Hopefully you all enjoy the video and find it informative. If you're new to my videos and you'd like to get a good foundation in game as quickly as possible, check out this FREE program: toddwinnergame.com
I'm impressed with how you're able to respond in a eloquent way without attacking him personally. I have 0 patience with the criticism against self development it's the same trite, ignorant points and even a educated psychologist is making the same ridicuolous points. People really think you're supposed to just blindly and serendipitously know how to date women and if you consciously put any thought into it you're being manipulative and psychopathic it's insane
Isn't the issue that the red pilled men (e.g. me) can't find someone they are attracted to? I wish there was more content on how to find non-visual things attractive. I mean someone has to date the less attractive women or?
I get it. Some of these clips are pretty old. You’re right he doesn’t have a lot of personal experience in this arena. But there are definitely a lot of guys who can get girls with little to no effort. See any guy 6 ft or taller in decent, not even great, shape with a six figure job in a big city. That’s a lot more than five percent of the population, or at least it seems like it having lived in Chicago for 15 years. Now do Hoe Math please…
A list celebrities and A list athletes you mentioned who get all the women are biologically girls. Please get their gender right if you think they're men you gotta transvestigate.
Its crazy to actually run across an internet guru that isn't a con artist. You helped me meet my wife and we're gonna have a beautiful baby next year. love you man. So much gratitude for you.
@@ToddVDating hey Todd, is there a chance for you to make an in depth video about EU women vs NA women in terms of what they like/respond to, thanks a bunch!
The problem with JP’s dating advice is that it comes from a guy who’s been with only one girl his entire life. 99% of guys aren’t going to be married to and have a family with the first crush they ever have. The vast majority of us have had more romantic partners than him. He’s never lived the experience of having to compete with hundreds to thousands of other men for just one girl.
This so much, Jp is one of the if not the man I admire the most, but his dating advise is just so out of touch with reality, and I don’t blame him because of this, he can’t understand something no he has not experienced himself.
he sounds like a unicorn guy, and he wants to brainwash more community to follow his traditional mindset. But we all know once feminism is here, its no turning back unless the whole system collapses and women finally realize they need men not simps
As I watch this enthralling video, it resurrects the painful memories of my recent breakup-a relationship of 4 years that ended just three months ago. The woman who meant everything to me decided to leave, plunging me into a vortex of heartache. Despite my desperate attempts to reconcile, I find myself trapped in a cycle of frustration and longing, unable to envision a life without her. Despite my efforts to move forward, I find solace in expressing my lingering affection for her here.
The process of releasing a loved one can be an uphill battle. I can relate, having navigated a similar journey when my 6-year relationship dissolved. Despite the heartache, I refused to relinquish hope and embarked on a quest to win him back. Turning to a spiritual counselor for assistance, I found guidance that ultimately led to our reconciliation.
@@trafford-v9eHey brother, I feel your pain. So maybe take a little solace knowing you’re definitely not alone. A girl a met through Daygame almost 3 years ago ended our relationship back in October. She was everything to me. I loved everything about our cosmic connection and now I’m back to square one. Hopefully with some action taking and letting ourselves heal we can push forward to a new chapter where we can have that again.
The worst part is that hes so invested in being a guru, he can't just be honest and say: "I really don't have that much experience on this subject." Old married guys have been out of the game for so long, its a blind spot for them.
I believe it’s just an ego thing for him to speak on everything even if he has little experience on the subject. When guys see any famous person with a PHD guys will eat up anything the person says.
Ive always seen him as being professionally deformed because of his career as a teacher and a clinical psychologist. That all came way before his internet persona. Just think about it, he has spent 20+ years talking to younger people from the perspective of an authority. That surely moldes you in a way.
He naturally tries to be helpful and interviewers get him flowing and use flattery (eg "young men depend on you") then they direct him out his wheelhouse and get him to make mistakes. He really should be more wary of their traps. Silly JP.
I do get what he's saying to a certain extent - if you're having sex with a lot of women, chances are a significant percentage of those women will end up catching feelings and you have to be the one to break their hearts and some guys will definitely become numb to that to the extent they might not consider others' feelings. I don't think that makes you a psychopath as there are still ethical ways to casually date through basic human decency and honest communication.
Not inherently, but there are a lot of dudes out there who are basically taking the lesson that most women are expendable and not worth but so much of their time. The very same dudes reveling, or aiming to revel, in sexual promiscuity are the same dudes that look down on a lot of these women as "for the streets" for giving it up so easily. It's ok to be a man-whore as far as I'm concerned, but acting as if doing so plays zero role in spreading hookup culture on both sides is just delusional. Kind of impossible to have an abundance of women to enjoy the sexual company of without there actually being an abundance of women that are about that life. It takes two to tango. Not to mention the fact that promiscuity is inherently less focused on building long-lasting relationships, and JP's larger point is that the latter is more fulfilling yet so much of PUA encourages against it. Todd doesn't focus on manipulation but there's a fair amount of PUA that do...or at the very least, dudes that get that kind of takeaway from it.
Men dressing up nice to attract a woman that is wearing provocative clothing, fake hair, fake lashes, enhanced body parts, and 3 layers of makeup is considered manipulative on the man's part?
Man that’s why I don’t watch JP videos lmao. JP is a smart guy but when it comes to dating and improving your life it seems like he just started knowing about those 2 subjects lol.
You nailed it, every single point. As a huge JP fan I had watched all of those clips before and thought the exact same things you mentioned. JP changed my life as much as you did. But this just goes to show that even the smartest people can’t get everything right, so you always have to think critically about what anybody says. Todd is the GOAT btw.
Jordan Peterson is a boomer grifter who masks incompetency with overly verbose eloquence. He unironically claims that Millennials/Gen Z have more resources than Boomers for how it makes 'zero sense' why people have children later in life in today's world.
@@PUARockstar Jordan Peterson is a BB grifter who masks incompetency with overly verbose eloquence. He unironically claims that Millennials/Gen Z have more resources than BB for how it makes 'zero sense' why people have children later in life in today's world.
Todd V is one of the only people in the world who has the courage (i.e., balls) to publicly defend pick-up artists from a moral/ethical perspective. And he does it really well.
What's ironic about peacocking is that JP currently wears a vibrant yellow suit with his own signature on it. And on the subject of manipulation, he likes to tell people to get over their contempt for sales if they want to make money, as long as they do it ethically. What about letting go of your contempt for game to get girls, as long as you do it ethically...
I really appreciate how good of an envoy you are for the PUA community. You're very respectful, and your points are sharp. These are skills that all young men should learn (or be taught). IMO PU artistry is just learning how to talk to women so that they find you interesting enough to sleep with. That takes the pressure off, and then young men can learn how to be someone that can have a lasting relationship, which is a phase beyond PU.
With divorce rate at %56 in the USA one must really be with various people to settle with one. I agree %100 with Todd. This channel is realistic. Believe me when I say I’m 53 year old divorced guy. I’m brushing my skills here; and nothing has changed with courting.
Where are you getting your data for divorce rates? I've seen them peak decades ago and have remained around 40% for a long time now. Probably declining even further as marriage becomes less common.
@@jfkst1let's not forget that most divorces are initiated by women. most likely because they lost all respect and attraction towards their man because respect and attraction are key ingredients in intimate relationships.
I would suggest to all you boys out there to read "No more Mr. Nice guy". You will understand what it is to be a man and will make you even more attractive. Females should read it, too
The thing about "game" is that there is many different styles of game. Some people teach you to strictly go off a script that you repeat to hundreds. Others teach you good conversation starters and a general outlook on how to connect. The more sleasy types of game only really work on young, insecure women. As women get approached more they start to see through that stuff. But when you just learn to connect with women, its not something that they see as manipulative, they just see that you have good universal communication skills
Didn't game since 3-4 years since i was with a girl and last night there were 2 girl sitting together in a bar, I had high approch anxiety but I went anyways after hyping myself up for 30 mins and spent the rest of the night with them. Teasing, disqualifying etc. WOrked so well I landed a solid number from that 18 years old cute girl, she even texted me this morning to make plans for this week. Really good feeling.
Having more sex, getting better with women, working on my game has made me a happier man not a bitter psychopath. Todd is 100% correct JP in this instance is not.
Dr Peterson got married at the ripe of age of 27 and has been married since 1989. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned his lack of experience on this topic. Him shaming pickup is like a trust fund baby calling out labor workers for being sweaty after a long day's work. And "outdated" is definitly another one of his problems, clearly he's skimmed over The Game and seen a couple of episodes from Mystery's reality show from over 20 years ago. He would benifit from a refresh on what pickup and dating look like in 2023 and it's not like there's a shortage of material out there as I'm sure your 263K subs would agree
I think the psychopath thing is more about how you view the woman. I don't know if that is what Dr. Peterson means, but at some point when I got better with women using some of your techniques, during the RSD era, I knew exactly what to say and to do to get laid. I just needed the woman to jump through my hoops. I watched an infield video of you sitting in a café with a "target" breaking down her body language, responses using techniques. It made me feel very uncomfortable and I took a hard look at myself. If the woman becomes a target or a tool, on which you just have to press the right button, in order to get what you want, you are a psychopath. Make no mistake!
I’d be interested to see Todd do more take downs of common but bad advice, with infield examples I constantly here, “Don’t pursue, work on yourself and girls will come” “You can’t force attraction, if she’s not interested right away move on” “Don’t be direct when she doesn’t know you, become friends first”
If you constantly hear this stuff then you're listening to the wrong people. Second and third points are complete garbage, they're so wrong that they're not even worth addressing. As for the first, working on yourself is important, where a lot of guys go wrong is thinking that by doing better in life the universe will somehow magically provide them with women. That's obviously a dumb way to think but it's worth getting a good life for its own sake, just because you can be a slob and get girls doesn't mean it's a good idea. Women should be an addition to your life, not the focus of it.
Jordan Peterson is on point analyzing a lot of trends that affect mating. You give great advice on pulling women for dating. There is a difference. Nearly all women respond to game, but promiscuous women respond faster (obviously). The #1 economic and personal threat to a Western male is divorce. Likelihood of divorce skyrockets when marrying a woman with a history of promiscuity. Attracting and picking a life partner is very different from getting a girlfriend for the weekend or the year.
Unless you live in a closed religious community, most men in the 21st century absolutely need experience to either pick a life partner (which sounds gay asf) or a girl for the weekend.
@@ivanrodriguez4754 Experience is not required. For men it's not necessary to be a good husband. For women, too much experience is strongly correlated with an extremely high divorce rate (over 3 previous partners is a no-go). It's not gay to want someone who will be a partner (soulmate, whatever) for life instead of a wife who will divorce when she feels like it. We obviously us the word differently, since I'm heterosexual and definitely not liberal.
@hammerfist8763 Once again, brother, idk how old you are, but if you are a man who lives in a first world country that allows divorce between the ages of 18-45 you're going to get absolutely dog walked by women if you can't seduce them mentally and physically which most men can not do without experience.
I can talk from my own experience. I used to be a little more toxic with my partners when I was really insecure, I would be really jealous and would get really explosive on arguments because of the lear of losing the "only" person that felt attracted to me. After a couple of years is the completely different side. I can't care less if my gf wants to leave, I have options.
"I can't care less if my gf wants to leave, I have options." Tbf that's exactly the kind of mentality JP is criticizing. If you're seeing a relationship as expendable then you're all the more likely to not invest your time and energy in nurturing its longevity...especially a guy that takes the wrong lesson from people like Todd. Granted, to be abundantly clear, I agree with Todd that it's better for a man to make an active choice about who he wants to spend his life with than to settle for less from the standpoint of scarcity. But nonetheless, there's a fine line between adundance reaching the point of being dismissive of a woman over every little trangression that a man convinces himself he doesn't have to put up with simply because he has options.
Man, at this point i watch your videos just for fun and cause i like you. You helped me a lot with your tips on dating and the last few girls i had a relationship were amazing, current with a lovely girl. Love you my man, you deserve the best in life. Brazilian boy here
That last clip was unfair. It was taken from his days as a professor. The pickup community may have evolved, but he did describe it accurately at the time.
Few thoughts: firstly, when talking about this subject, it important to not make absolute statements and I respect Todd for being very nuanced in his explanations which seem like a very good attempt to reflect reality in the most objective way possible. However, I believe the abundance in dating (regardless of gender or method of attaining it) really made people less willing to invest in a relationship with one person. I would never think it psychopathic or pathological, but definitely less personal. Its simply more pragmatic and easier to replace than try to fix existing relationship. Then there's an ego boost which people find it difficult to control. Again not to say that everyone has an overblown self worth but experience of abundance (even fake virtual) evidently makes people more narcissistic and self absorbed and less willing to commit or work through challenges in relationships. On a bright side dating skills are super transferable so being better at is a shortcut to success in career, social life and overall wellbeing. That's what JP talks about - mental health. Its a very well known truth in dating community that even a few approches a day can lift your mood and increase your mental health - I guess JP is not allowed to say it 😂
I disagree, most people in that position would soon realize that "replacing instead of trying to "fix" existing relationships isn't going to get them what they want. These men have an abundance of sexual options, so they have no need to look for it, but that won't supply them with the connection they also need, and after swithcing a few times they will realize that. It is a simple case of Maslow's pyramid. After they get the hornyness satisfied, and the self-esteem of being able to get laid, they will move on to trying to fullfill their higher needs, that's how growth works.
Presumption in the first point is that working through a relationship is more important and better than moving onto the next one. I would generally say yes, but not necessarly.
There is a Book called Atomic attraction that says the same thing, too. That you have to be machiovelian to be very sucessful with women. It does have insights on how to pass relationship shit tests. Or how to not be so needy. It doesnt really teach you anything about game, just kinda how to react to women. For example, if you wanted to get a woman back in your life, you have to go "no contact." And it does work. It does get the woman to forget about you, and they build this different outlook on you over time. But in my experience, this has worked, but i always had to reach out to them. They will never reach out to you. Because its the man's job to make the first move.
What I’ve liked about your videos and your teachings is that you give the guy that doesn’t have the ability to meet girls tools to do so the same skills in pick up can be applied to any social interaction
I studied psychology (not at all on his level) and he is very wrong about dating a lot of the time. The problem with him is his faszination with psycho-analysis and Jung - which has nothing to do with factual scientific truth. He is also very right on some topics - so he speaks convinced on topics, he is not very well informed on. Also I have to thank you. I am kinda succesfull with women now, and I was not 10 years ago. Your videos were the ones I always went back to. Thanks man.
The last clip was from the early 2000s Peterson was criticizing old school PUA s like Mystery, can lines, peacocking, routines etc, not today's PUA techniques, the industry has evolved in the past 20yrs, I agree with your comments from the first clip though.
Todd! As a follower of you (very thankful) and JP follower, I would say maybe you can approach JP on his social media and ask for a podcast together? I definitely defend "game" when it comes to personal development, but I also understand Dr. Peterson latest position in this regard (I don't agree with him on 08:39 for example, but that is several years ago - maybe he changed his mind as he was clearly talking about the Mystery Method). It would be awesome to have you both in a conversation in regards to this whole topic!
Would love to see you two in a conversation together. Given his stance on the education system, it'd be interesting to see someone like him who's successful in spite of said system talk to someone who's successful in parallel to said system. Also a symbolic PhD in Game has far more philosophy and elasticity of mind vs most other modern so-called PhDs
Should definitely have some sort of debate about this with JBP, Todd. You've been a tremendous help to a lot of men, without "manipulative psychopathy" or whatever other stuff he claims. Keep it up.
Totally agree. But please tone down the camera clicking sound effect - I am trying to listen to what Todd is saying and it's totally distracting. JP should only talk about psychology. If he talks about religion or dating it's just nonsense.
This was such a great video. If it wasn't for game and pick up I would have never met my wife. I think if more red pill guys did game they would stop being red pill. It made me a better person.
Right Todd, here's the difference: Only those who are mature and of a good character and willing to be grow benefit from many relationships. That includes you, but that doesn't encompass everyone. Those who are immature and of a low calibre have more baggage from dating, that includes hook-ups, so I feel that really needs to be emphasised. So no, getting run through sexually is not better for your relationship toolbox, if you're a shallow, immature person. A mature person will get from 3 relationship what it would takes others 15 or so relationships.
7:38 appreciate Todd for the skills he helped me develop. Appreciate JBP for the man he helped me become. It’s a complicated issue & comes down to questions about the ends of human sexuality & what’s considered “good” for the human person. 7:38 it’s worth noting that Todd compares sex & relationships to consuming sushi. The assessment comes down to the individual “consumer’s” experience/satisfaction. Not the experience of both human partners moving towards their flourishing. My assessment here is a bit unfair to Todd as he’d be quick to say he’d want both parties to enjoy the experience. Which moves us into his claim about becoming good in relationships by having many of them. To me, this sounds like the Mark Twain quote “I’m great at quitting smoking, I’ve done it hundreds of times.” It kind of misses the point/end of a relationship. So the underlying question is what’s the ultimate purpose of a male-female relationship? If it’s marriage family & life long companionship based on a metaphysics of complementary sexual natures, then by default having had many is a strike against that claim. If a relationship is just an arrangement where 2 people respectfully agree to engage in a temporary monogamous (non childbearing) sex with limited emotional commitment (which I freely do admit can include many positive aspects short of lifelong commitment & child rearing) then I’m sure Todd’s become a ‘pro’ at these types of relationships. Overall, would love to see these 2 talk as I do think it’s complicated. By my lights, The “pick up artist/community” qua “pick up” can be used as instrumental and manipulative, if the end goal is to manipulate women into having sex with no intention of pursuing a ‘relationship’ and that intention is left ambiguous or deceptively obfuscated. That said, following PUAs (including Todd) back in the day, gave me some needed skills, and yes, routines that empowered me when engaging with women. Heck, I gave my now wife a cube test on the first date. But it was lessons from JDP (and my faith) that called me to adopt responsibility and seek out marriage and virtue development. As far as the instrumental use of language critique: this gets us into ethical considerations regarding when, if ever, humans can be treated as means rather than ends. And my own short answer would be when it’s in the confines of a preset mutually beneficial arrangement, but generally, humans should be treated as ends whenever possible. It’s ok for me to tell the waiter at a restaurant get me this or that. I can even do that (and allow myself to be used) in a mutually beneficial mutually subservient marriage context where we both trust the other to be directing what’s good for the marriage/family as a whole. Sometimes my wife just says honey go do x, but that’s ok bc of the background of trust and commitment to each others flourishing and the family’s betterment. Anyways just my thoughts.
I'm relieved you're covering this. Peterson's made himself look like a total idiot in this specific regard, it's literally misinformation. Well done keep it up Todd!
i think it’s a stretch to call him a total idiot. maybe you hold him to such high expectations because of his persona as an intellectual. He isn’t right about everything, no one is. Doesn’t mean he’s an idiot.
Also- I've been told it's also because Petersen IS FROM A BABY BOOMER generation- Things were totally different then - men meet their wives through friends mostly or in Petersens case - in his childhood. But it's becoming rarer to find a wife compared to before as because in Petersens time -; women used to judge a man mostly by his intellect /looks. Now intellectual ability is at a lower tier.
@@kenlee-97 I'm a bit older than him. I remember how different things were and very early on realised and started to closely monitor the changes and the reasons for them. Party because I was an adman like Don Draper. My father met my mother in Bermuda. She was an english teacher he was a hotel trainee. He spoke six languages was good looking and hard working. He had the best game I've ever seen period. I won't tell you about his father because nobody would believe me. Don't ask.
To me gaming is okay if the goal is just to get into a relationship. If your goal is just to bang women then that doesn't feel right to me. People with unresolved issues can have an addiction to casual sex and treat other people as sex objects to fill an emotional void (especially cluster B personality disorders). Also, I don't agree with Todd's sushi example... you can easily become a sushi snob. Same with people that dedicate their lives to trying out every different type of wine, they become wine snobs. Relationship variety shouldn't be seen as this exotic luxury that is to be mastered by the afocianado, that's gross. A stoic mindset is that you can put in some effort and reach out for your desire, but not overreach so that you fall over. In other words, it's alright to pick and choose a little, but to make it your quest to try out as many women as possible before settling down misses the whole point. It also hints towards fear of commitment and attachment issues. Also, is having 20 1-year relationships really worth more than having 1 20-year relationship in terms of experience? I get Todd's point about settling down by choice and not scarcity though, fair point. He also makes an excellent point about getting good enough that you stop feeling insecure about dating women. I've seen a few of Todd's videos and he seems like a solid dude. If he helps guys get better at getting into relationships then that's cool.
As someone already said... he does not have actual practical experience on dating women, only a literature backed view. This might be the only area where anecdotes are preferred.
Hey Todd, what do you think about women having many sexual partners and whether they get "dehumanized". You here a lot of red pill guys saying high body count means they are emotional write off's which contradicts what you say here. cheers!
Great video. I think it was funny the clip of him saying how he watches pick up artists online because "he's interested in the psychology". I think that's only partly true. I think there's also another part of him that wishes he could do that. Highly intellectual people can be very jealous of "less intellectual" people that are successful. Because the highly intellectual people are also usually very uptight and therefore struggle alot for their success. Seeing a more flow based person get things easier than they would can be very frustrating indeed. I say this from experience. As an intellectual person myself, I used to try extremely hard to get girls etc (albeit unconsciously). When I balanced out as a person and did more right brain kinds of activities (dance, improv, martial arts), I found life got way easier and actually improved my thinking processes also. Some highly intelligent people can build an entire career as an unconscious attempt to attract a desirable female. I think it's, therefore, actually an intelligent decision to learn the skill of getting good with women, so that you can focus your energy on your work because the women thing is taken care of.
Yeah, I think lately I've been trying to flirt and it's actually felt off for me. Doesn't seem to really help. Overdid it for sure. But being authentic and non-needy, is just better overall. I feel like just being "normal" and listening to her helps. I for sure have some sort of natural facial expression that is attractive, so now I just need to slowly push myself into making those pivots towards a romantic/sexual path. Overall, trying and failing is useful for learning the nuances.
JP is without doubt a genius and a mentor in so many ways, but I always thought he had it a bit wrong with dating as you point out. It seems to me that he read the game and saw a few old school videos. Very good video here👌
Excellent video Todd. Routines are indeed a must have for every pickup artist, but the goal is to eventually stay away from them as much as possible. They are your safety net in case you crash, and the fact that you have them is what gives you confidence to sway away and engage with the girl in a more carefree manner. It's a bit like wearing clothes - knowing that you are well-prepared for the interaction will give you the confidence boost that you need. And there is nothing wrong with that. If girls were the ones who had to do the pickup, our population would disappear in one generation
Agree with everything you said expect that people are happier with more sexual experience. Stats show that chance of divorce increases (And contentment in a marriage decreases) with number of past sexual partners because it’s harder to pair bond. Still, men should have options and choose their wife/gf from a place of abundance rather than desperation/settling
For people who attack game and pickup artists, think about this: women use game too, from a technical standpoint what is jealousy test? Game! And women use jealousy test all the time, some of them do that on purpose and this is just one thing, but women use a lot of tricks that we don't even imagine, so it's just human nature
What about boredom though? Once you are so experienced at starting and maintaining relationships that the whole thing becomes predictable from start to finish -- doesn't detachment set in at that point, and become the new norm for you? I've recently entered an exclusive LTR with a girl I really like after sleeping around for years and I have to admit I drop some toxicity every now and then just to entertain myself. To me it doesn't feel like that's coming from scarcity, more like I just want to keep things stimulating for myself.
Correct. That is inevitable outcome for many people that have broad relationship experience. Same reason promiscuous women have higher divorce rates. They will constantly be on the hedonic treadmill requiring novelty to achieve happiness after having such variety in life. Even Todd has a female "partner" with a kid yet he does pickup still. There are consequences to everything.
06:10 - Well, it's cuz of dopamine addiction and the programming of your brain seeing easy things as not being worthwhile (no investment bias). So it's not that crazy to say that it's bad for society on a macro level if people can't enjoy novelties anymore due to dopamine addiction.
Jordan talking about dating is like when a celebrity starts talking about climate change. Just because you're good at one thing doesn't mean you're good at this thing.
You're a hero Todd! You actually help us, while the psych prof Dr. just condemns (the majority of men even) which is certainly NOT what any doctor should do. He's supposed to help, not condemn. Also do not take any theology from JP, nuff said.
What is your view on physical game? It used to be recommended to establish touch asap like with hi fives or something but I notice you don’t in infields.
Once your game become more and more advanced, your eye contact and tonality is already enough to establish high value frame, physicality is done to make sure beginners have reached each point to remind themselves they are badass
To be fair, Todd... There still are a lot of pickup artists out there, even the big names other than you, that still encourage people to change their personality or use some form of mental manipulation on themself or the woman, to game. Fortunately, the world is lucky to still have guys like you whose methods don't necessitate subverting one's manliness or integrity.
I appreciate this flow. I think personally that we were fine with Christopher Lasch. Frankly, knowing enough rich smug people in my life, a lot of these people are just threatened by the idea that someone could generate a relationship without paying dowry to an ivy league school. They want people to respect their generational status. I"m almost certain JP is in that category, from what I gather but maybe that's because I can't stand that guy's blubbering most of the time. Although the one thing that may be concerning regarding pickup methodology is the dynamics around ending relationships. How often did the woman 'emotionally' get postured towards a more lasting thing, how many times does the ending of the relationship cause her turmoil or disappoint her. And how much do pickup artists steamroll through that part on their way to becoming pickup pros.
Hi Todd, you look way better (skin and face) than a year ago. Could be the lighting, but good to see that you look more healthy. Greetings from the Netherlands :)
to your Sushi analogy: Someone who will eat Sushi every day for an extended period of time will eventually lose the appreciation for it, just like most humans lose appreciation for all the things they take for granted. (sure, this does not apply to 99.9% of men who even if they have access to a lot of women still need to put in quite some effort, but you can overdo it) big disagree on the relationship part: if youve been in many (romantic, not purely sexual) relationships, that means most of them ended, that means someone fucked up, and since the common denominator is you, it's likely you fucked up. And since you failed multiple times, it's very likely you didn't actually learn enough from that, which just means you're not really good at relationships, in fact you might be worse than someone who never has been in a relationship and therefore hasn't had the chance to fuck up.
You're not understanding JPs points at all. He's talking about men who use women for their own selfish sexual desires with no care about the relationship or the other person, treating them as disposable because they can always get another girl to fullfil their sexual desires.
Thank you for your decision to open and request this. Still my question is : meeting a new girl who's just interested in sex now and doesn't care what next, this may be seductive , but if you wanna meet her again for more , this can make her intersd in relationship , if your answer is no , would you keep moving to another earth till your death to avoid hard feelings ? What's the real balance and wise for sex and relationship? relationship should be a tree for sure, what about sex : should it be just small plants
The camera flick audio is over used in the video and you could switch it up to keep attention from your audience. Tell your videographer/ editor. Good video.
One thing I noticed about JP is he's very insulting towards men who doesn't marry or settle down. Listen for words like Peter Pan, nihilistic, psychopathic, frat boy, juvenile, etc. It's like his tactic is to shame men into getting married.
What Peterson is missing here (being a psychologist, he should know) is that these "tactics" are a way for men to have an instruction manual at hand so that they could socialize those tactics into habits and integrate them into ones being.
Todd knows more about male-female psychology than Jordan Peterson will ever know. Todd has immense experience that has been honed over many years. Todd is the kind of person whom I really like because he is just a pragmatic guy. Keep up the good work, Todd! If we had more guys listening to Todd, we have less guys at home watching porn.
The thing is most men, like unattractive fat/old women are simply invisible , so when a public figure/celebrity is talking about “men”, they’re referring to highly attractive visible men
I never see any advice for how men can change their mind to see a woman for not just her looks. I wish I could be attracted to less than avg looking women. I might actually get a "swipe right"!
From my nearly 20 years of experience in sales I agree with using language instrumentally but it is not wrong at all because asking the right questions does not only help the client to find out or specify what he or she wants. The instrumentally used questions based from experience also show the competency of the sales person! So to say skillfully used sentences or questions that make people open up by creating or showing shared reality aka commonalities can be called routines but just because they work. To speak in your example: a child learns to behave in a certain manor(ism) and observes an outcome that the child qishes to achieve or not. So what is wrong when men do relearn behavioral pattern in order to achieve different outcomes than beinh friend zoned! What is wrong with that? According to Albert Einstein ist expecting the dofferent outcomes by behaving the same way the definition of insanity. Learning and raffining new behaviors should not be labeled as insane or psychopathoc, 🤔😅
Indeed, if sleeping with females is deem as psychopathic, while sales person is not deemed as well? It's just ironic whatever works it will work it's human nature weaknesses
The key element I think is wheter or not the skills are used to also help the client. I'm not sure if dr. Peterson would dislike pua's when he thought their goal was to also improve the quality of the women's lives.
Jp is a smart guy, and like many academics he has great communication skills. It’s what makes him stand out. But, it doesn’t mean he’s an expert on everything he talks about.
Todd, I'm sure you've tried. But please try harder and either get on Jordan's podcast or get him on yours. He definitely knows who you are if he's watched a lot of PUA videos, like he says, since your videos are usually the first suggested. I would love to hear Jordan's responses to your critique of his advice.
Hey just a thought: I think the people who say it's dangerous and it doesn't work say so because they thinkbit teaches men toxic behaviour which doesn't work and its bad for the men trying to learn. I also think that particular toxic pua's are cherry picked and used to bash the whole community. Also as a side note I think some people are uncomfortable that this can be learned and they like the fairytale idea of "chemistry" or "feeling a spark"
I agree. I always leave girls better than I found them. I don't treat girls badly. In fact, I feel like I keep getting better at treating them well. It's like a business and you want returning customers.
I can totally see how trying to get better and treating girls well is a good thing, but I'm not sure what you mean by leaving them better than you found them. Does that mean they are better off without you in their lives? I don't think you mean that, but if the girls would share the opinion of being better than before you, then why would they want to leave you?
JP’s advice is about what can be best for monogamy, individual well-being, and society based on traditions and available research. My issue with it is we are in the ‘fourth frontier’ as Bret and Heather Weinstein refer to it in their book. Sure, I want marriage, but the state is too involved and the laws are outdated. Sure I’d like kids, but I can’t afford them in todays economy. Plus it’s a risk because of how child support works. Peterson doesn’t have much to say about how to make dating work in modern day struggles.
I love how well and logically you pick apart his "arguments" - and I totally agree with what you're saying. I got into game, because I had no idea when it came to women (and the me back then wasn't exactly the most attractive version of myself) and I'm staying in it, because I'm seeking a good relationship. the idea that men suddenly stop being human and stop caring about how they're treating the opposite person, just because they're learning game is ridiculous.
Hopefully you all enjoy the video and find it informative. If you're new to my videos and you'd like to get a good foundation in game as quickly as possible, check out this FREE program: toddwinnergame.com
I'm impressed with how you're able to respond in a eloquent way without attacking him personally. I have 0 patience with the criticism against self development it's the same trite, ignorant points and even a educated psychologist is making the same ridicuolous points. People really think you're supposed to just blindly and serendipitously know how to date women and if you consciously put any thought into it you're being manipulative and psychopathic it's insane
@@PeterParkerwonpeople who think that we supposed to just know how to date women instinctually is why so many men buy into red pill ideology.
Isn't the issue that the red pilled men (e.g. me) can't find someone they are attracted to? I wish there was more content on how to find non-visual things attractive. I mean someone has to date the less attractive women or?
I get it. Some of these clips are pretty old. You’re right he doesn’t have a lot of personal experience in this arena.
But there are definitely a lot of guys who can get girls with little to no effort. See any guy 6 ft or taller in decent, not even great, shape with a six figure job in a big city. That’s a lot more than five percent of the population, or at least it seems like it having lived in Chicago for 15 years.
Now do Hoe Math please…
A list celebrities and A list athletes you mentioned who get all the women are biologically girls. Please get their gender right if you think they're men you gotta transvestigate.
Its crazy to actually run across an internet guru that isn't a con artist. You helped me meet my wife and we're gonna have a beautiful baby next year. love you man. So much gratitude for you.
That is awesome! So happy for you.
How did you meet your wife?
@@faceious2006used todds lines
@@ToddVDating Leonardo DeCaprio and Cristiano Ronaldo are biological girls.
@@ToddVDating hey Todd, is there a chance for you to make an in depth video about EU women vs NA women in terms of what they like/respond to, thanks a bunch!
The problem with JP’s dating advice is that it comes from a guy who’s been with only one girl his entire life. 99% of guys aren’t going to be married to and have a family with the first crush they ever have. The vast majority of us have had more romantic partners than him. He’s never lived the experience of having to compete with hundreds to thousands of other men for just one girl.
This so much, Jp is one of the if not the man I admire the most, but his dating advise is just so out of touch with reality, and I don’t blame him because of this, he can’t understand something no he has not experienced himself.
he sounds like a unicorn guy, and he wants to brainwash more community to follow his traditional mindset. But we all know once feminism is here, its no turning back unless the whole system collapses and women finally realize they need men not simps
Yea JP is a tradcel at the end of the day
true, same with Shapiro
Not to mention he’s a crack head
As I watch this enthralling video, it resurrects the painful memories of my recent breakup-a relationship of 4 years that ended just three months ago. The woman who meant everything to me decided to leave, plunging me into a vortex of heartache. Despite my desperate attempts to reconcile, I find myself trapped in a cycle of frustration and longing, unable to envision a life without her. Despite my efforts to move forward, I find solace in expressing my lingering affection for her here.
The process of releasing a loved one can be an uphill battle. I can relate, having navigated a similar journey when my 6-year relationship dissolved. Despite the heartache, I refused to relinquish hope and embarked on a quest to win him back. Turning to a spiritual counselor for assistance, I found guidance that ultimately led to our reconciliation.
Remarkable! How did you discover a spiritual counselor, and what's the procedure for me to get in contact with her?
The spiritual counselor is Suzanne Ann Walters.
Thank you for this invaluable information; I've just checked her out online.
@@trafford-v9eHey brother, I feel your pain. So maybe take a little solace knowing you’re definitely not alone. A girl a met through Daygame almost 3 years ago ended our relationship back in October. She was everything to me. I loved everything about our cosmic connection and now I’m back to square one. Hopefully with some action taking and letting ourselves heal we can push forward to a new chapter where we can have that again.
The worst part is that hes so invested in being a guru, he can't just be honest and say: "I really don't have that much experience on this subject." Old married guys have been out of the game for so long, its a blind spot for them.
I believe it’s just an ego thing for him to speak on everything even if he has little experience on the subject. When guys see any famous person with a PHD guys will eat up anything the person says.
In his defense, he has said this multiple times. But still totally valid about the blindspot
What’s harmful is when the low iq see him as an authority on game. Jordan is outdated. Like 2 generations away
Ive always seen him as being professionally deformed because of his career as a teacher and a clinical psychologist.
That all came way before his internet persona. Just think about it, he has spent 20+ years talking to younger people from the perspective of an authority. That surely moldes you in a way.
He naturally tries to be helpful and interviewers get him flowing and use flattery (eg "young men depend on you") then they direct him out his wheelhouse and get him to make mistakes. He really should be more wary of their traps. Silly JP.
Jordan Peterson has dated one girl in his life who he met when he was eight.
he never talked about other girls that he dated. Doesn't mean that it was one girl all his life.
That's a good win in other way
Some say that would be optimal
@@eugenijusdolgovas9278 yeah He was a swinger when he was five. :eye roll:
@@chrischris9157 some people say nonsense about anything. So.
I do get what he's saying to a certain extent - if you're having sex with a lot of women, chances are a significant percentage of those women will end up catching feelings and you have to be the one to break their hearts and some guys will definitely become numb to that to the extent they might not consider others' feelings. I don't think that makes you a psychopath as there are still ethical ways to casually date through basic human decency and honest communication.
Not inherently, but there are a lot of dudes out there who are basically taking the lesson that most women are expendable and not worth but so much of their time. The very same dudes reveling, or aiming to revel, in sexual promiscuity are the same dudes that look down on a lot of these women as "for the streets" for giving it up so easily.
It's ok to be a man-whore as far as I'm concerned, but acting as if doing so plays zero role in spreading hookup culture on both sides is just delusional. Kind of impossible to have an abundance of women to enjoy the sexual company of without there actually being an abundance of women that are about that life. It takes two to tango.
Not to mention the fact that promiscuity is inherently less focused on building long-lasting relationships, and JP's larger point is that the latter is more fulfilling yet so much of PUA encourages against it. Todd doesn't focus on manipulation but there's a fair amount of PUA that do...or at the very least, dudes that get that kind of takeaway from it.
Men dressing up nice to attract a woman that is wearing provocative clothing, fake hair, fake lashes, enhanced body parts, and 3 layers of makeup is considered manipulative on the man's part?
Man that’s why I don’t watch JP videos lmao. JP is a smart guy but when it comes to dating and improving your life it seems like he just started knowing about those 2 subjects lol.
You nailed it, every single point. As a huge JP fan I had watched all of those clips before and thought the exact same things you mentioned. JP changed my life as much as you did. But this just goes to show that even the smartest people can’t get everything right, so you always have to think critically about what anybody says. Todd is the GOAT btw.
JP is a grifter
fucken oath
Jordan Peterson is a boomer grifter who masks incompetency with overly verbose eloquence. He unironically claims that Millennials/Gen Z have more resources than Boomers for how it makes 'zero sense' why people have children later in life in today's world.
Of course he can't get everything right. Like he's totally wrong about russia. In most cases, you can't be an expert in everything.
@@PUARockstar Jordan Peterson is a BB grifter who masks incompetency with overly verbose eloquence. He unironically claims that Millennials/Gen Z have more resources than BB for how it makes 'zero sense' why people have children later in life in today's world.
Todd V is one of the only people in the world who has the courage (i.e., balls) to publicly defend pick-up artists from a moral/ethical perspective. And he does it really well.
What's ironic about peacocking is that JP currently wears a vibrant yellow suit with his own signature on it. And on the subject of manipulation, he likes to tell people to get over their contempt for sales if they want to make money, as long as they do it ethically. What about letting go of your contempt for game to get girls, as long as you do it ethically...
I really appreciate how good of an envoy you are for the PUA community. You're very respectful, and your points are sharp. These are skills that all young men should learn (or be taught). IMO PU artistry is just learning how to talk to women so that they find you interesting enough to sleep with. That takes the pressure off, and then young men can learn how to be someone that can have a lasting relationship, which is a phase beyond PU.
The early indoctrination of pua is mostly about sleeping with females to validate the male body, without considering a win win collaborative frame
Of the hundreds of dating coaches, PUA’s, matchmakers, whatever term you wanna use, Todd is by far the best I’ve ever seen. Dude is legit!
Agreed
My first car was my favorite, and I learned to drive it extremely well.
With divorce rate at %56 in the USA one must really be with various people to settle with one. I agree %100 with Todd. This channel is realistic. Believe me when I say I’m 53 year old divorced guy. I’m brushing my skills here; and nothing has changed with courting.
Where are you getting your data for divorce rates? I've seen them peak decades ago and have remained around 40% for a long time now. Probably declining even further as marriage becomes less common.
@@jfkst1look up James Sexton content and interviews on divorce and marriage
@@jfkst1let's not forget that most divorces are initiated by women. most likely because they lost all respect and attraction towards their man because respect and attraction are key ingredients in intimate relationships.
Me: I’d enjoy watching Todd shit on Jordan Peterson
Todd: Does. Not. Disappoint.
I would suggest to all you boys out there to read "No more Mr. Nice guy". You will understand what it is to be a man and will make you even more attractive. Females should read it, too
The thing about "game" is that there is many different styles of game. Some people teach you to strictly go off a script that you repeat to hundreds. Others teach you good conversation starters and a general outlook on how to connect. The more sleasy types of game only really work on young, insecure women. As women get approached more they start to see through that stuff. But when you just learn to connect with women, its not something that they see as manipulative, they just see that you have good universal communication skills
Didn't game since 3-4 years since i was with a girl and last night there were 2 girl sitting together in a bar, I had high approch anxiety but I went anyways after hyping myself up for 30 mins and spent the rest of the night with them. Teasing, disqualifying etc. WOrked so well I landed a solid number from that 18 years old cute girl, she even texted me this morning to make plans for this week. Really good feeling.
Having more sex, getting better with women, working on my game has made me a happier man not a bitter psychopath. Todd is 100% correct JP in this instance is not.
Jordan met his wife and only partner when he was like 14 or something, was he super sophisticated at that age to attract her? Its ridiculous.
8
Not true. They met and were friends when they were really young, but only got together later in life in their mid 20s iirc.
Dr Peterson got married at the ripe of age of 27 and has been married since 1989. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned his lack of experience on this topic.
Him shaming pickup is like a trust fund baby calling out labor workers for being sweaty after a long day's work.
And "outdated" is definitly another one of his problems, clearly he's skimmed over The Game and seen a couple of episodes from Mystery's reality show from over 20 years ago.
He would benifit from a refresh on what pickup and dating look like in 2023 and it's not like there's a shortage of material out there as I'm sure your 263K subs would agree
I think the psychopath thing is more about how you view the woman. I don't know if that is what Dr. Peterson means, but at some point when I got better with women using some of your techniques, during the RSD era, I knew exactly what to say and to do to get laid. I just needed the woman to jump through my hoops.
I watched an infield video of you sitting in a café with a "target" breaking down her body language, responses using techniques. It made me feel very uncomfortable and I took a hard look at myself. If the woman becomes a target or a tool, on which you just have to press the right button, in order to get what you want, you are a psychopath. Make no mistake!
I’d be interested to see Todd do more take downs of common but bad advice, with infield examples
I constantly here,
“Don’t pursue, work on yourself and girls will come”
“You can’t force attraction, if she’s not interested right away move on”
“Don’t be direct when she doesn’t know you, become friends first”
The last one uff. I hope no kid reads that ever again.
If you constantly hear this stuff then you're listening to the wrong people.
Second and third points are complete garbage, they're so wrong that they're not even worth addressing. As for the first, working on yourself is important, where a lot of guys go wrong is thinking that by doing better in life the universe will somehow magically provide them with women. That's obviously a dumb way to think but it's worth getting a good life for its own sake, just because you can be a slob and get girls doesn't mean it's a good idea. Women should be an addition to your life, not the focus of it.
Jordan Peterson is on point analyzing a lot of trends that affect mating. You give great advice on pulling women for dating. There is a difference. Nearly all women respond to game, but promiscuous women respond faster (obviously). The #1 economic and personal threat to a Western male is divorce. Likelihood of divorce skyrockets when marrying a woman with a history of promiscuity. Attracting and picking a life partner is very different from getting a girlfriend for the weekend or the year.
yup
Unless you live in a closed religious community, most men in the 21st century absolutely need experience to either pick a life partner (which sounds gay asf) or a girl for the weekend.
@@ivanrodriguez4754 Experience is not required. For men it's not necessary to be a good husband. For women, too much experience is strongly correlated with an extremely high divorce rate (over 3 previous partners is a no-go). It's not gay to want someone who will be a partner (soulmate, whatever) for life instead of a wife who will divorce when she feels like it. We obviously us the word differently, since I'm heterosexual and definitely not liberal.
@hammerfist8763 Once again, brother, idk how old you are, but if you are a man who lives in a first world country that allows divorce between the ages of 18-45 you're going to get absolutely dog walked by women if you can't seduce them mentally and physically which most men can not do without experience.
@hammerfist8763 If this was 70 years ago, then sure, you don't need experience to have a woman that most likely won't play you.
I can talk from my own experience. I used to be a little more toxic with my partners when I was really insecure, I would be really jealous and would get really explosive on arguments because of the lear of losing the "only" person that felt attracted to me.
After a couple of years is the completely different side. I can't care less if my gf wants to leave, I have options.
"I can't care less if my gf wants to leave, I have options."
Tbf that's exactly the kind of mentality JP is criticizing. If you're seeing a relationship as expendable then you're all the more likely to not invest your time and energy in nurturing its longevity...especially a guy that takes the wrong lesson from people like Todd.
Granted, to be abundantly clear, I agree with Todd that it's better for a man to make an active choice about who he wants to spend his life with than to settle for less from the standpoint of scarcity. But nonetheless, there's a fine line between adundance reaching the point of being dismissive of a woman over every little trangression that a man convinces himself he doesn't have to put up with simply because he has options.
Man, at this point i watch your videos just for fun and cause i like you. You helped me a lot with your tips on dating and the last few girls i had a relationship were amazing, current with a lovely girl.
Love you my man, you deserve the best in life. Brazilian boy here
That last clip was unfair. It was taken from his days as a professor. The pickup community may have evolved, but he did describe it accurately at the time.
Few thoughts: firstly, when talking about this subject, it important to not make absolute statements and I respect Todd for being very nuanced in his explanations which seem like a very good attempt to reflect reality in the most objective way possible.
However, I believe the abundance in dating (regardless of gender or method of attaining it) really made people less willing to invest in a relationship with one person. I would never think it psychopathic or pathological, but definitely less personal. Its simply more pragmatic and easier to replace than try to fix existing relationship.
Then there's an ego boost which people find it difficult to control. Again not to say that everyone has an overblown self worth but experience of abundance (even fake virtual) evidently makes people more narcissistic and self absorbed and less willing to commit or work through challenges in relationships.
On a bright side dating skills are super transferable so being better at is a shortcut to success in career, social life and overall wellbeing. That's what JP talks about - mental health. Its a very well known truth in dating community that even a few approches a day can lift your mood and increase your mental health - I guess JP is not allowed to say it 😂
I disagree, most people in that position would soon realize that "replacing instead of trying to "fix" existing relationships isn't going to get them what they want. These men have an abundance of sexual options, so they have no need to look for it, but that won't supply them with the connection they also need, and after swithcing a few times they will realize that. It is a simple case of Maslow's pyramid.
After they get the hornyness satisfied, and the self-esteem of being able to get laid, they will move on to trying to fullfill their higher needs, that's how growth works.
Presumption in the first point is that working through a relationship is more important and better than moving onto the next one.
I would generally say yes, but not necessarly.
Do you trip over your thought to the point that you get nowhere ?
@@MatlockizationYou would say he's overthinking and overcomplicating, I speculate he would tell you that you're living an unexamined life.
@@johnny4062 No, I like what I said better. As for you speaking on behalf of that guy, it seems that you both gotta get out more with tha ladies !
There is a Book called Atomic attraction that says the same thing, too. That you have to be machiovelian to be very sucessful with women. It does have insights on how to pass relationship shit tests. Or how to not be so needy.
It doesnt really teach you anything about game, just kinda how to react to women.
For example, if you wanted to get a woman back in your life, you have to go "no contact."
And it does work. It does get the woman to forget about you, and they build this different outlook on you over time.
But in my experience, this has worked, but i always had to reach out to them. They will never reach out to you. Because its the man's job to make the first move.
you are right bro
What I’ve liked about your videos and your teachings is that you give the guy that doesn’t have the ability to meet girls tools to do so the same skills in pick up can be applied to any social interaction
I studied psychology (not at all on his level) and he is very wrong about dating a lot of the time. The problem with him is his faszination with psycho-analysis and Jung - which has nothing to do with factual scientific truth. He is also very right on some topics - so he speaks convinced on topics, he is not very well informed on.
Also I have to thank you. I am kinda succesfull with women now, and I was not 10 years ago. Your videos were the ones I always went back to. Thanks man.
The last clip was from the early 2000s Peterson was criticizing old school PUA s like Mystery, can lines, peacocking, routines etc, not today's PUA techniques, the industry has evolved in the past 20yrs, I agree with your comments from the first clip though.
Todd! As a follower of you (very thankful) and JP follower, I would say maybe you can approach JP on his social media and ask for a podcast together? I definitely defend "game" when it comes to personal development, but I also understand Dr. Peterson latest position in this regard (I don't agree with him on 08:39 for example, but that is several years ago - maybe he changed his mind as he was clearly talking about the Mystery Method). It would be awesome to have you both in a conversation in regards to this whole topic!
I love it when two people who I highly respect on an intellectual level disagree. It opens the door to a new way of thinking. Awesome video Todd
Would love to see you two in a conversation together. Given his stance on the education system, it'd be interesting to see someone like him who's successful in spite of said system talk to someone who's successful in parallel to said system. Also a symbolic PhD in Game has far more philosophy and elasticity of mind vs most other modern so-called PhDs
having a conversation with jp is impossible. the guy does mental masturbation around any subject even if he is fundamentally wrong on so many things.
Peterson only experience with game when Cobra Tate ucked his daughter. Now Jordan is eternally salty about the top player
Thanks for talking on this, saw that last clip a couple of weeks ago.. something didn't sit right about it. Great response!!
It would be interesting to see you debate with JP about these topics.
Should definitely have some sort of debate about this with JBP, Todd.
You've been a tremendous help to a lot of men, without "manipulative psychopathy" or whatever other stuff he claims.
Keep it up.
Totally agree. But please tone down the camera clicking sound effect - I am trying to listen to what Todd is saying and it's totally distracting.
JP should only talk about psychology. If he talks about religion or dating it's just nonsense.
This was such a great video. If it wasn't for game and pick up I would have never met my wife. I think if more red pill guys did game they would stop being red pill. It made me a better person.
The topics dating and women are not his strength.
I really agree. He is expanding to all kinds of areas that he doesn’t have expertise in. He is becoming a pundit
Right Todd, here's the difference:
Only those who are mature and of a good character and willing to be grow benefit from many relationships. That includes you, but that doesn't encompass everyone.
Those who are immature and of a low calibre have more baggage from dating, that includes hook-ups, so I feel that really needs to be emphasised.
So no, getting run through sexually is not better for your relationship toolbox, if you're a shallow, immature person.
A mature person will get from 3 relationship what it would takes others 15 or so relationships.
A lot of cope splaining going on here. Dry your eyes.
7:38 appreciate Todd for the skills he helped me develop. Appreciate JBP for the man he helped me become. It’s a complicated issue & comes down to questions about the ends of human sexuality & what’s considered “good” for the human person.
7:38 it’s worth noting that Todd compares sex & relationships to consuming sushi. The assessment comes down to the individual “consumer’s” experience/satisfaction. Not the experience of both human partners moving towards their flourishing. My assessment here is a bit unfair to Todd as he’d be quick to say he’d want both parties to enjoy the experience. Which moves us into his claim about becoming good in relationships by having many of them. To me, this sounds like the Mark Twain quote “I’m great at quitting smoking, I’ve done it hundreds of times.” It kind of misses the point/end of a relationship. So the underlying question is what’s the ultimate purpose of a male-female relationship? If it’s marriage family & life long companionship based on a metaphysics of complementary sexual natures, then by default having had many is a strike against that claim. If a relationship is just an arrangement where 2 people respectfully agree to engage in a temporary monogamous (non childbearing) sex with limited emotional commitment (which I freely do admit can include many positive aspects short of lifelong commitment & child rearing) then I’m sure Todd’s become a ‘pro’ at these types of relationships.
Overall, would love to see these 2 talk as I do think it’s complicated.
By my lights, The “pick up artist/community” qua “pick up” can be used as instrumental and manipulative, if the end goal is to manipulate women into having sex with no intention of pursuing a ‘relationship’ and that intention is left ambiguous or deceptively obfuscated. That said, following PUAs (including Todd) back in the day, gave me some needed skills, and yes, routines that empowered me when engaging with women. Heck, I gave my now wife a cube test on the first date. But it was lessons from JDP (and my faith) that called me to adopt responsibility and seek out marriage and virtue development.
As far as the instrumental use of language critique: this gets us into ethical considerations regarding when, if ever, humans can be treated as means rather than ends. And my own short answer would be when it’s in the confines of a preset mutually beneficial arrangement, but generally, humans should be treated as ends whenever possible. It’s ok for me to tell the waiter at a restaurant get me this or that. I can even do that (and allow myself to be used) in a mutually beneficial mutually subservient marriage context where we both trust the other to be directing what’s good for the marriage/family as a whole. Sometimes my wife just says honey go do x, but that’s ok bc of the background of trust and commitment to each others flourishing and the family’s betterment. Anyways just my thoughts.
Nice nuanced comment
I'm relieved you're covering this. Peterson's made himself look like a total idiot in this specific regard, it's literally misinformation. Well done keep it up Todd!
i think it’s a stretch to call him a total idiot. maybe you hold him to such high expectations because of his persona as an intellectual. He isn’t right about everything, no one is. Doesn’t mean he’s an idiot.
Also- I've been told it's also because Petersen
IS FROM A BABY BOOMER generation-
Things were totally different then - men meet their wives through friends mostly
or in Petersens case - in his childhood.
But it's becoming rarer to find a wife compared to before as because in Petersens time -;
women used to judge a man mostly by his intellect /looks.
Now intellectual ability is at a lower tier.
@@kenlee-97 I'm a bit older than him. I remember how different things were and very early on realised and started to closely monitor the changes and the reasons for them. Party because I was an adman like Don Draper. My father met my mother in Bermuda. She was an english teacher he was a hotel trainee. He spoke six languages was good looking and hard working. He had the best game I've ever seen period. I won't tell you about his father because nobody would believe me. Don't ask.
Idiot? Really? How about mistaken
@@LOGOASSASSIN I think you're over-estimating how invested people are in your family history
To me gaming is okay if the goal is just to get into a relationship. If your goal is just to bang women then that doesn't feel right to me. People with unresolved issues can have an addiction to casual sex and treat other people as sex objects to fill an emotional void (especially cluster B personality disorders).
Also, I don't agree with Todd's sushi example... you can easily become a sushi snob. Same with people that dedicate their lives to trying out every different type of wine, they become wine snobs. Relationship variety shouldn't be seen as this exotic luxury that is to be mastered by the afocianado, that's gross.
A stoic mindset is that you can put in some effort and reach out for your desire, but not overreach so that you fall over. In other words, it's alright to pick and choose a little, but to make it your quest to try out as many women as possible before settling down misses the whole point. It also hints towards fear of commitment and attachment issues.
Also, is having 20 1-year relationships really worth more than having 1 20-year relationship in terms of experience?
I get Todd's point about settling down by choice and not scarcity though, fair point. He also makes an excellent point about getting good enough that you stop feeling insecure about dating women. I've seen a few of Todd's videos and he seems like a solid dude. If he helps guys get better at getting into relationships then that's cool.
As someone already said... he does not have actual practical experience on dating women, only a literature backed view. This might be the only area where anecdotes are preferred.
Jordan married his highschool girlfriend. So no, not much experience.
Furthermore~ Jordan Peterson is targeting old school PUA. (Mystery and Neil Strauss)
Very good content as always , keep the good job
Hey Todd, what do you think about women having many sexual partners and whether they get "dehumanized". You here a lot of red pill guys saying high body count means they are emotional write off's which contradicts what you say here. cheers!
Great video. I think it was funny the clip of him saying how he watches pick up artists online because "he's interested in the psychology". I think that's only partly true. I think there's also another part of him that wishes he could do that. Highly intellectual people can be very jealous of "less intellectual" people that are successful. Because the highly intellectual people are also usually very uptight and therefore struggle alot for their success. Seeing a more flow based person get things easier than they would can be very frustrating indeed. I say this from experience. As an intellectual person myself, I used to try extremely hard to get girls etc (albeit unconsciously). When I balanced out as a person and did more right brain kinds of activities (dance, improv, martial arts), I found life got way easier and actually improved my thinking processes also. Some highly intelligent people can build an entire career as an unconscious attempt to attract a desirable female. I think it's, therefore, actually an intelligent decision to learn the skill of getting good with women, so that you can focus your energy on your work because the women thing is taken care of.
I'd love to see these two actually have a debate!
Yeah, I think lately I've been trying to flirt and it's actually felt off for me. Doesn't seem to really help. Overdid it for sure. But being authentic and non-needy, is just better overall. I feel like just being "normal" and listening to her helps. I for sure have some sort of natural facial expression that is attractive, so now I just need to slowly push myself into making those pivots towards a romantic/sexual path. Overall, trying and failing is useful for learning the nuances.
Nice to see somebody talking about this. This was literally one of the only if not the only things that I could not agree with Jordan at all.
JP is without doubt a genius and a mentor in so many ways, but I always thought he had it a bit wrong with dating as you point out. It seems to me that he read the game and saw a few old school videos.
Very good video here👌
Excellent video Todd. Routines are indeed a must have for every pickup artist, but the goal is to eventually stay away from them as much as possible. They are your safety net in case you crash, and the fact that you have them is what gives you confidence to sway away and engage with the girl in a more carefree manner.
It's a bit like wearing clothes - knowing that you are well-prepared for the interaction will give you the confidence boost that you need. And there is nothing wrong with that. If girls were the ones who had to do the pickup, our population would disappear in one generation
same goes to sales. You need routines or come back when clients say why they don't want a product or service
Only fools hate routines. Everyone has routines. When you have good stories you tell them to more than one person. That’s a routine
Agree with everything you said expect that people are happier with more sexual experience. Stats show that chance of divorce increases (And contentment in a marriage decreases) with number of past sexual partners because it’s harder to pair bond. Still, men should have options and choose their wife/gf from a place of abundance rather than desperation/settling
For people who attack game and pickup artists, think about this: women use game too, from a technical standpoint what is jealousy test? Game! And women use jealousy test all the time, some of them do that on purpose and this is just one thing, but women use a lot of tricks that we don't even imagine, so it's just human nature
It really depends how far You take it toxic is toxic human nature My ass🤣🤣🤣
What about boredom though? Once you are so experienced at starting and maintaining relationships that the whole thing becomes predictable from start to finish -- doesn't detachment set in at that point, and become the new norm for you?
I've recently entered an exclusive LTR with a girl I really like after sleeping around for years and I have to admit I drop some toxicity every now and then just to entertain myself. To me it doesn't feel like that's coming from scarcity, more like I just want to keep things stimulating for myself.
Correct. That is inevitable outcome for many people that have broad relationship experience. Same reason promiscuous women have higher divorce rates. They will constantly be on the hedonic treadmill requiring novelty to achieve happiness after having such variety in life. Even Todd has a female "partner" with a kid yet he does pickup still. There are consequences to everything.
06:10 - Well, it's cuz of dopamine addiction and the programming of your brain seeing easy things as not being worthwhile (no investment bias). So it's not that crazy to say that it's bad for society on a macro level if people can't enjoy novelties anymore due to dopamine addiction.
Jordan talking about dating is like when a celebrity starts talking about climate change. Just because you're good at one thing doesn't mean you're good at this thing.
You're a hero Todd! You actually help us, while the psych prof Dr. just condemns (the majority of men even) which is certainly NOT what any doctor should do. He's supposed to help, not condemn. Also do not take any theology from JP, nuff said.
What is your view on physical game? It used to be recommended to establish touch asap like with hi fives or something but I notice you don’t in infields.
Once your game become more and more advanced, your eye contact and tonality is already enough to establish high value frame, physicality is done to make sure beginners have reached each point to remind themselves they are badass
To be fair, Todd... There still are a lot of pickup artists out there, even the big names other than you, that still encourage people to change their personality or use some form of mental manipulation on themself or the woman, to game.
Fortunately, the world is lucky to still have guys like you whose methods don't necessitate subverting one's manliness or integrity.
It all comes down to the same concept:
Don't ask a homeless person how to make money, don't ask a virgin how to get girls.
I appreciate this flow. I think personally that we were fine with Christopher Lasch. Frankly, knowing enough rich smug people in my life, a lot of these people are just threatened by the idea that someone could generate a relationship without paying dowry to an ivy league school. They want people to respect their generational status. I"m almost certain JP is in that category, from what I gather but maybe that's because I can't stand that guy's blubbering most of the time. Although the one thing that may be concerning regarding pickup methodology is the dynamics around ending relationships. How often did the woman 'emotionally' get postured towards a more lasting thing, how many times does the ending of the relationship cause her turmoil or disappoint her. And how much do pickup artists steamroll through that part on their way to becoming pickup pros.
Hi Todd, you look way better (skin and face) than a year ago. Could be the lighting, but good to see that you look more healthy. Greetings from the Netherlands :)
to your Sushi analogy: Someone who will eat Sushi every day for an extended period of time will eventually lose the appreciation for it, just like most humans lose appreciation for all the things they take for granted. (sure, this does not apply to 99.9% of men who even if they have access to a lot of women still need to put in quite some effort, but you can overdo it)
big disagree on the relationship part: if youve been in many (romantic, not purely sexual) relationships, that means most of them ended, that means someone fucked up, and since the common denominator is you, it's likely you fucked up. And since you failed multiple times, it's very likely you didn't actually learn enough from that, which just means you're not really good at relationships, in fact you might be worse than someone who never has been in a relationship and therefore hasn't had the chance to fuck up.
You're not understanding JPs points at all. He's talking about men who use women for their own selfish sexual desires with no care about the relationship or the other person, treating them as disposable because they can always get another girl to fullfil their sexual desires.
I'm 36 and never done the deed, i have no clue what to do about it. It's affecting my mental health
Maybe, I'm not sure, Peterson wants to say that once you get women quite easily you will end up not treasuring these relationships as much.
Todd is a G. Met him in Barcelona this summer, very down to earth humble guy.
Can you do one on coach Cory wane ? I’m interested in your opinion.
Lol, this guy is blue pill as well
what's up with Jordarn's stained shirt?
Thank you for your decision to open and request this.
Still my question is : meeting a new girl who's just interested in sex now and doesn't care what next, this may be seductive , but if you wanna meet her again for more , this can make her intersd in relationship , if your answer is no , would you keep moving to another earth till your death to avoid hard feelings ?
What's the real balance and wise for sex and relationship?
relationship should be a tree for sure, what about sex : should it be just small plants
The camera flick audio is over used in the video and you could switch it up to keep attention from your audience. Tell your videographer/ editor. Good video.
One thing I noticed about JP is he's very insulting towards men who doesn't marry or settle down. Listen for words like Peter Pan, nihilistic, psychopathic, frat boy, juvenile, etc. It's like his tactic is to shame men into getting married.
JP is being used by the elites to defend the status quo
What Peterson is missing here (being a psychologist, he should know) is that these "tactics" are a way for men to have an instruction manual at hand so that they could socialize those tactics into habits and integrate them into ones being.
Todd knows more about male-female psychology than Jordan Peterson will ever know. Todd has immense experience that has been honed over many years. Todd is the kind of person whom I really like because he is just a pragmatic guy. Keep up the good work, Todd! If we had more guys listening to Todd, we have less guys at home watching porn.
I believe that they could work together to find the best solution
The thing is most men, like unattractive fat/old women are simply invisible , so when a public figure/celebrity is talking about “men”, they’re referring to highly attractive visible men
I never see any advice for how men can change their mind to see a woman for not just her looks. I wish I could be attracted to less than avg looking women. I might actually get a "swipe right"!
From my nearly 20 years of experience in sales I agree with using language instrumentally but it is not wrong at all because asking the right questions does not only help the client to find out or specify what he or she wants. The instrumentally used questions based from experience also show the competency of the sales person!
So to say skillfully used sentences or questions that make people open up by creating or showing shared reality aka commonalities can be called routines but just because they work.
To speak in your example: a child learns to behave in a certain manor(ism) and observes an outcome that the child qishes to achieve or not. So what is wrong when men do relearn behavioral pattern in order to achieve different outcomes than beinh friend zoned! What is wrong with that? According to Albert Einstein ist expecting the dofferent outcomes by behaving the same way the definition of insanity. Learning and raffining new behaviors should not be labeled as insane or psychopathoc, 🤔😅
Indeed, if sleeping with females is deem as psychopathic, while sales person is not deemed as well? It's just ironic whatever works it will work it's human nature weaknesses
The key element I think is wheter or not the skills are used to also help the client.
I'm not sure if dr. Peterson would dislike pua's when he thought their goal was to also improve the quality of the women's lives.
Suddenly I’m hungry for sushi
Excellent video Todd, very insightful analysis
Jp is a smart guy, and like many academics he has great communication skills. It’s what makes him stand out. But, it doesn’t mean he’s an expert on everything he talks about.
What are your thoughts on Peterson's view of "sophisticated women" And how men are attracted to women who know how to say no?
Todd, I'm sure you've tried. But please try harder and either get on Jordan's podcast or get him on yours. He definitely knows who you are if he's watched a lot of PUA videos, like he says, since your videos are usually the first suggested. I would love to hear Jordan's responses to your critique of his advice.
When Todd says the eating sushi analogy
*me, smirking, hoping he makes a fish joke*
Hey just a thought: I think the people who say it's dangerous and it doesn't work say so because they thinkbit teaches men toxic behaviour which doesn't work and its bad for the men trying to learn. I also think that particular toxic pua's are cherry picked and used to bash the whole community. Also as a side note I think some people are uncomfortable that this can be learned and they like the fairytale idea of "chemistry" or "feeling a spark"
Jordan Peterson is a Delta Male.
He cherry picks half of the Red Pill Truths, instead of embracing ALL.
I agree. I always leave girls better than I found them. I don't treat girls badly. In fact, I feel like I keep getting better at treating them well. It's like a business and you want returning customers.
Or it's from your good humane nature of kindness etc...
I can totally see how trying to get better and treating girls well is a good thing, but I'm not sure what you mean by leaving them better than you found them. Does that mean they are better off without you in their lives? I don't think you mean that, but if the girls would share the opinion of being better than before you, then why would they want to leave you?
This video shows the difference between academic theory and real world experience
JP’s advice is about what can be best for monogamy, individual well-being, and society based on traditions and available research. My issue with it is we are in the ‘fourth frontier’ as Bret and Heather Weinstein refer to it in their book. Sure, I want marriage, but the state is too involved and the laws are outdated. Sure I’d like kids, but I can’t afford them in todays economy. Plus it’s a risk because of how child support works. Peterson doesn’t have much to say about how to make dating work in modern day struggles.
I really wanna see you do a course on the concept of Leveling
Jp is just jealous of men who get women it’s obvious
You are so articulate and sensible. Thanks for all your good advice.
2:20 I definitely don't have abundance and I am NOT happy, well put together and down to earth 😂
I'm getting there though. Thank you for VGA Todd ♥️
I love how well and logically you pick apart his "arguments" - and I totally agree with what you're saying. I got into game, because I had no idea when it came to women (and the me back then wasn't exactly the most attractive version of myself) and I'm staying in it, because I'm seeking a good relationship. the idea that men suddenly stop being human and stop caring about how they're treating the opposite person, just because they're learning game is ridiculous.