Honda Oil Dilution Issue - Should you buy a new Honda
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- In this video, we answer a widespread question about the newer Honda 1.5l Turbo engine. "Oil Dilution. What is it? How bad is it? Should it keep you from buying a new Honda?"
Tom Lambert has been a mechanic and auto repair shop owner in Layton, Utah, for almost 30 years. On our channel, Tom shares his years of experience and knowledge about car manufacturers, repairs, and other automotive-related topics. 
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I have a 2016 civic ex-t with a 1.5 turbo and have 188k and have had no issues with this. I do have a longer commute to work, so this is probably why my car hasn’t had issues.
Honda does build some of the best engines going back decades. I bought a 2006 Odyssey with 150K miles 7 years ago. I started getting random misfire codes. Changed spark plugs and coils, problem continued. Took it to the dealership as I figured they'd find the issue with Honda specific computers and Honda trained and certified techs. First time I took it in they said the misfire is so minimal it's barely registering on their computers. They erased the code and sent me on my way. A few months later the same codes popped up again. I took it back. They recommended I do a valve adjustment and that this "should" correct the issue. After doing some research I confirmed these J series V6's do require it after 100-150k miles. At this point the van has somewhere around 180k miles so I figured what the heck. If it will correct the issue and it needs it anyway then it's worth the $800 they quoted me. Another few months go by and the codes come back! Now I'm getting agitated. I go back a 3rd time and they give me the same story, it's minimal and not affecting the engine. Now I take to the forums and start doing some more digging. Turns out Honda's fuel saving feature, VCM, was the culprit. After learning of all the problems this system caused in multiple models (Pilot, Ridgeline, Accord) I decided to take matters into my own hands. I followed the many recommendations of installing a VCM Muzzler. Holy cow! This little device that cost less than $200 fixed the issue! The van is now well over 200k miles and running like a champ. I called the dealership and asked them why no one thought of suggesting VCM was the issue. I told them I found service bulletins from Honda about the issues VCM causes and even a class action lawsuit to have piston rings replaced! But unfortunately for me that covered only certain models starting in 2008. Moral of the story, Honda along with many other manufacturers build really good engines but screw them up with all these fuel economy systems that eventually end up causing extreme damage which will cost way more to fix than any "savings" you may have gotten. Of course by the time the problems arise you are probably out of warranty. I consider myself lucky that someone other than Honda figured out a simple and economical solution. Knowledge is power. If you plan on keeping your vehicles long term, educate yourselves! (Sorry for the long post, it's just aggravating to see another round of problems cropping up on otherwise really good engines, all in the name of trying to get 1-2 mpg savings, which the everyday consumer doesn't really see or benefit from anyway!)
thanks for the educational informative post! I'm well aware of this issue, from reading on the Ody forum, for Odyssey's. Classic that a dealer wouldn't mention that since they either dn't know, or they dn't want to make Honda look defective in design, which it absolutely was for many years re the VCM system, presumably still is. Not only Honda, all makers with cyl deactivation, cause engine issues and failures, GM being the most famous infamous one
Sometimes owners abuse their cars and cause issues, not necessarily the design of the car. I'm not saying you did, but a past owner might not have been changing the oil regularly. Cars need maintenance and some people have no clue what that means.
I just got a V6 accord and am looking to get the vcm tuner but unfortunately they keep selling out the day the new batch is released… hopefully I’ll have better luck next time.
@@18_rabbit Thanks for reading my extremely long post! I agree. Honda has built their reputation on durable and reliable vehicles. But unfortunately everyone has to abide by government regulations and these are the results. By the time these systems start causing serious issues, the vehicle is out of warranty and most people will just buy a new or gently used one instead dealing with it.
@@methanial73 "Sometimes" is an understatement. I honestly believe 95% of people driving a vehicle have no clue it requires regular maintenance. I have a friend that leased a new Audi SUV last year. She has no clue about cars. She asked me the other day if I think she should get an oil change because she now has 10K miles on it. She said no one at the dealership told her about maintenance. I'm like yeah of course they didn't. 1. It's a lease so you're trading it in, in about 3 yrs so if it breaks later it's someone else's problem and 2. If it breaks while you have it they hope you bring it to them to fix it or put you in another car! I can't stand dealerships. Odyssey's are known to have major transmission failures. I change the fluid on mine every other year regardless of miles. Also recently changed the pressure sensors and checked the solenoids. I changed the filter a few years back. It's shifting smooth and strong. I change the engine oil every 5K miles or 6 months, which ever comes first. Engine runs great. It's old and beat up on the outside but solid mechanically.
I would stay away from all mainstream small turbo engines and try to get a 2 liter - 2.5 liter non- turbo if possible
fair enough
happy with my 07 civic lx :)
Got rid of 2019 CRV. Was changing oil every 3000 and it was BLACK! Got the 4 liter 4Runner.
Smart
I have two direct injected cars and at a 5k oil change interval I haven’t had an issue. I even sent a sample to Blackstone at 3k miles from my 2.0 turbo Volkswagen (direct injection) and it came back perfect. I have no reason to believe that my direct injection Honda is any different.
Change your oil every 5k miles and it’s not an issue.
The carbon is not due to efficiency, its due to direct injection and the recirc.
I put a catch can on mine to help mitigate that.
They need to do dual injection with port injectors and direct injectors like Toyota. I want to buy a new Honda/Acura because I love the efficiency of the 1.5L but I also keep my cars for over 10 years.
Yup Hyundai has these problems because most of their engines are direct injection. They recommend running a system cleaner through one of the vacuum hoses while the engine is running so it can clean the carbon off the valves. If the engine is super dirty man that's a smoke show. But usually runs "better" afterwards
@@SUp3RpooP3r7698 all in the efforts to "reduce" emissions. What a joke, my 2000 Acura TL needs the intake carbon cleaned every 100k or so due to the EGR and PCV system but the valves remain spotless.
@@Darksyne I have a Subaru STi now, used to own a Chevy Cruze, but I'm happy that it has port injection so I don't have to worry about all those direct injection problems. EPA and all these agencies forcing manufacturers to produce these crappy engines are the problem. I never understood the big deal about car engines being so dirty when the airline industry and people that own private jets put more pollution in the air than any of us ever could in multiple lifetimes, oh yeah, and China.....
Wow -a great thorough explanation - This ties together in a very comprehensive way a few things I had heard before. Many thanks!
We live in Montana, not many short trips, and we had oil dilution issues on a 16 and 18 Crv's with the 1.5 T. Oil was always way over full and smelled very strong of gasoline. Didn't think we had issues until I started checking oil myself. The worst part was the response we had from Honda. Deny, deny, deny. I traded for a 19 Passport with the N/A six cylinder engine.
The good old tried and true J35 V6 hasn’t impressed me until I learned about the oil dilution in their turbo 4’s. I installed an S-VCM and an Idlestopper in a 2019 Acura MDX so 3cyl don’t shut off on the highway and also it doesn’t shut off on a stop sign. Otherwise they’re hearty engines when maintained. 100k timing belt, water pump sparkplugs are about it. Don’t forget the transmission fluid, transfer case, rear diff fluids before 60-80k
So you gave them more of your money?
My dude, you should have more respect for yourself than that.
They screwed you with a major engine issue then doubled-down and refused to take responsibility. So, your solution is to just give them more of your money? lol
@nodak81 what else could I do, I wasn't going to sell it to someone else with the issue. I'm just not that kinda guy.
@@xxlxpman at least the J35 V6 has been tried and true and they haven’t tried any of the crazy stuff on it. I would, however run an S-VCM Controller and or an Idlestopper. They’re both about $200 total worth of easy plug and play devices but IMO well worth it as preventative upgrades
Awesome information! I follow several automotive channels and this is the first time I see one of your videos. Thanks for this awesome explanation! Cheers!
Thank you!
Thank you explaining why there are issues with the 1.5t and how to minimize or avoid future engine problems. I got the 1.5t with 26k on it, now approaching 56k. I live in California and most of my driving is highway. I haven't experienced any issues yet and have changed the oil every 5k. I hardly ever drive in sport mode pushing the engine hard, and I've had fuel injection service as recommended and using high octane fuel. Great performance thus far. Hopefully it continues as maintenance is done. Once again, thank you for educating me about this engine.
Low tension piston rings are probably also a factor. All manufacturers are struggling with this as rings are the primary source of friction in engines.
That is the whole problem, not enough ring tension for a turbo engine. Low engine temp equals greater piston to wall clearance. Direct injection doesn't "force" fuel past the rings that is compression multiplied by the forced induction of the turbo. Also the amount of fuel supplied by the injectors is no more than what is needed by the engine.
I have heard honda 1.5 taints the oil in a few weeks
epa and feds are the true issues with I.C.E.!!!
Exactly. This was not a widespread issue until the manufacturers started lessening the tension on the piston rings, in addition to higher fuel pressure GDI & most likely higher cylinder pressure due to the turbocharger (forces more air into the cylinder).
All efficiency has been gotten out of conventional piston engines without sacrificing durability. The government needs to lay off and engineers need to start over-building engines again with reliability in mind.
Thank you for such an informative video, we need more honest caring auto specialists.
Glad it was helpful!
Very good video on this issue! Thanks for your honesty, info and help! If I lived in Utah, I definitely would use your shop and give you my business!
Thank you!
Thank God for sensible explanations and no over-dubbed thumping music.
Great information. The nostalgia for the 2.4 stronger than ever.
Probably the most reliable Honda you could buy today would be the lowest mile K24 Accord/CRV you can find. Although the J35 is still a fantastic engine despite all the modifications to eke out every last mpg possible, e.g., VCM, ditching VTEC etc..
I tip my hat to you sir! Great job explaining the mechanical issue and giving Honda owners several workable solutions 😊. Excellent
Thank you!
This is by far the BEST summary I have found out here so far.
What are your thoughts on the Fuel Injector model/manufacturer change? And have you seen failing fuel injectors? What about fouled spark plugs?
We are at our wit's end with a Honda dealership in the greater Houston area and hoping to find an independent mechanic like yours that we can trust. They are refusing to apply any of the Honda Service Bulletin's / software updates to our car because the service manager told us "they don't work.
Yes, we are seeing fuel injector failures quite often as of late. We haven't seen fouled spark plugs but are often times changing earlier than the normal 100k miles when we find issues.
Great video! Thanks for all the "Look For" information as well as what we can do to help mitigate a huge problem. Also, 5000 miles is an easy number to remember to change the oil and rotate your tires. Thanks for the good information.
Glad to help!
Just bought 2019 CRV EX, 25000 miles. Our first Honda. A little concerned about the 1.5 but do appreciate this video
Just bought a new '23 Civic sport hatch a few weeks ago and opted for the 2.0L NA engine as I've never trusted the reliability of these tiny turbos. Sounds like I made the right choice
Same got mine aswell.
Yes you did!
I'm waiting for a Sport Hatch 2.0L with manual transmission to show up at a local dealer. No, I didn't order one. I'm not in a need of a car, but if one shows up, I'll make an offer and see where it goes. It's probably going to be the last chance to get something like that without too much new tech and useless gizmos. I mean, these 2.0 are the last of Honda engines WITHOUT Turbo and WITHOUT Direct Injection. Yes, I'm aware of the fact that even Honda's own website had it INCORRECTLY listed as Direct Injection (they fixed it some months ago), and that many auto websites like CarAndDriver still list the wrong information. The so-called "journalists" these days.
I’m rolling the dice. I got the sports hatch 1.5. Drives fun though
Thinking about getting one of those. I've heard oil catch cans from the PCV help with blowby. @@snc237
I must say this for me this was one of the best talks ive herd on this problem thank you very much someone that knowd what there talking about cheers. 😊
Thank you!
Great video! Thanks for the detailed review and advice.
Thanks for watching!
I worked at Honda's emission lab. I saw all of the current production engines do this in certain conditions. Direction injection, short trips. Cold weather makes it worse.
Does the current 22+ Civic have the dilution issue?
They are still selling this engine too. Should I take a chance on one or just go with the 2.0 hybrid?
@@jackanderson2773 Got the hybrid. for my wife.
@@powerstroketurbo95 Honda and the forums say the issue has been fixed
That had to be a cool job. Thanks for sharing
Had the same issues in the first mazda DI platform. We ended up using a different oil solution (generally anything formulated for euro spec engines and/or everything dexos 1 and above.) oh and ventilation of the block with catch cans.
Toyota engineers are actually quite smart and implemented a nice solution to the carbon build up issue with DI engines. Toyota uses two sets of injectors in their dynamic force engines, one direct and the other one behind the valve like a port injection style. The computer actually chooses which particular injector to use depending on several engine load and driving conditions. Also they went the N/A route avoiding any issues with a turbo.
oh nice! thank you for sharing
Toyota went the turbo way. Look at the new tundra and tacoma. We will see if the new Corolla goes with a turbo or not in 2025 to compete with the civic
Our Rav4 also has an electric water pump, which reduces liquid flow when the engine is cold! The engine warms up incredibly fast, which would reduce this issue.
That's why I bought a new Toyota, the D-4S injection system is great.
@ShadetreeAutomotiveLayton yeah it's the 4-DS injection system, just got a new Camry because of it and the real 8 speed transmission. My last two cars were older Accords which I loved but I noticed the problems with this earth dreams nonsense and couldn't justify paying $30k for a car with a iffy engine.
great video, needed this information. been on the fence on a 2018 accord but the 1.5t scares me away.
Great explanation… really help’s understand the issue
I have a 2017 CRV and have never had that problem... I am a fanatic about maintenance and change my oil every 5000 miles or less, they did put a battery in my car a few years back under warranty and that`s when they did the software update... I have 72,000 miles now and car runs great would like to know Pennzoil product you guys use for the carbon buildup, not sure if I have that problem as I travel back and forth from Florida to Ct and we are doing 80 mph the whole way...
I have had this problem on our 2020 card. At the last only change I pulled 6 quarts of fluid out of the oil drain. It smelled like gas for sure and the car had been running terrible with no pickup. As soon as I changed the oil the car ran much better. I definitely agree with changing the oil at 5k miles. I wish we had bought a card with a different engine.
Man thanks for your work!
Great information. Well done
I own a 2016 CIvic with the 1.5t currently at 110k mi no dilution issues and she runs strong. I routinely change oil at 15%. That being said i also live in Phx and commute 45 min a day, so this info certainly aligns with my scenario.
HAHA ! I live in Buckeye west of Phoenix also . Unburnt fuel gets burned off pretty around here ! 🌵🥵
You probably never did an oil test lol
You change oil at 15%???
@@johnball8758isn’t that what most people do?
@@johnball8758 Honda vehicles since the 2000's has a maintenance minder, counting down from 100% oil life to 0%.
2018 crv here and never had an issue although we did receive an update through recall. Live in northern Canada
Very informative video
thank you for your information!
Good video with excellent explanation of issues and resolutions for customers.
Rare mechanic that is honest and tries to help customers with problematic design issues.
He should apply for a PR position at Honda. Putting all the onus on the customer for a known design flaw. Change the oil twice as often, all cars do this, it’s not that bad, 😂
@@BreadAndGatorade It's a stop-gap measure to prevent the engine from dying an untimely death.
Thank you!
Direct injected turbo engines seem to all suffer from this and the valves getting gunked up (unless it's a dual type injection). This is why I got rid of my 19 Ranger, I'm not waiting 10 years for a lawsuit to reimburse me for an engine that ended up 1-2 quarts overfilled. Catch cans don't prevent the issue either.
thats from using crappy 87 fuel
catch cans do help prevent carbon "gunked" buildup. Also, using high quality synthetic oil and changes at 5k vs 7.5k or 10k. To prevent the gas in the oil pan, got to get the vehicle up to temp. Cold and short drive cycles will exasperate the issue. Should have taken the Ranger to dealer under warranty and have them address the concern. But, maybe getting rid of it was the right move...
@@Fa5Squad is using mid-grade sufficient, in your opinion?
@@Fa5Squad 93 octane for my 2.0T Audi.
Thanks for the info Tom! I have a 2020 CR-V and haven't had issues yet. But I live in southern Arizona and typically drive at least 20 minutes to work at the minimum. However, while I was searching for a new vehicle, I did test drive a 2018 CR-V and when I checked the dipstick it wreaked of gasoline. They knew something was up and it almost kept me from buying Honda ever again. Mind you my first car was an 82 Civic CVCC Wagon, then I've owned an '88 and '92 Civic which were gems. Then on to a 2007 Civic which was incredible. Bought my daughter the 2017 Civic and she's had the updates as well as I'm a stickler for getting that oil change every 5,000 miles. The dealer has told me we don't need to do that with the CR-V or the Civic, and I tell them I still want it. Appreciate this breakdown video!
So has it helped you? The 5,000 intervals?
I can only say I haven't smelled gas in the oil and both our cars are doing swell. So I can at least say it hasn't hurt!
@@CenobiteBeldar
Thank you!
I'm keeping my 2016 Accord Sport 6mt for a lot longer. 85k, no oil burning or fuel dilution. Get it out on the highway at least once a week and blow out the cobwebs
As an owner of a 9th gen si k24. I have zero interest in any new Hondas. They all seem to have odd issues... and I love Hondas. 265k miles. And only had to replace the clutch at 245k and the radiator at 260k. Fluids obviously. But the car is a champ
Good explanation of the problems. If summarized correctly, is that Honda made an a motor that has issues and the burden (cost / expense) has been shifted to the customer with more frequent oil changes, de-carbon the motor, more service on the motor, etc.). No where did the video talk about Honda compensating their customer for their design / manufacturing issues.
Stupid EPA. There are environmental costs associated with failed engines and added maintenance!
Excellent explanation…thanks
WOW. I guess you'll learn something new everyday. Here I thought Fuel Injection completely eliminated Fuel dilution Problems. Thanks for the update.
No dilution on mine, after the dealership did the SW update and after i started changing the oil by myself. The dealerships routinely overfilled my Civic when they did the oil change. Yes, you heard me right. I also monitor how much is drained at every change now and so far, no problem at all. Interval of 15 percent of honda minder, full synthetic only with new filter every time.
You also KNOW..( specifically if you have sense enough to use a proper torque socket wrench) that when you change your own oil...The oil drain plug..ISN'T over torqued unlike at some dealerships or especially these idiotic quick lube places who love to use a damn air wrench to torque it.
@elim7228 Does the dealership do the SW update for free? Can I simply call them up and ask for the update? I'm out of the warranty window already.
@@nesone6520I’m under warranty so I will be asking for this. I believe the software updates has the car rev at 2k rpms for a minute or so upon startup
My 2018 Civic Sport had the turbo 1.5 and it had the fuel smell problem around 30,000 miles. I ended up having to change the oil every 2500 miles. I sold it when it was about out of warranty and bought a natural aspirated V6 Lexus.
@@jalopy2472Same engine in my 2013 Venza V6. 110k miles on it, and the oil is golden honey at 4000 miles on it. like new.
Lexuses are ugly af, but the FK8 civics are worse, so you upgraded!
@@qx4n9e1xpugly af?
I change the Camry oil at about 5500 miles and it is like new, kind of Sam Adams amber, but no soot, never burned a drop@@SuperMan-uj7dh
@@qx4n9e1xpFK8’s are the ugliest civics ever made!
Thanks for a really great succinct explanation. Do you know what Honda did for the 2019 engines to solve the probem?
Great Video! Well organized with straight forward communication. Well done!
I have a 2017 Civic EX with the 1.5. 90k and so far so good. I live in CA. and the weather is usually 70• - 100• year round.
Would like to know what product you recommend for cleaning the Carbon Buildup? There are a lot of them out there.
marvel mystery oil!
We use a Valvoline product. BG also makes a good one
Direct injection and boost doesn't always mean best emissions.
In theory it should help meet emission targets but there are actually a few downsides to direct injection, one being fuel droplets actually making contact on bore surfaces and being out of suspension.
Another being carbon build up on the back of the inlet valves and ports because there is no fuel scrubbing action.
Honda isn't the only manufacture with these issues.
When this started, China forced Honda to do a full recall on all of their cars to fix this. China is a wide variety of weather conditions so I don’t think it’s weather related since people from the Middle East were reporting oil dilution as well. There was a guy on RUclips who posted a video last year on his 2022. He had the oil changed in October and by December his oil level was half an inch over full.
Lol
You do know that there are all kinds of weather in the middle east ? 😂
@@hondamanvtec2894 I know that. I never said it was related to only summer or winter. Did you even read what I posted? Or did you not listen to the video?
Wow. I think that guy likely has an injector failing or a bigger problem. It shouldn't happen that fast.
i work at goodyear// and we also use the Valvoline valve cleaner.. but a a former Classic Italian car tech/ restorer, i was not sure about this.... so i brought my friends bmw.. in very well know for carbon build up on the valves. and did a test,, we followed the instructions ..to the letter.... before we did the cleaner.. we took the intake manifold off the car.. took photos of all the valves... put the manifold back on and proceeded to use the Valvoline treatment ..besides killing every living thing around our shop... we went though the process... ,, after the engine cooled down.. 4 hours.. we removed the intake manifold... carbon still there.. manifold back on and every 250 mile we took the manifold back off... we got very fast at this part... but after 1000 miles , we saw no improvement on carbon lessening off the intake valves... none at. all.. i know this is only one test... but that carbon, is cooked onto the valves.. and even walnut shell blasting take time to remove the carbon... and also it is not recommended to use this product in a turbo car.. as a possibility of carbon fowling the turbo charger.. and damaging it,, and also the chance of small flakes of carbon, getting stuck between the piston and rings and the cly. wall,, this would cause premature engine failing do to the lack of the rings sealing to the cly walls.... we only recommend walnut shell blasting on badly carboned up valve.. we also install an oil vapor separator to keep the oil vapor's and other nice goodies, from entering the intake track... but that is just us....no such thing as ' fix the engine in a can ' right?
I’m new to the channel, love your content and explanations. Just recently purchased a 2024 Honda CRV EXL 1.5T. What changes has Honda made for the 2024 engine to stop any potential oil dilution problems? And is the carbon build up on the valves still an issue with this current model year? I do make short trips of 5 1/2 miles in Southern UT. Thanks again for the channel.
There have been many design and programming changes to the 2024. You are still at risk of some oil dilution but noting to worry about. Same concepts apply though. Service it more often than what the dealer recommends. My 2023 Civics still get serviced every 5k miles.
I have a 21 CRV and it does get cold here in Ohio too. Last winter the temperature dropped into the negatives and it snowed. I do not push my car like normal in snowy conditions and the car struggled to reach operating temperature and I drove it 19 miles to work. I hope the software update addresses operating temperature and cabin heat in extreme cases.
It does not...can't beat physics.
No the software update did nothing. There is no fix just drive it till its dead or dump it.
In the winter, be sure to get your car running while you finish getting snow off. Don't just crank up and go. Always good to let it idle for a bit in winter weather.
Put in a radiator cover cardboard like the big rigs. These engines are too damn efficient.
@jo9732 😂😂 As a truck driver this might work but I would start with small piece
After watching this video and reading all of the comments, I’m glad I bought a Toyota.
I had a 2018 Civic Si in the NE. Fun car, but tons of oil dilution. Changed the oil very early 3-5k. Never had any major problems.
My 2019 civic coupe 1.5t has been fine so far. Im at 60k miles now. I change my oil every 3500 miles. I keep my eye on the pcv valve and change it every 20k. Im also running lucas low viscosity oil additive. Just incase. I also switched from the honda A02 filter (made by fram) to a baldwin, Purolator boss, or full , oil filters. I also use crc intake valve and turbo cleaner often as in 5-7x a year. Right before an oil change. I always warm it up during winter here in VT , and never do short trips and just shut it off.
We have a 2019 CRV 1.5, even with the fix - still has gas oil dilution. It even has it in summer, albeit less. In the Midwest… Honda said the 19 “fixed” it, did not. We change oil less than 5000mi between changes. Mixed lengths drive, some highway longer, some short. Like video said some longer drives to burn off oil helps, minimize remote starts (won’t let it get to operating temp as fast). When possible we also wait a few minutes for engine to get off of minimum temp / cold to start using heat in the winter. Those few things have helped reduce it, but not eliminate it. Also Makes a lot of sense for more regular oil changes. Too bad theirs not a way for the engine to trap it and burn off the gas, even from the oil pan itself.
One person down the street who has a 2018 crv with this issue got an engine block heater and drives his in ‘sport’ after a minute or two in cooler temps to get engine warmer quicker. Said is has reduced engine oil consumption, he also changes oil at 3000mi.
Having owned several Hondas in the past with zero issues, this will likely be our last Honda. I have a 19 Ridgeline, no issues at all with oil dilution, but a totally different engine.
A guy had the dilution problem he mixed the oil 50-50 percent 0w-20 and 5w-20. He said he drove his vehicle 20,000 miles and no dilution problem . Of course he had regular oil change intervals. With the 1.5 turbo I change at 5,000 mile intervals. And use premium gas. So far no problems.I also do the 50 -50 oil mix
I had a dilution problem before mixing the oil. I also use Amsoil synthetic mixed mixed 50 percent 0w-20 and 5w-20. I also get 47.5 miles per gal on a trip from Fuquay Varina NC to Wilmington NC and back.
Thanks for sharing. Sorry your is giving you a little more grief than average
Good video...thanks. On you engine cleaning process is that recommended by Honda? During the cleaning do the carbon deposits that head to the tail pipe affect the catalytic converter? I'd like to see your before and after photos of the back side of the intake valves after this process. Not photos provided by the manufacture of the product your using. Thanks again!
The only true way to get rid of the carbon build-up is walnut shell blasting these so-called "cleaners" from the mfgs are hocus pocus shit and a big money maker for the shops....
The carbon cleaning process we use is not Honda specific. We use a Valvoline product that does a good job and is safe. Reach out to your local Valvoline rep for a demo.
@@ShadetreeAutomotiveLayton I haven't seen any where that this process is recommended by any manufacture...Ford specifically says don't do this kind of treatment because if you damage the cat or any other oem part, its not covered under warranty. Some OEM dealers offer the service any way. With all due respect what your selling, I've never seen any evidence that it does any good. The only sure fire way I've seen any evidence of proper carbon cleaning is doing it manually like walnut shell blasting. Not washing some unknown stuff down your intake system.
@@garybaldwin1061 I had an issue with carbon buildup in my 2016 Fit and Honda Canada did have a process, they took the head off and cleaned the valves with some sort of rotary brush. This is obviously quite different than what was mentioned tho
Yes, walnut shell blasting is the best way to actually clean carbon@@garybaldwin1061 . There service we do on our vehicles and our customers vehicle is not recommended by all manufacturers. Valvoline backs me up if there is every a problem. When we first started offering the service, we did remove an upper intake, use a borescope to look at valves, run the service and then check them again. Made a good amount of difference. The key is to utilize the cleaners as a preventative maintenance tool rather than a repair. Once the carbon is buildup enough to cause issues, it is walnut blasting time.
Thank you very much!
This is probably the best video I've seen on the subject. So much misinformation on why this happens, and it's refreshing to see an unbiased conversation backed by facts.
A couple things I'll add:
- On the topic of carbon buildup, Honda actually runs comparatively clean compared to most TCDI powertrains. If you do a lot of highway commuting, Honda allows a small amount of fuel to mist the intake area on the piston upstroke. The intake valves also reportedly rotate to ensure every corner gets "washed." An induction service every 30K "might" be an overkill, depending on the type of driving the owner does.
- While fuel dilution is a very real issue, the maintenance minder often intervenes before it becomes a problem. In the most extreme driving scenarios, we've seen the MM recommend an oil change as early as 2.6K. That said, some owners still report problems after the software update and increased OCIs.
- I can't remember if it was mentioned, but Honda has extended their coverage on the 2016-2018 1.5T CRV/Civic up to 6 years/unlimited miles. It's limited to vehicles in colder climates and addresses the longer concern of premature wear to the camshafts. For most, that warranty period has already expired.
Thank you!
The reason for fuel dilution is mainly ring seal.
also the GDI engines use a high pressure fuel pump to inject into the upper cylinders, after the valves, it's over thousand PSI to overcome the high pressures in the cylinders.
I’ve seen the injection time on Hondas is a lot longer than other GDI engines, the ECM commands the fuel injectors open for almost 2ms which is an eternity for GDI injectors.
Most other manufacturers have a GDI injection time of under 1ms or around 700-900us, idk if there has been software updates to change that but it’s what I’ve noticed while diagnosing this issue
Did not design the fuel injection pressure to be high enough?
@@davidpowell3347 I’m not sure if the flow rate on the injectors is lower than other manufacturers requiring them to be open longer, I’m not sure the reason I just know that a known good fuel injector is open for around 1.9ms
My guess is that the are running a lower pressure so the flow rate is a touch lower meaning they need to hold them open a touch longer. I wonder if the problem would be worse if it was higher pressure at a shorter open rate.
Thank you!
great content. thanks
Glad you liked it! thank you!
2019 Accord 1.5T and no issues. I'm guessing the slight difference in tune that the Accord has had minimized the problem. I think the engine's great. It is very fuel efficient but also offers some good get-up and go when wanted.
Do an oil analysis test and realize you're kidding yourself. I have an accord with the 2.0 with regular 4-5% fuel in tests.
@singular9 Well, I do my own oil/filter changes. No smell of fuel in oil. Plus, as the video states, Accord seems less affected. Runs like a top.
I also have a 2019 and a week ago it starts to shake when it starts but stabilizes in 4 seconds and now I even smelled gasoline I change the oil every 4K miles and it only has 32k I always use premium gas
@@joelfranco4757 Unless premium fuel is required, which it is not in the 1.5T, it won't do anything for you. It just increases your operating cost.
Id bet someone has had that issue but your correct, we havent seen any accords as of now
Just sold my 2017 civic hatch sport. Had 185,000 km on it. 1.5•L turbo. Ran like a dream. Never one problem. Just traded up to the 2023 civic hatch sport touring
Holy S-word!! I have a 2018 Civic and I've yet to hit 50,000 miles!! Do you drive across the USA, ocean to ocean every month or something? That's an insane amount of miles for a 2017 anything. Are you sure you didn't typo and you meant 85,000 and not 185,000? Even 85,000 would be extreme for a 2017.
@@markr.1984 you heard right. Although it’s 185,000 KM not miles. I drove the car from Vancouver Canada to the Florida keys twice in 2017 and 2022. Also 3 times to California, Utah, across Canada and more! Could not ask for a better vehicle
Would you have any info on Honda/Acura valve covers that deteriorate. Early 2000s more specifically. Seems like some kind of electrical arching that causes the aluminum to deteriorate? Mostly around the top, where the valve cover meets the spark plug tubes.
Good explanation 😁👌
Had a 2017 CRV. Exact issues and warning signs you described here. The software update solved nothing. Had multiple oil analysis done to make our case. Battled with Honda and the dealership for months. Even though the dealership recognized our issue their hands were tied. Finally the dealer bought our car back and we bought a RAV4. End of story.
Smart move
Thanks your video was helpful , I'm glad I stick with the older hondas, 2.4 litre engines ,turboless 2013 and older hondas are very reliable . I learned alot from you 5k oli change is the key
Glad it helped thanks for the support
Great tips! What is the specific carbon cleaner from Valvoline?😊
Do you think plug in the Engine block heater may help a little bit in cold weather.
Extremely well organized content. This observation got my attention even more than the issue being discussed, about which I now have a decent understanding because of the nature of the explanation . I would say you (possibly along with the editing) have some talent making presentations. Though you might appreciate this insight.
Am thinking about keeping my wife's 2010 Accord V6, as we have only put 30,000 miles on it. No problems, totally reliable, very quick, and gets 20-21 mpg in town driving, easily more than 30 mpg on highway (best was 35 mpg MD to Delaware on flat terrain). Not sure a newer Honda would be any better. I prefer naturally aspirated engines and dislike CVT's.
If there's not a problem don't sell that baby !
Look into vcm delete options it causes all sorts of problems like high oil consumption
My dad had one of those. Outside of eating brake pads like they were cookies to the cookie monster you’re right, typical Honda reliability.
I would not get rid of that car. Only 30K? Wow. I have 280k on my 2008 CRV and it runs like a top. If you can forgo all the gadgets on newer cars you’ve saved a boatload of $$ in car payments and repairs.
@@mercedescherokee6853
VCM killed my sisters 2008 Accord V6, mushroomed valves
Have a 2017 Honda CRV 1.5L turbo. When the issue first came out I noticed a gas smell in the car when stopped and driving. I have a long commute of one hour plus and live in NJ so cold winters. After the software update, the problem went away. I change the oil with full mobile one synthetic every 9k miles. The car currently has 248k miles on it, recently got an oil leak that I need to track down and on spark plug change cylinder 1 had some oil on the spark plug. The car can rough idle sometimes on start as oil gets up in miles but levels remain normal. Once the oil is changed rough idel on start goes away. I worry more about the CVT transmission than the engine as this is my first automatic. I change my cvt fluid when the maintenance minder says so. This is my 5th Honda, currently have a 2011 fit 350k mile as well, all went past 350k miles. 1991 CRX , 1993 accord, and 1999 accord. To Honda's credit, I only changed the CRX oil 2x in its 356k mile life. Also, never needed a new clutch and never changed the transmission oil on all 4 manuals. Not advising you to do this it is just a fun fact on Honda build quality.
I live in Greenville SC and I had this problem with a 2018 EX-L that I had. You can smell it coming through the vents but it will go away. I got into a car accident and I was able to get the 22 sport 2.0t.
First, I would like to thank you for taking the time to make this video on the 1.5 turbo. It is the most comprehensive explanation of what causes the problem and the possible solutions. Do you have any opinion on the 1.2 turbo engines that they are putting in the new 2024 Chevrolet Trac?
You are welcome. I don't have enough experience to form a solid opinion on the 1.2 in the Chev. My gut tells me it will likely have lots of issues.
@@ShadetreeAutomotiveLaytonThank you for taking the time to respond.
I'm a classic Honda fan. But sounds like Honda has lost it's way. This is an unacceptable.
Its the emission standards. Toyotas had oil burning in 2010-2014 due to weak piston rings to be able to meet the new emmision standards. All companies are struggling with it.
I have the 2018 . I use high octane gas when I fill up. Have had no trouble at 62 thousand miles. Because of this I change my oil at 5 thousand miles. It’s a 1.5 liter civic with the turbo. Love this car.
Right, I watched a RUclips video where a guy had dilution, but when he went to 93 octane it went away. He went back to 87 octane and it came back. You are correct in running premium gas. I just got a 2024 CRV and it will get a steady diet of 93 octane.
Waiting for a new video talking about an other well known problem observed in the accord 1.5 turbo which is the head gasket pb.
Thanks.
Never had a problem with my 1.5t. I’ve done all my own oil changes since new, the sump is never overfilled, there’s never any smell or sign of gasoline in the used oil. I drive my car normally and change my oil when the service light comes on. The car runs like new and has never needed anything other than basic maintenance.
What year?
@@barrya.6212
2017, never had the software update done either. 7 years old and the only thing she's ever needed was basic maintenance, oil, fluids and filters. Honestly I don't know what y'all are on about. It's never given me even a hint of trouble.
Same here with 2 new over past 5 yrs
It doesn’t happen to all the engines as people want to make it seem. My civic and mothers crv didn’t have that problem since I change our oil every 5k.
@@theholt2ic219
Some cars need it changed avery 2k miles! or even more often
I’ve done Blackstone UOA tests every other oil change on my 2017 1.5L Civic over past 65k miles. It has not shown oil dilution issues. Drive your car harder and change oil every 5k miles. There is a reason the CRV owners are the ones that talk about this the most. They never drive them hard and keep long oil change intervals.
My understanding was it occurred mostly under cold weather conditions. As mentioned here and several years ago...
Of course your Blackstone report won't show your fuel.... you burn off the fuel when you warm the oil for the oil change.
@@TheMidnightNarwhal nothing like telling the entire world you have no clue how an engine works lol
Drive it harder? That defeats the purpose of having an economical engine.
We own a 2017 CRV. I change oil myself over 120,000 km of use, from new. I can smell a bit of gas smell in oil at change, but oil volume doesn't climb per say, or seem diluted. I've been changing oil for 35 years on our family fleet, and so far doesn't seem be be an issue for us. We drive alot of hiway kilometers, and run engine at full temp most often. We live in northern BC, and Honda software update(engine warms up quicker now) and longer drives, so far engine seems okay. If we did stop and go, I'd change oil sooner also.
I was a mechanic in the 60's and 70's in the Yukon , we changed a lot of oil pans and valve covers , when the choke would stick and flood the engine with gas , and had a lot off twisted off oil pump drives as well in 46- degree's , lol.
That sounds like it was real work back in the good old days. Cheers!
The actual problem is 1.5T Accords having blown head gaskets -_- . Bought my Honda for reliability, safety and fuel mileage.. and now there’s head gasket problems cuz of the high psi and weak bolts they use, and apparently 87 fuel is terrible for turbo engines so you spend an extra dollar a gallon for 89 or 91. Fun! Fortunately how hard you drive can affect your risk, and I typically keep RPMs under 3k. Kinda crappy knowing I can’t have a little fun from time to time though.
do you do oil analysis on all suspected cases of oil dilution?
We do not. If it smells like fuel and is over full, we change oil and check for any software updates, then go from there.
For carbon build up I've been using 5 oz of Red Line 60103 SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner in most tanks of gas. The 2011 Honda Pilot I own is known for plug fouling and misfires. This seems to be working. I pull the plug on cylinder 3 at oil changes and inspect with an endoscope to monitor the situation.
That is happening due to cylinder cut off from VCM. A cylinder that isn't firing is a cylinder that is fouling.
My brother the same issue with his 1.5T Accord, 2018-2019 don't exactly remember, but he has the Touring edition of the car, it's nice, it makes good power, car is fantastic.
That said he basically runs 3-4k OCI on the car due to fuel dilution, he drives 25 miles to work one way all highway here in Mississippi.
He's done UOA tests at 5k which had him at about 4.5-5% fuel, Blackstone had fuel dilution lower but apparently they don't do super accurate fuel checks, they take known flashpoint of VOA, and compare it to flashpoint of UOA and interpolate the values. Been using Polaris which seems to actually check fuel dilution values directly, it's a good car it doesn't treat oil well often falling outside of grade, high copper/aluminum, I think his only has 80k miles on it, already had all the injectors replaced under warranty.
From my experience, using ethanol-free gas seems to help with the oil dilution issue, at least for me. I own the 1.5T engine. I have a theory that the ethyl alcohol makes gas a little bit thinner. Also the slightly higher octanes of the ethanol-free gas might help a touch too. I drive a mix of half ethanol gas and half ethanol-free in the summer but all ethanol-free in the winter and change my oil about Christmas, if it's over 3k miles. then again in February at about 3k more miles. Then I go back to 5k intervals in the spring and summer, but more more than 5k. Also, if you have one of these engines, start up and drive away straight away on a cold morning. Don't let it sit and warm up under no load, parked. You engine will warm up far faster under load, thus limiting the oil dilution. So just get in and drive it away within a few seconds.
Strangely enough you make a valid point. Yamaha outboards have a known issue of making oil. (Dilution). These higher HP outboards are used offshore and spend many many hours at idle or low rpm trolling under little to no load. It has been an issue for years and Yamaha says the remedy is to give her the beans. Italian tuneup. Run er like you stole er.
Definitely need to get a port injection intake and get rid of the direct injection.
I believe the current base civic sport has port injection!
@byungs It does, it's a port injected, naturally aspirated K20
Excellent info for this. This mechanic sounds like he'd be a great one to have on my side, except he's over in Utah and I'm in PA.
Just maintain the engine, keep short trips to minimum, be aware of it, especially in cold climate, and you'll be fine.
Will this stop me from buying a Honda with this 1.5 turbo? Nope. If I can find a good used one at the end of the year, it won't stop me from getting it if the 1.5 is under the hood.
Absolutely right my 2017CRV Ex broke down @ 68K kms because of cold temp and drive 10mins😢😢😢
The oil dilution issue has a great deal to do with the temperature of the oil in the oil pan, as the oil approach 200F, any accumulated fuel is evaporated and pull into the intake track through crankcase ventilation system and burned. So, if the oil in the oil pan even reach operating temperature once in a while (maybe as infrequently at once or twice per month), I would think oil dilution wouldn't be a significant issue.
There's exactly what I have asked. Maybe they are in cold weather for 6 months and it never gets hot enough to burn it off, it just keeps building up
Nice victim blaming. It's their fault for living in cold climates and/or not driving enough. Nothing at all to do with Honda building a crap engine. Lots of other turbo engines out there that don't have this issue...
@@nodak81 literally every turbo engine has it, Subaru, VW, etc
@@nodak81😂 bruh this is an extremely common issue
@@nodak81 Every single GDI turbo engine has this issue......
Another reason why you should not be doing 10k oil change intervals. I do every 5k or 6 mos synthetic and every 3k or 6 mos conventional.
Except most cars don’t have this problem
It does not matter if they do or do not you should not be doing 10k mile oil changes.@@brkbtjunkie
If they got direct injection with a high pressure fuel pump they got this problem. Maybe not as bad as the Honda engines because from what I have been told uses rings designed for high efficiency. If you own anything with GDI I would be changing oil sooner than later unless I have a long commute to burn off the excess fuel.@@brkbtjunkie
good stuff thamk you
I live 5 min from my work with climates dropping as low as 20F. No issue so far aside from a little bit higher oil dip stick lvl with some slight gas smell. Around winter i change my oil even though i only drove it for 2-3k miles and try to go around town for at least 20 min to keep the excess oil burned up
My 2020 Civic with a 1.5 turbo turns oil black within 3000 miles, it looks like it has 20,000 on it.
Wow ... do u use full synthetic or blend ??
Honda has a Maintenance Minder on their cars. I would suggest they come in for their changes at 40 or 30% as opposed to a set mileage. In my HR-V that's mostly doing five minute drives to work and back, it sets off a maintenance alert around 5.5k miles, but if the 1.5t needs earlier changes than it suggests, they might actually want it done before 5k. Obviously I'm not a mechanic so I'm going based off what seems logical to me, but if 5k works for customers then I guess that works too.
Hrv legit is the most reliable Honda made. They use the 1.8L or the new 2.0L in the 2023 and those are pretty good engines.
2020 Accord EX-L 1.5. Maintenance minder is usually at 40%, around 6k miles when I get my oil changed. Mostly highway miles. Had dealership check out possible gas smell on oil dipstick, they said it was fine.
@@dd89210Naturaly aspirated, non-turbo.
@@jimbike8064Of course they are going to say it’s fine because they don’t want to fix it. I recommend you get an oil sample sent to black stone on your next oil change and see the percentage of gasoline that’s in the oil.
Is the chemical cleaner for the carbon build-up safe for the catalytic converter, oxygen sensor, etc?
I have a 2018 crv with the same problem and I live in california, and now you can add an extended warranty for the a/c condenser as well. I decided to sell the car this week due to the resale value is still not bad.
no nice. whatd you replace it with?
These engines come from the factory running 16.5-18psi of boost depending on the application. That's pretty high for commuter cars. My diesel runs less boost.
That is high. Should have went 10 psi
Not true. I’ve got a 23 SI and I can barely ever get it to go above 16 psi.
Also, there were a lot of issues with lack of heat with the Hondas with these engines.
He mentioned that a few times. Did you actually watch the full video?
@@markr.1984 he may have meant "cabin" heat. the video did mention engine temp, but not cabin heat
@@markr.1984 Yes, I watched the full video, and I just watched it agin, he never mentioned a heater problem. He mentions the software update raising the engine operating temp to help the oil dilution, nothing about the lack of heat from the heater or defroster.
How about theHonda CR-V SX 2018 Diesel Turbo? Any findings you can share? You've been discussing gasoline powered Hondas how about the diesel variants?
Is this oil diluting process typically affecting only 1,5 L Turbo engines? What about Non Turbo Honda 1,5 L engines? Can you specify/advise on that ?