Willsenton R300 vs Budget DIY 300B: Further Testing & Review.
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2023
- In this video I do some further objective performance testing of this 300B audio amplifier against my home built, Budget DIY 300B amp using lower tier parts, running both amps through some tests with the Audio Analyzer Suite using the Analog Discovery 2. @TheStuffMade
Several people were making excuses for this amp speculating the earlier measurements were "Normal" for a 300B amp. Well they aren't. Also note I posted the results from the best performing channel on both amps to exclude that from this comparison. But there was more variation between the left and right channels on the R300, but I do want to show it in it's best light.
The 300B is a classic direct heated triode that some say is the best sounding audio tube ever made. This amplifier has gotten a lot of positive reviews from YT influencers in the audiophile world and I'm excited to see if this amp lives up to all the hype that has been created around it.
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Amazing video, thanks for shedding light on the Chinese amp market. Scopes can't tell you everything but they can tell you when something is seriously awry. Also, you have a clear understanding of what your criteria is and explain them and also why some sorts of distortion is actually desirable very well. It's also great as a long time subscriber to see that you're up over 8K and very well deserved at that, more to come!
Great video, Stephe. It is going to be utterly fascinating to observe what you find on analysing the R300
Love from Australia
Always appreciate how well you present your analysis and diagnostics.
Really clear explanation of what we are seeing on the graphs vs sound output. Thanks!
Brilliant! Loving these series you are doing! I think the old saying you get what you pay for is ringing true more and more
Loving all the content! Keep it up Stephe!
Thank you very much for all your objective work on the Willsenton R300 and your DIY amplifier, so that we can have an objective basis for comparison. Like many here, I hope that a few not too complicated modifications will improve the quality and reliability of the Willsenton R300. Looking forward to your next videos :)
Great video again. Thank you for sharing. Good to know what not to buy! 👍
Thanks for your hard work! These videos really help me understand tube amps.
Glad to help!
Great video! I actually have an r300 and is currently enjoying the sound. I am hoping I can implement some tricks/tweeks/fixes from your future videos so that my r300 would sound even better. Keep em coming!
I very much appreciate these videos. You have a gift for explaining all of this; thank you !!
You're very welcome!
Say hi to Dolly for us 😊
As usual in all RUclips videos, the dog steals the show.
LOL Dolly is the best! :)
Ooops! I should have watched a little further, before posting. You did that!
Thank you for doing this. This certainly for me raises some concerns regarding other RUclipsrs validity when praising this amp.
These same folks praised the Reisong A12 and A50 a few years ago. Those turned out to be even more problematic than these are.
Looks like there are some design issues to sort out on the R300, but potential there if they can be fixed. Your DIY amp looks like a really solid design. I bet it sounds really good!
Great stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it
yours is an honest talk
Excellent informative, most of all very interesting 👍 🫶🫶🫶
I’m looking forward to your listening review. Two of the four RUclips reviewers I watched said the amplifier was very speaker dependent with one saying that synergy was the key. I’m using a 16 ohm 97.5 db efficient horn loaded Altec Lansing 846a Valencia’s. Also my hearing drops off at around 11K so these factors might be why I really, really like the sound I’m getting. But if you find this amp can be improved in sound quality and reliability I’m all ears so to speak. 😉🤓 Thanks again for what you do.
I am curious what other tube amps have you compared this one to?
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics Rogue Audio Metis preamp with a solid state McCormack DNA 0.5 amplifier with these speakers. Previously owned a complete Steve Moffitt Theta all tube pre and power amp with stacked QUAD ELS-57 electrostatic loudspeakers back in the early 1980s. The difference I hear when I switched to the R300 from the Rogue/McCormack is an increase in sound stage width and depth, a smoother high end, stronger deep bass (a huge surprise), beautiful holographic like mids and soundstage. What are the chances when you open up your copy of the R300 there are defective parts causing all these issues, or worse a bad design? I trust your judgment. Keep up the good work.
Highly unlikely it's a one off problematic unit. Some of this stuff I am measuring would probably be hard to hear unless you start A-B comparing it to another 300B amp.
Looking forward to seeing underneath were the magic happens. Hope you find the issues this amp is generating.
Excellent professional content, as usual! I was really looking forward to binging on your sleuth job on the Willsenton R300. I am holding my breath as I am contemplating buying one 🙂. Now, I am even more eager to watch your follow-up videos on this R300...when you post them, please let us know what upgrades, if any, might improve its condition...thank you!!
You got a shout-out in Tube Labs latest video #142 where they did your bias board safety mod. They also replaced the bias pots with some plastic ones and I am wondering how robust those will be.
Probably will work fine, those bournes pots are well made.
My interweb guess: if one were to cut open one of the big tin cans at the back of the R300 one might find a much smaller OPT concealed inside. :)
Probably or the issue could be cheap controls with bad connections.
I'm guessing the same.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics when the power drops and interference starts at higher watts. It is usually a bad connection. Sometimes cheap wires will cause it.
We are talking about a REALLY low power amp with ma of current.
@@SkunkieDesignsElectronics so every error is highlighted and more drastic. Bad or just cheap wiring is exaggerated.
Thanks For your honest opinions would it be possible to put an R8 next to your DIY . I Realize the tube comparison would be out of the equation, but it would be interesting to see the graphs and how the two amplifiers differ, I think you've shown graph results for the R8 after you worked on it. just a thought definitely going to be watching this test. thanks .
The R8 is back with it's owner.
FINALLY!!!!... finally a review that confirms exactly what I have been experiencing myself.
And it's about two things.
- The R300 is not a very good amplifier.
- And to what extent are the reviewers on RUclips honest/credible.
But first of all, two thumbs up for this test, well done with a very clear and honest way of comparing.
Now I know that measurements don't say everything.
If you measure the Klipsch La Scala, the graphs are not exactly ideal either, but still, this speaker sounds amazing.
So this test definitely says something, but not everything... for that, you need two ears and the amplifier itself.
And let me tell you, I have (had) both.
Here's a longer response from me, sorry... but maybe it's interesting for everyone who wants to buy an R300.
Sidenote , the following text is based on my setup, with my acoustics and my opinion of what sounds good or not.
First, let me explain what I connected the amplifier to and what I was able to compare it with.
My current speakers are the Klipsch Cornwall 4 and the Klipsch La Scala AL-5.
I was able to directly compare the R300 with the Decware Zen triode, Cayin A300B, and Melody AN300B MAX.
I was looking for a SET 300B amplifier and saw the R300 offered on Marktplaats at an acceptable price. When I picked it up, the amplifier was already playing, and the first thing I noticed was the somewhat dark sound. It's difficult to judge on someone else's system and acoustics, so I just bought it and connected it to my Cornwall 4 speakers at home.
Since I had been listening to the Decware Zen Triode for a while, the difference between these two amplifiers was quite significant.
The R300 sounded big, with much more bass, a very dark and muffled sound, less detail, less lively, and the placement of vocals and instruments was somewhat smeared.
I wasn't impressed.
But it sounded different, suddenly I had a lot of bass... the soundstage was bigger, more flesh on the bones, and at first, I found that quite enjoyable.
However, the longer I had the amplifier, the more I became aware that it just wasn't good. The lack of detail and sparkle, the dark sound became annoying. It just didn't sound good.
Later on, I acquired the Klipsch La Scala AL-5, and this amplifier was a real disaster with these speakers. It seemed like all the shortcomings were even more pronounced with these speakers. Meanwhile, I had bought different small tubes (forgot which ones) that seemed to freshen up the sound slightly, but the improvement was minimal. The amplifier just didn't sound pleasant. At my audio dealer, I was able to try the WE300B tubes, but that made very little difference.
So, I took the R300 with me to my audio dealer to directly compare it with other amplifiers.
First, the Cayin A300B.
An amplifier that is 2.5 times more expensive, that has to be said... but what a difference, the Cayin was clearly the better one.
More life, clearer, more detail...
Then I compared the R300 to the Melody 300B.
An even more expensive amplifier. It costs 4 times as much as the R300, and yet an even bigger difference. Exactly the same as the Cayin, but now even more noticeable. More dynamics, detail, freshness... Music.
For me, it was clear, get rid of that amplifier.
And I found it quite difficult because I knew deep down that someone else will fall into the same trap as I did. Hyped by all the positive reviews on RUclips, you buy it, and once you connect it at home, you scratch your head wondering why on earth these experienced reviewers are so positive about it.
And here I digress a bit, but this video reaffirms what I have been thinking for a while.
I won't mention any reviewers by name, but I have now purchased several products thanks to the very positive reviews I heard on the internet. Such as the Decware Zen triode and recently the R300.
Amplifiers that I wouldn't have bought otherwise. And to be honest, when I picked up the R300 and heard it play, I actually wanted to leave it there. I was really not impressed with what I heard. But in the back of my mind, I still heard all the glowing reviews about this amplifier, which made me ignore my feelings (and ears) and purchased it.
And yes, everyone has different tastes, and every setup is different...
But an underperforming amplifier will not sound good anywhere, and an experienced reviewer who has tested very good equipment will never find a poorly performing amplifier to sound good. In my opinion, this is not at all credible.
I find it difficult to make a definitive statement about this, but let me say it in a very socially responsible way, I find some reviews highly questionable.
Is the R300 worth 1500 euros (that's its new price here)? Not for me.
Nevertheless, you get what you pay for, and if you don't have high expectations, then maybe it can be a decent amplifier for you.
My advice would be to go for a slightly better amplifier like the Cayin, yes... more expensive... But those who are looking for a SET 300B amplifier are usually at a different level of equipment than average and also have different demands for their equipment than average.
Yes. One more disappointed buyer here. Just bought on the reviews from all the popular youtube reviewers. Just doubt they even listened to it.
@@muralimmreddy I know that feelings bro.. so many garbage reviewers out there just to fill there pockets by cheating the public by telling pure lies.
That HF "notch" is probably what's causing the weird squarewave waveform. My guess is, that something in the signal path is acting as a series LC circuit to ground. You might try making a "sniffer," apply an input signal of that frequency, and poke around. Make a magnetic sniffer (a closed loop), not an electric one (a conductive surface), since you'll be looking for a current peak.
Howdy.
Holy Molly. The amount of iron ...
High Regards.
The appearance of the 10KHz squarewave of the DYI amp shouldn't matter, unless you want that elusive "DC to light" freq. response we all yearn for. The first harmonic term in the Fourier series is 30KHz, which speakers can't reproduce & we can't hear. But the waveform from the original amp shows some "weirdness" that might result in IM products or other distortion that might be noticeable. It might be informative to look at that puppy on a spectrum analyzer.
Do you do tube exclusively or you do solid state as well?
Mostly tube right now.
Where would we be without Skunkiiiiiiiiiie !
Can you use your explorer to run frequency and distortion tests on an unwired transformer? It might work to use the output tube pins with the tube removed for primary side access and just the output jacks for the secondary side of the transformer. This would split the transformer oddities from the general circuitry. This would get one closer to understanding what's up.
I don't think it will, there needs to be hundreds of volts at very low current for them to operate.
Makes me very concerned about all of the reviewers that fawn over all of these chinese amps.
I'm pretty sure I know what that's all about.
Wondering if anyone can point me to a 300B DIY build that uses only the best parts? 🤔
"Best parts" can mean a lot of different things. I'm sure you could spend 50K on parts if you were willing to spend that.
Hi. I know there has been too much tiresome arguing and even fierce "defend my ground aggressively battles" concerning the R300 . I promise I will not continue that path. If you feel it is OK, I just have a question out of pure personal curiosity; did you ever try it with no or less global NFB, and did you ever get a sense what was main problem causing weird deformed squre wave responses? Best regards, Magnus
Yup, I tried completely removing it and the distortion went off the chart. Which is weird for a 300B amp, mine has zero negative feedback and doesn't do that. I plan to dive back into it, I just needed a break and want to get some other projects done first.
I think you just put in this company down isn't the first time you put this company down
Just reporting what I find, I didn't cut Reisong any slack either.
What upgrades would you recommend? Or what other 300b tube amp would you recommend is the Yaqin ms300 , any good ? Im trying to find a SET class A 300b tube amp id like to spend about 1500.00$ can u please help me
It's like saying "I want a high performance sports car with 500HP, but I want to pay Honda civic money for it." A really good pair of output transformers for a 300B amp are $1000 and a pair of tubes are $350. You'd be much better off for that price point buying a well made EL34 amp (maybe even used) or something similar, rather than a super budget 300B amp. There are no reasonable mods that will make an R300 a good amp or one that I would own IMHO.