Optimizing NDI for Video Production and Streaming
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- The Video industry is rapidly changing. One of the most exciting features is transporting video over TCP/IP networks. However, there are a lot of challenges in making this work well.
This video explores the changes from SDI/HDMI to NDI and how to optimize your TCP/IP network.
Part 2 explores NDI over wireless ... and the many more challenges this brings. 
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Beautifully clear explanation of things that can so often become garbled in transmission. Thank you!
Wow Martin!!! Bro no joke you are very very VERY easy to listen to, and when you go into your technical talk, I realize it's not even technical at all ESPECIALLY the way you present your entire show. I'm honestly amazed and SO thankful, I am looking into setting up a NDI based Video workflow for a Company I work for. Going to be integrating a Newtek TC1 Tricaster - mobile kit - also looking into running a full 4k NDI based video broadcast workflow for eSports based events. This information was very useful. Thank you again!
Very technical for a novice but very informative. I've been working with networks for a long time and still got a lot from this session. Thanks.
Amazing information Martin! I do hope to see more content from you! especially on how to setup QoS rules for networking.
I’m sorry that I’m late to class, but due to our current climate and needing to network and stream more than before, this was invaluable information and on time. Thank you.
All streamers should see this You have explained this very well and I have a better understanding of SDI/HDMI and my prosumer cameras
Thanks for making this video Martin. He has been very illuminating and instructive. Very helpful.
Great video, I think you need an updated version of this now that we are NDI immersed now. Especially on flow control etc.
Amazing video, great explanation and didactics. The ideas were very clear, organised and helpful.
This was very helpful, Thanks!
Very informative video. Learned a lot. Thank you.
Thank you very much for the video!
Great Video very detailed and informative.
Very good Video very detailed and informative.Pls keep sharing more info. best you...
Is good video, Thank You Martin
Thank you for making this video
Thank you!
Thank you Martin
Hi Martin, this was very helpful for understanding video over TCP/IP. When can we expect to see you talk about video and NDI over WiFi?
Hi Kyle. I'm planning on recording part 2 and maybe a part 3 by the end of Dec or early Jan. Thanks
Hi Martin, are these sequels out yet? Waiting, waiting...
thakns information
As a vMix user and working on some courses (also NDI) this is a very good explanation, and not only for IT people. Good job! Any switch recommendations (quality)?
That's a good question but not easy to answer. It really comes down to what you want to do with it. I usually look for at least the following in a switch to give me the most flexibility.
1) At least 24 port for a fixed install. Amazing how many ports you end up using. For a remote or mobile setup, 8-12 ports is usually sufficient.
2) Managed switch with full VLAN and QoS support. You may not need these features right away but they are sure nice when you do. Also, stats and trouble shooting tools are very helpful. Vendors sometimes sell "Smart managed" vs "Fully managed" switches with slightly less features but also less cost. These usually provide plenty of features unless you are really in a big network.
3. PoE with sufficient wattage if you need it. Keeps the number of power cables to a minimum.
4. Same brand if you are using multiple switches. This can really "bite" you when different vendors do slightly different things. Very difficult to trouble shoot!
5. Noise. Some switches, particularly PoE switches can make a lot of noise! They really shouldn't so make sure you test before you buy or have a good return policy.
Brands: Lots out there unfortunately. I've used a wide variety over the years and all brands can have issues sometimes. Netgear and D-Link mid range switches (and price point) have worked fairly well. At the high end, Cisco and HP but probably more then you need. I stay away from the no-name (no support) as much as possible :)
Any multicast requirements? Do I need to enable this on a switch? Any qos needed?
Very concise overview. Many thanks for demystifying the TCP/IP jungle. Little bit of history adds so much to the picture. One question.....at your church how do you cope with the inevitable latency associated with using vMix for IMAG? Our church is about to make a large investment in AV and currently looking at a 5k Roland VR-50 HD., Giving us a max of 4 switchable inputs and no NDI.
That a very good question and difficult to answer. For streaming, you have full control to add delay etc. For IMAG, you are at the mercy of what's happing on the stage and the audio. In a big venue is even more difficult because someone in front of the projectors will have a different experience then someone 150ft away.
You really need to understand each piece of equipment from camera all the way to the projectors. There is never zero latency so the task is to try to reduce it to below human perception. Our eyes and ears can start noticing latency of about 20ms but in most cases 100-200ms is still acceptable.
Every piece of the puzzle adds latency you want to remove anything that adds. The irony is that the least amount of latency was when we had analog cameras and switchers!!!. Tips to minimize latency on IMAG.
- SDI cameras and cables are better then HDMI. (HDMI is much more variable by vendor so this may or may not be an issue). Turn off additional processing like image stabilization.
- Use gen-lock if you have this ability.
- If you are planning or need to use NDI, use full NDI vs NDI-HX.
- No convertors. HDMI to SDI etc
- Clean feed. Make sure you are not changing resolutions, frame rates etc from camera to switcher etc.
- If you are using a computer based switcher, use high end GPU, disable EVERYTHING that is not necessary etc. On a proprietary switcher like the Roland. check the specs carefully.
- Use the main output as your feed to the projectors. GPU output 1 on a computer based system.
- If you are using a a multi-cast, splitters, etc to the projectors, make sure you invest in something with low latency
- Finally, the projectors are often the worst part of the path. Try to send a signal that is in the projectors native resolution. Otherwise the projectors up or down convert. Avoid things like keystone or other digital processing. Consider replacing the projectors if necessary.
It's usually never one item so it takes time and patience to test every item. In our setup, we are still working on it as well. Time and money or course :)
Yes I never really appreciated how much the projector can add to the latency if it is tasked with rescaling etc. Without real gen lock I think vMix struggles a bit with latency and I cannot really justify the expense of an av upgrade when all the congregation see is worse lipsync than before. I would be interested in the human response to your system when you are up and running. So in a nut shell would you say that you plan to use vMix for IMAG ?. Also does the reduced latency setting on vMix (when using Cuda cards with >3GB VRAM) actually do anything?? Thanks.
We already do. We have an Intel x99 system with a nVidia GTX1080 4Gb. vMix low latency input and GPU (> GB) turned on. It's does seem to make a difference but I have not measured it.
The feed from the cameras into vMix in nice and solid. Genlock would help of course. Our challenge is that our projectors are not native 1080p therefore they add latency. Because of the distance, we also distribute using a Blackbox multicast system which also adds. Regardless, although the IMAG latency is noticeable (especially to techies), we do not get many complaints. We will likely upgrade the projectors at some point.
Hi Martin, I'm sure you are already doing this but I just noticed a significant reduction in latency by enabling the Full Screen function in vMix and using the HDMI out of the graphics card as the main output. Previously I was using the SDI output on the Decklink Duo 2 and this was doubling the latency. The other way to reduce perceived latency of course is to sit at the back of the church as you touched on. The speed of sound means that for every 14 meters (46 feet) you sit away from the screen you reduce perceived latency by 1 frame (here in the UK @ 25FPS). Once I source a graphics card > 3GB I'm starting to think that vMix wont be the biggest culprit after all.
Totally agree on using the Full Screen and HDMI out on the graphics card. Makes a big difference.
Interested calcs on meters versus latency. I didn't know the values.
Thanks
Hello, Thanks for this vidéo, but i have a doubt, I would like to be reassured. If I take 3 cameras NDI | HX, that I connect them to a POE IP Switch, and that I connect my computer to this IP Switch too, it is really possible to have the 3 camera streams simultaneously on my Mixer software (OBS, Filmora, Tricaster or other ..)? ? While there is only one Ethernet cable between the Switch and the computer? If it works, is it possible to add a PTZ joystick controller on the Switch? And after connect the WLAN to internet modem for Live Stream.. ? It would be cool to have a video of wiring, or wiring diagram image.
Thanks God
You are just the best.you are the best.Are you a teacher by proffession.
No, but I teach a fair amount of technical classes. Thanks for your comments!
Friend you can teach how I install newtek NDI on IPHONE, because I can not. thank you
There's a few paid apps you can install.. search newtek in the appstore or mark gilbert
Hi, pretty cool video BTW, I want to output my production wirelessly to my android tablet, and use it to monitor my production via streaming locally in my tablet, is that possible? Thanks in advance
is this still an issue, i think i have a solution
@@wonabehey, I found a solution but it may not be the best, it would be nice to hear your idea.
@@carluig Would you mind contacting me on my instagram @wonabe ? Would be easyer for me to send you links and photos there to explain. RUclips comments isn't the best place for sharing links. For the sake of other viewers i will reply here too. There's a number of applications to monitor your NDI sources in the network, beside just "watching the stream" itself. I would need to ask you few questions too about the way your production is set up to be more specific and relevant to your issue. Have a good day.
You mean newer cameras are made with ethernet ports right?
I am not sure what happen, but since then the NDI tools does not work. If you found out how to make it work please let me know...
Heloo mr can have contact pls
Audio too low sometimes and he's mumbling the words which makes it hard to understand
Hi
Y Kay hai
Great info but speak up! lol
Please edit you lip smacks out of you video.