Consistently. It's absolutely insane. > Make terrible woke characters that nobody likes >People criticise > Call critics some kind of -phobe or -ism Clown show lol
@@azazelgrigori9244 "Oh btw, we'll make the character a lot less attractive because we want her to look average, not super hot like you." Yeah no, that the opposite of offensive.
@@MrDezokokotar I disagree. If I put myself through the work to look good, and therefore take pride in it, and I were to play a character, I'd want them to look just as good if not better. To do so would actually mean all that work I've done was meaningless. And it'd be a blow to my ego. However, I bet a good amount of those actresses are activists too.
What’s ironic too is Grace Randolph complained in her Superman trailer breakdown that the DCU doesn’t have enough “beefcakes” aka attractive men, but she always complains the “oversexualization” of women in Hollywood. This is indicative of how many people in the industry think, for some reason catering to the “female gaze” is fine, whereas catering to the “male gaze” is looked down upon, even when it comes to superhero films/console video games, where the vast majority of its audience are male.
Grace is a NYC liberal elitists. She has been handed everything from her little bubble . How do you think she affords an NYC penthouse ? It ain’t from YT videos .
Unironically, the female gaze described by feminist does not equate the male gaze in the female context, rather the female gaze is often described as women positively and empowering by feeling and emotions unlike the male which seeks to objectify women.
@@mistysh7717 Because the majority of gamers are men. There are women, like JB, who bring it up, but even if a larger percentage of female gamers complain, their gross numbers are still smaller than the number of men that complain. And men don't like ugly things either.
The game developers purposely made Mary Jane ugly and added mini games that people said they didn't want in the game. Also having attractive female characters doesn't equal pornography and you can't stop everyone from objectifying woman either.
@@batmanvsuperman_ , I would've bought a PS5 if they made the MJ segments in the PS4 Remastered and Spider-Man 2 with Spinneret instead of it being boring Vicki Vale and Lois Lane missions, and it's one of the many many reasons I switched from a PS4 to an Xbox Series X.
That's what I'm saying. Beautiful doesn't mean porn. When did liberals become these puritans? Too all the other copes for why women do not look normal in games as much are also dumb. They do it because 1) beauty i guess is "unrealistic standards for women", which how freaking fragile do they think we are? Besides wishing my cup size was bigger i am not insecure about a video game character looking cute/ pretty. Or 2) trans representation. Which I'm sure trans people want to look like the gender they are trying to be and not the most androgynous grody looking creature. Like, are they saying trans are inherently ugly?? Just give a guy a girls voice and vise versa if they want trans representation.
people will mod in spider man 1 mj into sm2 when it releases on pc. The fact that blackcat looks the same in 1and 2 is proof the mj design was done on purpose.
they will mod in some random hot woman actually most of the time Like how dying light 2 has a mod that completely whitewashes the main female character
what was done on purpose was putting her in a mission with Miles, someone who has 0% chemistry with, I was angry during that mission, everyone loves felicia and peter
The “YOU WANT CORN IN VIDEO GAMES” argument is dumb. If I were an actress who modeled for games, and when it came out, I was made to be less attractive in the game than I am in real life all for the sake of some weird idea that is empowering to do so or something, I’d be offended. Lol Also, yeah. Spiderman 2 felt very, very safe. Seems like they never want to tell a risky story about the symbiote and the actual effects it has on Peter.
Im sure they tell the actress theyre going to change her appearance. In fact its pretty flattering to be told "youre too hot for this character, we need to make you more mundane."
the creator of Bayonetta has the exact same body type as Bayonetta herself, and even in the third and last game of Bayonetta she still has the same body type, so clearly characters like MJ and Ciri being made ugly on purpose is done for a political agenda.
@@Keurgui1 , Bayonetta is what convinced me to getting a Nintendo Switch in the first place, but I've bought other Switch exclusives years after buying my first Switch model.
There's actually been studies on people choosing attractive Avatar characters in video games and they found that folks became more confident they played that character. And well sometimes they would feel self-conscious that they didn't match. It would actually encourage them to work out. So in a way we're robbing ourselves of a push forward.
Considering those idiots are offended by healthy people and call it fat shaming when someone works to lose weight and feel better... they really don't want that push. Not for themselves and not for others who could be less miserable than they are. Edit: phone typos
There's an art to purposely making hideous avatars, but, yeah, most people prefer attractive avatars. Being hot is a common power fantasy, and there's nothing wrong with it.
No one wants porn in games, that’s literally just a red herring argument that these idiot game journos use to discredit the entire argument. Sure there are gooners but it is not the same as wanting porn in games.
Not to mention that the whole "don't sexualize women" argument, the ONE talking point from feminists that i agree with, comes mostly from promiscuous women... i don't get it! Plus the fact that when males are sexualized (almost every superhero movie with a "handsome muscular" hero he needs to be shirtless for no reason at all. Arrow and the MCU shows that) And i gotta say, there's a difference between making a sexualized character, and a beautiful one. Easily summarized by the difference between "hot" and "pretty", i want the latter. These people can't stand the latter and claim is "sexualizing", so of course it will mean the the way to not sexualize, is to uglify
It's not about having corn, they go out of their way to suck the beauty out of women who were attractive before, it's not just games it's comics, cartoons and movies. Notice how this is only happening to women while men get to stay attractive.
Exactly. It's useless anyway, because of Rule 34. No matter how much effort of those activists in making female character ugly, someone would make the 🌽 fan arts of those characters or at least a sexy cosplay of those characters.
@@trueLuminus which defeat the whole purpose of making him a young adult dealing with adult problems while being spiderman in the first game. He's not a teenager anymore and he doesn't need to look like one. I don't know what "better match" mean but you can really feel Peter's emotions with his old face, the new face don't.
@@user-is9nm4vw8j That may be true, but the problem we're talking about is the deliberate act of making women ugly; especially, when they were otherwise really attractive before. This is something that is absolutely not done to men. Ugly men characters are either a joke or evil like 99% of the time if not 100%.
I just find it funny how insomniac tried to gaslight us into thinking nothing was changed as if we couldn't just go back to the first game and compare the two versions.
Wait until you see Jean Grey in Insomniac's upcoming Wolverine game...... Same principle, a character who is intentionally beautiful in the comics handed the uglification stick in gaming. To be blunt, it's simply because the "modern audience" has deemed female characters offensive, so let's not have them look feminine in any way.
@@zrowngctrThere is no 'modern audience.' There's only activist developers, and chronically online 'allies,' the vast majority who don't even play videogames.
@@iceman00behave Saying as someone on the left, I've seen the same argument is used on left -- the idea that people complaining about MJ's appurtenance aren't actually video gamers. Video games appeal to a very wide segment of the population. While sometimes activists and/or grifters get involved on both sides that don't play video games, there's defiantly people on both sides of this arguments playing the games. To decrease polarization and increase more mutually respectful conversations, I don't think it's useful to state otherwise for either side. Getting out of my echo chamber, a lot of these left vs right media conflicts feel like inability to communicate and take each other's sides seriously and assumptions of the worst of the other. There are some very vocal misogyny and other issues on the right who use the term "woke" and so people on the left now associate any use of "woke" or complaints about diversity as bigotry (as typical -- the loudest and most annoying people tend to characterize entire groups for those not in the group). I appreciate JesterBell avoiding the term as does increase the reach of her message to the left who needs to hear it. I've seen people on left wanting to more voice similar issues, but feel like they can't else they're be assumed to be on the right. Like with right, there's also loud and annoying people on left that tend to characterize the entire left for those not within the left (which tend more towards beneficial sexist towards women but misandrists towards men -- there's differing sexist issues on both sides)
@@hefoxedI appreciate your willingness for discussion, but I'd argue that this isn't even a left vs right issue. It's a demographic & human nature issue. While true that a wide variety of people play games now, the term 'gaming' applies to everything from elden ring to bejeweled. And likewise, it encompasses the young guy who spends multiple hours a week on his console and PC, to the middle aged woman who plays match 3 games on her phone occasionally. The fact is, people who would own a PS5, and buy Spiderman 2 would skew primarily male. Comics were read primarily by males, and Peter Parker's 'nerd who becomes a superhero and gets the girl' was a trope designed to appeal to males. Males like attractive women. But just as Jesterbell said in this video, women do too. So it's not like the average woman is cheering in front of her TV that Mary Jane is suddenly less attractive than the last game. Do we see women making themselves look worse on social media using using filters, photoshop, etc? Or are they using those tools to make themselves look more attractive? That's not misogyny, or whatever nonsense the vocal online crowd are using, it's a biological impulse.
Wasn't MJ a supermodel in the comics though? She is meant to be like incredibly gorgeous. She has red hair because that is widely considered the sexiest hair color. In fact, I would argue that sexuality is a part of her character.
@@vetarlittorf1807 , MJ was a supermodel from the 60's to the 90's, and then the 2000's to now made her an actress and a reporter, but even whenever the first Spider-Girl comics were published had MJ as a bikini model, so MJ being an actress and reporter is more of a modern change to her character that neither the Silver and Bronze Age comics didn't have.
She is supposed to be out of Peter’s league anyways. There is a reason him being a nerd in the beginning and working his way up to get her affection is a popular trope. It falls flat if she’s equal to him in looks and confidence, and it falls even harder if it’s the other way around; a story about a low status woman winning the approval of a hunk. Things don’t work like that irl
Yeah, I like it when the characters i play are conventionally attractive, not in a sexuell way, but it's just nice to look at. I'm a guy and i like it when my male protagonists are good-looking too. Like i much prefer playing as Witcher 3 Geralt vs Witcher 2 Geralt, cause i think he's more handsome.
*slow clap* Hangups is the right word. The consultants and HR people who gained obscene amounts of power to influence decisions like these are either people who had major hangups to begin with, or developed "professional hangups" due to their training to seek out "problematic" stuff. Either way, they're weirdos as a result, and way out of touch with normal people. And yes, deliberately hitting female characters with the ugly stick to "avert the male gaze" is actually a form of benevolent sexism. These people think women are so delicate they need smelling salts every time someone even glances at them sideways because they found them attractive.
The whole "you want corn in video games" argument is so dumb. Like there aren't mountains free corn on the internet already. Like several of these ugly character designs DON'T have corn of them online anyway since even if a minority of people find a character attractive, some artist's getting a commission. Except Concord. That one really crashed and burned... The point is that nobody is really looking for corn in their games, they're looking to immerse themselves in a fun fantasy and part of the fun is in the sexiness. Frankly I've always seen fan corn as a hallmark for success. The more people like your characters the more corn there will be.
We're not even asking for corn in the first place. We're not saying that every woman needs melons and wearing 2 inches of clothing. We just want them to be regularly attractive - something always made worse when people see that the model used is attractive, so why didn't they just use her appearance as is? It's similar to the problem I felt about Dragon Age: The Veilguard's character customisation around the behind; or lack of customisation. Gamers aren't asking for Saint's Row The Third or Street Fighter levels of customising - where characters can have booties big enough to have a postal code. But if you're not going to make any real difference between lowest and highest settings, then why even have the option? And as several female gamers pointed out, their real bodies are curvier than what DA:V offered. So those body shapes aren't even unrealistic.
so what if i do want a little t&a? isn't quite a lot of entertainment supposed to be heightened reality? especially comic book entertainment? bombastic action, heartbreaking drama, brave heroes, despicable villains, strong men and yes... (don't cancel me please) ...beautiful women.
hot take, the whole "objectification" and "male gaze" discourse on the internet has always been garbage. let people make whatever art they want, parenting idiots isn't their job.
@@greatBLT STOP THE PRESSES BLT HAS DECIDED WHAT IS AND IS NOT ATTRACTIVE TO EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET!!! Please, share your hubris with us that let's you decide what everybody thinks, please, be so kind, oh grand one!
Honestly. I think you broke this down better than I ever expected. I was not a fan of the uglification of Mary Jane for SM2 but I couldn’t find the words and whenever she was in scene, her face was just so distracting. I don’t know why I haven’t done this sooner but you earned my sub.
Going beyond MJ specifically and into the broader topic, I'm a woman and I like playing as attractive women in games. It annoys me when people point out that men in media are extremely muscular (to an unhealthy degree that female fans have no sympathy for) and people go "well that's a male power fantasy, but hot women are only there for males to objectify as part of that fantasy". So the female power fantasy is..... to look frumpy, I guess? To get everything you want by just rolling out of bed? That's boring! Female gamers have similar fantasies as men, or we wouldn't be playing games. It's to be a cool person who gets to do cool things in a cool place while looking cool! It's annoying that that aspect of my power fantasy gets erased to cater to the insecurities of people who don't even play games.
There was a study done that women tend to gravitate towards attractive female characters when given a choice. I cannot tell you how often I've played games with my sister and she always picks the prettiest girl on screen, or when i held Smash games where all the women usually picked Bayonetta or Zero Suit Samus.
As a straight average looking woman I do like to play as pretty, large chested women in my video games. If I'm going to have to see something repeatedly and/or for long periods of time, I at least want it to look good.
Every women I have played WOW with was either playing a night elf a blood elf or a draenei. Every women I have played League with is either playing a cute character like Lux, Annie and Lulu or some sexy bitch like Katarina, Ahri and Nidalee.
Baby face Peter and box chin Mary Jane proceeding to HR speak to each other and everyone else in the game while presenting a half baked story with too many ideas and even more universally panned stealth sections where you dont play as spiderman in a game where there's two spidermen.
"Do you want corn in video games?" Sure! Let's have corn on the cob, corn fritters, corn bread, elote, cream corn, kettle corn, caramel corn, corn casserole, corn salad, corn chowder, mac and corn, corn dogs, corn tortillas, corn massa for tamales... Have Peter Parker in a high stakes potluck mission where he needs to make a tasty side dish for MJ's grandma's birthday party and corn is her favorite ingredient. Seriously though, this censorship of our discourse needs to stop. We're grown-ups who need to be able to talk like grown-ups.
The problem is industries USE sex to disable your brain. You're dumb when you're horny, and corporates know that. Imagine if POLITICIANS did that. Advertise themselves through porn. There would be people voting for them JUST because their brain was disabled by horniness. Nothing wrong with horny, but let's not let it control our lives.
They shrank her mouth and swelled up her jaw, this was intentional and had nothing to do with 'realistic portrayal'. Also, they made an isekai about a guy who turned into a vending machine that everyone wanted to fuck, you can't stop people from sexualizing characters, no matter how hard you try.
The issue is ideology and intent. Whether it is female characters looking unattractive because male gaze bad, or villains who might be genocidal maniacs but would never say a racism or misgender, as long as choices are made with purposes other than making good books/games/movies etc. the end result will continue to be propaganda and not entertainment.
This is what I've been saying. There are plenty of great "woke" games that manage to be great because they are "woke" in addition to being good games, not instead of being good games. Likewise for "anti-woke" media. For every Concord, there is a Baldur's Gate 3. For every Mr Birchum, there is a King of the Hill. The biggest problem is when the people making the game/show/movie put their message above the entertainment value. Its not even just "political" issues either. If a game prioritizes monetization over entertainment, you get a game that's ruined by microtransactions The primary goal of entertainment should be to entertain. Relying solely on sending a message can work for books but video games are interactive media. Even a Telltale game needs to make sure its gameplay works properly and doesn't take away from the story
I agree, I don't think all characters need to necessarily look perfectly attractive, just appealing so that people don't want to stab their eyes out when the character is on screen. Where are their unique silhouettes? Tbh, a lot of these are just bad designs that don't even get across what type of character you're looking at. I've even seen fat characters that are still stylized so they look either big and imposing or goofy respectively that people love because their design matches their personality. The obsession with hyperrealism in games now doesn't help either.
This is what I felt while reading the Legend of Korra graphic novel set after the show. She and Asami were talking with Kya about their relationship where Kya reveals same-sex relationships were outlawed by Fire Lord Sozin (the bad guy behind the history in the previous series, The Last Airbender), and Korra says he's 'the worst'. Really? So even though Sozin started a Hundred-Year War, betrayed his best friend, wiped out the Air Nomads, and conquered parts of the Earth Kingdom, outlawing same-sex relationships is what makes him the worst? At that point, I seriously doubt it would've changed anyone's opinions on him.
On the Gambit thing, do people understand that there was a reason why Channing Tatum was specifically used here? It was a whole joke (referenced several times in his dialogue) about the fact that Tatum was supposed to play Gambit in a movie years ago that got cancelled. It wasn't because he was the best actor to play Gambit in a movie.
Actually, I would argue he was. Cajun accent is extremely hard to pull off but Channing did it really well. The whole reason he was considered a good choice by Fox is because he is literally Cajun himself.
@@vetarlittorf1807 , Channing Tatum isn't young and in his prime like comic book Gambit and comic book Rex Splode are, so him being picked for the role is terrible directing decisions on Disney's part.
Pretty sure only Channing thought he was going to make a Gambit movie. Remember when he proposed a Ghostbusters movie to go along with the lady version? Dude just made stuff up.
Actually male gaze does exist. Ever seen a rap video? But some people think that simply having a beautiful woman on screen is male gaze, which is nonsense. What woman doesn't want to be beautiful?
@@vetarlittorf1807 , rap videos is more of lesbian females and straight female gaze than male gaze, so the existence of male gaze doesn't exist outside of pornhubs on Instagram, MeWe, and Discord.
@@vetarlittorf1807 "Female gaze" exists as well, yet the ones screaming about male gaze have no problem with women objectifying men. See the last Thor movie where they "flicked" Thor's clothes off for laughs. Either it should all be okay, or none of it should be okay. And I personally vote for all okay. I'm tired of people telling me what I should be offended by. I can decide for myself.
My issue is not so much the attractiveness of the characters and more the video game industry's obssession with hyper photorealism. While the technology is impressive, I personally don't think its necessary. Be honest; do we really need need to see every single pore and wrinkle on a character's face? Is that important for our enjoyment of the game? To me, all this does is contribute to modern AAA games' bloated budgets and development cycles that somehow still result in buggy/unfinished games. And I won't deny it; the devs going out of their way to beat these characters with the Ugly Stick is a very awkward use of this technology. I don't know what they're so afraid of or what their motivations are. If anything, people getting turned on by your characters might lend a hand in your game's success-- just look at Overwatch and Marvel Rivals. And those games aren't photorealistic at all.
Its because many modern devices are activists and have no real talent. They neither can nor want to craft beautiful creative characters. They want to self insert into established IPs to leech off of the talent of their predecessors
Honestly I agree, I am fine with average looking women in games, I think Alloy looks fine in all honesty but when I look at MJ, her model just looks weird. It feels like they tried to age her up slightly but absolutely botched it, she looks genuinely uncanny. The realism mixed with the attempt to make these women look normal usually gives them an uncanny appearance. It looks halfassed in a way that screams either; no care while making the model or forced “representation” on what they think women want to look like in games. It’s fine to have normal looking women who haven’t had a 15 step face care routine and women who aren’t ozempic thin but some of these women just don’t look normal on these hyper realistic models.
Imagine a 4th wave feminist Utopia, where women freely gaze upon male beauty, while the evil male gaze is foiled at every turn. Wait, that's just contemporary Afghanistan.
Me too. It's always "Men will find the character attractive and that's bad." They'll use queer women as props all day long to justify a woman looking masculine or having shaved heads or never having male love interests but the moment it comes to people finding women hot in games we suddenly don't matter. Like sorry, I like Bayonetta and think she's hot. I'll thirst over both Snow and Fang in FF13. Sometimes for fun I'll make a female Boss run around in a thong and pasties in Saints Row. I look at AND draw sexy characters, it's not just men who enjoy them. "But it's sexist" make all the men sexy beefcakes and pretty boys then. Hell, Spider-Man 2 is a game where dudes in skin tight suits swing and pose around the city, they literally made the 2099 suit so tight you can see the musculature underneath it and gave it a bigger ass and package. But no, we can't have Mary Jane be a pretty woman even wearing fashionable yet modest clothes.
Isn’t it interesting that games from the East often use real-life models for their characters, and the results are so similar that you can easily put the model and character side by side and see they could be related? In contrast, in Western games-especially those featuring female characters-there always seems to be an excuse, whether it's sexism or technical limitations.
The whole thing feels kinda backhanded at a certain point. Like, think about it a minute: To make intentionally 'unattractive' women, you have to at a baseline, keep calling a lot of women unattractive. Like, think about it: If they made a character that looked like your best friend, and everyone jumps and down talking about how brave it is to have an unattractive... you're gonna take umbridge at it, because they're pretty much cutting your buddy down, and that *can't* feel good for them. I mean, it's one thing to think you're unattractive, and it's a very different thing for people to be getting major awards for the FACT you're unattractive.
Whereas your best friend is thinking "Hey, this character in a video game I like looks like me. Cool." While you're busy wishing your best friend looked more cornable.
@SageWon-1aussie OR, far more likely, their statement is false, cause like most people, they're not going to fight for themselves like they would for, say a beat friend, and aren't a moron who has never seen the internet. Meanwhile, I do we need to maybe talk about the issue that you can't think of anything as looking good without wanting to have sex with it, cause that feels like a weird thing to put into the conversation.
Look, this entire debate is hilariously stupid. 80% OF US ARE FUGLY AND WE'RE OK WITH IT AND AREN'T EMOTIONALLY SCARRED BY THE FACT WE AREN'T THE LATEST RENDITION OF JLO AND WE DON'T WANT THE GOOD LOOKING PEOPLE TO HAVE TO DRESS LIKE A MUSLIM BRIDE IN ORDER FOR US TO BE ABLE TO LIVE WITH OURSELVES. the 2% of us ugly people who HAVE this emotional reaction need psychological help, not the entire world to bend to their mental illness. Thank you.
Nice to see more people call this out. This whole conversation has gotten stupid. I can’t say I don’t like a design now without some a-hole online calling me a “gooner”. I’m fine with more risqué designs but I’ve never criticized a piece of media for not having that. I just want pretty/cool looking, well-designed characters. Obviously, design isn’t all that matters, but I really hate that people have shat on the art of character design so much and degraded it, to the point of talking like it’s irrelevant, just to win a stupid argument/feel validated when telling people to shut up about their opinions. I’ve laughed about poorly designed male and female characters or ones where it just doesn’t appeal to me because of some style or something. It’s not that I want them to all be in swimsuits or look like they’re models for an underwear commercial, I just want to like the look of the characters in the media I enjoy. If Aunt May had on an outfit that I thought was stupid then I’d call that out and I’m absolutely not attracted to Aunt May (at least not the comic version). She’s a sweet old lady but if you did something like gave her a 5head or put her in clown shoes I’m not gonna be happy about it. It’s such an inane position these weirdos have. They’ve committed to the dumbest line of argumentation and I hope people continue to call them out for it.
Totally fair take. I dont mind blatantly sexualized designs - if it fits the game. For example if the game doesnt take itself too seriously it can be good. But if it doesnt fit the tone of a more serious/realistic game, no. (maybe unless its anime styled) But with some specific exceptions, in most games the character that the player is supposed to like - particularly the romantic interest - should be at the very least pleasant to look at, but ideally very attractive. Its a power fantasy and it should be designed as such.
Whoever complained about Eve from Stellar Blade for being "Too sexy" must never meet a real woman in real life. She's not just being too sexy, she's also a fighter and has a personality. This is why Eastern video game development mostly the Asian developer know what they're doing, they make attractive female characters to help them sell the game. Because majority of the gamers are males and male like to play attractive female character. Remember Samus from Metroid? Remember Lara Croft from Tomb Raider? They're best example of badaas female characters.
I never understood why they made Mary Jane a reporter. She's basically Betty Brant from the comics. I'm there for old man Gambit. Nobody gets to stay young forever. Even the gods seem to age eventually. Haven't played it in a long while but did enjoy the Venom powers and the whole confrontation with Kraven as well as Miles' powers.
Because of the values of the people that made it. Reporter is a paragon of virtue to some, and model is the opposite to the same people- unless its OF model, which for reasons I can't understand gets more of a pass. At least they didn't go that way.
As someone on the left, try and summarize in a way that we tend to talk about things: by attempting to have a more realistic representation of women but not confronting own biases on that within feminism, women are not being portrayed realistically. I've been trying to learn more about these issues since the election and reddit got flooded with such much outright hate towards men and every group that shifted right, it 'woke' me up to the issues on the left -- as a gay trans guy, a lot of these issues like around women empowerment stories just don't directly effect me. Saw a comment (on reddit) saying this is from an issue in that in feminism, only one type of women tends to get centered at a time. It's very odd how much radical feminism and overlaps with radical religious sects around sexuality.
As someone fairly left leaning myself, yeah it’s been kinda gross watching the left destroy itself by attacking minorities and men in the wake of the election. Maybe don’t be blatantly racist and sexist when you’re trying to uphold yourself as the party of tolerance?
"It's very odd how much radical feminism and overlaps with radical religious sects around sexuality." EXACTLY - the Horeshoe Theory, in eternal effect. We humans can't seem to even try to stay away from the extremes of the political spectrum.
Subversion of beauty standards is always baffling and weird. Hire a beautiful face model, then change her to not look as beautiful, then claim that to make the character beautiful (as the chosen model who literally has the job because they are beautiful) is a problem. Then point out ‘why do you have a problem you sexist Biggit?!’ Because you pointed out their weird hypocrisy. Best example was Anya Chalotra cast as Yennefer in the Witcher show ‘to defy beauty standards’. Are you saying this woman isn’t beautiful? Doesn’t that make you exactly like the people you are calling racist for race swapping? wtf do you mean?!
Not even a trans issue, go to asian countries and a lot of trans are very passable for actual women. It is only the western ones that make so little effort they still look like they never transitioned
What do you have against Annette O'Toole? MJ in Spiderman 2 looks nothing like her. The only thing they share is their hair color. Even in the Smallville in her late 40s to 50s, she was an attractive mature woman. In her prime she's exactly what MJ should have looked like in the game.
The woman you’re thinking of was confirmed to be a temporary intern she had zero creative control over the game she just happened to take a photo with the game where she sort of looked like MJ and people ran with it Her name was Ashley Punik and thats not any of the directors names
@@wingsoffreedom3589 its not provable and this woman could be roped into something she had no part in You guys have often spread misinfo and just take it with absolute confidence Anti wokes also claim Neil Druckmann kicked Amy Hennig out of ND yet there is zero proof to this
That character design alone made me decide to never touch not only that game, but the previous one (as I am a PC gamer and these games are finally coming to PC). You can throw any insult you want at me and make fun of me for being superficial, but that won't make me pay for that game. This kind of character design is a message the devs send the players, and boycotting the game is my response to that message. Edit: Ho, and btw, the WHOLE POINT of MJ is that she is a bombshell. She is BY NATURE "sexualized" (what an awful word to try to demonize being human with sexappeal), you may not like it, but that won't change that reality.
You really should play 2018 Spider-Man it has a better vibe than the sequel, be sure to download the mod which changes peter’s face to be the original one the game shipped with along with the one that skips the Mj sequences
@@sunshoe-l5r Not really when you consider there is way more games out there than time to play them. I'd rather not support people that actively work to destroy gaming and push far left ideology.
People don’t want “realism” or “representation” in videogwmes, they want escapism and fantasy. They want characters that are implausibly attractive and capable. They want idealism, not reality. They get realism every day of their lives, so they want to get away from that in their entertainment.
Channing Tatum is actually 44 years old, and would have been 43 during filming but I digress. As for his looks, this is the same guy who played Magic Mike and was dating Zoë Kravitz, so I think he has that base covered, even if it's not to your taste. When Taylor Kitsch played Gambit in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, he was 27 years old during filming. Channing Tatum is only a year older than him, and he's been trying to play Gambit since before Kitsch got the role but his Gambit project never went ahead. The whole point of Tatum's Gambit in Deadpool & Wolverine is that he is meant to be that Gambit that never was, which is why he's older. He's playing an older Gambit. As a matter of fact, all of the heroes were meant to be older since they were played by the same actors who played them originally back in the day. Gambit even states in the film that he's not certain about his origins, and he may have been born in the void but he was not sure. As for the main point of this video, yes, they did Mary Jane dirty. The same goes for countless other female characters. Shit like that is why the gaming industry is in trouble now. The fans are done with it and voting with their wallets.
It still amazes me how Anita Sarkeesian shows up one day and destroys the industry's creative freedom for a decade. I hope more women start speaking up about this topic because we already know men aren't going to be taken seriously.
I love my girl characters looking hot! you wont catch my WoW characters looking ugly, you wont catch my sims looking ugly, i want to be invested in my character and i want to look at a pretty character.
If the "hot game character are gateway corn" argument are to be believed than I guess they should throw out most Hollywood actors then. Let's not pretend that photo compilations of celebrities don't exist.
"Do you want video games to become a gateway to p*rn?" Meanwhile they're praising and lusting after all of their "approved" characters and making tons of rule 34 art of them. Vampire Lady from Resident Evil 8 anyone?
With MJ's redesign and the replacement of the original PS4 Peter face model it honestly feels like they went in opposite directions for each character. Peter went from looking like he was 29 to looking like he was 23 and MJ went from looking like she was 23 to looking like she was 35. They genuinely look like an age gap couple in the sequel. 💀
I'm tired of the uglification of everything. Poster adverts in the UK now for clothes, lingerie, bikinis etc have so many unhealthy overweight people in now, it's disgusting to be confronted with in big cities. Modern ''art'' is literal junk and scribble. There seems to be an effort to make men weak and feminine, women over weight and masculine and none of us find each other attractive anymore. It's very demoralizing for a society.
About Ciri We don't know to be fair how will the game model look like. Geralt wasn't looking like himself at the cinematic as well. But yeah, the animation looks off.
Peoples faces can change when they grow shes litrealy just not a child anymore jfc shes straight out convintually attractive she just lools her age instead of looking 16
15:30 yeah that's been a common criticism of a lot of recent PlayStation games. In the story/narrative driven games they will often make you take breaks from gameplay to give character dialogue and to explore the environment at a slow pace. Personally I don't like it either and I found it so annoying while playing Spider-Man 2, especially when they make you play as Mary Jane in the main story or the deaf chick in her side missions. WHY DID THE DEAF CHICK HAVE HER OWN SIDE MISSIONS!?
It wouldn't be as big of a deal if they actually still looked like real people, instead of looking like someone took a real person and messed with sliders in a character creator just enough for it to not quite look right. I do feel like the word "ugly" is thrown around a little too loosely when people talk about this though. The MJ model still looks to me like someone who could actually exist. That character from Star Wars Outlaws, on the other hand, looks like it crawled straight out of the uncanny valley.
It was so uncomfortable seeimg marry Jane and peter kiss in this game, initially when i saw the leaked pictures of how Mary Jane looked i honestly thought it was peters mom. So it threw me off
I find nothing necessarily wrong with a woman who has a more square jaw, but MJ’s design was definitely a step down in general. And even less attractive people still try to look better in public when they’re working or going somewhere with friends.
Hey i heard somewhere that the og actress had a car accident and it affected her jaw, she had to have surgery and stuff(i think she wrote so on her insta), and i hear she stoped modeling cuz of the bullying, did you come across this info and what do u think bout it?
From what I saw, she made that decision to quit long before any bullying happened; if it happened at all. I haven't been on Twitter in a long time (quit it in early 2020, rejoined this past month), nor seen any evidence of her being bullied, and most of the people claiming she was bullied don't bother providing evidence, just using those claims as an excuse to attack fans for not liking the MJ design. If she was bullied and had people try and call her place of work, that's definitely wrong. But I would also say their anger is misdirected. She had no say in MJ's redesign. That was all the developers' idea. Don't harass her, but don't hate on her for something out of her control either.
She never said what year she had the car crash, i believe it was before she started modeling as you can go back years on her insta and she look exactly the same she did back before the first Spider-man game came out. So no, the car crash had no effect on her looks in the second game. She did not quick modelling because of bully. A Fan called her workplace and she said she does more then just MJ and and it's inappropriate to call her regardless of how much you like Spider-man.
I mean if her facial structure is indeed drastically different due to a car accident then that's terrible, but that still doesn't really explain why they chose to drastically change the model for MJ in the second game. If the actress is literally disfigured then there's nothing stopping them from simply recasting the physical model, or even just making a higher definition model based off her original 2018 facial scans.
I pretty much agree with you on everything. The real issue that that peoples complain the most about is modern western videogame character (and let's be honest TV shows and movies as well) being unAPEALing, wich is a totaly different point, wich make it worse when peoples deffending that shit use the korn argument as if they where reading a script... 14:30 but I must say I'm not sure about that, because if they wanted to change these models they had MORE than enough time to do so, kinda like the first Sonic movie, meanwhile that one fable character has been a meme for years at this point
People saying, all in video games have to be like in real life are simply Dumb, comics or games are phantasy and if a character was designed to be attractive must be attractive, period.
I recently played a videogame called "Enslaved" for Xbox360 on my series X. You play a big buff dude named "Monkey" and you are forced to help a woman named "Trip" the game has the two of them work together to accomplish missions. It was a breath of fresh air. The woman was strong and feminine. She didn't talk down to you or try to one up you. It was a mutual respect on both parts. I LOVED that game. And I miss those types of female characters. They had humility and kindness in their hearts. Not Misandry and feminism.
I’ve been saying this everywhere and I’ll continue to say it till I’m blue in the face. People are arguing in extremes one side wants the eve from stellar blade and the other side wants Jordan from intergalactic. I just want more Elena Fishers out there we don’t get many they always fall into one of these 2 camps these days
I still can't believe Fable Legends, a game that would've starred several great heroines; who were *actually female,* was cancelled and now we're getting a new Fable game with... ugh... it hurts to even think about!
Heres what I think, it doesn't matter what a character looks like, "ugly" or not. What matters is that it's the creators vision, if they want a character to look like that because its what they envision thats great! But the moment someone else steps in and says, "You need to change this" because its not "realistic". Thats when we have a problem. As long as the appearance fits the character and who they are, thats a good character.
According to Insomniac they used Stephany Tyler Jones as a reference for both the first and second game. According to Insomniac she looks different in the second game, because of engine advancements. They changed Peter Parker to look more like Tom Holland, but claim that Mary Jane was the exact same design. Mary Jane in part 2 also has this strange uncanny likeness to writer Ashley Propik, who according to herself was just an intern during development of this game. Nothing to see here Insomniac claims... How gullible do they think we are?
I love how developers say that the people complaining about overweight or unattractive female characters have never seen a woman. Have these people never been to a beach? There are lots of women who look like the main character in stellar blade. If insecurity were a skill tree, those people would be maxed out.
Weird mental gymnastics on the part of the industry to equate anything beautiful to corn. Art is at its best when we are shown beauty. Beauty can be sensual, impactful, chaotic, even mundane. Beauty arouses the senses. To strip away beauty is to strip away art.
She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to censor art using shame but only until it doesn't get in the way of her own tastes. She's still trying to pretend there was any merit whatsoever to this "movement" in the first place. Whirlwinds are being reaped.
I think the perfect example is how beautiful Aloy was in the first Horizon game and how they literally made her fatter and uglier in the second game for no reason, and I’m saying this as a woman. Mary Jane in the second game looks 55 years old with greasy hair. She looks like Peter’s mom!
@@cecilyerker oh my god I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw mj in two and said she looks like she can be his mother. And Alloy in forbidden west looks like she's having an allergic reaction.
I agree but I disagree at 13:40. The clip you show is not soft core corn because she is showing skin. Is it titillating, sure but that does not mean its corn or soft core corn. Showing a bit of skin, depending on the context and how much, does not equal corn
Solid points! Also your point was proven on the Witcher 4 trailer. Most people who were mad that they have to play an “ugly women” were called out for A not playing the games and seeing this was coming and b …. Ciri looks good, people trippin
I mean there's something to be said about CDPR's new hiring practices and how they're seemingly excluding men. I believe we can also have a conversation about whether or not Ciri being a Witcher goes against the established lore. But when I saw people saying Ciri looked genuinely ugly and Butched up, I'm like y'all are tripping, she doesn't look that much different from the previous game and she certainly doesn't look ugly.
@@Drums_of_Liberation , I have no issues with the lore being broken as long as I can play as a beautiful female character. For example Uta from One Piece breaks the One Piece world, but she's beautiful hence why I bought her figure, music soundtrack in Pirate Warriors 4, and the playable character of Uta.
It is simple in the end, if games where they do these things stop selling, it will go away again. And we already see the power of the consumer in effect, some developers are in deep trouble after some of their "choices"
Some people are trying to gaslight us that this is not actually happening, but it definitely is. They're intentionally making women ugly and everybody can see it. They're giving the message that being attracted to beautiful women is an inherently bad thing and that kinda rubs me the wrong way.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
What’s crazy is they cast beautiful actresses then render them into significantly less attractive characters
Consistently. It's absolutely insane.
> Make terrible woke characters that nobody likes
>People criticise
> Call critics some kind of -phobe or -ism
Clown show lol
That should be offensive to them.
@@azazelgrigori9244 "Oh btw, we'll make the character a lot less attractive because we want her to look average, not super hot like you."
Yeah no, that the opposite of offensive.
Looks like Jordan is just Tatiana without any makeup.
@@MrDezokokotar I disagree. If I put myself through the work to look good, and therefore take pride in it, and I were to play a character, I'd want them to look just as good if not better. To do so would actually mean all that work I've done was meaningless. And it'd be a blow to my ego.
However, I bet a good amount of those actresses are activists too.
What’s ironic too is Grace Randolph complained in her Superman trailer breakdown that the DCU doesn’t have enough “beefcakes” aka attractive men, but she always complains the “oversexualization” of women in Hollywood. This is indicative of how many people in the industry think, for some reason catering to the “female gaze” is fine, whereas catering to the “male gaze” is looked down upon, even when it comes to superhero films/console video games, where the vast majority of its audience are male.
The Acolyte. Look at how the filmmakers made female characters to be masculine, yet they seemed to sexualised that "Smilo Ren" guy.
Grace is a NYC liberal elitists. She has been handed everything from her little bubble . How do you think she affords an NYC penthouse ? It ain’t from YT videos .
Activists almost always hold double standards.
Grace is really dumb, so I wouldn't hold her as the standard tbh. But I see the point.
Unironically, the female gaze described by feminist does not equate the male gaze in the female context, rather the female gaze is often described as women positively and empowering by feeling and emotions unlike the male which seeks to objectify women.
"Women care more about what women look like than men do" 👏👏👏👏👏👏
W surprisingly true comment!
Then why are mostly men complaining about these designs?
@@mistysh7717
Because the majority of gamers are men.
There are women, like JB, who bring it up, but even if a larger percentage of female gamers complain, their gross numbers are still smaller than the number of men that complain.
And men don't like ugly things either.
@@mistysh7717 Predominantly men play console and PC games. So most people who will be complaining will be men.
@@mistysh7717 Because more men played it than women
@laphiammocooks1917 This is not answering my comment, we already know that. If WOMEN care more about women's looks why are men complaining about it?
The game developers purposely made Mary Jane ugly and added mini games that people said they didn't want in the game. Also having attractive female characters doesn't equal pornography and you can't stop everyone from objectifying woman either.
Then those same people go home & produce oF content
@@batmanvsuperman_ , I would've bought a PS5 if they made the MJ segments in the PS4 Remastered and Spider-Man 2 with Spinneret instead of it being boring Vicki Vale and Lois Lane missions, and it's one of the many many reasons I switched from a PS4 to an Xbox Series X.
I still have yet to hear a rational argument for why objectification of fake characters is a problem.
That's what I'm saying.
Beautiful doesn't mean porn. When did liberals become these puritans?
Too all the other copes for why women do not look normal in games as much are also dumb. They do it because 1) beauty i guess is "unrealistic standards for women", which how freaking fragile do they think we are? Besides wishing my cup size was bigger i am not insecure about a video game character looking cute/ pretty. Or 2) trans representation. Which I'm sure trans people want to look like the gender they are trying to be and not the most androgynous grody looking creature. Like, are they saying trans are inherently ugly?? Just give a guy a girls voice and vise versa if they want trans representation.
@@wingsoffreedom3589
Characters in a videogame are, in fact, objects.
people will mod in spider man 1 mj into sm2 when it releases on pc. The fact that blackcat looks the same in 1and 2 is proof the mj design was done on purpose.
funny she is a lesbian sure its a coincidence she is the only attractive female character
actually I'd argue they made her look BETTER in 2, but your point still stands.
they will mod in some random hot woman actually most of the time
Like how dying light 2 has a mod that completely whitewashes the main female character
what was done on purpose was putting her in a mission with Miles, someone who has 0% chemistry with, I was angry during that mission, everyone loves felicia and peter
@@chandlerburse lol how come i can tell that you only have a problem with it being in that direction
The “YOU WANT CORN IN VIDEO GAMES” argument is dumb. If I were an actress who modeled for games, and when it came out, I was made to be less attractive in the game than I am in real life all for the sake of some weird idea that is empowering to do so or something, I’d be offended. Lol
Also, yeah. Spiderman 2 felt very, very safe. Seems like they never want to tell a risky story about the symbiote and the actual effects it has on Peter.
Exactly. The male equivalent would be using your likeness in a game, but giving you a micropenis for no reason. I'd be pissed
Im sure they tell the actress theyre going to change her appearance. In fact its pretty flattering to be told "youre too hot for this character, we need to make you more mundane."
the creator of Bayonetta has the exact same body type as Bayonetta herself, and even in the third and last game of Bayonetta she still has the same body type, so clearly characters like MJ and Ciri being made ugly on purpose is done for a political agenda.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hrAyo? 👀
@@Keurgui1 , Bayonetta is what convinced me to getting a Nintendo Switch in the first place, but I've bought other Switch exclusives years after buying my first Switch model.
There's actually been studies on people choosing attractive Avatar characters in video games and they found that folks became more confident they played that character. And well sometimes they would feel self-conscious that they didn't match. It would actually encourage them to work out.
So in a way we're robbing ourselves of a push forward.
What you have to realize is this is by design
I doubt many gamers are encouraged to workout.
Considering those idiots are offended by healthy people and call it fat shaming when someone works to lose weight and feel better... they really don't want that push. Not for themselves and not for others who could be less miserable than they are.
Edit: phone typos
There's an art to purposely making hideous avatars, but, yeah, most people prefer attractive avatars. Being hot is a common power fantasy, and there's nothing wrong with it.
@@cecilyerkerSatan’s design
No one wants porn in games, that’s literally just a red herring argument that these idiot game journos use to discredit the entire argument. Sure there are gooners but it is not the same as wanting porn in games.
Not to mention that the whole "don't sexualize women" argument, the ONE talking point from feminists that i agree with, comes mostly from promiscuous women... i don't get it! Plus the fact that when males are sexualized (almost every superhero movie with a "handsome muscular" hero he needs to be shirtless for no reason at all. Arrow and the MCU shows that)
And i gotta say, there's a difference between making a sexualized character, and a beautiful one. Easily summarized by the difference between "hot" and "pretty", i want the latter. These people can't stand the latter and claim is "sexualizing", so of course it will mean the the way to not sexualize, is to uglify
It's not about having corn, they go out of their way to suck the beauty out of women who were attractive before, it's not just games it's comics, cartoons and movies.
Notice how this is only happening to women while men get to stay attractive.
Exactly. It's useless anyway, because of Rule 34. No matter how much effort of those activists in making female character ugly, someone would make the 🌽 fan arts of those characters or at least a sexy cosplay of those characters.
Well, not entirely true... They changed Peter's face too in Miles Morales DLC and SM2, and he looks so much worse than before!
@@takemeseriouslyplx2124 They didn't change him to deliberately make him ugly. They changed the face model to better match Yuri Lowenthal.
@@trueLuminus which defeat the whole purpose of making him a young adult dealing with adult problems while being spiderman in the first game. He's not a teenager anymore and he doesn't need to look like one. I don't know what "better match" mean but you can really feel Peter's emotions with his old face, the new face don't.
@@user-is9nm4vw8j That may be true, but the problem we're talking about is the deliberate act of making women ugly; especially, when they were otherwise really attractive before. This is something that is absolutely not done to men. Ugly men characters are either a joke or evil like 99% of the time if not 100%.
I just find it funny how insomniac tried to gaslight us into thinking nothing was changed as if we couldn't just go back to the first game and compare the two versions.
Wait until you see Jean Grey in Insomniac's upcoming Wolverine game......
Same principle, a character who is intentionally beautiful in the comics handed the uglification stick in gaming.
To be blunt, it's simply because the "modern audience" has deemed female characters offensive, so let's not have them look feminine in any way.
@@zrowngctrThere is no 'modern audience.' There's only activist developers, and chronically online 'allies,' the vast majority who don't even play videogames.
It wasnt a huge deal until they lied. Bold faced liars. Pissing on fans and telling them its rain.
@@iceman00behave Saying as someone on the left, I've seen the same argument is used on left -- the idea that people complaining about MJ's appurtenance aren't actually video gamers.
Video games appeal to a very wide segment of the population. While sometimes activists and/or grifters get involved on both sides that don't play video games, there's defiantly people on both sides of this arguments playing the games. To decrease polarization and increase more mutually respectful conversations, I don't think it's useful to state otherwise for either side.
Getting out of my echo chamber, a lot of these left vs right media conflicts feel like inability to communicate and take each other's sides seriously and assumptions of the worst of the other.
There are some very vocal misogyny and other issues on the right who use the term "woke" and so people on the left now associate any use of "woke" or complaints about diversity as bigotry (as typical -- the loudest and most annoying people tend to characterize entire groups for those not in the group). I appreciate JesterBell avoiding the term as does increase the reach of her message to the left who needs to hear it. I've seen people on left wanting to more voice similar issues, but feel like they can't else they're be assumed to be on the right. Like with right, there's also loud and annoying people on left that tend to characterize the entire left for those not within the left (which tend more towards beneficial sexist towards women but misandrists towards men -- there's differing sexist issues on both sides)
@@hefoxedI appreciate your willingness for discussion, but I'd argue that this isn't even a left vs right issue. It's a demographic & human nature issue. While true that a wide variety of people play games now, the term 'gaming' applies to everything from elden ring to bejeweled. And likewise, it encompasses the young guy who spends multiple hours a week on his console and PC, to the middle aged woman who plays match 3 games on her phone occasionally.
The fact is, people who would own a PS5, and buy Spiderman 2 would skew primarily male. Comics were read primarily by males, and Peter Parker's 'nerd who becomes a superhero and gets the girl' was a trope designed to appeal to males. Males like attractive women. But just as Jesterbell said in this video, women do too. So it's not like the average woman is cheering in front of her TV that Mary Jane is suddenly less attractive than the last game. Do we see women making themselves look worse on social media using using filters, photoshop, etc? Or are they using those tools to make themselves look more attractive? That's not misogyny, or whatever nonsense the vocal online crowd are using, it's a biological impulse.
Theres a difference between overtly sexualizing a character and making them conventionally attractive. MJ is supposed to be the latter.
Wasn't MJ a supermodel in the comics though? She is meant to be like incredibly gorgeous. She has red hair because that is widely considered the sexiest hair color. In fact, I would argue that sexuality is a part of her character.
@@vetarlittorf1807 , MJ was a supermodel from the 60's to the 90's, and then the 2000's to now made her an actress and a reporter, but even whenever the first Spider-Girl comics were published had MJ as a bikini model, so MJ being an actress and reporter is more of a modern change to her character that neither the Silver and Bronze Age comics didn't have.
She is supposed to be out of Peter’s league anyways. There is a reason him being a nerd in the beginning and working his way up to get her affection is a popular trope. It falls flat if she’s equal to him in looks and confidence, and it falls even harder if it’s the other way around; a story about a low status woman winning the approval of a hunk. Things don’t work like that irl
Yeah, I like it when the characters i play are conventionally attractive, not in a sexuell way, but it's just nice to look at. I'm a guy and i like it when my male protagonists are good-looking too. Like i much prefer playing as Witcher 3 Geralt vs Witcher 2 Geralt, cause i think he's more handsome.
*slow clap*
Hangups is the right word. The consultants and HR people who gained obscene amounts of power to influence decisions like these are either people who had major hangups to begin with, or developed "professional hangups" due to their training to seek out "problematic" stuff. Either way, they're weirdos as a result, and way out of touch with normal people.
And yes, deliberately hitting female characters with the ugly stick to "avert the male gaze" is actually a form of benevolent sexism. These people think women are so delicate they need smelling salts every time someone even glances at them sideways because they found them attractive.
The whole "you want corn in video games" argument is so dumb. Like there aren't mountains free corn on the internet already. Like several of these ugly character designs DON'T have corn of them online anyway since even if a minority of people find a character attractive, some artist's getting a commission. Except Concord. That one really crashed and burned... The point is that nobody is really looking for corn in their games, they're looking to immerse themselves in a fun fantasy and part of the fun is in the sexiness. Frankly I've always seen fan corn as a hallmark for success. The more people like your characters the more corn there will be.
I honestly think it's latent puritanism leaking in from America's collective ID.
It's strange how we've gotten to the point where a pretty face equals porn.
We should be able to have nudity in them though. Game of Thrones was widely successful to a wide audience with lots of naked women.
We're not even asking for corn in the first place. We're not saying that every woman needs melons and wearing 2 inches of clothing. We just want them to be regularly attractive - something always made worse when people see that the model used is attractive, so why didn't they just use her appearance as is?
It's similar to the problem I felt about Dragon Age: The Veilguard's character customisation around the behind; or lack of customisation. Gamers aren't asking for Saint's Row The Third or Street Fighter levels of customising - where characters can have booties big enough to have a postal code. But if you're not going to make any real difference between lowest and highest settings, then why even have the option? And as several female gamers pointed out, their real bodies are curvier than what DA:V offered. So those body shapes aren't even unrealistic.
so what if i do want a little t&a? isn't quite a lot of entertainment supposed to be heightened reality? especially comic book entertainment? bombastic action, heartbreaking drama, brave heroes, despicable villains, strong men and yes... (don't cancel me please) ...beautiful women.
hot take, the whole "objectification" and "male gaze" discourse on the internet has always been garbage.
let people make whatever art they want, parenting idiots isn't their job.
Not a hot take, it's a product, not a work of art, this is just how you leave a bad review, talk about it online. Not hard to understand.
It is also another example of the hyper-feminist reality we find ourselves in. Like the largest problem in the world right now is the "male gaze"....
@@gumpthegreat1 You could argue that the gaze of man is one of the most powerful forces in the world.
Men aren't allowed to like things. The sooner we stop them, the sooner we heal
@@gumpthegreat1 the biggest issue is our species still breathing
Meanwhile men (like Kratos) can be buff in their 50s and walk around half naked all the time and those people don't cry.
Kratos isn't particularly attractive, though. Main reason I didn't pick up the series.
@@greatBLTplenty of women would disagree with you about that lol
@@greatBLT STOP THE PRESSES BLT HAS DECIDED WHAT IS AND IS NOT ATTRACTIVE TO EVERYBODY ON THE PLANET!!!
Please, share your hubris with us that let's you decide what everybody thinks, please, be so kind, oh grand one!
These same idiots would see the Venus di Milo and be like “why do these sculptors have to keep making corn?!”
Honestly. I think you broke this down better than I ever expected. I was not a fan of the uglification of Mary Jane for SM2 but I couldn’t find the words and whenever she was in scene, her face was just so distracting. I don’t know why I haven’t done this sooner but you earned my sub.
Going beyond MJ specifically and into the broader topic, I'm a woman and I like playing as attractive women in games. It annoys me when people point out that men in media are extremely muscular (to an unhealthy degree that female fans have no sympathy for) and people go "well that's a male power fantasy, but hot women are only there for males to objectify as part of that fantasy". So the female power fantasy is..... to look frumpy, I guess? To get everything you want by just rolling out of bed? That's boring! Female gamers have similar fantasies as men, or we wouldn't be playing games. It's to be a cool person who gets to do cool things in a cool place while looking cool! It's annoying that that aspect of my power fantasy gets erased to cater to the insecurities of people who don't even play games.
There was a study done that women tend to gravitate towards attractive female characters when given a choice. I cannot tell you how often I've played games with my sister and she always picks the prettiest girl on screen, or when i held Smash games where all the women usually picked Bayonetta or Zero Suit Samus.
As a straight average looking woman I do like to play as pretty, large chested women in my video games. If I'm going to have to see something repeatedly and/or for long periods of time, I at least want it to look good.
Every women I have played WOW with was either playing a night elf a blood elf or a draenei. Every women I have played League with is either playing a cute character like Lux, Annie and Lulu or some sexy bitch like Katarina, Ahri and Nidalee.
Baby face Peter and box chin Mary Jane proceeding to HR speak to each other and everyone else in the game while presenting a half baked story with too many ideas and even more universally panned stealth sections where you dont play as spiderman in a game where there's two spidermen.
Haha so true! All of it!
Yep. Pretty spot on. Also, why did they make Peter look like a teenager while MJ looks like a 40 year-old? Pretty weird, if you ask me.
@@RogueDawson17 it seems it was a self-insert. Which makes it even more creepy to be honest if that is truly the case.
Mj looks like chucky
Ok but she has a stronger chin than Chucky tho.
Looks like Nicacado Avocado
Every time I see her face and hear how she breathes, it makes me think she has some sort of facial deformity that constricts her respiratory system.
She looks like Robert Z'Dar in a wig.
So I looked up Robert Z'Dar and I recommend whoever reads this comment do as well.... it's.... it's really accurate...
MJ in Insomniac Spider-Man 2 doesn’t look like Peter’s girlfriend. She looks like his mum.
"Do you want corn in video games?"
Sure! Let's have corn on the cob, corn fritters, corn bread, elote, cream corn, kettle corn, caramel corn, corn casserole, corn salad, corn chowder, mac and corn, corn dogs, corn tortillas, corn massa for tamales... Have Peter Parker in a high stakes potluck mission where he needs to make a tasty side dish for MJ's grandma's birthday party and corn is her favorite ingredient.
Seriously though, this censorship of our discourse needs to stop. We're grown-ups who need to be able to talk like grown-ups.
Unfortunately advertisers are fucking babies and as long as that's a thing we're stuck with using stupid euphemisms like "corn" and "self-unalive".
Talk to youtube.
I just don't understand why sexuality is such a bad thing. It's a part of the human experience. Let people be horny.
Istg preach
Exactly . Look at art throughout the ages . Greek , Roman , etc . The sculptures were not ugly people .
LOL
Making characters that cis males are attracted to offends people who are neither.
The problem is industries USE sex to disable your brain. You're dumb when you're horny, and corporates know that.
Imagine if POLITICIANS did that. Advertise themselves through porn. There would be people voting for them JUST because their brain was disabled by horniness.
Nothing wrong with horny, but let's not let it control our lives.
They shrank her mouth and swelled up her jaw, this was intentional and had nothing to do with 'realistic portrayal'.
Also, they made an isekai about a guy who turned into a vending machine that everyone wanted to fuck, you can't stop people from sexualizing characters, no matter how hard you try.
The issue is ideology and intent. Whether it is female characters looking unattractive because male gaze bad, or villains who might be genocidal maniacs but would never say a racism or misgender, as long as choices are made with purposes other than making good books/games/movies etc. the end result will continue to be propaganda and not entertainment.
This is what I've been saying. There are plenty of great "woke" games that manage to be great because they are "woke" in addition to being good games, not instead of being good games. Likewise for "anti-woke" media. For every Concord, there is a Baldur's Gate 3. For every Mr Birchum, there is a King of the Hill.
The biggest problem is when the people making the game/show/movie put their message above the entertainment value. Its not even just "political" issues either. If a game prioritizes monetization over entertainment, you get a game that's ruined by microtransactions
The primary goal of entertainment should be to entertain. Relying solely on sending a message can work for books but video games are interactive media. Even a Telltale game needs to make sure its gameplay works properly and doesn't take away from the story
I agree, I don't think all characters need to necessarily look perfectly attractive, just appealing so that people don't want to stab their eyes out when the character is on screen. Where are their unique silhouettes? Tbh, a lot of these are just bad designs that don't even get across what type of character you're looking at.
I've even seen fat characters that are still stylized so they look either big and imposing or goofy respectively that people love because their design matches their personality.
The obsession with hyperrealism in games now doesn't help either.
This is what I felt while reading the Legend of Korra graphic novel set after the show. She and Asami were talking with Kya about their relationship where Kya reveals same-sex relationships were outlawed by Fire Lord Sozin (the bad guy behind the history in the previous series, The Last Airbender), and Korra says he's 'the worst'.
Really? So even though Sozin started a Hundred-Year War, betrayed his best friend, wiped out the Air Nomads, and conquered parts of the Earth Kingdom, outlawing same-sex relationships is what makes him the worst? At that point, I seriously doubt it would've changed anyone's opinions on him.
Very well said, OP. 👏
On the Gambit thing, do people understand that there was a reason why Channing Tatum was specifically used here? It was a whole joke (referenced several times in his dialogue) about the fact that Tatum was supposed to play Gambit in a movie years ago that got cancelled. It wasn't because he was the best actor to play Gambit in a movie.
Actually, I would argue he was. Cajun accent is extremely hard to pull off but Channing did it really well. The whole reason he was considered a good choice by Fox is because he is literally Cajun himself.
@@vetarlittorf1807 , Channing Tatum isn't young and in his prime like comic book Gambit and comic book Rex Splode are, so him being picked for the role is terrible directing decisions on Disney's part.
I think if he lost a little weight in his face, he could make it work even at his age. He’d have to thin down a bit.
Her problem isn't that tatum played gamit in d&w, it's the fact that "fans" unironiclly want him to play gamit in future movies
Pretty sure only Channing thought he was going to make a Gambit movie. Remember when he proposed a Ghostbusters movie to go along with the lady version? Dude just made stuff up.
There is no such thing as "male gaze", there is only "pathological envy". Some people can't bear other people's beauty and good fortune.
Actually male gaze does exist. Ever seen a rap video? But some people think that simply having a beautiful woman on screen is male gaze, which is nonsense. What woman doesn't want to be beautiful?
Male gaze is a thing. Men look at women, in part, as sexual objects. And there is nothing wrong with it. Neither is anything wrong with female gaze.
@@vetarlittorf1807 , rap videos is more of lesbian females and straight female gaze than male gaze, so the existence of male gaze doesn't exist outside of pornhubs on Instagram, MeWe, and Discord.
@@vetarlittorf1807 "Female gaze" exists as well, yet the ones screaming about male gaze have no problem with women objectifying men. See the last Thor movie where they "flicked" Thor's clothes off for laughs. Either it should all be okay, or none of it should be okay. And I personally vote for all okay. I'm tired of people telling me what I should be offended by. I can decide for myself.
Another reason can be that these activists are sexist and dislike men for their gender. Therefore they try to ruin the game for men only.
My issue is not so much the attractiveness of the characters and more the video game industry's obssession with hyper photorealism. While the technology is impressive, I personally don't think its necessary. Be honest; do we really need need to see every single pore and wrinkle on a character's face? Is that important for our enjoyment of the game? To me, all this does is contribute to modern AAA games' bloated budgets and development cycles that somehow still result in buggy/unfinished games.
And I won't deny it; the devs going out of their way to beat these characters with the Ugly Stick is a very awkward use of this technology. I don't know what they're so afraid of or what their motivations are. If anything, people getting turned on by your characters might lend a hand in your game's success-- just look at Overwatch and Marvel Rivals. And those games aren't photorealistic at all.
You mean you don't want to see normal, plain and average characters in your escapism?
Its because many modern devices are activists and have no real talent. They neither can nor want to craft beautiful creative characters. They want to self insert into established IPs to leech off of the talent of their predecessors
There’s a lot of overlap between those issues though I’d say most real women are prettier than MJ here
Honestly I agree, I am fine with average looking women in games, I think Alloy looks fine in all honesty but when I look at MJ, her model just looks weird. It feels like they tried to age her up slightly but absolutely botched it, she looks genuinely uncanny.
The realism mixed with the attempt to make these women look normal usually gives them an uncanny appearance. It looks halfassed in a way that screams either; no care while making the model or forced “representation” on what they think women want to look like in games.
It’s fine to have normal looking women who haven’t had a 15 step face care routine and women who aren’t ozempic thin but some of these women just don’t look normal on these hyper realistic models.
I always found it trashy to use real life models in video games instead of hiring an artist to design someone unique.
And it only seems to affect female characters. Male characters can remain normal, or get objectified
This is not equality
Imagine a 4th wave feminist Utopia, where women freely gaze upon male beauty, while the evil male gaze is foiled at every turn.
Wait, that's just contemporary Afghanistan.
Yeah, men in video games look "normal".
Have I got a bridge to sell you, it's a real bargain....
As a bisexual woman, this frustrates me. It's like I'm not allowed to have fun with games either.
Fuck it. I'mma play Stellar Blade again.
Stellar Blade comes off as a game that isnt even good its just talked about a ton because of the stupid controversy
Looks like a knock off Bayonetta
Me too. It's always "Men will find the character attractive and that's bad." They'll use queer women as props all day long to justify a woman looking masculine or having shaved heads or never having male love interests but the moment it comes to people finding women hot in games we suddenly don't matter.
Like sorry, I like Bayonetta and think she's hot. I'll thirst over both Snow and Fang in FF13. Sometimes for fun I'll make a female Boss run around in a thong and pasties in Saints Row. I look at AND draw sexy characters, it's not just men who enjoy them.
"But it's sexist" make all the men sexy beefcakes and pretty boys then. Hell, Spider-Man 2 is a game where dudes in skin tight suits swing and pose around the city, they literally made the 2099 suit so tight you can see the musculature underneath it and gave it a bigger ass and package. But no, we can't have Mary Jane be a pretty woman even wearing fashionable yet modest clothes.
Isn’t it interesting that games from the East often use real-life models for their characters, and the results are so similar that you can easily put the model and character side by side and see they could be related? In contrast, in Western games-especially those featuring female characters-there always seems to be an excuse, whether it's sexism or technical limitations.
@@ToxicVex267 Eves model doesnt look exactly like her
@@ToxicVex267 also yes we get it you think Japan is on your side and you worship them
Go there and annoy them yourself weeb and see how it goes
The whole thing feels kinda backhanded at a certain point. Like, think about it a minute: To make intentionally 'unattractive' women, you have to at a baseline, keep calling a lot of women unattractive. Like, think about it: If they made a character that looked like your best friend, and everyone jumps and down talking about how brave it is to have an unattractive... you're gonna take umbridge at it, because they're pretty much cutting your buddy down, and that *can't* feel good for them. I mean, it's one thing to think you're unattractive, and it's a very different thing for people to be getting major awards for the FACT you're unattractive.
Whereas your best friend is thinking "Hey, this character in a video game I like looks like me. Cool."
While you're busy wishing your best friend looked more cornable.
@SageWon-1aussie OR, far more likely, their statement is false, cause like most people, they're not going to fight for themselves like they would for, say a beat friend, and aren't a moron who has never seen the internet.
Meanwhile, I do we need to maybe talk about the issue that you can't think of anything as looking good without wanting to have sex with it, cause that feels like a weird thing to put into the conversation.
Look, this entire debate is hilariously stupid.
80% OF US ARE FUGLY AND WE'RE OK WITH IT AND AREN'T EMOTIONALLY SCARRED BY THE FACT WE AREN'T THE LATEST RENDITION OF JLO AND WE DON'T WANT THE GOOD LOOKING PEOPLE TO HAVE TO DRESS LIKE A MUSLIM BRIDE IN ORDER FOR US TO BE ABLE TO LIVE WITH OURSELVES.
the 2% of us ugly people who HAVE this emotional reaction need psychological help, not the entire world to bend to their mental illness.
Thank you.
Nice to see more people call this out. This whole conversation has gotten stupid. I can’t say I don’t like a design now without some a-hole online calling me a “gooner”. I’m fine with more risqué designs but I’ve never criticized a piece of media for not having that. I just want pretty/cool looking, well-designed characters.
Obviously, design isn’t all that matters, but I really hate that people have shat on the art of character design so much and degraded it, to the point of talking like it’s irrelevant, just to win a stupid argument/feel validated when telling people to shut up about their opinions. I’ve laughed about poorly designed male and female characters or ones where it just doesn’t appeal to me because of some style or something.
It’s not that I want them to all be in swimsuits or look like they’re models for an underwear commercial, I just want to like the look of the characters in the media I enjoy.
If Aunt May had on an outfit that I thought was stupid then I’d call that out and I’m absolutely not attracted to Aunt May (at least not the comic version). She’s a sweet old lady but if you did something like gave her a 5head or put her in clown shoes I’m not gonna be happy about it. It’s such an inane position these weirdos have. They’ve committed to the dumbest line of argumentation and I hope people continue to call them out for it.
Totally fair take. I dont mind blatantly sexualized designs - if it fits the game. For example if the game doesnt take itself too seriously it can be good. But if it doesnt fit the tone of a more serious/realistic game, no. (maybe unless its anime styled)
But with some specific exceptions, in most games the character that the player is supposed to like - particularly the romantic interest - should be at the very least pleasant to look at, but ideally very attractive. Its a power fantasy and it should be designed as such.
Whoever complained about Eve from Stellar Blade for being "Too sexy" must never meet a real woman in real life. She's not just being too sexy, she's also a fighter and has a personality. This is why Eastern video game development mostly the Asian developer know what they're doing, they make attractive female characters to help them sell the game. Because majority of the gamers are males and male like to play attractive female character.
Remember Samus from Metroid? Remember Lara Croft from Tomb Raider?
They're best example of badaas female characters.
I never understood why they made Mary Jane a reporter. She's basically Betty Brant from the comics. I'm there for old man Gambit. Nobody gets to stay young forever. Even the gods seem to age eventually.
Haven't played it in a long while but did enjoy the Venom powers and the whole confrontation with Kraven as well as Miles' powers.
They wanted to get away from her model aesthetic for some stupid reason.
@@SlickZero1028 ThE MaLe Gaze!
Because of the values of the people that made it. Reporter is a paragon of virtue to some, and model is the opposite to the same people- unless its OF model, which for reasons I can't understand gets more of a pass. At least they didn't go that way.
@@StaringIntoAbyssLOL no one considers a reporter a paragon of virtue. What you still think it's 1938 when journalism actually was about the truth?
@@Drums_of_Liberation the people I'm talking about don't care about truth.
As someone on the left, try and summarize in a way that we tend to talk about things: by attempting to have a more realistic representation of women but not confronting own biases on that within feminism, women are not being portrayed realistically.
I've been trying to learn more about these issues since the election and reddit got flooded with such much outright hate towards men and every group that shifted right, it 'woke' me up to the issues on the left -- as a gay trans guy, a lot of these issues like around women empowerment stories just don't directly effect me. Saw a comment (on reddit) saying this is from an issue in that in feminism, only one type of women tends to get centered at a time.
It's very odd how much radical feminism and overlaps with radical religious sects around sexuality.
As someone fairly left leaning myself, yeah it’s been kinda gross watching the left destroy itself by attacking minorities and men in the wake of the election. Maybe don’t be blatantly racist and sexist when you’re trying to uphold yourself as the party of tolerance?
"It's very odd how much radical feminism and overlaps with radical religious sects around sexuality." EXACTLY - the Horeshoe Theory, in eternal effect. We humans can't seem to even try to stay away from the extremes of the political spectrum.
“Gay trans man” so a heterosexual woman with extra steps, let’s be real here
@@brettperry6655 They should make Mary Jane convert to 'slaam and be done with it
Very cool that you’re trying to understand broader opinions on this subject. It’s always helpful to understand other POVs.
Thats not aunt may?
Subversion of beauty standards is always baffling and weird. Hire a beautiful face model, then change her to not look as beautiful, then claim that to make the character beautiful (as the chosen model who literally has the job because they are beautiful) is a problem. Then point out ‘why do you have a problem you sexist Biggit?!’ Because you pointed out their weird hypocrisy.
Best example was Anya Chalotra cast as Yennefer in the Witcher show ‘to defy beauty standards’. Are you saying this woman isn’t beautiful? Doesn’t that make you exactly like the people you are calling racist for race swapping? wtf do you mean?!
The new MJ looks similar to ma kent in Smallville. She definitely isn't the worst in the uglify women campaign. So many just look trans.
To me she’s the worst cus she was cute in the first game
Not even a trans issue, go to asian countries and a lot of trans are very passable for actual women. It is only the western ones that make so little effort they still look like they never transitioned
Do not disrespect Ma Kent like that. Annette O’Toole was a baddie in the 80s - comparing an old woman to MJ in her 20s … not a good look.
What do you have against Annette O'Toole? MJ in Spiderman 2 looks nothing like her. The only thing they share is their hair color. Even in the Smallville in her late 40s to 50s, she was an attractive mature woman. In her prime she's exactly what MJ should have looked like in the game.
yeah the lady behind the scenes felt SHE should be literally in the game so they just put her face on MJ. She's plain.
This isn’t provable
The woman you’re thinking of was confirmed to be a temporary intern she had zero creative control over the game she just happened to take a photo with the game where she sort of looked like MJ and people ran with it
Her name was Ashley Punik and thats not any of the directors names
It's plausible.
@@wingsoffreedom3589 its not provable and this woman could be roped into something she had no part in
You guys have often spread misinfo and just take it with absolute confidence
Anti wokes also claim Neil Druckmann kicked Amy Hennig out of ND yet there is zero proof to this
@@wingsoffreedom3589 not provable
Need proof
That character design alone made me decide to never touch not only that game, but the previous one (as I am a PC gamer and these games are finally coming to PC).
You can throw any insult you want at me and make fun of me for being superficial, but that won't make me pay for that game.
This kind of character design is a message the devs send the players, and boycotting the game is my response to that message.
Edit: Ho, and btw, the WHOLE POINT of MJ is that she is a bombshell.
She is BY NATURE "sexualized" (what an awful word to try to demonize being human with sexappeal), you may not like it, but that won't change that reality.
You really should play 2018 Spider-Man it has a better vibe than the sequel, be sure to download the mod which changes peter’s face to be the original one the game shipped with along with the one that skips the Mj sequences
@@sunshoe-l5r Nah I'm good.
I wouldn't even pirate it, I have better things to do than playing games from this kind of people.
@ your loss buddy
@@sunshoe-l5r The point is to be entertained, and skipping anything that makes you unhappy is not a loss
@@sunshoe-l5r Not really when you consider there is way more games out there than time to play them. I'd rather not support people that actively work to destroy gaming and push far left ideology.
Both sides being angry probably means you're right.
Centrists never stop being cringe.
@@celestialsoldier622 , I'm a centrist, and I'm more based than Jester Bell.
@celestialsoldier622 being able to point out that both sides can be stupid at times does not make you a centrist, just means you can point out bull
@@Zeel-ko1ni No. The dumb idea that As long as both sides hate you you're right is a common centrist idea regardless of the topic. It's cringe.
@@celestialsoldier622 Calling someone a centrist because they don't align with your exact ideals is way more cringe
People don’t want “realism” or “representation” in videogwmes, they want escapism and fantasy. They want characters that are implausibly attractive and capable. They want idealism, not reality. They get realism every day of their lives, so they want to get away from that in their entertainment.
Channing Tatum is actually 44 years old, and would have been 43 during filming but I digress. As for his looks, this is the same guy who played Magic Mike and was dating Zoë Kravitz, so I think he has that base covered, even if it's not to your taste. When Taylor Kitsch played Gambit in X-Men Origins: Wolverine, he was 27 years old during filming. Channing Tatum is only a year older than him, and he's been trying to play Gambit since before Kitsch got the role but his Gambit project never went ahead. The whole point of Tatum's Gambit in Deadpool & Wolverine is that he is meant to be that Gambit that never was, which is why he's older. He's playing an older Gambit. As a matter of fact, all of the heroes were meant to be older since they were played by the same actors who played them originally back in the day. Gambit even states in the film that he's not certain about his origins, and he may have been born in the void but he was not sure.
As for the main point of this video, yes, they did Mary Jane dirty. The same goes for countless other female characters. Shit like that is why the gaming industry is in trouble now. The fans are done with it and voting with their wallets.
It still amazes me how Anita Sarkeesian shows up one day and destroys the industry's creative freedom for a decade. I hope more women start speaking up about this topic because we already know men aren't going to be taken seriously.
I love my girl characters looking hot! you wont catch my WoW characters looking ugly, you wont catch my sims looking ugly, i want to be invested in my character and i want to look at a pretty character.
yeah because ur normal and not brainwashed into indulging in weakness
Everybody likes to look at attractive people and attractive characters. For anyone to say otherwise is all a lie. MJ looks like Peter's mom here.
I mean it's just good character design too
If the "hot game character are gateway corn" argument are to be believed than I guess they should throw out most Hollywood actors then. Let's not pretend that photo compilations of celebrities don't exist.
"Do you want video games to become a gateway to p*rn?"
Meanwhile they're praising and lusting after all of their "approved" characters and making tons of rule 34 art of them. Vampire Lady from Resident Evil 8 anyone?
With MJ's redesign and the replacement of the original PS4 Peter face model it honestly feels like they went in opposite directions for each character.
Peter went from looking like he was 29 to looking like he was 23 and MJ went from looking like she was 23 to looking like she was 35. They genuinely look like an age gap couple in the sequel. 💀
I'm tired of the uglification of everything. Poster adverts in the UK now for clothes, lingerie, bikinis etc have so many unhealthy overweight people in now, it's disgusting to be confronted with in big cities. Modern ''art'' is literal junk and scribble. There seems to be an effort to make men weak and feminine, women over weight and masculine and none of us find each other attractive anymore. It's very demoralizing for a society.
That's the plan.
Gah, I always recoil at that Fable woman. She's so aggressively plain it's off putting.
And people say Ciri is just "older now"
She gained a new jawline. That's not old. That's uglification. Plain and simple.
She looks like a victim of a bad cosmetic surgery. Maybe they think that’s what getting older naturally looks like.
She looks like a women try to look young and over did the Botox.
About Ciri
We don't know to be fair how will the game model look like. Geralt wasn't looking like himself at the cinematic as well. But yeah, the animation looks off.
Peoples faces can change when they grow shes litrealy just not a child anymore jfc shes straight out convintually attractive she just lools her age instead of looking 16
@@danielmendes8975she was in her 20s in The Witcher 3
15:30 yeah that's been a common criticism of a lot of recent PlayStation games. In the story/narrative driven games they will often make you take breaks from gameplay to give character dialogue and to explore the environment at a slow pace.
Personally I don't like it either and I found it so annoying while playing Spider-Man 2, especially when they make you play as Mary Jane in the main story or the deaf chick in her side missions.
WHY DID THE DEAF CHICK HAVE HER OWN SIDE MISSIONS!?
My favorite intro you’ve ever done
Same.
It wouldn't be as big of a deal if they actually still looked like real people, instead of looking like someone took a real person and messed with sliders in a character creator just enough for it to not quite look right. I do feel like the word "ugly" is thrown around a little too loosely when people talk about this though. The MJ model still looks to me like someone who could actually exist. That character from Star Wars Outlaws, on the other hand, looks like it crawled straight out of the uncanny valley.
Can someone please explain to me where the word "women" has gone? why do I keep hearing "woman" used as a plural?????? 8:11
It was so uncomfortable seeimg marry Jane and peter kiss in this game, initially when i saw the leaked pictures of how Mary Jane looked i honestly thought it was peters mom. So it threw me off
0:03 - 0:09 When you're too stressed to vape. 😂
I find nothing necessarily wrong with a woman who has a more square jaw, but MJ’s design was definitely a step down in general.
And even less attractive people still try to look better in public when they’re working or going somewhere with friends.
Hey i heard somewhere that the og actress had a car accident and it affected her jaw, she had to have surgery and stuff(i think she wrote so on her insta), and i hear she stoped modeling cuz of the bullying, did you come across this info and what do u think bout it?
From what I saw, she made that decision to quit long before any bullying happened; if it happened at all. I haven't been on Twitter in a long time (quit it in early 2020, rejoined this past month), nor seen any evidence of her being bullied, and most of the people claiming she was bullied don't bother providing evidence, just using those claims as an excuse to attack fans for not liking the MJ design.
If she was bullied and had people try and call her place of work, that's definitely wrong. But I would also say their anger is misdirected. She had no say in MJ's redesign. That was all the developers' idea. Don't harass her, but don't hate on her for something out of her control either.
She never said what year she had the car crash, i believe it was before she started modeling as you can go back years on her insta and she look exactly the same she did back before the first Spider-man game came out. So no, the car crash had no effect on her looks in the second game.
She did not quick modelling because of bully. A Fan called her workplace and she said she does more then just MJ and and it's inappropriate to call her regardless of how much you like Spider-man.
The face isn't of the model. It was the game director I believe.
I mean if her facial structure is indeed drastically different due to a car accident then that's terrible, but that still doesn't really explain why they chose to drastically change the model for MJ in the second game. If the actress is literally disfigured then there's nothing stopping them from simply recasting the physical model, or even just making a higher definition model based off her original 2018 facial scans.
Shouldn’t stop a computer from remodeling the face.
wooo go Jester!
I only need to say one name to make western developers(and Sweet Baby Inc) tremble - Seonhee from Yakuza: Like a Dragon.
I'm glad to see more people finally speaking out about this. To quote John McClane "welcome to the party pal"
bro, we don't need more of the same discussion 😭
@@cowmanplays2224 this has been talked about forever
Why do you guys always pretend common takes are now suddenly being talked about?
"what's your rating about the game?"
me: "yippe kayey!! motherpaker!!!"
In the 1st one they made her Lois Lane 😂… basically the same character… in this one she’s Jimmy Olsen… with long hair
I pretty much agree with you on everything.
The real issue that that peoples complain the most about is modern western videogame character (and let's be honest TV shows and movies as well) being unAPEALing, wich is a totaly different point, wich make it worse when peoples deffending that shit use the korn argument as if they where reading a script...
14:30 but I must say I'm not sure about that, because if they wanted to change these models they had MORE than enough time to do so, kinda like the first Sonic movie, meanwhile that one fable character has been a meme for years at this point
People saying, all in video games have to be like in real life are simply Dumb, comics or games are phantasy and if a character was designed to be attractive must be attractive, period.
I recently played a videogame called "Enslaved" for Xbox360 on my series X. You play a big buff dude named "Monkey" and you are forced to help a woman named "Trip" the game has the two of them work together to accomplish missions. It was a breath of fresh air. The woman was strong and feminine. She didn't talk down to you or try to one up you. It was a mutual respect on both parts. I LOVED that game. And I miss those types of female characters. They had humility and kindness in their hearts. Not Misandry and feminism.
so happy that Enslaved is brought up, that game is super underrated!
She doesn’t even look like his girlfriend, she looks like she could be his mom😂
I’ve been saying this everywhere and I’ll continue to say it till I’m blue in the face. People are arguing in extremes one side wants the eve from stellar blade and the other side wants Jordan from intergalactic. I just want more Elena Fishers out there we don’t get many they always fall into one of these 2 camps these days
I still can't believe Fable Legends, a game that would've starred several great heroines; who were *actually female,* was cancelled and now we're getting a new Fable game with... ugh... it hurts to even think about!
I love your nuanced takes because I feel the same way. I don't know why people want to be so extreme, so all or nothing.
And as a woman I want to play beautiful and feminine female characters but beauty and style isn't the same as sexual or skimpy like some assume.
Do you have a nuanced take about Djihad?
Heres what I think, it doesn't matter what a character looks like, "ugly" or not. What matters is that it's the creators vision, if they want a character to look like that because its what they envision thats great! But the moment someone else steps in and says, "You need to change this" because its not "realistic". Thats when we have a problem. As long as the appearance fits the character and who they are, thats a good character.
According to Insomniac they used Stephany Tyler Jones as a reference for both the first and second game. According to Insomniac she looks different in the second game, because of engine advancements. They changed Peter Parker to look more like Tom Holland, but claim that Mary Jane was the exact same design. Mary Jane in part 2 also has this strange uncanny likeness to writer Ashley Propik, who according to herself was just an intern during development of this game. Nothing to see here Insomniac claims... How gullible do they think we are?
I love how developers say that the people complaining about overweight or unattractive female characters have never seen a woman. Have these people never been to a beach? There are lots of women who look like the main character in stellar blade. If insecurity were a skill tree, those people would be maxed out.
Mary Jane was a model in the comics. This version is as homely as I have ever seen her. This is weird stuff.
I just finished playing the first Spider-Man PS5 and holy crap i can't believe they changed MJ so much in 2!
Maybe MJ is secretly Green Goblin in this multiverse
The characters are objectified no matter what, they're literally objects because they're characters in a video game
Great vid happy new year to you & yours & here's to better storytelling & good ideas thanks.
Weird mental gymnastics on the part of the industry to equate anything beautiful to corn. Art is at its best when we are shown beauty. Beauty can be sensual, impactful, chaotic, even mundane. Beauty arouses the senses. To strip away beauty is to strip away art.
She wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to censor art using shame but only until it doesn't get in the way of her own tastes. She's still trying to pretend there was any merit whatsoever to this "movement" in the first place. Whirlwinds are being reaped.
Ah yes, the rejection of corn and grape, fruit is bad everyone.
Wait, I thought corn was grass.
@@EarlHildebrandt corn is a fruit, grass is a veg
@@dr_diddy Well, now I'm just hungry for fruit salad.
Corn is a grain.
My problem isn't that she's 'ugly', it's that she looks like an entirely different person who only happens to have the same voice.
I think the perfect example is how beautiful Aloy was in the first Horizon game and how they literally made her fatter and uglier in the second game for no reason, and I’m saying this as a woman. Mary Jane in the second game looks 55 years old with greasy hair. She looks like Peter’s mom!
@@cecilyerker oh my god I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw mj in two and said she looks like she can be his mother. And Alloy in forbidden west looks like she's having an allergic reaction.
It's culture Marxism. The purpose is to destroy all the old norms, one of which is beauty.
Wow. Great job! 🎉🎉🎉
I heard one of the character designers for final fantasy saying he was ugly in real life, he didn’t want to be ugly in a game too.
I agree but I disagree at 13:40. The clip you show is not soft core corn because she is showing skin. Is it titillating, sure but that does not mean its corn or soft core corn. Showing a bit of skin, depending on the context and how much, does not equal corn
Japanese games, like square enix games especially, still make pretty women characters. This woke feminist crap is a western problem
It's crazy how my friend and I were just talking about this the other day lol.
Well said and sound, sound argument.
She now looks as old as how people said Peter’s old face was. 😂
Cyberpunk got it right. Especially with Panam, my jaw literally dropped when she appeared in game the first time 🤣🤣
Solid points! Also your point was proven on the Witcher 4 trailer. Most people who were mad that they have to play an “ugly women” were called out for A not playing the games and seeing this was coming and b …. Ciri looks good, people trippin
Pretty sure more people are mad about the blatant breaking of Witcher lore by making Ciri a Witcher than her new strong jaw.
I mean there's something to be said about CDPR's new hiring practices and how they're seemingly excluding men. I believe we can also have a conversation about whether or not Ciri being a Witcher goes against the established lore. But when I saw people saying Ciri looked genuinely ugly and Butched up, I'm like y'all are tripping, she doesn't look that much different from the previous game and she certainly doesn't look ugly.
Ciri is not ugly, she's just older. Plus, she'll look better in the game, Gerald didn't look his best in his trailers but looked great in game
@@Drums_of_Liberation , I have no issues with the lore being broken as long as I can play as a beautiful female character. For example Uta from One Piece breaks the One Piece world, but she's beautiful hence why I bought her figure, music soundtrack in Pirate Warriors 4, and the playable character of Uta.
I remember that the guy who played John Carter in Disney's movie of the same name also played Gambit briefly
It is simple in the end, if games where they do these things stop selling, it will go away again.
And we already see the power of the consumer in effect, some developers are in deep trouble after some of their "choices"
Some people are trying to gaslight us that this is not actually happening, but it definitely is. They're intentionally making women ugly and everybody can see it. They're giving the message that being attracted to beautiful women is an inherently bad thing and that kinda rubs me the wrong way.
I feel the same way. I think majority of us do as well. The MJ design was weird.
On one hand we have MJ in Spider-Man 2, on the other hand we have Ashley Graham in Resident Evil 4 Remake.
One of these things is not like the other.