I was running nearly the same build but have switched over to a striker with capacitor build. Hits about the same but more skills and armor. Really enjoyed the video.
This is what I’m running now too. Picaro and another of the same. Ninja bike and everything red with striker chest. With technician to get three yellows. 157k damage on the capacitor at 1.2 mill armor.
Awesome vid! I love this video and I love you for taking the time to make it. This was a no-brainer to tweet this one out...fog dude coming with the facts! 🧠💯 I've been telling people that about measure for years now. I always have to explain to them how it works and why it's effective. They seem to get stuck on the near side of the numbers, they see that negative 20 or 30 and just move on to the next talent. I've always felt like it was one of the strongest towns in the game at least with my builds. I've never been one for running around with a revive hive, nor without armor cores and goin all red. It made survivability on heroic and legendary a massive headache. And since the new gear pieces have been added, people are finally opening up to hybrid builds more and more. That ninja bike backpack is a beast, it should have made it into the game at year two.(@ least div2 has it now) I still see people setting up builds with the pestilence LMG, putting on a vile mask too, all as if pestilence is the status effect. It is not.(would be cool if it was tho) Anyway I can talk Division for days... If you're out there making build videos I highly recommend you watch this video and watch it more than once, cuz we are all sick and tired of the stupid clickbait titles declaring this build and this gun blah blah blah now the best. It's running around words multiplicative additive and not even knowing what they mean in full.(not to mention how they applied in this format) This is why I don't go around making build videos... First of all there's already plenty. You could be as good as Fog here, and put out the best build videos known to division universe... There ALWAYS going to be someone out there who finds issue with what you're saying, how you're saying it, and even how/why ur goin bout doing it. Don't get me wrong I don't hate build videos. I very much appreciate good ones w/solid grip on facts to support what they're saying. (Fog did that here in spades! ♠️'s, KUDOS!! ⭕)
Awesome analysis, definitely an eye opener. I was one of the commenters on a previous vid who fumed that the M4 was so low on the best AR list 😂. But I’ll try some new all red builds adding a blue core, because as you said ‘Survivability adds to your damage’. Good stuff!
I am now running my PvE striker build with 2B 4R with gunner and the new palisade one piece for a total of 20% armor on kill. Good balance of damage and survivability for me
13 years ago World of Warcraft was my first MMO. I started as a DPS class (rogue, pretty squishy). And when i was in my first dungeon, a friend of mine, who introduced me to this game, told me one thing that i keep in mind till this day, he said: "Don't fking die here Johny, dead DPS can't inflict any damage at all." I like raw damage, big numbers and sh!t, but lesson learned, and i never forget about survivability. 1-2 blue cores is my go to for almost every DPS build, and here you prove my feelings with some math. Thanks for the video! Great channel, definitely a sub!👍
Great video as always sir.. Don't listen to others.. I absolutely love the math and presentation in your videos.. You actually do practical testing and take a practical approach to things which some ppl fail to realize!
exactly my point after watching one of Dod-Regnbue video, where he says "if you run not 6 red hunters fury build - you doing it wrong", I wanted to tell him about diminishing return and TTK, and that single (better 2) blue core make HF much stronger (especially if adding palisade and 30% armor on kill to the equation) but I too lazy. And I can't change "6 red or noob" mentality anyways :D Thank god I'm not the only one, now I can just link to this video
Thank you Sir - very informative video - I rarely comment on videos, but your methodical approach motivated me to change some of my load outs - also, it seems that many players are comfortable with around 1.1 mil armour (2 Blue cores)… can’t wait to see what actual math shows
I play mainly Countdown for crafting materials/exotics. Been running Striker/Sacrifice/Coyote/Elmo and it works pretty well just have to be mindful due to low survivability. However watched FOW other video on running 3 piece Striker/Ninja bp/Picarios/Brazos chest and I've really enjoyed it. That extra 50% mag really makes up for any lost dmg plus with a 6 core shield I can stand up to enemies so much easier.
I agree with TTK being the final output. Its how i gauge "value" of damage that i trade for something else. Its why I really like Ninjabike + 1pc Hotshot and 1pc Belstone on some of my builds. Im okay trading Vigilance plus crit for the utility of handling and heals. Ive had people say thats like a 31% damage loss but when i ask them to further factor in TTK, it comes out to an average of, on paper, 0.3 to 0.5 second difference (not including the accuracy and sustain benefits so its realistically less then that). Now the 31% difference doesnt seem as big. Personally, its why i play more hybrid builds when solo. I dont need that extra damage nor is that extra damage more valuable to me then better utility. It's also why I like Riot Foam on my builds, it essentially provides 100% accuracy and removes incoming damage. I have alway like Measured over other talents on some builds. If i can kill stuff in half a mag or under a full mag, it always felt like it had a slightly better TTK. All red builds, to me, are only really necessary for speed running where every second matters. Group composition also matters. In a group with a healer or CC that mitigate/remove incoming damage to Red player, then the benefits of an armor core are not needed, so in those groups, an all red setup would be preferred and why most people ask for/recommend it. These "ideal" groups are not always possible though with random matchmaking and so when i do random group, i always bring in a more hybrid build. So in the end, a build really depends on a lot of factors beyond just spreadsheet numbers.
I agree with everything. I personally prefer the Memento over NBB but your addition of Hotshot+Bellstone is one of the best uses. I add Weapon Handling attributes to Memento builds instead of an NBB setup, I think there's better returns from higher regen, bonus armour and skill efficiency. As for Group play, definitely. You can go full retard on damage, as long as someone else in the team is making up for your weaknesses (Status or Heals). You can specialise in groups; in solo, you have to be more of a generalist.
@@fogowar2022 The stat value from Memento is really good. I prefer Memento for some builds and NBB for some other builds. Depends on what I'm going for. But another quality of life thing from NBB I like is having some utility up front without the need to pick up trophies. When I random matchmake, a lot of the sessions are one mission and then the group disbands. It's annoying to have to reset Memento each time and "recharge" it. If I turn it into an NBB build, I can get some of that value up front and have it all times. But for uninterrupted sessions, Memento for sure out values just about anything else.
@@syngeist The trophy lag is real. If you fast travel to missions, instead of safe houses, you can avoid losing the buff. But for one off missions, in a group, I get the advantage of the NBB up front advantage.
When i went flawlesss on a couple activities such as paradise lost, it came clear to me that you would want to burst down your enemies quicker than they could shoot back at you and destroy your armor. Armor in this game’s pve is rather weak in endgame activities since most enemies do so much damage that armor can barely make a difference and even can say that your damage output is lower at the cost of slightly more survivability causing skill tiers and weapon damage to have much more value.
In incursion and countdown you run 3 protection from elites mods instead of x amount of blue cores. Protection from elites mods are basically free survivability since they only take away low importance crit mods away instead of reds
Thanks a lot for the in-depth analysis! That was really enlightening. so there might be a balance between choosing reds, blues, weapon talents on weapons and gear VS Rounds on Target talents (brace, stabilize, near sighted). I'm looking forward to what you find out in the future!!
Excellent video! I really hope more people watch this. I’m sick and tired of narrow minded persons just enjoying the look of all red and pressuring persons to develop the same striker build. This makes content harder on the overall player base because persons are not diversifying builds to give a 4 man team meaningful benefits/buffs.
gg. i rarely end up in an all red build. Unless im doing content where other agents push back on builds. Yet from intuition and experience i end up in similar place, which would include some resistance to damage. well done
@fogowar2022 Honestly can't believe you're at the amount of subs you're at. Definitely deserve much more. Your content is unlike any other creator I've watched for Division.
I learned this 1st hand the other night, i have an all red hitting 585k on KB and crits in the 800k, i have a 3r4b1y that hits around 130k and crits around 280s. Without a doubt the 3r4b1y is the superior choice for me. 6r build has momento so gains about 70k bonus armour near enemies per enemy, While my 3r4b1y has 440k AoK and 17k regen. I can stand in the center of a group and asborb all damage while killing due to the AoK, with the all reds i stand in middle of a group and i kill maybe 2 guys before i am dead or 1 guy before i am scrambing for cover to waste time using an armor kit.
Over the years, I've followed various builds meant to "melt" enemies. At Level 3600+, I have sufficient resources to replicate any fully optimized build identically. Did I "melt" enemies? Technically, yes, but it took time. Your approach to focus on TTK instead of DPS - and using tweaks to influence TIME - is a significant mind-shift. I can understand why you get haters and naye-sayers. The "all-red core gold gear" and "Focus only on DPS" approaches were revelations that worked in the game's early days and were essential in Raids. However, as older players left the game and newer players continued their advice, we benefited from developer changes and advances that gave us opportunities for new thinking. I've had limited success with Striker. And have not been a fan of Measured. But after trying your build and joining in on random players on Heroic running multiple Directives, WOW. More than WOW. I grinned with glee. Evil glee. Unashamed glee! Scenario after scenario, I melted enemies. And melted. And I felt powerful. And I went down a few times (due to the Directives and my mistakes - I'm not perfect). But I don't recall every having this degree of sinister satisfaction in the last 2+ years playing Division 2. The irony of the TTK approach is that "TTK" is in the White House basement range, on the far end. We use the range a lot but we gloss over its holographic letters. My "traditional" all-red Raid build has 56% Critical Hit Chance and 231.9% Critical Hit Damage. Many jaws drop at my stats. But I still struggle. At the White House's range, using an AKM with Strained, Vigilance, and Glass Cannon on my gear, my TTK time to take out all the enemy planks on the far end is a bit over 15 seconds. But your build using a GR9 (Damage to Armor and Measured) took 10.2 seconds, compared to 17 seconds with a FAMAS using the same talent. For the St. Elmo, it took 15.2 seconds. So, did it outperform my Raid build? Until now, many have touted Glass Cannon's talent as a "must-have" for Raids. Your build proves an all-red gold-gear approach is no longer necessary. I can now dish out very satisfying levels of damage with significantly less risk. Again, I can't stop grinning as enemies fall, one after the other. I was also pleasantly surprised with the GR9. With a 200-round capacity, there's plenty of ammo to enjoy the effects of Measured on top of the Striker's Battlegear's +15% rate of fire. It took a bit of time but it handled Rogue Agents quite well for me. And the FAMAS was incredibly enjoyable for short-range situations using Measured. Fog, thank you. Just looking at things differently really opens up the game in amazing, rewarding, and enjoyable ways! (And me too - loved the fishermen analogy!)
@@fogowar2022 Haha, I've switched FROM Steady Handed! Are you suggesting Steady Handed mainly to cut down on reload time? Would that improve significantly over Measured in the long run?
@@ako3180 Depends on the content level and build. At Legendary, the lack of reload and the additional accuracy, over the longer engagement distances, will definitely add to your damage output. It's hard to feel it, because your programmed to focus on threat but think about how much damage you'd do during the period you would have been reloading, averaged over firing time, that's a significant improvement and that's on top of the accuracy benefits. At Heroic level, myeh.
Always all red run n gun from the get, problem is most don't want to take the time to learn the surrounding awareness, proper placement and movement skills it requires to stay alive being squishy. I like the fact that a mistake can get you wrecked or killed, its the only thing keeping the game with any sense of accomplishment. No shields either, running around wrecking everything in some "god mode" or a shield to bail you out of a mistake would render the game worthless to me.
It's hard to provide advice for the masses, when individual skill plays such a huge part of the game. All red builds teach you excellent damage mitigation tactics.
@@fogowar2022 You did a great job in the vid brother. Your right, the skill it takes to play through a scope and one shot is way beyond me, but they are nice in a group bring up the rear for sure.
The flaw of the whole theory is, in div2 pve, mobs have really bad 'reaction time', they also get mini-stunned by your bullets, you can also shoot them when they are aiming at your teammates. The TTD/TTK calculations are only correct when you face tanking, but that's not how a squishy dps build work. You need enough armor to prevent sudden death when screw up, and some kind of armor regen to keep going, thats all.
If you never take damage, sure, you've got nothing better to invest in. Congrats, you've beat the game. You missed the point how blue cores aren't about 'not dying'
Check out this build fog: Strikers and coyote with palisade chest w/ obliterate. Gunner. Everything rolled WH and red except 1 blue core. Make sure crit chance is 35% for AR of your choice (ranger, preservation, any talent) and ~55-60% for Oroborous. Everything within 20m is Oreo and rest is beamed with AR. 20% AOK and 1 skill tier shield.
Everything rolled WH is quite an investment. Diminished returns applies to WH too. I'd probably run Preservation but with AoK, that's a lot of reliance on making kills. All said though, I can see it working. The OB would feel like a laser beam and there's now the instant armour kit to get you out of super sticky situations.
@@fogowar2022 I was using it for heroic 3 directives manhunt and being able to keep enemies at a distance but still have massive damage (less drop off, more rounds on target) made things a lot easier. I was able to kill things from 80-90 meters away with a ranger AK lol. The Oreo really doesn't lose all that much in terms of TTK.
People dont realzie how they are trying tl apply things they hear abojt damages to a dummy as real encounter equals. Its same reason unless ur using chest and back and have constant max stats HB is bettter then striker. As well as things like landing ur shots because no stat is going to make up missing shots. Meanwhile the best two things most people dont realize about striker is the RoF and handling are the best things about the set. Ill always take some armor and faster ability to aquire and stay on target over pure dps. Also alot of builds are based on hownit performa with memento and alot of these builds fall apart when u cant use its benefits like anytime ur in a group. It's like hit chance when its not actually a stat
This is exactly what I've gathered from your previous videos! If you put 15+ lvl of expertise on a weapon, on an all red build (especially Strikers), then put a blue core back on. You will never notice that extra 15% stacked on top of the 100s of bonus weapon damage that gearset gives you. If you stack 25 lvls on your weapon, put two blue cores back on. That shield and the AoK will actually feel like something then. Cheers Fog!
On the flip side, the same diminished returns curve is also applied to blue cores, even though they're "value" based vs "percent" based. Which is why I find little value in running an all blue Foundry Bulwark/Armor Regen build. Yes you can face tank the boss at the end of DUA Legendary, but good luck ever getting him down by yourself. Going with my previous comment (and your videos main assertion), adding anything to a pool of zero will instantly give the biggest ROI. ...one of my grounding philosophies when looking at a build is, "fix the broke stuff (lowest/worst values) first."
...I should realllllly finish watching before posting comments. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 ....I would counter your "time to die" vs not real diminishing returns on blue cores with the caveat it still is... It doesn't matter what units you use, whether armor, HP or seconds... you're still adding small increments to an ever increasing denominator (pool). If you stretch those added cores out exponentially eventually you will see very very little gain in overall TTD. There does need to be something mentioned about balancing TTK and TTD or the number of enemies targeting you will eventually overpower your builds ability to compensate. AoK only works if you get the 'K', and only keeps up if it you get more 'Ks' than incoming 'D'. As for the bonus to the shield, that cannot be overstated - very meaningful gains in this specific scenario (adding blues 1-3, adding blues 4-6 could still need investigation).
This is absolutely all your fault. You made a 40 minute video. I can't watch anything Division related for that long without turning into that Leonardo DiCaprio meme where he pops off the couch and points at the screen, and I have to immediately post a comment. Cheers!
Another brilliant video Fog. Could I just check one thing, please? When we put on a blue core, do we actually get 187k armour? (170k plus the 10% from our watch).
Holy sh*t dude, can't believe I've never noticed that. The watch stat is a 10% unique, TOTAL armour increase. So technically, we're still getting 170K. (660K base + 170K) * 110% = 913K. But you're right, the equivalent of 187K for every armour core added. That's going in the next video. Cheers Gary.
I start making the highest damage build in my "Build the Meta" video and it finishes with "The Winner is.." video. I'm now working my way backwards and replacing damage components, so I'm not finished yet.
Half the fun is grinding it out yourself. But I do find myself taking screenshots, camera grabs of builds as a reference for something to try later. Div Life.
So many great things about this video…. 1) I’m totally one of those that bought the hype about measured not being good. I’ve now been proven wrong. Thank you! 2) math works…. All the time! Math has 100% up time…. It’s also why I really like your videos, proven by a preponderance of the evidence. I’ve said it before: you go beyond what the numbers and stats show. Thank you! 3) your point about just one blue core is well received, I’ve always thought that the chest gear should have an armor core…. Just for the realizlsm. I also think that’s why Momento became the number on backpack…. Yeah it has a lot going for it, but I don’t think “ability to damage enemies longer” is on most people’s list (shout out to the ninja bike too) so thank you for highlighting yet another reason Momento is king! 4) lastly, and I think this gets to your “bullets on target” idea - I remember in one of your first videos you gave your viewers a homework assignment: to check what adding weapon handling does to damage output. I haven’t competed that assignment yet but I think sprinkling in some would help improve overall TRK with more rounds on target. Thanks again for your dedication to this game and all your analysis. Helps me see the game from a different perspective. 🤜🤛
My wife has been screaming at people since 2006 in our first WoW raid that “dead dps don’t do damage” and everyone treats her like she’s insane for not wanting to top every damage meter. As a math major, I think she’s going to enjoy this takedown in ways I will never be able to appreciate. Thanks!
I quite often outperform all red striker build as shown with regen ladydeath or heartbreaker 3blue with backpack simply because I am able to not sit in a cover all the time and outsurvive. Healer in a party makes striker super strong though
Also I would like to request a Picaro's holster check. I feel this one piece of gear is a powerhouse of damage even without the extra red core. Just a suggestion. Thanks
That holster is the legendary mementos i love it like the chill out mask. But seriously what legendary beats picaros. Only thing that worth while is dodgecity or waveform
@@fogowar2022 I play this with the ninja bike backpack. Its basically a one piece everything build lol love that backpack. Also brought the rifle back to my setup. Feels good. Pin point damage. Also in- sync on the rifle and spotter on the chest. As a technician for the laser and skill tier 👌
I use the same build with picarios holser, so I won. =p However, I very often play with much less effective builds, just because of the most important factor in the game.. the fun.
I have been testing a build that is comprised of the memento backpack/ninja biker messenger backpack; the Picaro’s Holster; Uzina Getica mask and kneepads; Walker, Harris and Co. body armor and Contractor's Gloves = 3 red and 4 blue cores. Let me know if such a build is a good idea. It has done wonders for me on many occasions.
Funny you reply now. I'm currently binge watching your videos. I did watch the two follow up videos already. Answered all my questions and then some. Excellent work FoW!
Hi Fog, could you do an analysis for Exotic ARs with DTOOC and LMGs with ROF, just to see if such 3rd attribute changes, besides some base stats changing, make some Exotic ARs/LMGs shine? 🤔
The math bears things out but so much of this analysis relies on one’s playstyle and ability to mitigate damage/shoot straight. I’ve always told people that if you need additional damage mitigation , run those and if you don’t then don’t. For example - I used to run glass all red but now I use obliterate simply because I am always targeted preferentially by enemy grenades and die a lot due to being “one shot” by them.
It's not just about damage mitigation. The biggest point is, when you don't have to mitigate damage, you are doing damage, which results in more damage. This is one of the biggest mistakes when it comes to damage, confusing more blues as being "not dying", when it's more about more time doing damage.
Fog I’ve been curious about this concept but applied to the secondary attribute status effects. Example Ongoing Dir + Vile build. Is there an optimal amount of +10 status effects secondary to have until you see a diminishing return on duration of said SE, at which point it may be more beneficial to use crit etc instead
Majority if stats receive diminished returns, including SE. The good part about SE is you can see the difference in the skill stat sheet. The meaningful part of a SE is: are the enemies all dead before it wears off? As soon as as the answer is yes, anything more has zero return. At some point, of bridging the gap between SE duration and TTK, you will likely get more benefit reducing the TTK, rather than extending a SE duration.
With a vial to pump that one up you need to start putting explosive attributes on for it to smack harder because it's based on the concussion grenade in particular. Did a year or so ago it was pretty fun.(Fire & Bleed, cra cra)
Thanks for this video. I’ve been playing with Striker- watching my ttk- I added 1 yellow & menmento. I don’t think armor matters that much. But I will give it a try
@@AKThompson I have preservation on my gun- The only reason I don’t run blue cores is because 1 blue core is what? 1 or 2 bullet difference. That’s why I use yellow. I have 4red 3yellow 1blue striker build
@Ipleadthefifth. I don't think you understand though. Memento is the *strongest* application in the game for blue cores if you've ever read it's talent you would know why. Not only bonus armor and armor regen are more valuable in general with more armor. The talent itselfs bonus armor is improved by entire 10% increments. I've soloed tidal basin with no skips on legendary on xbox(and every other legendary) and I can tell you for a fact having a stronger decoy is not nearly as good as grabbing 50% bonus armor per trophy pickup. Alongside the built in tankiness of course.
The yellows will provide shield strength, that will provide the duration of damage. This will be buffed further by the skill efficiency of Memento. The efficiency will help with cooldown times on the shield (which blues and shield tiers do not), which is good because you're relying on it for survivability. And Preservation is one of the best weapon talents (it would get buffed with extra blues though). I like your build concept. But you might find it a little harder in TU20. The enemy AI seems to have been kicked up a notch and I think they are much better at flanking now. If they get beside or behind the shield, you might get in trouble without the blues. If you're running a Striker Drone, you might be able to mitigate this but definitely give some blues a chance and see which works better for you.
Armor and armor regen is by far a necessary trait in this game. I can not express that more. People that think their damage is the only thing that determines a good run on content is foolish. And if you have been playing this game for a while and still think this way, your stubborn. 😂 you carrying a revive hive is diminishing. Your teammates can revive you. All red makes you paper thin. Which adds to the difficulty of the mission. Try some solo legendary, even if you don't complete it. You will see what kind of build you have. Can say more but no one listens 😔 good video as usual fog.
Oh boy another dissertation XD I will listen to it all, just I see that length and know I'm in a for a ride :) Also who were these people saying 6R was meta? I have personally been screaming from the rooftops for some time now about AWFUL 6R feels, and that Armor in general overperforms - conclusions I came to myself rather quickly on my own, but then your videos (and hanging around RG's channel) reaffirmed That being said, I have a rather janky theory build I want to test with Ninjabike, 2-3 pieces of Hunter's Fury and whatever other sets will net the most max health with all of it rolled to get Skill Tier 6 and as much skill haste & duration as possible & using the Capacitor as my primary - effectively a "Skill Tank" that relies on constantly refreshing a massive health pool and the Defender Drone to cut incoming damage.
Interesting build idea. Never fallen in love with HF myself. Deliberately closing distance with multiple enemies, to be within 15m, has always put me off.
@@BitLyrist running Deflector shield or Crusader ? Sounds awesome either way. I'm just looking at what the max possible HP is now with capped SHD bonuses, and it seems to be in the neighborhood of 900k and that's if you only run 2p Hunters, ignoring the set bonus for the whopping 90% Ceska gives. But I think it's better to have 1 Guilla Guard over Aegis because you're trading 10% HP for 5% total armor & an additional stat, which will be vital since the build I have in mind is actually going to want to roll Health (weird I know) and then skill haste wherever possible. The real sticking point is Firewall vs Technician; 30% (80 total) Health on Kill vs a free skill tier.
Would you ever release your damage spreadsheet? After watching your channel I don't really trust any other spreadsheets, calculators and build makers that tell you your burst damage up front. Now I'm wondering, how can I use a spreadsheet to figure out if I can fit another blue core without losing much TTK?
D15P4tch has a pretty good one he calls "The BLAKE". Look his channel up and you'll find a link. I have been thinking of doing a tutorial on how to construct your own, for a while now, but never got around to it
How can that build @ 00.47 be the most damaging build, when the chameleon does more damage than st elmos? I agree with most the other stuff, more than 4 red cores is worthless, i actually only run 3, 4 if im in a group with a dedicated healer. As MMO players say "you cant do damage if your dead!!"
@@fogowar2022 that comment was before I realized you're basing damage off TTK rather than DPS, at which point you'd be correct especially since the NPCs run around like they ain't been shot 147 times lol
@@fogowar2022 there was 🤣 you obviously had something to prove to some people. Comment was more for a friend who shared this video to me when he's the one going through a build crisis right now 🤣
No, with that logic you can put 2 blues, then 3... and you will finish with tank(God) build, Your damage will be really low, but you will never die and in sum you'll cause more damage vs reds. So let me call this BS
Call it whatever you like but you have completely misunderstood the concept. There is a tipping point before you reach tank status. As you take damage cores away, the % taken gets greater. As you add more skill tiers to the shield, shield health improves less. The 6th red core adds little, the 1st blue core adds a lot and that lot added, is more than the little lost. All this video says is that the tipping point for benefit is at least 1 x blue core.
@@fogowar2022 Sure I understand what are you trying to explain but anyway you've less dps with one blue VS all reds and if someone wants to get the most effective dps, all reds if the way to go
@@fogowar2022 I'm arguing with you because I understand very well. Firing rage or gameplay... 1 blue DO NOT provides more dps. DPS is about damage per second, one blue never can provide more DPS. what are you talking about man, think about that. go and fu**ing test it
@@morganmadagon One last time, I will try to help you. You believe DPS to be what happens in the firing range and even then, you're still mistaken. Put on a sniper build, go to the firing range, kill a red target. Then replace a red with a blue, kill the target. DPS doesn't change, it's still one bullet. Your red core did not change DPS. Work out how many blues you can add before your DPS actually goes down. Now, strip your build of CHD and CC. Then realise, all those red cores and red attributes didn't make your DPS go up. Zero DPS change. In that situation, which is more than half of the entire game at Heroic Solo, a blue core or literally any other stat choice available in the game, would have been better than the choices you had previously made. This video is an extension of that principle. Damage per second is not what comes out of your weapon; it is a measure of how much damage lands on a target. Your understanding of DPS has no correlation to actual DPS. The one simple example proves that and that is in the firing range, which is still only a small piece of the puzzle. I really hope that helps.
You've already got 15% RoF from Strikers, so any benefit of the Rof is diminished and it's only half the % you're getting from DTOC, which is likely unique to the build. On another build, RoF might win out, especially when you consider how much the AI likes to take cover since TU20, but on a Strikers, with no Fox's, DTOC for the win.
@fogowar2022 I'm running all red with Coyote and ceska chest with obliterate. I found that the 99% of game Content I can't get max striker chest (200) and I can easily get to 100%. If I swap to one blue core . Coyote ceska/ob 4 striker. Dtoc is still better? Seems like 7% rof is like a direct 7% damage.
@fogowar2022 no you're right was thinking of allegro. Ya I guess dtoc would be better. Also I ran the rack at the range with my all red vs 1 blue. You're 100% right cleared the rack in the same amount of time.
Assuming you replaced the red core or damage talent with something that either turns the miss into a hit (accuracy) or something that grants you more time to make the hit (duration). Otherwise, a miss is just a miss.
Which is why my eyes were opened to weapon handling. It was like seeing the sun for the first time. AND with the changes to Overlord. Im in accuracy /stability heaven. Not to mention a reload speed of like a second
@@TheBigBlueMarblethere is a big split in KBM vs controller perception of the value of weapons handling and how it maps into the "best" weapon (on paper).
explains an awful lot of what I see playing. A one blue core strikers build is superior and I've long since abandoned damage talents on weapons but a shield is still a crutch.
I see this as heavily biased. The only time you would need a blue core is standing in front of enemies just like the only demonstration shown. If you would properly position behind the large cover with the shield, you would not take fatal damage with 6 reds so the 1 blue would be completely redundant. Why don`t you show a side by side comparison killing with the 6 reds compared to 5/1? I have tried going 5/1 cores before, and the amount of time I left enemies on less than 5% hp was quite infuriating. Not to mention without striker stacks they didnt die before the stagger ended from the 1st shot.
Here is the unbiased answer to your queries. 1 red core amounts to less than 0.03s. For the average enemy, the one red core is very unlikely to reduce the bullets to kill by even 1 x bullet, so more than likely zero difference, at all. As a very oversimplified example, if you're killing enemies in 10 bullets, you need 10% more damage to make a difference ie. Reducing from 10 to 9 bullets; a 6th red core offers 6.5%. There is more variation from RNG on crits, than there is in the difference in TTK between 6/6 to 5/1. Your attribution of blame is the bias, unless you ran your test 1000s of times. If you were leaving enemies with 5% HP, you never would have killed them anyway. And that's assuming you magically ran out of bullets, when they had 5% left, every single time; otherwise fire 1 more bullet, which takes less than 0.1s regardless of which AR you're holding. That's literally the worst result. They have now removed the shield peak glitch, so you cannot do damage without exposing yourself to damage. Whether the 1.2 secs shield duration materialises in one go (as shown), or if it is spread out over a whole wave, it is still 1.2 secs worth of extra damage. If you are going behind cover to avoid damage to your shield, you're not doing damage. The one blue core allows you to do that (not do damage) for MINIMUM 1.2secs less, not to mention the vast amount of time over which the higher rate of shield repair amounts to the same thing ie. more damage. I have shown, NUMEROUS times, the difference of damage between 6/6, 5/1 and I've even taken it to comparing with Glass Cannon and without and it is virtually impossible for a human to tell the difference and that is when they are shown side by side, let alone apart. That's because the difference between the two is less than human reaction time. Whatever you were seeing, is not there. If you're using Striker, the time difference in TTK is even smaller, not more. As for Stagger, this occurs in half the time of TTK. Hope that helps.
@@fogowar2022 If you ran 6 cores all the time, and suddenly went 5/1 the difference is huge because you just know enemy will die and they wont. Its the same in reverse. you run 5/1 all the time and notice the times you would still have a shield up but it brakes. I run 6 cores and I almost never need to take my shield out because I use good cover and not expose myself to multiple enemies, when I start shooting an enemy they die before they can shoot back. Taking out the shield is kind of pointless and stops you from shooting. You are bias trying to convince people 5/1 will get you more damage in a run. You learned to play with a blue, that is what FEELs good for you, so you are biast. Just as much as I am with 6 reds.
@@AAgun94 By using 6 reds, you ARE doing more damage, no disagreement, but ONLY when you are doing damage. You've just failed to consider all the time that you lost moving or taking cover, instead of doing damage, that you could have been, had you been using a shield. In a true damage/over time perspective, you are doing less DPS. That has always been my point. There are ways of increasing DPS, without increasing your damage stats. The 6 red META has been a situation of its own design. You need high burst DPS, because you can only be out of cover for a short burst. Sustained damage is higher damage than Burst, in most cases the equivalent of greater than 20% amplified damage. The more sustained damage you can do, the higher your damage output. Balancing the trade-off to achieve that is the key and there will be a tipping point but as this video points out, the tipping point is past 5/1 minimum, irrespective of your skill level.
@@fogowar2022 There is no point counting moving and taking cover. You have to do that no matter what build you are running. You either shooting or you dont. Forget about sustained damage. It only comes into play when you are unable to kill a target in a single mag. Witch rarely happens (with 6 red). When enemy dies you have to search for new targets and you can relocate/reload in that time.
@@AAgun94 I'm sorry, I'm going to end this here. This isn't me being rude but genuinely trying to help. Almost everything you've just said, in your last comment, is incorrect. When you understand that, your views might change. Until then, continue doing whatever you like.
I'm not a casual player but I have (for sure) just a casual mind... what hell of screwed up magic happened here? 😵💫 I understood enough to know that I'm (somehow) wrong... but not enough to be able to correct this. That means, now I'm wrong AND confused. Wish I've never seen this video... Damn... I've always hated not being smart Edit: "Liked" the video...out of pure desperation
I am now crying into the keyboard, as I delete the last year of solid research. Based on your thorough breakdown and expert analysis, there's no other option.
The majority of people don't understand how complicated the game actually is. By the same token, the majority of people do just fine at the game without even caring about the maths.
Haha😂 got to the end and yes. The old advice in this game is drivel. The best builds are the ones tested in the field. Not a cookie cutter build someone told you was supposed to be for you. I never followed people and have been mostly solo the entire 5 years. My clan quit years ago lol 😆 😂 🤣
Fair comment. It's just draining being attacked all the time by people with shallow understanding; that undertone is directed at them. It's gotten less, over time, as I've piled up evidence but the community can be and has been pretty toxic. Apologies that this seeps in, I'll try to be more mindful.
I totally get that - I made the comment about 15 minutes in and considered going back and revising it after watching the whole video. Am very impressed with your approach and even more so with you actually engaging with a comment like this 👍 Have subscribed and am looking forward to the content 😊👍
My vote is for unwavering if it's your secondary, though I'd rather put it on a 45 vector. Talk about rounds on target and increased uptime on firing vs reload
Someone else suggested it. There are other factors to consider but giving up 10%CC and 12% CHD is the big one. I'll run some numbers. Red, blue or yellow Forge?
@@fogowar2022 red forge. yeah you're losing some crit, but a Red core is much more consequential than crit damage, as long as youre getting enough CHC.
There are two culprits here... one, regurgitators of untested claims throughout the community, and two, the very word "percentage" and it's most basic meaning of "out of 100". You can't really blame the word per se, but peoples' natural inclination to compare anything added to builds to that base notion of starting at "100", when they're really adding to a pot of 200, 300, etc.... and we're no longer comparing "of 100", but "of a much bigger notation".
Perhaps the confusion could be resolved a bit easier if at each point of "adding 15%" the value added is shown as a fraction of the whole, 15/115, 15/130,.... 15/525... I should probably finish the video first. ;p
You show a decrease of the relative increase, nothing wrong about it. But i really dont get it, why you insist on using the wrong term for this. There are other things in Div2 that are really affected by diminishing returns, like Increasing Expertise, Optimization, Clutch, Duration of Status Effects I agree, that it´s nonsense to put all eggs in one basket, if there is another basket. And I agree with most of your conclusions, but that doesnt make your usage of the term correct. Now to your example i = ModifierInput d = total damage i0 = 0 % , d0 = 1000000 i1 = 15 % , d1 = 1150000 i2 = 30 % , d2 = 1300000 i3 = 45 % , d3 = 1450000 your calculation shows only a diminishing relatve increase with no relation to the input d1/d0 = 1.15 d2/d0 = 1.3 d3/d0 = 1.45 d2/d1 = 1.13043 d3/d1 = 1.26087 d3/d2 = 1.11538 The People that are correct calculate the 'marginal product' to check if there are Increasing, Constant or Diminishing returns: (Output2-Output1)/(Input2-Input1) in this case of the total damage, it shows a constant return (d1 − d0)/(i1 − i0) = 1000000 (d2 − d0)/(i2 − i0) = 1000000 (d3 − d0)/(i3 − i0) = 1000000 (d2 − d1)/(i2 − i1) = 1000000 (d3 − d1)/(i3 − i1) = 1000000 (d3 − d2)/(i3 − i2) = 1000000 Quote From the patch notes: Added diminishing returns* for all Status Effects based on two categories: *Diminishing returns means that each subsequent application of the Status Effect of the same category will have a reduced duration until full immunity is reached. Diminishing Returns will not apply in PvE. they didn´t show numbers so i had to make some up: 6s, 4s, 2s, 0s i = Number of Applications d = total duration i1 = 1 , d1 = 6 i2 = 2 , d2 = 10← i3 = 3 , d3 = 12 i4 = 4 , d4 = 12 as you can see, the marginal products diminish (d2 − d1)/(i2 − i1) = 4 (d3 − d1)/(i3 − i1) = 3 (d3 − d2)/(i3 − i2) = 2 (d4 − d1)/(i4 − i1) = 2 (d4 − d2)/(i4 − i2) = 1 (d4 − d3)/(i4 − i3) = 0
I add 15%WD, I get 13% TTK. I add another 15%, I get 10% TTK. I add another 15%, get 8.8% TTK. This is diminished by a greater margin than just the relative increase in WD. What is the correct term for that? EDIT: I've tried to understand your point of view on this, I really have. You sound like an intelligent person, which makes it worse that I've wasted so much time thinking about semantics. Final Attempt: Improvements on TTK, from damage increases, will always approach 0. Damage is not completely gradual, it is quantised, is the form of bullets. With the addition of damage, every system will approach the minimum of 1 bullet. Post that point, any damage input has ZERO return and there are numerous build/weapon configurations where you will have ZERO differential difference before reaching the next quantised jump, well before you even reach the minimum of 1 bullet. To the best of my knowledge, no differential increase (as you describe it) can ever reach 0. This diminishing in output seems to be the EXACT SAME as the Diminishing Returns status effect example that you provided. If damage doesn't provide Diminished Returns, we can agree: I have no idea what you're talking about.
@@fogowar2022 The rule of diminishing returns only apply to a function, where only one input is allowed to change and all other inputs are constant e.g. f(x) = c*(1 + x) When i looked at the relative increase is saw 2 changing inputs and no constant g(y1,y2)=y2/y1 but didn´t realize that the constant is 1 and y1,y2 were the result of a function with 1 variable, g(x)=1*f(2*x)/f(x)) = only 1 input changes rest is constant -> rule of dminishing returns applies at the end f(x) (total damage) has no diminishing returns but g(x) (relative total damage increase) has
Okay, you lost me but I think we can agree. I can't call the change in an additive damage stat diminished returns because it's technically just a 'relative' decrease. I can refer to damage holistically as diminishing returns because the output is a function (of time), with greater than the relative decrease in returns. We cool?
If you're skillful, you can make them work but you're living on the edge. Most importantly, as I showed, regardless of your skill level, even one blue is better.
this game has been a complete shit show from D-1! the beginning of d-1......we are just so deprived as a gaming community from the appearance of games in general is why anyone even cares!
Some of us *are* mathematicians and we understand that your comment is dubiously phrased, apart from that, you lack a coherent point, I don't know why you are explaining nothing. S
![What Build Should You Play in Settlers League Fresh Start? [PoE 3.25]](/img/1.gif)
My third eye opened with the fishermen analogy.
I'm glad. I nearly deleted that part.
This is an amazing way to say "throw in a blue"
I was running nearly the same build but have switched over to a striker with capacitor build. Hits about the same but more skills and armor. Really enjoyed the video.
This is what I’m running now too. Picaro and another of the same. Ninja bike and everything red with striker chest. With technician to get three yellows. 157k damage on the capacitor at 1.2 mill armor.
Awesome vid! I love this video and I love you for taking the time to make it. This was a no-brainer to tweet this one out...fog dude coming with the facts! 🧠💯
I've been telling people that about measure for years now. I always have to explain to them how it works and why it's effective. They seem to get stuck on the near side of the numbers, they see that negative 20 or 30 and just move on to the next talent. I've always felt like it was one of the strongest towns in the game at least with my builds. I've never been one for running around with a revive hive, nor without armor cores and goin all red. It made survivability on heroic and legendary a massive headache. And since the new gear pieces have been added, people are finally opening up to hybrid builds more and more. That ninja bike backpack is a beast, it should have made it into the game at year two.(@ least div2 has it now)
I still see people setting up builds with the pestilence LMG, putting on a vile mask too, all as if pestilence is the status effect. It is not.(would be cool if it was tho)
Anyway I can talk Division for days... If you're out there making build videos I highly recommend you watch this video and watch it more than once, cuz we are all sick and tired of the stupid clickbait titles declaring this build and this gun blah blah blah now the best. It's running around words multiplicative additive and not even knowing what they mean in full.(not to mention how they applied in this format) This is why I don't go around making build videos... First of all there's already plenty. You could be as good as Fog here, and put out the best build videos known to division universe... There ALWAYS going to be someone out there who finds issue with what you're saying, how you're saying it, and even how/why ur goin bout doing it.
Don't get me wrong I don't hate build videos. I very much appreciate good ones w/solid grip on facts to support what they're saying.
(Fog did that here in spades! ♠️'s, KUDOS!! ⭕)
Great to see Eric Bana is a good Div 2 player. Producing informative videos to boot.
Love it!
Cheers mate
This is why you are the best Div 2 content creator. Much needed and appreciated.
Awesome analysis, definitely an eye opener. I was one of the commenters on a previous vid who fumed that the M4 was so low on the best AR list 😂. But I’ll try some new all red builds adding a blue core, because as you said ‘Survivability adds to your damage’. Good stuff!
Honey, wake up the kids, a new Fog of War video just dropped.
Funniest comment of the day 😂😂
“ wake the kids up”
Tell me you’re a loser without telling me you’re a loser 😂
I am now running my PvE striker build with 2B 4R with gunner and the new palisade one piece for a total of 20% armor on kill. Good balance of damage and survivability for me
13 years ago World of Warcraft was my first MMO. I started as a DPS class (rogue, pretty squishy).
And when i was in my first dungeon, a friend of mine, who introduced me to this game, told me one thing that i keep in mind till this day, he said:
"Don't fking die here Johny, dead DPS can't inflict any damage at all."
I like raw damage, big numbers and sh!t, but lesson learned, and i never forget about survivability.
1-2 blue cores is my go to for almost every DPS build, and here you prove my feelings with some math.
Thanks for the video! Great channel, definitely a sub!👍
Great video as always sir.. Don't listen to others.. I absolutely love the math and presentation in your videos.. You actually do practical testing and take a practical approach to things which some ppl fail to realize!
exactly my point
after watching one of Dod-Regnbue video, where he says "if you run not 6 red hunters fury build - you doing it wrong", I wanted to tell him about diminishing return and TTK, and that single (better 2) blue core make HF much stronger (especially if adding palisade and 30% armor on kill to the equation) but I too lazy.
And I can't change "6 red or noob" mentality anyways :D Thank god I'm not the only one, now I can just link to this video
Thank you Sir
- very informative video
- I rarely comment on videos, but your methodical approach motivated me to change some of my load outs
- also, it seems that many players are comfortable with around 1.1 mil armour (2 Blue cores)… can’t wait to see what actual math shows
I did a video a little while ago "The Choice is Yours" that explains some of the reason for that number of blue cores.
This kept me from grinding like so many have done. Thx man.
I play mainly Countdown for crafting materials/exotics. Been running Striker/Sacrifice/Coyote/Elmo and it works pretty well just have to be mindful due to low survivability. However watched FOW other video on running 3 piece Striker/Ninja bp/Picarios/Brazos chest and I've really enjoyed it. That extra 50% mag really makes up for any lost dmg plus with a 6 core shield I can stand up to enemies so much easier.
Things change once you get off challenging countdown. Losing striker backpack or chest are huge losses when enemies have 32 million total hp
Yes doing damage is only 1 dimension of a multivariate space.
Simple models make simple predictions.
Great as always. Actually helped crystallize a build/philosophy I've been contemplating.
You are my new follow. TY! Math background and I was SURE there had to be intricacies of the algorithm worth learning! 👍
Oh, it's way more complicated than this. You're going to love it.
I agree with TTK being the final output. Its how i gauge "value" of damage that i trade for something else. Its why I really like Ninjabike + 1pc Hotshot and 1pc Belstone on some of my builds. Im okay trading Vigilance plus crit for the utility of handling and heals. Ive had people say thats like a 31% damage loss but when i ask them to further factor in TTK, it comes out to an average of, on paper, 0.3 to 0.5 second difference (not including the accuracy and sustain benefits so its realistically less then that). Now the 31% difference doesnt seem as big. Personally, its why i play more hybrid builds when solo. I dont need that extra damage nor is that extra damage more valuable to me then better utility. It's also why I like Riot Foam on my builds, it essentially provides 100% accuracy and removes incoming damage.
I have alway like Measured over other talents on some builds. If i can kill stuff in half a mag or under a full mag, it always felt like it had a slightly better TTK.
All red builds, to me, are only really necessary for speed running where every second matters. Group composition also matters. In a group with a healer or CC that mitigate/remove incoming damage to Red player, then the benefits of an armor core are not needed, so in those groups, an all red setup would be preferred and why most people ask for/recommend it.
These "ideal" groups are not always possible though with random matchmaking and so when i do random group, i always bring in a more hybrid build.
So in the end, a build really depends on a lot of factors beyond just spreadsheet numbers.
I agree with everything. I personally prefer the Memento over NBB but your addition of Hotshot+Bellstone is one of the best uses. I add Weapon Handling attributes to Memento builds instead of an NBB setup, I think there's better returns from higher regen, bonus armour and skill efficiency.
As for Group play, definitely. You can go full retard on damage, as long as someone else in the team is making up for your weaknesses (Status or Heals). You can specialise in groups; in solo, you have to be more of a generalist.
@@fogowar2022 The stat value from Memento is really good. I prefer Memento for some builds and NBB for some other builds. Depends on what I'm going for. But another quality of life thing from NBB I like is having some utility up front without the need to pick up trophies.
When I random matchmake, a lot of the sessions are one mission and then the group disbands. It's annoying to have to reset Memento each time and "recharge" it. If I turn it into an NBB build, I can get some of that value up front and have it all times. But for uninterrupted sessions, Memento for sure out values just about anything else.
@@syngeist The trophy lag is real. If you fast travel to missions, instead of safe houses, you can avoid losing the buff. But for one off missions, in a group, I get the advantage of the NBB up front advantage.
When i went flawlesss on a couple activities such as paradise lost, it came clear to me that you would want to burst down your enemies quicker than they could shoot back at you and destroy your armor. Armor in this game’s pve is rather weak in endgame activities since most enemies do so much damage that armor can barely make a difference and even can say that your damage output is lower at the cost of slightly more survivability causing skill tiers and weapon damage to have much more value.
In incursion and countdown you run 3 protection from elites mods instead of x amount of blue cores. Protection from elites mods are basically free survivability since they only take away low importance crit mods away instead of reds
Did you have a healer for your flawless run? I think you'll find staying off the floor is a significant improvement to damage.
Thanks a lot for the in-depth analysis! That was really enlightening. so there might be a balance between choosing reds, blues, weapon talents on weapons and gear VS Rounds on Target talents (brace, stabilize, near sighted). I'm looking forward to what you find out in the future!!
Excellent video! I really hope more people watch this. I’m sick and tired of narrow minded persons just enjoying the look of all red and pressuring persons to develop the same striker build. This makes content harder on the overall player base because persons are not diversifying builds to give a 4 man team meaningful benefits/buffs.
gg. i rarely end up in an all red build. Unless im doing content where other agents push back on builds.
Yet from intuition and experience i end up in similar place, which would include some resistance to damage.
well done
why i'm running a 5 blue striker, memento and 1 red AR dmg with elmo build for literally everything in the game.
Was so interested in this video, you got a sub from me. Awesome vid, looking forward to watching more of your content!
Thanks for joining. You don't have to wait, there's a year of content to catch up on. :)
@fogowar2022 Honestly can't believe you're at the amount of subs you're at. Definitely deserve much more. Your content is unlike any other creator I've watched for Division.
I learned this 1st hand the other night, i have an all red hitting 585k on KB and crits in the 800k, i have a 3r4b1y that hits around 130k and crits around 280s. Without a doubt the 3r4b1y is the superior choice for me.
6r build has momento so gains about 70k bonus armour near enemies per enemy, While my 3r4b1y has 440k AoK and 17k regen. I can stand in the center of a group and asborb all damage while killing due to the AoK, with the all reds i stand in middle of a group and i kill maybe 2 guys before i am dead or 1 guy before i am scrambing for cover to waste time using an armor kit.
Over the years, I've followed various builds meant to "melt" enemies. At Level 3600+, I have sufficient resources to replicate any fully optimized build identically. Did I "melt" enemies? Technically, yes, but it took time.
Your approach to focus on TTK instead of DPS - and using tweaks to influence TIME - is a significant mind-shift. I can understand why you get haters and naye-sayers.
The "all-red core gold gear" and "Focus only on DPS" approaches were revelations that worked in the game's early days and were essential in Raids. However, as older players left the game and newer players continued their advice, we benefited from developer changes and advances that gave us opportunities for new thinking.
I've had limited success with Striker. And have not been a fan of Measured. But after trying your build and joining in on random players on Heroic running multiple Directives, WOW.
More than WOW. I grinned with glee. Evil glee. Unashamed glee!
Scenario after scenario, I melted enemies. And melted. And I felt powerful. And I went down a few times (due to the Directives and my mistakes - I'm not perfect). But I don't recall every having this degree of sinister satisfaction in the last 2+ years playing Division 2.
The irony of the TTK approach is that "TTK" is in the White House basement range, on the far end. We use the range a lot but we gloss over its holographic letters.
My "traditional" all-red Raid build has 56% Critical Hit Chance and 231.9% Critical Hit Damage. Many jaws drop at my stats. But I still struggle. At the White House's range, using an AKM with Strained, Vigilance, and Glass Cannon on my gear, my TTK time to take out all the enemy planks on the far end is a bit over 15 seconds.
But your build using a GR9 (Damage to Armor and Measured) took 10.2 seconds, compared to 17 seconds with a FAMAS using the same talent. For the St. Elmo, it took 15.2 seconds.
So, did it outperform my Raid build?
Until now, many have touted Glass Cannon's talent as a "must-have" for Raids. Your build proves an all-red gold-gear approach is no longer necessary. I can now dish out very satisfying levels of damage with significantly less risk. Again, I can't stop grinning as enemies fall, one after the other.
I was also pleasantly surprised with the GR9. With a 200-round capacity, there's plenty of ammo to enjoy the effects of Measured on top of the Striker's Battlegear's +15% rate of fire. It took a bit of time but it handled Rogue Agents quite well for me.
And the FAMAS was incredibly enjoyable for short-range situations using Measured.
Fog, thank you. Just looking at things differently really opens up the game in amazing, rewarding, and enjoyable ways! (And me too - loved the fishermen analogy!)
Give Steady Handed a try on your GR9. Just a suggestion.
@@fogowar2022 Haha, I've switched FROM Steady Handed! Are you suggesting Steady Handed mainly to cut down on reload time? Would that improve significantly over Measured in the long run?
@@ako3180 Depends on the content level and build. At Legendary, the lack of reload and the additional accuracy, over the longer engagement distances, will definitely add to your damage output. It's hard to feel it, because your programmed to focus on threat but think about how much damage you'd do during the period you would have been reloading, averaged over firing time, that's a significant improvement and that's on top of the accuracy benefits. At Heroic level, myeh.
As usual, Fog, interesting and enlightening stuff. Thank you for all of your hard work.
Always all red run n gun from the get, problem is most don't want to take the time to learn the surrounding awareness, proper placement and movement skills it requires to stay alive being squishy. I like the fact that a mistake can get you wrecked or killed, its the only thing keeping the game with any sense of accomplishment. No shields either, running around wrecking everything in some "god mode" or a shield to bail you out of a mistake would render the game worthless to me.
It's hard to provide advice for the masses, when individual skill plays such a huge part of the game. All red builds teach you excellent damage mitigation tactics.
@@fogowar2022 You did a great job in the vid brother. Your right, the skill it takes to play through a scope and one shot is way beyond me, but they are nice in a group bring up the rear for sure.
The flaw of the whole theory is, in div2 pve, mobs have really bad 'reaction time', they also get mini-stunned by your bullets, you can also shoot them when they are aiming at your teammates. The TTD/TTK calculations are only correct when you face tanking, but that's not how a squishy dps build work. You need enough armor to prevent sudden death when screw up, and some kind of armor regen to keep going, thats all.
If you never take damage, sure, you've got nothing better to invest in. Congrats, you've beat the game. You missed the point how blue cores aren't about 'not dying'
Check out this build fog: Strikers and coyote with palisade chest w/ obliterate. Gunner. Everything rolled WH and red except 1 blue core. Make sure crit chance is 35% for AR of your choice (ranger, preservation, any talent) and ~55-60% for Oroborous. Everything within 20m is Oreo and rest is beamed with AR. 20% AOK and 1 skill tier shield.
Everything rolled WH is quite an investment. Diminished returns applies to WH too. I'd probably run Preservation but with AoK, that's a lot of reliance on making kills. All said though, I can see it working. The OB would feel like a laser beam and there's now the instant armour kit to get you out of super sticky situations.
@@fogowar2022 I was using it for heroic 3 directives manhunt and being able to keep enemies at a distance but still have massive damage (less drop off, more rounds on target) made things a lot easier. I was able to kill things from 80-90 meters away with a ranger AK lol. The Oreo really doesn't lose all that much in terms of TTK.
You are technically correct... witch is the BEST kind of correct!
People dont realzie how they are trying tl apply things they hear abojt damages to a dummy as real encounter equals. Its same reason unless ur using chest and back and have constant max stats HB is bettter then striker. As well as things like landing ur shots because no stat is going to make up missing shots. Meanwhile the best two things most people dont realize about striker is the RoF and handling are the best things about the set. Ill always take some armor and faster ability to aquire and stay on target over pure dps. Also alot of builds are based on hownit performa with memento and alot of these builds fall apart when u cant use its benefits like anytime ur in a group. It's like hit chance when its not actually a stat
The two-way firing range of real game play adds a lot of complication.
This is exactly what I've gathered from your previous videos! If you put 15+ lvl of expertise on a weapon, on an all red build (especially Strikers), then put a blue core back on. You will never notice that extra 15% stacked on top of the 100s of bonus weapon damage that gearset gives you. If you stack 25 lvls on your weapon, put two blue cores back on. That shield and the AoK will actually feel like something then. Cheers Fog!
On the flip side, the same diminished returns curve is also applied to blue cores, even though they're "value" based vs "percent" based. Which is why I find little value in running an all blue Foundry Bulwark/Armor Regen build. Yes you can face tank the boss at the end of DUA Legendary, but good luck ever getting him down by yourself. Going with my previous comment (and your videos main assertion), adding anything to a pool of zero will instantly give the biggest ROI. ...one of my grounding philosophies when looking at a build is, "fix the broke stuff (lowest/worst values) first."
...I should realllllly finish watching before posting comments. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 ....I would counter your "time to die" vs not real diminishing returns on blue cores with the caveat it still is... It doesn't matter what units you use, whether armor, HP or seconds... you're still adding small increments to an ever increasing denominator (pool). If you stretch those added cores out exponentially eventually you will see very very little gain in overall TTD. There does need to be something mentioned about balancing TTK and TTD or the number of enemies targeting you will eventually overpower your builds ability to compensate. AoK only works if you get the 'K', and only keeps up if it you get more 'Ks' than incoming 'D'. As for the bonus to the shield, that cannot be overstated - very meaningful gains in this specific scenario (adding blues 1-3, adding blues 4-6 could still need investigation).
This is absolutely all your fault. You made a 40 minute video. I can't watch anything Division related for that long without turning into that Leonardo DiCaprio meme where he pops off the couch and points at the screen, and I have to immediately post a comment. Cheers!
SOB- We enjoyed taking this journey with you through the video in the comments section just the same. 😂
@@grumpyoldman6503 😁
🤯 Wow amazing info and breakdown Fog!!!
Nice!!!
respect for this content!
Brilliant as usual
Another brilliant video Fog. Could I just check one thing, please?
When we put on a blue core, do we actually get 187k armour? (170k plus the 10% from our watch).
Holy sh*t dude, can't believe I've never noticed that. The watch stat is a 10% unique, TOTAL armour increase. So technically, we're still getting 170K. (660K base + 170K) * 110% = 913K. But you're right, the equivalent of 187K for every armour core added.
That's going in the next video. Cheers Gary.
Awesome video! Could you give us the exact build with all the talents and attributes?
I start making the highest damage build in my "Build the Meta" video and it finishes with "The Winner is.." video. I'm now working my way backwards and replacing damage components, so I'm not finished yet.
Half the fun is grinding it out yourself. But I do find myself taking screenshots, camera grabs of builds as a reference for something to try later. Div Life.
So many great things about this video….
1) I’m totally one of those that bought the hype about measured not being good. I’ve now been proven wrong. Thank you!
2) math works…. All the time! Math has 100% up time…. It’s also why I really like your videos, proven by a preponderance of the evidence. I’ve said it before: you go beyond what the numbers and stats show. Thank you!
3) your point about just one blue core is well received, I’ve always thought that the chest gear should have an armor core…. Just for the realizlsm. I also think that’s why Momento became the number on backpack…. Yeah it has a lot going for it, but I don’t think “ability to damage enemies longer” is on most people’s list (shout out to the ninja bike too) so thank you for highlighting yet another reason Momento is king!
4) lastly, and I think this gets to your “bullets on target” idea - I remember in one of your first videos you gave your viewers a homework assignment: to check what adding weapon handling does to damage output. I haven’t competed that assignment yet but I think sprinkling in some would help improve overall TRK with more rounds on target.
Thanks again for your dedication to this game and all your analysis. Helps me see the game from a different perspective. 🤜🤛
Fantastic, love it love it love it, dropping them facts! 💪🏼🧠💯👌🏼...🎮🎯👍🏻!
Thanks very much Mouse. Glad you got something out of it.
Oh it's a solid reference point now. 💪🏻🎮🧡
My wife has been screaming at people since 2006 in our first WoW raid that “dead dps don’t do damage” and everyone treats her like she’s insane for not wanting to top every damage meter.
As a math major, I think she’s going to enjoy this takedown in ways I will never be able to appreciate. Thanks!
I love that your wife screams at video games.
very smart vid ! thx mate ;)
I quite often outperform all red striker build as shown with regen ladydeath or heartbreaker 3blue with backpack simply because I am able to not sit in a cover all the time and outsurvive. Healer in a party makes striker super strong though
Team play allows for specialisation.
Well I'm not too hot on the math. But what i can see is my dmg significantly went up by just doing one part with an armor core GGs
The fact that you have to explain diminishing returns to people is crazy lmao
Common knowledge is an overused term. Even if you are aware and understand the concept, seeing the actual figures I think is a real eye opener.
Also I would like to request a Picaro's holster check. I feel this one piece of gear is a powerhouse of damage even without the extra red core. Just a suggestion. Thanks
That holster is the legendary mementos i love it like the chill out mask. But seriously what legendary beats picaros. Only thing that worth while is dodgecity or waveform
Thanks for the suggestion. On this build, it has to be weighed against losing Coyote's or losing 10%CC in Ceska. I will look into it.
@@fogowar2022 I play this with the ninja bike backpack. Its basically a one piece everything build lol love that backpack. Also brought the rifle back to my setup. Feels good. Pin point damage. Also in- sync on the rifle and spotter on the chest. As a technician for the laser and skill tier 👌
@@the-divinehammer I get carpel tunnel using rifles. Build sounds interesting though.
So swap Coyote's for Catharsis and call it good enough.
I use the same build with picarios holser, so I won. =p
However, I very often play with much less effective builds, just because of the most important factor in the game.. the fun.
I enjoy mixing it up too.
I have been testing a build that is comprised of the memento backpack/ninja biker messenger backpack; the Picaro’s Holster; Uzina Getica mask and kneepads; Walker, Harris and Co. body armor and Contractor's Gloves = 3 red and 4 blue cores. Let me know if such a build is a good idea. It has done wonders for me on many occasions.
Is it a Memento or a Ninja build?
@@fogowar2022 Ninja build.
Love your content for division 2! Just out of curiosity, what crit chance do you aim for with your coyotes striker ceska build?
52/173 . I have a few videos on Coyote's setups. Basic rule, as close to 50% CC as the build allows.
Funny you reply now. I'm currently binge watching your videos. I did watch the two follow up videos already. Answered all my questions and then some. Excellent work FoW!
Hi Fog, could you do an analysis for Exotic ARs with DTOOC and LMGs with ROF, just to see if such 3rd attribute changes, besides some base stats changing, make some Exotic ARs/LMGs shine? 🤔
I've been thinking about doing this for a while. Thanks for reminding me to get back to work on it.
Yeah that would be rad.. 😶🌫️
The math bears things out but so much of this analysis relies on one’s playstyle and ability to mitigate damage/shoot straight.
I’ve always told people that if you need additional damage mitigation , run those and if you don’t then don’t.
For example - I used to run glass all red but now I use obliterate simply because I am always targeted preferentially by enemy grenades and die a lot due to being “one shot” by them.
It's not just about damage mitigation. The biggest point is, when you don't have to mitigate damage, you are doing damage, which results in more damage. This is one of the biggest mistakes when it comes to damage, confusing more blues as being "not dying", when it's more about more time doing damage.
@@fogowar2022 Agreed. Good to see you back Fog. It’s been a minute.
@@radiologicphysicist1083 Taking a break.
Can we get a PVP breakdown if you haven't done one yet, please?
I might look at it in some capacity but there is a lot of variables in PVP. Your enemy can vary wildly from moment to moment.
@@fogowar2022 appreciate it. Great channel you have here, keep up the good work.
Fog I’ve been curious about this concept but applied to the secondary attribute status effects. Example Ongoing Dir + Vile build. Is there an optimal amount of +10 status effects secondary to have until you see a diminishing return on duration of said SE, at which point it may be more beneficial to use crit etc instead
Majority if stats receive diminished returns, including SE. The good part about SE is you can see the difference in the skill stat sheet. The meaningful part of a SE is: are the enemies all dead before it wears off? As soon as as the answer is yes, anything more has zero return.
At some point, of bridging the gap between SE duration and TTK, you will likely get more benefit reducing the TTK, rather than extending a SE duration.
With a vial to pump that one up you need to start putting explosive attributes on for it to smack harder because it's based on the concussion grenade in particular. Did a year or so ago it was pretty fun.(Fire & Bleed, cra cra)
So Wat exactly is the build
So you’re saying 3 red 3 blue with a shield and rail splitter is most logical?
Not saying it is most logical but it would definitely work. The Railsplitter got a buff to mag size. Give it a go.
Thanks for this video.
I’ve been playing with Striker- watching my ttk- I added 1 yellow & menmento.
I don’t think armor matters that much. But I will give it a try
Memento effects regen and bonus armour. Blue cores improve that effect, with increased returns for every core added.
You should 100% run blues with memento. 10% extra bonus armor per blue core jumps to insane armor values, even in legendary.
@@AKThompson I have preservation on my gun- The only reason I don’t run blue cores is because 1 blue core is what? 1 or 2 bullet difference. That’s why I use yellow. I have 4red 3yellow 1blue striker build
@Ipleadthefifth. I don't think you understand though. Memento is the *strongest* application in the game for blue cores if you've ever read it's talent you would know why. Not only bonus armor and armor regen are more valuable in general with more armor. The talent itselfs bonus armor is improved by entire 10% increments.
I've soloed tidal basin with no skips on legendary on xbox(and every other legendary) and I can tell you for a fact having a stronger decoy is not nearly as good as grabbing 50% bonus armor per trophy pickup. Alongside the built in tankiness of course.
The yellows will provide shield strength, that will provide the duration of damage. This will be buffed further by the skill efficiency of Memento. The efficiency will help with cooldown times on the shield (which blues and shield tiers do not), which is good because you're relying on it for survivability. And Preservation is one of the best weapon talents (it would get buffed with extra blues though). I like your build concept. But you might find it a little harder in TU20. The enemy AI seems to have been kicked up a notch and I think they are much better at flanking now. If they get beside or behind the shield, you might get in trouble without the blues. If you're running a Striker Drone, you might be able to mitigate this but definitely give some blues a chance and see which works better for you.
Armor and armor regen is by far a necessary trait in this game. I can not express that more. People that think their damage is the only thing that determines a good run on content is foolish. And if you have been playing this game for a while and still think this way, your stubborn. 😂 you carrying a revive hive is diminishing. Your teammates can revive you. All red makes you paper thin. Which adds to the difficulty of the mission. Try some solo legendary, even if you don't complete it. You will see what kind of build you have. Can say more but no one listens 😔 good video as usual fog.
Oh boy another dissertation XD I will listen to it all, just I see that length and know I'm in a for a ride :)
Also who were these people saying 6R was meta? I have personally been screaming from the rooftops for some time now about AWFUL 6R feels, and that Armor in general overperforms - conclusions I came to myself rather quickly on my own, but then your videos (and hanging around RG's channel) reaffirmed
That being said, I have a rather janky theory build I want to test with Ninjabike, 2-3 pieces of Hunter's Fury and whatever other sets will net the most max health with all of it rolled to get Skill Tier 6 and as much skill haste & duration as possible & using the Capacitor as my primary - effectively a "Skill Tank" that relies on constantly refreshing a massive health pool and the Defender Drone to cut incoming damage.
Interesting build idea. Never fallen in love with HF myself. Deliberately closing distance with multiple enemies, to be within 15m, has always put me off.
A 6S foundry bulwark with capacitor is one of my favourite skill builds.
@@BitLyrist running Deflector shield or Crusader ? Sounds awesome either way.
I'm just looking at what the max possible HP is now with capped SHD bonuses, and it seems to be in the neighborhood of 900k and that's if you only run 2p Hunters, ignoring the set bonus for the whopping 90% Ceska gives. But I think it's better to have 1 Guilla Guard over Aegis because you're trading 10% HP for 5% total armor & an additional stat, which will be vital since the build I have in mind is actually going to want to roll Health (weird I know) and then skill haste wherever possible.
The real sticking point is Firewall vs Technician; 30% (80 total) Health on Kill vs a free skill tier.
@@Malacite I’ve never really used deflector - I get fatigued with semi auto weapons
@@Malaciteturret and drone typically (on the skill foundry hybrid).
So what happens when you have 6 reds a blue and a yellow? I have 5 reds but I run a ninja bike which has red, blue and yellow.
I should get to this in a few videos.
Great work. Survivability beats raw damage.
Would you ever release your damage spreadsheet? After watching your channel I don't really trust any other spreadsheets, calculators and build makers that tell you your burst damage up front. Now I'm wondering, how can I use a spreadsheet to figure out if I can fit another blue core without losing much TTK?
D15P4tch has a pretty good one he calls "The BLAKE". Look his channel up and you'll find a link. I have been thinking of doing a tutorial on how to construct your own, for a while now, but never got around to it
How can that build @ 00.47 be the most damaging build, when the chameleon does more damage than st elmos?
I agree with most the other stuff, more than 4 red cores is worthless, i actually only run 3, 4 if im in a group with a dedicated healer. As MMO players say "you cant do damage if your dead!!"
When you factor in Legendary engagement distances, the StE beats the Chameleon. You can watch the other video to see the full story.
@@fogowar2022 that comment was before I realized you're basing damage off TTK rather than DPS, at which point you'd be correct especially since the NPCs run around like they ain't been shot 147 times lol
The NPC running, and taking cover, seem worse in TU20.
@@fogowar2022 1000% agree. Gonna be honest, I wish we had D1 'Predators Mark'
Thats why there a healer role
TLDW 1 blue increases survivability with a very small reduction of time to kill. But you already knew that i hope.
Most apparently did not. There was a few other things but you get the gist.
@@fogowar2022 there was 🤣 you obviously had something to prove to some people. Comment was more for a friend who shared this video to me when he's the one going through a build crisis right now 🤣
@@b3ardedragon921 Most people have realised through trial and error and a basic understanding. It's the "proving" that is the hard part.
@@fogowar2022as someone with a degree in math, yes... Proving what we already "know", from evidentiary experience, is indeed the hard part 😂
So i can rock all blue build with spotter/flatline/vigilance and be strong as all red build?
There are tipping points for most effective but I prove the concept you're talking about in my "Bubble Build" video.
Try it 😂
No, with that logic you can put 2 blues, then 3... and you will finish with tank(God) build, Your damage will be really low, but you will never die and in sum you'll cause more damage vs reds. So let me call this BS
Call it whatever you like but you have completely misunderstood the concept. There is a tipping point before you reach tank status. As you take damage cores away, the % taken gets greater. As you add more skill tiers to the shield, shield health improves less. The 6th red core adds little, the 1st blue core adds a lot and that lot added, is more than the little lost. All this video says is that the tipping point for benefit is at least 1 x blue core.
@@fogowar2022 Sure I understand what are you trying to explain but anyway you've less dps with one blue VS all reds and if someone wants to get the most effective dps, all reds if the way to go
I don't think you did understand. 1 blue, provides more DPS. Not what comes out of the weapon in the firing range. DPS in game.
@@fogowar2022 I'm arguing with you because I understand very well. Firing rage or gameplay... 1 blue DO NOT provides more dps. DPS is about damage per second, one blue never can provide more DPS. what are you talking about man, think about that. go and fu**ing test it
@@morganmadagon One last time, I will try to help you. You believe DPS to be what happens in the firing range and even then, you're still mistaken. Put on a sniper build, go to the firing range, kill a red target. Then replace a red with a blue, kill the target. DPS doesn't change, it's still one bullet. Your red core did not change DPS. Work out how many blues you can add before your DPS actually goes down. Now, strip your build of CHD and CC. Then realise, all those red cores and red attributes didn't make your DPS go up. Zero DPS change. In that situation, which is more than half of the entire game at Heroic Solo, a blue core or literally any other stat choice available in the game, would have been better than the choices you had previously made. This video is an extension of that principle. Damage per second is not what comes out of your weapon; it is a measure of how much damage lands on a target. Your understanding of DPS has no correlation to actual DPS. The one simple example proves that and that is in the firing range, which is still only a small piece of the puzzle.
I really hope that helps.
On an elmo and all red striker would having rate if fire be better than dtoc?
You've already got 15% RoF from Strikers, so any benefit of the Rof is diminished and it's only half the % you're getting from DTOC, which is likely unique to the build. On another build, RoF might win out, especially when you consider how much the AI likes to take cover since TU20, but on a Strikers, with no Fox's, DTOC for the win.
@fogowar2022 I'm running all red with Coyote and ceska chest with obliterate. I found that the 99% of game Content I can't get max striker chest (200) and I can easily get to 100%. If I swap to one blue core . Coyote ceska/ob 4 striker. Dtoc is still better?
Seems like 7% rof is like a direct 7% damage.
It's only 5% for weapon attributes, unless I missed something with TU20 changes?
@fogowar2022 no you're right was thinking of allegro. Ya I guess dtoc would be better. Also I ran the rack at the range with my all red vs 1 blue. You're 100% right cleared the rack in the same amount of time.
one question...
I am curious, who is drawing al those comic book style illustrations?
Is you ?
There rely good, i like them.
My mate Baz. He's a legend.
@@fogowar2022 I could see, so much talent.
He has a page where i can see more of his art ?
Pretty sure he uses AI to generate them.
@@fogowar2022 well...than this is disappointing ...
Less red cores is more, I can put out pretty solid damage figures with three to five blue cores with either Ninja Backpack or Momento
And as soon as you miss with a single shot, you have completely wiped out any advantage of that last red core or wpn talent.
Assuming you replaced the red core or damage talent with something that either turns the miss into a hit (accuracy) or something that grants you more time to make the hit (duration). Otherwise, a miss is just a miss.
Which is why my eyes were opened to weapon handling. It was like seeing the sun for the first time. AND with the changes to Overlord. Im in accuracy /stability heaven. Not to mention a reload speed of like a second
@@derekofbaltimore accuracy instability are simply underrated by most players in the division
@@derekofbaltimoreoverlord is the low key winner of tu20 2p/3p buffs. Esp if you were building off of fox's already.
@@TheBigBlueMarblethere is a big split in KBM vs controller perception of the value of weapons handling and how it maps into the "best" weapon (on paper).
explains an awful lot of what I see playing. A one blue core strikers build is superior and I've long since abandoned damage talents on weapons but a shield is still a crutch.
It's an excellent crutch.
Survivability is adding more damage. WOW
Sarcasm is the best.
@@fogowar2022especially when it's not. 😮
Wouldn't this make Forge the best 6th piece?
*with a blue core on it
My Chameleon build uses the Forge for this reason. You can with the Chameleon because the weapon makes up for the loss of the Ceska piece.
I just got killed with math.
+1
I see this as heavily biased.
The only time you would need a blue core is standing in front of enemies just like the only demonstration shown. If you would properly position behind the large cover with the shield, you would not take fatal damage with 6 reds so the 1 blue would be completely redundant.
Why don`t you show a side by side comparison killing with the 6 reds compared to 5/1?
I have tried going 5/1 cores before, and the amount of time I left enemies on less than 5% hp was quite infuriating.
Not to mention without striker stacks they didnt die before the stagger ended from the 1st shot.
Here is the unbiased answer to your queries.
1 red core amounts to less than 0.03s. For the average enemy, the one red core is very unlikely to reduce the bullets to kill by even 1 x bullet, so more than likely zero difference, at all. As a very oversimplified example, if you're killing enemies in 10 bullets, you need 10% more damage to make a difference ie. Reducing from 10 to 9 bullets; a 6th red core offers 6.5%. There is more variation from RNG on crits, than there is in the difference in TTK between 6/6 to 5/1. Your attribution of blame is the bias, unless you ran your test 1000s of times. If you were leaving enemies with 5% HP, you never would have killed them anyway. And that's assuming you magically ran out of bullets, when they had 5% left, every single time; otherwise fire 1 more bullet, which takes less than 0.1s regardless of which AR you're holding. That's literally the worst result.
They have now removed the shield peak glitch, so you cannot do damage without exposing yourself to damage. Whether the 1.2 secs shield duration materialises in one go (as shown), or if it is spread out over a whole wave, it is still 1.2 secs worth of extra damage. If you are going behind cover to avoid damage to your shield, you're not doing damage. The one blue core allows you to do that (not do damage) for MINIMUM 1.2secs less, not to mention the vast amount of time over which the higher rate of shield repair amounts to the same thing ie. more damage.
I have shown, NUMEROUS times, the difference of damage between 6/6, 5/1 and I've even taken it to comparing with Glass Cannon and without and it is virtually impossible for a human to tell the difference and that is when they are shown side by side, let alone apart. That's because the difference between the two is less than human reaction time. Whatever you were seeing, is not there.
If you're using Striker, the time difference in TTK is even smaller, not more. As for Stagger, this occurs in half the time of TTK.
Hope that helps.
@@fogowar2022 If you ran 6 cores all the time, and suddenly went 5/1 the difference is huge because you just know enemy will die and they wont. Its the same in reverse. you run 5/1 all the time and notice the times you would still have a shield up but it brakes.
I run 6 cores and I almost never need to take my shield out because I use good cover and not expose myself to multiple enemies, when I start shooting an enemy they die before they can shoot back. Taking out the shield is kind of pointless and stops you from shooting.
You are bias trying to convince people 5/1 will get you more damage in a run. You learned to play with a blue, that is what FEELs good for you, so you are biast. Just as much as I am with 6 reds.
@@AAgun94 By using 6 reds, you ARE doing more damage, no disagreement, but ONLY when you are doing damage. You've just failed to consider all the time that you lost moving or taking cover, instead of doing damage, that you could have been, had you been using a shield. In a true damage/over time perspective, you are doing less DPS. That has always been my point. There are ways of increasing DPS, without increasing your damage stats. The 6 red META has been a situation of its own design. You need high burst DPS, because you can only be out of cover for a short burst. Sustained damage is higher damage than Burst, in most cases the equivalent of greater than 20% amplified damage. The more sustained damage you can do, the higher your damage output. Balancing the trade-off to achieve that is the key and there will be a tipping point but as this video points out, the tipping point is past 5/1 minimum, irrespective of your skill level.
@@fogowar2022 There is no point counting moving and taking cover. You have to do that no matter what build you are running. You either shooting or you dont. Forget about sustained damage. It only comes into play when you are unable to kill a target in a single mag. Witch rarely happens (with 6 red). When enemy dies you have to search for new targets and you can relocate/reload in that time.
@@AAgun94 I'm sorry, I'm going to end this here. This isn't me being rude but genuinely trying to help. Almost everything you've just said, in your last comment, is incorrect. When you understand that, your views might change. Until then, continue doing whatever you like.
I'm not a casual player but I have (for sure) just a casual mind... what hell of screwed up magic happened here?
😵💫
I understood enough to know that I'm (somehow) wrong... but not enough to be able to correct this.
That means, now I'm wrong AND confused.
Wish I've never seen this video...
Damn... I've always hated not being smart
Edit:
"Liked" the video...out of pure desperation
Basic rule: Adding stuff to your build, that your build already has a lot of, is not the best idea.
@@fogowar2022 I see... but, why no yellow core in your strongest build? Wouldn't it follow the same rules?
Just getting started.
Ok on doing this for pve would you be able to do one for pvp
You're not the first to ask but the requests are piling up and I might investigate some of the key principles in a future video.
I have resisted Ryan but I'm going to do it in an upcoming video.
i wonder with backpack that have all core
I'll get to the power of Memento in a future video.
Dead men do no deeps
Now do inflation!
Interesting. Totally wrong, but interesting
I am now crying into the keyboard, as I delete the last year of solid research. Based on your thorough breakdown and expert analysis, there's no other option.
All red is not META. All red but 1🎉🎉
I'm just getting started. This is the first proven change.
It’s a lot more complex for pvp. Striker chest won’t be that great and it’s difficult getting max stacks
It's not a PVP build. But yes, PVP is more complex.
I understood nothing 😂 clearly I don't know what I'm doing
The majority of people don't understand how complicated the game actually is. By the same token, the majority of people do just fine at the game without even caring about the maths.
Haha😂 got to the end and yes. The old advice in this game is drivel. The best builds are the ones tested in the field. Not a cookie cutter build someone told you was supposed to be for you. I never followed people and have been mostly solo the entire 5 years. My clan quit years ago lol 😆 😂 🤣
Love the content - would honestly love it more without the constant "everyone else is stupid" tone to the narration
Fair comment. It's just draining being attacked all the time by people with shallow understanding; that undertone is directed at them. It's gotten less, over time, as I've piled up evidence but the community can be and has been pretty toxic. Apologies that this seeps in, I'll try to be more mindful.
I totally get that - I made the comment about 15 minutes in and considered going back and revising it after watching the whole video. Am very impressed with your approach and even more so with you actually engaging with a comment like this 👍 Have subscribed and am looking forward to the content 😊👍
What is the best talent for damage on a vector sbr 9mm?
Depends on the make-up of your build.
For some reason I end up running Fast Hands on one of mine and I like it.
My personal preference is Preservation.
My vote is for unwavering if it's your secondary, though I'd rather put it on a 45 vector. Talk about rounds on target and increased uptime on firing vs reload
@@blakemorris2753 I need to look at that. Do you have any talents that you never use? Unwavering is one for me but I need to change that.
Try forge instead of ceska
Someone else suggested it. There are other factors to consider but giving up 10%CC and 12% CHD is the big one. I'll run some numbers. Red, blue or yellow Forge?
@@fogowar2022 red forge. yeah you're losing some crit, but a Red core is much more consequential than crit damage, as long as youre getting enough CHC.
There are two culprits here... one, regurgitators of untested claims throughout the community, and two, the very word "percentage" and it's most basic meaning of "out of 100". You can't really blame the word per se, but peoples' natural inclination to compare anything added to builds to that base notion of starting at "100", when they're really adding to a pot of 200, 300, etc.... and we're no longer comparing "of 100", but "of a much bigger notation".
Perhaps the confusion could be resolved a bit easier if at each point of "adding 15%" the value added is shown as a fraction of the whole, 15/115, 15/130,.... 15/525... I should probably finish the video first. ;p
Math is hard. 😢
You show a decrease of the relative increase, nothing wrong about it.
But i really dont get it, why you insist on using the wrong term for this.
There are other things in Div2 that are really affected by diminishing returns, like Increasing Expertise, Optimization, Clutch, Duration of Status Effects
I agree, that it´s nonsense to put all eggs in one basket, if there is another basket. And I agree with most of your conclusions, but that doesnt make your usage of the term correct.
Now to your example
i = ModifierInput
d = total damage
i0 = 0 % , d0 = 1000000
i1 = 15 % , d1 = 1150000
i2 = 30 % , d2 = 1300000
i3 = 45 % , d3 = 1450000
your calculation shows only a diminishing relatve increase with no relation to the input
d1/d0 = 1.15
d2/d0 = 1.3
d3/d0 = 1.45
d2/d1 = 1.13043
d3/d1 = 1.26087
d3/d2 = 1.11538
The People that are correct calculate the 'marginal product' to check if there are Increasing, Constant or Diminishing returns: (Output2-Output1)/(Input2-Input1)
in this case of the total damage, it shows a constant return
(d1 − d0)/(i1 − i0) = 1000000
(d2 − d0)/(i2 − i0) = 1000000
(d3 − d0)/(i3 − i0) = 1000000
(d2 − d1)/(i2 − i1) = 1000000
(d3 − d1)/(i3 − i1) = 1000000
(d3 − d2)/(i3 − i2) = 1000000
Quote From the patch notes:
Added diminishing returns* for all Status Effects based on two categories:
*Diminishing returns means that each subsequent application of the Status Effect of the same category will have a reduced duration until full immunity is reached. Diminishing Returns will not apply in PvE.
they didn´t show numbers so i had to make some up: 6s, 4s, 2s, 0s
i = Number of Applications
d = total duration
i1 = 1 , d1 = 6
i2 = 2 , d2 = 10←
i3 = 3 , d3 = 12
i4 = 4 , d4 = 12
as you can see, the marginal products diminish
(d2 − d1)/(i2 − i1) = 4
(d3 − d1)/(i3 − i1) = 3
(d3 − d2)/(i3 − i2) = 2
(d4 − d1)/(i4 − i1) = 2
(d4 − d2)/(i4 − i2) = 1
(d4 − d3)/(i4 − i3) = 0
I add 15%WD, I get 13% TTK. I add another 15%, I get 10% TTK. I add another 15%, get 8.8% TTK.
This is diminished by a greater margin than just the relative increase in WD. What is the correct term for that?
EDIT: I've tried to understand your point of view on this, I really have. You sound like an intelligent person, which makes it worse that I've wasted so much time thinking about semantics.
Final Attempt: Improvements on TTK, from damage increases, will always approach 0. Damage is not completely gradual, it is quantised, is the form of bullets. With the addition of damage, every system will approach the minimum of 1 bullet. Post that point, any damage input has ZERO return and there are numerous build/weapon configurations where you will have ZERO differential difference before reaching the next quantised jump, well before you even reach the minimum of 1 bullet. To the best of my knowledge, no differential increase (as you describe it) can ever reach 0.
This diminishing in output seems to be the EXACT SAME as the Diminishing Returns status effect example that you provided.
If damage doesn't provide Diminished Returns, we can agree: I have no idea what you're talking about.
@@fogowar2022
The rule of diminishing returns only apply to a function, where only one input is allowed to change and all other inputs are constant
e.g. f(x) = c*(1 + x)
When i looked at the relative increase is saw 2 changing inputs and no constant
g(y1,y2)=y2/y1
but didn´t realize that the constant is 1 and y1,y2 were the result of a function with 1 variable, g(x)=1*f(2*x)/f(x)) = only 1 input changes rest is constant -> rule of dminishing returns applies
at the end f(x) (total damage) has no diminishing returns but g(x) (relative total damage increase) has
c = 1000000
x = 15%
f(x) = c·(1 + x)
f(0) = 1000000
f(x) = 1150000
f(2·x) = 1300000
f(3·x) = 1450000
| f(x) − f(0) |/(x − 0) = 1000000
| f(2·x) − f(x) |/(2·x − x) = 1000000
| f(3·x) − f(2·x) |/(3·x − 2·x) = 1000000
g(x) = 1·f(2·x)/f(x)
g(0) = 1
g(x) = 1.13
g(2·x) = 1.231
g(3·x) = 1.31
| g(x) − g(0) |/(f(x) − f(0)) = 8.696×10-7
| g(2·x) − g(x) |/(f(2·x) − f(x)) = 6.689×10-7
| g(3·x) − g(2·x) |/(f(3·x) − f(2·x)) = 5.305×10-7
Okay, you lost me but I think we can agree. I can't call the change in an additive damage stat diminished returns because it's technically just a 'relative' decrease. I can refer to damage holistically as diminishing returns because the output is a function (of time), with greater than the relative decrease in returns. We cool?
@@fogowar2022 yep we cool.🍺
An all red buid will get you destroyed
If you're skillful, you can make them work but you're living on the edge. Most importantly, as I showed, regardless of your skill level, even one blue is better.
this game has been a complete shit show from D-1! the beginning of d-1......we are just so deprived as a gaming community from the appearance of games in general is why anyone even cares!
The only way is up. Bring on Division 3.
Hey, not all of us are mathematicians and we understand that, apart from that, you talk too much, I don't know why you start explaining everything. S
I like math and explaining stuff.
Ikr if you're really curious just test it in the firing range 🙄
@@fogowar2022please make insightful, thoroughly researched content with novel conclusions; but without actually saying anything about it
Some of us *are* mathematicians and we understand that your comment is dubiously phrased, apart from that, you lack a coherent point, I don't know why you are explaining nothing. S