SPIKE vs PRINCIPAL WOOD! Buffy, the Vampire Slayer 7x17 'Lies My Parents Told Me' Reaction!
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- #buffythevampireslayer #buffy #reaction #firsttimewatching #sarahmichellegellar #buffyverse
Hi, my name is Elie Moses and I am a 22 Year-Old Law and Film student here in Sydney, Australia. I have decided to watch the entire 'Buffy, the Vampire Slayer' TV SERIES for the FIRST TIME. Here is my reaction for Episode 17 of Season 7. PRINCIPAL WOOD CONFRONTS SPIKE AS BUFFY IS STALLED!
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Buffy the Vampire Slayer first time reaction
Spike is no ordinary vampire, he is very emotional. Even without a soul, he still cared for his mother in the past. Spike also fell in love with Buffy and cared for her in a soulless way as he could . He returned his soul himself for her.Buffy is ready to protect Spike even from Giles, because she completely trusts him and knows that he has changed for her. She completely has feelings for him. Even Cassie saw that.
#SPUFFY forever..
Spike demonstrated perfectly to Wood that the demon is not there anymore. He had Wood helpless on the floor, he went in for the kill with full vampire face - and still let him live. The demon that killed Nikki Wood would have taken the opportunity and killed the Principal right then and there. But Spike is not that demon anymore. He chooses not to kill, with his own free will and with his soul.
AMEN..
I think that spike was successful in beating slayers because he understands what slayers go through. This understanding has not only created a bond between them but has become a support and strength to Buffy not a weakness.
@Allie K. Interesting!
@@kthalma me too!
@Allie K. Along with his insecurity about his own lack of book smarts, compared with Spike's apparently college educated self
Spike's main strength is his ability to read people very accurately. We see him use this to his advantage when he works with Adam to turn the Scoobies against each other. He also uses this to understand Slayers, plus it's also why he is usually the first to notice / pick up on things
@@LilyJarsyah like when he told Buffy that her and Angel would “never be friends”
He’s always been insightful..
This is another episode that I remember so well because of the backstory. The whole story between Spike and Nikki Wood was fantastic. We see the connection of how Buffy's relationship with her mother is similar to Spike and his mom's relationship. And how that ties in to the core of Robin's relationship with his mother.
This episode gave us the reason why Spike is so different from other vampires. He truly was a good, loving son when he was human. Who had a nice, loving mother. Even when he was a vampire, he still loved his mom. But she couldn't continue loving him the same way he had hoped when she was turned. It hurt him so much the way she changed that he knew in that second that she wasn't his mother anymore and he had to kill the monster that his mom never was. It's why I think he not only understands Buffy the most but he also identifies with her in solidarity when it came to caring for their mom which we all know he liked Joyce cuz she was nice lady like his mom. Talking about killing the monster, it reminded me of Buffy and Angel when he was Angelus and it was too late to save Angel and she had to do the right thing: send him to hell to save the world.
To which it ties in to what Giles and everyone else is forgetting about Buffy: she will always see the bigger picture because she's the Slayer. She's the one who has to make those hard decisions, live with it and grow from it. I find what Giles did to her was dirty. A huge stepback into their relationship. He basically said with his actions that he doesnt trust Buffy or her judgement. Like, wtf? As if she hasn't time and time again shown that she's capable of putting her personal feelings aside for the greater good: sacrificing Angel and sacrificing herself to save the world.
Elie, I liked that you pointed out the root to why Spike became an evil vampire. His peers called him a fool and the worst came from his mom whe she turned evil and called him a "limp, sentimental fool" that in turn was the start of what made him become as you said, the "raging Spike". I was gutted 💔😔.
There's a scene with Spike and Robin that makes this whole thing not short and sweet but short and poignant when Spike tells Robin, "That's the way the game is played." And Robin goes, "Game?" And I'm like, yes, Robin, the game of Life. The roles of the vampire and the Slayer. You may not agree to it or like it BUT... it is what it is. That's the name of the game.
Agree with you!
Very well written!
💯% 👏🏻👍🏻
AMEN
Slayers kills vamps
But vamps are allowed to battle still
The tortured brooding isn't from the soul, that's just Angel. Spike is more accepting of the past and what he was but he is confident that it's not what he is now. I also like how Buffy said the same thing as Nikki, it shows that it is the call of the slayer and not a reflection of Nikki's love or feeling for her son. It was the lie his mother told him.
Indeed. Angelus reveled in his depravity, and when a soul was forced on him, he was unprepared to deal with what separated Angel from Angelus. Angel resents being trapped with Angelus just as much as Angelus resents being trapped within Angel.
Spike the Demon, on the other hand, recognized what his lack of humanity was costing him, and actively chose to shackle his depravity with a soul, as a worthy sacrifice in exchange for the chance at a greater prize.
Spike the Souled has different priorities than Spike the Demon, because he is capable of being truely selfless, but Spike the Demon knew that true selflessness was a requirement to be truely worthy.
The Demon and the Soul are in harmony (lol) in a way that Angel and Angelus can never be.
IMO it makes Spike a better hero, and more complete person than Angel, because not only is Spike wholeheartedly committed to saving the world, but he is willing and able to harness the threat of his dark side in service of the good.
Every time Angel tries to do the same, and harness his inner dark side, he ends up losing a piece of himself to the darkness, because he hasn't understood, accepted, and integrated his darkness into himself.
Angel has caged Angelus, while Spike the Souled has trained Spike the Demon.
Spike has the advantage of a group of people to support and help him. Angel was left all alone after being thrown out of his vampire home.
@@gungho1284 Spike earned that support by fighting the demon in him ("you're alive because I saw you change"). It didn't come out of nowhere. If anything, he started from the disadvantage point of being Buffy's mortal enemy. Of trying to kill them all at one point or another. He had to work hard to get to the point where he could ask for help and get it, in the first place.
Angel didn't have support because he chose evil before being thrown out, then chose to roam the streets for 100 years doing nothing. Then he had the huge advantage of having a soul (which was NOT his choice).
@@kamakazines4901 the idea that “Spike the demon recognized….” his moral flaws is 🤮. Why would a soulless demon have any inkling or any trace of moral conscience ?
@@xrey83 Because Spike, as opposed to other soulless demons, has retained a lot of his humanity. Spike definitively had a certain degree of moral conscience, we've seen that.
Remember this. Giles is Buffy's father figure. He lies like a dog to her in this episode. He just broke her trust. This was the WRONG way to approach this.
Elie: “Sorry about all the background noise! I literally can’t do anything about it. It’s so annoying!”
Me every time: “Bro I can’t hear anything!”
😂
Every content creator!
You can see the difference between spike and angelus after they were made spike was really still William and modeled himself after angelus to win dru over and make her happy. Spike was still a nice guy wanted to heal his dieing mother while angelus murdered his whole family right away there is more to the difference between them than just soul or no soul spike is unique
YES, i mean I enjoyed Angel as a character and he’s well written. But Spike is something wise. Love Spike!..
I love your reaction to this episode! ☺️ I’m not sure you noticed though when Buffy is walking away from principal Wood and she says ‘the mission is what matters’, that’s what his mum said to him when he was little 😭. Also I really love the name of this episode because it’s quite comforting in a way when we’re seeing Giles’ and Buffy’s relationship becoming fractious. ‘Lies my parents told me’, (as well as being obviously about Robin and Spike’s relationships with their mums) is about Giles lying to Buffy, and it’s nice to have it reaffirmed that he’s such a father figure to her. It makes you feel like that father daughter relationship is never going away, even if they both make mistakes or don’t always understand each other’s choices.
Also I love your channel, your reactions to Buffy are my favourite RUclips videos to watch ☺️
EXACTLY
This title is like a triple entrendre!..
IM BACK FROM HOLIDAY NOW however I start 5 days a week summer uni this week so I'll try to get some content out this week! This was recorded last week so I have no content to upload ahahahahah so i'll try my best. I do still hope you enjoy this reaction and I have some Christmas reaction Ideas incoming! 👀👀👀
Don’t take too longggg!!! 😉 the next Angel episode is probably my favorite Angel episode of all of them!
Hope you had a great boys weekend and a fun time on the set! Good luck at school too. Always looking forward to your content so this made my night!
Have fun, Elie boy!
For Christmas content, might I suggest Black Christmas (2006) to provide a little variety to the period if you're going to be reacting typical Christmas movies for the rest of the days? Make sure you get the 2006 version instead of the AWFUL 2019 version. The original 1974 version is really great too, but I am recommending the 2006 version because it has more than a few familiar faces and totally embodies the kind of college "90s" vibe you like. Plus it has tons of fun moments that you'll no doubt have great reactions to! :D
You should consider doing a video or live focused on fave guests. For example Jeremy Renner, Amy Adams, Wentworth Miller from Prison Break who became a fish monster (lol) ..just an idea.
I didn't know Summer uni was a thing here to be honest, but I hope you have a good one and stay mellow.
Whether or not Spike was a liability isn't the point. The point is that if Giles is going to tell Buffy "he taught her all she needs to know" in _Tabula Rasa_ and then leave town, he is claiming to respect her as an adult who can make her own choices. Coming back and referring to her as the "general" is doing the same thing. Going behind her back shows Giles disrespecting with all that and treating her like a child after claiming she is ready for adulthood. Killing Spike should only be done as a last and only resort if Giles had been right about him. Spike being able to de-trigger his trigger shows it wasn't the right choice because there were still other options besides killing him. Wood just wanted revenge. He didn't care one way or the other if Spike was triggered. The trigger just became an excuse to use. If everybody had all left Buffy and Spike alone just after the prokaryote stone was initially used, Spike's mother issues would be solved while he was still in the basement chained up. Instead Wood wanted revenge, unintentionally bringing it out. Giles went against everything he told Buffy about growing up ("she needs to learn..." & "I've told you all you need to know") when he really just didn't like the decisions she was making without him. It's a Scooby Gang trait to treat Buffy like dirt and yell at her when things go wrong and/or when they don't like her decisions. Buffy closing the door on Giles after saying "I think you've taught me everything l need to know" isn't disrespecting Giles' authority like he did to her authority. It's telling him she is in charge, as he told her she should be, and she is no longer the child he is still looking at her as.
Of course the demon is always inside Spike. But unlike Angel, Spike has more control because his soul was a reward and he is more accepting of his past as well as the vampire he is, unlike Angel. Plus Spike felt guilty enough to go get a soul. That was a true turning point for his character. Being soulless it was still laced with _perhaps I could get the girl if I do this_ intentions, but that all disappeared when he gained a soul. I would never trust Spike without a soul again, but I would prefer a guilt-ridden soulless Spike over Angelus any day.
100%
He wanted her to be a general and make commands regardless of how anyone feels about it, but only if HE agrees with those commands as well. They (the scoobies) all want that from her, and the second she starts doing it….they don’t like it. They ALWAYS turn on her.
This is one of those smug betrayals where Giles clearly doesn't respect Buffy's decision making and is even harder to forgive than the episode where he was injecting her with chemicals that weakened her when she was to fight a vampire without her slayer strength. He then had the excuse that he was following the council tradition. This time he had nothing other than doubt in his slayer.
1) You were so correct about the title!
2) D. B. Woodside. is the name of Wood's actor.
3) Don't worry about the song's copyright. It's an old folk tune, probably in the public domain by now.
4) Spike definitely gets a special treatment from Buffy. BUT, with all due respect to Dawn (and Anya), other than Buffy and Willow he's their strongest fighter. They need him. The First might take control of him again, yes, but maybe not. Maybe it's lying.
It's a risk either way. They pulled him back before, they can do it again. The First also tried to convince Spike to twitch sides by torturing him and Spike refused.
So even though Buffy is somewhat biased due to her love for Spike, she's also right. She will probably give Willow a pass too, to be fair. We don't actually know. Moreover, anyone could turn out to be the First's next target. No one's safe.
S7 Buffy has hardened. It's not the Buffy who used to feel terrible remorse over people she couldn't save (think Lessons vs. Phases, for example). "The mission is what matters," she mutters Nikki's words (not Riley's lol) as she walks away from Wood.
5) Remember in Conversations With Dead People the First showed up to Willow and tried to convince her to kill herself? Keep that and how it tried to get Spike to twitch sides in mind. You'll know what I mean and WHY it targeted these two.
6) A vampire is still part demon. It's just that when they have a soul the demon is not in control. Forget what we've been told by Giles in S1, the majority of vampires have retained some of their humanity. The Judge from S2 can attest to that. It's just that different vampires have different degrees of humanity in them and it probably has to do with who they used to be as humans.
Now, with Spike... He has retained a lot of his humanity. More than any other vampire we've met. That's what made him different. That's what made him capable of the change and of falling in love with Buffy. Just notice, one of the first things Spike does as a vampire is sire his mother so she doesn't have to suffer and then die. He still loved and cared for her, he was hurt by her words and felt remorse... But as a soulless demon, he's incapable of fully grasping human emotions, especially others'.
The demon will always be there. Yes. But it can't just return. In Spike's case, even if he loses his soul, it wouldn't change anything. He wouldn't go back to be the Slayer-killing Spike. Wood is looking for revenge, nothing else. He's the liability.
7) Did you make the connection between Spike and his mother and Spike and Joyce? Apparently Spike is a mama's boy. Which explains why he gets along with Joyce so well. Why he respects her. Especially since he lost his own mother.
8) Giles may be right about Spike being dangerous. But, much like Xander in Becoming pt.2, he wanted to kill Spike mostly out of selfish reasons, so I don't feel sorry for him. Remember the scene in First Date: "You rely on him, he relies on you." Giles resents the fact that Buffy doesn't need him anymore and Spike is just a convenient target. Again, keep that in mind for the upcoming episodes.
Funny how fans think spike doesn’t deserve a chance, but willow got one after she straight up almost killed Dawn and then literally threatened to kill her later. Buffy forgave her, even after all that. Tbh she’s more of a risk at this point than spike is.
@@daniig62 Not to mention r*aped Tara (the same main reason why people won't forgive Spike). Literally every single main character has done terrible things (with a soul!).
@@moonystic9417 exactly. If they all deserved a chance, then he does too. I maintain my opinion that the only two characters that ever faced genuine repercussions for their actions was Faith and Spike. The rest we just blow over bc they’re the main gang, and plenty of shit they’ve done is never really laid bare at their feet to take accountability for. Spike took accountability for himself, and so did Faith.
I'm on Buffys side here. As Giles has said, she's the general/leader. She is the one that has to make the choices to ensure they can stand against the First. I consider keeping Spike around being one of the 'hard' choices, considering the risk. He's the best fighter in her squad, only Buffy herself is better. Then we have Principal Woods, Giles, Xander, Anya, Dawn, Andrew and a bunch of potentials. Not counting Willow since her magic is on a whole nother level. That's what Buffy has to work with.
If Spike is a liability, what is Woods, that gets told by the First about Spike, and decides to include a little personal vengeance before the fight against the First Evil resumes, behind Buffys back. What is Giles, that tells Buffy to make tough decisions and then goes behind her back when he doesn't agree with them? They were gonna kill her best fighter and then what?
Now, Woods I can understand. Fully. I would feel the same thing. What I wouldn't do, is to go up to the very leader and tell her I want to help, only to go behind her back when Big Bad comes and helpfully tells me my mother's killer is in the squad. Woods joined the team, and then decided to go on a personal vendetta. He talks about the greater good, but that's not what he brings up during the fight with Spike. Then it's all about him, not the world. Very human and understandable, but like Buffy says, the fight is coming, and they don't have time for vendettas.
Giles betrayal stings. I'll give him that he didn't know that the First set Woods on this path. And I still wonder what drove Giles. Was it the greater good? His feelings for Buffy as a daughter? Him just considering Spike a danger? All of it? Ironically, Giles and Woods were the ones doing what the First wanted, and they didn't need a hypnotic trigger for it. What will they do next time Buffy makes a decision they don't agree with?
Someone once said, on another video reaction - Giles and Woods are lucky Buffy isn't a true military general. What are the punishment for insubordination in the army again?
30:47 I’m going to quote Angel by saying “This wasn’t about you, This was never about you, and you fall for it every single time!”
You mean Angelus lol..
At the end there Buffy says the same line that Woods mom would always say to him, “The mission is what matters.” Eesh I bet that hit hard.
What I love about this episode is it really gives us insight into how turning into a vampire affects different people. Spike's mom was utterly devoted to her son. Her love for him was entirely selfless. Losing her soul made her incapable of that. Spike's love of Buffy was selfish, and he was able to keep some moral actions because of it. And Harmony has such a selfish desire to be liked that she sort of became a better person by transforming into an evil, soulless monster.
I had a different take when it comes to Spike's mom. I think Spike's mom really loved her son, but at the same time she did think he was a little too clingy at times and worried about whether he would ever find a girl. She probably also thought his poems weren't always amazing. But she loved her son so much she always supported him no matter what. Once she became a vampire and there was no more love stopping those bad thoughts from coming out and that's why she became so monstrous
I don’t understand how selfish love creates moral actions. The love HAS to be selfless
Pre souled Spikes love was overall selfish fine. But even PRE SOUKED Spike did things souless Angel would’ve NEVER done for Buffy. Like watching over Dawn when Buffy died..
It's never been confirmed but I absolutely believe that Spike's mother kept a large part of her humanity when she was turned and was horrified at what she'd become.
In keeping with the theme of the episode, she was lying to William, saying some very hurtful and somewhat disgusting things to him to goad him into staking her.
She's the first vamp we've ever seen that changed back to their human face before dusting and I think she did that so that William's last memory of her was as his mother, not the Vampire.
The worry on her face before she dusts also shows her concern for what William has become
I was so mad in that episode, because of the betrayal of Giles ! Wood, it's different, he wants vengeance, and even if he's wrong to want it now that Spike has a soul and the person who killed his mom doesn't exist anymore, I can forgive him easier. Also, he is not that close to Buffy, unlike Giles...
But the fact that Giles did that, in Buffy's back, lied to her and tried to occupy her while wood was killing Spike... I wouldn't forgive him either. Why ? Because first, WHY DOESN'T HE TRUSTS Buffy's decision ? She is the slayer, she has made difficult decisions a looooot of times. She is not putting Spike above the mission, there. She just calcultated the risks. She told him that, and he keeps saying it's because she cares for Spike, despite Buffy telling him why she made that decision ! (Giles does not know if the chip was deffective before, or after the first came in play too. Buffy made a judgment call, because she is the one that should and can make it)They need help badly !!! Spike is their best fighter. OF COURSE she wouldn't want him to be contained by the chip (we saw what the first is capable of with Andrew and the students and stuff) without even being sure that the chip would have a purpose ! I mean, what if he had the chip, couldn't fight properly against some of their assaillants, BUT the chip also didn't kept the first from controlling him ? She believes the first involvment is what broke the chip. That's a fair guess, since it worked great since then (the fact that he could hit buffy does not matter, it was explained why ! But the chip still worked ) ! She made a decision, based on the facts she had, that's not emotional, that's pure logic ! But Giles doesn't see it, solely because he doesn't agree with her. In my opinion, he is being a litle condescending. Like he thinks he knows more than her...
Second, Giles tricked Buffy. He didn't just agreed and helped Wood. His role was to keep Buffy away. He lied and distracted her. That's so messed up ! She forgave him when he did that in season two (helpless) but he does it again, trying to kill one of their soldier !
I don't care that the trigger is there. Killing Spike is wrong ! No matter what they say to try and justify it. Spike is one of their most powerful warriors, and they are in a war. Yes he represents a risk. But he also went against the First before, because of his soul, when he told Buffy about the corps. He can beat it, but their solution : Kill him. They don't have enough real warriors in their gang, so that they can kill some.
Concerning what you said, she doesn't have to say it ! Killing Spike here is not the same as sacrificing Dawn back in season 5 ! Here, she needs a warrior. What she doesn't need though is doubt in her ranks, and her father figure betraying her ! GILES SHOULD HAVE TRUSTED HER and trust her decisions. She sacrified herself twice, she killed angel... She proved that she can do what's necessary, even if it's painful. But still, he doesn't trust her. The problem here is not Buffy and how she is with Spike. Or Spike and what he can do. It's Giles not trusting the person he should trust the most. The person that is there to actually save them all. Because she proved him how strong she was (mentally and physically) times and times again.
So... I couldn't desagree more with you in the end XD First, Spike said it, the trigger is gone ! He was not lying, or else Wood would be dead. He is not, because Spike chose not to kill him, because of his mom. But Spike had every rights to kill him in my opinion. Not because of revenge, but because of the war and the fact that they can't have people they can't trust in their ranks. That is also why Spike says to Buffy 'if he only looks at me the wrong way', because that would mean he is still a threat. If Spike was still under the trigger's influence, the simple fact that the song was on, would have made him go ferral and kill Wood, he wouldn't have reflected like he did. So Spike is free of the trigger the first used to controll him ! That was the point of that episode ;)
So Giles was not only wrong to betray Buffy before, but he is WRONG here even more ! Because now, Spike is free of the first's influence and their best warrior after Buffy ! He is needed weither Giles likes it or not. Giles is the one being wrong here. He is over cautious and for some reason doesn't trust Buffy, only because he thinks he knows better than her. That he knows what she feels and why she got rid of Spike's chip, better that her. That's crap ! And in the end, him betraying Buffy is what is the most dangerous in that time of war !! He actually played in the first's game in my opinion. Because Buffy should be able to trust the people she fights with. And I wouldn't trust Giles anymore after that...
I completely agree with you! 👏👏
But all of this you said above makes it even worse that in the end this is what helped Spike to get rid of the trigger. We will never know how the outcome of S7 would have been with Spike possibly going on a killing mode within seconds of hearing this song during a big battle.
So all that betrayal was necessary to cure Spike, which kind of underlines that in the end Giles was kind of right... ironically.
@@IslandpferdeHaukagil yes and no. I believe it could have been done in other ways. I don't think the betrayal is crucial. The visions spike had were provoked by willow's spell not the fight.
This is one of those smug betrayals where Giles clearly doesn't respect Buffy's decision making and is even harder to forgive than the episode where he was injecting her with chemicals that weakened her when she was to fight a vampire without her slayer strength. He then had the excuse that he was following the council tradition. This time he had nothing other than doubt in his slayer.
Good analysis, was interesting to watch! Honestly, not all stories they show got me, but this one was fascinating. It keeps you in suspense and keeps you guessing the whole episode. At the same time the story is simple. And as we know Giles is a father figure for Buffy, so she was dealing with parents issue here too. And she also made her choice regarding it.
Also like how they showed Spike here, very solid and I like what Buffy said. It's a mix for her. She needs him for war and she has some feeings towards him. She said she belives in him, in both ways - that he's changed and can be good, and as a warrior. Looks like he is everything for her now, lol. No wonder she's defending him :)
I think Buffy's feelings for Spike are all about ensuring he's there for the war, not about romance at all. The human part of her may be somewhat confused by her feelings of protection over him (she's "not ready for him to not be here"), but her feelings have a purpose, and that purpose is the mission.
@@charmingjinx9379 I don't think so just because it's really not that hard to develop emotional bond, feelings for a person in this case. Why only mission? They had history before.
There are many reasons.
1. He is always ready to help you, you count on him. And not only that he can kick some ass, but also just for support. Like she always expects him and asks to support her opinion when others don't. They showed it recently. Or even show, take care of her when she needs it. Was before and will be later. She sees that he will be ready to support her both on and off battle field. That's a pretty solid thing.
2. She was intimate with him before. It's really simple to develop a connection during it. Especially when he showed her his admiration, not only sex. He showed her care earlier when she needed it. Even if we skip this moment like can vampires love without a soul, he kept telling her that all the time, that he loves, wants and admire her. And she was coming to him for that also. Such will leave a mark.
For me there is no reason to deny that there can be feelings. Why? Because that's Spike and he is a vampire? It could work for 5 season story but not now. Bunch of things happened after it, now it's different, reasons are everywhere.
Anya killed more people than anyone Buffy has ever met. Spike doesn't even come close to Anya's level.
I have never been a Spuffy fan and have never wanted to see them together as a couple. But I am 100% on Buffy's side in this episode. Wood and Giles were the ones acting out of insecurity and revenge here. They weren't thinking about saving the world - only their own desires.
I don't think Giles had any desire to kill Spike. I think he genuinely thought he was doing what needed to be done, but Buffy couldn't, like when he killed Ben. He's wrong in this instance and shouldn't have done it, but I don't think his motives are anything but saving the world.
@@hardybryan I can see similarities between this situation and the Ben situation but this felt a lot less selfless.
The way Giles went about it, with the manipulation, made it seem like he was trying to punish Buffy for not listening to his advice. He wasn't necessarily thinking about the "greater good".
Spike has been nothing but a liability and should have been staked when he assaulted Buffy.
Wow. Elie, I just have to say that you are getting so many great comments here from everyone that have lived with and re-watched Buffy for many years. Take a moment and think about the journey you've had with this show and then when your read these comments, appreciate the depth of knowledge you're getting from everyone. That you've already started to think about a re-watch just shows how much this show has become part of your thoughts. Just 5 more episodes and you'll be finished with your first watch of Buffy!
I think you should put together a show wrap-up video taking about your journey watching Buffy. You can ask for input from everyone on what to include in your wrap-up video, so I won't say anymore here. Just know that we've all been with you on your Buffy journey, and really appreciate all the effort you put into every video you make.
P.S. Wait until you finish watching Buffy to get input on your thoughts video as we don't want any spoilers.
It’s amazing how after 7 years people STILL doubt Buffy putting the mission first. She has always put saving the world first... she did it with Angel. She even sacrificed herself. And they STILL doubt her. Xander and Giles can’t get past their own dislike of Angel and/or Spike and push their selfish motives onto Buffy. She has never faltered in that. They have. Xander could probably have prevented Acathla from awakening altogether if he had given Buffy Willow’s actual message instead of lying and saying “Kick his ass.” But, like Giles here, his self-centered dislike trumps their trust in Buffy. Not to say she’s infallible and doesn’t make mistakes, but she always has the big picture in mind. They don’t. Robin gets a little bit of a pass as he’s new to the group, but Giles has no excuse to doubt her at this point. And may I point out that Robin made a rookie mistake in assuming that the First “slipped up” and accidentally revealed to Andrew it “wasn’t time for Spike yet.” Doubtful the First slips up at all. It also tried to get Willow to kill herself early on in the season. Giles should spend his time wondering why the First wants certain players out of the game moe than others instead of doubting Buffy and actively working to undermine her.
The next 5 episodes are like a runaway train hurtling toward the finale. Looking forward to them.
The new mic looks great! Hope all goes well with Uni.
While I agree that the reason the others give (Buffy has a soft spot for Spike) is not why she's doing it, IMO Buffy is wrong to think Spike's value in the coming fight outweighs the risk of keeping him around without first eliminating the trigger.
@@judson9223 After 7 years of seeing her handle everything, I trust her instincts and reactions. Giles and the Scoobies, on the other hand, have too long a history of short-sightedness to ignore. And I’m the farthest from a Spuffy shipper you can get. But I trust her. Giles couldn’t even stand up to an image of Jenny for 2 minutes before he was blabbing how to awaken Acathla. He’s the last person to talk about being strong enough to win wars.
@@johnmoreland6089 Whose instincts are more reliable? Absolutely, Buffy! I'm saying, in this specific situation we can see clear as day Spike has multiple opportunities to kill Buffy, the scoobies, or the potentials because his chip wasn't replaced and he is allowed to roam around unrestrained. In this episode itself, Buffy and Wood would have died in that opening fight if the First triggered Spike in the middle of their brawl with the vampires and backed Spike up with some bringers.
On top of that, he is at the house unrestrained all the time. He could poison their food, kill them in their sleep. Hell, if he was triggered right after Buffy went into the portal in Get It Done, he could easily kill everyone there when they were distracted fighting the demon and Buffy would be trapped in the other dimension forever. It is through sheer plot contrivance that the First has not acted on common sense and used Spike in this way.
@@judson9223 exactly. This and other reasons like The First calling in Andrew to open its seal makes The First the worst villain in the Buffyverse. Everything The First does seems more like a plot device and less like what an actual ultimate evil would do.
This is the episode where Buffy becomes the general, the COMMANDER. She didn't have the confidence of her watcher or Wood, but they know now they have no choice. The Slayer gives the orders, no matter how difficult that is for the men in her life to accept. The mission is what matters and she accepts that she will even sacrifice Dawn if the mission requires it.
21:45 "its as though ive been given new eyes". I cannot confirm this but i bet this is a nod to Anne Rices, interview with a vampire.
One of my all time favorite episodes.
Richard is one of my favorite moments too he is so nice. How happy is when he thinks that's the fight of Buffy's life 😂😂
Woods confusion over the trigger the soul the chip was exactly how my mom was when she was trying to understand what was going on in this season. 😂
So when you were debating watching angel alongside Buffy all I could think about is if you don't this joke won't make sense. Andrew thinking Fred is a man lol.
Spike is aware of his presence at the end of first date he said the first talked to the little boy (Andrew) said it wasn't time for him yet he should leave and move out because wood is deamon fighter now Buffy said no you can't leave I'm not ready for you to not be here
The metaphor behind the ending of this episode, when Buffy tells Giles that she doesn't need him anymore, is that Buffy is now completely grown up. Vampires have always been a metaphor on this show for the things which stop us from reaching adulthood. That's why this show isn't called Buffy: The Demon Slayer, despite her fighting mostly non-vampire demons beginning in season 3, but Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, or "Buffy: The slayer of the things that won't grow up." Vampires are frozen in time and not just physically, but also psychologically. Their personalities are stuck in the cultural and societal time in which they were sired. So, a vampire who became one in the 1970s, will still have a 70s haircut, and so forth. They can't grow up or mature because they have no soul. They can't objectively analyze themselves in the mirror, as they have no reflection (neither a physical nor a psychological one). This is the episode in which Buffy slayed her very last vampire ever while talking to Giles in that cemetery. There will be no more soulless vampires on this show from now on (at least not the regular kind). This, combined with Buffy telling Giles she doesn't need him anymore, symbolizes Buffy's final ascent to adulthood!
Kind of a spoiler at the end there, and I'm not sure if it's accurate. But nice analysis!
@@alicequinn505 Yes, it's accurate, unless you count the Angel TV show (we'll still see regular soulless vampires there). And I'm not ruining his experience of the show in any way by saying this.
Buffy officially relinquishing Giles of his duties as Watcher with that betrayal of his.
30:27 NOT true. Remember the end of the First Date episode when Buffy and Spike sit on the sofa and Spike suggests it would be best for him to leave town? Buffy was the one that convinced him to stay ("I am not ready for you to not be here"). If she had said the word, Spike had left that day.
21:17 "Is it because as a vampire, youre a completly different individual? You loose all those human elements and emotion. You´re a demon.
I stole the text below from a forum cause english isnt my first language and I remembered hearing the explanations for this over the years. This comment explains very well how I feel about this. By Blaze on the buffy-boards on Aug. 27th, 2013. ( In case you´re watching Blaze, thanks and sorry for stealing your words but I completly agree)
Blaze:buffy-boards 2013: Essentially, the vampire retains some old personality traits, it's still you because it remembers your life, it remembers who they were, it still walks and talks like if it were you, meaning they don't really change when they become vampire, except they do change because the demon takes over. A vampire is essentially you being controlled by a demon. That is also why I don't hold vampires responsible for their actions, because they can't possibly control themselves. Being evil is the new normal for them. Every vampire has one thing in common, and it is the demon inside them. All of them feed, absolutely all of them, so the demon is universal, the rest is up to the human that used to live there.
To add to Blaze´s comment, "it remembers your life, it remembers who they were". So basically the worse of a human you were, the better the vampire. Angel or Liam, sorry to say. I love Angel but objectivly whilst thinking about these details, Liam was a useless drunk beforehand, thats why the vampire could take over completly and get really unapologeticly evil. But with William, Spike. He was kind, poet of a human ..so even when he first became a vampire he had so much of that leftover kindness and love that the vampire did what to vampires is the best way to show love. To sire someone.
So yes, who you were as a human affects what kind of vampire you will become. I think thats why there are so many Spuffy fans. Cause when you think about it, it means that William as a human was a kinder soul than Liam was. Again, im not hating on Angel and in this timeline of ocurse Angel (Liam) is the better one of the two.
Anyways I LOVE that this show isn´t so black and white, it has nuances to it.
34:10 I am sure Buffy would sacrifice Spike to safe the world, if that was what is needed. But right now, sacrificing him would be the exact opposite. She needs him in this fight and she knows that him fighting by her side will probably make a huge difference. So why should she be willing to sacrifice him right now?
I get where Giles comes from, he never liked Spike and since Buffy is like a daughter for him I understand that he doesn't want Spike to be the one for her. But complaining that Buffy is not looking at the big picture? She has never been as much of a "General", never made as tough decisions before, as she has now.
And all her decisions cut her off even more from her friends and family (we barely get Buffy-Xander-Willow-talk anymore or Buffy-Dawn-scenes). But those decisions drive her even more near Spike as he is also the lonely-soldier-type, understanding what decisions have to be made and the consequences of those (their talk in The Gift, where Buffy says to Spike "We're not all gonna make it. You know that." and he casually responding "Yeah, always knew I'd go down fighting"). He understands her completely and doesn't question her for a second, even if she would send him to die. That is the kind of army Buffy needs right now, not some scared girls or a witch that holds back or a demonfighter that only thinks about his vendetta.
well said. He understands she could sacrifice him at any moment and he is willing
The only thing I notice is that when you talk into the mic it’s great. When you Lean forward it goes a bit tunnel sounding. Not muffled. Just hollowish. It’s very directional. It will not impact my enjoyment and loyalty to the channel. Another banger!!!!!
27:57 this is something that our modern world desperatily needs. The harsh but factual truth.
I think in this episode Buffy finally realized that, while Giles and the Scoobies are valuable assets and counselors, in the end everything rests on her shoulders, and she doesn't need Giles as a teacher anymore. She's not in love with Spike but she does love him as a friend and someone she knows will always have her back in a fight - which is becoming very important in the battle against the First. Plus Buffy understands something about Spike that no one else does: that while Angelus had his soul forced on him as a punishment because of his actions, Spike saw that his actions were evil and he fought to get his soul back so he could do good and be worthy of her. That one thing is what makes her trust him and try to undo the First's control over him, because she knows he was only vulnerable due to the insanity dealing with all his past evil did to him after he got his soul back and he was living in the school basement. Loving Angel gave her a greater insight into what Spike is going through and being loved by Spike gives her a greater understanding of him than Giles or anyone else could ever have.
she is in love with spike
@@lgbtorion If believing that makes you happy, go for it. Far be it for me to ruin anyone's happiness!
The First has tried to get Angel, Willow, Spike, and potentials to kill themselves. She recognizes that.
She probably understands how The First works way better than Giles having seen what it did to Angel in Amends personally and what that means in terms of who The First considers a threat. The speech she gave Angel about continuing to fight I believe she basically also gave Spike by saying she believes he can do good in this world. Giles did not witness enough of that to understand.
I could watch Spike destroy principal woods a billion times & it will never get old. It’s so satisfying.
The one thing I wish was different in this episode is that Spike had let Robin keep the coat. It feels like the only reason he took it back was so Spike could keep his cool look. It would have been more fitting to give him a wardrobe change, signifying the changes to his character with a soul.
But it would also go against his view on the whole situation. He doesn't feel that kind of remorse, he is not sorry it came to this duel. He understands that at this time it was Slayer against Vampire. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't owe Wood anything.
Angel said (in season 1 of Buffy... episode Angel) when you become a vampire, the demon takes your body, but it doesn't get your soul. That's gone. No conscience, no remorse...Spike seemed to manage to have retained some of his humanity for some reason when he was first vamped. I think the trigger of him losing himself completely, was the lose of his mother and running around with Dru afterward. This made him the demon he became.
Because the demon has your own memory and everything you had before he possessed your body, twisting it and making it evilish. Angel was a piece of shit as a human who didn't give a damn about anything but drinking and whoring, so once he became a vampire he cared about nothing but being evil. Spike loved art, sport, his mother, he was very sentimental, all of that was twisted when he became a vampire, that's why he was like this. The strongest your personality is as a human the more the demon will be influenced by it once you become a vampire. Spike, Drusilla, Harmony, all of them had strong personalities as human, Angel no.
The new mic sounds great! Just remember to keep your volume close the show you're watching. If you lower the volume of the show, also lower your mic volume to match.
It was quite minor, but you could always run the audio track through software like audacity or adobe audition to clean it up. It’s called noise reduction and only takes a minute! Adobe premiere also has the option if you already use that (reduce noise) 👍
Key difference.
Angelus had a soul forced on him
Soulless Spike sought to get a soul
4:09 There were 2 where she died, Season 1 and season 5.
The one thing I dont agree with Spike on is that I dont think Robins mom could quit if she wanted. The watchers council needs a slayer... they probably wold have killed her to get a new one.
I think she saw him suffer when he got his soul back and she feels for him... Also she has to defend a pack of kinda powerless girls alone and can only really rely on spike for the muscle at least, maybe Willow but she is scared of using "real" magic
When I used to watch this episode Giles used to really annoy me (Buffy has always put her duty above anything pretty much) and I thought it was a bit out of character but today I was really listening to Giles while he was try to distract her and I was reminded of when Buffy refused to kill Dawn to save the world. Still I think that’s pretty different than refusing to kill Spike but maybe Giles didn’t make that distinction. There was one more thing he said, though, which was something like, you’re still willing to protect him even after what he did to you. It made me think in a way, maybe, Giles doesn’t forgive Spike for what he did to Buffy.
It’s just like how you said that Wood can’t see the difference between souled Spike and demon Spike, I think Giles can’t either, which would track being Angelus killed Jenny and Giles never really looked at Angel the same again. Hmnm. Crazy that after 25ish yrs I still pick up on things or at least theories.
Great reaction!
Haha! I know how it all plays out and will not post spoilers. But all this will make sense in the end.
After you finish Buffyverse I got two videos that are fan made to react to cause they are really really good
The biggest problem for some fans is that the difference between angel and angelus is like jekyl and hyde and what we see in spike pre and post soul is negligent. People forget that angel just after resouling still wanted to ride with darla and the crew and be a monster..he didnt differ much in the 18th-19th century. What we see now as angel is him for over a 100 years with a soul..but the demon that was angelus didnt change. Spike now is similar to him presoul, but in a 100 years he may be quite different and then after loosing his soul can be the demon-spike from yesterday.
Yeah, pretty much the difference between Angel and Spike was the differences in the kind of humans they were before being turned. Liam (Angel) was a garbage person. A violent womanizer, a drunk and basically a waste of oxygen. William (Spike) was a mild-mannered, gentle, romantic poet who stayed home to care for his ailing mother. Even with souls, they were totally different people. The demon side of them only had that to work with, which is why Angelus was the most viciously cruel vampire of his age, while Spike was definitely violent, but still spent his time in the beginning of the show taking care of Dru when she was hurt. Sure, he was evil and did all the evil things, but he was more into the fun of a big fight, while Angelus took his time driving women insane or killing a man's whole family just to cause him psychological pain.
I wish they had addressed the parallels Giles must have felt between this situation and when he killed Ben because Buffy 'couldn't'. An innocent soul, harboring a terrible, powerful evil that they aren't in control of. Almost no one condemns Giles for making that decision. Granted, we had seen Ben turn coward and give up Dawn at that point, but Giles and the gang hadn't.
I'll admit, I was completely on his side with Ben and furious in this instance, but I can see where Giles must have thought this was another dark thing he was going to have to do.
Fun fact: Lestat the vampire from interview with vampire and queen of the damed first person he turned was his mother
It works out a bit better for him
33:30 "if the vampire is thinking out free will" . I think Robin views thew vampires in this show, as if it was the vampire diaries,where they chose to turn off their humanity. (No hate here, just mentioning facts). The vampires in the buffyverse, cannot turn their humanity on and off because they dont have souls. The body is inhabited by the demon, the Turok-Han, which is why their face reveals a part of that demon when they go into vampire mode. This is also why the first asks. " Do you want to see a real vampire?"
Think about it Elie. You are currently watching season 4 of Angel. What's going on there at this point in their season is playing into this episode.
Cordy is sleeping with Connor, so Willow is being invited to a threesome?
@@RLucas3000 yeah. Let's go with that
You don't become a /completely/ different person as a vampire. More you lose your conscience and the ability to empathize. At that point, it's all about /your/ self-preservation and /your/ wants and /your/ needs. Guilt and understanding of the other side do not factor in. But it doesn't mean you're totally someone else. Hence why Spike's first move as a vampire was to sire his mother to free her from her sickness, why Angelus was so brutal with the slaughter of his family/father, why Harmony had an aversion to biting Cordelia, why Drusilla still resented Angel for killing her family in season 2 of Buffy. The soulless being is not all that different from the souled one - it just kind of has different ways of handling things and different ways of thinking. (Unfortunately, it kind of doesn't line up with Angel season 4 and how they seemed to want to make Angel and Angelus two distinct entities.... but I digress.) Spike's mother's cruelty, then, might have been born from some resentment and an exhilaration she felt at finally being free after probably having felt shackled by her illness (and motherhood and before that wifehood) for such a long time.
But generally I think the writers were just kind of...confused? They've certainly gone back and forth.
She died in the Harvest and the Gift. Also, the First Slayer killed her in a dream at the end of season 4 but I think everyone doesn’t count that as “dying”
To say any more about Spike, is to give away the remainder of the series. Not giving you any more answers.
Even if Spike has a soul now, the demon is still in him. That's how it works, see Angel - Angelus. But whit a soul, no chip, the trigger disactivated he has proved with Woods that he is able to control it and make his own decision. I'm with Buffy on this. She's proven more than once that she is ready to sacrifice everything to the cause, the man she loved, also her own life... but they still question her role. They want a general, but they're not ready to follow her
Audio sounds good. Great reaction
I think one point is often forgotten, say Giles is right (Which he is clearly not) and Buffy can't think straight because of her feelings for spike. If they then kill spike, she would be devastated. As her most trusted father figure just helped murder him. How would she be a good leader to them after that? So that logic doesn't make sense. Best option would have been to lock him up or send him away if he really was a threat. But how explained in many of the other comments Giles didn't listen to Buffy's reasoning at all. Plus he had been away from the group to long, he only knows little about the relationship with spike, how is he so sure that Buffy is so deeply into him. Shows the same in season 6 when none of the others saw what Buffy was going through. And got worried/angry because she didn't behave like what they wanted/expected.
Amazing episode ❤️👏🏻
I really don’t like the fact that they had Buffy say that she let Dawn die… why undo the season 5 ending.
The mission is what Matters, said by the Slayers. Then buffy said what his mother use to say.
3415 "Are we getting to the stage right now, where Buffy doesnt want to admit ....about Spike".
Buffy is giving Spike the same exact, no judgement pass as she did for Angel after he was Angelus. Plus Spike doesnt have the curse trigger that Angel does. So, wouldnt that make him less dangerous than Angel?
Edit: i suppoose we could say that he had a sort of "curse trigger", but he worked through that now.
I like the new mic! Looks and sounds good to me
Spike was sexually assaulted by his mother when she turned into a vampire.
Buffy literally cares about Spike more than everyone else. Even Dawn
I don’t think that’s true at all. she cares about him, absolutely, but not more than dawn and not more than her duty as a slayer.
They specifically hired the actress who plays spikes mom because they wanted her to look like Sarah Michelle Gellar as an old lady. Which she does. Now we can see not only Robin but spike has mother issues. The actress who plays his mother does such a great job. Sweet and nurturing in life and in death she is evil. Even spike was like ummm mom you ok why are you saying these things lol.
There again we see the difference between spike becoming a new vampire and his mother. Spike was really still William even then. Becoming like angelus warped him and well over time he did become that monster. I believe the chip gave William that man still stuck inside of spike some breathing room sort of speak to shine through. Example: fool for love. Buffy says
" your beneath me"
Spike almost Burt's into tears (that's William) then you see the demon snap back and he gets that look on his face that says this but he just made a mistake(spike) he grabs a shotgun but then sees her crying and (William pops in again)
Buffy is saying that if wood wants to play stupid games, he’s gonna win stupid prizes. He can’t take spike, he WILL die, and Buffy isn’t gonna keep running to save his ass. She doesn’t have time for it, and she’s right. If he wants to be stupid and get himself killed, that’s on him.
Maybe it’s the journey. Maybe it’s just what Buffy does to people. But over the last 3 or 4 videos of each show. I’ve noticed a confidence or comfort in you Elie. Something. It’s hard to pinpoint. But I hope you get my meaning.
I’d like for you to pay more attention to the little things. Woods mother told him when he was a child “the mission is what matters” Buffy told him the same thing after his fight with Spike. Two slayers told him being a slayer is more important than him and his feelings.
1:17 that’s so weird considering I’ve watched several people watching this and they don’t do any of what u do yet their stuff is still on here btw I can hear this episode fine
Having a child and being the Slayer go together you don't love one over the other. A slayer (Nicki) made it work. Her son wood was her responsibility so she had a job to do. Doesn't mean she didn't love her son. You don't choose to be a slayer. You can't run from it. Hide from it. You embrace it. We example, just look at Buffy. A slayer has enough love to go around.
28:39 imo, being a slayer means that you have erveryones children at stake, not just your own. And why would your own child be more important than someone elses? If Nikki hadnt done what she did, maybe Buffy probably wouldn´t even exist. We would have gotten Faith at some point perhaps, turned evil and stayed that way and the end of the world. So sometimes brave people, people with power, have to be harsh. Its essential for all of us. Note that i say harsh and not cruel. Edit. spelling mistakes.
For me, there is no difference in Spike or Angel with or without a soul. A soul does not make you good, it just allows to accept the evil that is within all of us. In Angel the whole point of why he is saving souls is to one day have his soul and existence cleansed. The Prophecy we learn about at the end of season 1 for him is to become human once he has atoned for his past. He is as much accountable for his actions as a human, to a Vampire then to a hundred years now of being a Vampire with a soul but still he has not done enough. In this episode Spike soul does allow him to let Woods live where without he would have killed him. But as he just said this is a one time pass. He would still have no issues killing him now with his soul. On a side note Spike still feels neutered with his soul much in the same way his chip was preventing him to act as himself for the last few seasons. Guess I am just not a fan of Neutered Spike. I miss season 1 and 2 Spike where he was actually a threat. How many times has the show suggested to us they were going to finally kill this gimp, and then didn't >
*Continuity Error:* In the third episode of the sixth season, when Spike learns that Buffy has come back to life, he sees her bleeding knuckles. He guesses that she had to punch and scratch her way out of her own coffin. Buffy confirms that that's what she had to do. Then Spike looks at her and says, "I had to do that myself." But here in this episode, we learn that Spike never did that. He didn't even have a funeral. He just stayed out all night as a human until Drusilla sired him. Then she stayed with him until he woke up as a vampire, which is when they both went to his mom's house where she was worried sick about him. Also, how did they come in uninvited???
Actually in Angel it was shown that Drusilla likes to bury the ones she is about to sire.
@@Kal911 exactly.
Drusilla buried him
@@daniig62 Makes sense. Still wondering how Spike and Drusilla got in the house uninvited though.
@@davidmeadows5627 ….by his mother. Duh?
Great episode about Spike and Wood, even if I don't really like the writting about Giles in this one. Buffy always respected himself so that is not the best way for their relationship.
Giles had his reasons to be worried, but Buffy DID act like a general in the end.
This is another reason why I really dislike Buffy (the character) this season. Giles was 100% right. Magic did NOT cure Spike of his trigger and at that point they had exhausted all their options on curing him. He was a major liability that could've ruined their entire mission by siding with the First. The most annoying thing is that not long ago, Buffy minimized all of her friend's problems because "this is a war". Even does it again this episode. Yet when it comes to her problems and her feelings for Spike, she is willing to jeopardize the entire mission to keep him alive. Not only that, she does a really shoddy job at containing him. Either way you look at it, Wood and Giles were correct. Either they kill Spike and remove a liability, or what actually happened, their plan managed to actually cure him. People in the Buffy fandom are unfortunately too inside Buffy's behind to ever admit she could be in the wrong. But this was one of her first major mistakes, and one of the reasons, of many, she's one of my least favorite characters this season.
Dont blame Buffy season 7 was all about making spike a saint and casting everyone else a side. Joss was done with SMG at this point.
of course you would say this Angelus!😅but seriously just because people agree that Buffy was right doesnt necessarily mean theyre up her behind lol thats generalising to me. Just because they go againt what your saying doesnt mean people opinions arent valid. I love Buffy but doesnt mean i havent disagreed with her decisions.
@@paulinerobertson6836 I've been in the fandom for years, and to avoid spoilers I won't say specifically what, but there's an upcoming episode that's particularly disliked by the fandom. And in that episode, most fans side with Buffy despite her being in the wrong. I based my statement on her continuous errors in season 7 that everyone does mental gymnastics over to try their hardest to convince themselves Buffy is right and every single other character in the show is wrong despite them all not agreeing with her. This tells me just that: everyone just kisses Buffy's ass no matter how in the wrong she is.
@@angelus1738 it's just sounds to me like your saying your "opinion" is right and everyone else is wrong, your saying it like it's a fact,it's not,it's just how you view it, which is fair enough but to say it like everyone who agrees with Buffy is a kiss arse and those who don't agree are true and righteous LOL
@@paulinerobertson6836 Yes, I am. Because she's factually in the wrong lol it's not an opinion that in that certain scene there was a way to do what was needed to be done that would've been best for everyone. This is then later confirmed in the show itself in multiple ways. But the fandom ignores these instances and choose to continue to "hate all of Buffy's friends" for what happened
Even though he should have tried harder to convince her rather than go behind Buffy's back, I agree with Giles here. Spike was a liability to them all. And that has nothing to do with the sincerity of his reformation, it is foolish of them to leave him free when the First can take control of him at any time. Look at the early scene in this very episode. Buffy, Spike, and Wood are out patrolling and run into a few vampires. Buffy is busy fighting and Spike saves Wood's life. If the First had any common sense, it could have triggered Spike right before that. Meaning Wood dies, and Buffy is alone versus a whole gang of vampires, plus Spike who has taken out 2 slayers on his own. Buffy would be dead and that's the entire world gone since she isn't there to stop its plan.
32:36 "the mission is what matters is what Woods mom told him aswell." I think he will get it because of that.
Giles is just as big picture thinking as Buffy. The guy killed Ben, the guy that saved his life a few days previous, for the greater good when Buffy couldn’t. Buffy does has a soft spot for Spike or she would have ensured that Spike’s trigger was deactivated as Giles brought up and looked into it. Principal Wood plans doubt into Giles’ mind… I just wish Giles talked to Buffy instead of deceive her… Buffy’s father figure lying to her.
Robin's father of im not mistaken is Niki woods watcher
I never really liked Giles' reasoning for removing the chip. He's worried the First will take over Spike and Spike will start killing again...except that was happening even with the chip. So it didn't feel like a very Giles argument. Yes, Spike's demon will always be there. Unlike Angel, I feel like Spike embraces the demon a bit more. We don't see quite so many differences between his personality from his soulless self as we with Angel and Angelous. Spike has more control over his demon, in my opinion. In that sense, I see him as LESS dangerous. Also, as with other things with The First, we don't know how much it's fibbing in order to have something like this happen. Remember how it tried to get Willow to kill herself? Because she's a potential threat to it with her magic. Meanwhile, given how close Spike was with his mom, is it really any surprise how he took to Joyce?
When you transform into a vampire you lose your soul...
Lies My Parents Told Me is one of the best episodes from any Season of the show. Brilliant start in NYC back in 1977 with Spike and Wood's mother fighting it out in Central Park. Once the Prokaroyte Stone is entered into Spikes body Giles believes they will find the Trigger for Spike. Of course this event is traumatic for Spike where we see flashbacks to how he sired his own mother. Wood and Giles conspire to kill Spike but must keep Buffy out of the way, as she would stop this. Once Wood has Spike in his house we see him tooling up to kill Spike. Once again he plays the Trigger song and we are taken back to him and his mother this time very disturbing with incestuous undertones, as the Demon is within his mother is unleashed. Spike confronts Wood about his own mother, who Spike claims didn't love him enough as she was a Slayer and that was her priority. When Giles and Buffy have the conversation in the graveyard, we can see Buffy now say if she had to she would kill Dawn to save the World. We can see how Buffy is just focussed on The War ahead. When she realises Giles has stalled her she races to Woods house to find Spike outside. Spike spares Woods life, and Buffy has a very powerful conversation with Woods where she tells him straight out that if Spike decides to kill him, she will not stop him. One of the best episodes of S7 by far.
Why would you have to mute a nearly 400 year old song??
Buffy wasn’t wrong. Besides, her spike was the strongest warrior they had.
Spike was right about the Slayers
I also must point out that while I love this ep, it has a huge gaping hole in it where it ignores the show’s own long established lore. When a vamp is made a demon sets up shop in the body. And it has the human’s memories but it isn’t them. It’s a demon. And while that has proven true over the years, including here with Spike’s mother, somehow it didn’t happen with Spike. He seemingly was still the same soft-spoken, mother-doting son after Dru turned him. Huh? I choose to overlook it as those scenes, unlike ones from earlier episodes, were not not objective flashbacks but subjective memories that Spike was experiencing in current times, soul and all. Better that than just poor writing to try to get some pathos from the Spike-Mother Vamp scenes.
It's established that the vampire is different and it has been established with Spike too regarding the things he was willing to do whilst he had no soul vs what he is like at this point in the series. Spike has also seemed like one of the most human vampires though, but he's not the only one who kept a similar personality. Harmony is another vampire who is not much different to her human personality but was evidently shown to be capable of and on the side of evil. Spike may have still been soft-spoken and mother-doting, but he did still just kill his mother to turn her into a vampire and was still capable of horrific things - the same way Harmony is still the same shallow and childish personality but then started killing people and being capable of evil after she became a vampire. The vampire retains varying degrees of their original human personality but is usually a corrupted version of that, we can even see this back in season 3 with the dopplegangland willow being somewhat of a pre-revelation of willow's sexuality along with having some of the same mannerisms. So, whilst it's shown clearly that the vampire is to be treated as a whole different thing, it doesn't necessarily mean a total personality conversion and never has.
@@maryf720It’s not about his overall personality. It’s about not behaving like a demon when he was turned. He didn’t turn his mother to be evil. He still loved her and turned her to cure her of her illness and make her live forever. He did it out of love for her. That’s not very demon-like. As Buffy stresses in “Lie To Me” the demon is NOT the same person even though it has the memories of the human it replaced.
It was established by Giles, with a very specific line, that some vampires are more vicious than others. He says Angelus was particularly vicious. Some vampires, like Spike and Harmony, are more like their human counterparts. When a demon enters their body, they keep all the memories of their human selves and in a way become them. Spike's feelings of love were so strong, that even his vampire self kept them albeit in a more sinister and obsessive way. That's why he's selfish enough to turn his mother. Think about it, if he truly loved his mom the way a normal human would, why would he turn her? Why would he turn her into a monster and ruin her life? That's because the love Soulless Spike feels has always been a twisted, obsessive, selfish thing. Never true human love because he's a demon.
@@kuwabarawastaken4235 That doesn’t seem to mesh with how James Marsters and Caroline Lagerfelt played that scene though. But I do agree that there is definite selfish tendencies as well in his turning her. Plus, I don’t know anyone who felt Spike was more poet and less vicious killer in seasons 2 thru 4. In fact, he was described as the exact opposite. Even Angel said when Spike first came to town that he was among the worst of the worst and that he never gives up. It wan’t until Fool For Love in S5 that they gave Spike a back story of gentle poet to contrast with how he’d been depicted up to then. Perhaps if the series had shown more new vampires weeping over their beloved parents or family members rather than immediately start killing people, then I could buy it more readily. But it seems more a one-off to get a poignant scene between Spike and Anne.
@@johnmoreland6089 that is a good one… sometimes I just tell myself that Spike’s differences from all the other vampires is just an anomaly that make him special and is a contributing factor to being a big player in the battle of good versus evil. Or that demons are different like humans in which case some are more vicious than others. Yours is better.
Actually. I take it back. The mic sounded great.
Yeah I think Buffy was completely out of line this episode. Her obsession with Spike is really starting to cloud her judgment and I'm already sick of it. Giles is yet again right like he always is.
yip ludicrous storyline.
23:25 SEE
Thanks, great reaction.
There's an episode way back with Angel where Buffy says vampires are nothing like the people they were and Angel started to disagree. My guess is that there's i probably part of the original person, at least personality.
I realize vampires are fiction and different roles exist in different pieces of fiction, but within Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I feel ridiculous for making the distinction, but since otherwise people will be blotchy about different vampire specifications in different pieces of fiction. And because i like vampires specifically because they have personalities.
Finally, do you shave your pits? Surprising thing to see a boy do. At least from the states, it makes you look a bit like a child or a woman. Not ment as insult, i promise.
I can't say anything about the season, just that it's completely worth it. Have fun, kid.
yes i do hahahaha
The microphone provides much easier listening for the episode. Thanks.
I have that same mic xD
ruclips.net/video/PIZygO0h3ss/видео.html. I hope this link works. when Buffy first premiered they had this little snippet at the beginning I always like this clip.
Another reactor disguised a song in Firefly by putting some piano play / random noises over the track to get past copyright.
Spike and Angel's soul situations are diffirent. Angel cursed by gypsies and Angel can lose his soul any time if he has happy moment but Spike cant lose his soul until he find away get rid of his soul or someone take his soul. Yes there is a chance Spike can lose his soul but it is difficult. Angel can lose his soul more easyly than Spike. Angel can never be happy but Spike can be. I can understan all sides but Giles and Robin Wood was wrong in my opinion. You can't make grudge by feeling when you colese your eyes to everything. And this is what Wood and Giles did in my opinion. Giles never like Angel and Spike. Most of the time he was against them. Even Angel came back from hell Giles didn't forgive him. He knows that was Angelus killed Jenny not Angel but he still blamed Angel. Same thing, feelings is for Spike too. Giles didn't believe in Spike, didn't believe tha he is changed and everythin everything. He saw him as a threat. Yes he is right, Spike can triger any time by The First but that doesn't mean you have to kill him. Spike really has changed when he got his soul back and Buffy saw that. She tried to find away without a killing for his triger and she made her choice. Giles didn't respect slayers choice so he planed to kill Spike with Robin Wood by himself. not even ask Buffy or get her pemision. I can't side with Giles and Wood. Everybody needs a small break even in the war. I can't side with him in this subject too. I can understand them but I can't be with them. Buffy is right way since the begining. Rigth or wrong choices. She is on the good way byherself. I think she learned enough to be a slayer and a leader. But I hated when she said if I have to kill Dawn I will. I really didn't like this, still don't. Its not like season 5 Buffy try to porotect Dawn not to kill by anycost. But I gues this scene proves that Buffy changed and growed more. And one more thing I'm sure Nikki loved her son Wood. just its diffirent than Spike's and Buffy's
These are my thoughts and opinions. I always thought about theese. In that time so many people arguing sharing their thought about these. I know this is very difficult and complicated. There are so many diffirent opinions :) Thank you again this amazing reactions and your analysis. I enjoyed so much. I loved you new microphone by the way, it looks perfect. Your voice is coming more clear
My personal worst episode of all 7 seasons of Buffy and that says alot and shows you the desperate lengths the writers have went to to justify Spike assaulting Buffy and the fact she apparently could just shrugged it off.
Spike was a ruthless vampire killing 2 slayers yet here they make his vampire self a wimpy mommas boy to feed their narrative. Also bringing incest into it was so distasteful. But then he coerced Buffy into public and anal sex so what can be worse than that when trying to redeem him.
Spike has still done NOTHING to show he is a hero or champion other than his obsession for protecting Buffy. For him to tell Wood he has no sympathy for him cos he's a vampire means he shouldn't care what he did to Buffy either. It's why the whole turning Spike into a saint is absolute crap storytelling.
If you knew from the beginning you loved your mum and what she did to you was wrong then you've had empathy and emotional intelligence for 100s of years, the fact you've went on to kill and r*pe hundreds just doesn't sit right.
Also the fact he takes Woods mothers jacket back and wear it is disgusting - does Buffy love that about him too? If he had killed Joyce would Buffy be fine with it cos he has a soul now she doesn't even know what an unsoulled Spike is like since he's still or was triggered by the first.
The only people making sense in this episode was Giles and Woods and even Anya, ugh honestly the show should have ended after season 5.
Every ounce of what makes them human is gone when they are turned into a vampire, hence the whole no soul deal.