Why be Presbyterian? With Bruce Gore!
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Bruce Gore's channel: / @gorebruce
Bruce Gore is a teacher in the PCUSA and has created hundreds of excellent video lectures that are available on his channel.
Find a moderate Mainline Protestant church to revive:
www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edi...
Join the Reconquista discord: / discord
(Note: PLEASE only join if you are part of one of these mainline denominations: PCUSA, ELCA, UMC, RCA, UCC or the Episcopal Church)
You should make a “History of the (insert denomination) church, I guess” video. That might help us learn more about certain denominations
Maybe, but it would of course be coming from a biased perspective if Redeemed Zoomer made it. Don’t get me wrong, he’s great, but he comes at things from his own perspective (as everyone does). For instance, many people would disagree with the claim that he’s made stating that the Baptist denomination came out of the Anabaptist movement (I haven’t looked into this much, so not sure how it actually is, just stating that there’s disagreement)
@@chessplayer6632yeah, he's wrong about that, even saying in one video that the only Anabaptists today are the Amish. Baptists and Anabaptists have completely different roots
I have the same profile picture on Spotify, lol.
@@MarcelBal15 No, you're wrong. Without the influence of Anabaptism the English Dissenters who escaped to the Netherlands would not have formed their Baptist beliefs. John Symth came in contact with the Mennonites in Amsterdam and then formed his beliefs around adult baptism. It is true that he was also influenced by the Brownists. But Smyth baptized Thomas Helwys, the founder of the first Baptist congregation in Amsterdam and after the return to England in London. Smyth even abandoned the congregation and joined the Mennonites. The two movements are tied together.
This is a wonderful idea!!
Yo haven’t seen the vid yet but just wanted to say you’re really an inspiration to me as a young Christian. I started studying theology because of you. You have helped me walk closer to The Lord. Also your growth on RUclips is incredible going up thousands daily. I pray your ministry would spread my bother!
Thank you, God bless!
Happy Friday Zoomer! You’re awesome. I attended worship last Sunday for the first time in years. In part thanks to you. Huge theology nerd here and I appreciate all that I’ve learned from you. Again, you’re awesome man. Have a great weekend. To you and everyone else here: Soli Deo Gloria!
What a lovely, encouraging comment! God's very best to you and yours as well.
Honestly, this interview was great. This really brought me insight on how the Presbyterian church works.
Bruce gore is the man denominations aside a brother in Christ I have been blessed by his teaching. Thank u brother Bruce. Praise God
Man, Bruce is such a legend. I hope this video is a gateway for people discovering his content.
As a fellow Presbyterian and Spokanite, I loved this conversation with Bruce Gore!
You’re from Spokane?? Me too!
washingtonians on top!!!!!!
Bruce is a great teacher. Good to see you touching base with him. I shared one of your videos with him a few weeks ago due to the PCUSA connection.
Thank you so much for having Bruce on!!!!!✝️👍
ive been loving your content recently! keep it up. it’s a really interesting watch for someone who will be and always will be agnostic.
U guys are awesome! Thanks for your work Bruce Gore and thanks Redeemed Zoomer for bringing him on!
Recently made it through lecture 36 of Bruce Gore’s church history series! Excited to watch this interview!
I love Bruce Gore. I'm not a Presbyterian or Reformed, but I continually watch all his Church History You-Tube Videos. I think that he's an extremely passionate and competent teacher.
This was a great interview! As a evangelical would like to thank you by showing me protestant history and how it can go back to the church fathers, I never knew our lore can go so deep. Ngl it would be cool if u had a interview with inspiringphilosophy about science and the bible.
Great interview. Learned quite a bit. Thank you 🙏🏿
Hello brother...just wanted to stop by and say I thank the Lord for your work and ministry here on RUclips. If I can encourage you today, the treasures you are laying up here on earth will go on for eternity. Have a great weekend.
Thank you, God bless!
Having left the denomination after serving over 30 years as a pastor and member of Presbytery Council (my church left first) I can only say "Do not be unequally yoked." To be evangelical in the PCUSA today must be beyond grief.
I can already tell this interview is going to be bloody.
great video!
Hey you should put these interviews in a playlist! Cool stuff
I love Bruce's videos
This was a W convo
I was just thinking today you should do a collab after listening to some exposition on Isaiah... and lo, behold. Most based Presbyterian RUclipsr interview ever in my (not so humble) opinion.
The Gospel is neither liberal nor conservative. A confessional church is hopefully rooted in the living word.
Applause for your Pastor who seems to hold a grounded openness.
Capitalize - Living Word.
Your East Coast accent gets me every time. 😂
This was really interesting :) So cool to listen to these interviews! I do have a question -- is the Presbyterian denomination and PCUSA the same thing, just different names? I've always been a tad confused about what PCUSA is, exactly😵💫!
The Presbyterian Church USA is the largest Presbyterian denomination in the United States. It is historic, a so-called mainline denomination, theologically modernist, and politically left. There are other Presbyterian denominations in the U.S., the largest of these is the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA). I'm a candidate for ordination in another one, the Covenant Order of Evangelical Presbyterians (ECO), which is the most recent break away from the PCUSA. I Hope this helps.
@@jameswilson5621 Thank you! So PCUSA is just the shortened form for "Presbyterian Church USA", which itself is shortened to just Presbyterian. That makes sense! Thank you :D
I love Bruce Gore’s videos and watch them regularly. He’s a very gifted teacher. A while ago I saw that he had mentioned that he was a part of the PCUSA and I was very shocked because to me he came across very conservative in his viewpoints. That is until I watched his video on 1 Timothy and found out that he is okay with women pastors…
nonetheless I still watch his other videos and highly recommend them (just avoid 1 Timothy).
Theological conservatives in the PCUSA like him and me exist! And we ain't going anywhere
@@redeemedzoomer6053 Are theological conservatives a minority in your church? How about your pastor?
@@HS76413 not at mine, no. My pastor is a firm gospel-believer even if he’s a bit more liberal on some political issues
Any opinions on Soren Kierkegaard?
Can you make a video talking about the Catholic groups? Like the Franciscans, Dominicans, Redemptors, Carmelitas and Heralds of the gospel
Who is Bruce Gore? I’m a Baptist so I don’t really know who he is.
He has a RUclips channel. Check it out. I'm also a Baptist in a sense. (I agree on a lot with NIFB but not totally with calling/prayer/asking for eternal salvation and definitely not reprobate doctrine) He teaches a lot and goes in-depth. I appreciate his teachings. His RUclips channel is called Bruce Gore. His series on revelation in space and time is incredible and led me to being a partial preterist. I love the video he did on a preterist approach to Revelation.
He has a series of Church history.
@@MrBeastjebuzif you take those things away from NIFB, that would make you IFB, yes?
@@No_auto_toon yes, but I am against Dispensationalism. I think IFB teaches dispensationalism. I'm not replacement theology, I'm more new covenant theology. I like a lot of NIFB teachings other than the reprobate doctrine and the Romans 10 evangelistic calling method saying we must call upon His name in prayer to be saved. I think once we have faith in the correct Lord Christ Jesus we have access to His grace and are saved instantly. Romans 5:1-2. I don't think if someone thinks after they believe the gospel they have to call they are unsaved. I don't think it affects your salvation. I think it can confuse ppl. I think the calling for salvation is for temporal deliverance. It says in Romans 10:14-15 How can they call on whom they have not believed? The context for calling is calling to be saved on Earth, they first have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ then they can call on Him to be saved /protected on Earth.
Were the churches closed during the Black Plague years?
has the synod or general assembly had anything to say about reconquesta?
Hasn’t met since the movement started in 2023
I am a fellow Spokanite and have been helped by Bruce's lectures in church history. I think the accusation against dispensationalists, that they aren't concerned for the future because the rapture will happen at any time is kind of weak. Aren't we to be citizens of heaven and not of this world? No matter what your eschatology is you only have 70 or 80 good years on this earth, even if the rapture doesn't happen in your lifetime, every day is a gift from God and He may choose to "rapture" you without any warning, as he did my father last year. So every Christian should live that immediacy in the back of their mind as an incentive to do the work of today.
A little bit off topic, but I really want to know your opinion on Mike Winger, if you know who that is.
I like him! Love his charitable, but firm critiques of Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnessism
@@redeemedzoomer6053 So it's not a problem that he is Charismatic, which is basically Pentecostal?
@@Sviatoslav_The_Brave I don’t like his tradition but as far as his tradition goes, he’s okay
@@redeemedzoomer6053 Got it, thanks for the answer. God bless!
Christian denominations that side with Republicans can you do a video on that? ✝️🇺🇸
Video idea if you haven't already done one like it: why I didn't become a member of the clergy
hey redeemed zoomer, it is the right thing to do to reclaim our traditions and spaces, and you are a great fellow. I had a thought though about the root cause of protestantism splitting and ending up in weird places, some an improvement in some theological ways over the Catholic Church, many losing coherence and sanity as they get lost on trivia and debates- often unaware that their rediscoveries or ideas are old heresies long ago tackled.
When Luther was offended by Catholicism, it was because he felt the popes were innovating without the authority or tradition to do so. Dispensations, compromises, cozying up to emperors, departing from things that a century before they mandated to believe.
Imagine if Luther had been aware how much of the innovation he disliked was down to the fact that the Catholics had themselves strayed away, wouldn’t the solution have been to undo the damage to the church rather than split off? Or at least split off with the aim of recapturing the church as a definite goal. But then…. If you go back further, wouldn’t a simple rejection of “filoque” being added unilaterally by the pope, a rejection of the pope’s assertion of authority in selecting (as opposes to having veto), unreasonable celibacy… all of that where the catholics departed from orthodox, have been a better idea?
Why do I mention Orthodox? Because they have priests that marry, they have a more bishop-level independent way of agreeing the right responses to change, they have literally, an independence from authority when it matters- namely the autocephalous option whenever they are under pressure. Instead of bowing to the pressure, they re-emerge. They even kept their faith under Stalin and emerged re-affirmed during the Great Patriotic War. Our protestant churches, by contrast can’t even stand up to drag queens and unhinged liberal university students.
I guess what I’m saying is, sincerity doesn’t make up for the disruption and disconnection of revivalism and charismatic based movements.
Have another think about whether protestantism should now build on what it has gained, but by moving closer to orthodoxy, rather than further away through mere reason and introspection.
Not re-invent the wheel that was re-invented I guess.
Appreciate what you're saying here. Some brief responses of mine as a random person in the comments, for what it's worth, regarding Luther:
_"Imagine if Luther had been aware how much of the innovation he disliked was down to the fact that the Catholics had themselves strayed away"_
This was exactly what Luther was aware of, and precisely what his point was.
_"wouldn’t the solution have been to undo the damage to the church"_
Again, this is exactly what Luther's solution was. Luther (and, indeed, Lutherans today) merely consider themselves to be the rightful continuation of the Catholic Church, cleansed of impurities (i.e. 'undoing the damage')
_"rather than split off"_
Luther was excommunicated by the Catholic Church, he did not 'split off'
_"Or at least split off with the aim of recapturing the church as a definite goal."_
Again, that is indeed the ultimate aim of Luther and the Protestant Reformers, in a sense.
_"[The Orthodox] even kept their faith under Stalin and emerged re-affirmed during the Great Patriotic War. Our protestant churches, by contrast can’t even stand up to drag queens and unhinged liberal university students."_
Respectfully, this is not an even judgement of the situation. While it is, of course, true that the Orthodox suffered and endured persecution, and true that there are modern Protestant churches endorsing perversion, it is equally true that there are Orthodox churches endorsing LGBTQ issues and perversions, and Protestants (individuals and churches) who suffered horribly under Stalin (and other 20th Century regimes), going to gulags/concentration camps, torture and/or death. It goes both ways. You'd have to turn a blind eye to one or skew the situation entirely to end up with the scenario you describe above.
*No matter what denomination someone is affiliated with, if they don't see the supernatural changes in their bible they're in for a terrible dissapointed at the Gate!*
My guy did they ban you on IG?
Wait nvm
Huh. You're a pretty good looking guy.
Why be whole?
Kneel to trace picture.
G is an incomplete whole with one square angle drawn in Earth.
O is a whole measure.
D is a split whole with two square angles drawn in Earth.
Sacrificed, Holy measured.
You look like Ben Shapiro if he was a Christian zoomer lol. (No offense, you are obviously not a grifter though so I respect that)
Why aren’t you a Catholic?
FIRST
no
@@Edgar_Hoods Sorry. I didn't refresh.
I'm not a Calvinist though and do not think it's true. Can I still be Presbyterian?
you could, yea! As long as you affirm other things like Infant Baptism, the spiritual presence of Christ in the Lord's Supper, and don't believe in the rapture
@@redeemedzoomer6053 I guess I do not know if infant baptism is true or not. I do not think it is, but even if I disagree I would still have no issue in baptizing infants since it's done with a heart and prayer to keep them in the Lord. Certainly wouldn't be dogmatic on being against it and would put it in I do not know or I don't think its true but here is why and I do not think it's a sin to do.
The Methodists (conservative ones that is) are pretty similar to Presbyterians on many things except soteriology. There is even the Cumberland Presbyterian Church who is not Calvinistic. However, I believe non Calvinists can’t really be truly reformed, like how reformed baptists aren’t truly reformed. However, being truly reformed isn’t important. Being United to Christ is.
Also remember that the children of believers are baptized because they are born into the church, citizens of God's kingdom. Think of it as though they are not presented with the decision of converting to Christianity as they grow but instead with the choice to leave it.
@@wesleydahar7797 hmmm. I've been told the opposite that God is does not have grandchildren so it has to be their choice to believe and accept Christ on their own volition rather then have parents believe on their behalf. That said it can happen as early as whenever they can understand who Jesus is so say preschool vs a baby who is incapable of knowing who Jesus is. I also find it funny that Zoomer says in the video describing the best of the traditions being it's great that Baptist's focus on a personal relationship with Christ which is why they do not baptize infants. But in his next video says it is to individualistic and potentially harmful. Not saying out of Spite I just thought it was funny. But I do get the idea of leaving so to speak, believing in God introduced since little.
And yet Calvin himself abused the power he gained thru the state and persecuted other Christians who dared to disagree with him!
And ??
Baptising babies isnt kosher. How can a baby be a believer? Believe and be baptized.
The children of believers are born into the church and the kingdom of God. They are not presented with the choice of converting to Christianity as they grow, but the choice to leave it. I'm not saying they are saved by default, but aside from historical and biblical precedent, it is also a picture of God saving us while we were still dead in our sins and helpless to even repent or believe on our own. This is the pattern of all scripture, God always makes the first move, he called Abraham, Israel, and the disciples, for example. But I suppose you probably don't believe that it is God who softens the heart and who, by the power of the Holy Spirit, convicts new believers so that they can repent and believe in the first place. You're missing out on a beautiful aspect of God's love, if you suppose that we are able to repent while we are yet enemies of God while God is powerless to save us without our approval.
@@wesleydahar7797 babies can't repent and believe. Very simple. God softens our hearts, yes. But its by understanding believing in Christ via the Gospel that one is saved. Repent and Believe. Babies can't repent and believe. Baptism by immersion, represents going into the grave and rising to new life in Christ. Regeneration. Dedicating children is a biblical principal.
Reformed theology is Catholic light. We are saved by grace through faith. Covenant theology is unbiblical. It's religious traditions of men who can't understand the Gospel. They try to enslave people back under the law. They talk a good game. Five Solas. But revert back to the law.
@@mjack3521 Dedicating babies is not in the Bible, much less a sacrament instituted by Christ. If God is the author of salvation who has mercy on who he will have mercy, can he not also save babies who have died before professing faith? You are free to open that can of worms, but I think you'll have a harder time stomaching your own conclusions.
@@mjack3521 Calvinism is not legalism. Of all the strawman arguments out there, I've never heard that one. At least try something less obviously ridiculous like "Calvinism says that God is responsible for the sins of the unsaved" or something. I can't even fathom how you think Calvinism is legalism. The former is a doctrine about the nature of man and mechanics of salvation, while the latter is a heresy which falsely claims that man is saved by his own righteousness in the sight of God.
@@wesleydahar7797 Christ was dedicated as a baby and baptised as an adult. Religion wants to burn people at the stake for disagreement of their catholic man made traditions.
So many denominations, why don’t we just follow the LORD and do His will? ✝️✝️✝️
Ja good idea but what should we focus on as a church? Evangelism, trying to understand the nature of God, building a physical kingdom, should we be more naturalistic or is there some other way that best worships God? How should we perform his sacraments? In what way would the Lord want us to structure the church before he comes back.
These are but a handful of ways churches differ let alone when heresies manifest.
@@ChristianEphraimson Yeah, with the LORD it’s a personal relationship, God tells different people to do different things, but all Christians are united through Jesus Christ ✝️✝️✝️
_"So many denominations, why don’t we just follow the LORD and do His will?"_
^ Because this is, itself, essentially a denominational statement.
@@Mic1904 How though, just follow GOD.
@@RandomInternetGuy11 That is *also* essentially a denominational statement. There's nothing you can say here that doesn't function as a statement of belief that marks you out for what you specifically believe is the essential of the Gospel and what, in your view (perhaps correctly!), a Christian is. That's what every denomination on earth is doing.
Covenant theology isn't biblical. Bringing the law into the new covenant is legalism and blinds people to the glory of Christ. Whole book of Galatians is written to counter adding law to the Gospel. Calvin had people burnt at the stake. Is that Love?
You don't seem to understand covenant theology. Covenant theology is the study of God's relationships with his creation through the various covenants He has made. Just skimming the Wikipedia article is enough to see that. The covenant of works was instituted with all mankind through Adam, and the covenant of grace was instituted immediately after the fall. If you truly believe that covenant theology is legalism in any form, then you have completely misunderstood one or both of those concepts.
Also, don't you realize that it is only because Christ kept the law perfectly on our behalf that we can be saved? Without satisfaction of God's justice, there can be no forgiveness. Those who depend on their own works fall short, and those who depend on Christ's works are righteous in the sight of God.
Calvin argued against that person being burned. He did however believe they should be executed for heresy. You can read all of this online if you are really interested in truth. Scorners and scoffers are condemned in the Psalms, never resort to ridicule or slander.
@@wesleydahar7797 so he believed they should be executed. Love? Catholic light. Just like their followers today. Religion is a veil that blinds the glory of Christ.
@@wesleydahar7797 Covenant Theology recognizes the eternal, unchanging nature of God's moral law.
The law is still binding and we are still obligated to it. THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. LEGALISM.
Are you guys more neo Orthodox since you are bit more progressive then the fundamentalist
You could say that, yea
@@redeemedzoomer6053 so you would be sympathetic to Karl Barth or Friedrich Schleiermacher
@@gabrielbridges9709 Barth more so, both are problematic. Barth has some really great ideas and some really bad ideas. I’d be more orthodox than Barth for sure
@@redeemedzoomer6053 cool, I’m a big fan of Bruce gore and his series on the history of Gods people, him and Ryan reeves videos I’ve watched like 5 times over each since my work has a lot of driving involved in it. It does seem that these guys are a little on the neo orthodox side rather then fundamentalist but they do a pretty unbiased and charitable job with church history.
No, these two are Trump demons. They know that ABBA-DON Trump is the RED DRAGON. The "new" Nero.