Thank you Doug for this film. We have started now to built our 200mtr. fiber as you have explain it. Thank you for your inspiration. greetings from switzerland, Uwe
I’m not sure if you’ve already done it, but I’d love to see your setup from end to end: specifically a step-by-step demonstration of what equipment you have in the venue and how it’s connected to your trailer. Cheers
Thanks for the video, that helps with my questions I had to your four year old fiber video. Nice that FS does offer their website in German and EUR. I am still not sure about the configuration of the trunk and the subs naked, but will find out when it is time for me to order.
Great! Man I really like you! Every solution, that I think would be great and I hope to use soon, you use allready! Smart and clever man! Great technician with big big knowledge :)
I like the look of the 24 strand I have the lc waterproof version in 2 an 8 strand and find the two strand verry thin to work with on a set up and pack down but haven't had any issues so far.
I bought 10 of these cables in the 12 channel version from FS for use on a tour. They worked fine but did not hold up well. After about 30 shows I ended up replacing them with cables from Camplex with Opticalcon connectors. I had the same issue with the locking nubs on the shells wearing off. But this was due to an assembling error and user error. The shell was incorrectly assembled with the key on the MPT ferrule and an alinement notch/key on the shell so that the cable would not mate with the bulkhead connector without excessive force. I thought I had corrected them all but some slipped by me. I was able to get replacement shells from FS. But the big issue was the fiber ferrules breaking while connected to the bulkhead connector. If the cable was bumped or pull perpendicular to the connector the ferrule would snap. I used all my spare cables and purchased 10 more from FS until I could get the ones from Camplex. I would have originally gone with Camplex but the lead time was too long. Once I noticed the design flaw in the FS connector I order the Optocalcons and have switched over. The opticalcon connector and bulkhead are designed in such a way as to prevent movement that would break the fiber ferrule.
You should do a whole video on fiber polarity. It's was very confusing until I sat down and drew it all out. (And the different polarity of MPO connectors made it even messier). Still very hard to explain to others, but I envision to be like looking at the opposite ends of a 2 way road. Really it's because the SFPs are the same on either side and you have to think about lining up the cassette polarity as well. If you just use simplex patch cables it solves the problem (since you can patch individually) but not helpful if you're using duplex.
It can be a complicated subject. When I went to make this purchase I actually made up note cards showing the positions of the different fiber strands on each connector to make sure that I got it right -- numbered 1-12 on one side of the card, and 13-24 on the other, so I could visually see what was happening with each cable and connection. Considering that this isn't a networking channel, I'm not sure how much interest my subscribers would have in such specialized content covering the intricate details of how MPO/MTP work.
@@djp_video I think the way you're doing it (for video/Dante) is very useful. I can't speak for others, but for those interested in fiber (apart from networking) polarity is still important. I am in a bit different situation as I'm doing a permanent install so I had to worry about plenum ratings, but it would've been nice to have a guide for all the different "lingo". Like jacket types "LSZH" and termination types "UPC". Then, you can clarify and distinguish which is appropriate for video applications over networking (this is where the info is seriously lacking). Many assume multimode is good for BMD products when, in reality, single mode is recommended. Same with networking vs video SFPs. I'm positive it would be a huge benefit to anyone (and even those who are nervous about) working with fiber.
Mainly to provide for the possibility of adding additional extensions cables later. The couplers used to link multiple cables are almost always B type, so if you wanted to use A style you’d have to build your own custom A type, and that gets expensive really quickly. But In the end the connections have to be reversed somewhere. You can’t have the transmitter on one end of the cable trying to talk to the transmitter on the other end. Transmitters have to go to Receivers. The 2 strand cables we run to cameras always have their pair of strands swapped. That’s how they all work. So it makes sense to use that same methodology everywhere for consistency.
Hey Doug, I'm curious to hear how this solution is holding up for you since the build two years ago? We're looking at building a similar solution for our broadcast rig. We're still a little worried about sending all our signals over one cable though. Did you ever have problems in that regard?
With one exception it has worked really well. The only issue has been that the IP67 connector housing didn't hold up very well. Fairly soon after I got this cable the little nubs inside the twist-on locking ring sheared off, so I had to drill them out and replace them with metal set screws. That has been a perfectly acceptable fix and everything has worked well since then. The cable itself hasn't ever given me any issues. If someone has the budget for it, I'd still steer them to toward Neutrik OpticalCON MTP-12 or MTP-24 connectors, but they are very expensive and usually mean arranging custom cables rather than buying something off-the-shelf.
I love how you have a remote trailer and can reduce set up time for an event. But, when you are working in a facility how do you actually run the cables, fiber or otherwise, through the doors and walkways? I would imagine some runs can be quite lengthy depending on where you are parked and the room(s) in which the event(s) are taking place. How do you keep people from tripping over and/or breaking lines, and how do you go through exterior doors especially when the weather is not so friendly and the doors should remain closed?
It, of course, varies by venue. But we'll try to go through a window when possible, or a back door instead of the main door to keep foot traffic to a minimum. If weather is an issue we can tape up an opening, but we haven't had to do that. Some of the runs can be long, but that's why I've got 150M on this cable, and will be buying another extension I can use if I ever have to go farther. So far I've never had to use the full length of this or my older 200M cable. This particular cable is only 1/4-inch in diameter, so it's pretty small, and will often fit underneath interior doors without issue. And when it can't, we can use a door stop to keep it from getting pinched, but orient the stop so the door only stays open wide enough for the cable. Again, utilizing doors with the lowest activity where possible. The cable is armored, so normal foot traffic doesn't affect it. For most walking paths we can just tape it down and it is fine. But for higher traffic areas we'll drop a cable protector over the top and tape that down. Worst case scenario (and we haven't had this happen just yet), the switcher in my trailer is in a removable rack case, so I can get much of the functionality of trailer without using the trailer except to haul the gear. I also have a smaller video switcher rack with a Television Studio HD that I can use for the smaller events without having to remove the equipment in the trailer.
So, do you find that you have to work directly with the venue to get permission to run the cable? Or do you just set it up and hope for the best? I ask because I am thinking of doing this in situations where I have not been invited by the venue or by the event being held there. I am doing public events and functioning like a reporter that is reporting on the public event. Nobody necassarily knows I am coming but me.
Great stuff would love to see a diagram with where that 24 fiber is going to / coming from and how u are connecting cameras.. i confused a bit due to u being n i guess a trailer and the cameras will be actually outside...
Fibers 1-20 are used in pairs to go to cameras. Fibers 1/2 go to camera 1, fibers 3/4 goes to camera 2, etc., one for the feed from camera, one for return feed going back to camera. I utilize the Blackmagic Design ATEM Camera Converter product to convert to/from fiber at each camera, and that gives me camera feed, return video, tally, and intercom. Fibers 21/22 are spares/general purpose. Fibers 23/24 are for Ethernet, configured in a LAG for redundancy or additional bandwidth. The Ethernet data is also a VLAN trunk carrying multiple VLANs over a single link.
Hi, Thanks for this video ! Where did you buy the 19'' rack panel with LC Connectors ? I can only find panels with vertical LC connector which I find less easy to use. Thank you :)
Hey Doug, thanks for some great content. quick question. can you elaborate a little more on the physical networking of the breakout box, maybe the networking of the trailer too. I am kinda stuck on the WAN over secluded VLAN on the LAN network patched through the fiber trunk to a port on the internal switch in the truck to the WAN of the router? I get the rules should make it work. but in my head it is not working out. I work mainly with UniFi tech on my breakouts and builds using wireless antennas and instead of fiber (hopefully soon). Thanks!
For VLANs to work, every piece of equipment in the chain has to support them. Wireless networks almost never support VLANs, as the equipment doesn't know what to do with the VLAN tag information, or at a minimum don't transmit it over the air. In terms of the way the trailer works, two of the SFP network ports in the trailer are setup in a LAG (for additional bandwidth and redundancy) and those two ports connect directly to two strands of the fiber trunk, which then goes to the breakout box, where they go directly to two SFPs in the switch in the breakout box. Those ports are also in a LAG. Nothing special or complicated there. But for the sake of this discussion, though, you can ignore that I'm using a LAG (or even that I'm using fiber rather than copper; they work identically) and just pretend they're regular Ethernet ports. The LAGs (ports) are added as members to the appropriate VLANs in both switches, and set to output tagged packets for all of those VLANs. The receiving end is set to accept tagged packets, and those packets are then routed to the appropriate switch ports based on their tags.
And I thought Fibre was pretty straightforward... :/ My immediate question is what's the back of the fibre patch bay like? What merges all the camera in/out to the single block?
So, the fanout cable and the coupler links don't work. Did you actually order a male/female cable? Because, wouldn't you need another coupler that way (for the trailer side)? Thanks in advance! And what reel did you order with this?
I fixed those two links. The couplers don't have a gender to them; they actually just hold the two cable ends together. So what you need to do is make sure that male cable ends attach to female cable ends. The male ends have pins that line up the connectors by mating with sockets on the female cable ends. What I ordered is one male fanout cable, one female fanout cable, and then the main fiber trunk has a male connector on one end and female on the other end. That way male connectors always mate with female connectors. So my signal flow is: fanout cable to bulkhead connector to fiber trunk cable to bulkhead connector to fanout cable. You also need to pay attention to polarity. "A" style cables always connect strand 1 to strand 1. "B" style reverse the order, so on a 24-strand cable, strand 1 on one end connects to strand 24 on the other end. And when you couple two cables the polarity is reversed as well, so if a signal is on strand 1 of one cable, when that cable is mated to the next cable the same signal is now on strand 24. There's also a "C" style which reverses the signals in pairs (1 always goes to 2 and vice versa), but that only confuses the matter in multi-strand cables. I went with "B" style for my cables. This makes sure that for all of my male connectors, strand 1 is always the same signal. This is because the signal gets reversed twice -- once in the cable (1 to 24), then once by the mating couplers (24 to 1). It also makes it possible to easily add extension cables. If I had gone with "A" style, extension cables would have to be wired differently than the main interconnect cable. "B" style is easier to deal with -- you only have to worry about reversing polarity once (no matter how many interconnect cables you use), which I did in my breakout box. I ordered a reel from Markertek: www.markertek.com/product/avc-16-14-16-de/hannay-reels-avc-16-14-16-de-cable-reel-with-drum-extension
@@djp_video Thank you so much for this indepth answer. I've watched this video 8 times today, just to understand everything, but I just didn't understand everything. The only thing I still don't understand is the polarity. You say that reversing is the best, because you can extend easily because of the 'double reverse'. But wouldn't a 'straight throught' extension do exacty the same (still gets reversed twice)?
A 'straight through' extension would only reverse it once (because of the coupler). So you'd have to add another reversal somewhere for each extension being added. If you never intend to add additional extension cables the polarity doesn't matter much because you can compensate for the reversals due to the couplers in the way you wire one of the fanout cables. And in the case of having just two couplers no reversal would be necessary: strand 1 in the fanout is reversed to strand 24 in the first coupler, then reversed again in the second coupler from 24 to 1. If you add another "A" cable and coupler the polarity would be wrong, as it has been reversed an odd number of times.
@@djp_video It still took me a while to understand, but if you'd use type A with mating couplers, every other extension cable would screw up the system. Thanks!
Thanks for the helpful videos Doug! Question regarding ethernet breakout box, what device do you have on the trailer side to receive and send data? Is it the same 24 port PoE switch in your breakout box? Thanks!
Hi Doug, another question on this solution - I got a warning from colleagues concerning the MTP connectors in broadcast environments. Supposedly they are harder to clean and to maintain. I looked it up - there is cleaning equipment available but testing devices for MPO/MTP seem to play in another league. My original idea was not to test the MTPs directly but after the breakout cable, using a conventional powermeter for LC. How did you get along with those routines? Did you have any blackouts on the cable yet? Thanks!
I haven't had any issues with the cable. I keep the protective ends on the cable when it isn't actively plugged in, and avoid touching the ends as well. So far so good.
Doug Johnson Productions ah yes. I bought all 3G. I believe they had 6 and 12 g available at FS when I asked for the custom design but they were really expensive.
Hey Doug, I have following you for a while and looking exactly for this solution for a new trailer build. I was wondering thought, why you did not use BiDi SFPs for all of your camera inputs?
Cost. The Camera Converters and Studio Converters came with transceivers already, so going BiDi would require me to re-purchase a minimum of 16 of them. At some point I will add some BiDi SFPs to the mix, but for now it doesn't make a lot of sense when I have plenty of fiber lines available.
Hey Doug, quick question, how do you sync all of the different cameras? Different models, converting the signal, and processing adds latency which is terrible for live video production.
I don't convert signals unless I have to. I make sure to set the cameras to the video format I've selected for the event. When I do have to do conversions for laptops or whatever, I usually use the Decimator MD-HX, which has very low latency for its conversions.
Hi Doug. Here in Brazil i have worked on a ISP with fiber optics cables and particularly the connectors head are to sensible to the dust and some cases make the equipment not syncronize with the OLT. If we compare Fiber optics with SDI isn't simple like SDI to terminate the fiber connector. So, with that all for you what the advantage to use fiber cables over SDI under 300ft?
In my case, it's that a single fiber cable carries video in two directions in addition to tally and intercom, and that it can go miles if needed. It can technically be done with SDI, but you'd have to run two cables to achieve the same thing. And when you get down to it, fiber is cheaper in the long run using the Blackmagic-based solution I went with. If you get into 6G- or 12G-SDI for 4K, supported distances over copper SDI cables shrink drastically -- even 50m is difficult to achieve. With a production trailer/truck, fiber is pretty much the only way to go -- distances over 100 meters are the norm rather than the exception. I've had gigs where I have to run cables 400m. But even before I built the trailer, the simplicity of it was really appealing, only having to run a single, really thin cable holds a lot of appeal. I have a video on the channel that covers many of the pros/cons of the different interconnect types: ruclips.net/video/U7p7OboXZRQ/видео.html
There are several things that have to be taken into consideration when selecting which breakout connection you need. It's a little more complicated than just saying "buy this product." But, with that said, here are the two that I got for the setup demoed in this video: www.fs.com/products/31066.html, customized as follows: Breakout Length - 0.5m equal breakout, Cable Type - Bunch, Fiber Count - 24 Fibers (1x 24F), Connector A - *Male* APC 0.35dB, Connector B - LC UPC Simplex, Cable Jacket - OFNP, Breakout Leg - 2.0mm, Pulling Eye - None, Length - 1m www.fs.com/products/31066.html, customized as follows: Breakout Length - 0.5m equal breakout, Cable Type - Bunch, Fiber Count - 24 Fibers (1x 24F), Connector A - *Female* APC 0.35dB, Connector B - LC UPC Simplex, Cable Jacket - OFNP, Breakout Leg - 2.0mm, Pulling Eye - None, Length - 1m And for reference, the main cable is www.fs.com/products/70220.html, customized as follows: Fiber Counts - 24 Fibers, Connector A - IP67 MTP-24 Female 0.35dB, Connector B - IP67 MTP-24 Male 0.35dB, Polarity - Type B Cross, Pulling Eye - None, Length - 152.4m Also, I should mention that I'm not loving these IP67 connectors they use. I've had the little nubs which hold two mating connectors together shear off in two of them and I've had to replace them with small set screws. They seem more fragile than I'd hoped.
@@djp_video Thanks, I am basically trying to replicate part of what you have done. We currently have a decent sized Dante based system (QL consoles with 3 Rio stage boxes, Shure Quad ULX receivers and many AVIO dongles) using Cat5 snakes from the stage back to our front of house van. We run sound, lighting (5 universes of Artnet), and two screens (Matrox stream H.264). We are adding Dante AV and want to go fiber for everything. I did not understand the male/female relation of the bulkhead connectors. From your description above I am guessing they are Male/Female. As of right now I am going to get the same trunk as you. I am only immediately going to connect our Cisco switch in front of house to one of the stage Cisco switches and use another fiber to daisy chain a second switch on stage. The next phase will be using fiber to run the stage screens and eliminate the latency the Matrox causes. Do you have a preferred SFP? The one you listed at the time is no longer available on Amazon. I will always be the only one running the snake so I will be very careful of those connectors unless you think there is a better option.
The couplers only line up the two cables to interface with one another, so they have to be male/female so the cables can line up and mate properly with one another. The connection between cables inside of the coupler is direct, cable-to-cable. A "better option" than IP67 would be cables using OpticalCON MTP-24 connectors. But you're getting into a lot more money for the privilege -- easily more than double. Your call. The wiring of the breakouts doesn't matter that much because the LC cables are separate and you can wire them up in whatever order you want. If you want to order one with B type wiring you can, but you can always get an A type and just connect them in reverse order and achieve the exact same result.
Hi, did you order that fanout cable twice with male & female APC connectors and do you have lc simplex or dublex connectors in the other end? I'm also wondering, if my main cable polarity is type B, should fanout cables be also type B polarity?
Both of my fanout cables are identical. They're MTP24 to LC simplex. I just have to remember that the strand numbers are reversed -- so strand 1 on one end corresponds to strand 24 on the other end.
Hi Doug, thanks for the informative video Does the cable have to be male on one side and female on the other, or can i order the same gender on both sides?
You can pick and choose as you desire. Traditionally the breakout ends (whether that be cable or cassette) are males with the cable being female, but there aren't any hard and fast rules. I personally use cables with one male and one female end so it will be easier to chain multiple cables together, but there's no "right" way to do it.
Hi Doug, thanks for the video. Regarding the gender of the MPT connectors, do you have a female connectors on both ends of the trunk cable and male connectors on both fan-out cables?
The trailer connection is male, and the breakout box connection is female. So the cables are female on one end and male on the other. This makes it easy to extend with additional cables without having to change genders or do anything else weird.
Hi Doug, can you tell us more about the devices you are using to connect your camera through fiber optic. I saw that you are using black magic studio converter on the OB Side, and Sony cameras on stage. Do you use BMD camera converter on the cam side ? Thx
Thx ! I missed this video... you’re saying the camera converter does not support 4K and that you’re able to send video signal in 4K by another fiber link so what are you using to send 4K video signal over fiber? And do you have an opinion on BMD STUDIO CAM OR URSA broadcast?
When I need to do 4K live, I'll run a separate fiber cable just for the 4K video and use one of the Optical Fiber converters with a 6G SFP. I'm really not a fan of the Blackmagic Studio cameras. Their low light performance is quite poor. They're really only useful outdoors in the sunlight, or in a studio environment with studio quality lighting. The Ursa Broadcast is a little better, but still isn't ideal.
The MTP portion has been just fine. The waterproof housings have had a couple issues. The small nubs inside the twist connector broke off and I had to replace them with metal set screws. But other than that they've worked well.
I'm using bi-directional SFPs for my network so I only need a single strand to communicate in both directions. They transmit on one wavelength and receive on another, with the opposing ends swapping the tx/rcv.
Doug, I notice that you have the LiveUSolo for sale on your Amazon store. I was checking at out and the price is the same that B&H! Definitely I will use your link to get one. By the way, do you think this LiveUSolo will work with iPhone hotspot? Thank you
Can you post a link to the 1x4 passive optical splitter that you use? I have a similar set up, but I am using a 12 channel MTP connection, and I could use additional fibers. It might be cheaper to add two of the passive splitters so I can run two return signals, eight cameras feeding video to the switcher, and two for ethernet instead of replacing 1000 feet of fiber. I tried a 1x8 optical splitter in the past, but I think the optical loss was too high for the cameras to get a good return signal. Since my camera return video is only HD, I was thinking of trying and SFP+ module meant for 40 or 80 km signals, but if you have a solution that has worked for you, I’m willing to give it a shot.
I got them on eBay, and those listings have long since disappeared. But here's a used one that's currently for sale: www.ebay.com/itm/Newton-Fiberworks-NFS-208-01M-1-Meter-Singlemode-LC-LC-Splitter-1x4-Equal-Split/183797630800?hash=item2acb314750:g:8sUAAOSwcjBczGRB
Doug Johnson Productions I had previously bought a cheap one on eBay, and thought that could be my problem as well. Since I saw your link that FS.com sells them too, I’ll certainly go that route, their prices look better than eBay as well. Thanks!
Basically the same as the breakout box in the video, except that I've reversed the camera connections front-to-back. The back side of the panel goes to the Studio Converters, and the MTP fanout cable gets plugged into the front. That way I can plug in cameras locally at the trailer when necessary easily.
Hi Dough, thanks for the video! I very much like the idea of breakout box of yours and thanks for the "cable porn" :D . Btw: I very much aware of FS website for some time as network admin for their switching products. But I can't find the armed multifiber cable with multifiber connectors, I can see option individual LC/ST/FC... connectors but not multi fiber connectors. Could you please point me to the right one? TY!
Thank you Doug for this film. We have started now to built our 200mtr. fiber as you have explain it. Thank you for your inspiration. greetings from switzerland, Uwe
I use FS fiber store cables, amazing quality and fast shipping. Tremendous choice :)
Doug, thank you for the walk thru. Very well done.
I’m not sure if you’ve already done it, but I’d love to see your setup from end to end: specifically a step-by-step demonstration of what equipment you have in the venue and how it’s connected to your trailer. Cheers
I have quite a few videos of that type available for Members and Patreon supporters.
@@djp_video Gotcha, thanks. Makes sense.
I’ve grown to appreciate your channel as I become more professional.
Thanks for the video, that helps with my questions I had to your four year old fiber video. Nice that FS does offer their website in German and EUR. I am still not sure about the configuration of the trunk and the subs naked, but will find out when it is time for me to order.
Great! Man I really like you! Every solution, that I think would be great and I hope to use soon, you use allready! Smart and clever man! Great technician with big big knowledge :)
Thank you very much!
I like the look of the 24 strand I have the lc waterproof version in 2 an 8 strand and find the two strand verry thin to work with on a set up and pack down but haven't had any issues so far.
How hardy is the exterior of the 2 strand ones? Tough enough to take some abuse and getting dragged over roads during runs etc.
Very useful info Doug, thanks as always.
I bought 10 of these cables in the 12 channel version from FS for use on a tour. They worked fine but did not hold up well. After about 30 shows I ended up replacing them with cables from Camplex with Opticalcon connectors. I had the same issue with the locking nubs on the shells wearing off. But this was due to an assembling error and user error. The shell was incorrectly assembled with the key on the MPT ferrule and an alinement notch/key on the shell so that the cable would not mate with the bulkhead connector without excessive force. I thought I had corrected them all but some slipped by me. I was able to get replacement shells from FS. But the big issue was the fiber ferrules breaking while connected to the bulkhead connector. If the cable was bumped or pull perpendicular to the connector the ferrule would snap. I used all my spare cables and purchased 10 more from FS until I could get the ones from Camplex. I would have originally gone with Camplex but the lead time was too long. Once I noticed the design flaw in the FS connector I order the Optocalcons and have switched over. The opticalcon connector and bulkhead are designed in such a way as to prevent movement that would break the fiber ferrule.
OpticalCONs are certainly dramatically better. But they are a lot more expensive.
This is revolutionary
This is super helpful. Thank you!
Hi, do you have the link to the bottom custom breakout box? Thank you!
That’s something I built. It isn’t available for sale anywhere
You should do a whole video on fiber polarity. It's was very confusing until I sat down and drew it all out. (And the different polarity of MPO connectors made it even messier). Still very hard to explain to others, but I envision to be like looking at the opposite ends of a 2 way road. Really it's because the SFPs are the same on either side and you have to think about lining up the cassette polarity as well. If you just use simplex patch cables it solves the problem (since you can patch individually) but not helpful if you're using duplex.
It can be a complicated subject. When I went to make this purchase I actually made up note cards showing the positions of the different fiber strands on each connector to make sure that I got it right -- numbered 1-12 on one side of the card, and 13-24 on the other, so I could visually see what was happening with each cable and connection.
Considering that this isn't a networking channel, I'm not sure how much interest my subscribers would have in such specialized content covering the intricate details of how MPO/MTP work.
@@djp_video I think the way you're doing it (for video/Dante) is very useful. I can't speak for others, but for those interested in fiber (apart from networking) polarity is still important. I am in a bit different situation as I'm doing a permanent install so I had to worry about plenum ratings, but it would've been nice to have a guide for all the different "lingo". Like jacket types "LSZH" and termination types "UPC". Then, you can clarify and distinguish which is appropriate for video applications over networking (this is where the info is seriously lacking). Many assume multimode is good for BMD products when, in reality, single mode is recommended. Same with networking vs video SFPs. I'm positive it would be a huge benefit to anyone (and even those who are nervous about) working with fiber.
I’m still not sure about why the connections are going 1 connected to 24, 2 connected to 23...etc. why not just go 1 to 1 for everything.
@@djp_video is the reason why you are going connection 1 to connection 24, connection 2 to connection 23 because of the coupler your using?
Mainly to provide for the possibility of adding additional extensions cables later. The couplers used to link multiple cables are almost always B type, so if you wanted to use A style you’d have to build your own custom A type, and that gets expensive really quickly.
But In the end the connections have to be reversed somewhere. You can’t have the transmitter on one end of the cable trying to talk to the transmitter on the other end. Transmitters have to go to Receivers. The 2 strand cables we run to cameras always have their pair of strands swapped. That’s how they all work. So it makes sense to use that same methodology everywhere for consistency.
Hey Doug, I'm curious to hear how this solution is holding up for you since the build two years ago? We're looking at building a similar solution for our broadcast rig. We're still a little worried about sending all our signals over one cable though. Did you ever have problems in that regard?
With one exception it has worked really well.
The only issue has been that the IP67 connector housing didn't hold up very well. Fairly soon after I got this cable the little nubs inside the twist-on locking ring sheared off, so I had to drill them out and replace them with metal set screws. That has been a perfectly acceptable fix and everything has worked well since then. The cable itself hasn't ever given me any issues.
If someone has the budget for it, I'd still steer them to toward Neutrik OpticalCON MTP-12 or MTP-24 connectors, but they are very expensive and usually mean arranging custom cables rather than buying something off-the-shelf.
I love how you have a remote trailer and can reduce set up time for an event. But, when you are working in a facility how do you actually run the cables, fiber or otherwise, through the doors and walkways? I would imagine some runs can be quite lengthy depending on where you are parked and the room(s) in which the event(s) are taking place. How do you keep people from tripping over and/or breaking lines, and how do you go through exterior doors especially when the weather is not so friendly and the doors should remain closed?
It, of course, varies by venue. But we'll try to go through a window when possible, or a back door instead of the main door to keep foot traffic to a minimum. If weather is an issue we can tape up an opening, but we haven't had to do that.
Some of the runs can be long, but that's why I've got 150M on this cable, and will be buying another extension I can use if I ever have to go farther. So far I've never had to use the full length of this or my older 200M cable.
This particular cable is only 1/4-inch in diameter, so it's pretty small, and will often fit underneath interior doors without issue. And when it can't, we can use a door stop to keep it from getting pinched, but orient the stop so the door only stays open wide enough for the cable. Again, utilizing doors with the lowest activity where possible.
The cable is armored, so normal foot traffic doesn't affect it. For most walking paths we can just tape it down and it is fine. But for higher traffic areas we'll drop a cable protector over the top and tape that down.
Worst case scenario (and we haven't had this happen just yet), the switcher in my trailer is in a removable rack case, so I can get much of the functionality of trailer without using the trailer except to haul the gear. I also have a smaller video switcher rack with a Television Studio HD that I can use for the smaller events without having to remove the equipment in the trailer.
Doug Johnson Productions thank you for the informative reply! Be well and stay healthy.
So, do you find that you have to work directly with the venue to get permission to run the cable? Or do you just set it up and hope for the best? I ask because I am thinking of doing this in situations where I have not been invited by the venue or by the event being held there. I am doing public events and functioning like a reporter that is reporting on the public event. Nobody necassarily knows I am coming but me.
Great stuff would love to see a diagram with where that 24 fiber is going to / coming from and how u are connecting cameras.. i confused a bit due to u being n i guess a trailer and the cameras will be actually outside...
Fibers 1-20 are used in pairs to go to cameras. Fibers 1/2 go to camera 1, fibers 3/4 goes to camera 2, etc., one for the feed from camera, one for return feed going back to camera.
I utilize the Blackmagic Design ATEM Camera Converter product to convert to/from fiber at each camera, and that gives me camera feed, return video, tally, and intercom. Fibers 21/22 are spares/general purpose. Fibers 23/24 are for Ethernet, configured in a LAG for redundancy or additional bandwidth. The Ethernet data is also a VLAN trunk carrying multiple VLANs over a single link.
Hi, Thanks for this video ! Where did you buy the 19'' rack panel with LC Connectors ? I can only find panels with vertical LC connector which I find less easy to use. Thank you :)
It's just a 16-connector keystone panel with LC keystones. amzn.to/47nLetv and amzn.to/3MQlEoE
I keep the little rubber Cap inside the protective Sleeves, maybe they fit also in there with your Cable.
I am using the protective caps for the MTP connectors.
@@djp_video I know, but when the Cable is connected the little black cap might geht lost. So i keep them inside the Sleeves (8:16)
Hey Doug, thanks for some great content. quick question. can you elaborate a little more on the physical networking of the breakout box, maybe the networking of the trailer too. I am kinda stuck on the WAN over secluded VLAN on the LAN network patched through the fiber trunk to a port on the internal switch in the truck to the WAN of the router? I get the rules should make it work. but in my head it is not working out. I work mainly with UniFi tech on my breakouts and builds using wireless antennas and instead of fiber (hopefully soon). Thanks!
For VLANs to work, every piece of equipment in the chain has to support them. Wireless networks almost never support VLANs, as the equipment doesn't know what to do with the VLAN tag information, or at a minimum don't transmit it over the air.
In terms of the way the trailer works, two of the SFP network ports in the trailer are setup in a LAG (for additional bandwidth and redundancy) and those two ports connect directly to two strands of the fiber trunk, which then goes to the breakout box, where they go directly to two SFPs in the switch in the breakout box. Those ports are also in a LAG. Nothing special or complicated there. But for the sake of this discussion, though, you can ignore that I'm using a LAG (or even that I'm using fiber rather than copper; they work identically) and just pretend they're regular Ethernet ports.
The LAGs (ports) are added as members to the appropriate VLANs in both switches, and set to output tagged packets for all of those VLANs. The receiving end is set to accept tagged packets, and those packets are then routed to the appropriate switch ports based on their tags.
And I thought Fibre was pretty straightforward... :/ My immediate question is what's the back of the fibre patch bay like? What merges all the camera in/out to the single block?
The back is just the MTP-to-LC fanout cable shown early in the video.
@@djp_video Ah ok, so on the front of the panel, they're basically just barrels not SFPs?
Correct. It's completely passive and doesn't even require power to operate.
@@djp_video cool! thanks!
What about caster wheels with a lot of weight on the fiber?
I do corporate and we constantly have the house running table and chair carts over cable😢
I would use cable ramps if you might have heavy carts running over the cable. But that's universally true, not just for fiber.
So, the fanout cable and the coupler links don't work. Did you actually order a male/female cable? Because, wouldn't you need another coupler that way (for the trailer side)? Thanks in advance! And what reel did you order with this?
I fixed those two links.
The couplers don't have a gender to them; they actually just hold the two cable ends together. So what you need to do is make sure that male cable ends attach to female cable ends. The male ends have pins that line up the connectors by mating with sockets on the female cable ends.
What I ordered is one male fanout cable, one female fanout cable, and then the main fiber trunk has a male connector on one end and female on the other end. That way male connectors always mate with female connectors. So my signal flow is: fanout cable to bulkhead connector to fiber trunk cable to bulkhead connector to fanout cable.
You also need to pay attention to polarity. "A" style cables always connect strand 1 to strand 1. "B" style reverse the order, so on a 24-strand cable, strand 1 on one end connects to strand 24 on the other end. And when you couple two cables the polarity is reversed as well, so if a signal is on strand 1 of one cable, when that cable is mated to the next cable the same signal is now on strand 24. There's also a "C" style which reverses the signals in pairs (1 always goes to 2 and vice versa), but that only confuses the matter in multi-strand cables.
I went with "B" style for my cables. This makes sure that for all of my male connectors, strand 1 is always the same signal. This is because the signal gets reversed twice -- once in the cable (1 to 24), then once by the mating couplers (24 to 1). It also makes it possible to easily add extension cables. If I had gone with "A" style, extension cables would have to be wired differently than the main interconnect cable. "B" style is easier to deal with -- you only have to worry about reversing polarity once (no matter how many interconnect cables you use), which I did in my breakout box.
I ordered a reel from Markertek: www.markertek.com/product/avc-16-14-16-de/hannay-reels-avc-16-14-16-de-cable-reel-with-drum-extension
@@djp_video Thank you so much for this indepth answer. I've watched this video 8 times today, just to understand everything, but I just didn't understand everything. The only thing I still don't understand is the polarity. You say that reversing is the best, because you can extend easily because of the 'double reverse'. But wouldn't a 'straight throught' extension do exacty the same (still gets reversed twice)?
A 'straight through' extension would only reverse it once (because of the coupler). So you'd have to add another reversal somewhere for each extension being added.
If you never intend to add additional extension cables the polarity doesn't matter much because you can compensate for the reversals due to the couplers in the way you wire one of the fanout cables. And in the case of having just two couplers no reversal would be necessary: strand 1 in the fanout is reversed to strand 24 in the first coupler, then reversed again in the second coupler from 24 to 1. If you add another "A" cable and coupler the polarity would be wrong, as it has been reversed an odd number of times.
@@djp_video It still took me a while to understand, but if you'd use type A with mating couplers, every other extension cable would screw up the system. Thanks!
Thanks for the helpful videos Doug! Question regarding ethernet breakout box, what device do you have on the trailer side to receive and send data? Is it the same 24 port PoE switch in your breakout box? Thanks!
It's another TP-Link, but a 48-port managed version of it, without PoE support. amzn.to/3b3BFDU
@@djp_video Got it. Thank you!
Great Video! Thanks. How are you using one fibre strand for multiple camera return feeds? More detail on this pls? Thanks
Since the return feed is the same for multiple (or all) cameras, I can just split it. Optical splitters can be had relatively cheaply.
Hi Doug, another question on this solution - I got a warning from colleagues concerning the MTP connectors in broadcast environments. Supposedly they are harder to clean and to maintain. I looked it up - there is cleaning equipment available but testing devices for MPO/MTP seem to play in another league. My original idea was not to test the MTPs directly but after the breakout cable, using a conventional powermeter for LC. How did you get along with those routines? Did you have any blackouts on the cable yet? Thanks!
I haven't had any issues with the cable.
I keep the protective ends on the cable when it isn't actively plugged in, and avoid touching the ends as well. So far so good.
Had you ever considered CWDM? We found the price of replacing the SFP was less than the difference in price to an opticalcon MTP.
Yes, but finding 6G-SDI compatible SFPs has proven difficult.
Doug Johnson Productions ah yes. I bought all 3G. I believe they had 6 and 12 g available at FS when I asked for the custom design but they were really expensive.
They don't seem to carry them any longer either.
I haven't given up on the idea, but it isn't as pressing now with 24 strands available.
Hey Doug, I have following you for a while and looking exactly for this solution for a new trailer build. I was wondering thought, why you did not use BiDi SFPs for all of your camera inputs?
Cost. The Camera Converters and Studio Converters came with transceivers already, so going BiDi would require me to re-purchase a minimum of 16 of them. At some point I will add some BiDi SFPs to the mix, but for now it doesn't make a lot of sense when I have plenty of fiber lines available.
Hey Doug, quick question, how do you sync all of the different cameras? Different models, converting the signal, and processing adds latency which is terrible for live video production.
I don't convert signals unless I have to. I make sure to set the cameras to the video format I've selected for the event. When I do have to do conversions for laptops or whatever, I usually use the Decimator MD-HX, which has very low latency for its conversions.
Hi Doug. Here in Brazil i have worked on a ISP with fiber optics cables and particularly the connectors head are to sensible to the dust and some cases make the equipment not syncronize with the OLT. If we compare Fiber optics with SDI isn't simple like SDI to terminate the fiber connector. So, with that all for you what the advantage to use fiber cables over SDI under 300ft?
In my case, it's that a single fiber cable carries video in two directions in addition to tally and intercom, and that it can go miles if needed. It can technically be done with SDI, but you'd have to run two cables to achieve the same thing. And when you get down to it, fiber is cheaper in the long run using the Blackmagic-based solution I went with. If you get into 6G- or 12G-SDI for 4K, supported distances over copper SDI cables shrink drastically -- even 50m is difficult to achieve.
With a production trailer/truck, fiber is pretty much the only way to go -- distances over 100 meters are the norm rather than the exception. I've had gigs where I have to run cables 400m. But even before I built the trailer, the simplicity of it was really appealing, only having to run a single, really thin cable holds a lot of appeal.
I have a video on the channel that covers many of the pros/cons of the different interconnect types: ruclips.net/video/U7p7OboXZRQ/видео.html
Doug, can you elaborate on the breakout connectors? Looking at the FS order form there are several questions on connectors and ends.
There are several things that have to be taken into consideration when selecting which breakout connection you need. It's a little more complicated than just saying "buy this product."
But, with that said, here are the two that I got for the setup demoed in this video:
www.fs.com/products/31066.html, customized as follows: Breakout Length - 0.5m equal breakout, Cable Type - Bunch, Fiber Count - 24 Fibers (1x 24F), Connector A - *Male* APC 0.35dB, Connector B - LC UPC Simplex, Cable Jacket - OFNP, Breakout Leg - 2.0mm, Pulling Eye - None, Length - 1m
www.fs.com/products/31066.html, customized as follows: Breakout Length - 0.5m equal breakout, Cable Type - Bunch, Fiber Count - 24 Fibers (1x 24F), Connector A - *Female* APC 0.35dB, Connector B - LC UPC Simplex, Cable Jacket - OFNP, Breakout Leg - 2.0mm, Pulling Eye - None, Length - 1m
And for reference, the main cable is www.fs.com/products/70220.html, customized as follows: Fiber Counts - 24 Fibers, Connector A - IP67 MTP-24 Female 0.35dB, Connector B - IP67 MTP-24 Male 0.35dB, Polarity - Type B Cross, Pulling Eye - None, Length - 152.4m
Also, I should mention that I'm not loving these IP67 connectors they use. I've had the little nubs which hold two mating connectors together shear off in two of them and I've had to replace them with small set screws. They seem more fragile than I'd hoped.
@@djp_video Thanks, I am basically trying to replicate part of what you have done. We currently have a decent sized Dante based system (QL consoles with 3 Rio stage boxes, Shure Quad ULX receivers and many AVIO dongles) using Cat5 snakes from the stage back to our front of house van. We run sound, lighting (5 universes of Artnet), and two screens (Matrox stream H.264). We are adding Dante AV and want to go fiber for everything.
I did not understand the male/female relation of the bulkhead connectors. From your description above I am guessing they are Male/Female. As of right now I am going to get the same trunk as you. I am only immediately going to connect our Cisco switch in front of house to one of the stage Cisco switches and use another fiber to daisy chain a second switch on stage. The next phase will be using fiber to run the stage screens and eliminate the latency the Matrox causes. Do you have a preferred SFP? The one you listed at the time is no longer available on Amazon.
I will always be the only one running the snake so I will be very careful of those connectors unless you think there is a better option.
@@djp_video One more thing, guessing the breakouts should be straight thru because you are doing the crossover in the snake??
The couplers only line up the two cables to interface with one another, so they have to be male/female so the cables can line up and mate properly with one another. The connection between cables inside of the coupler is direct, cable-to-cable.
A "better option" than IP67 would be cables using OpticalCON MTP-24 connectors. But you're getting into a lot more money for the privilege -- easily more than double. Your call.
The wiring of the breakouts doesn't matter that much because the LC cables are separate and you can wire them up in whatever order you want. If you want to order one with B type wiring you can, but you can always get an A type and just connect them in reverse order and achieve the exact same result.
Do they support 3G connectivity? on their website it says 40G? thx
Fiber cables are just passive cables that transmit light. Speed isn't really a consideration. A cable certified for 40G will definitely work for 3G.
Hi, did you order that fanout cable twice with male & female APC connectors and do you have lc simplex or dublex connectors in the other end? I'm also wondering, if my main cable polarity is type B, should fanout cables be also type B polarity?
Both of my fanout cables are identical. They're MTP24 to LC simplex. I just have to remember that the strand numbers are reversed -- so strand 1 on one end corresponds to strand 24 on the other end.
Just a quick question, how did you add the Bulkhead Adapter in to the rack? Is it custom made or can you buy that kind of rack at fs.com also?
I cut my own hole. I have a knockout punch of the proper size, so it was pretty easy to do.
How well do you trust vehicles running over that? I have a dual strand military cable and it just feels too fragile to me for that.
I wouldn't intentionally lay it down in the path of vehicular traffic, but with incidental contact I think it would be fine.
i am from india...any work india regarding fiber optic services,we can support u or any where in the world tooo....
Hi Doug, thanks for the informative video
Does the cable have to be male on one side and female on the other, or can i order the same gender on both sides?
You can pick and choose as you desire. Traditionally the breakout ends (whether that be cable or cassette) are males with the cable being female, but there aren't any hard and fast rules. I personally use cables with one male and one female end so it will be easier to chain multiple cables together, but there's no "right" way to do it.
Hi Doug, thanks for the video. Regarding the gender of the MPT connectors, do you have a female connectors on both ends of the trunk cable and male connectors on both fan-out cables?
The trailer connection is male, and the breakout box connection is female. So the cables are female on one end and male on the other. This makes it easy to extend with additional cables without having to change genders or do anything else weird.
@@djp_video Thanks!
Hi Doug, can you tell us more about the devices you are using to connect your camera through fiber optic. I saw that you are using black magic studio converter on the OB Side, and Sony cameras on stage. Do you use BMD camera converter on the cam side ?
Thx
Start with this video: ruclips.net/video/r0wEU7OAVQk/видео.html
Thx ! I missed this video... you’re saying the camera converter does not support 4K and that you’re able to send video signal in 4K by another fiber link so what are you using to send 4K video signal over fiber? And do you have an opinion on BMD STUDIO CAM OR URSA broadcast?
When I need to do 4K live, I'll run a separate fiber cable just for the 4K video and use one of the Optical Fiber converters with a 6G SFP.
I'm really not a fan of the Blackmagic Studio cameras. Their low light performance is quite poor. They're really only useful outdoors in the sunlight, or in a studio environment with studio quality lighting. The Ursa Broadcast is a little better, but still isn't ideal.
How have the MTP-24 Connectors held up?
The MTP portion has been just fine. The waterproof housings have had a couple issues. The small nubs inside the twist connector broke off and I had to replace them with metal set screws. But other than that they've worked well.
@@djp_video that’s good to hear, on the fence for opticon 24 or your MTP with the weather proof housing
Um, I thought an sfp+ has two elements an tx side and an RX side, so to establish a two way Ethernet connection you need both strands connected?
I'm using bi-directional SFPs for my network so I only need a single strand to communicate in both directions. They transmit on one wavelength and receive on another, with the opposing ends swapping the tx/rcv.
djp.li/bidisfp
Doug, I notice that you have the LiveUSolo for sale on your Amazon store. I was checking at out and the price is the same that B&H! Definitely I will use your link to get one. By the way, do you think this LiveUSolo will work with iPhone hotspot? Thank you
Thanks!
It should certainly connect, and will work as long as you have enough bandwidth to stream.
Doug Johnson Productions I will keep you posted, soon as I get of course!😉
What gator case size is this that the fiber equipment is housed?
That's a GR-2S.
Can you post a link to the 1x4 passive optical splitter that you use? I have a similar set up, but I am using a 12 channel MTP connection, and I could use additional fibers. It might be cheaper to add two of the passive splitters so I can run two return signals, eight cameras feeding video to the switcher, and two for ethernet instead of replacing 1000 feet of fiber. I tried a 1x8 optical splitter in the past, but I think the optical loss was too high for the cameras to get a good return signal. Since my camera return video is only HD, I was thinking of trying and SFP+ module meant for 40 or 80 km signals, but if you have a solution that has worked for you, I’m willing to give it a shot.
I got them on eBay, and those listings have long since disappeared. But here's a used one that's currently for sale: www.ebay.com/itm/Newton-Fiberworks-NFS-208-01M-1-Meter-Singlemode-LC-LC-Splitter-1x4-Equal-Split/183797630800?hash=item2acb314750:g:8sUAAOSwcjBczGRB
Oh, and it looks like fs.com can build them too: www.fs.com/products/30072.html
Doug Johnson Productions I had previously bought a cheap one on eBay, and thought that could be my problem as well. Since I saw your link that FS.com sells them too, I’ll certainly go that route, their prices look better than eBay as well. Thanks!
How is your breakout in the truck?
Basically the same as the breakout box in the video, except that I've reversed the camera connections front-to-back. The back side of the panel goes to the Studio Converters, and the MTP fanout cable gets plugged into the front. That way I can plug in cameras locally at the trailer when necessary easily.
Livestream erupts in 2020. DJP is positioned for the avalanche of live event cancellations.
One could certainly look at the optimistic side of the situation. So far no increase in business, though.
Hi Dough, thanks for the video! I very much like the idea of breakout box of yours and thanks for the "cable porn" :D . Btw: I very much aware of FS website for some time as network admin for their switching products. But I can't find the armed multifiber cable with multifiber connectors, I can see option individual LC/ST/FC... connectors but not multi fiber connectors. Could you please point me to the right one?
TY!
There's a link in the video: djp.li/fstrunk