist on an electric motor, especially on the second hand market. If you spend it wisely, you'll have enough left over for many many years of fuel and tax too. This is a load of bollocks. They're not even attempting to hide their intentions any more.
You are spouting Daily Mail BS. EVs have far far lower overall emissions over their lifetime. All the evidence is pointing to batteries out lasting cars. There are lots of EVs with 200,000 miles plus on the clock. My EV costs about 2p a mile to run. When i fill up my bike for £25 after a day out, that money would run my EV for a month.
Should be free tax for motorcycles .The roads are a danger for motorcycles no council willing to repair the roads to british standard.Yes i am a member of mag but dont get the open road mag??????Why
The gov. dont like bikes cos (most) dont drink petrol like cars, and petrol is ~ 50% TAX. It is currently 53p / litre tax on top of the petrol actual price then 20% vat on top of that total.. Now coin sider how much time you save not stuck in jams and looking for parking the expenditure difference starts to mount up. Then there are the parking charges local gov's rely on. And congestion fees.. and enforcement cameras for this, that and the other. Basically the car motorist is the highest persecuted tax provider in the country and they dont like people avoiding that. Most people do not realise how bad the tax situation is in this country, they just keep voting for the same old CR4P.
My Sons 2013 1.5 diesel euro 5 Dacia Sandero Car is zero Ved, none of this makes any sense at all. I have a 2019 1.5 Addblue diesel Citroen which is £165.00 ved the cars are the same weight and the Citroen has lower emissions output by 10 grams per kilometer, go figure.
Who wants to ride a ticking time bomb in the form of these electric motorbikes? If you've ever seen these things catch & the trouble it takes to put them out you'll agree it's not safe - I'll never feel comfortable about these things
This is easy to explain,as a motorcyclist you are classed as a potential subversive, a potential rebel of some sort. Plus the plethora of facial recognition cameras to follow and track our travels don’t work very well with full face helmets or bandannas over the face. Big brother wats to know everything.
Your idea does sound good to me, but I'm not an EValgilist, EV cars are stupidly heavy and they'll all find themselves in with Land Rovers and other large SUV/ pick-up type vehicles... Amusingly, a lot of sports cars would drop to a lower bracket... 🤔
My EV weights half as much as a Land Rover. I suspect I'd be paying just the same as anybody else with a 4 seater car with an 8 second 0-100kph. People seem not to realise all cars are getting heavier due to more stringent NCAP. In fact bikes are getting stupid heavy which puts me off these days.
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A pothole has to be 30cm wide and have a 40mm vertical edge to count as a defect.
The roads aren't even car worthy let alone safe for motorcycles.
North Yorkshire council must be getting sick of me flooding them with pot hole reports. Don't care what the size, if it's big enough to see, then I report it. Everyone should take a little time to do this instead of moaning. Chap at work fractured his cast ally rim, when I asked if he'd reported the hole...nope.
@chrispomphrett4283 it doesn't get a job number if it doesn't count.
Some months after it's been given a number, it might get repaired.
I hit a pothole in July that had a ramp patched into it.
I had oncoming headlights and didn't see it in time.
It had a 5" vertical edge. I hit it at 40 mph and damaged my lower back.
There will be more deaths and personal injuries,it's inevitable.
Paying tax related to vehicle weight, car and motorcycles seems eminently sensible. Therefore there is no way this government would ever consider it
electric cars weigh loads
Should be a pay-per-mile charge banded by vehicle weight.
What seems sensible on the initial consideration is entirely stupid in reality. Do you REALLY want to live your life looking at excel sheets to determine how much tax you'll pay on everything?
Eventually you'll pay personal income tax depending on how many lbs you weigh, because they'll say it correlates to health-care cost or some such nonsense.
Don't get sucked in!
@@Sankara561 We need LESS complication not MORE.
Lorries have paid VED related to axle weight to compensate for road damage for decades. The govt don't have to invent the wheel, just broaden out the categories.
VED should be zero for motorcycles. We are part of the solution. And governments should be encouraging their use!
Never gonna happen. They’re blind to any sensible promotions. We know that much.
Governments just don't like motorcycles, full stop :(
Thank you for your efforts through MAG though, it is appreciated!
this is the way and always has been, we are an unwanted, unloved, misunderstood and under-appreciated minority (and always have been). Such a shame.
They don’t like us full stop. Nothing they do makes any sense nowadays.
I've never known a government ever support motorcycling. They all say good things before they're elected, then renague on any useful promises. Though this Labour lot are the worst I have experienced. Vote Reform going forwards.
@@garyc7464 100% yep. Wife & I voted Reform last election, came a close 2nd where I live. Next time we should get across the line.
@@garyc7464livingston and blair did there were motorcycle bays all over the place but now they've all been taken away
My car does 25,000 miles a year at £30, my bike does 3,000 miles over 6 months at over £60. Doesn't make sense!
I have 3 bikes that I do a combined mileage of about 5000 a year on. However, without doing the SORN dance, I'm expected to pay over £360 a year for that privilege.
@@TheOriginalCoda Sounds like you would benefit from road pricing then.
@@B2C2007 I disagree with permanent toll roads on principle
My car tax is free yet weighs 6x more and averages twice the fuel consumption than my bike which costs £55. Is there any justification at all?
Because…..the establishment would like bikes done away with. Over my dead body.
It’s unfortunate that successive governments have had no interest in promoting motorcycles. The scale of VED rates for bikes is obviously ridiculous…….except to the government. When have common sense and government ever been bedmates?
'Tis sadly in line with inflation. And I mean REAL inflation, not those made-up figures they cram down people's throats every chance they get
Flip guys, here in New Zealand the government is putting our yearly registration for a 1 litre bike up to around 300 pounds and it's going to increase each year for the next few years. Governments don't want cheap, easy to park motorbikes. They want to get ICE vehicles off the road and our bikes are an obvious annoyance to this ideological position.
How much is the fine for no rego
@@miyrides1180 Not sure but it's certainly getting to the point where people will be taking the risk
@@Liam1304 I'm in the UK,costs me $180 bucks tax for my speed twin,I have 3 bikes in NZ ,I only use them for the one month of the year when I'm there and it still costs me more there,the NZ gov hate motorcycles.they are seeyouentes
If the Government were serious they would promote small capacity motorcycles (such as the Honda 125, Enfield 350’s etc) that do 100mpg, are physically small, practical, last forever, can be run on a shoestring. Genuine motoring for the masses.
We motorcyclists pay the most and in return get the worst deal, the centre of the road is never cleared of grit and mud (I live in a rural area) and shiney ironwork is nearly always in the centre of the road especially on a bend.
Drains & fancy cobbles on the exit point of mini islands where I live. No thought about motorcyclists safety at all!
I've only got one bike left now, I sold the rest but I made sure to keep one registered as a Historic Vehicle so no tax or MOT.
The road tax on motorcycles is extortionate considering the 3rd world dirt tracks the government call roads 🤬 % support for MAG and British bikers 👍💪🏍⛽🇬🇧
my yaris hybrid only does 60mpg and currently pays no tax, i just sold a CB500X WHhich did 94mpg but paid £71 , my new MT07 does 67mpg and currently pays £117 , none of these costs in any way reflects there Co2 emissions
Absolutely spot on!
Correct
It should be £30 flat rate for bikes and £15 for learners
damm dont buy a trike its even worse for an extra wheel😂
Your argument is totally logical, and the reason I pay a paltry sum to be a MAG member. If we don't argue for our rights, no one else will. United we stand... Join MAG if you want to keep your right to ride, free and fair.
Just rejoined MAG
It's all about the income from tax for the government and that's about it. If you're looking for joined up thinking you really ought to know by now that no government does that.
Toyota Aygo less than half the cost VED and insurance yet double the wheels, a lot more weight and pollution compared with my 200cc scooter! Make it make sense
Same thing here, comparing my Fiat Panda 1.2 @ £35 and my Suzuki Burgman scooter @£55, the latter only having done 7,500 miles since 2012.
I'm sure we have an associated membership of MAG through our membership of the VJMC. I'd really like to read the magazine.
I'm sure I remember a study many years ago imagining if the VED applied to vehicles were to be based on the damage to roads and emissions. As I recall the study concluded that the disproportionate damage and pollution caused by trucks compared with other vehicles would mean that all other categories would pay a fraction of what we actually do.
Governments of all flavours and brands have always hated motorcycles for nothing more than ideological reasons.
As always, good work MAG.
The early 80's saw massive strides forward in motorcycle design and performance. You can ride a tax and mot exempt bike now (40 years old) that is relatively "modern". You don't have to ride some old lamp post counter to take advantage of those financial benefits these days. Admitedly i am getting on in my years so i no longer hunger for the latest and greatest which is just aswell as i think new bike designs are heading in a too high tech direction so one of these 80's bikes restored is far more appealing to me at a fraction of the cost to run.
Just bought an r100 1980 ,for the same reasons 👍
@@John-cz2pe Yep. Five out of my six bikes are VED exempt (they vary from 1979 to 1983). The other one - a Royal Enfield 500 Bullet at Euro 4 standards, so very low emissions - is now £87pa compared to the £52 pa (I think) when I bought it new four years ago. That's more than my wife pays for the Clio sitting in the drive.
I've got a 1978 GS750, with decent tyres it's only the brakes that are noticibly different to a modern mid range bike.
@@unconventional-rebel stick a gsxr front end on
Yup. My VF1000 is 1985 vintage. My GSX1100EF is also 1985 vintage.
They're both quite capable machines, and, to my mind at least, much more usable than a 30k Ducati that you daren't ride or park anywhere.
If the government want to reduce congestion and emissions then make motorcycles tax free and encourage people to take to two wheels not two tone SUVs
our suv weighs 1,400 kgs not 2 tons or even the five tons of some Landrovers. our 4 19inch x 255 tyres last 3 years a set at £85 a corner.
In the dim and distant past it was decided the easiest way to do the VED was on CC.
Since then motorcycles have got larger and it's hard to think that back in 1970 up till then most bikes were app 650/750 and the Honda 750 four had just been introduced.
Again standards changed and emissions came into it but because of the 2 strokes bikes carried on in the same format.
I'm sure the manufacturers will have the emission figures for all their models and a system based on that could be introduced.
One caveat is that in the UK we are not subject to emission checks so that might open a can of worms at MOT time.
I don't think it's a deliberate strategy to get bikes off the road they just never consider bikes when they plan this stuff.
If wear and tear on the roads was the deciding factor all bikes should be free lol
My 4.25ton motorhome £165, my BMW r1150r over £110 both sorned when not in use on this countries shite roads, F them.
Yep and if your motorhome is under 3.5ton it is twice the cost of a 3.5ton upwards.
👍
Why aren't car drivers made to do as much training and stages of their license as bikes, are cars safer or easier to control.
People who want to drive a car should have to ride motorcycles first for at least a year, maybe then they would respect the vulnerability and appreciate them more, just a thought, I may be wrong,
The trouble is we’re dealing with mindless bureaucrats and governments who largely don’t give a split second’s thought to the both the safety and cost of motorcycling. When was the last big protest march?
The main reason for the inconsistencies in the VED rates for cars is that different rules were in place at the time of first registration, and those rules have continued to apply, despite changes for later vehicles. This is fairer to people who chose a model of car because of favourable rates at the time, than moving the goalposts later. I chose my car 8 years ago because of £0 VED (less than 100 gm/km CO2), but they have now decided to start charging £20 from next year.
I'm fortunate with my bikes, they are both Historic, and still have £0 VED (so far).
It still doesn't make sense to have bikes paying more than cars, though.
The successive Government's of this Country, have no interest in Motorcyclists. Never have, and never will.
Why should they? The revenue raised off motorcycles is tiny. I've been riding for 48+ years. And, it's the Govt of the UK not just England.
Basing V.E.D. on vehicle weight makes perfect sense.
But ! but ! That would penalise the EV brigade and their tanks 😝🤣
@@DaveHines1 Actually no. Road damage is roughly as the fourth power of axle loading. Cars have hardly any effect. Artics and 18 tonners do the most damage and they would be heavily taxed.
The difference between, say, a BMW electric 5 series (2.2t) and the highest spect straight petrol version (1.8t) is insignificant in road wear terms, and they are the same size.
@@EbenBransome not sure wether that’s directed at me or @noobiker , but if that is the case why is the road up to a bridge near me with a 3 tonne weight limit , the worst road for miles when it comes to pot holes , believe me there are enough bad roads here , but the one in question stands out above the rest
@@DaveHines1 Because it's a weak bridge, different issue. There's one at Marlow that can't take Range Rovers.
@@EbenBransome Eh, nothing to do with the weak bridge , all that means is that there shouldn’t be any heavy vehicles going on that road but the road still gets trashed , that was my point
It is Totally unfair !...Ridiculous when you consider some cars are free or £30 doing far more damage to the roads .My Triumph street tripple 765 is around £110+ and only covers a few thousand miles per year .
no such thing as road tax, VED does NOT pay for the roads.
The only 2 things that make sense to me to do with pricing etc for road motorbikes in London, free congestion charge and bus lane usage on red routes. Everything is aimed to get rid of them it seems. I'll be joining mag next month.
Considering the decaying roads we have to put up with I think the government should pay us to use them.
no such thing as road tax, VED does NOT pay for the roads.
@@RichO1701e Doesn`t matter - the comment mentioned decaying roads not tax.
Logical and fair combined with government decisions shouldn't be used together. The other piece is you can never convince politicians who dislike you and think your vile to be fair and logical. Money would be better spent voting them out.
Normally I keep my bike taxed all year round, I guess I will star to SORN it for winter moving forwards.
Just happened upon your channel. I didn't realize Motorcycle Action Group was still operating. I recall taking part in one of your M.A.G runs in the early 80's A couple of bands and a party followed in Cornwall. It was brilliant and remains in the forefront of my memory. I've taken up two wheel riding again in the last two years. Had to renew my V.E.D Today, and I believe the cost had increased. Like everything else within this age we share, we receive little in return for the multitude of stealth taxation. Precious little on road quality or anything else. Thanks for sharing
Government ved taxes are not fair. Unfortunately Governments have never cared.
VED, you can pay in lump sum or by direct debit.
If you pay by direct debit, what's to stop you making SORN over the months you don't use the bike. For some this will work out cheaper than paying for 6 months.
I refuse to pay by direct debit because it costs more. I have 4 bikes, one, which is taxed during the winter, so it's available for use as required. The others I tax only during spring and summer. Sorn at the end of the month and you get a refund for each full month. I'm not paying more to pay by direct debit,they can swivel 😊.
And to hell with those who commute all year round???
@loonaticsrunningtheassylum Lets face it. Bikers are in a minority, particularly those that ride all year and commute. Governments have never cared about us and never will.
Thank you for a great video and BTW we already pay per mile through 50% of fuel costs being duty and VAT.
My diesel 2.0 is £30 a year, my 650cc motorcycle is £110. It's yet another tax on working and lower middle class people, like most other taxes. The govt should be encouraging motorcycling, it's far cleaner than car travel and would eliminate congestion if even a small % of drivers switched.
A sensible discourse on the subject (if anything successive governments can fall into the sensible brackets) that has convinced me to get involved and support MAG. I've sometimes felt that motorcyclists ride around with a big bull's eye on the back of our jackets and a very soft one at that, no offence intended to any scooter riders. Thank you.
Quoting the government website "From the second year of registration onwards, zero emission cars will move to the standard annual rate." It is confusing but I read this as, on 1st registration, an EV will pay £10 VED and then the normal rate from year 2, currently £190.
I think the discrepancy in VED on electric cars is driven by two factors. The first is that keeping EVs on the road longer is a good thing for the environment, so ought to be encouraged. The second is that most EVs in the higher tax range are luxury cars, and cost a lot of money... a bit like a big engined conventional car. Also they're owned by those with higher incomes, better able to be charged a higher amount. More recent EVs are becoming cheaper and in order to continue the uptake, need a bit of extra incentive to get us to take the plunge and increase the proportion of EVs to conventional cars that populate our roads. Not terribly joined-up thinking perhaps, but we are talking about politicians, aren't we!
Unfortunately this post is why you will not get younger bikers into MAG. I am coming up for 58, riding since I was old enough to do so. MAG whilst I agree with the majority of your campaings, the posts are like watching paint dry!
@Digger8180
Bit harsh, that. What do you want the presenter to do….roll over, bark, drop his strides and twerk? Some idiotic youngsters might get a kick but surely anyone with an ounce of common sense know the subject (tax) can’t really be sexed up.
Labour don't want anyone on or in their own private transport and will make it so expensive accordingly.
It is what the wef wants. They control our government.
And lose all that revenue from fuel duty, vat on fuel, servicing and repair costs, and insurance premium tax? I don't think so.
@@trevorphillips3055 Elitism overrides other goals. Always. They're "fully committed" to them right up until it's time to screw the poors, yet again.
Not just labour,.. it's been spelt out in the UN documents. Don't be fooled into thinking theirs a saviour a different colour tie.... There isn't
@trevorphillips3055 it's nothing about money.. they print that when they like. There a few un documents that spell it out. Private transport is to go.
Motorcyclists worldwide seem to be in the cross hairs at the moment. Here in New Zealand, the government recently announced that our ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation) levy, which represents a significant portion of motorcycle registration cost, will be increasing by approximately 30% over the next couple of years.😡
My bike now identifies as a VW Golf, they seem to have thrown darts at the wall to choose who pays what... Weight does make the most sense, which means the government will not consider it.
It's 30 years since I last rode a motorcycle (Z200), but £57 sounds a lot. My 2015 diesel car will see it's VED go up from £0 to £20. But the fuel consumption is about the same as I used to get out of my GT185, even though it has 5 x more horsepower.
A tenner a month to get my bike on the road? No problem.
And if you take it off the road for winter and SORN it for 4 months you save £40.😊
MAG member, and glad of it. My 60 m.p.g. car is 1/6th of my 77 m.p.g. bike (Kawasaki W800) VED. Crazy world. At least classics are Zero rated but for how long is anyone's guess.
It's not fair for any vehicle; along with several motorbikes I have two cars which I drive very rarely (10 times less than the bikes) yet the VED is an order of magnitude higher. It makes no sense _at all_
As much as your arguement makes sense and i agree with them there is 1 thing 99% of all road users don't know, that is the number of non toll roads that are privately owned built & maintained that we use but are billed directly to the government. With this in mind I accept we should pay something to road use & upkeep but ask do any of us get our value for money? ( Yes that is sarcasm) . Those in power have seen fit to ignore bikes & bikers views for 50+ years, the only way VED could change in our favour would be campaign for deductions for 2nd 3rd or 4th vehicle discounts, not that that would help me personally as I'm a dying breed of a 1 vehicle only biker.
As it stands at Xmas 2024, I have a ford focus ecoboost 1.0 at £35 a year,I also have a 1997 Suzuki 1200 bandit,that I had to pay£175 to TFL to get it ULEZ compliant & emits less co2 than the focus & I have to pay £117 a year.
I've been ridng bikes for 52 years and always paid road tax (VED or whatever else you want to call it.) As you showed it is easy and straightforward to find out how much you need to pay related to the size of engine of your bike. My 599cc was £84 now gone up to £87 per year. I find that perfectly acceptable. If I couldn't afford this relatively small cost I would be asking myself if I should be running a motorcycle.
When you add all the rest of the times the government steal from us.. NO motorcycle VED is not acceptable when considering the stuff that costs next to nothing (because they happen to own one usually which makes it exempt.. funny that.. how criminals will be criminals) my bike does over 50 to the gallon, weights NOTHING so not damaging the roads, causes NO CONGESTION.. and costs £115+ a year.. that fkn great SUV milk fliats (ego taxi I call them) that only ever carries ONE PERSON weights 2.8 tons destroys the roads and CAUSES congestion costs less usually. Some may be more but generally not much.. the criminal government are crooks. They pretend that they need money to pay for thing THE PUBLIC WANTS/NEEDS. When in reality they're just laundering through be wars, foreign aid and friends and family businesses in my opinion... They need stopping and reminding they're SUPPOSED TO BE public servants.. they're just a criminal gang
It's the principle of a VED rate of £20 for a 60 mpg car but well over £100 for a 77 mpg bike. The immoral pricing. Logically, the bike should be £15 and if govt. can allow £20 for a car then it can afford to take the same or less for a bike.
That is to do with emissions not mpg. Most cars pay between £190 and £335. Like I said my bike is £84 for 12 months although I SORN it for 4 months so only pay for 8 months. Something you could not do in the past. After paying VED(😂) for the last 52 years I won't be losing any sleep over it now. I'm surprised MAG aren't still banging on about having to wear a crash helmet.🤣
Tax related to vehicle weight is the fairest and least ambiguous method so lets push for a change.
The tax on ice cars registered from 2017 is £100 more than those registered before that.That is probably the reference point for the electric bike changes.As it is i pay more tax for my honda nsc 50 than i do for my hyundai i10 1.25 litre car.Crazy!.
Your proposal makes absolute sense to me, so how do we put pressure on the Government ? Your recent vid on your parliament visit didn’t give much hope…. How do we “up the anti”… ?
It's quite easy to guess why VED is disproportionately high for motorcycles. Which form of transport has proportionally more accidents. Therefore which section of the motoring public costs the NHS more money? The Government wants zero road casualties. Which section are they taxing out of existence first?
Taxation gets more complicated every year in order to employ more and more civil servants, got it ?
I never used to like Steve Baker, the ex Tory MP not the American motorcycle racer from the 1970’s, as he was far too right wing for me. He seemed to do a decent job as Minister of State for Northern Ireland but his stock rose with me when I discovered that he was a motorcyclist and involved in the Motorcycling All Party Parliamentary Group (MAPPG). For whatever good it did or not, it appears that the MAPPG is now defunct suggesting that there isn’t a single motorcyclist in Parliament. So it’s no surprise that the Government doesn’t give two hoots about motorcycles 🇬🇧
It's only ever about the money.
Don't try to make any more sense of it than that.
I agree, and that's why we have the system we do. Depending on what you drive or ride, the ved is at a level that was dreamt up at the time for that vehicle, it's a mish mash that doesn't make sense.
I go a level deeper and ask what most of us do not ask: why should a person pay a tax for something he/she OWNS?! We do not pay for our fridge, or our oven, or phone etc. We purchased those things with our winnings, which were already taxed! We payed VAT when we purchased the things. So why paying annually for something we own, it is ours?!
Because criminals will be criminals (government) nothing but an extortion racket that the peasants let steal HUGE amounts of money from. And please don't give them any more Ideas about what to steal from us next.
I pay more ved for my motorcycle than for an EV car or 1 lire car
Will this apply to electric bikes most of which seem to use pedals to assist the motor rather than the other way round
EV road tax should be far more than ICE or motorbikes they weigh much more and do much more damage to the already unsafe (due to their state of disrepair) British roads
Why are i am not getting OPEN ROAD mag a full member
My new CanAm Spyder trike is classed as a Private Light Goods vehicle at £335 per year. Ouch!
When i started riding the road tax for 750cc was £20
Unless you started riding in the 1930s, no you didn't. "road tax" is a BS myth spread by ignorant morons.
It's probably more to do with the amount of sales, more cars, and fewer bikes. So VED those few bikes more than the majority of cars.
Maybe also the reason as to why the higher VED on 2017+ EVs, as that seems to be when more of them started selling. More of those on the road, more tax to be raised.
The real issue is taxes in general. Whatever we want to buy, with our money, that was already taxed. We pay another tax, even though the person selling it to us paid tax too. After you die, your child will pay tax for inheriting things that were already taxed on multiple levels. If they are allowed to rob the whole population, do you think they will give a break to motorcyclists?
The only fair change I see is to abolish VED. Fuel taxation is self regulating, as the more you need the more tax you pay. Why is a diesel fiesta less to tax than a 125cc motorcycle? There's no logic.
I have a little Skyteam Monkey 125 that I use occasionally with my motorhome. I shouldn't do, but I really begrudge paying £ 20 when my wifes diesel car is £ 30.
The old system was fairer by taking into account weight and capacity!
I just bought a triumph 765 RS 2024 it does around 52mpg, how much is that going to cost me?
Euro 5 188kg weight, should be cheaper should it not? and newer emissons reductions bloody thing cost me £11,650!!!
Just had a tax reminder for my bike and car, euro4 Citroen C1, £20. Euro 5 Honda SH125, £25. ???
VED should be by weight classification
My son drives a VW Scirocco 2.0 tdi £30 yearly tax. I drive a VX Corsa 1.2 petrol £198 yearly tax.
That's it? A weight based VED scheme? How convenient that motorcycles don't have to confront the intransigence of our bike's emissions. We're still on EURO5 that cars were on ten years ago and we won't move to 6 until the end of the decade (if they attempt harmonisation with passenger car Euro7 then it will make getting Hayabusas through EURO5 look like a picnic).
This is the UK, nothing is fair , its
simply a battle between government
and citizens, why is it so difficult
all the time . ?? R
To be honest, you make too much sense. This is why nothing will change, and the government only wants our cash. Wait for them to add the luxury tax VED on motorcycles above £xxxx. sad times. Good to see our roads are improving with all this tax.
VED is unfair Full Stop !
Especially as it is not spent on the Roads.
7:08 - why feed the BS myth about VED paying for the roads, aka, "road tax"?
It doesn't pay for the roads but it is a tax you pay to have a vehicle on the road. Hence it is called 'vehicle tax' on the government website and why many still call it 'road tax.'
I have an electric scooter. No point in a 50 mile range if i pay the same tax as a 125 with 200 mile range
Perfect it creates debate at all vehicle levels but it's simple for years all Governments have squandered tax payers money on various failed institutions and the UK in theory is insolvent so what ever you campaign around will fail, the UK's debt has to be cleared or there will be no tomorrow.
Part of the reason for 2 wheel ved could be that the net tax income for the government is much higher on cars than bikes. That is, there are substantially more cars sold than bikes, so the government rakes in far more tax on sales of cars, the fuel they use, insurance, etc, than bikes. That doesn't explain the strange anomalies with EVs mentioned here though, given the governments mental obsession with net zero it would seem logical to incentivise people to buy EVs as much as possible. But as I predicted many years ago, if EVs ever become the majority, the loss of fuel duty and vat revenue caused would be unsustainable, so another tax would be needed, which is probably where road use pricing will come in. The government hasn't fully thought the loss of ice powdered vehicles through though. EVs will never engender the passion the enthusiast has for cars, bikes etc, with a proper engine. So, along with the loss of the vehicles themselves, will be the massive aftermarket for accessories, modification, tuning, customisation, diy maintenance, servicing, press, used market, etc, etc. EVs are nothing more than transport appliances, there will never be a collectors market or anything to do with improvement of them. So once they are 3-5 years old, they'll be scrapped, no one will want an old EV. Just like a old fridge, tv or washing machine, at end of useful life, off to the tip or recycler, not a single tear shed. And the loss to the economy will be huge. Not like now, where old bikes and cars are still being used and generating tax revenue in parts, upgrading, and restoration after as much as 120 years!!!
Errr… no
Seems ludicrous that a bloody great EV SUV pays 'nothing' in proportion to its weight and carbon footprint making it, plus the amount of space it takes up, and the fact that there's only one occupant most of the time. They should be paying us motorcyclists!
Why are electric vehicles paying less than ice? Electrics are usually heavier and to more damage. Ved is an eco tax!
Battery electrics are little more than a greenwash. A poorly executed one at that.
The battery part ensures they're no better environmentally over their (comparatively short) lifecycle than an old petrol car (especially one converted to run on something cleaner).
Economically they don't make sense either. That DSR you mentioned is £17k new. That money buys you A LOT of bike if you don't insist on an electric motor, especially on the second hand market. If you spend it wisely, you'll have enough left over for many many years of fuel and tax too.
This is a load of bollocks. They're not even attempting to hide their intentions any more.
You are spouting Daily Mail BS. EVs have far far lower overall emissions over their lifetime. All the evidence is pointing to batteries out lasting cars. There are lots of EVs with 200,000 miles plus on the clock. My EV costs about 2p a mile to run. When i fill up my bike for £25 after a day out, that money would run my EV for a month.
Should be free tax for motorcycles .The roads are a danger for motorcycles no council willing to repair the roads to british standard.Yes i am a member of mag but dont get the open road mag??????Why
So my EV motorcycle will pay more than my car?
It never has been or will be fair,life isnt fair
But if VED was based on vehicle weight, EVs would come out badly which, again, isn't logical....unless I've missed something in your argument
I bought an old bike so dont have to pay ved mot or ulez .
The gov. dont like bikes cos (most) dont drink petrol like cars, and petrol is ~ 50% TAX.
It is currently 53p / litre tax on top of the petrol actual price then 20% vat on top of that total..
Now coin sider how much time you save not stuck in jams and looking for parking the expenditure difference starts to mount up.
Then there are the parking charges local gov's rely on. And congestion fees.. and enforcement cameras for this, that and the other.
Basically the car motorist is the highest persecuted tax provider in the country and they dont like people avoiding that.
Most people do not realise how bad the tax situation is in this country, they just keep voting for the same old CR4P.
The chances of that are non existent, hell will freeze over first. All motorists are just an easy cash cow.
I have heard that your doctor has powders for VED. Don't be shy 🙂
Sorry can't reply on a postcard can't afford the stamp's.
My Sons 2013 1.5 diesel euro 5 Dacia Sandero Car is zero Ved, none of this makes any sense at all. I have a 2019 1.5 Addblue diesel Citroen which is £165.00 ved the cars are the same weight and the Citroen has lower emissions output by 10 grams per kilometer, go figure.
Electric cars are bigger and weigh more, not to mention the the devastation caused by their manufacture to the landscape in lithium mining areas.
Who wants to ride a ticking time bomb in the form of these electric motorbikes? If you've ever seen these things catch & the trouble it takes to put them out you'll agree it's not safe - I'll never feel comfortable about these things
Who cares? Haven't taxed my Yamaha for twenty years.
This is easy to explain,as a motorcyclist you are classed as a potential subversive, a potential rebel of some sort. Plus the plethora of facial recognition cameras to follow and track our travels don’t work very well with full face helmets or bandannas over the face. Big brother wats to know everything.
Your idea does sound good to me, but I'm not an EValgilist, EV cars are stupidly heavy and they'll all find themselves in with Land Rovers and other large SUV/ pick-up type vehicles... Amusingly, a lot of sports cars would drop to a lower bracket... 🤔
My EV weights half as much as a Land Rover. I suspect I'd be paying just the same as anybody else with a 4 seater car with an 8 second 0-100kph.
People seem not to realise all cars are getting heavier due to more stringent NCAP. In fact bikes are getting stupid heavy which puts me off these days.
Could it be that motorists are voting with their feet and refusing to buy new evs, which buggers up their net zero target. Enter the new ev ved bribe…