I have built two trimarans, both with dagger boards, and one also had ama foils. We twice took on coral and lost, but the damage to the structure around the head of the boards is the show stopper. Even at 5kts you will spend a lot of time and money fixing this damage. A friend with a 65’ tri needed to find some heavy duty hydraulic equipment to extract the d/b from the carnage caused before he could start fixing the board and all the structure around it. Having learned that lesson we built the second boat with a frangible tip to the board, but it still needed significant downtime to repair I know that Tim Mumby installs a very simple d/b 1:1 control system on his aluminium cats but most others need quite heavy and expensive winches and various lines and jammers If I were to have another cruising multi it would certainly not have daggerboards. Kick up centreboards as John Marples designs them are however a different kettle of fish tho’ I am unaware of any twin c/b catamarans out there I wonder what Nahoa will go for this time?
Thanks so much for sharing your experience and right now the dagger board debate is still up in the air this side. My initial, although uninformed, gut feel is exactly what you describe where you do hit something then you are stuck. My intention with Destiny is to go far off the beaten track so KISS is where it is at. Having said that Elcie, David's 62, did have daggerboards and knowing that David has the KISS methodology I am sure he will have a way. From what I know Nahoa are not going for daggerboards but this is on the list for me to talk to David about and come up with the cost benefit analysis later this year. Thanks for the comment and support and for sharing your experience 🙏
It always amazes me that people think that dagger boards are only for performance!!! This is not their most important aspect. They are primarily a safety device. A catamaran acts like a raft on the water, having the ability to raise daggerboards in heaven conditions allows the vessel to slide sideways if hit by a rouge wave for example. Having no mini keels to trip on is a huge advantage. The ability to beat off a lee shore should not be underestimated, there is much less leeway with dagger boards than mini keels, especially in the aerated water of breaking waves on the surface. this can be the difference between safely make your way out to sea or ending up on the beach. JMHO, cheers Rustie.
Hey Rustie - thanks for the comment and for taking the time to provide such great insight. I hear you on the dagger boards for safety and the more I think about it the more I think that David and I need to have a decent conversation about it. He still has a few months to finalise the design for Nahoa, from what I know, and then when we sit down to look into my tweaks I'll have the conversation with him. Thanks again.
Ive made 3 comments that seem to have dissapeared , but may return in a while. The other thing you need to discuss is the insulation of the hull to keep it cool , to keep it warm and condensation free in cold waters .. and to reduce noise and the risk of corrosion safely on an Al hull without introducing volatiles and Hydrocarbon foams. To this end look at the French German and increasingly Scandinavian practice of using Cork sprayed on the inside and used as both Sea decking and interior flooring .
Not to sure what happened to those comments as they did not pop up this side either ? Thanks for the tip of the cork for the insulation. I've had a brief chat to David about this and he mentioned some primer/paint that you can put on internally to help as well but will definitely check out the cork. Love the idea of the cork for interior flooring and decking. Thanks for the comment and support 🙏
@@sailing.destiny I found the main one in a responses run of 4 comments .. There's several UK and naturally many European suppliers of Cork for all manners of use it's even fire resistant .. I cannot mention it but there's a big online Boating publication that's done a couple of more deep dives into practical alternatives to traditional decking materials and the pros and cons.. you can get it in different colours ..finishes even marked out like planking.. the life expectancy is also long and it can be refinished. If you have an open E mail link I can give you the info I have found. ODD life .. a lovely Brazilian couple are building an Al monohull and they have looked at a few boats using cork inside and out.. at the moment they are testing it in a van conversion in the S. Of France . 🧙🏻♂️🇬🇧👍🏻 The good thing is it can be removed if needed and yet doesn't allow bumps to chip like paint alone. Al oxidizes to form a natural Anodised layer if it's the correct grade .. which is why Yatchs like Elcie are raw metal finish. There are now special paints that have been developed one by a French company .. called chameleon paint. Its inversely thermally reactive so as it gets hot it reflects more energy to keep surfaces cool and as it cools below a certain temp it changes to absorb more solar energy. 🤓
Stumbled across your channel in my feed (RUclips algorithm must be working hahaa) Love watching your journey, you bring great transparency and humor. David and I crossed paths by happenstance at the Annapolis boat show last October; he's an absolute gem and his designs are, as you know, brilliant #KISS! Was stoked to hear your starting a Nahoa in early 2025, I have also selected to go with the Nahoa design but about a year behind your timeline to wrap up a work commitment. In May I connected with the Cambodia/VietNam yards and can't wait to hear how your visits go, what you learn and if you end up leaning in the same direction builder wise or find something unexpected in the UAE :) Thanks for sharing your journey, I am so excited to follow along!
Hey Camie... thanks so much for the message and great to hear the RUclips algorithms are working. Sounds like we are on the exact same path... just that I am a few months ahead of you and hope that the content I put out there will add some value... that's the idea I guess is the put my failings/learnings out there so that others do not have to go through the same process. Thanks also for the compliment on my style and humour... and may have PTSD as when I read the humour part I just spotted my teenagers rolling their eyes at me saying "Dad you're not funny"... Thanks again for the comment and support and greetings from Bangkok ...
Great video Clint! I have to say I was extremely impressed with David all around, his conservative nature in the build of his boats and honest really came across clearly. He’s someone I’d be proud to be working with building a catamaran and I can see why you and others are excited to be working with him, a true professional. Also thanks for the shout out during the comments/questions portion. David was spot on with his answer and definitely something that people considering building an aluminum boat should be clear on. A high quality aluminum build with the same equipment and systems to a similar level of finished quality is going to be on par with a high quality Carbon/Epoxy build catamaran. It was also very impressive how he answered the displacement question, and loved how he just shakes his head when people (like you and me lol) keep adding “stuff” to these boats. 100% guilty here, but like he said its all a series of compromises, and if adding a dishwasher and washer dryer keeps my wife smiling then fantastic we are adding the weight to the boat! So on the flybridge, just go sort of hybrid with a lounger pad up there, that’s what we’ve done after seeing it on our friend’s boat we did the salty dawg rally aboard. Was so cool, and just had to give up one solar panel. Anyway, sorry for not seeing this video until now, been a crazy busy few weeks, but I’ll reach out soon and we can do a zoom call, also feel free to check out our instagram SailingVaster. (Now 6 months out from splash day!) Cheers!
Hey Kirk - thanks as always for the comment and support. Yip .. one of the first things I said to David (besides the Flybridge banter) was that AC and a dishwasher for me was non negotiable 🤣 Please do let me know about what lounger options/brands you spotted as this could be an opportunity for me to do a "Flybridge" episode. I was actually thinking out this as David mentioned that Delos had found a brand of solar panels that can harness crazy energy so with all that coach roof top and lounger or two sounds 🤙 So good to know that you are 6 months away from splash... that's epic. Have followed you over on the insta world to follow you progress. Thanks again as always an no rush on the Zoom .. we can get there when we get there.
@@sailing.destiny definitely look forward to chatting more about your conversation with David and your upcoming project. Are you going to be in Bangkok for a while yet? We will be there in about 3 weeks & would be great to meet up if you’re still in the area!
@@kirkb3473 I will be in the UAE en route to Sardinia for a "motor" sailing trip ... we got a Lagoon 45 so let's see 😊 Will DM you my travel movements on Insta as I am back in BKK in September again.
What a nice gentleman David is. Thank you for this. Learning a lot listen to you both. Dreaming of being out there on my own cat but probably will stay that. Building my dream boat in my head for now. I used to be a windsurfer on a competitive level and had also had a Hobie Cat for a while. So definitively agree with David that a cat should sail and not just bob around. The sensation of speed on the water has to be experienced! Waiting for the 1000th subscriber 🙃.
Thanks so much for the comment and support. Yip... David is a legend. One of my favourite sayings/quotes is "What a human thinks... a human becomes..." so keep dreaming about that cat 😊 Onwards and upwards to the 1000 mark and I'll hold up my side of the deal to do a live Q&A with David somewhere in the world.
Hey Norman - thanks for the comment. They did the hull flip this weekend, which is why David was here, and from my understanding the fabrication goes until October this year and then the fit out will start. Looking at 18 month build time ... but could be wrong
mini keels will not give you the pointing or Preformance that Hi-aspect boards will provide, however , SCABBOARDs will keep the sailing performance and add SAFETY of centerboards without the design flaws centerboards suffer from........additionally they will save weight. Material selections will assist in monitoring weight
Follow up on the comments on daggerboards, they should all have sacrificial ends that break off when you hit something. I would respectfully disagree with David re going to remote places and daggerboards, Elsie, of course is the perfect example-- she is a damn good boat!
I know I previously mentioned The Deep blue Rapido 550 and the Windelo's... The Windelo is the one with the enclosed forward cockpit and the Basalt fiber hull...being moulded they can be built faster... there's a film showing one being laid up and it's complete in under two weeks..and the finish involves no fairing as it's superior to GRP it's also a performer. With big sliding windows all round and rear doors that open up fully.
@@pmorph 👍🏻Dagger boards can be made of Composite and should be designed to break off in a grounding or collision. If they are symmetrical you can swap them over and you can always carry at least one spare against the rails if not in the front locker. If the boss doesn't like GRP ...neither do I ...it's horrible stuff and an Environmental nightmare going forward as it uses ten times the energy and even more in water than Basalt fiber to produce. It produces CO2 to produce the glass as well as to melt it and produce the fibers it is also inferior in terms of many of its properties compared to the Basalt. Basalts inert UV radiation proof, Chemically and electrically largely inert and resistant to both osmosis mould and temperature extremes it's also an insulator thermal and sound wise. It's itchy free 😁😎and unlike GRP it's fragments don't usually form the nano needles that enter the environment and body's of living organisms. 😬 There's a recent piece of research been done on this in the UK and it's alarming.
a good cat designer says no a lot! Weight is the enemy and creeps up when owners starting adding stuff, air con, large fuel tanks, corian bench tops, icemakers etc, So if you keep it KISS and stay within the limits set by the designer it should hit the waterline marks.
I have built two trimarans, both with dagger boards, and one also had ama foils. We twice took on coral and lost, but the damage to the structure around the head of the boards is the show stopper. Even at 5kts you will spend a lot of time and money fixing this damage. A friend with a 65’ tri needed to find some heavy duty hydraulic equipment to extract the d/b from the carnage caused before he could start fixing the board and all the structure around it. Having learned that lesson we built the second boat with a frangible tip to the board, but it still needed significant downtime to repair
I know that Tim Mumby installs a very simple d/b 1:1 control system on his aluminium cats but most others need quite heavy and expensive winches and various lines and jammers
If I were to have another cruising multi it would certainly not have daggerboards. Kick up centreboards as John Marples designs them are however a different kettle of fish tho’ I am unaware of any twin c/b catamarans out there
I wonder what Nahoa will go for this time?
Thanks so much for sharing your experience and right now the dagger board debate is still up in the air this side. My initial, although uninformed, gut feel is exactly what you describe where you do hit something then you are stuck. My intention with Destiny is to go far off the beaten track so KISS is where it is at.
Having said that Elcie, David's 62, did have daggerboards and knowing that David has the KISS methodology I am sure he will have a way.
From what I know Nahoa are not going for daggerboards but this is on the list for me to talk to David about and come up with the cost benefit analysis later this year.
Thanks for the comment and support and for sharing your experience 🙏
Listen to David and keep it simple. The less fancy stuff the better. You will have less to maintain, and more time sailing!
Yes Sir.... I keep reminding myself that KISS is the way to go. Thanks for the comment and support.
It always amazes me that people think that dagger boards are only for performance!!! This is not their most important aspect. They are primarily a safety device. A catamaran acts like a raft on the water, having the ability to raise daggerboards in heaven conditions allows the vessel to slide sideways if hit by a rouge wave for example. Having no mini keels to trip on is a huge advantage. The ability to beat off a lee shore should not be underestimated, there is much less leeway with dagger boards than mini keels, especially in the aerated water of breaking waves on the surface. this can be the difference between safely make your way out to sea or ending up on the beach. JMHO, cheers Rustie.
Hey Rustie - thanks for the comment and for taking the time to provide such great insight. I hear you on the dagger boards for safety and the more I think about it the more I think that David and I need to have a decent conversation about it. He still has a few months to finalise the design for Nahoa, from what I know, and then when we sit down to look into my tweaks I'll have the conversation with him. Thanks again.
Ive made 3 comments that seem to have dissapeared , but may return in a while. The other thing you need to discuss is the insulation of the hull to keep it cool , to keep it warm and condensation free in cold waters .. and to reduce noise and the risk of corrosion safely on an Al hull without introducing volatiles and Hydrocarbon foams.
To this end look at the French German and increasingly Scandinavian practice of using Cork sprayed on the inside and used as both Sea decking and interior flooring .
Not to sure what happened to those comments as they did not pop up this side either ? Thanks for the tip of the cork for the insulation. I've had a brief chat to David about this and he mentioned some primer/paint that you can put on internally to help as well but will definitely check out the cork. Love the idea of the cork for interior flooring and decking. Thanks for the comment and support 🙏
@@sailing.destiny
I found the main one in a responses run of 4 comments ..
There's several UK and naturally many European suppliers of Cork for all manners of use it's even fire resistant .. I cannot mention it but there's a big online Boating publication that's done a couple of more deep dives into practical alternatives to traditional decking materials and the pros and cons.. you can get it in different colours ..finishes even marked out like planking.. the life expectancy is also long and it can be refinished. If you have an
open E mail link I can give you the info I have found.
ODD life .. a lovely Brazilian couple are building an Al monohull and they have looked at a few boats using cork inside and out.. at the moment they are testing it in a van conversion in the S. Of France . 🧙🏻♂️🇬🇧👍🏻
The good thing is it can be removed if needed and yet doesn't allow bumps to chip like paint alone.
Al oxidizes to form a natural Anodised layer if it's the correct grade .. which is why Yatchs like Elcie are raw metal finish.
There are now special paints that have been developed one by a French company .. called chameleon paint. Its inversely thermally reactive so as it gets hot it reflects more energy to keep surfaces cool and as it cools below a certain temp it changes to absorb more solar energy. 🤓
Stumbled across your channel in my feed (RUclips algorithm must be working hahaa) Love watching your journey, you bring great transparency and humor. David and I crossed paths by happenstance at the Annapolis boat show last October; he's an absolute gem and his designs are, as you know, brilliant #KISS! Was stoked to hear your starting a Nahoa in early 2025, I have also selected to go with the Nahoa design but about a year behind your timeline to wrap up a work commitment. In May I connected with the Cambodia/VietNam yards and can't wait to hear how your visits go, what you learn and if you end up leaning in the same direction builder wise or find something unexpected in the UAE :) Thanks for sharing your journey, I am so excited to follow along!
Hey Camie... thanks so much for the message and great to hear the RUclips algorithms are working. Sounds like we are on the exact same path... just that I am a few months ahead of you and hope that the content I put out there will add some value... that's the idea I guess is the put my failings/learnings out there so that others do not have to go through the same process.
Thanks also for the compliment on my style and humour... and may have PTSD as when I read the humour part I just spotted my teenagers rolling their eyes at me saying "Dad you're not funny"...
Thanks again for the comment and support and greetings from Bangkok ...
Great video Clint! I have to say I was extremely impressed with David all around, his conservative nature in the build of his boats and honest really came across clearly. He’s someone I’d be proud to be working with building a catamaran and I can see why you and others are excited to be working with him, a true professional.
Also thanks for the shout out during the comments/questions portion. David was spot on with his answer and definitely something that people considering building an aluminum boat should be clear on. A high quality aluminum build with the same equipment and systems to a similar level of finished quality is going to be on par with a high quality Carbon/Epoxy build catamaran. It was also very impressive how he answered the displacement question, and loved how he just shakes his head when people (like you and me lol) keep adding “stuff” to these boats. 100% guilty here, but like he said its all a series of compromises, and if adding a dishwasher and washer dryer keeps my wife smiling then fantastic we are adding the weight to the boat!
So on the flybridge, just go sort of hybrid with a lounger pad up there, that’s what we’ve done after seeing it on our friend’s boat we did the salty dawg rally aboard. Was so cool, and just had to give up one solar panel. Anyway, sorry for not seeing this video until now, been a crazy busy few weeks, but I’ll reach out soon and we can do a zoom call, also feel free to check out our instagram SailingVaster. (Now 6 months out from splash day!)
Cheers!
Hey Kirk - thanks as always for the comment and support. Yip .. one of the first things I said to David (besides the Flybridge banter) was that AC and a dishwasher for me was non negotiable 🤣
Please do let me know about what lounger options/brands you spotted as this could be an opportunity for me to do a "Flybridge" episode. I was actually thinking out this as David mentioned that Delos had found a brand of solar panels that can harness crazy energy so with all that coach roof top and lounger or two sounds 🤙
So good to know that you are 6 months away from splash... that's epic. Have followed you over on the insta world to follow you progress.
Thanks again as always an no rush on the Zoom .. we can get there when we get there.
@@sailing.destiny definitely look forward to chatting more about your conversation with David and your upcoming project. Are you going to be in Bangkok for a while yet? We will be there in about 3 weeks & would be great to meet up if you’re still in the area!
@@kirkb3473 I will be in the UAE en route to Sardinia for a "motor" sailing trip ... we got a Lagoon 45 so let's see 😊 Will DM you my travel movements on Insta as I am back in BKK in September again.
What a nice gentleman David is. Thank you for this. Learning a lot listen to you both. Dreaming of being out there on my own cat but probably will stay that. Building my dream boat in my head for now. I used to be a windsurfer on a competitive level and had also had a Hobie Cat for a while. So definitively agree with David that a cat should sail and not just bob around. The sensation of speed on the water has to be experienced! Waiting for the 1000th subscriber 🙃.
Thanks so much for the comment and support. Yip... David is a legend. One of my favourite sayings/quotes is "What a human thinks... a human becomes..." so keep dreaming about that cat 😊 Onwards and upwards to the 1000 mark and I'll hold up my side of the deal to do a live Q&A with David somewhere in the world.
BTW, give up on the flybridge!!!! David is right!
Oh I have ... it's just an inside joke between David and I know ... now to get the $$'s so that he can design the 65 WITH a flybridge for me 🤣
@@sailing.destiny
He would give you a can opener and say Umm you want it you do it. 😂
Can david advise me of the current status/ progress of the Delos ll project?
Hey Norman - thanks for the comment. They did the hull flip this weekend, which is why David was here, and from my understanding the fabrication goes until October this year and then the fit out will start. Looking at 18 month build time ... but could be wrong
mini keels will not give you the pointing or Preformance that Hi-aspect boards will provide, however , SCABBOARDs will keep the sailing performance and add SAFETY of centerboards without the design flaws
centerboards suffer from........additionally they will save weight.
Material selections will assist in monitoring weight
Thanks for the comment and support !
Follow up on the comments on daggerboards, they should all have sacrificial ends that break off when you hit something. I would respectfully disagree with David re going to remote places and daggerboards, Elsie, of course is the perfect example-- she is a damn good boat!
Thanks for the comment - hope you spotted the shout out. The more I hear about her the more I know I need to get onto Elcie !
@@sailing.destiny yeah saw the shout out.. t was a great interview.
🙏
I know I previously mentioned The Deep blue Rapido 550 and the Windelo's... The Windelo is the one with the enclosed forward cockpit and the Basalt fiber hull...being moulded they can be built faster... there's a film showing one being laid up
and it's complete in under two weeks..and the finish involves no fairing as it's superior to GRP it's also a performer. With big sliding windows all round and rear doors that open up fully.
@@pmorph
👍🏻Dagger boards can be made of Composite and should be designed to break off in a grounding or collision. If they are symmetrical you can swap them over and you can always carry at least one spare against the rails if not in the front locker. If the boss doesn't like GRP ...neither do I ...it's horrible stuff and an Environmental nightmare going forward as it uses ten times the energy and even more in water than Basalt fiber to produce. It produces CO2 to produce the glass as well as to melt it and produce the fibers it is also inferior in terms of many of its properties compared to the Basalt. Basalts inert UV radiation proof, Chemically and electrically largely inert and resistant to both osmosis mould and temperature extremes it's also an insulator thermal and sound wise.
It's itchy free 😁😎and unlike GRP it's fragments don't usually form the nano needles that enter the environment and body's of living organisms. 😬 There's a recent piece of research been done on this in the UK and it's alarming.
a good cat designer says no a lot! Weight is the enemy and creeps up when owners starting adding stuff, air con, large fuel tanks, corian bench tops, icemakers etc, So if you keep it KISS and stay within the limits set by the designer it should hit the waterline marks.
KISS for the WIN! 🙏