Hey! If you're someone dealing with any of the things outlined in this show, don't be afraid to reach out for help. Here's a list of various emergency hotlines in different countries and cities, your life is worth living - bit.ly/3fmRnL3
Yes so true i know people and it’s so hard when your going through troubles and I wrote a poem/song for my friends and there trouble I’d love to share if someone asks but I won’t sing it lol
I have one question How do you feel about making Alex all of a sudden gay? Even though the romance between him and Charlie was kinda cute it felt so force like the producers wanted a story of a "Boy discovers he is gay" or something like that. But I don't like it in generell his transformation because it doesn't fit his character. In the first 3 seasons he was in love with Jessica and now......he is just into boys..... I also think that they did it because of the acceptence of the LGBTQ+ Community but why didn't they just used the already existing gay characters like Toni or Courtney and Ryan. I hope you still know who the last two were because they appear for like 10minutes on the last episode. Another reason could be that they have to make him gay so Winston falls in love with him and he shuts up in the end because of the relationship with Alex.....maybe? But it would support my point that Alex's coming out is more forced than genuine. Well overall I wasn't really mpressed by Alex's story in season 4. I was like "What was the reason?!" What is your opinion?
How did he climb out of that hole? Pulls a cop's gun and waves it around. Shouts he has a gun in a POLICE STATION. Blows up a car.... ON CAMERA. Blood drenched with a shiv. It's ok. We're fine. No consequences. I could go on for days.
So I haven't watched the show but due to other youtubers like YMS and IHE I have been able to get what has been going on. After seeing the videos about the season 3 murder cover-up I kept telling myself jokingly I bet they find a way to get them off for leading to two homicides. Now you tell me it wasn't a joke? The characters getting away with this is actually insulting and the writers need to be called out every chance they get. Fuck this show.
I'm pissed, I feel like my intelligence has been insulted. Hallucinating isn't normal, I'm annoyed they just gloss over it like clay isn't having serious mental breakdowns.
that’s EXACTLY what i said as i was watching this!! why is the show acting like it isn’t a big deal to have huge lapses in memory and hallucinations so fucking vivid it blurs with reality seamlessly? i can’t believe how much of a joke it is.
They can't even portray it right. Visual is Supper rare. Audio, common. And he dose not have schizophrenia. He acts to normal. It is a disorder of thoughts being in the wrong order. They can't even get basic mental illness right. And schizophrenia that is very acute is rare. ( I have ptsd since age 2. But have friends who do have schizophrenia. That is being managed. Ie asimptimatic. Memory loss is rare as well. From someone who has lived 30 years with ptsd.
@@AmandaTheJedi if he was just imagining people in a creative way (which is something I actually do) he wouldn't have conversations like "are you real? Are you corporeal? Can I touch you?" I know my imagined people with imagined interactions are just that. Imagined. 🤦🏻♀️
They shot themselves in the foot by trying to bring up 'police brutality' and 'racial profiling/injustice', all while the main plot surrounding this season is shielding Alex, a white kid who's father is a cop, from getting convicted with murder because 'he deserves a future'. 10/10 writing.
Yes! The characters talk about how Alex is so nice, blah blah blah.. When was Alex the one holding up the group? He literally shows no emotion towards being a murderer. You'd think Alex would be the one hallucinating and acting skiddish. Also wtf him trying to give a speech at Justin's funeral?? He literally said "I don't care about Justin, but Charlie does so I showed up." I feel like there was a ton of white privilege going on. All the white kids with good families got away with everything. What kind of message is that? Also, why was Anie so quiet this season? I felt like she was pushed to the side.
@@MissAimeePond right? Like I don't know in 1st season Alex wasn't the nicest but he was at least interesting character. From season 2 they wrote him as boring character. And when he killed Bryce I thought he would at least feel bad and even more after Monty death. But nope, he is obviously good person after all so he deserve minimum two love interest during one season and going to collage of course.
Season 1: Why did Hannah Baker commit suicide? Season 2: Hannah's parents' trial against the school, Hannah is still important Season 3: Who killed Bryce Walker: Riverdale 2.0, Ani knows everyone's business Season 4: A School Shooting, minors hiring prostitutes, Aids diagnosis: WHAT EVEN IS THIS SHOW TRYING TO BE ANYMORE?! 😬🤨
Season 10: Bryce returns from the dead and raises an army of Zombie rapists Season 23: Clay kills Satan to get Hannah’s soul back Season 45: Hannah ascends to a higher form ala Madoka Magica
@@gregjayonnaise8314 season 100: Hannah grows ill, the world breaks apart, Clay must set out on a quest with his luck dragon to find a cure for her, when it turns out the reader of the book must simply give Hannah a new name
as someone who's most definitely on the spectrum that made me go "BULLSHIT" the hardest. As someone stuck with being an introvert yet also wanting to have friends to hang with, i sometimes roleplay with myself, but I'm still clearly aware it's not real and just go back to reality when I have important shit to do. This is full-on mental issues. I'm starting to think that head wound Clay got in Season 1 was more than just bruising.
@@TheBonkleFox I also imagine I talk to people and I know it's wrong. For Clay, it's the trauma. He sees Justin, Bryce, Monty and Hannah because for some reasons he can't let them go.
It really sounds like Clay had schizoaffective disorder and I'm so mad it wasn't explored more in a show about mental illness, cause it could've really shown this in a rare positive light since psychotics are so often the faces of villains
Clay literally set the principals car on fire, drove drunk, destroyed school property, grabbed an officers gun and waved it around, said he had a gun at a police station and still didn’t get in trouble. He should be locked up. I’m annoyed 🤦🏻♀️
Sounds like he needs serious therapy. I was very close to snapping like that and therapy + meds seriously saved me. It’s true that not everyone gets/can get help but it’s portrayed very badly from what I can see
Yeah. It went from a show about why a girl killed herself to attempted school shootings, sodomy with a mop, tried to portray an unrepentant rapist as a misunderstood good guy just to serve the badly done murder mystery plot of the 3rd season,untreated mental illnesses, misguided parents trying to blame a whole school for what one student in it did and so on.
There was a boy at my high school who committed suicide in a grandiose sort of way. (School went on lockdown because there was a suspicion he might shoot up the school). I didn’t know him at all because I was new to the school. He was depressed, had a bad home life, and was being bullied. But the kids that bullied him were laughing about the drama the NEXT DAY. And the school moved on from the incident very quickly. My point is that 13 Reasons Why is being so unrealistic, while claiming to “bring awareness” to an issue.
A girl at my school committed suicide and I heard people say awful things about her during her death announcement, like "good riddance" and "one less freak"...
I think 13RY started off the same way. No one was very affected by Hannah's death (except Clay of course) till the tapes came out. They even show random teens just clicking pictures with the area dedicated to Hannah and then just move on quickly.
Senga Rest assured this is pretty common everywhere.Most people, esp teens are not empathic or sympathetic. Some do grow and change, some never do. That's life.
I just can't forgive Justin's death. I can't. The only character who really tried and deserved to raise above everything horrible he experienced in his life dies a horrible and painful death while the others deserve to graduate and be happy?? I can't forgive that.
Clay in episode 6: "How dare you make us think someone was threatening us with a gun in the school when there really was no threat! You gave lot of people trauma with a threat that wasn't real!" Clay in episode 10: "Hello police station full of innocent people. I'm dangerous and I have a gun."
you missed the point, he did it so some one would notice him , if he was really trying to hurt ppl or be the shooter he wouldn’t go to the fckin police station.
@@throwsummo the police didn't want to hurt anyone either but they still put the mental health of the kids in the school second to accomplish their goal.
@@throwsummo That still doesn’t excuse the fact that it is hypocritical beyond any reason of doubt for Clay to say such a thing, and its just one of many examples of the show’s bad writing.
What pissed me off most about the car accident in season 4 is Jeff DIED in a car crash for drunk driving in Season 1. Maybe they couldn’t get the actor back or just forgot, but if Clay’s seeing dead people it would have been nice to see Jeff around there. His death really left Clay in a rough spot for awhile, and now he’s doing the exact same thing and doesn’t give a crap 😤
except he wasn't drunk driving. But also season 1 was so long time ago, i totally forgot about his character. When Clay was giving his speech, he said three people he loved didn't survive high school, and I was like "who's the third???"
I never watched Degrassi, but once when I was in middle school, I read a fanfic script thing somewhere on the internet of Freddy Kreuger killing and stalking the main cast of Degrassi. That was certainly fun to read while supposed to be working :P
So what conversation are they trying to start by having all of their characters avoid therapy like the plague and completely defining them by their copious amounts of severe and unresolved trauma 🤨🤨 I mean, can anyone even name AT LEAST two traits or story arcs Jessica has other than being a victim of her abuser? Or Justin being addicted to drugs?
Maybe the fact that teens go through fucked up shit all the time but because they feel alone they never seek out help. Most of the time in 13 reasons why the characters who were friends never even shared the fact that they were dealing with fucked up shit because thwy also felt like they had to be strong. Which is a very real fact for being in high school.
Totally agree with the Jessica thing. She is literally just 'I'm a sexual assault survivor'. And that's it. Justin...I feel like we get a little more growth from him outside of drug use, but that's probably mostly because he didn't have drug issues in season one, and he also had the whole adoption thing. Being in the main character's bedroom kinda forces you to have more screen time/ character development.
Hannah's mom was Addison Montgomery in Grey's anatomy, including Clay Jenson who played a patient and then there's Justin's doctor in season 4 who played Ellis Grey in Grey's anatomy
I'm so incredibly mad at Justin's death/the AIDS plot bc it ruined Justin's storyarch COMPLETELY... they could've done an amazing "it gets better" and "recovery isn't linear but worth it" story with him struggling, but graduating and going of to college. HIV/AIDS feels like just another issue they wanted to tackle (and did that horribly). They should've left it out completely or have him be tested positive for HIV, but getting adequate treatment AND MAKING IT OUT ALIVE!!!! They really ruined all the character and plot development around Justin smh
They really could have shown how HIV/AIDS is no longer a death sentence, and you can still recover. It's very stigmatizing, especially for gay men who tend to be who people associate with HIV/AIDS.
“Tackling an issue” just means showing it on screen for these people. They’re just checking boxes; they don’t give a damn about the things real teens have to go through.
They probably living in utopia whee being gay is super normal, like no one actually struggled with their sexuality at all and alwuas able to find hook up buddies
Regarding school shooter drills in the USA: in my junior year, we had a drill. We all knew it was a drill. We knew we were supposed to be having a drill that day or that week, we just weren't sure when it was going to happen. So I'm in study hall and they come over the PA and say "lockdown" so the teacher turns off the lights, we put our backpacks on our desks (never understood why, feel like that's just screaming 'hey there are def kids in here' but okay), and we all go to the back of the classroom and sit down behind the lab tables (my study hall was in the bio room). Everything is proceeding normally. After about 5 minutes, someone came around and jiggled the door handle to make sure it was locked, and we were just chilling, waiting for them to say "all clear". These things, at least in my school, usually lasted like 10, 15 minutes tops, so we just wait it out. Some kids are still doing work in the dark. 10 minutes go by. 15. 25. The bell rings, but no all-clear was given, so we stay put. Now we're starting to freak out a little bit. We haven't heard anything outside, no shouting, no screaming, but these things just DO NOT take that long. Some of the other kids had their phones and were texting friends in other classes, and they weren't moving either. That's the thing that was drilled into us from like 2nd grade: no matter what, do NOT move until the all-clear is given, even if you think it's a drill. Warning bell (one minute to get to class) for the next class rings. Then the final bell. Still nothing. We're all actually scared, now. I'm regretting leaving my phone in my bag because even though I'm still clinging to the "it's a drill" idea, I just want to text my parents. Just in case. Literally like 35-40 minutes after they sent us into lockdown, they give the all clear and confirm it was a drill. They just forgot (YES. FUCKING FORGOT.) to give the all-clear and didn't notice anything was wrong until they realized no one had walked by during the passing period. I'm glad it was nothing, obvs, but THEY FUCKING FORGOT?!?!?!?! So yeah. That's my lockdown story. We also took a test during a lockdown drill once because the teacher didn't get the memo that it was happening and didn't want to reschedule. We all huddled in the back and he was just like "stay quiet and don't cheat" lol
Honestly good on you tho. It's absolutely amazing that absolutely none of you tried anything and ignored the drill without the "all clear". We don't deal with school shooter at all in my country and that is seriously impressive that you all stay put.
@Karleigh Bennett I'm glad I haven't heard of any active school shootings but I've heard of them being caught beforehand. Can't remember how many months ago a kid went to school with a gun and it was found in his locker. It was in my city in Canada so unfortunately the potential is definitely there.
The thought that drills for school shootings exist is wild to me. Like that there is the need to do it and that it's happening quite often if you hear the media. Gun laws in America are just crazy. I still don't get why some people in my country want loose laws. I can't remember one school shooting in all of the 20 years that I'm alive. But I can remember at least 4 in the last 2 years in the US. These are statistics that should let people think what's wrong with loose gun laws... We only had a "drill" at a school party because one of our clumsy teachers ACCIDENTLY touched the button. That was a day I can tell you. Everyone was a bit mad after that...
@Karleigh Bennett Well, I grew up in an extremely safe area. I think we only ever had 1 legit lockdown in my life, and it was because there was a robbery a town over and they hadn't caught the guy yet, and that wasn't even a FULL lockdown, we just had a couple extra cops around and all the outside doors were locked. We still had classes and everything. There was, however, a bomb threat in middle school, but it was nothing, just a kid playing a really not funny prank. I got extra time to finish my Spanish homework, though, so that was great.
Moon Girl if someone can legally own a gun I don’t see the problem with them owning whatever they want but if they shouldn’t own one they need to be stopped
13 Reasons Why could have been something really good and helpful but they just couldn't help being a typical teen drama and it became a wasted opportunity.
@@Xehanort10 In my opinion the only "pretentious" attitude being displayed is coming from the critics. This is a story. Based on a written work that was never meant to be a semi-PSA. Yes, the makers of the series went out of their way to "explain" the non-glorification of the subject matter. But that was because society "demanded" it. There have been countless other teen dramas that included the death of one of the main characters. This was not meant to be ground breaking. Just storytelling. Again, whether you think it is "good" storytelling is up to each individual. But most storytelling will collapse under the weight of the expectation to be some kind of "Manifesto" of teen angst.
@@donny1960 They did glorify suicide though. Instead of portraying it as a horrible, tragic thing Hannah felt like she had no choice but to do it was painted as her revenge on people she didn't like. The only person she should have talked about on the tapes was Bryce since he was the one who raped her. But she put people on tapes for trivial reasons like throwing away a poem she wrote. So the show couldn't explain the non glorification of it because they were glorifying it. The only people treating it like it was some crusade against suicide were Netflix. Everyone else saw it for the glorified teen drama show it was.
Did people read the book? It didn’t helped teens, I read this book in grade 8. It was just a story of a girl who commits suicide and created these tapes for the people who had affect her life in a certain way. Maybe awareness but it wasn’t that helpful
@@Xehanort10 I watched the show. Hanna's death was horrible to everyone IN the show. The only people taking "glory" from her death were in the audience. And most of us in the audience had a different take on it. So again, the issue is audience created. What was on the screen could and has been interpreted in many ways. But there are people out there that ONLY see this story as an issue. Not as storytelling. Many storytellers use the literary device of having characters interact with the dead.The Ancient Greeks and Shakespeare did it often. It's only in today's society that this device in automatically deemed "glorifying" that death. I disagree with that interpretation. It was tragic for all concerned.
Honestly, I saw people actually having AIDS and just not caring about it. I have actual friends that have sex without a condom and say "I don''t want to test because it's better if I don't know". Justin seems to have similar attitudes for himself, so...stupid but not impossible?
Because he has never been mentally stable and clearly had issues from day one. He had an unhealthy obsession and idolization of Hannah and was fixated on her and made it his job to fix her. He has had problems from day one.
I read the title “13 Reasons Why Season 4 Is Insane”, didn’t register that was the name of the show, and thought “13 reasons why season 4 of _what_ is insane?” I am the big dumb.
This is very relatable. I've spent good five minutes looking at the title and trying to figure it out. Felt real dum' after the first second of the video.
Haha :D I would totally make the same mistake but since season 4 came out I'm on constant alert. I've seen only episode 1 of the new season and it was hilariously bad so I expect the reviews to be equally entertaining :)
“I just want to be clear, I don’t actually see ghosts. I just imagine people and what I would say to them.” .... I think it might be better if you actually saw ghosts.
Meanwhile in Quarantine... "Can we throw a ghost frat party?" "No! No. No. Monty, you're not throwing a party of the damned." "But I saw this really cute 80s gay porno star ghost..." "No."
This show is literally written like a 13 year old's bad anime fanfiction-- in which every chapter something crazy happens just because the author thought it would be cool/shocking but none of these insane events have any lasting impact on the story and are usually forgotten by the next chapter.
13 reasons why kinda reminds me of a fanfic I read that had the main character getting into an argument, running out into traffic, and getting paralyzed, all in around 2 and a half sentences, and it just kinda continued at this breakneck speed and randomness for the rest of the story. Now, the difference between this fanfic and 13 reasons why is one of them was probably written by a child who doesn't have any actual experience in writing and the other was written by competent, seasoned writers and overseen by executives and producers who probably had to read this script many, many times over and could have changed the horrible story before it even got to the filming stage...
honestly i'd say nearly everything written by a 13 year old would be better by virtue based on the lone fact that _they are thirteen._ literal children most likely just starting to learn how to write stories. with the amount of adults involved in the making of the show, that's just unforgiveable.
You'd think a show that tries to bring awareness to mental health issues would show the positive effects of therapy but no I guess not. EDIT: Thanks for the comments (and thanks Amanda!!). My point is that while therapy or seeing a psychologist can still be imperfect, if this show actually wants to help people struggling with mental health issues it should glorify and encourage reaching out for help. This is not supposed to be a psychological thriller - I don't need a Shutter Island type twist if the goal is just to "start a discussion". They should be modeling healthy connections between victims and those who can help because reaching out WORKS. (To those dealing with mental health issues, I SWEAR there are people who will listen to you more effectively than shown here and are able to help.) Not as compelling of a story? Then, like Amanda says, don't make this about mental health.
I agree, it's ironic that the one time Hannah tries to tell the guidance counselor, Mr Porter, about her rape, she blames him for not running after her, even though she made it clear that she wanted to leave, and he wasn't skilled enough at his job to notice that she was suicidal. Still, he DID have a valid point in that if she refused to name her rapist, that it limited his capacity to help.
@@trinaq That is an extremely small valid point in the midst of a lot of serious incompetence. A counselor in that situation probably should pursue the kid, or at least schedule some *serious* follow-up. Children and teens dealing with trauma are not the ones who need to be making the final decisions about their own care. I have been that kid. Adults just respecting my desire to leave, or telling me all the ways they couldn't help instead of what they *could* do...that was a big part of how I ended up almost dying multiple times.
@@trinaq That is not how therapy works. No good therapist would ask a traumatized person to name their aggressor. You're supposed to be conduit and ping pong off of what the person is feeling and help them see the solutions and ways to be better that they already know in their heart but don't really have the strength or can't see how to follow through. If the person is not capable of naming their aggressor, it is for a reason and if they need to leave it as an unnamed entity/metaphor it's significant and should be respected. You should never forced that it can be hugely counter-productive. The patient will put their defensive mechanism, see you as their enemy might even associate you to the "neglect of their wishes" that their aggressor had against them and will not come to see you and talk to you again. Sure he's guidance counselor and he might have an indirect responsibility toward other students to report the rapist and avoid repeat incident but still in crisis situation he should focus only on the smaller picture and the individual in this situation. Like yeah that was weird of her to blame him for not pursuing her but she's a traumatized kid struggling with mental illness. He's a grown ass man with training. Regardless of knowing if she was suicidal or not, rape especially on teenagers is a traumatic experience that required a follow up. I'm pretty sure guidance counselor are required of follow ups on kids who get bullied. Being raped is way more traumatic. That's common sense to literally everyone even "not guidance counselor".
Apparently Dylan Minnette who plays Clay's been cast in Scream 5. So my headcanon now is that Clay finally completely lost his mind, killed the girlfriend he gets at the end of Season 4, moved to Woodsboro and became a Ghostface killer.
at inner city schools in lower class neighborhoods with lower-middle class kids of color it IS life or death (just saying) when he said that it resonated with me and my high school experience
I don't watch this show, so can someone tell me: does this school get media attention? Because IRL, Dateline, Netflix, etc. would be making documentaries about this high school full of rich kids murdering one another or killing themselves, not to mention rapes, assaults, protests and terrorist incidents.
Not to mention the class action lawsuit that would come from releasing the cops on a bunch of rich white suburban kids. Like half these kids parents are probably lawyers.
Considering it’s a school full of white kids yeah the lack of media attention is surprising. If it was a majority minority school I would not be surprised considering some shit has gone down in my area that hasn’t gone national. We just went national once for what was very obviously a hate crime but the mostly white jury didn’t get the dude on the hate part.
The school shooter episode was episode was ENTIRELY ridiculous and unethical. No high school in America would do a surprise school shooter drill with realistic gun shots and ppl trying to kick down the door.
13RW is the second show I've seen have a storyline with it. New Amsterdam was the first and it basically had this little girl see a psychiatrist because her parents thought she was losing it since she spoke of a school shooting at her school but her parents hadn't known of one. It was revealed that her school, a middle school for goodness sake, did a drill and actually took it a step further than 13RW but I digress. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if something like that has happened in America but it's extremely unrealistic for such a thing to happen in California, with the explanation being that the school was following a law put in place.
anon there’s no way school administrators would approve of gun shots in the school around minors. That’s just unethical. I would understand an simulation where they are aware of the situation and they know it’s not real but having kids think they are really in danger and their lives on the line is something that would not happen
I've been saying this for so long. He actually was quite good in s1. But after that, they gave him nothing to work with since they didn't have a book to adapt anymore.
Badzi Dylan said it himself that season 4 was difficult to film so at least that made him a better actor. In my opinion he did great. But I’m no film major
Honestly as someone that is suicidal, watching that scene in the middle of the night - I watched the show as soon as it premiered and binged the whole thing in ten straight hours - was awful and it made me really, well not good. So I wished they had learned from all the chaos that the scene - and the two rape ones they also showed - brought people that they claimed the show was partially for and did better... I refused to watch the other seasons but just seeing channels I'm subscribed to talk about them makes me feel kinda weird.
Hey I hope you're doing okay right now, please reach out to friends, family, or professionals if you're ever feeling particularly rough. I do believe there's a lot in life worth living for
@@AmandaTheJedi I am actually, therapy and meds work and also having a strong foundation. Just really wanted to give the optics of someone that goes to the struggles they claim to want to talk about about and how the way they go about it doesn't actually help. Anyway, thanks for the video and the answer! Have a good night
I still believe that the series should have ended with clay in a mental hospital working on his health after J's death. The fact that all these things happen in such a small town is insane. Can't imagine what losing so many people does to someone. Edit: I also want to add that no one getting zach help for what is clearly becoming an alcoholic addiction is sick.
I genuinely thought Clay would be in a mental facility at the end too, like he should be, and getting help. But his issues were pretty much dismissed and no mention of medication from the psychiatrist whatsoever.
Man, for a show that is supposed to be “drawing attention to real problems” they sure do LOVE triggering the CRAP out of actual victims. Let’s be honest, people getting raped in school bathrooms doesn’t happen very often. We don’t need to “draw attention to it”. That scene was, however, super triggering and I could no longer watch the show after seeing it.
The showrunners went to some awful schools if people getting sodomised with mops was a regular thing for them that's all I can say. And like you say the showrunners claim to be aiming at people going through some of the same things the characters do but then they portray what they're going through wrong or traumatise people watching who have gone through it.
Even if the population is small, look what happened after Saving Private Ryan was released. Yes it's an exceptional movie, but after it was released it was followed by an increase in veteran suicides due to how incredibly realistic the beach scene was. However, they handled the PSTD correctly and how unavailable mental health resources were to veterans.
I see why they'd have someone go through that, not necessarily in a school bathroom, but of course they handled it like shit. I remember back when I was still in school and people were binging this shit people started talking like they understand things now and, honestly, this show just made the stigma much worse.
I feel like if they had clay kill himself as the finale, it would have successfully shown how suicide can affect those around you, especially since they’ve put so much emphasis on how jaded and broken he’s become. Still a shitty show but they definitely could’ve found a way to fix it
Despite how cheesey it would have been, I wanted that ending.The show could have ended with Clay shooting himself in the police station. I was waiting for it but ... yeah.
I wished the ending of them burying the tapes and going off to follow their dreams were revealed to be daydreams in jail or psych ward, or punished for something they did. Why do they expect us to root for them to have a normal life after all of that? What they did was still illegal and they can't credit themselves as a 'realistic' and 'raw' show when they don't have any real consequences.
Karleigh Bennett yeah but the therapist was a joke, the licensed psychologist didn’t even put him in a psych ward immediately after he exhibited highly noticeable symptoms. He was a danger to himself and others, he really needed help.
Dylan Minnette is such a good actor, he was snubbed for award recognition for the first season, but they annihilated his character. This show is one of the worst teen shows ever made.
I felt like it was building up to him with dissociative identity disorder. There was even a moment where someone said “this isn’t you” and Clay said “I know, it isn’t” or something. Gaps in memory, a recent trauma to trigger it, panic attacks at a young age (indicating some possible trauma at a young age), talking to other people in his head, etc
@@tatjanaknezevic2524 There's a season 7 and an American version of the show that only lasted one season I wouldn't recommend the latter but I like season 7.
And I still left some stuff out, like they have Zach almost take advantage of a girl way too drunk to consent which I don't know if that was supposed to be his 'wake up' call, then he gets into college for music at the last second. But he only stopped because alex and charlie walked in, Monty's sister has no impact on the show whatsoever and isn't used well at all... so much wrong.
Amanda the Jedi or how Tony and Alex gave the principal pictures of photos Tyler had in his bag during the drill and expressed fear that their friend could potentially be a school shooter and the school took no steps to intervene or figure out why they were scared. It was a mess of a season
@@k.miranda4667 Yep! And some people will defend the whole thing. I don't care if people enjoy it for what it is, but it jumped the shark on mental health awareness and accountability a LONG time ago.
Amanda the Jedi yeah this was a once season show even Katherine Langford said it. Always trying to up the shock factor and outrage made it way to tense and unrealistic as hell. It went from eye opening teen drama to soap opera. Glad u see it
I still suffer from depression but I'm no longer what I refer to as "actively suicidal" and every time I hear a story of someone taking their own life it just hits me that much harder and reminds me of why I'm still here, knowing that the emotional pain I might be feeling is nowhere near the anguish my loved ones would feel if I took my own life. my best friend's best man at his wedding ended up taking his own life and it was GUT WRENCHING, especially because I remember his sense of humour, how much his speech made me laugh, and to think that someone who could bring such joy is gone hurts me to this day
This show would be...fine, if they just advertised it as a "shocking" teen drama, but advertising it as an important show that people need to watch, is highly harmful. This show seriously hurt Netflix's image for me.
I never watched 13 reason why on netflix, I just read the book (so i know the content of the first season). I really hate the book because I was struggling with mental health problems myself and the way the author portrays Hannah's problems was just so dumb. Hannah was a typical teen girl written by a male author, there was no real depth on what mental health problem she had or any evidence that she suffered from depression. It was just like: yeah, they laughed at my ass, guess I will die. The reasons she commit suicide were more revenge than really suffering. The book indicates that suicide is a good option if you want people to feel bad about what they have done to you. And this is not okay! Nobody kills themself because they want revenge! And blaming all the people that they are the reason why she isn't alive anymore is just so wrong. Especially if the reasons are something like: You went away after I told you to leave, how dare you! I can name so many reason why I hate the book, but nobody cares. Edit: typo
Took the words straight out of my mouth. I felt exactly the same way when I read the book. Everything was too romanticized, and there were so many moments where it just screamed "written by a straight white man" through and through. Felt more like what ""normal"" people think being mentally ill is like than the actual (and painful) reality of it.
and the author gave hannah _no_ personality except the fact that she was depressed. i agree with you completely that her suicide, especially the tapes ("if you are listening to this, you are one of the reasons why") seemed more like revenge than anything else. this creates a twisted view - especially in teens who are easily influenced - and spreads misinformation about mental illness by almost making it seem like it's an act of revenge, which it's not. in fact, now that i think of it, i don't think any of the characters had any personality except the shit they went through. for example, alex was the one who tried killing himself at the end of s1, jessica is the sexual abuse victim etc. the book and the show portray teenagers and mental illness in such an unrealistic way that i struggled to get through the book, and stopped watching the show after a few episodes. another problem i had with the show, especially, was that clay had a 'if i knew i could have saved you' mentality. i don't know if its just me, and please correct me if i am wrong, but to me it seemed like he truly believed if he had known beforehand that hannah was suicidal, he could have loved her and made her better. and i don't mean in a 'i'll listen to you when you need and i'll encourage you to seek therapy' way. rather in a 'i loved you. if only i would have told you that when you were alive, you wouldn't be dead', way. or perhaps that's just me and these are only a few problems i have with this show. sorry for the long essay.
Can we talk about Alex for a second, completely Turing him gay so he can spend time with creepy James Franco who won’t turn him in becuae they feel in love, like wtf
Stark_Syndrome yeah like they didn’t even allude to it in the first two seasons. I’m fact, he literally had SEX. MULTIPLE TIMES. Like, does that make sense? At all???
actually revealing that alex was bisexual was actually one of the very few good aspects of the show. we already knew he wasn't straight from season 1, and it's already foreshadowed throughout the series (like how he got a boner when he had a fight with zach in the locker room), so it's a good way to portray a character that had recently come to terms with their sexuality only later on in life.
season 3 could’ve been about alex discovering his sexuality. especially after that scene with zach in the locker room. wasted opportunity. now it just looks like they jammed it in to one season.
I mean, bisexuality exists??? He never says he's gay. Also chances are he was pretty closeted hence the no alluding to it earlier in the series (other than the boner he gets hugging zach), like he mentions that part of the reason he made friends with Bryce and the jocks was because his father kept thinking/implying he was gay because of whatever. Presumably his suicide attempt made his father more sympathetic. Now, I still think it was kinda lazy writing, and I really, really don't know how I feel about his relationship with Charlie, because I like Charlie but it just doesn't seem like Alex really wants to be in a relationship with him? LIke charlie keeps pestering him in increasingly over the top ways, and alex just seems so apathetic
you forgot to mention that part when in the beginning of an episode, clay dreams about some apocalypse where everyone is fighting to survive or something (???)
I am so sick of people trying to represent issues with good intentions and no research or common sense or tact. Like, does no one think to consult a psychologist on a manuscript or script, and actually listen to what they say?
@@chelsie2767 I know!! I can think of lots of other examples of mental health issues/psychological disorders being misrepresented in books/shows/movies, and in a way I hate it most when they are clearly trying to raise awareness and yet put in no effort and spread misinformation instead.
The dead people reacting with Clay is actually a form of depression, at least from my point of view. There is a type of depression call Psychotic Depression, which is where someone with depression creates visions and has similar symptoms to schizophrenia. That's why Hannah, Bryce, and Monty can "interact" and "communicate" with Clay.
Lacilynn Graham ofc it exists, but was it well done? Did they call it psychotic depression? I haven't actually watched it so idk but they probably didn't
It's possible. I'm not a professional but within the past year I've done a bunch of research into hallucinations and psychosis. There seem to be a lot of reasons people would have hallucinations or psychosis. I've read a bit about schizophrenia, major depression with psychotic features (aka psychotic depression), brain injuries, PTSD, personality disorders like bipolar and BPD, epilepsy and the list goes on. Honestly I think they might have started off as ghosts and then the writers changed their mind about it for some reason. I've seen this ghost thing in multiple shows although the only one I can think of right now is Greys Anatomy.
What I hated the most, even with all the unrealistic moments, is no one ..not a single person tried to help Clay when he was clearly acting weird. The sole fact that even after prom night, Jessica was still dating that douche and acts likes nothing happened is sooo frustrating.
They didn't help any of those kids... Hell I called Monty being abused and closeted from the moment I saw him and especially after the tyler incident him talking to him it wasn't just his dad beating him.... Justin until he ran away like wtf y'all suspect abuse but did f*ck all about it?
I'm schizophrenic and I have no plans to watch this show, let alone the final few seasons. Ham-fisted execution will always turn the audience off, especially if the source material is dealing with a sensitive subject like mental illness.
Exactly the reason I didn't watch the first season when it got out as a "just recently got out of depression and used to be suicidal" person. I could tell just from the trailer this show was not actually about helping suicidal people but about sensibilizing non-suicidal people to the struggle of depression and being suicidal and why the fuck would I want to make myself go through that. People keep saying they had good intention but it really seem to me like they just wanted to make bank off of the back of people struggling with mental illness. It seemed exploitative from the start the way the show pretended to cater to us when they didn't care about giving help and hope.
If you watched American Dad, you'd know that being drunk makes you impervious to harm from sudden impacts such as car crashes and leaping off of buildings. "What about the people in the other car?" "They're dead. Damn fool was driving stone sober."
I can't even get through the first episode after seeing Jessica hallucinate Bryce. As you said, hallucinations are very rare. I would've been very happy and relieved if they gave Clay a diagnosis of schizophrenia which is what his symptoms seem to exhibit, but because so many of the kids are "seeing" ghosts, it seems an attempt to negate the severity of Clay's auditory and visual hallucinations. As someone who experienced PTSD symptoms for many years (and still has dregs), I find this latest season even more disruptive/disturbing than other ones. The loud banging from Monty hitting Clay's car was so triggering I felt a little panick-y. So, I had to stop the episode there the first time I tried to watch. The world of Thirteen Seasons Why is traumatizing/traumatized enough with hyping the dramatics. Disappointed by the writers. I won't be finishing this season. I also heard how Justin's arc ended, which I think is utter BS. Thank you for your video and voice of reason in what has become a reason-less show.
I thought they would turn it into someone poisoning Clay with hallucinogenics (not weed, obviously, but maybe something what would false register as that?), but nah, "I just think about dead people".
At the beginning of Season 4, I got my hopes up that Zach would have a strong arc this season. One of the more powerful things for me in the book (it is mentioned a tad in the first season) is how Clay recaps Hannah's behaviors and mannerisms on her last few days. She was somewhat social again, she was giving her items away to others, and no longer cared about her grades. I thought Ross Butler did a fine performance, don't get me wrong, but the whole season, I was like... "Um... Zach is throwing his entire life away and is clearly showing self-destructive signs of a potentially suicidal person." He no longer cared about school, he was drunk all of the time, he was going off alone and doing wreckless things with Alex. He even took the blame for Bryce's murder just so Diego would beat him down (note that he didn't even fight back). I watched reactions and almost every person just would chuckle and go "Ah, Zach..." But I was genuinely concerned for this kid. I'm disappointed that he didn't get a proper resolution because especially with Justin's death, his turn around could have had more of a impact if done right. EDIT: Also, it bugged me personally how the kids had their phones during the "shooting" and they were only used to say goodbye to their parents, considering they obviously didn't know it was just a drill. Jessica, Monty's sister, etc. The whole time, I just was thinking... "You aren't going to take this time to call the police first and THEN reach out to your parents?" ... the amount of lawsuits any high school would get for pulling that kind of thing... I do want to apologize if anyone reads this and HAS gone through a "safety drill" such as portrayed in the show.
I couldn’t forget since they cancelled One Day at a Time for this show, and left the fanbase desperate for good news, (which we got, in the form of it being picked up by a network.)
Agreed, it's highly likely that Clay is suffering from undiagnosed schizophrenia, in that he sees Hannah, Bryce and Monty's ghosts, and even has full on conversations with them. But most schizophrenics experience auditory hallucinations, and not visual ones.
Trina Q in the show it explains that they aren’t really hallucinations. They’re basically his imagination giving him a physical representation of what he believes conservations would be like with them.
In most cases, a psychological condition will remain at auditory hallucinations. Severe PTSD has a rare chance of visual, but that usually happens during visual stimuli that simulate the person's trauma. Physiological problems, however, can cause false visual stimuli resulting in visual hallucinations. This is why parasomniacs can have "waking dreams"; lack of sleep does this too. Additionally, it's very rare for visual hallucinations to be full-on people. Usually it's things like shadows or lights where there are none. The magnitude of the problem that character is facing would have been found already.
@@trinaq If that had been a plot point they comitted to, it might´ve actually worked. Like, have Clay get worse and then people around him _notice_ and get him to therapy, perhaps put him in a mental hospital where he can deal with all the shit he`s been through. Might´ve been a decent plot for the second season or heck, the third. But, no. We gotta redeem the rapist. I wonder who that idea tested well with.
@@Xehanort10 It's *gotta* be an SCP. I'm not accepting any other answers because I REFUSE to think of the possibility that this town *isn't* being monitored by some secret agency.
In a distant future,Netflix will be remembered for: -Orange is the new Black -Stranger Things -Roma -The irishman -Marriage Story -Da 5 Blood -13 Reasons why
the fact that Clay was literally hallucinating/dissociating for half the season and nobody, not even his fucking THERAPIST even MENTIONED that maybe hey, Clay, you know, maybe we should be giving you MEDICATION like an actual DOCTOR would do for these situations instead of just letting you do fuck all and allowing your mental state to get worse just drove me insane. Literally every single episode as things got worse and worse I just said, "can we PLEASE medicate Clay now? PLEASE?!" and the only conceivable explanation I can come up with for why they DIDN'T medicate Clay was they needed all of the bullshit Clay does for the plot.
it's sad because the book is actually well written. It's not dragging the story and the shock value is far different. They made a well-written book into a horribly written show.
Winston, Diego and Estela were all missed opportunities. With Estela they could have done a storyline where she is bullied because of who her brother was (rapist and murderer of Bryce (thought by the school). She could have been active with Winston in the investigation. But no she was just quiet, without having any purpose.
Also... Is that girl ok?? If I remember correctly, Monty lived in a dangerous neighbourhood with a dangerous father.. he was abusive and an alcoholic I think... But that girl seems to be super shiny!
Thank you for making this video! You perfectly tackled every issue I found in the new season. Thanks for taking the time to compile all the chaos and make it so much easier to understand
Thank you for talking about how odd it was that Clay was able to escape the psych ward! That is probably the biggest issue I had with Clay’s mental health storyline!
When Bryce broke his leg he loat his whole future he can no longer get a sport scholarship and this depressing circumstance makes his school career spiral and his emotional circumstamce spiral
3:07 Exactly. Hallucinations are images in the minds of insane people that they project into the real world. But instead of making clear that the "Hannah" Clay was seeing was a product of his traumatised mind they act like she's a ghost haunting him. At least in stuff like Dexter the Harry hallucination represents the rational part of Dexter's mind that follows his dead adoptive dad's code. And the Joker hallucination in Batman Arkham Knight created by a combination of Scarecrow's fear gas and Batman being infected with Joker's blood in Arkham City is shown to be saying what Batman's thinking and it's basically Batman imagining how Joker would react to certain situations if he was alive.
I agree with the fact that the show should’ve handle their portrayal of hallucinations better. That being said, please do more research on hallucinations and how they function. They are not the construct of people who are crazy, there are multiple types and causes of hallucinations, and associating hallucinations with people who are insane can be incredibly harmful. I’m sorry if I misinterpreted your comment especially since I agree with your stance, I just wanted to let you and others reading know that there’s more to hallucinations than people who are “insane.” Thank you for comment and your time.
@@Notrandomatall Thinking back I shouldn't have added the insane part because there are people with PTSD for example who aren't insane but because they're traumatised they sometimes hallucinate along with thinking back to what happened to them.
I read the book years before the show came out. The book was good. It wasn't about preventing suicide, it was just...a book. The show is awful, in my opinion. Way unnecessary to show an entire suicide from start to finish. Gave me a panic attack. Never watched any more of the show after that.
They actually edited the suicide scene out. It isn't there anymore. Back when Season 1 came out they argued tooth and nail that it was necessary to show it, then after a couple years of mental health experts telling them it was a bad idea they quietly got rid of it.
I really loved season 1 - and the scene where Hannahs mother finds her in the bathtub broke me. Then I really anticipated season 2, even though I thought a one season miniseries was enough. Then season 2 came, and despite some interesting ideas it was all build up but no pay off, except for the shock value rape scene and almost school shooting that were left as built up for season 3. I had then basically totally forgotten about the show until the trailer for season 3 came out last summer, and that´s where I saw that the show had basically become Riverdale but with better acting and pretentious writers. I binged season 3 in two days and I was so fascinated by how bad it was - from the british Mary Sue narrator to the fact that the writers thought it was a good idea to show serial rapist Bryce in a good light o.O And season 4 didnt know what it wanted to be, and despite the fact that I liked the final two scenes - them all burying Hannahs tapes and Clay leaving the town with Tony - it all just seemed so strange to think how it started out as a serious show about the suicide of a teenager then over the cause of 3 seasons became a run of the mill teen drama, but with "starting a conversation".
I really, really liked the first season. I really appreciated the ugly, raw, honest way they depicted sexual assault and the fallout from it. I even used 13 reasons why to help people in my family understand how it actually feels going through the pain I went to. I hate it when shows subtly romanticize rape or it becomes a tape revenge story because that’s not the experience of people who are actually assaulted. There’s a scene where she has a panic attack in a changing room and that was a horribly painfully real thing to show. And then it just kept getting worse and worse and more problematic and it went from being upsetting to insulting awhile ago
LMFAO I saved this video for when I finished the final season so I wouldn't be spoiled but ended up forgetting about this show for 3 whole years... time to watch ig😂
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey! If you're someone dealing with any of the things outlined in this show, don't be afraid to reach out for help. Here's a list of various emergency hotlines in different countries and cities, your life is worth living - bit.ly/3fmRnL3
Yes so true i know people and it’s so hard when your going through troubles and I wrote a poem/song for my friends and there trouble I’d love to share if someone asks but I won’t sing it lol
I have one question
How do you feel about making Alex all of a sudden gay?
Even though the romance between him and Charlie was kinda cute it felt so force like the producers wanted a story of a "Boy discovers he is gay" or something like that.
But I don't like it in generell his transformation because it doesn't fit his character. In the first 3 seasons he was in love with Jessica and now......he is just into boys.....
I also think that they did it because of the acceptence of the LGBTQ+ Community but why didn't they just used the already existing gay characters like Toni or Courtney and Ryan. I hope you still know who the last two were because they appear for like 10minutes on the last episode.
Another reason could be that they have to make him gay so Winston falls in love with him and he shuts up in the end because of the relationship with Alex.....maybe? But it would support my point that Alex's coming out is more forced than genuine.
Well overall I wasn't really mpressed by Alex's story in season 4. I was like "What was the reason?!"
What is your opinion?
How did he climb out of that hole?
Pulls a cop's gun and waves it around.
Shouts he has a gun in a POLICE STATION.
Blows up a car.... ON CAMERA.
Blood drenched with a shiv.
It's ok. We're fine. No consequences.
I could go on for days.
This show licks balls.
So I haven't watched the show but due to other youtubers like YMS and IHE I have been able to get what has been going on. After seeing the videos about the season 3 murder cover-up I kept telling myself jokingly I bet they find a way to get them off for leading to two homicides. Now you tell me it wasn't a joke? The characters getting away with this is actually insulting and the writers need to be called out every chance they get. Fuck this show.
I'm pissed, I feel like my intelligence has been insulted. Hallucinating isn't normal, I'm annoyed they just gloss over it like clay isn't having serious mental breakdowns.
YEP! it's like 'oh I just imagine people in a creative way' WHAT
that’s EXACTLY what i said as i was watching this!! why is the show acting like it isn’t a big deal to have huge lapses in memory and hallucinations so fucking vivid it blurs with reality seamlessly? i can’t believe how much of a joke it is.
They can't even portray it right. Visual is Supper rare. Audio, common. And he dose not have schizophrenia. He acts to normal. It is a disorder of thoughts being in the wrong order. They can't even get basic mental illness right. And schizophrenia that is very acute is rare. ( I have ptsd since age 2. But have friends who do have schizophrenia. That is being managed. Ie asimptimatic. Memory loss is rare as well. From someone who has lived 30 years with ptsd.
@@AmandaTheJedi if he was just imagining people in a creative way (which is something I actually do) he wouldn't have conversations like "are you real? Are you corporeal? Can I touch you?" I know my imagined people with imagined interactions are just that. Imagined. 🤦🏻♀️
Yessss!!!!
They shot themselves in the foot by trying to bring up 'police brutality' and 'racial profiling/injustice', all while the main plot surrounding this season is shielding Alex, a white kid who's father is a cop, from getting convicted with murder because 'he deserves a future'. 10/10 writing.
THIS. YOU HAVE SUMMED UP MY FEELINGS PERFECTLY.
White privilege, NICE
(It's sarcasm)
Yes! The characters talk about how Alex is so nice, blah blah blah.. When was Alex the one holding up the group? He literally shows no emotion towards being a murderer. You'd think Alex would be the one hallucinating and acting skiddish. Also wtf him trying to give a speech at Justin's funeral?? He literally said "I don't care about Justin, but Charlie does so I showed up." I feel like there was a ton of white privilege going on. All the white kids with good families got away with everything. What kind of message is that? Also, why was Anie so quiet this season? I felt like she was pushed to the side.
@@MissAimeePond right? Like I don't know in 1st season Alex wasn't the nicest but he was at least interesting character. From season 2 they wrote him as boring character. And when he killed Bryce I thought he would at least feel bad and even more after Monty death. But nope, he is obviously good person after all so he deserve minimum two love interest during one season and going to collage of course.
@@eliskaprouzova2215 dont forget Clay did anything he want but because his mom is a lawyer he did and got away with so much. He became as bad as Bryce
Season 1: Why did Hannah Baker commit suicide?
Season 2: Hannah's parents' trial against the school, Hannah is still important
Season 3: Who killed Bryce Walker: Riverdale 2.0, Ani knows everyone's business
Season 4: A School Shooting, minors hiring prostitutes, Aids diagnosis: WHAT EVEN IS THIS SHOW TRYING TO BE ANYMORE?! 😬🤨
Season 10: Bryce returns from the dead and raises an army of Zombie rapists
Season 23: Clay kills Satan to get Hannah’s soul back
Season 45: Hannah ascends to a higher form ala Madoka Magica
These comments, I am hollering 😂
@@gregjayonnaise8314 season 100: Hannah grows ill, the world breaks apart, Clay must set out on a quest with his luck dragon to find a cure for her, when it turns out the reader of the book must simply give Hannah a new name
a hot mess
Season 1: why suicide happens Season 2: the aftermath of suicide Season 3: sexual assault Season 4: what the fuck
My main issue with Season 4 was how they didn't get Clay the help he clearly needs and explained his hallucinations as 'magical realism'.
as someone who's most definitely on the spectrum that made me go "BULLSHIT" the hardest. As someone stuck with being an introvert yet also wanting to have friends to hang with, i sometimes roleplay with myself, but I'm still clearly aware it's not real and just go back to reality when I have important shit to do. This is full-on mental issues. I'm starting to think that head wound Clay got in Season 1 was more than just bruising.
@@TheBonkleFox I also imagine I talk to people and I know it's wrong. For Clay, it's the trauma. He sees Justin, Bryce, Monty and Hannah because for some reasons he can't let them go.
@@TheBonkleFox I hope you guys are doing okay, and have found people to talk too. And that you’re not lonely.
It really sounds like Clay had schizoaffective disorder and I'm so mad it wasn't explored more in a show about mental illness, cause it could've really shown this in a rare positive light since psychotics are so often the faces of villains
@@jaidermosquera5629hey it’s not necessarily wrong….. don’t feel guilt or like you’re a bad person for doing it
Clay literally set the principals car on fire, drove drunk, destroyed school property, grabbed an officers gun and waved it around, said he had a gun at a police station and still didn’t get in trouble. He should be locked up. I’m annoyed 🤦🏻♀️
and also destroyed his therapist's office
He was so annoying in this season
Sounds like he needs serious therapy. I was very close to snapping like that and therapy + meds seriously saved me. It’s true that not everyone gets/can get help but it’s portrayed very badly from what I can see
Comments like these are literally why people are afraid to admit the things they've done and reach for help. Clay had a mental health problem.
@@irsatahir8844 you're a bit right
It’s still so funny to me how the title has pretty much nothing to do with the story anymore
“Disgusting Parade of Human Misery” would be a better title. Or maybe “Silly Teens, Therapy Is For Losers”.
Yeah they just took it way too far.
I mean undershows have the same problem as well in a way, if that makes sense
Yeah. It went from a show about why a girl killed herself to attempted school shootings, sodomy with a mop, tried to portray an unrepentant rapist as a misunderstood good guy just to serve the badly done murder mystery plot of the 3rd season,untreated mental illnesses, misguided parents trying to blame a whole school for what one student in it did and so on.
A better title would be “Untreated Mental Illnesses, School Shootings, Murder and Other Normal Stuff Teens Obviously Go Through"
This series is the textbook picture of "beating a dead horse".
The dead horse that is this show has been pummelled into the ground.
They've beaten it so much that it no longer looks like a horse. It just looks like a horse blob.
I haven’t even seen it but it’s pretty obvious to me that it should’ve been a mini series. One season was all that was needed.
They've beaten that horse into a layer one atom thick
Season 5 they revive the dead horse and teach it how to beat itself.
Much more effective.
There was a boy at my high school who committed suicide in a grandiose sort of way. (School went on lockdown because there was a suspicion he might shoot up the school). I didn’t know him at all because I was new to the school. He was depressed, had a bad home life, and was being bullied. But the kids that bullied him were laughing about the drama the NEXT DAY. And the school moved on from the incident very quickly. My point is that 13 Reasons Why is being so unrealistic, while claiming to “bring awareness” to an issue.
Omg. Poor kid. That makes me incredibly sad.
A girl at my school committed suicide and I heard people say awful things about her during her death announcement, like "good riddance" and "one less freak"...
I think 13RY started off the same way. No one was very affected by Hannah's death (except Clay of course) till the tapes came out. They even show random teens just clicking pictures with the area dedicated to Hannah and then just move on quickly.
Senga Rest assured this is pretty common everywhere.Most people, esp teens are not empathic or sympathetic. Some do grow and change, some never do. That's life.
@@SoWhosGae That's not life that's your personal experience.
I just can't forgive Justin's death. I can't. The only character who really tried and deserved to raise above everything horrible he experienced in his life dies a horrible and painful death while the others deserve to graduate and be happy?? I can't forgive that.
EXACTLY!! HE WAS THE BEST ONE AND HAD THE MOST GROWTH!
He didn't deserve death
Same wtf. His redemption arc was pretty much the best
He did a full 180 as a person. I started hating him and then... damn
that's what happens in life
Clay in episode 6: "How dare you make us think someone was threatening us with a gun in the school when there really was no threat! You gave lot of people trauma with a threat that wasn't real!"
Clay in episode 10: "Hello police station full of innocent people. I'm dangerous and I have a gun."
Clay "School shooting is wrong unless I'm the shooter" Jensen.
you missed the point, he did it so some one would notice him , if he was really trying to hurt ppl or be the shooter he wouldn’t go to the fckin police station.
@@throwsummo the police didn't want to hurt anyone either but they still put the mental health of the kids in the school second to accomplish their goal.
@@throwsummo Stop making excuses for this shit show.
@@throwsummo That still doesn’t excuse the fact that it is hypocritical beyond any reason of doubt for Clay to say such a thing, and its just one of many examples of the show’s bad writing.
What pissed me off most about the car accident in season 4 is Jeff DIED in a car crash for drunk driving in Season 1. Maybe they couldn’t get the actor back or just forgot, but if Clay’s seeing dead people it would have been nice to see Jeff around there. His death really left Clay in a rough spot for awhile, and now he’s doing the exact same thing and doesn’t give a crap 😤
except he wasn't drunk driving. But also season 1 was so long time ago, i totally forgot about his character. When Clay was giving his speech, he said three people he loved didn't survive high school, and I was like "who's the third???"
Another character did this and crashed into a stop sign, but I bet you don't remember that, shows how forgettable it is
@@cherries_and_wine same I had to consult google because they literally havent mentioned him since
Q // he graduated a while back.
I think Sheri would be the only one to imagine Jeff if she was in this season because she was the cause of Jeff’s death
I feel like Degrassi shows more respect for the subjects that this show tries to tackle than this show actually does.
Degrassi is my one true love
@@AmandaTheJedi I was obsessed with that show when it aired here in the US and I'm very happy that PlutoTV has an entire channel of just Degrassi.
I never watched Degrassi, but once when I was in middle school, I read a fanfic script thing somewhere on the internet of Freddy Kreuger killing and stalking the main cast of Degrassi. That was certainly fun to read while supposed to be working :P
I always found it hilarious how Next Class handlers issues worse than previous iterations from the 2000’s
@@lemonnomel9416 even at it's worst (next class) Degrassi is a diamond compared to the shit heap of 13RW
So what conversation are they trying to start by having all of their characters avoid therapy like the plague and completely defining them by their copious amounts of severe and unresolved trauma 🤨🤨 I mean, can anyone even name AT LEAST two traits or story arcs Jessica has other than being a victim of her abuser? Or Justin being addicted to drugs?
Yep, Jessica has no character traits that aren't linked to her being a victim. It's so boring.
Maybe the fact that teens go through fucked up shit all the time but because they feel alone they never seek out help.
Most of the time in 13 reasons why the characters who were friends never even shared the fact that they were dealing with fucked up shit because thwy also felt like they had to be strong. Which is a very real fact for being in high school.
In real life not every one goes to therapy.
i liked justin :( he was funny
but ur right
Totally agree with the Jessica thing. She is literally just 'I'm a sexual assault survivor'. And that's it. Justin...I feel like we get a little more growth from him outside of drug use, but that's probably mostly because he didn't have drug issues in season one, and he also had the whole adoption thing. Being in the main character's bedroom kinda forces you to have more screen time/ character development.
Fun fact: Hannah’s father is played by Brian d’Arcy James, who also played Shrek on Broadway
Holy shit I can’t believe you made me realize that
Hannah's mom was Addison Montgomery in Grey's anatomy, including Clay Jenson who played a patient and then there's Justin's doctor in season 4 who played Ellis Grey in Grey's anatomy
he was also one of the actors who played the husband (dan) in next to normal!
I knew it!! I recognize him immediately lol
And that's pretty much it
I'm so incredibly mad at Justin's death/the AIDS plot bc it ruined Justin's storyarch COMPLETELY... they could've done an amazing "it gets better" and "recovery isn't linear but worth it" story with him struggling, but graduating and going of to college. HIV/AIDS feels like just another issue they wanted to tackle (and did that horribly). They should've left it out completely or have him be tested positive for HIV, but getting adequate treatment AND MAKING IT OUT ALIVE!!!!
They really ruined all the character and plot development around Justin smh
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽ikr, like they could have written that things get better, and that he goes to college
reinforcing the stigma of HIV/AIDS being a death sentence definitely isn't a good "conversation starter"
They really could have shown how HIV/AIDS is no longer a death sentence, and you can still recover. It's very stigmatizing, especially for gay men who tend to be who people associate with HIV/AIDS.
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“Tackling an issue” just means showing it on screen for these people. They’re just checking boxes; they don’t give a damn about the things real teens have to go through.
I also love how they finally had Alex come out as gay and he manages to have like 2 and a half love interests right off the bat wowzers 😅
Ikr, i was counting. Three kisses with three different guys by episode 6.
There were so many people coming out that I thought it was a jk Rowling shtick
They probably living in utopia whee being gay is super normal, like no one actually struggled with their sexuality at all and alwuas able to find hook up buddies
What I thought was funny is how no one even batted and eyelid even though he’s been banging chicks for three seasons. Just felt a bit random.
No hes bi
Regarding school shooter drills in the USA: in my junior year, we had a drill. We all knew it was a drill. We knew we were supposed to be having a drill that day or that week, we just weren't sure when it was going to happen. So I'm in study hall and they come over the PA and say "lockdown" so the teacher turns off the lights, we put our backpacks on our desks (never understood why, feel like that's just screaming 'hey there are def kids in here' but okay), and we all go to the back of the classroom and sit down behind the lab tables (my study hall was in the bio room).
Everything is proceeding normally. After about 5 minutes, someone came around and jiggled the door handle to make sure it was locked, and we were just chilling, waiting for them to say "all clear". These things, at least in my school, usually lasted like 10, 15 minutes tops, so we just wait it out. Some kids are still doing work in the dark.
10 minutes go by. 15. 25. The bell rings, but no all-clear was given, so we stay put. Now we're starting to freak out a little bit. We haven't heard anything outside, no shouting, no screaming, but these things just DO NOT take that long. Some of the other kids had their phones and were texting friends in other classes, and they weren't moving either. That's the thing that was drilled into us from like 2nd grade: no matter what, do NOT move until the all-clear is given, even if you think it's a drill. Warning bell (one minute to get to class) for the next class rings. Then the final bell. Still nothing. We're all actually scared, now. I'm regretting leaving my phone in my bag because even though I'm still clinging to the "it's a drill" idea, I just want to text my parents. Just in case.
Literally like 35-40 minutes after they sent us into lockdown, they give the all clear and confirm it was a drill. They just forgot (YES. FUCKING FORGOT.) to give the all-clear and didn't notice anything was wrong until they realized no one had walked by during the passing period. I'm glad it was nothing, obvs, but THEY FUCKING FORGOT?!?!?!?!
So yeah. That's my lockdown story. We also took a test during a lockdown drill once because the teacher didn't get the memo that it was happening and didn't want to reschedule. We all huddled in the back and he was just like "stay quiet and don't cheat" lol
Honestly good on you tho. It's absolutely amazing that absolutely none of you tried anything and ignored the drill without the "all clear". We don't deal with school shooter at all in my country and that is seriously impressive that you all stay put.
@Karleigh Bennett I'm glad I haven't heard of any active school shootings but I've heard of them being caught beforehand. Can't remember how many months ago a kid went to school with a gun and it was found in his locker. It was in my city in Canada so unfortunately the potential is definitely there.
The thought that drills for school shootings exist is wild to me. Like that there is the need to do it and that it's happening quite often if you hear the media. Gun laws in America are just crazy. I still don't get why some people in my country want loose laws. I can't remember one school shooting in all of the 20 years that I'm alive. But I can remember at least 4 in the last 2 years in the US. These are statistics that should let people think what's wrong with loose gun laws...
We only had a "drill" at a school party because one of our clumsy teachers ACCIDENTLY touched the button. That was a day I can tell you. Everyone was a bit mad after that...
@Karleigh Bennett Well, I grew up in an extremely safe area. I think we only ever had 1 legit lockdown in my life, and it was because there was a robbery a town over and they hadn't caught the guy yet, and that wasn't even a FULL lockdown, we just had a couple extra cops around and all the outside doors were locked. We still had classes and everything.
There was, however, a bomb threat in middle school, but it was nothing, just a kid playing a really not funny prank. I got extra time to finish my Spanish homework, though, so that was great.
Moon Girl if someone can legally own a gun I don’t see the problem with them owning whatever they want but if they shouldn’t own one they need to be stopped
13 Reasons Why could have been something really good and helpful but they just couldn't help being a typical teen drama and it became a wasted opportunity.
The show's a pretentious teen drama that thinks it's a deep anti suicide PSA.
@@Xehanort10 In my opinion the only "pretentious" attitude being displayed is coming from the critics. This is a story. Based on a written work that was never meant to be a semi-PSA. Yes, the makers of the series went out of their way to "explain" the non-glorification of the subject matter. But that was because society "demanded" it. There have been countless other teen dramas that included the death of one of the main characters. This was not meant to be ground breaking. Just storytelling. Again, whether you think it is "good" storytelling is up to each individual. But most storytelling will collapse under the weight of the expectation to be some kind of "Manifesto" of teen angst.
@@donny1960 They did glorify suicide though. Instead of portraying it as a horrible, tragic thing Hannah felt like she had no choice but to do it was painted as her revenge on people she didn't like. The only person she should have talked about on the tapes was Bryce since he was the one who raped her. But she put people on tapes for trivial reasons like throwing away a poem she wrote. So the show couldn't explain the non glorification of it because they were glorifying it. The only people treating it like it was some crusade against suicide were Netflix. Everyone else saw it for the glorified teen drama show it was.
Did people read the book? It didn’t helped teens, I read this book in grade 8. It was just a story of a girl who commits suicide and created these tapes for the people who had affect her life in a certain way. Maybe awareness but it wasn’t that helpful
@@Xehanort10 I watched the show. Hanna's death was horrible to everyone IN the show. The only people taking "glory" from her death were in the audience. And most of us in the audience had a different take on it. So again, the issue is audience created. What was on the screen could and has been interpreted in many ways. But there are people out there that ONLY see this story as an issue. Not as storytelling. Many storytellers use the literary device of having characters interact with the dead.The Ancient Greeks and Shakespeare did it often. It's only in today's society that this device in automatically deemed "glorifying" that death. I disagree with that interpretation. It was tragic for all concerned.
The thing that annoys me about Justin’s ending: YOU CANT DEVELOP AIDS THAT QUICKLY
Exactly
"He got aids, hes dead"
He got the pp pain
Honestly, I saw people actually having AIDS and just not caring about it. I have actual friends that have sex without a condom and say "I don''t want to test because it's better if I don't know". Justin seems to have similar attitudes for himself, so...stupid but not impossible?
As a doctor - YES YOU CAN. Cases have shown it can be as little as 9 months.
I am still confused on why Clay was so effected by Hannah and her life. They barely knew each other and he had a crush. Yet it WRECKED his life
Because there wouldn't have been a show to make money off of otherwise.
Because hes torn by the life he could of had with her had he actually helped her and possibly stopped her from dying
He mentioned that he fell in love so easy and hard. Also, he felt responsible for not doing enough.
@@pacoramirez7363 you do realize there was a book first right?
Because he has never been mentally stable and clearly had issues from day one. He had an unhealthy obsession and idolization of Hannah and was fixated on her and made it his job to fix her. He has had problems from day one.
I read the title “13 Reasons Why Season 4 Is Insane”, didn’t register that was the name of the show, and thought “13 reasons why season 4 of _what_ is insane?”
I am the big dumb.
Forgot the quotations around the title of the show which would help aha
This is very relatable. I've spent good five minutes looking at the title and trying to figure it out. Felt real dum' after the first second of the video.
Haha :D
I would totally make the same mistake but since season 4 came out I'm on constant alert. I've seen only episode 1 of the new season and it was hilariously bad so I expect the reviews to be equally entertaining :)
“I just want to be clear, I don’t actually see ghosts. I just imagine people and what I would say to them.” .... I think it might be better if you actually saw ghosts.
The fact that he says that as if it's totally normal is worrying.
Yeah, at least something would be there...
Meanwhile in Quarantine...
"Can we throw a ghost frat party?"
"No! No. No. Monty, you're not throwing a party of the damned."
"But I saw this really cute 80s gay porno star ghost..."
"No."
Possibly the most egregious cop-out line of all time.
@@DAsrada Lol
His name Clay explains the random out of nowhere changes to his character. He's a roll of clay to be shaped into whatever the writers want.
This show is literally written like a 13 year old's bad anime fanfiction-- in which every chapter something crazy happens just because the author thought it would be cool/shocking but none of these insane events have any lasting impact on the story and are usually forgotten by the next chapter.
Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way wants to know your location
@@TwighlightLugia ayy I was gonna mention My Immortal
13 reasons why kinda reminds me of a fanfic I read that had the main character getting into an argument, running out into traffic, and getting paralyzed, all in around 2 and a half sentences, and it just kinda continued at this breakneck speed and randomness for the rest of the story. Now, the difference between this fanfic and 13 reasons why is one of them was probably written by a child who doesn't have any actual experience in writing and the other was written by competent, seasoned writers and overseen by executives and producers who probably had to read this script many, many times over and could have changed the horrible story before it even got to the filming stage...
As a 13 year old I am offended, my stories are better.
I mean it'a not anime but still.
honestly i'd say nearly everything written by a 13 year old would be better by virtue based on the lone fact that _they are thirteen._ literal children most likely just starting to learn how to write stories.
with the amount of adults involved in the making of the show, that's just unforgiveable.
They only killed Justin cause he was the best character (along with Zach and they ruined him 💞)
Yes I said that about Zach as well. Zach had the best character arc from season 1. Then they made him horrible.
Actually Dylan pushes for that ending to happen. I was surprised
Zach was the best character by far
Zach was such a wasted potential for the "starting conversations" and "it gets better" message the show had in the beginning
Facts
You'd think a show that tries to bring awareness to mental health issues would show the positive effects of therapy but no I guess not.
EDIT: Thanks for the comments (and thanks Amanda!!). My point is that while therapy or seeing a psychologist can still be imperfect, if this show actually wants to help people struggling with mental health issues it should glorify and encourage reaching out for help. This is not supposed to be a psychological thriller - I don't need a Shutter Island type twist if the goal is just to "start a discussion". They should be modeling healthy connections between victims and those who can help because reaching out WORKS. (To those dealing with mental health issues, I SWEAR there are people who will listen to you more effectively than shown here and are able to help.)
Not as compelling of a story? Then, like Amanda says, don't make this about mental health.
I agree, it's ironic that the one time Hannah tries to tell the guidance counselor, Mr Porter, about her rape, she blames him for not running after her, even though she made it clear that she wanted to leave, and he wasn't skilled enough at his job to notice that she was suicidal. Still, he DID have a valid point in that if she refused to name her rapist, that it limited his capacity to help.
Also that they´d encourage people to ask for help, but I guess then they wouldn´t have a show.
@@trinaq That is an extremely small valid point in the midst of a lot of serious incompetence.
A counselor in that situation probably should pursue the kid, or at least schedule some *serious* follow-up.
Children and teens dealing with trauma are not the ones who need to be making the final decisions about their own care.
I have been that kid. Adults just respecting my desire to leave, or telling me all the ways they couldn't help instead of what they *could* do...that was a big part of how I ended up almost dying multiple times.
@@trinaq That is not how therapy works. No good therapist would ask a traumatized person to name their aggressor. You're supposed to be conduit and ping pong off of what the person is feeling and help them see the solutions and ways to be better that they already know in their heart but don't really have the strength or can't see how to follow through. If the person is not capable of naming their aggressor, it is for a reason and if they need to leave it as an unnamed entity/metaphor it's significant and should be respected. You should never forced that it can be hugely counter-productive. The patient will put their defensive mechanism, see you as their enemy might even associate you to the "neglect of their wishes" that their aggressor had against them and will not come to see you and talk to you again.
Sure he's guidance counselor and he might have an indirect responsibility toward other students to report the rapist and avoid repeat incident but still in crisis situation he should focus only on the smaller picture and the individual in this situation. Like yeah that was weird of her to blame him for not pursuing her but she's a traumatized kid struggling with mental illness. He's a grown ass man with training. Regardless of knowing if she was suicidal or not, rape especially on teenagers is a traumatic experience that required a follow up. I'm pretty sure guidance counselor are required of follow ups on kids who get bullied. Being raped is way more traumatic. That's common sense to literally everyone even "not guidance counselor".
There is a great film that show the positive effects of therapy. It´s called Ordinary People
13rw: "Can I copy your home work"
Riverdale: " Okay but make sure you change up the words"
Apparently Dylan Minnette who plays Clay's been cast in Scream 5. So my headcanon now is that Clay finally completely lost his mind, killed the girlfriend he gets at the end of Season 4, moved to Woodsboro and became a Ghostface killer.
The 2 funniest parts of the show
1: during Clay's speech when he said that school was life or death. Bruh its school.
2:"I shit the bed"
at inner city schools in lower class neighborhoods with lower-middle class kids of color it IS life or death (just saying) when he said that it resonated with me and my high school experience
Azell Aneya // i can agree in that aspect but his school seems pretty privileged.
3: "The year is 2161"
It's also about the bullying. Some don't survive, some do.
Lmfao "I shit the bed."
I don't watch this show, so can someone tell me: does this school get media attention? Because IRL, Dateline, Netflix, etc. would be making documentaries about this high school full of rich kids murdering one another or killing themselves, not to mention rapes, assaults, protests and terrorist incidents.
Nope. Everything happens in the bubble of their city.
Someone should make a documentary of how Dangerous this show was.
Not to mention the class action lawsuit that would come from releasing the cops on a bunch of rich white suburban kids. Like half these kids parents are probably lawyers.
@@1997residente Yes. The mental health professional who worked on the show and were ignored need to put their testimonies out there.
Considering it’s a school full of white kids yeah the lack of media attention is surprising.
If it was a majority minority school I would not be surprised considering some shit has gone down in my area that hasn’t gone national. We just went national once for what was very obviously a hate crime but the mostly white jury didn’t get the dude on the hate part.
Not gonna lie, I kinda cackled when the car flipped off that embankment. It was such a goofy shot for that scene
yeah the cgi was straight taken out of a cartoon. the only thing missing would have been a distinkt super mario "Boing"
Anyone else think Clays therapist was a figment of his mind helping him cope and that he actually wasn't seeing a therapist
I didn’t even know they had a season 4 until I went into Netflix yesterday
It dropped last Friday and got drowned out with everything happening in the world. It was out of trending within 3 hours I think
@@AmandaTheJedi damn, it hasn't released in my region yet wanted to roast the show
This story could have easily fit a two hour movie
The entire show could have just been left on the cutting room floor.
Originally it was supposed to be a movie with Selena Gomez as Hannah Baker. But somehow this shit show happened.
Should’ve stayed in the drafts
it's like they took the first six seasons of Degrassi put them in a blender and hit FRAPE
Actually, given the show, take away the F and it's more accurate.
Can we talk about the INSANE car accident that everyone walked away not disfigured from???
The school shooter episode was episode was ENTIRELY ridiculous and unethical. No high school in America would do a surprise school shooter drill with realistic gun shots and ppl trying to kick down the door.
13RW is the second show I've seen have a storyline with it. New Amsterdam was the first and it basically had this little girl see a psychiatrist because her parents thought she was losing it since she spoke of a school shooting at her school but her parents hadn't known of one. It was revealed that her school, a middle school for goodness sake, did a drill and actually took it a step further than 13RW but I digress. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if something like that has happened in America but it's extremely unrealistic for such a thing to happen in California, with the explanation being that the school was following a law put in place.
I get that /most/ schools would never do this but I have heard about it being a real thing IRL before, so that’s probably how they got the idea 🙄
anon there’s no way school administrators would approve of gun shots in the school around minors. That’s just unethical. I would understand an simulation where they are aware of the situation and they know it’s not real but having kids think they are really in danger and their lives on the line is something that would not happen
anon // do you how many people who get serious trauma from that? and i’ve never heard of any schools doing shooter drills with gun shots.
@@abosaurus where on earth did you hear about that? lol
Dylan Minnette is completely wasted on this show. Glad it's over and he can work on something else.
I've been saying this for so long. He actually was quite good in s1. But after that, they gave him nothing to work with since they didn't have a book to adapt anymore.
now he can finally give all his attention to wallows
@@natalie5285 love their music.
Badzi Dylan said it himself that season 4 was difficult to film so at least that made him a better actor. In my opinion he did great. But I’m no film major
everyone in the show was talented. too bad they had to waste their talents on this dumpster fire of a show
"This boy needs SO MUCH HELP"
T H A N K Y O U
Honestly as someone that is suicidal, watching that scene in the middle of the night - I watched the show as soon as it premiered and binged the whole thing in ten straight hours - was awful and it made me really, well not good. So I wished they had learned from all the chaos that the scene - and the two rape ones they also showed - brought people that they claimed the show was partially for and did better... I refused to watch the other seasons but just seeing channels I'm subscribed to talk about them makes me feel kinda weird.
Hey I hope you're doing okay right now, please reach out to friends, family, or professionals if you're ever feeling particularly rough. I do believe there's a lot in life worth living for
@@AmandaTheJedi I am actually, therapy and meds work and also having a strong foundation. Just really wanted to give the optics of someone that goes to the struggles they claim to want to talk about about and how the way they go about it doesn't actually help. Anyway, thanks for the video and the answer! Have a good night
Luiza Neves Lima hope you doing well :)
I'd say life is worth living but most the time it isn't. Glad you're doing well though.
I still believe that the series should have ended with clay in a mental hospital working on his health after J's death.
The fact that all these things happen in such a small town is insane.
Can't imagine what losing so many people does to someone.
Edit: I also want to add that no one getting zach help for what is clearly becoming an alcoholic addiction is sick.
I genuinely thought Clay would be in a mental facility at the end too, like he should be, and getting help. But his issues were pretty much dismissed and no mention of medication from the psychiatrist whatsoever.
@@jagged-panda Its like they wanted to bring the issue to light, but they dont know how to correctly deal with the issues
Man, for a show that is supposed to be “drawing attention to real problems” they sure do LOVE triggering the CRAP out of actual victims. Let’s be honest, people getting raped in school bathrooms doesn’t happen very often. We don’t need to “draw attention to it”. That scene was, however, super triggering and I could no longer watch the show after seeing it.
The showrunners went to some awful schools if people getting sodomised with mops was a regular thing for them that's all I can say. And like you say the showrunners claim to be aiming at people going through some of the same things the characters do but then they portray what they're going through wrong or traumatise people watching who have gone through it.
Even if the population is small, look what happened after Saving Private Ryan was released. Yes it's an exceptional movie, but after it was released it was followed by an increase in veteran suicides due to how incredibly realistic the beach scene was. However, they handled the PSTD correctly and how unavailable mental health resources were to veterans.
I see why they'd have someone go through that, not necessarily in a school bathroom, but of course they handled it like shit.
I remember back when I was still in school and people were binging this shit people started talking like they understand things now and, honestly, this show just made the stigma much worse.
I was annoyed by Clay the entire season.
Omg same. Completely lost his shit so annoying
SAME. god he was so mean to justin
Exactly
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one!!
I feel like if they had clay kill himself as the finale, it would have successfully shown how suicide can affect those around you, especially since they’ve put so much emphasis on how jaded and broken he’s become. Still a shitty show but they definitely could’ve found a way to fix it
Despite how cheesey it would have been, I wanted that ending.The show could have ended with Clay shooting himself in the police station. I was waiting for it but ... yeah.
I wished the ending of them burying the tapes and going off to follow their dreams were revealed to be daydreams in jail or psych ward, or punished for something they did. Why do they expect us to root for them to have a normal life after all of that? What they did was still illegal and they can't credit themselves as a 'realistic' and 'raw' show when they don't have any real consequences.
Karleigh Bennett yeah but the therapist was a joke, the licensed psychologist didn’t even put him in a psych ward immediately after he exhibited highly noticeable symptoms. He was a danger to himself and others, he really needed help.
I was waiting for that to happen.
That's kind of how I saw it too. Like the show coming full circle.
Dylan Minnette is such a good actor, he was snubbed for award recognition for the first season, but they annihilated his character. This show is one of the worst teen shows ever made.
There’s actual studies showing the drastic spike in teen suicide after the release of the show 😬
God this makes me mad
@@ninavandenabbeele9667 Amanda made a good video on this
This makes me so unbelievably angry
I felt like it was building up to him with dissociative identity disorder. There was even a moment where someone said “this isn’t you” and Clay said “I know, it isn’t” or something. Gaps in memory, a recent trauma to trigger it, panic attacks at a young age (indicating some possible trauma at a young age), talking to other people in his head, etc
I still think Degrassi did a better job.
Never seen Degrassi, but there is a Uk show called Skins and it's way better than this. except series 5 and 6 they suck lol.
@@Lavlufhf1-13-26 is there more seasons of skins ? And do u recomend it?
@@tatjanaknezevic2524 There's a season 7 and an American version of the show that only lasted one season I wouldn't recommend the latter but I like season 7.
this review covers every single problem I had. even about previous seasons. love it. subscribed
And I still left some stuff out, like they have Zach almost take advantage of a girl way too drunk to consent which I don't know if that was supposed to be his 'wake up' call, then he gets into college for music at the last second. But he only stopped because alex and charlie walked in, Monty's sister has no impact on the show whatsoever and isn't used well at all... so much wrong.
Amanda the Jedi or how Tony and Alex gave the principal pictures of photos Tyler had in his bag during the drill and expressed fear that their friend could potentially be a school shooter and the school took no steps to intervene or figure out why they were scared. It was a mess of a season
@@k.miranda4667 Yep! And some people will defend the whole thing. I don't care if people enjoy it for what it is, but it jumped the shark on mental health awareness and accountability a LONG time ago.
Amanda the Jedi yeah this was a once season show even Katherine Langford said it. Always trying to up the shock factor and outrage made it way to tense and unrealistic as hell. It went from eye opening teen drama to soap opera. Glad u see it
I still suffer from depression but I'm no longer what I refer to as "actively suicidal" and every time I hear a story of someone taking their own life it just hits me that much harder and reminds me of why I'm still here, knowing that the emotional pain I might be feeling is nowhere near the anguish my loved ones would feel if I took my own life. my best friend's best man at his wedding ended up taking his own life and it was GUT WRENCHING, especially because I remember his sense of humour, how much his speech made me laugh, and to think that someone who could bring such joy is gone hurts me to this day
I'm glad you're better now and I'm sorry for your loss. He sounds like a very joyful person.
I can’t believe they never showed clay properly getting help, like I thought that was the message of the show all along
This show would be...fine, if they just advertised it as a "shocking" teen drama, but advertising it as an important show that people need to watch, is highly harmful. This show seriously hurt Netflix's image for me.
I never watched 13 reason why on netflix, I just read the book (so i know the content of the first season). I really hate the book because I was struggling with mental health problems myself and the way the author portrays Hannah's problems was just so dumb. Hannah was a typical teen girl written by a male author, there was no real depth on what mental health problem she had or any evidence that she suffered from depression. It was just like: yeah, they laughed at my ass, guess I will die.
The reasons she commit suicide were more revenge than really suffering. The book indicates that suicide is a good option if you want people to feel bad about what they have done to you. And this is not okay! Nobody kills themself because they want revenge!
And blaming all the people that they are the reason why she isn't alive anymore is just so wrong. Especially if the reasons are something like: You went away after I told you to leave, how dare you!
I can name so many reason why I hate the book, but nobody cares.
Edit: typo
Took the words straight out of my mouth. I felt exactly the same way when I read the book. Everything was too romanticized, and there were so many moments where it just screamed "written by a straight white man" through and through. Felt more like what ""normal"" people think being mentally ill is like than the actual (and painful) reality of it.
ironically, the author of the book was accused of sexual assault.
@@alex_n215 Holy shit, really?
and the author gave hannah _no_ personality except the fact that she was depressed. i agree with you completely that her suicide, especially the tapes ("if you are listening to this, you are one of the reasons why") seemed more like revenge than anything else. this creates a twisted view - especially in teens who are easily influenced - and spreads misinformation about mental illness by almost making it seem like it's an act of revenge, which it's not.
in fact, now that i think of it, i don't think any of the characters had any personality except the shit they went through. for example, alex was the one who tried killing himself at the end of s1, jessica is the sexual abuse victim etc. the book and the show portray teenagers and mental illness in such an unrealistic way that i struggled to get through the book, and stopped watching the show after a few episodes.
another problem i had with the show, especially, was that clay had a 'if i knew i could have saved you' mentality. i don't know if its just me, and please correct me if i am wrong, but to me it seemed like he truly believed if he had known beforehand that hannah was suicidal, he could have loved her and made her better. and i don't mean in a 'i'll listen to you when you need and i'll encourage you to seek therapy' way. rather in a 'i loved you. if only i would have told you that when you were alive, you wouldn't be dead', way. or perhaps that's just me
and these are only a few problems i have with this show. sorry for the long essay.
@@alex_n215 shit, really? was any action taken against him?
Can we talk about Alex for a second, completely Turing him gay so he can spend time with creepy James Franco who won’t turn him in becuae they feel in love, like wtf
Stark_Syndrome yeah like they didn’t even allude to it in the first two seasons. I’m fact, he literally had SEX. MULTIPLE TIMES. Like, does that make sense? At all???
Him choosing Jessica over Hannah was part or why she killed herself. Making him gay made no sense to the plot.
actually revealing that alex was bisexual was actually one of the very few good aspects of the show. we already knew he wasn't straight from season 1, and it's already foreshadowed throughout the series (like how he got a boner when he had a fight with zach in the locker room), so it's a good way to portray a character that had recently come to terms with their sexuality only later on in life.
season 3 could’ve been about alex discovering his sexuality. especially after that scene with zach in the locker room. wasted opportunity. now it just looks like they jammed it in to one season.
I mean, bisexuality exists??? He never says he's gay. Also chances are he was pretty closeted hence the no alluding to it earlier in the series (other than the boner he gets hugging zach), like he mentions that part of the reason he made friends with Bryce and the jocks was because his father kept thinking/implying he was gay because of whatever. Presumably his suicide attempt made his father more sympathetic.
Now, I still think it was kinda lazy writing, and I really, really don't know how I feel about his relationship with Charlie, because I like Charlie but it just doesn't seem like Alex really wants to be in a relationship with him? LIke charlie keeps pestering him in increasingly over the top ways, and alex just seems so apathetic
13 reasons were trying to compete with riverdale for worse school ever
you forgot to mention that part when in the beginning of an episode, clay dreams about some apocalypse where everyone is fighting to survive or something (???)
I am so sick of people trying to represent issues with good intentions and no research or common sense or tact. Like, does no one think to consult a psychologist on a manuscript or script, and actually listen to what they say?
Yeah right? The thing that really rubs me the wrong way is they did hire psychologists and then just ignored their advice.
@@chelsie2767 I know!! I can think of lots of other examples of mental health issues/psychological disorders being misrepresented in books/shows/movies, and in a way I hate it most when they are clearly trying to raise awareness and yet put in no effort and spread misinformation instead.
Good intentions my friend? More like cash hunger. They don't give a shit about suicidal and depressive teens, not even in the lowest level of concern.
Fair point. At some point any good intentions that may or may not exist don't even matter if the product is awful.
The dead people reacting with Clay is actually a form of depression, at least from my point of view. There is a type of depression call Psychotic Depression, which is where someone with depression creates visions and has similar symptoms to schizophrenia. That's why Hannah, Bryce, and Monty can "interact" and "communicate" with Clay.
The dead people reacting to Clay is actually a case of bad writing disease.
Lacilynn Graham ofc it exists, but was it well done? Did they call it psychotic depression? I haven't actually watched it so idk but they probably didn't
It's possible. I'm not a professional but within the past year I've done a bunch of research into hallucinations and psychosis. There seem to be a lot of reasons people would have hallucinations or psychosis. I've read a bit about schizophrenia, major depression with psychotic features (aka psychotic depression), brain injuries, PTSD, personality disorders like bipolar and BPD, epilepsy and the list goes on.
Honestly I think they might have started off as ghosts and then the writers changed their mind about it for some reason. I've seen this ghost thing in multiple shows although the only one I can think of right now is Greys Anatomy.
They got up to four seasons?! Just keep digging that hole, Netflix.
at least it’s over now
They cancelled One day at a time for this tripe? And after giving it a 3rd season gave this tripe a 4th, and thankfully, final season.
“4 Seasons? Why?”
"Pulled a Ginny Weasley" lol that tickled me
What I hated the most, even with all the unrealistic moments, is no one ..not a single person tried to help Clay when he was clearly acting weird. The sole fact that even after prom night, Jessica was still dating that douche and acts likes nothing happened is sooo frustrating.
They didn't help any of those kids... Hell I called Monty being abused and closeted from the moment I saw him and especially after the tyler incident him talking to him it wasn't just his dad beating him.... Justin until he ran away like wtf y'all suspect abuse but did f*ck all about it?
8:08 Clay trying to pull a Carrie.
🤣
I'm schizophrenic and I have no plans to watch this show, let alone the final few seasons. Ham-fisted execution will always turn the audience off, especially if the source material is dealing with a sensitive subject like mental illness.
good luck and take care man. My friend suffers schizophrenia. It´s really insulting how mental illness is portrayed in shows and movies.
Exactly the reason I didn't watch the first season when it got out as a "just recently got out of depression and used to be suicidal" person. I could tell just from the trailer this show was not actually about helping suicidal people but about sensibilizing non-suicidal people to the struggle of depression and being suicidal and why the fuck would I want to make myself go through that. People keep saying they had good intention but it really seem to me like they just wanted to make bank off of the back of people struggling with mental illness. It seemed exploitative from the start the way the show pretended to cater to us when they didn't care about giving help and hope.
Maybe next time they shouldn’t hire hacks to write on serious issues.
Or actually listen to the professionals who they consulted with
I don't really think they cared.
If you watched American Dad, you'd know that being drunk makes you impervious to harm from sudden impacts such as car crashes and leaping off of buildings.
"What about the people in the other car?"
"They're dead. Damn fool was driving stone sober."
I can't even get through the first episode after seeing Jessica hallucinate Bryce. As you said, hallucinations are very rare. I would've been very happy and relieved if they gave Clay a diagnosis of schizophrenia which is what his symptoms seem to exhibit, but because so many of the kids are "seeing" ghosts, it seems an attempt to negate the severity of Clay's auditory and visual hallucinations. As someone who experienced PTSD symptoms for many years (and still has dregs), I find this latest season even more disruptive/disturbing than other ones. The loud banging from Monty hitting Clay's car was so triggering I felt a little panick-y. So, I had to stop the episode there the first time I tried to watch. The world of Thirteen Seasons Why is traumatizing/traumatized enough with hyping the dramatics. Disappointed by the writers. I won't be finishing this season. I also heard how Justin's arc ended, which I think is utter BS. Thank you for your video and voice of reason in what has become a reason-less show.
This show was a mess. They should've stopped at S1 If they weren't going to handle issues properly 😭
no 4 seasons was perfect,there was no way it could have ended in season 1
If they were trying to follow the book, it would have ended at season 1 a long time ago. But they didn’t and they add their own spin to it
EXACTLY
@@jannievanderwalt6696 The review scores kinda say it all. S1 was received fairly well but every season after that was panned.
u tell em
Clay’s Smile is the best part of the whole damn Show.
We all knew it was downhill from season 2. But I'm still surprised they fucked up this badly.
i think clay didnt lie when he said he didn't smoke any weed, it was those cookies that guy was passing around on the camping trip.
I thought they would turn it into someone poisoning Clay with hallucinogenics (not weed, obviously, but maybe something what would false register as that?), but nah, "I just think about dead people".
@@mar6488 I still think Pretty Much It's Scarecrow theory isn't that far off, given the hallucinations everyone was having during the camping episode.
At the beginning of Season 4, I got my hopes up that Zach would have a strong arc this season.
One of the more powerful things for me in the book (it is mentioned a tad in the first season) is how Clay recaps Hannah's behaviors and mannerisms on her last few days. She was somewhat social again, she was giving her items away to others, and no longer cared about her grades.
I thought Ross Butler did a fine performance, don't get me wrong, but the whole season, I was like... "Um... Zach is throwing his entire life away and is clearly showing self-destructive signs of a potentially suicidal person." He no longer cared about school, he was drunk all of the time, he was going off alone and doing wreckless things with Alex. He even took the blame for Bryce's murder just so Diego would beat him down (note that he didn't even fight back).
I watched reactions and almost every person just would chuckle and go "Ah, Zach..." But I was genuinely concerned for this kid. I'm disappointed that he didn't get a proper resolution because especially with Justin's death, his turn around could have had more of a impact if done right.
EDIT: Also, it bugged me personally how the kids had their phones during the "shooting" and they were only used to say goodbye to their parents, considering they obviously didn't know it was just a drill. Jessica, Monty's sister, etc. The whole time, I just was thinking... "You aren't going to take this time to call the police first and THEN reach out to your parents?"
... the amount of lawsuits any high school would get for pulling that kind of thing... I do want to apologize if anyone reads this and HAS gone through a "safety drill" such as portrayed in the show.
even in the 90s when my heroin addicted uncle got aids it took YEARS for him to die, literally 6 years, like i didnt expect much but holy shit
I honestly forgot that there was a season 3. I remember seeing the trailers and just couldn't, it's unnecessary, so I erased it from my memory
I couldn’t forget since they cancelled One Day at a Time for this show, and left the fanbase desperate for good news, (which we got, in the form of it being picked up by a network.)
As someone with bad anxiety, hallucinations isn't really a thing
I get anxiety and the most I get is things looking like they move out the corner of my eye but that can be scientifically explained.
Agreed, it's highly likely that Clay is suffering from undiagnosed schizophrenia, in that he sees Hannah, Bryce and Monty's ghosts, and even has full on conversations with them. But most schizophrenics experience auditory hallucinations, and not visual ones.
Trina Q in the show it explains that they aren’t really hallucinations. They’re basically his imagination giving him a physical representation of what he believes conservations would be like with them.
In most cases, a psychological condition will remain at auditory hallucinations. Severe PTSD has a rare chance of visual, but that usually happens during visual stimuli that simulate the person's trauma. Physiological problems, however, can cause false visual stimuli resulting in visual hallucinations. This is why parasomniacs can have "waking dreams"; lack of sleep does this too.
Additionally, it's very rare for visual hallucinations to be full-on people. Usually it's things like shadows or lights where there are none.
The magnitude of the problem that character is facing would have been found already.
@@trinaq If that had been a plot point they comitted to, it might´ve actually worked.
Like, have Clay get worse and then people around him _notice_ and get him to therapy, perhaps put him in a mental hospital where he can deal with all the shit he`s been through.
Might´ve been a decent plot for the second season or heck, the third.
But, no. We gotta redeem the rapist. I wonder who that idea tested well with.
After all that, I'm surprised that no one has moved out of that school.
With the amount of stuff that happens in that town I'm convinced the whole place is cursed.
@@Xehanort10 It's *gotta* be an SCP. I'm not accepting any other answers because I REFUSE to think of the possibility that this town *isn't* being monitored by some secret agency.
I especially hate how they push the notion that this storyline is totally normal and happens all the time and sOcIEtY neEdS tO cHaNGe.
@@TheBonkleFox Either that or it's on a Hellmouth like Sunnydale in Buffy.
@@TheBonkleFox In the words of Crazy Ralph from the first 2 Friday the 13th films "It's got a death curse."
Omg, I need that "I shlt the bed" scene in isolation that delivery is incredible
Omg im so glad you mentioned clay walking around in poopy pants that whole day
At this point it would have made more sense If they would say that the people who died were really ghosts
like he's psychic or something and acting as an unconscious medium. would've made just as much sense
That works, especially since both Alex and Jessica have visions of Bryce in the same damn episode, The Haunted Forest Episode.
Amanda's face when she says "fOr ThE sAkE oF dIsCuSsIoN" was amazing hahaha
In a distant future,Netflix will be remembered for:
-Orange is the new Black
-Stranger Things
-Roma
-The irishman
-Marriage Story
-Da 5 Blood
-13 Reasons why
OITNB
Don’t forget Bojack Horseman. A show that depicts mental health with great accuracy
The Umbrella Academy?
Don't forget the classic insanity of Love is Blind.
You? Haunting of Hill House? Dead to Me? Elite?
the fact that Clay was literally hallucinating/dissociating for half the season and nobody, not even his fucking THERAPIST even MENTIONED that maybe hey, Clay, you know, maybe we should be giving you MEDICATION like an actual DOCTOR would do for these situations instead of just letting you do fuck all and allowing your mental state to get worse just drove me insane. Literally every single episode as things got worse and worse I just said, "can we PLEASE medicate Clay now? PLEASE?!" and the only conceivable explanation I can come up with for why they DIDN'T medicate Clay was they needed all of the bullshit Clay does for the plot.
they ruined zach and the chance of alex and zack having a relationship.
did everyone on this show need to be gay?
@@Not_Always did i say that? No. Get out weirdo
At this point, 13 Reasons Why is just a poorly written Evangelion
it's sad because the book is actually well written. It's not dragging the story and the shock value is far different. They made a well-written book into a horribly written show.
@@anushrees4981 yes!! I loved the book!
Even that's giving it too much credit lbr
@@thehearthotel lmao you're right
@@anushrees4981 eh, the book was kinda shallow and unrealistic. But compared to the show, the book was a dream
Honestly instead of milking this they should of just tossed money at show they axed too soon like Santa Clarita Diet.
Or American Vandal
Didn’t that show got canceled cuz of the ratings?💀 I didn’t watch it. Welll the first episode and forgot about it💀 it was good tho
One day at a time.. Anne with an E.
Or any of the marvel Netflix shows.
i miss the get down :/
I feel as if they wanted to back up that Montgomery had a sister, they shouldve shown flashbacks.
They just hamfisted it in S4 we didn't even know her
@@Fletchayabetcha I know that's what I'm talking about, she just swooped in when she werent mention no where.
@@Fletchayabetcha She was the Ani of the 4th season. A character only introduced that season but treated like she's been there the whole time.
Winston, Diego and Estela were all missed opportunities. With Estela they could have done a storyline where she is bullied because of who her brother was (rapist and murderer of Bryce (thought by the school). She could have been active with Winston in the investigation. But no she was just quiet, without having any purpose.
Also... Is that girl ok?? If I remember correctly, Monty lived in a dangerous neighbourhood with a dangerous father.. he was abusive and an alcoholic I think... But that girl seems to be super shiny!
Thank you for making this video! You perfectly tackled every issue I found in the new season. Thanks for taking the time to compile all the chaos and make it so much easier to understand
Thank you for talking about how odd it was that Clay was able to escape the psych ward! That is probably the biggest issue I had with Clay’s mental health storyline!
13:23 Bryce "Jason Voorhees" Walker everybody.
Why did Zach start drinking so much this season? Like what happened to him? Don't think season 3 affected him too too muck
When Bryce broke his leg he loat his whole future he can no longer get a sport scholarship and this depressing circumstance makes his school career spiral and his emotional circumstamce spiral
3:07 Exactly. Hallucinations are images in the minds of insane people that they project into the real world. But instead of making clear that the "Hannah" Clay was seeing was a product of his traumatised mind they act like she's a ghost haunting him. At least in stuff like Dexter the Harry hallucination represents the rational part of Dexter's mind that follows his dead adoptive dad's code. And the Joker hallucination in Batman Arkham Knight created by a combination of Scarecrow's fear gas and Batman being infected with Joker's blood in Arkham City is shown to be saying what Batman's thinking and it's basically Batman imagining how Joker would react to certain situations if he was alive.
I agree with the fact that the show should’ve handle their portrayal of hallucinations better. That being said, please do more research on hallucinations and how they function. They are not the construct of people who are crazy, there are multiple types and causes of hallucinations, and associating hallucinations with people who are insane can be incredibly harmful.
I’m sorry if I misinterpreted your comment especially since I agree with your stance, I just wanted to let you and others reading know that there’s more to hallucinations than people who are “insane.”
Thank you for comment and your time.
@@Notrandomatall Thinking back I shouldn't have added the insane part because there are people with PTSD for example who aren't insane but because they're traumatised they sometimes hallucinate along with thinking back to what happened to them.
Terms like "crazy" and "insane" can be offensive to the mentally ill (and it has been used to gaslight women).
“So not only is clay walking around with a poopy bum” PLSSSS 😭😭😭😭
Producers: how many current issues do you want in this show?
Brian Yorkey: yes
I read the book years before the show came out. The book was good. It wasn't about preventing suicide, it was just...a book. The show is awful, in my opinion. Way unnecessary to show an entire suicide from start to finish. Gave me a panic attack. Never watched any more of the show after that.
I bet a really unlikable character in Hannah Baker sharing your name didn't help matters either.
They actually edited the suicide scene out. It isn't there anymore.
Back when Season 1 came out they argued tooth and nail that it was necessary to show it, then after a couple years of mental health experts telling them it was a bad idea they quietly got rid of it.
I really loved season 1 - and the scene where Hannahs mother finds her in the bathtub broke me.
Then I really anticipated season 2, even though I thought a one season miniseries was enough.
Then season 2 came, and despite some interesting ideas it was all build up but no pay off, except for the shock value rape scene and almost school shooting that were left as built up for season 3.
I had then basically totally forgotten about the show until the trailer for season 3 came out last summer, and that´s where I saw that the show had basically become Riverdale but with better acting and pretentious writers.
I binged season 3 in two days and I was so fascinated by how bad it was - from the british Mary Sue narrator to the fact that the writers thought it was a good idea to show serial rapist Bryce in a good light o.O
And season 4 didnt know what it wanted to be, and despite the fact that I liked the final two scenes - them all burying Hannahs tapes and Clay leaving the town with Tony - it all just seemed so strange to think how it started out as a serious show about the suicide of a teenager then over the cause of 3 seasons became a run of the mill teen drama, but with "starting a conversation".
Is it better acted thoooo? 🤔
This girl looks like the weasley twins and I dont even mean that as an insult
I really, really liked the first season. I really appreciated the ugly, raw, honest way they depicted sexual assault and the fallout from it. I even used 13 reasons why to help people in my family understand how it actually feels going through the pain I went to. I hate it when shows subtly romanticize rape or it becomes a tape revenge story because that’s not the experience of people who are actually assaulted. There’s a scene where she has a panic attack in a changing room and that was a horribly painfully real thing to show.
And then it just kept getting worse and worse and more problematic and it went from being upsetting to insulting awhile ago
LMFAO I saved this video for when I finished the final season so I wouldn't be spoiled but ended up forgetting about this show for 3 whole years... time to watch ig😂
Clay is a danger to himself and OTHERS!! But hey, let's let him go to prom and graduate cos whatever...
Last time I was this early, the suicide scene from season 1 wasn't controversial.