Thanks for telling us the pros and cons. It answered a lot of questions for me. My questions were: 1. Should I use the reverb in my synth versus on the channel? 2. What is are the advantages of the reverb on the channel? 3. What are the advantages or reverb as a send? I understand better now and I believe that I can put it to work in my advantage on my mixes instead of being in mixing hell (It's a real place and lots of us have been there for days or more at a time...) You also answered my question of reverb as a room! Thank you!
This guy seems to always cut right to the heart of what I’m trying to figure out, without coddling his viewers but also not assuming they know anything. My confusion is gone!
Great explanation, but I don't think the cons you mentioned for using return tracks really exist. Just set the return track to "pre" instead of "post fader" and you pretty much get separate volume faders for the full dry signal and the full return signal :)
@@boymatmat In session view the option is on the master channel right above the fader. By default there are two yellow buttons with the text "Post" on it and when you click it, it changes to "Pre"
@Z M When changing the return track to "Pre", it ignores the output level (of the audio or midi track) you set with your fader. Let's say that you have an instrument on your midi track with the send amount set to 100% but the volume fader is turned all the way down. When the return track is set to "Post" you would not be able to hear anything but switching it to "Pre" ignores the fader position of your midi track and produces always 100% of the FX sound. I hope this clarifies it for you. Just try it for your self :)
@@fernandojaviermanqueo5890 Yes, it will always be affected. The signal flow of a midi channel is: Instrument -> FX -> Fader -> Master. The signal you can send to a return track is either taken from before the fader (pre) or after (post)
no Zen my man, the pro solution is DO BOTH SAME TIME ! in Hardstyle pros put lead reverb on a bus to have it separate and can SC duck it from the lead group etc but also routing both together to another bus to OTT / compress them together for a better more glued sound in Ableton you just do that with an effectrack on the lead group with effects in parallel chains and add ott/compression afterwards and this is the best result you can get, better than returns and simple inserts !
Logic x reverbs and delays, instead of having a 0-100% dry to wet, have two sliders one for dry signal and one for wet, this allows you to place the verb on the channel output but have the benefit of much more control
Great channel. I have subscribed. Only suggestion is to talk about 5%slower. I'm a native english speaker and I am struggling to keep up with everything you say.
I think recording the full wet reverb onto an audio track has the benefits of both methods. Works well with delay too, means you can easily make polyrhythms with the delay by having two different ones play together
Dude i was like asking myself exactly that question, and then searched for youtube and landen on this video. and it was so informative that i cant even explain. so straight-forwoward yet covers everything that i was curious about and more. Thank you so much!
Solid vid! Just wanted to add that you can still use a reverb send to add depth/space in the way you are describing is possible only when it's on the channel if your DAW lets you send to an aux at positive DB values (for example in REAPER you can send audio to an aux send at +5db if you want) so by balancing the send level and the track volume, you can effectively get the equivalent of a wet/dry this way, having the best of both worlds
Mate thank you so much ! I learnt the return reverb tips in KSHMR tutorials years ago but get hard to find out really when to properly use it ! You finally gave me the right answer to this ! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Can't wait to watch the video fully.. Can anyone also tell me the song playing on the background ( I know it's Zen's song and he did some kinda preview of it in one video) but I can't remember it.. Thanks guys and thanks for the great tutorials Zen!
both. If on a certain track I want to add a specific reverb trick, to further add to the sound to try and alter it like crazy I will probably use an insert reverb, however, If I am just trying to get a sound in a space I will use a return channal.
I've been using returns mostly, but I'm ending up with lots of dry signal. Adding a small room reverb to certain tracks softens the dry signal a bit without causing too much extra noise. Then use your sends to craft the whole thing together and create one big space for it all to bounce around in and blend together.
if you have ableton and pc that has a lot of cpu power, try this: use a reverb in a effect rack with one dry and one wet signal. so you can process both signals the way you want or even after the effect rack all thogeter (eq, ott, glue it together). the main thing i thougt you could'nt do was having two different sources in THIS exact same space ('cause of the effectrack). but you can copy and past this reverb on a other channel in a effect rack and there you go. it sounds exact the same as if you would use just one reverb for 2 sources. further you can process this even better, so you can try to have a delay in front of the reverb in one of the two effect racks so you create a sense of more depth and seperation of this two sources in this same space. hope it makes kinda sense lol
Zen baby always with the goods, even though I knew this already, your tip on sending multiple instruments to the same return reverb to put all your leads in the same space, that was a little tip I forgot! Thanks bby
Hello Zen. In Caustic 3 (Android DAW), there is a reverb and a delay in the master section, whereas I thought it's for reverbing and delaying the master. Now I previously knew, that that is used as a return when I looked at the mixer: There is a reverb and delay knob.
It is similar but not the same. Let's say you have a group of 3 Lead sounds and you put the audio effect chain on the group. Now u it's like sending a lead to the return. You keep your dry signal as "powerful" as before and mix in that wet signal (so pretty much the same as sending it on the return channel). The difference is though that the 3 Lead sounds are all treated as one. In case of the return channel you can decide how much of each Lead sound should be send to the return. In order to do that with the audio effect chain you'd need 3 of them. Again here it depends on the situation what method you use.
What do you mean by return? You are "sending" the audio from the main channel to the "send" (wet reverb channel) and you are blending it in with the main channel. The verb send is usually routed to the mix bus. Where are you getting "return" from? The reverb is not returning back to the main track. Its going to the 2 bus or a sub mix aux channel (in this case leads). I'm confused about the term "returns".
First off, there is no negative to using a send, around 3:50 “harder to lay in the mix if you want atmosphere” all you do is use a gain plugin or lower the dry signal and leave the wet signal up.
Hello! Thanks for the video! I have one question: You are about to record some vocals and you have some vocal tracks (lead vocals and vocal layers) that require the same default plugins to get started. For example, you might have a standardized plugin chain like EQ, DeEsser, Compressor, Saturator, Reverb and Delay with default settings for every vocal track you produce. To save CPU, instead of inserting this plugin chain in each vocal track, people usually suggest using a Return track and inserting the plugin chain there. Then, it's advised to increase the Send level of the vocal tracks to let the audio pass through the Return track and then to the Master. However, unless the output of the vocal tracks changes from Master to Send Only, you will have double audio going through the master (the audio from the vocal tracks and the return track). You could also group the vocals and send them to the return track, which leads to the same issue but with less flexibility in the individual tracks. My question is what is the best practice in the above example, considering the need for further effects per track down the road, as well as gain staging and mixing overall? Thank you!
Return track way and you would run reverb at 100% in the return track that way it doesn’t double! Remember the reverb is a new sound created by vocal. If you put it in individual vocals then 20% is fine but not on the returns does that make sene
Is it the same to use an effect rack with the dry/wet chain (and play with the volumes) than using returns? So u can also process the wet signal by itself in the wet chain
HI Zen, hey how many reverbs do you use on a busy EDM track and what is your go to decay time for the synths ? Also do you have a separate reverb for percussion? and what is its decay time? Thanks! do you put any reverb on your bass , drum kick hihats? etc
Can you make a video about automation and how to use it for drops? I am learning tech house and find it difficult to create an intense and suspenseful drop, it just seems repetitive.
Nice,better than your Tech bass tutorials ! You should challenge yourself on how to get that REAL tech bass sound nailed by dudes like Fisher etc.. and try to forget Serum sometimes...A guy like Shiban san example use Monark to make his basses,you can tweak Serum for 10 years you'll never get his sound by using it ,use headphones when you're working on processing !
Question TO ZEN WORld Hey man i am still in doubt a lil but. When we route the channel to the reverb send then do the send just gives out the reverb or reverb + dry signal
If you guys want to see how important it is to not overdue reverb on your track check out this video by Jon Sine ruclips.net/video/qlo9UPlHqsE/видео.html , i feel like itll help yall see the difference, but of course it depends on the type of genre of music your making. It should still help though nonetheless! Great video Zen thank you for helping us on these little tips! 🔥
Watched a bunch of tutorials trying to truly internalize returns. This is the only one that actually clearly gets to the point, thank you🙏
Slap it on the channel. Live that thug life
Thanks for telling us the pros and cons. It answered a lot of questions for me.
My questions were:
1. Should I use the reverb in my synth versus on the channel?
2. What is are the advantages of the reverb on the channel?
3. What are the advantages or reverb as a send?
I understand better now and I believe that I can put it to work in my advantage on my mixes instead of being in mixing hell (It's a real place and lots of us have been there for days or more at a time...)
You also answered my question of reverb as a room!
Thank you!
I feel like I've been looking for this video all my life.
Or at least the last 2 years.
I'm getting increasingly impressed with these tutorials. I loved the ARP one and this one is very good too. Unpretentious, no BS, totally legit info.
This guy seems to always cut right to the heart of what I’m trying to figure out, without coddling his viewers but also not assuming they know anything. My confusion is gone!
Great explanation, but I don't think the cons you mentioned for using return tracks really exist. Just set the return track to "pre" instead of "post fader" and you pretty much get separate volume faders for the full dry signal and the full return signal :)
WOZS where is that option?
@@boymatmat In session view the option is on the master channel right above the fader. By default there are two yellow buttons with the text "Post" on it and when you click it, it changes to "Pre"
@Z M When changing the return track to "Pre", it ignores the output level (of the audio or midi track) you set with your fader. Let's say that you have an instrument on your midi track with the send amount set to 100% but the volume fader is turned all the way down. When the return track is set to "Post" you would not be able to hear anything but switching it to "Pre" ignores the fader position of your midi track and produces always 100% of the FX sound. I hope this clarifies it for you. Just try it for your self :)
@@wozs if I have an effect on my track, the send track in pre will be affected by the effect?
@@fernandojaviermanqueo5890 Yes, it will always be affected. The signal flow of a midi channel is:
Instrument -> FX -> Fader -> Master.
The signal you can send to a return track is either taken from before the fader (pre) or after (post)
no Zen my man, the pro solution is DO BOTH SAME TIME !
in Hardstyle pros put lead reverb on a bus to have it separate and can SC duck it from the lead group etc but also routing both together to another bus to OTT / compress them together for a better more glued sound
in Ableton you just do that with an effectrack on the lead group with effects in parallel chains and add ott/compression afterwards and this is the best result you can get, better than returns and simple inserts !
Hey, could I possibly trouble you for a super basic template of this for ableton?
You can have 3 reverbs (near, middle,far) on 3 return tracks. This actually can work great to give sounds their own place in the mix.
Logic x reverbs and delays, instead of having a 0-100% dry to wet, have two sliders one for dry signal and one for wet, this allows you to place the verb on the channel output but have the benefit of much more control
You can also EQ and Sideechain reverb if you put it in the Audio Effects Rack
Great channel. I have subscribed. Only suggestion is to talk about 5%slower. I'm a native english speaker and I am struggling to keep up with everything you say.
Darrell Johnston very much agree.
yes
I think recording the full wet reverb onto an audio track has the benefits of both methods. Works well with delay too, means you can easily make polyrhythms with the delay by having two different ones play together
Probably the best explained video out there about this subject! Thank you for this! :)
Dude i was like asking myself exactly that question, and then searched for youtube and landen on this video.
and it was so informative that i cant even explain. so straight-forwoward yet covers everything that i was curious about and more.
Thank you so much!
Kshmr uses audio effect racks and even then it gives a different sound too, Ableton has so many options
Yeah that is a common technique, blend fx I call it. You can try that with pretty much all effects for various outcomes.
Solid vid! Just wanted to add that you can still use a reverb send to add depth/space in the way you are describing is possible only when it's on the channel if your DAW lets you send to an aux at positive DB values (for example in REAPER you can send audio to an aux send at +5db if you want) so by balancing the send level and the track volume, you can effectively get the equivalent of a wet/dry this way, having the best of both worlds
Mate thank you so much ! I learnt the return reverb tips in KSHMR tutorials years ago but get hard to find out really when to properly use it ! You finally gave me the right answer to this ! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Can't wait to watch the video fully.. Can anyone also tell me the song playing on the background ( I know it's Zen's song and he did some kinda preview of it in one video) but I can't remember it.. Thanks guys and thanks for the great tutorials Zen!
both.
If on a certain track I want to add a specific reverb trick, to further add to the sound to try and alter it like crazy I will probably use an insert reverb, however, If I am just trying to get a sound in a space I will use a return channal.
I've been using returns mostly, but I'm ending up with lots of dry signal. Adding a small room reverb to certain tracks softens the dry signal a bit without causing too much extra noise. Then use your sends to craft the whole thing together and create one big space for it all to bounce around in and blend together.
Thank you , exactly what i was not understanding and was locking for a answer
Intro is everything😂
But fruity reverb 2 has a dry and wet fader separately
simple and clear
if you have ableton and pc that has a lot of cpu power, try this: use a reverb in a effect rack with one dry and one wet signal. so you can process both signals the way you want or even after the effect rack all thogeter (eq, ott, glue it together). the main thing i thougt you could'nt do was having two different sources in THIS exact same space ('cause of the effectrack). but you can copy and past this reverb on a other channel in a effect rack and there you go. it sounds exact the same as if you would use just one reverb for 2 sources. further you can process this even better, so you can try to have a delay in front of the reverb in one of the two effect racks so you create a sense of more depth and seperation of this two sources in this same space.
hope it makes kinda sense lol
This is the way.
we need a soundbank with flutes for moombahton like the intro zen!
Zen baby always with the goods, even though I knew this already, your tip on sending multiple instruments to the same return reverb to put all your leads in the same space, that was a little tip I forgot! Thanks bby
great content bro. love your channel
so helpful, thanks zen!
Hello Zen. In Caustic 3 (Android DAW), there is a reverb and a delay in the master section, whereas I thought it's for reverbing and delaying the master. Now I previously knew, that that is used as a return when I looked at the mixer: There is a reverb and delay knob.
Hey zen is putting reverb on an audio effect chain( creating two chains dry and wet) the same as putting reverb on a return channel?
yes, but you don't have the cpu benefits and can't route another sound through the reverb (obviously)
It is similar but not the same. Let's say you have a group of 3 Lead sounds and you put the audio effect chain on the group. Now u it's like sending a lead to the return. You keep your dry signal as "powerful" as before and mix in that wet signal (so pretty much the same as sending it on the return channel). The difference is though that the 3 Lead sounds are all treated as one. In case of the return channel you can decide how much of each Lead sound should be send to the return. In order to do that with the audio effect chain you'd need 3 of them. Again here it depends on the situation what method you use.
Thanks a lot guys , any help is appreciated 🙂
This was very helpful! Thank you Zen World!
You mean inserts vs SENDS. Still good info
learnt sumthing a bit new..so liked and subd!
Thanks for the video!
What an amazing voice pad in the first channel. Can u show how u made it?
Very helpful trick!! Thank you for this one!!
Marijn Haalboom yeah it is super helpful
i'm using 3 different reverbs on my sends, 1 small (for drums), 1 mid and 1 big. special reverbs (like blackhole) i put on the insert.
What do you mean by return? You are "sending" the audio from the main channel to the "send" (wet reverb channel) and you are blending it in with the main channel. The verb send is usually routed to the mix bus. Where are you getting "return" from? The reverb is not returning back to the main track. Its going to the 2 bus or a sub mix aux channel (in this case leads). I'm confused about the term "returns".
I prefer create new Audio Effect Rack and insert 2 chains: 1 Dry and 2 With effect and balance with volume
Nice tip, than u can give one rack a little delay, detune or crazy shit like that :D
@@zbeqem9507 Yes. I do that often :D
I appreciate this.
i was liking your tone, info & delivery but then all you had to do was mention Apparat..... subscribed.
the intro song slaps zen! you gotta release that.
Ty
Hi man! Thanks for the lessons, it helped me a lot
This is great! Thank you, brother!
This video came in clutchh. Thanks man!
Great video, Zen.
Thanx Mate,....this was exactly the info I was looking for :-)
First off, there is no negative to using a send, around 3:50 “harder to lay in the mix if you want atmosphere” all you do is use a gain plugin or lower the dry signal and leave the wet signal up.
Good explanation my man !
Great topic! Always ask my buddies this
Thank you!
love you bro your vids are mint!
Hello! Thanks for the video! I have one question:
You are about to record some vocals and you have some vocal tracks (lead vocals and vocal layers) that require the same default plugins to get started. For example, you might have a standardized plugin chain like EQ, DeEsser, Compressor, Saturator, Reverb and Delay with default settings for every vocal track you produce.
To save CPU, instead of inserting this plugin chain in each vocal track, people usually suggest using a Return track and inserting the plugin chain there. Then, it's advised to increase the Send level of the vocal tracks to let the audio pass through the Return track and then to the Master.
However, unless the output of the vocal tracks changes from Master to Send Only, you will have double audio going through the master (the audio from the vocal tracks and the return track).
You could also group the vocals and send them to the return track, which leads to the same issue but with less flexibility in the individual tracks.
My question is what is the best practice in the above example, considering the need for further effects per track down the road, as well as gain staging and mixing overall?
Thank you!
Return track way and you would run reverb at 100% in the return track that way it doesn’t double! Remember the reverb is a new sound created by vocal. If you put it in individual vocals then 20% is fine but not on the returns does that make sene
Is it the same to use an effect rack with the dry/wet chain (and play with the volumes) than using returns? So u can also process the wet signal by itself in the wet chain
Yes, your right. The only different is that u cant send another track into the effekt.
awesome thank you!
greaaat helped a lot
Night bass stuff next! let that grime and uk bass slide innnnnn
clear now)
Nice topic!
I love you so much , that help me a lot
Damn...thanks..can the same be said for any effect? Compression, saturation, etc..
why did you add a reverb and not use the one that was already there?
Next: Should My N Effect Go In Returns Or Inserts?
HI Zen, hey how many reverbs do you use on a busy EDM track and what is your go to decay time for the synths ? Also do you have a separate reverb for percussion? and what is its decay time? Thanks! do you put any reverb on your bass , drum kick hihats? etc
Can you make a video about automation and how to use it for drops? I am learning tech house and find it difficult to create an intense and suspenseful drop, it just seems repetitive.
Nice,better than your Tech bass tutorials ! You should challenge yourself on how to get that REAL tech bass sound nailed by dudes like Fisher etc.. and try to forget Serum sometimes...A guy like Shiban san example use Monark to make his basses,you can tweak Serum for 10 years you'll never get his sound by using it ,use headphones when you're working on processing !
11:45 dude your mouth isn't moving, but I hear your voice, gj
The acid is kicking in.
Hey zen talk about compression and reverb serial processing ..some time they use 2 reverb in same chain.and same with compression
What do you do when you you want to low pass filter a sound that has the reverb on the return? You always hear the unfiltered reverb coming through.
Where can I get that last track. It sounded like Odesza. Can you make a video on how Odesza constructs their songs
Thanks for that one i am shit with reverbs!
What genre is he producing?
But if we put the reverb on an effect rack inserted in the track, is it the same than a return ? thanks bro ! :)
Is making a duplicate chain with 100% verb have the same outcome?
It's the same as the bus, bc now you can mix between the dry and the wet signal without losing any dry signal.
what about pre, post?
Question TO ZEN WORld
Hey man i am still in doubt a lil but. When we route the channel to the reverb send then do the send just gives out the reverb or reverb + dry signal
I use fl ....plz dont @ me
Yeeeey
❤️❤️
Never been this early on a vid before.
NAMASTE :3
how can Bodzin be jealous if ur wearing a hat!
If you guys want to see how important it is to not overdue reverb on your track check out this video by Jon Sine ruclips.net/video/qlo9UPlHqsE/видео.html , i feel like itll help yall see the difference, but of course it depends on the type of genre of music your making. It should still help though nonetheless! Great video Zen thank you for helping us on these little tips! 🔥
Thanks for slap in the face of reverb crossfaced chicken wings.
100th