13 Reasons Why Failed Where Degrassi Succeeded
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- i have had the idea for this video since almost the inception of this channel, and here we are finally years later
citations:
(DCD), Digital Communications Division. “What Does ‘Suicide Contagion’ Mean, and What Can Be Done to Prevent It?” HHS.gov, 25 Feb. 2019, www.hhs.gov/answers/mental-health-and-substance-abuse/what-does-suicide-contagion-mean/index.html
Douglas, Karen M.. "Deindividuation". Encyclopedia Britannica, 4 Jan. 2019, www.britannica....
Jacobson, Sansea L. “Thirteen Reasons to Be Concerned about '13 Reasons Why'.” Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 14 May 2017, 1:00PM, www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2017/05/14/Thirteen-reasons-to-be-concerned-about-13-Reasons-Why/stories/201705140106.
O'Brien, Kimberly H. McManama, John R. Knight, and Sion K. Harris. "A Call for Social Responsibility and Suicide Risk Screening, Prevention, and Early Intervention Following the Release of the Netflix Series 13 Reasons Why." JAMA Internal Medicine 177.10 (2017): 1418-1419.
Scalvini, Marco. “13 Reasons Why: Can a TV Show about Suicide Be ‘Dangerous’? What Are the Moral Obligations of a Producer?” Media, Culture & Society, vol. 42, no. 7-8, Oct. 2020, pp. 1564-1574
videos used:
Degrassi: The Next Generation 1207 | Say It Ain't So, Pt. 1
• Degrassi: The Next Gen...
Degrassi: The Next Generation 1208 | Say It Ain't So, Pt. 2
• Degrassi: The Next Gen...
Degrassi: The Next Generation 1213 | Rusty Cage, Pt. 1
• Degrassi: The Next Gen...
Degrassi: The Next Generation 1214 | Rusty Cage, Pt. 2
• Degrassi: The Next Gen...
Degrassi: The Next Generation 1231 | Bitter Sweet Symphony, Pt. 1
• Degrassi: The Next Gen...
Degrassi: The Next Generation 1232 | Bitter Sweet Symphony, Pt. 2
• Degrassi: The Next Gen...
Inside Look: Bitter Sweet Symphony
• The Inside Look: Bitte...
Degrassi Showdown -- Bite Your Tongue Promo (High Quality)
• Degrassi Showdown - Bi...
When I first watched Cam’s storyline I thought it was genius that they made Maya angry at him. It was raw and real and didn’t romanticize any aspect of suicide.
I forgot Clay was never angry and never said “what you did was evil”
No Clay blamed himself. I was pissed because Hannah Baker added him as one of her reasons because he took no as no. He did nothing wrong and still she made him feel guilty. It would be different she left him out of the tapes and he felt this way but no.
@Lexi 93 it often is random tho. the writers could've payed more attention to him, but suicide is often random and unexpected.
@@lacvna. yes, i'm seen as a normal 16 year old girl to everyone but I have constant suicidal thoughts due to mental issues and my death would be such a surprise to everyone, in life everyone has their own lives, like degrassi everyone had different things going on so cams death just made sense because he didn't tell anyone because of his "perfect" image
@@chaosspy6723 to be fair she specifically says he isn’t a reason, she’s simply explaining why she rejected him in that moment and explains that her actions are what lead directly into the events of the next tape. She doesn’t blame him, he blames himself with the whole “if only I loved her harder or loved her sooner” thing.
I think an important thing Degrassi did with Cam's storyline is that he wasn't the bullied/outcast kid bc that tends to be the go to when it comes to stories where a character commits suicide. Not to downplay the effect bullying can have, but it showed that anyone can struggle with the kind of mental health issues that can lead to suicide or just thoughts of it. Also the handling of the aftermath of the suicide is one of the best I've seen, as we continued to see how it effects those most closely impacted by it, Zig and Dallas both putting blame on themselves for different reasons, the way it impacted Maya, her mental health and some of her relationships in later seasons, like her one with Miles (it even greatly impacted stuff for her in New Class, which was years after the suicide), and Eli, who didn't even know Cam but was the one to find him and his realization that if he hadn't gotten the help he needed the year prior that that could have very easily and likely been him.
The way they handled Maya's character in the seasons to come after was so well done. It really showed how long-lasting of an impact it could have. I kinda wish they would have been more explicit about it in New Class rather than sort of dancing around his name and the topic, but still, such a good job. They did a fantastic job with how they handled Cam's story and the aftermath.
@@4Tom4lepus4 I totally agree
Well said!
@@sharyebethancourt3660 I agree
So you’re trying to tell me that Cam wasn’t bullied and or outsides by the whole ass hockey team???? Bro did you even watch Degrassi at all!?
Tyler’s assault scene is still, to this day, one of the most disturbing, horrendous and exploitative ones I’ve ever watched on screen. There was absolutely no need to show it to that degree to ‘get the message across’.
literally still have nightmares abt it. I wish they didnt put it in. I really wish they didnt.
Exactly I felt so ICKY watching it. I actually couldn't get thru the whole scene
I stopped watching the show after that, it was too much
Especially when you compare it to how Degrassi handled assault or rape storylines. It was never as graphic as the scenes with Tyler being assaulted. When Darcy was raped, we didn't see it happen. We saw her be led into a room and the door being locked. When Paige was raped, she was shoved into the pillows and the camera went to look out the window at the rest of the party.
@@heatherduke5410 that’s because Degrassi is TV-14. 13 Reasons Why is TV-MA
Yep, 13 Reasons why is trash. Cam’s storyline is one of the best story arcs in Degrassi.
Even 80s Degrassi High handled suicide better than 13 Reasons Why.
No. They didn’t handle Claude’s story any better than 13 reasons. They kill him off and blame him for ruining their mood for the talent show and then decide to do the talent show in his honor.
@@migguzi23 that’s more so how the characters reacted not how the show was depicting it. Back in 90s people weren’t as educated about suicide and how it can really happen, as much as the reaction was terrible it was realistic for when the episode happened
@@emillee-raine yeah but adults were writing the episode. It’s fair to look back at it and say it wasn’t as good of a job. They did so much better with cam but that episode with Claude was more for the shock than fleshed out. While Claude’s suicide was the main plot of the episode it definitely wasnt the main focus because it was more about the surrounding characters reaction.
@@migguzi23 I would argue that it definitely wasn’t for shock reactions, since they didn’t show how he did it, and gave warning before the episode and talked about it again at the end of the episode. They always were very careful on handling these strong issues
@@migguzi23 it wasn't entirely written by the adults. The actual teens that played the characters on the show were involved in the script writing process and got to give their ideas/voices on how they felt they would react to the situations and then the script was changed based on their input.
degrassi was way ahead of its time. watching it as a pre-teen definitely shaped my world views and kept me aware of bad life choices. it's iconic and can't be replicated
Sentiments exactly. I watched this show in Grade Seven; and, in so many ways, it prepared me for many of the things I would face later on in my teenage years. It was such a valuable experience to have encountered this series when I did. It was a true masterpiece.
It had a diverse cast too, which was like trailblazing at the time. I forgot the name of her character on the show but I was so shook to see a Guyanese actress on the show (I thought she was Indian when I was younger) AND she was dark skinned. It’s usually always light skinned girls if they even bother having that token poc character, and again, for the time this show aired, even more impressive. I know gossip girl was huge at the time of its airing (personally didn’t watch it until like 2017/2018) but watching it back now that I’m in my 20’s I can’t stop thinking “this is such a white show” so many times during the rewatch lol
@@sams517 I think you are talking about Alli, Savs little sister. If so technically you were not wrong, she is Hindu Indo-Guyanese, so her ancestors are infact from India. She was also in a show called "How to be Indie" as the main character.. (To clarify... Indie is her characters name; Indira...) Which is based around a Indian Canadia family. So easy to see why people didn't know about her Guyanese roots and only made the Indian connection.
Don't forget that Degrassi also held a live discussion after the episode aired to give resources and talk through what happened. I think it may have been shown during the american airing too (can't remember since it was so long ago now), but it was hosted on the Canadian channel Much Music.
The writing on Degrassi was cheesy sometimes, but you gotta love how the writers/directors/producers tried to handle stories in a responsible matter
I definitely remember seeing a discussion after the end of the episode here in the U.S after that episode first aired. I can't remember what they said unfortunately but I do remember the cast all sitting together and the suicide hotline popping up on the screen every now and then. I wanna say that Cam's actor said how nice it was to portray such an important character on the show.
I think I remember that. I know there's a clip, probably on the degrassi channel, that is of parts of the episodes of the table read from the episode(s), and the only one in the cast that knew what was going to happen was Dylan. So you see the other cast members reactions and they even talk about it a little after in that too
Degrassi did something that 13 Reasons why didn’t. Degrassi never showed the actually act of Cam killing himself but you still felt the pain that Cam felt. He was such a loved character and as Stefan Brogan said “it’s so hard to see a character try and try and still lose”. Cam was an unexpected death if you didn’t watch the show super closely but after they had the proper response and showed everyones’ point of view. 13RW didn’t do that, they had a blame put on people while Degrassi didn’t and they also didn’t give a triggering scene to get the same reaction
13RW did do that, but if you say so.
Also them showing the act of it shows how gruesome it is and didn’t glamorize it or portray it as something as “going to sleep”.
@@briannabombshell1921 a show shouldn’t have to show someone slitting their wrists to send a message about suicide. Degrassi had the same or more effect and no body was seen by anyone watching the show. That’s how it should be
@@julianna197 I’m thankful the scene got removed though. When i went back to watch it again a while ago, i was mentally preparing myself to skip through all of it
@@julianna197 exactly, seeing the look on eli’s face when he found cam’s body was enough to get the point across without having to be graphic
One thing I appreciated with Cam is that it never stopped discussing the impact that suicide had on other characters. Eli is disturbed by finding Cam's body and starts up a recreational drug habit which ultimately exacerbates his mental health issues and leads to a break up with Clare. Dallas blames himself and ultimately contemplates suicide while drunk due to his guilt. Zig also deals with his guilt over what he said to Cam, blaming himself and feeling like he was the cause. He ultimately decides to be a good friend to support Maya.
Maya. Maya has the most in depth reaction to Cam death, that lasts for seasons. She first tries to avoid her feelings, acts provocatively and rash (for her character) and ultimately breaks down saying she doesn't want to think or feel what Cam did. She describes that she hates him for "breaking up with me by killing himself", and that she doesn't want to miss him anymore. In late seasons she struggles with her love life and eventually develops mental health issues that are shown to spring from her trauma. She has nightmares about her ex Miles acting in ways similar to Cam and fears he might be the same. She eventually develops depression.
The show's handling of Maya's depression is brilliant. She pushes people away through her behavior and laments about how she feels she cannot do anything right. When her mother questions her and says she's worried Maya responds that the old Maya is gone and she "can't find her anymore". She describes her depression not as sad but as numb. But the best thing I think the show ever did was show how she acted after she made the plan to commit suicide. She was joyful. She apologized to her friends and family. Made heartfelt gifts, and had a fun slumber party with her Mom and Sister. This was so deeply accurate to how mental health professionals depict people acting after they've made their choice. The relief of deciding resulted in an upturn that people assumed was "her getting better" but she ultimately attempted. And all of this, is related back in the show to her mental health and trauma issues that began with Cam. It is realistic and brilliant and I just had to rant about it.
Yes!!!! I'm so glad you shared your feelings. Your voice should always be heard❤
Yesss you described it so well
I watched Degrassi out of order as I watched next class first, but after watching cam and mayas story in next generation it showed how much maya had changed so much more, when cam commits suicide Maya is so angry that she’s numb to everything going on around her, she hates cam for what he did, she thinks it was selfish and ignorant, the next generation Maya (old Maya) would never consider suicide, but in next class she’s numb with sadness instead of anger, and then she finds no other way out of that place than the same thing that broke her in the first place, the parallels between Maya and cams stories are complex,the only difference of the outcome is that Maya got found before it was too late
Degrassi is a great show that depicts real things that happened to real teens. There are so many tough subjects that Degrassi brings awareness to and they mostly do it right. Campbell's story is so heartbreaking, but it's a great representation of suicide.
When "13 Reasons Why" came out, Degrassi actress Aislinn Paul, who plays Claire Edwards, slammed 13RW and there horrible depiction of suicide.
Where did she slammed it tho?
@@Noonecaresaboutyouu on twitter. she said that they did a shit job (not exact words) and gave a hotline for those who may be struggling with those thoughts.
Wow, this is very important and I didn't know about this ...
Yea because degrassi would never try and mentally scare me the way 13 reasons did...Degrassi opened the door for a healthy conversation to be had ,where 13 reasons just unlocked people's trauma
another brilliant element of cam's storyline is how it lead into maya's for literally the rest of the show. it's so subtle how they built it up but they show the lasting trauma that situation has on people left behind. literally my favorite degrassi storylines are cam's and then maya's afterwards they were SO well done.
Yessss! It took SEASONS for it to manifest fully!
agree! you can also see how it still affected her on next class
I think something to remember is that Cam's death wasn't Degrassi's first suicide.
In Degrassi High (the 1989 series), Claude committed suicide in the school bathroom. Throughout the season, he is an outcast, is taunted, and when he tried to reach out to his friends/ex girlfriend, he's ignored. His depression and downward spiral is shown and he does *technically* plan his suicide. Claude buys a gun, brings it to school, and then goes into a bathroom stall. He's found by Snake, a guy who didn't necessarily bully him, but actively stood by. The following episodes of the season, and the rest of the series tbh, shows the affects his death had on the school.
When it aired, it was definitely shocking. It's considered one of the first on screen suicides on prime tv and it was a minor. You knew the method, you saw his body. Even though was saw the build up to the episode, literally no one expected that. It was almost unheard of.
Even with those same factors as 13 Reasons Why, Degrassi still took the subject of suicide, during the 80s no less, and was careful with it. It wasn't some revenge plot. Claude had mental issues and it was actively shown throughout his story. They showed how some students vocally blamed Claude for his own death. They showed how some people defended him. It was a nuanced topic and the creators knew that. The affects of his suicide carried on until Snake, Principal Simpson by the end of Degrassi: Next Class, left the series. Snake was originally a pretty upbeat, although passive, guy until he found Claude. And his mentality was hurt by it.
This isn't even including the shooting of Jimmy and the death of Rick during Degrassi: TNG. Both of who are shown being shot. Rick's mentality is shown all throughout his story, as well as his bullying, and again, no one saw his last episode coming. But the show was done so well, with crafted care, that other shows copied it (One Tree Hill) within a year, to continue raising awareness.
How could a show like 13 Reasons Why have multiple blueprints at their hands, been given professional advice from multiple sources, and still get it wrong?
Money.
Claude was never bullied, he took everything people said as a slight against him
Wow, you have managed to explain it so well. What a wonderful person. Thank you!!
@@kawaiipanda4013 totally agree. No one was particularly cruel to him from what I remember. He just took everything very internally and felt rejected by everyone because his parents divorce, gf breaking up with him, and rejection of his poem for the talent show. All led to him making the decision the next day to shoot himself.
Ok but Claude sending that letter to Caitlin was messed up.
also they showed jt getting shanked
The reason why Degrassi is one of my favorite shows is because they discuss teenage issues without shock value. The episode about Cam demonstrates that you don't have to be graphic and still have an important episode done right.
I loved Cam so much, he really suffered in silence
I think the show captured this really well!! As far as I remember, we didn't even meet his host family or really see his family back home. they literally isolated him in the eye of the audience compared to other characters' parents/relationships. We really only saw him with Maya.
@@Rachel-oy9qw agreed !!!
so true!!!
I know, I wish his character stuck around more 😔
Degrassi will always be my #1 show when it comes to truly capturing pre-teen and high school years in an authentic manner. I was hooked since Season 1 of The Next Generation. R.I.P Jahmil French♥
Omg I had no idea Jahmil died that’s so sad!😢
I didn't know about this!
The thing is, when Degrassi had everyone dealing with Cam's death, they even had it pointed out that it was no ones fault that he did what he did. Zig was feeling awful about it and acting out because he blamed himself for telling Cam to stay away from Maya. It's the teacher who said that anyone could've set him off.
Degrassi also acknowledged and showed us how unhappy Cam was and how he truly didn't want to be and how he couldn't comprehend WHY he was.
I also loved everyone's reactions to his death, especially Maya's. It felt real for her to be angry, She was a young teen and this was her first ever romantic relationship. It wasn't supposed to end this way. Even later down the line, we see how it still affects her. See how she wants to protect Zig or her reactions to Miles' behavior.
13 Reasons Why was also extremely graphic with Tyler's assault compared to what happened to Darcy or Paige. Those, you didn't really SEE what happened. We saw Darcy be led into a room or Paige be pushed into the pillow and hear her trying to get Dean to stop.
The fact that they didn’t say how cam did it or show how he did it is a big difference on how 13 reasons why and degrassi handled it. I haven’t watched everything yet but I assume you’ll get to it, but it’s just that, it would cause more suicidal ideation seeing an actual suicide and it bewilders me as to why the people behind 13 reasons why would actually show a fucking suicide so graphic. Basically, degrassi did a better storyline overall and I’ll stop my was from explaining why because I know you’re about to do so.
cam's death was powerful especially how they depicted Maya handling it; her trauma continues throughout each season from the season cam committed into next class
Cam hanged himself...
@@khasualentertainment6734 I didn’t need to know nor did I want to know
@@memorydocumentation5942 did i tag YOU... nope.
@@khasualentertainment6734 Why did you feel the need to pinpoint it? There was a reason they didn’t explicitly say it in the show
Degrassi is the best teen show because it is for teens. It's not adults in their late 20's playing 15 year olds, most if not all actors are close to their ages in the show. There's a million details in Degrassi that keep to the realism, while also being an entertaining drama. The use of A, B, and C plots shows what everyone is doing, and some A plots are very dramatic, while the C plot will be funny and non consequential, except in instances like the Cam plot where there is no room to put a light heartedness. The whole school doesn't care about the dramatic A plot of a break up or whatever, but this plot line would reach everyone. Degrassi is just so real, and it doesn't sugar coat things, but also doesn't dramatize things to the point of being unrealistic. And as a teenager that was developing bipolar depression and watching degrassi, it really honestly helped to see this show. Eli especially, since he has a plethora of issues from bipolar depression to OCD and hoarding, but at the end of the day he does learn healthy coping mechanisms and lives a happier life. Given all the pain he went through, I've never seen a show give a character with this much baggage a slow, gradual happy ending. And then Craig, who relapses several times into destructive behavior, and he does see real consquences for it, but also he has a support system that stands by his side while also being conflicted on what would be best for him. I wish netflix renewed it for another season, because I was really relating to Esme songs character, and how the typical 'mean girl' ended up having horrible mental illness and trauma, and her actions were a cry for help. The way the show was unafraid to depict mental illness is such a rare and unique way really moved me. Esme did horrible things and would easily been written off as a psychopath, but built into a complex deep character was so fresh. She truly was never black and white, and I've never seen a show humanize such a flawed character without just erasing her malicous behaviors when they decided they wanted her to be liked. God, this series man. I wish it were still going on, I want my neices and nephews to be able to watch it with issues that effect them currently
Cam’s suicide hit hard but what effected me more was Maya’s storyline soon after when she breaks down.
13 Reasons why is a dangerous example of style over substance that has emerged over the last decade with the increasing popularity of taking YA content and making them into t.v. shows and movies.
The writers were specifically told what not to do when portraying a suicide scene and it's like the writers took it as a challenge instead. It was honestly disgusting, really.
The one thing 13 reasons why touched on that happens in too many schools is the guidance counselors always thinking kids are seeking attention. That happens all the time and since the show was so controversial for other things no one noticed it
I also love how even tho we never get much of a Cameron mention after his suicide, he still has an impact on the characters waaaay past season 12, specially for Maya. Whereas on 13rw, having "Hannah's spirit" roaming around Clay after her death is incredibly outputting and bizarre. Even if it's technically his imagination.
Their interpritation of it was not the best but it was clays attachment to hanna which is why he never really excepted the fact that she was gone. at the end of the series he says goodbye and she disappears. it was supposed to be about his guilt still looming over him and his exceptance at the end. Finally letting go of her
I remember a couple of Degrassi's former actors tweets with criticism of 13 reasons why going "viral"
where Degrasssi thrived was their use of nuance, you didn't have to watch a rape scene to KNOW that a character got raped
Exactly ie Paige, Darcy and Zoë :(
And when you show those scenes it gives people the idea of what to do themselves or fantasize about it imo. It's really bad to actually graphically show things like that especially to young audiences
@@dessenlover that's why the writers of 13 Reasons Why were told not to portray Hannah's suicide the way they did by suicide prevention groups, because young people could copycat it. The writers ignored what they were told though because clearly shock factor and exploitation matters more than influencing young people to hurt themselves/sarcasm
The stuff that happened in degrassi is stuff that happened to either me, my friends, or our hs/peers. It’s very realistic subjects but degrassi handles things very delicately. Even the cheesiness I can appreciate because it softens what could be extremely triggering topics. 13 reasons why was none of that and they sacrificed any realism for unnecessary shock. Rewatching degrassi after hs was nice because i was able to reflect and process stuff that happened in hs. Especially cams storyline.
I also hated the media play 13RW got after the first season. They made it seem as if showing the suicide opened up discussions about the topic. It didn't, they just wanted to hype up the show. Degrassi handled a lot of topics way better and you actually wanted to talk about it.
I couldn’t agree more with this analysis! Cams story was so heartbreaking for me as a young teen and comparing it to 13 reasons why while also an okay show it just didn’t get to me as much as Cams did.
i always cry when watching cam's episodes :'( it's still so heartbreaking to this day.
not to mention the degrassi next class suicide storyline with maya herself. cam's suicide continued to affect her for years after but she doesn't blame herself / cam never put the blame on her which is a lot more than 13RW can say.
Yes and so many trash NC and I think Maya's storyline was done so well. When you think of everything she has been through since Cam.
As a fan of the original Degrassi Jr High/ Degrassi High I am in love with the fact that Principal Simpson witnessed the aftermath of a fellow classmate taking his own life and was able to use that to bond with Eli who found Cam. Elite connection ❤
Degrassi was always ahead of its time. One of the many reasons why I love it and will rewatch it. It shaped me into who I am today. It also brought a lot of topics up that I didn’t know too much about because I was so young but made me so opened minded of people. A super side note but I fell in love with cam too. I remember crying.
Completely agree with you 100%
Something that struck me about Degrassi's storyline (and this is something I think only one would pick up if they'd watched OG Degrassi) was that Simpson is consoling the students, especially Eli and Maya (please correct me if I'm wrong, I've watched only bits and pieces); Simpson had found Claude (character from OG Degrassi) after he'd killed himself in the boys bathroom, and I thought it was fitting (even if not intended) that Simpson knew what Eli was goin through, had seen how Raditch has handled the situation with Claude's death, and I'm sure wanted to make sure that all of Degrassi had been not only taken care of, but made sure that they had the proper resources
I remember really liking that detail. It felt very fitting to have Simpson comforting everyone.
I hate to think what would have happened if he didn’t. Maya and cam were such a cute couple and there was sweet innocent lover between them vs the confusing love triangle with zig and miles. Also the effect of his suicide is so long lasting the degrassi next class it’s obvious dying Maya’s attempt that even years after when everything seemed to have passed, it still had some kind of effect. I just hate how they killed him off because they were so happy that night and then he was just gone. I felt like it wasn’t a good enough goodbye to someone who meant so much to the season
but it shows how realistic it is. sometimes you have highs and sometimes you have lows. when you have your lows it feels like you aren't even you anymore and its hard to pull yourself back up
This is actually so sad because they wanted to keep cam and they Debated it so badly because of how much he brought to the show and how he could’ve been such a lead male and they actually wanted to carry out another mental illness storyline but they already had Eli and Craig but overall they chose to kill him off which makes me so sad! They actually were going to make Maya and Him end up together overall but they knew what they had to do with his character.
I remember knowing Cam committed suicide before I watched his arc and it didn't stop me from absolutely falling in love with him. It was so heartbreaking.
Agreed. 100%. I also thought that they did Maya's suicide attempt in the Next Class well. Overall I didn't like the Next Class, but her character and story line were great. They had so many risk factors in there, like how she had lost someone (Cam) to suicide, how she went through trauma (the bus crash), and how she had a family history of mental illness (Katie's ED and drug addiction). They also showed her seeing a therapist and attempting to get help.
Proud to be Canadian!! Degrassi has been one of the most popular shows since the 80s
🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🤍
Degrassi itself has some faults, but it’s a great series of shows in general. I had to bail around season 9 or 10 of degrassi. It just got less interesting to me and grounded.
As someone who’s watched all the seasons I’d like to recommend you seasons 12-13. They are actually pretty decent and grounded and gave me the same vibes as the original seasons did. After those two it gets bad again but you should definitely check them out.
@@kateohara7789 yes I like the older seasons and especially when they brought Eli 😍😍 around but yes I absolutely love season 12 and 13 and 14
Yeah, it definitely got worse when it switched into Degrassi (instead of Degrassi: TNG) but I feel like they did the Next Class so dirty :/
I think the difference is that Degrassi was a teen show that had a suicidal character. Meanwhile, 13 reasons why was a show based around one's suicide. But I agree, it's so graphic and unnecessary. When I saw the unedited version, I literally had a panic attack and couldn't sleep that night.
the graphic part is what stopped me from wanting to commit mainly because of what my parents would see.
Degrassi walked so shows like these could run
I love this! Thank you so much. I have been looking around for another take on Campbells suicide storyline, just to see how other people felt about it and how it was received. This was a really well thought-out video.
Thank you so much!
Also, unlike most teen dramas, Degrassi producers casts teenagers to play teenagers, they do stories that teenagers can actually relate to
I remember rewatching season 12 over and over and over again because i was super suicidal and not in control of my emotions at the time so it gave me some weird sad comfort but also reminding me that i should stay here. I will forever love Cam. I do wish they would’ve at least had him for one whole season until the next one so we could’ve learned even more about him but regardless with the small amount (in my opinion) of screen time he had he was able to squeeze himself easily into my top favorite characters on degrassi.
I literally did the same last year. Like just watching Cam focused episodes when it all felt like too much. I couldn't empathize with my self, but seeing how everyone around suffered when he left reminded not to do it.
My sister was 14 at the time, and later she told me she got help specifically after watching that arc
I’ll never understand how amazing season 12 of degrassi is and then season 13 and 14 were horrible.
degrassi is the best high school show of all time. eli’s character made me feel so seen as a bipolar teen, it still does.
degrassi actually had a psychologist on set advising on cams storyline and they said yup showing cam actually committing suicide or saying how he did it was not a good idea cams storyline was honestly done very well
I’ve been wanting to read the book! But this video showed up in my feed and I didn’t even know I needed this in my life. But I agree. Degrassi handled SO MANY THINGS SO MUCH BETTER.
you can't even compare these shows at all, degrassi was made to help teens and 13 reasons why was made for drama
i struggle with suicidal thoughts and personally 13 reasons why was what helped me realize how many people would actually care and what I would leave behind
Exactly
that's great and valid. However these are still graphic depictions for a YA demographic.
I'm so glad to hear someone else say that it didn't need to continue after season one. I felt like it was done after season one
Degrassi was the best show I’ve ever watched! It helped me a lot and showed things that happen to teens in real life like suicide (like Cam’s suicide attempt and Maya’s suicide attempt, abuse (like Alli was abused by Leo), or gun violence (when Jimmy was shot)
I would of liked to see more of a comparison to how rape was portayed e.g darcy and paige v Jessica and hannah
13 reasons why annoyed me so much. They really romanticized suicide. I dont know how else to explain it. Especially in season 2 when Clay kept having visions of her as if it was possible to still be around. It's not. When you kill yourself, you're dead. You don't get to tell your loved ones you love them anymore.
I haven't watched 13 RW since the first season. Never finished the series and never plan to
Bryce gets murdered
It’s a boring show. Overhyped for nothing
I absolutely understand the discourse around Hannah's suicide scene. For me, it was important because it showed how agonizing, lonely, and flat out graphic suicide is. And how a parent's true pain when they find their child. I lost someone to suicide in high school whose parents found him. I have also struggled with suicidal thoughts/ideation for most of my life. I do think however, Netflix did suicide a disservice in the aftermath. They didn't do right by Hannah's character and made it more about Clay. I also think they should've had a warning before the episode and before the scene if they were going to put it out there. Degrassi handled Cam's suicide well too, but again, made it about Maya. Not Cam that much or his family who was far away. Then they put Maya and Zig together. Anyway, no one is going to do all of the right things. I appreciate both shows.
Your not supposed to show it pbp lol 😂
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!!
It is amazing to me how 13 Reasons Why can have a whole freaking show about said suicide and fumble the ball whereas Degrassi always has multiple character plots in each episode and nailed Cam's suicide storyline throughout his time of the show.
As someone who has made multiple suicide attempts and deals with anxiety, depression & PTSD, Cam's story is MUCH more impactful. It's the scattering of little things that you wouldn't notice unless you were in Cam's shoes
1) Rage is a common side effect of depression (beating up Zig, kicking the desk in the room Alli's in, etc)
2) Him admitting to Maya and Alli that he's sad which is a huge step but not getting the response/answer you need
3) Trying to 'solve' your sadness by getting rid of what you think is making you sad (drinking milk to stop hockey, breaking arm, etc) but then having the harsh reality that it's not the things around you; it is YOU
4) Being tearful is also a common side effect of anxiety and depression (Cam in the girls bathroom, locker room, etc)
I could go on and on, but bravo to Degrassi and a big fart noise to 13 Reasons Why!
Couldn’t have explained it any better 👏🏼
I love Degrassi, I watched it at a young age and taught me so much and I loved it because I could relate to the characters it will forever be one of my favorite show's
Brilliant video. Cam's storyline was really well thought through accompanied by amazing acting. Dallas' reaction was oscar worthy.
When i first watched Degrassi i would read the comments of each episode and got spoilers that Cam would die. When I watched the actual episode when Cam died it hit me extremely hard. I knew it was going to happen but actually seeing that cam do it and what it did to others was extremely hard for me. I was twelve when i watched it and although it taught me a lot about suicide, it was very heartbreaking for me. Cam’s death was unexpected and realistic and that’s what made it so sad.
When my friend committed suicide, I was so angry at her. I hated her for a while cause I was in pain and felt guilty cause I thought I could've done more and it was easier to be angry.
So I do the depiction of Maya after Cam died cause it's very relatable.
It is such a relief to hear someone else mention that they had to look away during Hannah's suicide scene. I am a lover of horror movies and gore doesn't turn my stomach. Yet when I saw the scene in question (by accident while watching a compilation scene on RUclips), it made me physically ill. For months after seeing it, I would have nightmares about it and I avoided watching videos on RUclips out of fear that I would see it again. It was definitely way too much and after finding out that Hannah uses a different method in the book, it made me wonder if the writers and creators weren't just going for shock factor.
love analysis videos like these
thank you :-)
I didn't mind 13 Reasons Why but it didn't get to me as much as Cam's storyline did, especially how it affected Maya and her suicide attempt. Degrassi did an amazing job, I respect the hell out of Dylan Everett and Olivia for their portrayal. Katherine was amazing, but the writers could have done a better job.
this was an amazing video, glad to see someone who loves degrassi as much as a i did, i loved cam so much as a character
13 Reasons Why was a good book at the time, but at the time I read it, Go Ask Alice was the closest in genre that I had access to at my school. Now, there are much better options for kids in school to read about this type of subject matter.
I am sorry, as someone who had these thoughts, suicide is not impulsive. It took me a long time to make the decision I made. It thought of how others might be affected if I did it. I am fine now, so this is not a sad story.
I could see how she could have planned this out and thought if she really wanted to do this action for a long time, but her last event triggered it.
So I disagree with suicide being impulsive, but it varies depending on the person who chooses it.
This is def important bc there is no one size fits all when it comes to something like this. Glad to hear you're doing better now.
@@dannie9033 thank you.
I’m going to have to agree with you. It’s not the same for everyone.
The same was for me. That's the one aspect I despise that people pick on 13 reason why for. I'm not a fan of the show but for many others to claim that every suicidal person act the same. Is truly ridiculous. Sometime they are signs and scarily enough they are people who hide those signs very well.
Degrassi first depicted Suicide in it’s previous incarnation “Degrassi High” back in 1991.
I remember when it came out and my friends all watched it while I avoided it on purpose after being a survivor of an attempt by not planing it through enough and failing. I watched it with a friend later on after she offered me comfort and according to her Hannas su/cide made be shiver.
Long story short I hated how suicide was presented and how it almost seemed like it was shown to be this act that clears you off your sins and passes it on to others even not to mention all 13 offenses being treated on the same level.
The presentation of suicide was just sick
There's an amazing video by Hello Future Me that talks about not only how dangerous it is to present Hannah as getting revenge on the people who wronged her after her suicide, but also talks about the points that suicide prevention groups made to the writers of 13 Reasons Why when they were advising them about the suicide scene. It seems like the writers were more focused on exploitation and sensationalism rather than the fact that some teens might see the scene and try to copy it, which judging by the spike in teen suicides after the show aired was something they should have been more concerned about. That's why Degrassi is the superior show. It covers a serious topic like depression and suicide, but it doesn't show the method Cam used. With Degrassi, they also held a live discussion after the episode aired to give resources and talk through what happened which I think was really amazing of them.
I remember accidentally seeing the scene of Hannah's suicide in a compilation video on RUclips and I will never forget how sick it made me feel to the point where I nearly threw up. For months after seeing it, I was afraid to watch videos on RUclips because I was terrified I would see it again. I would have nightmares about the scene, from just seeing the scene in my dreams to Hannah being replaced with my cousins or my mom or anyone else I loved. It really affected me in a way that even the worst of the horror movies I've watched never has.
I really like the repercussions with Maya about Cams death, the anxiety and depression and even the situation with Miles it makes perfect sense i think Degrassi did all this in the best way possible
Degrassi is just on another level with realism
Goldi from Degrassi next class said “one suicide can lead to another” and 13RW led to a spike in suicides pretty much predicting the affect the show would have on teens.
Degrassi ran so 13 Reasons Why could trip
Degrassi: The Next Next Generation coming 2025.
During the early 90s, Degrassi High also had a suicide episode. It was made to raise awareness for suicide much like a lot of the other episodes which raised awareness for things such as AIDS. However, this episode made a lot of the same mistakes that 13 Reasons Why did. In the same vain though it did have a lot of the same elements as Cams storyline. Degrassi: The Next Generation/Degrassi calls back to this episode when they discuss the effects that Cams suicide had on Eli as Snake/Principal Simson had gone through that exact same thing in Degrassi Highs suicide episode. I don’t have much more to say on the topic but I thought I should share my knowledge about Degrassis history of suicide episodes.
I think the suicide depiction was a necessary shock value. Suicide is not pretty, it’s not glamorous it’s not fun. It’s finite, it’s the end. I think Romeo and Juliet did more damage to the depictions of suicide than 13RW. I do not believe showing suicide in that graphic a detail, would encourage suicide in the same way that a graphic murder would encourage murder for that matter. However, I do believe the show DID do a great job of explaining the hopelessness that one may feel in a system where people are apathy to problems that teenagers are going through. We’re supposed to have visceral reaction to her suicide, because she was failed, by everyone she sought help from.
I am so glad that I gave up on 13 Reasons Why after like 6 episodes, because as someone who has struggled with depression/suicidal thoughts for a decade, if I had seen that graphic suicide scene with no warning it would have seriously fucked me up
I hated this show because they glamorized suicide and mental health. I understand bringing awareness but that was not their agenda. The show wanted to shock and lure in sad edgy kids (vampire diaries types) but little did they know, these kids are damaged and just might plan a suicide revenge plot.. Letter and all.
Cams story helped me to realize I had depression, i was so sad when he passed away
I wholeheartedly agree that Netflix was after shock value and I agree that Hannah's scene was GRAPHIC (I'm not squeamish but that got to me as well) but there is one detail that I think you're a little off on. After Hannah makes the first 12 tapes she feels better and changes her mind saying she's going to give life one more chance then tried to seek help from the guidance counselor about her assault, it's only after the counselor basically victim blames her that she changes her mind and goes home and does the deed. Just saying, to me at least, it seemed like the incident with the counselor was the catalyst similar to things going well for cam and then zig making him snap. I hope I'm making sense, I did enjoy your video amd agree with your points otherwise, that's just my two cents on it.
I love this video essay, I love your pacing in speaking, I love your jokes and references, I love your ethos, I'm obsessed
Can you imagine if Hannah showed signs of severe depression? Like not leaving bed or showering and not leaving bed
When you said Degrassi was your favorite I was like "I can relate" because it used to be my favorite show. Then when you said it wasn't up there with Westworld I was like "omg!!!" because that IS my favorite show. Lol
i feel like after i rewatched the show from the first time i did, like andrea said, other than bryce and justins second tape (which also included bryce so imma just say bryce overall) the rest of the reasons were just something like 'cry a few days, now im okay'. Losing friends, rumors spreading its all a phase, and sure as a teen it feels like such an impact but other than the rape nothing else should have been a reason. i, personally am a suicidal individual (well ex idek how to explain but i had attempted and almost went into the light but got saved) and it was due to the fact that a really close friend who was my rock, passed away so suddenly that it really destroyed me and i was like 15 at the time. So when i rewatched the show, sorry to say so, but hannahs other reasons were kinda stupid to me, because if they werent then, i should think since education started the whole human population should have killed themselves. I too degrassi is an all time favourite and Cams story line really made sense, the burden of having no one to talk and no one who is around to understand and pretending to be happy for everyone else is what i felt. if anything Hannah could have a lil big scream meltdown and moved on in life and again for eternity i say, she is the reason for the fuck up Clay is in season 4, she mentally destroyed him with anxiety thinking he was a reason and how the other characters changed forever just because she was petty.
The 80's Degrassi they had a suicide arch but it was not handled well I think that's why they recreated one in the later season. Degrassi sometimes showed a very extreme version of mental health while 13 reasons why felt like it was exploiting it .
Degrassi also puts in the effort to make a character more then just a label You feel for the character
13 Reasons is a short release format and based on a book so they had to follow the basic plot but it also glorified what happened
I think it was important and good that 13rw showed the suicide scene so raw and long, it made sure that it’s not a romanticised version where we don’t see how hurtful it is and how scary, and the person is just gone without us seeing that.
I think that shows who don’t show that are way more dangerous in the sense that young people will romanticise the suicide.
As someone who has been struggling with depression for the past 10 years (and who is now, personally, completely open and comfortable talking and joking about it) I just wanna say that I have had complete strangers call me "hannah baker" when they see my arms. I hit them back with the "that was my 13th reason". So I guess I got that new joke out of the show, otherwise it's literally a boring and annoying show that has a good soundtrack.
edit: also I was luck to be out of middle/high school when it came out or I know my reaction to the show would have not been a good one. It's easy to laugh at it as an adult but the effect it had on younger people is not to be taken lightly.
13 reasons why just made Hannah so unlikable. It was fucked up. It was a horrible story that was only told for shock value. Vs. degrassi (all gens) shows a depiction of different teens from different walks of life at different times in way that pre-teens and teen would be able to understand and possibly seek help before this happened to them.
great video although to me at least the degrassi suicide that feels most similar to hannahs at least in my opinion is claudes back in degrassi high. both suicides come off as revenge suicide or suicides with the intent to hurt the most people ie. hannahs tapes and claude doing it at school and sending caitlyn roses and a note saying he forgives her which comes off as guilt trippy
Stopped watching 13 reasons like 5 episodes in. But currently bingeing Degrassi on RUclips and it's just overall better at representing everything
Cam’s death was well executed. I didn’t really grow attached to his character, but I still felt sad thru the other characters reactions esp Dallas and maya. I’m glad they didn’t show it, but I’ve always been a little curious on the method due to its effect on Eli. His reasoning behind death was so sad. He simply wanted to go home and hockey just wasn’t a passion but he felt pressured to do it. Aside from his obvious mental health issues, it felt like that was his only “out” because he felt he had to live up to all these expectations people were holding him to, “the star hockey player”, “the perfect boyfriend”, etc. it seemed to be too much for him but no one listened.
I liked the first 2 seasons of 13RW. However I don’t think we needed the visual we got. The sound of her cutting her wrists was just awful. I literally cringed from that. The fact that we had to even see her mother finding her was also a bit much. I hated the concept of sending tapes to people, that messed up a lot of those people for a while because of the guilt they had to feel when they really didn’t do anything to her (except for Bryce). It was heartless of her. I think the whole “welcome to your tape” thing became more of a meme than a thing to take seriously. It was just ridiculous. Don’t get me wrong, I loved the show, but i think it was executed in a way that wasn’t the best.
Hello Future Me has a video where he talks about mental illness in fiction and he talks about 13 Reasons Why and how Hannah is shown sending the tapes as revenge and being in complete control of the situation is a dangerous message to send to teenagers, especially when some teenagers out there may be depressed and suicidal. He also talks about the suicide prevention groups that spoke to the writers of 13 Reasons Why and how they basically ignored the advice they were given when it came to Hannah's suicide scene. It's an amazing video that I can't recommend enough.
I will never understand why they chose to be so graphic with Hannah's suicide scene, especially since they changed the method from how she does it in the book. I remember watching the scene by accident since I was watching a compilation video on RUclips and I have never been so deeply affected by something before or since. It literally made me so sick to my stomach, I thought I was going to throw up. For months after I saw it, I was afraid to watch videos on RUclips in case I saw it again and I had horrible nightmares about it, from seeing the scene again to dreaming that it was my cousins or my mother or other people I loved in Hannah's place. It affected me in ways that even the worst horror movies I've watched never has.
Degrassi also had a great s*icide storyline in degrassi high where a character is rejected by his ex gf and he shows some signs but it wasn't obvious or over a long period of time. It was like he acted out and the next day shot himself in the bathroom. I think that's also an interesting storyline
Yeah I didn’t include any degrassi junior high, high, or next class cause I feel less confident talking about them about those since I’ve only seen each once a long time ago - but I definitely need to rewatch them!
It helps that Degrassi has been established since 1980
Not me sitting here crying over Cam's death. This was a great video. :) I also stopped watching 13 Reasons Why after the first season. It was clear that the story seemed more focused on shock value than properly telling the narrative. I love Degrassi. I'm in the midst of rewatching it now. It truly was ahead of its time and is a real treasure.
The first two seasons of “13 reasons why” , were great because it showed not the after affects of suicides but it also showed the many perspectives of the people who hurt Hannah . However, seasons 3 & 4 were completely trash !! . They tried to make it a murder mystery and make a evil character ( Bryce walker) seem forgivable.
I agree! They should have ended the show way sooner. I thought they were pushing it with a season 2 imo. It could have been a great limited series
The fact is seeing Hannah like that is shocking, but it forces us to see how the things we can do can affect someone.
In all 13 tapes Hannah talks about how she was affected by the people around her.
The reality is that these things do happen and 13 reasons forces us to see what this type of behavior causes.
Hannah Baker was not evil but what she did was selfish and her actions showed the people she reached out to what their actions can cause.
That way they might change and not do that to another person. It's harsh but it's real. I watched all of it and it changed me
I have to agree with this take. I disagree with the portion on bullying a bit (I should say I prefer the term peer abuse because "bullying" has connotations that minimize the trauma it causes, and if it came from a partner or parent rather than a peer, it would in fact be called abuse. Bullying IS abuse) in that it wasn't truly a factor in the suicide. Mental illness does play a huge role in suicides, that is fact, but suicide is also common with disorders that come from abuse and other mental injuries like PTSD. I have no doubt whatsoever that Hannah was suffering from PTSD or even CPTSD. Furthermore, PTSD lights the fuse for mental I'll was.
I do want to state, Degrassi High (I think, back in the early 1990’s), had a suicide of a guy name Claud and it wasn’t far off from this. Actually, the creators got the actors to talk out their opinions on any fact on the show and formed a story around said issue. So I assume, since the creators of the show still worked on Degrassi until 2017, they had already knew a good way to explain it.
Degrassi can be a silly, melodramatic soap, but it’s not anywhere bad and uneducated like 13 Reasons Why, Riverdale, and all these other silly shows with not substance and very disturbing ideas.
Like Riverdale and having the only gay character wanting to start a tickle fetish website business (which is illegal for a kid to do, since it is “adult content”, even if they have clothes on). These shows need common sense.
Came here to say this!!
I remember reading 13 Reasons Why in Health class in high school.
I love degrassi and every time I watch that episode I cry 😭😭 it’s so sad especially every episode leading up to it
Yes!! Such great acting
I can never forget that season two scene with Tyler. It literally haunts me to this day. I really had a hard time finishing the series after that.
After that episode I stopped.
I watch 13 reasons why at the age of 19 and I got into such a deep depression after watching it. I can't imagine the younger teens watching the show and having the same effects as it had on me.
I got emotional at parts but i was never depressed ig it depends on personal emotions and stuff
I don't think a T.V show should affect anyone that much that they become depressed. You should always be watching things with an element of detachment so it doesn't infringe on your reality. Perhaps it's your own personal emotions that are unstable ??
@@tessy28 perhaps I had a close friend that committed Suicide in my early teen years. I'm sure it flared up past emotions.
i know that i get very attached to television shows, it's just how i watch TV unfortunately. thankfully, 13RW did not affect me that much, but there have definitely been other shows that have really put me in a mood. that's why it's so important for shows to consider these things, people can definitely be going through their own personal thing.
I cant remember that much about 13rw because it’s been so long but I think Alex’s mental health story was actually depicted better than Hannah’s. Obviously, there were still a lot of flaws but I remember there was more of a buildup and more dialogue surrounding it.
i agree, alex's was depicted better but i feel like the character surrounding him didnt get effected as much as hanna's death
I think 13RW gave a different perspective to reactions to the suicide and death of a peer. I saw that some of her peers that contributed to her decision tried to avoid accountability for their actions and role they played in a complicated person’s life in protection of their own selves. These people were thinking about their reputations, secrets, futures, etc. I agree it can be critiqued, but it was an interesting take nonetheless. Cam’s storyline was the best I’ve ever seen but 13RW tried to run after Degrassi crawled.