The Size of the First Order Navy Makes No Sense?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- One of the most puzzling things about the First order's rise was the appearance of their massive naval fleet. The Imperial Remnant had been sanctioned, politically and economically isolated, but somehow in just three decades the First Order had one of the most powerful navies in galactic history. Today we take a look at how it actually went down.
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Wookies who were already adults during the Clone Wars must have howled in disbelief at the naivety of the New Republic.
The entire species would all have PTSD.
Yes
POV The entire Wookies ah S**t here we go again
This is assuming that Wookies think the same as Humans, let alone have the same emotional range.
@@CPLRedmond I think they are even more emotional than humans just by looking Chewbacca
As would basically everyone. The human race lives up to 100 years in average in Star Wars and most species have either similar lifespans if not longer not to mention they basically did only a few years after Endor.
First Order Navy: *exists*
Neo Zeon: *heavy breathing noises*
Earth Alliance (the gundam ones) after their fleet and moon base wrecked in first war and earth city mostly devastated by Break the world incident: hold my BLUE AND PURE WORLD!! Taste my REQUIEM CANNON!!!
I almost hate how accurate this comparison is. XD
@@COMPLAINS_NOT_CHANGE_ANYTHINGAnd then they got Requiem stolen from them and even used against them which got their fleet destroyed, again.
Neo Zeon has a big excuse and a realistic one for why they seem to keep getting suits and resources.
Anaheim Electronics.
@@thatdoppioguy1825 That was Char's Neo Zeon that got Anaheim Electronics backing in "Char's Counterattack" movie.
I'm referring to the Neo Zeon under Haman Karn when they rebuilt their strength and numbers after exiling themselves to the Asteroid Belt and Mars with the Axis space station in "Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam" and "Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ".
0:01 Alan back at Lothal with a new fancy apartment room.
Him at Lothal is him slumming it.
As an accounting major, I quickly realized how weird it was that the first order suddenly had an army, a massive fleet, and a system killer cannon without anyone realizing it. Even when the Empire built the Death Star, people (in canon) realized that personnel, credits, and resources were being poured somewhere. That was in a galaxy where the Empire had control of literally everything.
Also, even if the First Order just happened to get a ton of imperial resources. They are building a whole new fleet (I mean putting aside a lot of plot-convenient technology they happened to get a hold of) out of nothing, yes, nothing! The Executor and the Death Stars I and II nearly bankrupted the Empire already. Suppose you consider the amount of credits that went into star destroyers and calculate how the Clon Wars Separatists struggled to build certain ships despite having the Trade Federation, Banking Clan, Commerce Guild, Techno Union, and many other big money franchises. In that case, it is physically impossible for the First Order to get the credits to pay for a completely new navy, much less for 10,000 planet killer ships.
Long story short, the New Republic was dealing with an economically destroyed empire. If you think how long it can take for real-life Earth to recover when one first-world country has a financial crash, imagine an entire galaxy where the vast majority of the population was living off minimum wage and prayers.
Also, historically, many groups you mentioned, such as the Mongols, Qing, and Romans, had specific strategies for building their empires.
Ghengis Khan and Kublai Khan united their empires with unique military composition, but primarily by relocating local communities to completely different areas to allow a fusion of cultures. They highly respected philosophers, artists, and scholars and gave them privileges to spread knowledge wherever they could. They were brutal against people who stood against them, but they also didn't stomp out existing cultures without reason.
The Qing were very similar in their approach, adopting many existing traditions from the previous Ming Dynasty that helped them integrate with the general population.
The Romans were generally lenient about the practice of religion in their early expansion and brought their roads and culture wherever they expanded. Their military was powerful but far from perfect, which caused them to hire local mercenaries, which boosted the acceptance of the locals, who saw their own people serving in their new overlord military.
Since the New Republic controlled the Core, the First Order dealt with Outer and Mid Rim populations who hated the Empire after decades of oppression. Maybe the First Order COULD have built a new fleet and become dangerous, but never in secret to the point that no one knew or cared. Once again, resources don't come from nowhere. The uncharted regions can't magically produce everything they need.
Shout out to the Templin Institute's reinterpretation that actually made some of this nonsense work and addressed a lot of this.
@@spiritshadow7523 as an armchair war gamer, there were alot suspicious bits that needed explaining, like how and where the first order were getting their basic supplies including food, uniforms, and personal gear. It's just not something that can be done with a wave of a magic wand, there would be a trail and clear evidence that they exist which leads to two scenarios which are equally dubious in my opinion.
The first is there were so many insiders that not only blocked any method investigate said paper trails and infact spearheading the first order to take control of the new republic. This would make starkiller base unnecessary at best and and completely foolish to deploy because they are literally killing all conspirators in the capital before they can complete their great master plan, and those not from the destroyed planets, especially after the resistance practically same day destroyed the weapon, would immediately flip because they know the score now, if the first order wins they will be immediately disposed of despite all the traitorous work done. Their machinations would immediately be turned against them because only total idiots would work for them now and we have real life examples of how that turns out.
The other is that the new republic is already on the verge of becoming a failed state due to poor management and runaway corruption, the first order is merely the tip of the iceberg of problems they are going through. All the good politicians and leaders have either retired, forced out of politics, or died at this point and really, the new republic is either on the verge of disintegration or atleast doing a speedeun on the thousand year fall of the republic, anyone up for clone wars 2: Judgement day? If the new republic is this bad off the resistance would be in a multi faceted war between the first order, multiple factions and pirates, and civil war. While a very interesting story it just coalesce in the movies or stories.
Why I always thought an insurgency made more sense. The First Order could easily win politically and its been shown the Empire prisoners were still loyal despite programming. The New Republic didn't even have a strong military despite inheriting the Empire's turf. They'd also have to handle multiple civil wars as factions vie for power in those old territories. Consider that the Speratists would still be around aren't for Empire, New Order or another Republic. How can the New Republic handle all that. Think whole systems are on the verge of mass starvation, anarchy or being plundered. How can the New Republic handle literally thousands of issues occurring after the Battle of Jaku? Honestly the turmoil around a struggling New Republic trying to establish its place in the galaxy is far more interesting and leads to better stories.
The scene where all the star destroyer were just chilling under ice fully crewed was just beyond rediculous to me.
Not the First Order. That was the "Final Order" fleet that Palpatine and the "Sith Eternal" had developed and squirreled away
gonna be honest, I didn't realize that was ice/ground until people were talking about how ridiculous it was online. I thought Exagaul was an ocean planet (Kinda like Kamino, but with worse music), and the Star Destroyers were rising up out of the sea. I blame this confusion on JJ Abrams' lack of proficiency in the art of the establishing shot
What really got me, was, as I understand it, the Death Star man cannon required a huge amount of those crystals Force-Users need to make their lightsabers. And the crystals are supposed to be rare. The Empire was raiding old Jedi Temples for enough crystals to build the Death Star's cannon. Then along comes the last movie and there are hundreds of star destroyers with a cannon is the same as the Death Star's cannon. Where did they get so much crystal. And considering that only 30/40 years passed from the destruction of the first Death Star until that last movie, much of which time the Empire was shattered, seems pretty strange the Empire was able to miniturize the tech and power systems needed for the cannon.
@@JoeyDCote I mean he literally said in the video that exegol had a huge amount of kyber crystals. Also they probably started the whole death star destroyer project long after the Death Star started construction.
the sequels could have been a lot more interesting if the 1st order was the underdog, using the same tactics against the new republic that the rebels used on them, but more ruthlessly.
Yeah and the New Republic would’ve had to deal with them in ways that didn’t stomp on people’s liberties as that would create a cycle of oppression and rebellion.
The whole sequel trilogy was really wrecked by terrible worldbuilding choices that they could never really dig out of. The whole insistence on a rehash of A New Hope really depended on too many people and factions being too stupid for too long. The resulting mess was just too damn much mess to cover in three movies.
Kind of like that Picard show, they started off with retroactively having 'blown up too much' and just kind of disoriented the audience too much from how people mmight have expected things to go, even the main characters in odd places and relationships and circumstances that don't in many cases make tons of sense either....Plus whole shifts in tone from what you'd expect written in as background....
In Force Awakens' case they'd have done much better keeping it kind of simple, instead of going for a full reset. Maybe show don't tell about the New Republic being pretty immobilized by factionalism instead of just blindingly-dumb about sudden disarmament, maybe our heroes in more or less the situations you'd expect from the novels, say, instead of the 'why would you call it a Resistance before the First Order shows up,' Leia had arranged some worlds and outfits like the Rangers and other branches into a coalition still ready to fight off the Imperial remnants and whatever other trouble comes from the Imperial power vacuum, .....something at least that didn't require all factions to be pretty stupid to contrive that rehash.
In both cases it's like to the audience, 'OK, everything went way too dark way too fast somewhere back there where we didn't see it, and really it just made my mind disoriented and inclined to reject a lot of the premises presented. You end up maybe too focused on 'Wait, where the hel are we, what happened' than the story or getting very interested in who the new characters are, Or questions like, 'OK, you somehow demobilized and scrapped an entire glalactic navy how fast? ' (Or in Picard's case, 'Our entire evacuation fleet and much of the rest of the fleet was destroyed at Mars,' ...And I'm like, 'What the Hel were they waiting around there for, a big entrance? You'd want all of them to be doing as much evacuating as they can as soon as they can all along!" )
All to kind of 'set a mood'. Star Wars execs wanted a New Hope remake and there just wasn't enough time to do everything they crammed in without a plan. Or thinking through how they got there without implausible handwaves.
I'm now genuinely upset that the sequels didn't go with your scenario of the insurgent 1st order/underdogs
And rei being Palpatines granddaughter could turn to the light side and actually have a story arch
But they had to waste our time with a storm troopers who immediately gets sidelined by Mary Sue. I liked fin, but they did him dirty, especially in the sequels.
It would’ve made more sense if the First Order’s flagship/headquarter had a Death Star tech onboard instead of chasing the Resistance Fleet until they ran out of fuel
But like the Death Star, they both keep their massive fleets of Tie Fighters docked, with only one elite squadron launched.
The emperor could have had a fully automated shipyard run by reprogrammed B1 battle droids okay all those fucking droids no they could have scooped them all up and reprogram them to be workers keep them all to the fucking core and you know had them start building giant shipyards and I could have made new droids you know for that and it could have been his automated as possible they could have put those tactical droids reprogram them to you know design shipyards and ships and the automation is possible okay they could use droids and computers and you know just to automate almost as much as possible
@@thehillbillygamer2183 In the Bad Batch most of the battle droids were being scrapped
@@casbot71 this was needed for structural integrity. Those fighters are actually load bearing
Yup. Basically what the Eclipse class is.
The First Order Navy didn't matter anyway when the people of the entire galaxy show up in their spaceships at Lando Calrissian's beck and call and easily defeat them.
*final order
I especially loved the animal charge in space scene,who wrote this crap,a five year old? 😬
I wonder if Lando had "The Deal"?
This is why Fanfiction authors need to stick to fanfiction. I do appreciate the smut, though.
@@ghr501able Settle down, Bo! 🫵🏻
How to fix this HUGE problem. 1. First order finds another Star Forge in unknown region, 2. most of the ships are crewed by old B-1 or just old droids or even automating most of the huge ships.
I would've been happy had Starkiller Base been a hollowed-out planet the First Order was hiding (and building) their fleet in instead of it just being Death Star 3.0. At least that would explain how they were able to mass such a fleet despite holding little to no territory at the sequel trilogy's outset
But I do like the droids idea of yours as it would show a desperate need for manpower on the First Order's part (as well as how they could have such a large fleet)
@@Vistico93starkiller base is unfortunately the planet ilum so its not hollow
The sequels made no sense.
This👆
My first thought and you beat me to it.
I concur,the 🐭 sequels were examples of rushed uneven lazy unimaginative storytelling 🤔
It’s not difficult to understand 😂
Such a boring comment
None of it made sense.
The first order wasn't a remnant or a coalition if Imperials. They apparently just magically had the capabilities to rival the empire itself with regards to building and running a military.
The first moments of "A new, new Hope" crawl told us that JJ Abrams gave absolutely no fucks about the lore and verisimilitude of the star wars universe.
Cheers!
and think about this too, they were kidnapping many children, how th did the republic ignore that? - Tho that cause the movies and specially the tv shows made sure that new republic leia fought her whole life for is beyond bad, like somehow worse -
Thats incorrect, if you watch the video you will be provided with the real explanation of what they are
@@Emanon... Kathleen Kennedy was in charge and had other more pressing objectives like having a Mary sue character.
In defense of JJ, he was being ignored along with George Lucas and by the time they actually let him cook he was stuck on damage control.
I remember reading the initially released details on the Supremacy and thinking: "So basically the First Order have spent the past 20-30 years playing Homeworld"
The biggest problem I have with the first order is that we just don’t see much of their society. Like sure you see their military and how they go about their lives but you don’t really get to see their civilians their shipyards because apparently the first order does govern worlds in the unknown regions. I just feel there should be so much more to this faction. Like extra material showing how they rose and took over kingdoms and how they forcefully integrated them into their domain. We saw a bit of it in the Phasma comics but not much else. And that’s a shame because I really REALLY *REALLY* like the order, they’re the only thing I care about in the new era and read the most about. But Disney kinda pulled a GW and gave us a cool faction and then not expand upon them.
What’s that? An imperial remnant faction that improved upon their imperial predecessors that use star destroyers and walkers designs to counter rebel tactics? A faction that also suffers from the culture of its predecessor and doubles down on them? **A FACTION THAT HAS A 6ft 7 ROILED UP SILVER MOMMY STORMTROOPER IN THEIR HIGH COMMAND WHO I WANT TO CRADLE ME?!**
It’s all there you can expand upon it! Is parnassos a completely primitive wasteland? Or does the order recruit it’s best veteran from the world and tried to bring some form of stability to it?
What about their ship yards? How did they come about? How many worlds had to be devastated to bring them to fruition? How were they able to secretly get Kuat’s help? Ship millions of tons of material to their corner of the galaxy? What about stuff on stormtroopers that were recruited instead of kidnapped? Agent Tierny wasn’t born under the order and I’m certain there’s a lot more like her.
I just wish there was more and there can be, no doubt.
This was just me mindlessly rambling on the FO and glazing Phasmommy… because she’s the best… no you’re down bad…
You need to go take a cold shower and read the Bible and pray the Rosary, Bo.
@@MeanBeanComedy yes, post haste
I too love the concept of the First Order, that it's a more powerful, "remastered" version of the Empire, but they just fumbled so hard with it. The last movie killed any sense in it, and they never really explained how it even came to be the size that is in TFA. Maybe Filoni will eventually do something with the Mandoverse, or a similar project.
I will die saying that the sequels have redeemable qualities in them, they just need to write really good stories that sort of atone for the movies
I also want to learn more about FO, they are one of my favorite factions in all of Star Wars
Brother, you make me look like I'm up good with this amount of glazing.
The Galactic Empire falls and then The First Order just starts up as large as and powerful as The Galactic Empire with the entire galaxy NOT having a dang defense force to defend itself for some reason therefore making the entire fall of The Galactic Empire... completely... meaningless...
Neeeeuuuggghhh...
First order : i stole the fleet of new republic , that's why I have more ships than them 😂🎉
Lothal looks nice this time of year
Some of those are imperial ships that went missing during and after the war ended but still. It doesn’t make sense unless they intergrated other species into their industry
*Laughs in Starkiller Base.....
**Hysterical chortling* in Final Order Exagol Fleet.
Well that one has at least been explained by the construction beginning before the Empire fell.
@@Mr-Rinn what they don't explain, though, is why the Final Order didn't finish a single Star Destroyer until the whole fleet was ready. If they'd had a few dozen years before, it would have been a galactic calamity (imagine a Crimson Fleet lightning strike havoc campaign, but with superlasers). But no, they had to construct 30,000 at the same time.
@@sethb3090 I think they wanted to wait until it was an unstoppable size, a smaller portion defeated early by the New Republic would raise alarm bells.
@@Mr-Rinn the final order made no goddamn sense. At least starkiller base was just another death star
Disney sequels suck , that's it 😂🎉
If the first order were to be based solely on ships that were salvaged and thoroughly refurbished/rebuilt from some sith era stellar forge, it would have probably made more sense and would have made for some actually interesting stories. But we got plot holes the movie.
Majority of the shit after Return of the Jedi makes absolutely no sense when you actually think about it, especially the first orders rise. Think what really condemned the Sequel Trilogy to be shit was JJ just saying fuck world building and blowing up the New Republic when it had like 5 seconds of screen time. That pretty much set the tone for that eras world building which was a complete lack of care. Even the newer stuff with the mandoverse is completely fucking up the world building given its introduction of absolutely plot breaking technology and just nonsensical ways factions like The New Republic operated. It all just screams not only rushed but of complete apathy (worse than death)
A democratic power that underestimated a fallen empire and neglected its military strength while its enemies build theirs back up... How unrealisctic. This would never happen in the real world.
hmmm,l see where you’re going(Third Reich)there,but a military buildup of this planetary scale seems far fetched 🤔
@@arthurbriand2175 pretty sure it did happen recently with the whole taliban takeover of Afghanistan
@@chrisellis2758 This happened several times in recent history and even current times. It was sarcasm
@@chrisellis2758 Taliban was never a fallen empire. They ruled Afghanistan, then hid in the mountains for 20 years, then came back.
At this scale it is, completely stupid.
And honestly a great mirror to what has happened to Europe in the real world. Weak and powerless out of 'fear' of having a repeat lol.
"Creatively bankrupt" is a phrase I'd apply to the sequel trilogy as a whole.
If they had the courage to make jarjar the Sith, it could have been mindblowing
Some things in the sequel is ok not good but ok
They were trying to make Star Wars without dipping their hand into the Lucas cookie jar. They HATE relying on stuff that was made under him, doesn't matter if he was overseeing it or not. There's been so many times it would make sense for them to use something from the OG SW but Disney said F that and tired making something entirely new for that bit, almost always crashed and burned. It's all about ego, they wanna be able to make SW profitable without relying on stuff he made/was made under him because that's pretty much them admitting he knew better and that Disney didn't having to rely on OG SW to be successful.
Personally that's what I think they have made so many different aliens that never existed in SW. A lot of their designs either don't fit at all with the SW's look or are just plain bad. I mean in the Mando they had an alien species that was quite literally a scaled up ant. OG SW has countless aliens, some of which haven't even had a chance to been shown on screen yet, so they really had no need to go that hard into making totally new designs. That example aside, if they'd let go of their dang ego, and the political stuff, they'd be able to make SW profitable again. I believe it's KK's fault, not wanting to admit GL was better at this than she was.
@zelithfang2365 with all the aliens I agree with you that's bs
Ar least its interesting to watch how creatively bankrupt studio notes from the financiers manifest as creatively bankrupt leadership among the First Order and derilict leadership by the New Republic.
The Sequels were so POS 🗑 🚮 that the creators really thought that making everything "bigger is better" 🤡. The creativity within the Sequels is beyond abysmal.
7 was good, but it was the only one of the sequels that was.
Even though Starkiller Base is ridiculous, got to give it some props of being the largest embodiment of the Tarkin Doctrine taken to the extreme and that it served its purpose to cause immediate fear despite it's destruction.
The First Order and Final Order make no sense as a rule. The Unknown Regions are nowhere near as populous and resource rich to build the forces both show.
We don’t know everything in the unknown region. There could be enough to supply the first order
@cactus472 yea, but not the Final Order
@@mhmm4840well maybe but we can’t prove it either way
I bet there were actually many either unpopulated or very lightly populated planets that they could completely strip mine for resources, so only manpower is an issue and it is likely they found a small civilization and enslaved it to build everything.
@@cactus472 Ah yes thousands nd millions of years of old republic never thought of this and just sat in core systems , even if there were unlimited stores of resources , first order or final order would produce some random asse reason , Disney sequels focked up
There is a seeming paradox though of the First Order's philosophy and capability, mostly coming from the sheer size of the resistance fleet at Exogol in Episode 9.
If the philosophy of the First Order is basically "the Empire but saying the quiet part out loud" and they had both the logistical and navy capacity to destroy the heart of the New Republic and take over the core majority of the entire galexy in less then a day (no i'm not exagerating).
Then why would they allow even a hint of resistance to ever bubble up. If they're taking their only shot to win, they should be glassing planets by the hundreds. Any major population centers, resource rich worlds, industrial capable, galatic hubs of trade and communication should have been turned into wastelands.
By episode 9, logically the galexy should be a hellscape bleeding the force with incredibly deep and prolifice wounds to also keep potential jedi from connecting to the force.
Therefore, there should not be millions of combat ready fighters that can coordinate against the Final Order.
So either the First Order is still incompetent, their fleet size couldn't have been that large, or, the speed of conquest wasn't near instantaneous: all of these cannot be true at the same time.
Simple , New republic w and rebel forces were sleeping untill Lando Called them 😂🎉 ,like how tf a escaped imperial force can turn into a Major Galactic conquest force without the said production facilities , resources , technology and research , like out of thin air , even the rebellion fought by guerrilla warfare and how am I supposed to believe that a defeated and barely surviving group of imperials went to the most uninhabited and non livable part of star wars galaxy and somehow turned into a Galaxy conquering force , all they did was destroy few planets and suddenly the galaxy , the new republic is under thier control , even Jar Jar Binks can write a better story
There is an intensely disruptive paradox at the heart of this:
If the fleet had an actual economy behind it we should have seen propaganda and the Republic should have seen a threat;
If they had no economy we should have seen them brute forcing planets into submission through force and the Republic should have seen their threat.
If the first order was just leveling entire civilizations with no survivors they should have run out of personnel and had no chance when it came to actually conquering anything.
All 3 are characterized as strategy they used but are in fact competing strategies that would provide any minion the whiplash neccesary to risk insurrection.
The way you casually and quickly name dropped Andrew Wiggin... love it
their navy's size may make no sense, but their Resurgence class Star Destroyers sure are cool.
"It is science. I do not have to explain anything. - 40k Techpriest
how did some remnants of the empire got resources for that
Writers: “Uhhh cloning and uhhhh secrets only the Sith knew so shut up and eat your poo”
Dismantle a rogue planet, and you got all the resources you need.
@@brianschonfeld1733 World Devastators!!!
@@brianschonfeld1733 But in order to do that you’ll need not just the man power, but equipment and refineries to process those raw materials which I highly doubt the first order had access to at the start
Frankly the first order was just overall kinda hard to beleive...atleast with the scale and scope of their tech and recources...
Like I could beleive they maybe had some special advanced stuff that builds off the old...but the idea of a bunch of remnants using old surplus gear, unified under a ideal and strong leader legitimately would have been a better threat.
Like imagine a sequel trilogy where we had a imperial faction that was similar to the nomadic steppe mongols or huns, people not believing they are coming until they are at the gate, led by a leader that would actually be great at his job of conquest.
Like honestly the sequel trilogy has the biggest missed opportunities
I see,like the Vikings Mongols or Huns 🤔
@skepticalsmurf not sure if your joking, but just the idea of a roving massive imperial remnant on the edge of the outer rimm that is underestimated and while not has a overall tech advantage...makes up with numbers, ideological fantcisim, and generally adapted tactics and gear alongside maybe some dark side stuff would be neat.
Tbh the sequel trilogy in general should have been more similar to the EU with a outside threat like the yuzang vong causing the darkside and lights idea to temporarily work together to survive...only to once it is done return to the old sith vs. Jedi conflicts.
The logical result of the Battle of Endor would be a kind of "Game of Thrones" in space. Shifting aliances and backstabbing between imperial factions and a New Alliance that survives mostly because everyone is to busy with infighting. Lots of cloak and dagger, tons of POV characters.
Accidentally set an ancient superweapon in motion if you feel the need...
Long live the Republic!!!!
Awhile back I actually came up with my own lore reason for ideas I had for my own TFA (not a good writer just ideas guy). It was that the weapons and ships we see the First Order build that are more advanced than the Empire were Imperial designs meant to be gradually implemented over time but then the Battle of Endor killed Palpatine and the Empire collapsed. The First Order in the unknown regions built on these designs but this was only able to equip a fraction of what the Imperial Navy had in numbers. Ideally imo the First Order would have just been the Imperial Remnant which was allowed to exist in the Outer Rim but a charismatic Snoke found his way on top and the New Republic out of fear of another conflict allowed the remnant to build up its strength and technology to what we see First Order designs have. Just my idea I haven’t talked sequels in quite some time.
Alan, just condem the sequels for once
Admit it, Disney Sequels just sucks.
I always chalked the reason up to being that sci fi and fantasy fails at scale something I as a prolific writer try to avoid
best site of for unbiased non-politicized SW content 🤓
The world building in the Sequels was just so bad. Making Leia the new leader of the New Republic and taking command of the surviving Republic Navy and Starfighter Corps would have improved it a bit, rather than one massive blow against one star system making the New Republic just end in a bang and a whimper.
I did NOT expect this level of quality when I clicked on a video about the first order and the size of its Navy. Instant subscribe
Would be interesting to see how any of the Warlords from legends Star Wars would have dealt with the First Order. Even the weakest seems more competant than the First Order...
Wasn't the First Order supposed to be a pure stratocracy? Like, you know, an entirely military society with no civilian population?
Alright my fellow sequel nerds and Disney shills time to add Generation tech to the list of youtubers you hate for speaking truth, these sizes make no sense. No really don't harass GT over fictional story telling, he's cool people.
Lmao wth you talking about, GT is awesome, he covers all of Star Wars with rational thinking and even in this video he explains stuff about the First Order instead of being hateful. This guy remained a positive light during the whole Acolyte Drama and got called a Shill for talking about it normally
I think the first Order navy still makes no sense. All empires you cited predates the industrial revolution. After the industrial revolution, no matter how motivated is your population, how militaristic is your society, you cannot conquer an empire without a strong economy.
And North Korea is a bad example. Its economy was propped up by China and Russia (alternatively, or at the same time). A better point of comparison for the first order would be Russia itself : a highly Militaristic, former powerful empire with a lot of outdated material, but unable to conquer its small democratic neighbor.
The first order makes no sense and it's navy doesn't either: how can it be possible to support such a navy without a strong economy. Building ships is not sufficient, you have to supply them, manned their crews, maintain them. Without a strong civilian (and even with it) it is impossible.
Also, the disparition of corruption within the first order is highly unlikely. The more militaristic a society is, the more corrupt it tends to be.
Basically, the first order should be an impotent, corrupt and badly supplied navy overpaying for new republican components (because they have no manufacturer of their own). They should nonetheless overestimate their capacity (as fascist countries tends to do), and destroy their own forces in inefficient and poorly planned attacks.
Generation Tech making great parallels to the real world as always
One thing I really appreciate about your videos is the speckling of our history to show a plausible way something could happen in Star Wars. If all else I'll get a bit of knowledge from that.
The weaving in of real history and facts is a nice touch.
Why his Acolyte stuff revealed some things normally you wouldnt notice they were going for past general OBVIOUS issues. He convinced me WACO inspired the story
Resource allocation is a powerful tool! It all comes down to giving up lesser priorities so you can achieve your core objectives. Some people are blessed with the talent and resources to have it all, but most of us have to think deeply about what we really want. If you refuse to choose, life will choose for you.
You are telling me that a ship from a franchise where people can lift things with their minds, fly, and there is sound in space, is not realistic? I am impressed
"that's what ender wiggin would do" I haven't thought about enders game or enders shadow in Ages. Such a good book, as soon as I finish this video I'm gonna go read those again 😂
The people in charge of the sequels had the mindset of 8-year olds "if it's bigger it's better and a Jedi with no training at all but who just knows everything is better than Luke who had some training".
To me in the force awakens it felt like the First Order was set up with a quality over quantity approach to it's military with the Starkiller base allowing them to hold the galaxy hostage, secure their reign.
Then we had the Last Jedi that went with the usual bigger badder enemy with a massive fleet conquering everything is sight despite the loss of the base, then the same one up man ship, with the Rise of Skywalker pulling a fleet of star destroyers with death star tech and the Emperor out of thin air and the massive resistance fleet that waited all this time to resist the First order.
Honestly, if they were to say something like the Starforge was recreated or something I could understand the First Order having a HUGE navy and plenty of equipment, maybe aggressive cloning from many veterans to have a large variety of templates and boom huge military.
Instead Disney is like, "look they bad cause they kidnap people and are just Empire 2.0 but worse"
Starkiller base i can accept since it was later revealed to be Ilum turned into a base, but the massive fleet in Last Jedi i cant and then the Last Order fleet i absolutely cant accept,
Alan finally got a penthouse on lothal.
It wouldve been a cool plot if the 1st Order built their own Malevolence battleships, maybe 12. And then disguise the EMP attacks as Solar flares so they can then "aid" the victims
This explains the logic of the First Order perfectly, I can understand the criticism about the sequel trilogy being a mess, that I can agree, but I like it nonetheless. Whereas most people call the First Order "Empire Lite", there are qualities about the First Order that differ it from the regime they originated from.
The Unknown Regions were scouted and mapped out during the early days of the Galactic Empire, due to Paplatine finding the source of the dark side, that being Exegol, but he saw too it that certain sectors were prepared for Imperial colonization by constructing shipyards, factories and research facilities. By the time the Imperial Remanent retreated from the Battle of Jakku, everything was mostly ready for them to rebuild, reorganize and implement their master plan to retake the galaxy by a military offensive. They had less the number of ships the Empire employed in their day, but the technological advancements gave the First Order equal effinecy.
The First Order valued quality instead of quantity. The Resurgent class Star Destroyer is the successor of the Imperial class while burrowing aspects of the Venator class, these ships were designed to correct the flaws of it's predecessors, even the Executor class Star Dreadnought, which was felled by the kamikaze attack of a single A Wing.The TIE line was also improved, finally given shields and hyper drives that their Imperial predecessors lacked, even following the technological success of the TIE Defender.
The Supremacy was more of a mobile capital than a capital ship designed for battle, but even then, it was capable of manufacturing Star Destroyers and Walkers for the First Order's military effort. It was only felled by the experimental shield of the MC85, Raddus. Sheer luck.
As for Starkiller Base and the Sith Fleet, both were just lucky aspects that came into the conflict at the right time. Starkiller Base being Ilum but hollowed out after the Empire ransacked the planet's kyber crystal resources and the Sith Fleet having been prepared to replace the old Imperial Navy had the Empire not fallen. Palpatine intended to replace the old Imperial Navy with Sovereign class Star Dreadnoughts later on his reign in Legends.
As to how the First Order fell, it wasn't because of their assets, it was because of their leadership. For example, the Battle of D'Qar laid bare the incompetence of the military's directive. The Mandator was placed in the front line of the fleet, whereas the Star Destroyers could've taken the lead and protected it's flanks, the Mandator was designed as a heavy artillery ship. Second, Hux could've had the Mandator to target the Raddus, instead, he wanted to show the regime's power by destroying the evacuated base. A clear example of tactical incompetence.
While Starkiller Base and the Supremacy were lost in the first days of the conflict, the First Order were successful in taking military control of most of the galaxy. As I said, it wasn't their technological assets that doomed them, their leadership was what caused their downfall.
Very well done Generation Tech, I enjoyed watching the video.
The 10,080 Xystons don't resemble Imperial-Is, they are Imperial-Is. These are the 10,080 ISDs that were phased out of the Imperial Navy as the Imperial-IIs were introduced, not new ships. This explains why there are so many of them: they already existed as part of the Imperial fleet, and were manufactured for them. This also explains why nobody noticed their disappearance from the Imperial military: as far as the Imperial bureaucracy (and any spies) is concerned, these ships were sent to disposal facilities. It also makes way more sense for Palpatine to use old refitted vessels as a rainy day plan, as opposed to brand new purpose-built vessels. The cannons can be explained as relatively new tech (think an upgunned version of what the Onager has) that does not destroy planets, but rather cracks planetary shields to destroy shielded Rebel vessels.
They're essentially unstable glass cannons that explode like the Enterprise-D whenever someone grazes the warp core.
The Xyston ISD-I core wasn't designed to handle such a massive power drain from the superlaser, the majority of the ship's power was dedicated to the engines just to keep it in the air. Once in space, they'd be much more of a threat with their shields up.
Since the Xyston ISD-I was not meant to utilize a superlaser, it required the cannons to be wired directly to the core. Therefore, destroying the superlaser destroys the core, and the ship with it.
Quick correction. There were 1,080 Xyston SDs made, not 10,080. The prospect is terrifying enough without making 10x more of them.
It will always be a mystery on why the New Republic went from being the dominant force in the galaxy to basically a non-entity during the sequels.
With such advanced droid tech, one wonders why it takes so many crew members to make these huge ships function.
It doesn’t make sense to put troops into your battleships. The marines on a battleship are there for keeping the sailors in line and occasionally other stuff.
Putting your army onto your biggest target is cocky.
The way this could work is if the First Order was actually much smaller, cannabalizing the massive Imperial fleet to build a leaner but much more efficient and skilled fleet and army. But while the crunch and lore suggest that you don't ever see them being more elite than ye old Empire, or the required changes of doctrine.
Starkiller Base could maybe have kinda worked if it hadn't been built by the First Order OR the Empire, but instead was an unbelievably ancient relic of uncertain origins (like centerpoint station in old legends) that had been discovered in the later days of the Empire.
Same with Supremacy, it was an Imperial super weapon that was mostly finished by the time of ROTJ, and was taken into the unknown regions and completed by what would become the first order.
Roughly *300* Xystons a year to get to 10080 total, not 30
I literally had this thought hours ago before you posted.
I sooo wish that they made the first order a small cult of of hardline radicals, not empire 2.
Personally, much of the sequel trilogy could be fixed with like 1 or 2 lines. First Order resources? World Deviaters. An even smaller faction in the Sith Eternal? Clone wars' droids.
Instead, we got a Godzilla 98
Just now realized thrawn and ender are the same character.
😂🎉 wtf , nope , ender wiggins and mithrawnuruodo are 2 different charecters , thier tactics and strategies too are not similar at all
@@sumukhvmrsat6347 bullied savant from outcast family uses understanding of the enemy and non standard tactics to become the hero of his civilization.
Best Star Wars Channel
The first order makes no space in general.
Everything about the First Order was ridiculous. But the Final Order in ROS just flat out sucked ass. Where does a half alive Sith Lord get the resources to create an armada of over 1000 Star Destroyers complete with full crews that can stay hidden for years and keep said crews fed and productive?
Imperial originality went out the door when Lucas introduced yet another Death Star in ROTJ. Since then we've gotten a ridiculous slew of bigger bang platforms that had to one up the previous movie. Just awful.
Oh, and the Holdo maneuver........LOL.
One thing wasn't considered in the North- and South Korea example... South Korea also has allies backing them up in case of a conflict, mostly the US but other NATO countries as well. The CCP also mentioned that they would step in in case North Korea tries to do something stupid
JJ Abrams is a "size queen", made Star Trek ships at SW scale, and in the sequels, upscaled the bad guy ships and pkanet killer as apparently established designs were not big enough.
Problem is, where'd they get the industrial capacity and infrastructure to build and maintain ships let alone make the monstrous ships? The imperial remnants weren't industrialists or infrastructure specialists that could easily reconstitute the capacities left behind.
I don’t know why it never clicked before but the concept of the first order rebuilding in the unknown regions and gradually come back to take over the galaxy, and “reestablish order” sounds an awful lot like it was aspired by Asimov’s Foundation (ofc super dumbed down but the very very high level concept)
True realistically first order would be like barely scrapping by with hit and run tactics, with most of the ships being held by duct tape, hopes and dreams of the engineers, not really capable of staying in one place for a long time (like quarian migrant fleet from mass effect)
Important to realize that Palpatine/Sidious was basically controlling both the First and Final Order and probably quite a few people in the New Republic were under his sway. He had probably been developing both First & Final from the early days of his Empire, and the Sith Loyalists on Exegol might well have started before he was even born. It kinda makes for a logical explanation of why the Jedi in the Galactic Republic didn't know what the Rule of Two Sith were doing, they were setting up stuff in the Unknown Regions (Knights of Ren had to start somehow). Yet another potential plan if the Separtists movement didn't come to exist...
4:32 Wait right here roman kingdom? It was roman republic that jumpstarted Rome form small tribe to greatest power in western part of civilized world.
Lol I saw this just as I paused about to make the same comment
One thing I hate about the sequels is they all took place back to back while originals were years in between even the prequels years in between but sequels there’s no room for in between stories
First Order ships and vehicles: Ridiculously oversized. First Order personnel: Smaller scale with emphasis on quality over quantity due to limited resources.
Did they just employ massive amounts of automation on their ships or what?
The one question I’ve always had is how did they become so powerful? It doesn’t make any sense that what is basically a terrorist organization would grow the size of an entire empire, and have all the same resources, all while controlling practically nothing.
Good content 🧘♂ Very nice view from your hotel room 🔭
They had: Starkiller Base, this ship, multiple SD on Exegol. Paplatine drained a few star systems of resources all right....
I don’t even think you would need to dismantle an earth size planet for that.
English person here, you really shouldn't give credit to us for teaching new generations about our previous atrocities, throughout primary and secondary school, not once was I taught about any of the bad things our country has done, just Henry the 8th (only about his wives), WW2, and the Battle of Hastings, and I took History as a field of study. It still makes me mad to this day
Sounds like you didn't get much history, period. Don't forget that English history also has a lot of very good things in it. For one easy example, the British Empire made slavery unfashionable, in a world where for thousands of years it was the morally acceptable norm.
Another negative of bringing the Emperor back is that he becomes more of an idiot. The New Order must have mixed up the retreat orders as those who made it to the Unknown regions learned nothing from losing the war and just went "Er build it the same as last time but bigger" and again seemed to forget that those pesky fighters were a pain last time. Though they did build better fighters their tactics didn't seem to change. And the Sith eternal just turned up the stupid to 11.
Not a lot in the newer movies makes much sense.
“Creatively bankrupt” are you talking about the first order or Disney? Maybe both?
To me, First Order would work better (read: work period), if it would be build with l e s s. Strike cruisers instead of pocket Super Star Destroyers, mixed strike team of Storm Commandos and assassin droids instead of legions of Stormtroopers, et cetera. Something size of Eclipse shoud be their largest asset, period, and it should've been a ship from Empire's times. Defeated militaries learn from their enemies, so IR/FO should've taken page from the Rebel Alliance book and opt for more starfighters and corvettes, backed up by few light modular cruisers and single Death Dorito hanging in the back.
Alan living the space Balkan lifestyle
4:07 AKA Barbarians from the North. They somehow take down empires all over the world, even in Mississippi across the Atlantic.
No. Sorry. It is NOT feasible to have that large of a fleet. Do not try to make sense of piss poor story writing of 7-9. Without such infrastructure as the Kuat, Corellian, or Fondor shipyards, the first order had no capability. Even in starwars lore it took centuries, for the these shipyards to get fully operational. And since these regions are so isolated, there is no need for that region a space to have prebuilt shipyards for that scale.
no it doesn't make any sense. But we are talking about Disney Star Wars...none of the sequel trilogy is worth a damn nor makes any sense.
Hoarding an entire fleet's worth of resources at Exegol would only have made sense if Palpatine knew he was going to die at Endor and need ships for his clone to command, and he definitely didn't. He very clearly thought he'd won when he set that trap. If the rebels hadn't gotten incredibly lucky in a dozen different ways he would have won easily.
The entire confrontation in RotJ was really well written, the sequel trilogy was hot garbage by comparison. Mon Mothma had personally experienced what underestimating the imperials had lead to, demilitarizing the entire galaxy made no sense. That's exactly what made it vulnerable to Palpatine's plan in the first place.
It has nothing to do with this video, but I have a request. I would very much like if one day you made a video focusing on the different money types in Star Wars and how they compare to each other and the denominations. I don't think there's a fixed number anywhere in canon, but I think somebody has detail oriented as yourself could possibly sleuth out some pretty good numbers for denominations.
Do I like the sequels: No
Was the ship design awesome?: Yes
Even in our own world we find that more advanced weapons get smaller and way more accurate. Thus you don't need as many of them.
Nice view bro
To build a large fleet all you need is a fiat currency, 0% interest rates and banking cartel..... central bank. So easy to figure this one out.
So glad the sequels are probably going to be retconed out of existence in the coming years.
Thank you for pointing out the history of other non European empires and their conquests. It does not excuse European history it's just nice to see someone pointing out the conquests of others.
Oh God I just realized that I'm slowly learning about real world politics by watching videos about Star Wars.
The size of FO vessels was a problem for me. From the pre-TFA descriptions what would fit more would be smaller, sleek, high tech murderships (basically Jeune École of Star Wars).
Then again scale is not really a problem if you do not have to worry about keeping Core citizens happy enough. Go for North Korea level of militarization and you have enough manpower.
Better reason The outer rim had a starforge maybe not a fully capable one but able to make the simple SSD and Dreadnoughts
Based on the comments, it's looking like a lot of people don't know or don't remember a lot of the old EU lore that took place after the return of the jedi. Byss was a super fortress world that had a zealotry akin to the pius dea. They also had the automation, technology, production, and resources to make a fleet this massive. It was a deep core version of anaxes almost. The EU also had the empire of the hand and the dark empire that gave a precedent in the world building side of things. Palpatine had been planning this since the clone wars as well so it wasnt like it was overnight thing. Palpatine had backup plans upon backup plans. It wasnt like the empire just gave up either when Palpatine died. The galactic civil war raged on for long after the battle of endor up until the yuuzhan vong war in one form or another.
Anyone else hear Generation Tech Money instead of Generation Tech My Name? Asking for a friend.