Is Anyone Else Out There? with Dan Werthimer
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- SETI is the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, a passive listening experiment, while METI's goals are to be the sender hoping a signal reaches a similar or more advanced civilization. But is this a good idea? Who get's to decide who and what is sent, and what if sending those messages leads to our entire planet's destruction?
Dan Werthimer is the Co-Founder and Chief Scientist of the SETI@Home Project at the University of California, Berkeley. He specializes in signal processing for radio astronomy. He has been doing SETI since 1979, and he runs the SERENDIP, Optical SETI, and CASPER projects.
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Do you think METI is a dangerous idea?
My cheeky answer: I have read Greg Bear and I have also read a bit about the history of the discovery of the New World. So yep. 😄
The potential upside of Contact is great! The potential downside is essentially infinite: complete annihilation. Plug that downside into the risk assessment formula and it doesn't really matter what the probabilities of each outcome are, does it?
No intelligent aliens so no.
I'm hesitant to "communicate" with fellow Earthlings, so, yes: METI = Bad Idea.
Unless habitable planets like earth are incredibly rare and the aliens need it to survive, I'd imagine they would be more than capable of gathering resources they need without ever visiting us.
Noone is there to listen. Only sludge worlds.
I still believe distance is the reason we have yet to find another civilization. Still though I wonder about possible signals from passing ships. Just because there was a one off signal doesn't mean it came from a planet. Perhaps the WOW signal was from a passing star ship and we just happen to intercept it. Thanks for the episode.
Ohhhhh… VERY cool thought. That’s what I believe now ! Thanks
I guess we are just happy to be early.
There was that other signal in 1993 that came from an unoccupied position in space that could have been a starship.
I agree. I believe that IF we find and confirm an artificial radio signal in the future it is likely to be from some type of beacon scanning our area OR a long distance "radio lighthouse" used for internal communication (maybe for their ships as you speculate on). Maybe a simple beacon emitting coordinates and such to and from their worlds - the WOW signal match that type of object also. I believe it would be very unlikely that it contains some sort of message to us as they have no "easy way" of knowing that we are here or what type of technological level we are on and so on.
I think we haven’t found life simply because we don’t have the technology to see the surface of planets outside of our solar system
You totally need to invite Seth Shostak to your podcast. You have so many SETI topics on your channel and Seth is always so eager to take part in any SETI related interview, let alone on popular channels like this. Seriously please consider this!
He was one of our first guests ever, but we do need to do a second episode with him. Here is the first episode: ruclips.net/video/ag6g0y0H9ww/видео.html
He's been on and very likely will be back:
ruclips.net/video/ag6g0y0H9ww/видео.html
@@EventHorizonShow You know, I think I might have seen it before, but never realised it was on this channel...definitely need to do episode no.2 though!
Time change so I am sure we need new episode with Seth Shostak!
@@EventHorizonShow what about Gary “Larry” Nolan?
The worst part about METI is that they'd not be endangering any of the people on Earth right now, but rather they would be rolling the dice and potentially endangering people who will not be born for hundreds if not thousands of years.
I dont think we need to worry. We will either be gone or very advanced. I dont think humans would survive the stone age again.
I don't know how do you get these people to interview, but I think you are doing a great job. Keep it up!
I suspect, given the small size of the Professional SETI community, he is well known in their circle.
Dan absolutely made sense. No clickbait theories about the WOW signal but common sense.
This episode of Event Horizon has been one of the most entertaining, interesting, and intelligent interviews I’ve ever enjoyed, regardless of creator.
Kudos to both JMG and Dan Werthimer for this “peek behind the curtain” at the current state of SETI, future paths SETI might take, as well as other intelligent and related topics.
My personal vote on METI is NO. I was also one of the original SETI @ HOME participants and competitively enjoyed top ratings in my chosen S@H group. In my profile I had a long detailed essay of sorts expressing my negative thoughts regarding METI, at that time. Those thoughts of mine have not changed over the decades. METI is still a bad idea.
One of the reasons why METI could be so much more problematic than the regular Radio Frequency Emissions we broadcast is that a targeted METI transmission can be done with an extremely powerful, megawatt class transmitter, through a narrow beam, very high gain, dish antenna making its signal detectable MUCH MUCH further away than any of the regular radio broadcasts that we emit.
If I remember correctly, the targeted METI signal that Arecibo transmitted in the 70s or 80s was aimed at M13, a globular cluster of stars, on the outskirts of our Milky Way galaxy, and it was claimed at the time of the transmission, that it would be detectable at M13 by a similarly capable Arecibo class instrument at that distance!!!!!!
I’ll have to post this comment, then look up the approximate distance to M13 and come back and edit-add it to the bottom of this comment since I can’t remember that distance anymore with my aging brain.
Whatever that distance is to M13, it is many times more distant than our regular radio broadcasts would ever be detectable from.
Still sounds dangerous to me!
… ON EDIT …
M13 is over 22,000 (‼️) light years away. Way way way beyond what our regular radio frequency broadcasts could ever reach. Hundreds of times further.
So why did they think an Arecibo class instrument could read the signal? Seems like a pretty trivial calculation
My favorite moment of the week. Thank you Event Horizon.
I had the Seti on my computer processing 24/7. As a screen saver back in day.
I think it’s a combination of things, rare earth, rare intelligence, interstellar travel is so difficult, not easy to see objects so far away just the sheer size of everything
totally agree..
A truly scary potential signal that give me chills to think about is "Be Quiet, it/they will hear you!"
Nah, we're humans. We fight against the dying of the light.
We should transmit that.
@@TheNoodlyAppendage and follow up with an interstellar version of a war of the worlds type broadcast. And they the invaders are then headed to you next at the end. . that would be funny.
As we face our own extinction, we ask if there is anyone else out there. The Fermi Paradox is a thing, people. Work harder at survival.
Thank you! My thoughts exactly.
As many in the comments pointed out, the distance is only plausible explanation for not discovering any ET life which I'm pretty sure do exist, microbial atleast.
There is also the Rare Earth Hypothesis.
"Their interest must be predicated on our being technological." It's also possible that hyperadvanced ETs arrived millions of years ago, began "gardening" the planet, and we're just another one of their cultivations.
Once technological advancement stagnates we might need to set up "do overs" to see if a society with different starting condition develops in a way we never would of thought of.....heck different base maths....different branches such as biological computing or whatnot.
Constant gardeners 😂
DNA record would likely show it. AFAIK everything looks natural.
@@bozo5632 I dunno the precambrian explosion is pretty sus.
@@Kwitzats AFAIK that explosion was the sudden appearance of hard parts that could be preserved, more than a sudden explosion of wacky critters.
"They didn't get gorillas crawling out of their test tube" 🤣
That was awesome!
There's a nebula named after a tarantula therefore i question the prudence of letting the universe know we're here... 🕷️🕸️
Your screen-name...ah, Cancerization... eventually, we will all be like Dr. Zoidberg.
@@ryomichael lol, it's actually a Morrowind reference
I so agree that we shouldn’t be announcing our presence! Maybe we are very visible already, maybe they’re already visiting! But we are advancing technologically and we have no idea what the risks are and it’s also not very democratic to do that without our agreement!
Wow, the class that he mentioned was quite interesting. "The boys wanted to use machine guns to get through the ice, but the girls wanted to build a half meter long submarine and coat it with a radioactive material that has a short half-life so it would stay hot and melt its way through the ice and also coat the hull of the submarite with thermopiles to generate electricity". This middle school class represents the world so accurately... It's no coincidence that Einstein and Stephen Hawkins were both women.
Oh yes, I forgot about Sir Isaac Newton. She was one of the most brilliant minds of all time.
Wut
@@bigcauc7530 You must be a male
@@sombra1111 I have discovered that RUclips censors the word @boy. Lol. It ghosted your reply in the comment section so I can't see it unless I click the notification 😂
@@bigcauc7530 😤
love this community! thanks Godier!
According to work done by David Kipping and Robert Gray roughly 2 more months of data is necessary to confirm or deny the extraterrestrial origin of the Wow signal. David actually did a video on it on the Cool Worlds channel.
Yes we’re aware.
I find it very strange for someone involved with seti saying flat out that I must have been interference from an earth signal or satellite, only objective thing he could say about it is …..we don’t know what it was.
Recently I saw a same sort of reaction from scientists like Neil deGrasse Tyson and Lawrence Krauss where they were sure Avi Loeb was wrong and Oumuamua was just a rock , even tho Professor Loeb was just objective and said it could be anything…..we just don’t know.
I live close to the sea (3 minutes walk) and I often go swimming. There is a beach straight in front of the main promenade/town center. There is no underwaterlife there. Then you can also walk southwestwards over the beach and take a swim there. Guess what, there are fish there, some cute small fish and some bigger fish. Not so long ago, some beaches in Barcelona, Sitges and Vilanova has been closed due to the discovery of some shortfin mako's and some blue sharks. Of course, now you can swim again and the sharks are gone. Moral of the story. You may think that the sea has no life, because you can swim and swim and look underwater and all you can see is sand but no fish, crabs etc whatsoever... But, in reality, the sea is full of life :-)
Can you imagine a species, so advanced, it could first detect us amongst the trillions of stars, then traverse the vast expanses of the universe, in a time frame quick enough where we have existed ( the blink of an eye in cosmic terms) our nuclear weapons wouldn't be much of a defence against something which could do all that.
A species that is so advanced doesn't want anything to do with primitive apes that use their technology to destroy each other. 😉✌
Species like that could skip the whole coming here part.
They probably have access to enough energy, that they can fire an artificial gamma ray burst at us, and sterilize the planet without even coming here.
I have this feeling that nuclear weapons are probably going to be considered dangerous to any technological civilization in the cosmos. There is a lot of power in splitting atoms. And right now, I can't imagine shields being an actual thing in how we envision them today. But they may have technology quick enough to avoid something as slow as a missile if they travel across the universe at even half the speed of light somehow. So many possibilities either way.
In the case that they travel faster than light we probably wouldn’t see them until they are here. And then it’d be too late to even attempt a nuclear defense plan.
No matter how advanced they are, they can't travel anywhere near the speed of light. Even if they travel 99% the speed of light they would take millions or billions of years to get to us.
They can't know we exist since we have been around for 300k and only transmitted signals for under 100 years
I hope Seti at home gets going again, I colonized a whole computer hall with it over a summer at university 🙂
One of your best guests. Great range of topics. I have always wondered how Arecibo transmitted a signal. Now I know.
Alien: "that signal we picked up won't be a problem for a thousand years. But, since we may not be as attentive then as we are now, we need to exterminate them."
I have jumped into the Event Horizon, with John Michael Godier
I have been spaghettified, with John Michael Godier
I believe intelligent species are widely separated in both time and space, interstellar travel is virtually impossible, colonization of other star systems does not happen, and that technological civilizations last for a short time before they use up available energy sources and collapse. We may not be truly “alone” in the universe, but we may as well be.
That's my conclusion except the resource limit causes social collapse more so than energy limitations.
The only one of those I'm confident about is that interstellar civs are non-existent or tiny. The economics of It... Nothing to gain.
A scary message to get: "Be quiet. They might hear you."
1:50 Laughing at you in 200 years? We're laughing at you today 😂
40:00 There is a problem with this argument. In every single case where a more advanced culture has contacted a less advanced culture and wiped them out, the less advanced culture had something the more advanced culture wanted.
That would not be the case in here. There is no resource on Earth that can't be had elsewhere and be easier to access. There is no reason a more advanced culture would wish to conquer us.
They would see us as we see the people of North Sentinel Island. Those people have made it quite clear they have no wish to interact with us. And because they have no recourse we want, we are happy to grant their request.
Their motive would have to be irrational. Not impossible, and it broadens the possibilities.
Hygiene freaks? Religious fanatics? Sex maniacs?
@@bozo5632 Maybe just a constructor fleet. Earth has to be destroyed to make way for a bypass.
Hello Michael, great and informative program. Is possible to host @Timothy Ferris. He is among the team who worked with Carl Sagan for the Voyager voices of the Earth. I think it would be interesting to hear from the Behind the scenes of how those sounds were prepared. He is also very informative in other space related subjects.
Indeed. He was a guest last year! ruclips.net/video/nJYSeNzzfDI/видео.html
@@EventHorizonShow Thanks for the reply... I am gonna listen in immediately. How did I miss out!!
@@EventHorizonShow what about Gary Nolan
I think the reason we haven’t detected any other intelligent life is because our technology is simply too primitive. Advanced civilizations are not going to rely on something as slow as radio signals which communicate merely at the speed of light. We’ve literally just crawled out of the Middle Ages and are still in our scientific and technological infancy. Change is coming fast and with the eventual advent of general AI, I suspect our understanding of physics and the natural world will change fundamentally. I think we overestimate how much we understand in the present day. We’re on the cusp of radical change but we’ll need the singularity before discovery and interface with alien civilizations can become a reality, and at that point it won’t be humans on earth that will be the dominant intelligence.
We still got some memories of middle Ages with us^^
Even scarier thought is that the exponential technological advancement of the past 300 or so years was very much the exception, and not the rule, and we are quickly reaching near the limits of physics and technology.
I wouldn't take it for granted that of course we will invent FTL communications just because technology has advanced exponentially so far.
If this is the case, then that too would be a fermi paradox solution, if you combine it with intelligent life just being fairly rare(maybe 1-3 species per galaxy). Then none of them would have any realistic chance to see or contact each other in a very long time.
Galaxy can be colonized by crawling at sub light speeds, but it's going to take a while, and it could be that the other few(if any) aliens in our galaxy haven't evolved yet, or didn't evolve too far back to have colonized everything yet. Or just went extinct.
The only way this is true is if ftl or ftl communication doesn't break causality. Physicists tell me it definitely without a doubt does and they bust out Penrose diagrams to prove it. I am not convinced.
Maybe I'm looking at it wrong would slowing my perception, biological processes, even entropy at a quantum level(radioactive decay?) be the same as increasing the speed of light? Then traveling near c would have even greater dilation effects!
@@MidWitPride If it takes (ballpark) millions of years to expand across a galaxy, then there are no "million-year civilizations" in our galaxy, or else they'd physically have gotten hear already
If it takes (ballpark) tens of millions of years to expand across a galaxy group, then there are no "ten mega-year civs" in our Local Group (MWG, Andromeda, Triangulum)
If it takes (ballpark) hundreds of millions of years to expand across a galaxy cluster, then there are no "hundred mega-year civs" in our local Virgo Cluster region
But there could be a "ten mega-year civ" elsewhere in our Cluster
Or even a "mega-year civ" elsewhere in our Group
I cannot believe the hubris of sending signals out to other intelligent beings, on behalf of the human race, without first having a conversation with the human race. The consequences could be great, and they will affect everyone.
I wonder how many people simply wish to remain as the center of the universe? The special ones. No. Humanity needs to know in order to continue growing up.
leaders couldn't give a crap about us now
Someone needs to start construction on a conference venue large enough to house 8 Billion people . . . .
Can't wait to hear the opinions of the halfwits that you've invited.
@@genghiscarnage4015 It's called polling, my friend.
@@zekayman No it isn't. You poll giving options. That is far, far removed from having a conversation. Try again.
Is it a dark forest out there? Reminds me of the old (Like me!) AT&T commercial for their long distance phone service, to "Reach out and touch someone." That someone could be Darth Vader in this instance. I say NO! to METI.
You really don’t know what you don’t know, Godier. And no one knows what the existential dangers of blasting our signature into the Heavens might be.
As I click on this thumbnail I think to myself that if there is someone out there, with HUGE enough ears to hear us, it's already too late to be concerned about the possible danger. We've been broadcasting for quite a few decades already. 🤷
Then later in the show, John says, how dangerous would it really be? There is an abundance of stuff in the galaxy, why come here and be destructive to the native life? 🤷 But as the guest says, you can't really estimate the possibilities. Again 🤷 I guess I'd have to say, it's over my pay grade 🙃.
Great show JMG 👏
"Get ready, Ensign Glarr. I want that signal sent as soon as their system comes online. We spent thousands of years searching for signals before we found any sort of galactic community and I don't want these mammals wasting one minute of their precious time.
Steady Ensign, steady... and ... now! Perfect timing and it's unmistakable!
Well done everyone.
Now then, what was their response?"
Fantastic interview, JMG! Thanks!!! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Several things leap to my mind. Suppose alien civilisations don’t use radio? Suppose they’re in the huge timescale where complex animal life exists but not technological. Thirdly suppose they just don’t want to be found? It’s fascinating. Love it. Well done on the channel.
He was great....need to have him on again. (coming from long time listener to both channels)
My favorite podcast in the galaxy
9 minute comment. For everybody further than 9 light minutes away, this video hasn't been uploaded yet
Lol why was the guy shitting on the boys implying they can't think past explosions. I guess he's trying to highlight that girls are good in stem fields which is cool but it's not really a competition. Both sexes have smart kids with good ideas.
My favorite METI method is going outside at night and shouting at the sky.
Yep, Dan, the girls are smart enough to avoid running down all the people of their own gender too.
Always a fan of the dark forest hypothesis
Hiding is too hard. Anyone who can threaten you can detect you much more easily. I don't like dark forest at all.
It might be a quiet graveyard though.
Personally predict that METI would be considered "trespassing", and "any Arecibo ever found guilty thereof would 'have an accident' and be destroyed"
Fantastic episode. Algorithm pellets dispensed.
The Distance of the universe is beyond imagination. But I believe that we would be egotistical to believe that we are the only intelligence to exist in these unimaginable distances
The expanse of time is equally beyond imagination -- a sufficiently ancient civilization, with enough of a "head start", could already have crossed Cosmic distances
It would awesome if you could get and update on the old photo plates search for objects in orbit pre 1959.
This one was sooooooo much better. Love the longer format.
I agree, it was light years better. Speculative science doesn't need to jump off the deep end in order to make compelling content. This is JMG at his finest.
Actually we have been transmitting our techno signature into space for much longer than radio has existed, and much more clearly.
Our radio signatures are rather weak beyond several dozen light years. Perhaps even too weak to pick up no matter how advanced the technology. But we have been polluting our atmosphere with unnatural chemicals since the beginning of the industrial revaluation. And that techno signature will be obvious to anyone able to examine Earth atmosphere with a spectroscope.
As far as we can tell bio-signatures that our planet has been giving off for hundreds of millions of years are quite rare so even before we started getting vertebrates this planet would have been of some interest at least. The idea that aliens advanced enough to effect us somehow missed the obvious life signs here and then neglected to mark us out for further study or as a place where intelligence might arise seems ludicrous to me. It would be different if we discover that earth like worlds are a dime a dozen, but current models don't fit that.
the timing is amazing.... just for bedtime. love this channel
I don't know what, or who, is out there but I want to know so badly!
Want to know what's out there? NOTHING!
Pre thoughts: If we are looking for a multi star system civilization, we would be way far away from whatever technologies they are using to read or send messages that are using what they are. Like using a telegraph when everyone’s using cellphone.
*citation needed
Sorry but for me his view on the WOW signal being RFI undercut his objectivity.
Very mixed thoughts about WOW. Skeptical as I am about it I can't go along with dismissiveness either. A guest on an earlier show very bluntly (condescendingly?) said if it were up to her you would have never heard about the Wow Signal, and complained about wasting resources chasing it. I sympathize, but can't go that far. The minimum distance issue and the nearly perfectly parabolic rise and fall of the signal will always prevent it from being 'case-closed' false positive for me, although non-receipt by the second horn diminishes excitement I otherwise would have.
We've been leaking massive amounts of electromagnetic energy in the form of radio to space for over a hundred years now. The cat's already out of the bag
The inverse square law makes our transmissions virtually undetectable from background radiation beyond a few light years. To be detectable a transmission would need to be very powerful and highly focused. We’ve sent one burst aimed at the globular cluster m13. Should be detectable by any aliens in the cluster in 21,000 years. Assuming they’re listening in our direction during the right 3-minute window.
It hasn't traveled far at all in relation to where intelligent life probably is. I don't think intelligence is even within 200 light years of us. By the time our signals reach a civilization it could be so far away the signals are diffuse and aren't detected.
10:30 the way John says “interesting!” makes it sound like it was added in post production 😂 😂
Great interview! (As always
Whenever I worked on any computer I’d put SETI@Home on it as the screen saver. I had one old family members ran for years with little interruption.
As always, very interesting!
Great. Friday morning in Perth Australia having breakfast listening to my favourite blog cast.
We can’t hide anyway. We’re too noisy with a tech and even then anyone observing the planet would see life from the bio signature anyway. So we might aswell put our feelers out and say “hey we don’t mean no harm, is anyone there”
What about a potential existential shock for a species behind us? One that has just developed radio, and wasn't ready to discover the existence of a more advanced civilization, meaning us? If we don't know their temperament and psychology, maybe we'd be volunteering them for a risk.
That little girl was cheating 😂 She binged trough this and other similar channels a few times.
Maybe try higher frequencies, 50Ghz and up, I don't think there is much using that high frequency. Also laser.
If the Wow signal is interference, then it should have repeated. I really get the feeling that the powers that be don't want anything to do with ET.
Yes, short- pulsed signals is what we should listen for. That's what we'd send. Though we shouldn't send.
Great episode :D have a good weekend event horizon! and everyone reading the comments!
This is one of the best conversations I have heard on your channel.
Very interesting and thought provoking.
Maybe it's time to let the little girls run NASA?
Speculation is fun, but it's very good to hear from somebody who's actually doing the work.
Yeah... The good work of planting baseballs. 🤦
2 thumbs up for NOT transmitting (ie METI)!
The Earth having ‘screamed’ its biosphere for countless years, could very well be a shout among millions of such planets overall - while a distinct and suitably amplified techno signal is quite likely to be exponentially less frequent, all other factors being largely equal.
Thus, a self-generated and basically passive biosphere ‘message’ has obviously already sat unanswered (to our current knowledge) over many millions of years, while the much-scarcer trumpeting of a clearly technological message, regardless of its content, may find itself sitting virtually stark naked in what may very well amount to a ‘dark forest’ of many benign entities, and only a handful of malign, super-intelligent predatory species, long equipped with super luminal transportation and exquisitely fine homing technology.
Indeed, all it would take is one such still-unalerted, technologically far advanced berserker - and, thanks to a mere handful of chirping self-selected METI enthusiasts, we might as well kiss our collective a** goodbye…👎
Great guest and topic!
Happy Thursday everyone.
Not everyone. It's already Friday morning where I'm.
I’ve heard the story about the middle school kids.... is this a re upload ?
I had a similar idea of a lander landing on one of the ice moons and lowering a probe that contain an RTG into the ice. The probe would have to spool out cable from within itself because the ice would re freeze behind the probe as it goes. That cable could be used to transmit data back to the lander and then back to earth.
JMG: you are a great interviewer and I have been listening to your channel for a few years but small criticism: why did you let the guest dismiss WOW! like that without politely pushing back? I watch your wow video all the time and you had perfect answers to his objections to wow.
Yea, those girls, where would we be without them
Great talk, John Michael! The possibility of alien life is fascinating to me as is how life arose. Thank you for such an enjoyable and interesting episode and thank you for uploading, Event Horizons.
If METI is dangerous, then perhaps other civilizations think so too, which gives less incentive for SETI. If everyone is listening but no one is speaking, contact will likely never happen.
Even so, passive SETI is comparatively easier and less energy intensive than active METI, which makes the cost-benefit ratio more palatable.
I thought the title was "why meth is dangerous" at first glance. Was thinking this was going to be a strange episode 😅
Well... There are only really a few ways it plays out in my mind:
A) There's nothing within a reasonable distance that is able to detect it.
B) There are beings who can receive it near by and they ignore it (no interest in contact).
C) There are beings near enough, but they either aren't technologically advanced enough to see it, aren't looking for it, or are too advanced to be using/looking for our primitive signals.
D) There are beings who can receive it and are peaceful.
E) There are beings that can receive it and are hostile.
If life here on Earth is any indication, there's a much higher chance they are hostile. The real question then is, are they technologically advanced enough to come to us or to return the signal. We certainly can't go to them currently. Overall... If life goes by survival of the fittest, and that doesn't change once a lifeform becomes space fairing, we are up shits creek.
*On that note though*: I don't believe that a life form capable of, not only receiving the signal, but also traveling to us, would not be capable of detecting us through their own means, and therefore, if hostile, would be making moves against us regardless of whether or not we use METI.
I also have the notion that life elsewhere will probably be equally hostile because of nature. Humans can't seem to go beyond their messy nature and work as one. There's always someone looking to step on everyone else. Can't even do it now and we're more set up to work together than ever before. I doubt aliens could escape their nature if we can't.
I think an advanced being would be able to detect & would be aware on how to detect our signals. If they so wanted to go "rookie advanced civilization" hunting, knowing there'd be so few and far between. Or they've been there, done that -- not motivated, but just send drones to observe and not write a reply via our means trying to ensure we get it, etc.
That said, it's jumping the gun that they every star out there would be in position to pick up our super-uber-weak signals of I Love Lucy and the like -- not only not pointing in our direction to listen in + also the signal being too weak, clouded, and interfered by the time it reaches them.
Not to mention some places may have observed us, and every 100 years take a look at us, and to send some drone (which obviously would be done first) -- still only going a fraction of the speed of light, would take Eons our time to get here. And dammit, we want to see them now! So therefore, there must be none out there.
They'd have to be pretty deeply committed to hostility for its own sake to travel here to harm us.
I'm more afraid of alien hygiene freaks than warmongers.
We could build great telescopes instead of wasting money in Ukraine.
Loved your guest John, nice to hear from a lot of smart minds in different fields.
By the way, I'd be willing to chip in a few bucks in to rebuild the telescope in Puerto Rico. Is there a site that takes donations?
I imagine yours would be a difficult pitch to make--that a shiny new toy for space nerds is a better use of money--to people who are in the middle of being brutally slaughtered by Putin.
Love you JMG!
It's my favorite time of the week again! 😁 It's been a while since I've shown my appreciation for event horizon and the guys and girls that make it happen, as I've been watching via Xbox so was unable to comment. Can't wait to dive into this episode. It's time to fire up the bong and fall into... The event horizon 👽
That’s exactly what I just did! I had an edible, though. This is my favorite thing to listen to when I consume. It’s always so interesting to listen to! 😁
@@Leopardvixen369 gotta get baked every Thursday 😁 can just zone into it! Enjoy!
This gentleman is very interested in "The Message" in more than one way.
If I had Elon Musk money, I would donate however much money it would take to do whatever these scientists are interested in doing, regarding SETI and other astronomical endeavors. Studying the universe and looking for other life in the universe should be a huge priority for humanity.
Has anyone tried crowd funding for a year or even a month of dedicated telescope time? He mentioned $100mil/year, which is costly but 100k people at $10 each gets over a month, if that became a bi-monthly subscription that buys 6 months of a year. I have no idea if you could get those numbers at that price but I would be in even as a yearly sub to get 1month/year. I also do not know the avaliability of telescopes, just an idea.
That is interesting
That was interesting. Dan reminds me of my mom. She always told me men are dumb and aggressive.
Einstein, Newton, Galileo, Shakespeare, Bach, Mozart, Plato, Tesla…what dumbasses
We could be totally blind to an advanced civilization.
When will the general population come to recognize that scientists are just like other humans -- self interested in their own pursuits. They want to find discoveries even if there are negative externalities involved for the general public. Generally they involve thinngs like costly projects paid with taxes, people directly involved in risky trial studies, but now we have this. . .
How many scientists do you know?
At 6:52 - 6:53 , Dan Werthimer states the hypothesis about life starting in and around the deep ocean thermal vents, which has been around a while, since the discovery of life around the thermal vents.
I believe the latest scientific thinking is that the thermal vent origin is probably not _necessarily_ well founded anymore.
I think the latest scientific thinking is that what is likely needed is _both moisture/wetting and drying out_ which requires rocky surfaces, creating repeating gradients of moisture for which chemical/biochemical process are more likely to take effect, and for which a totally and constantly wet environment wouldn't be conducive.
The wow signal is *not* case closed yet...
Was wondering why I'd not seen a release from you john,. I'd been unsubscribed, again!
Thanks for the release john1
I was scrolling thru my notifications fast and read the title as "why METH is danger" 😂😅
I hope the aliens don't come and harvest the earthlings for food.😁🥩🍖🥩
Lol these young women. Dude had to simp hard. Yeah because women have done so much for science 🙄
Great show I love how you two talk like you guys are old friends in space 😁
I agree that we should listen and keep quiet until we determine ET's intent.
Might that be the reason for the Fermi paradox?
How would we be able to know for sure what their intentions are?? Is impossible!
@@theresebrandser Everyone out there listens and keep's quiet? Lol! Though would be interesting, there are still parameters to that. As in that nobody has send a probe and knows about us already. There should be at least some civs out there with the tech to do that. Everyday I listen to how the moon or Mars' "natural" satellites, or the alleged "Black Knight Satellite" are out there doing advanced reconnaissance. The other day someone claimed they had a nuclear war on Mars 300k(more plausible) or 300kk years ago. Maybe Aliens are more advanced and track us before we do and put 2+2 together.
As in:These people are not unified. Have 200+ governments and ruling bodies. A handful of nations commands others and in their Planetary Government, usually the issue is to make war to a certain nation or not and how. Those handful countries can VETO any decision even if it is for the better of all the world. Often the "Western" countries think what benefits them is good for all while it isn't. Often the "Eastern" countries think that what is good for them is good for all, also not true. They have Civil wars. They have resources wars. Some countries are over the top rich and throw out resources they haven't even used and others don't have enough resources to make the day and die from starvation. They subsidized and profitted from peoples deaths. Pharmaceutical companies sell medicine that people can't have and could have saved their lives. They are mostly horrible parents usually only able to procreate for procreation shake and drive their offspring to lunacy as much as their spouses. They torture other people in wars with the most horrible tools and ways just in order for them to reveal where more people are and their plans so they can kill and torture them too!
The assumed most powerful country of theirs is called the land of the opportunity. When at the same time one could say it's also the worst of all. Some believe it's the best thing ever. Some think it's a demon in disquise. This is also the country that used the worse WMD twice against other people. An act remembered by everyone to this day. They said they couldn't control their civil race war otherwise and had to threaten their entire species with complete annihilation if they didn't comply. People of their species that are "radicals" want to do the exact same thing to the entire "western World" for ages now, fully knowing that the reprisal would be their entire species annihilation. They have used WMD of various sorts(nuclear, chemical, microbiological etc.) in recent history and still mass produce them, to a degree they could destroy not only more than their world, but about 5 more. Hm...maybe their secret organizations detected us(why would they have organizations to keep secrets from their fellow citizens btw?) and are amassing war materials to invade?
In their TV broadcasts they have these gigantic spaceships battling eachother and other civilizations with other points of view? Also they try to force other civilizations into their other body of government "United Federation of Planets" which we believe is an interstellar organization but only if they're advanced enough(e.g. have a "warp" drive) to be used by them? We believe they're mined for their "dillithium" resources and their citizens forcibly conscripted to "Starfleet". Also they have this organization "Empire" that is evil to the bone and only some people that do nearly nothing all day("Rebels") are against it. And they have those super commandos on each side that can kill everything and everyone no matter how strong they are!
What if they aren't broadcast's but documentaries and if we make contact with them they reveal those and enslave us too? And have you seen those games of theirs? They're either that they are Gods and make everything in their own image or kill eachother! Mr. Minister of extraplanetary affairs, are you sure we want to make contact with such a species? Maybe we should let them eradicate themselves and maybe keep a few individuals, flora and fauna to have present in biomes throughout their planet which(the planet) we could then clean on with our technology and inhabit peacefully, treating it like it should be as the large living organism it is?
@@stevensblanco6194 Possibly determine if they're at war, aggressive, or imperialistic.
Great interview.
I think about the first powered flight of the Wright Bros flight with cloth, wires and wood. Then roughly 120 years later we are flying a helicopter on Mars. Imagine another 120 years from now.
SETI: Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
METI: Messaging Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
YETI: Yearning for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
We all have a due date regardless of what life we encounter. Before I die, no matter how I die, I want to know the answer: are we alone?
In a way, yes, every one of us is alone with themselves in their mind. On the other hand, we all come from the same place, we're all made of stardust.