How To GRIND a 16 Sided POLYGON on a Cylindrical Grinder
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Chris takes O2 Hardened Tool Steel on the Studer S41 and grinds a 12 sided and 16 sided polygon into a cylindrical work piece. He gives insight to the programming of High Speed Form Grinding.
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man... I love Titans. So refreshing seeing a team of pros, clean and beautiful machines and great content! Presentation is always on point. Keep it up guys!
I have been around cnc machines à lot... But machines like this... Simply incredible.
I want one for my desk it looks beautiful. At 7 mins the concentration on the task was obvious and the camera was forgotten. True focus on the task.. Who cares if “i cant spell it” you made it. Lovely with even the out takes, it makes you part of the team. Welcome to the world of the Academy.
wow - what a piece of content - in the youtube world where 90% of vids are from 90` 80` 70` - most machines look old dirty and tired - TITANS always make me happy and willing to be working as a grinder as your approach to the precision grinding is fresh modern and ultra sleek - lovely job guys ! S41 is like a AI of Grinding :)
bro....that chuck is SO FREAKING perfect..... he re chucked that part and it ran out literally PERFECT....wtf!
FANTASTIC video! Keep putting out these great videos!
Awesome Job! I love learning machining like this part.
It was a great video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us for free, Mr. Chris. And don't forget the wonderful staff who filmed and edited this video... You took me to another world man. Boom 💥
Love seeing your comments Mohammed😁🤙🙏
Titan
Proud to be one of your followers boom 💥
@@mohammedalbattal77BoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoomBoom
@@TITANSofCNC Where can you get trained at on a machine like this?
Absolutely amazing. Nice work.
I’m old school, so glad you work in imperial and not metric
Amazing finish.
That’s pretty cool! I don’t know what the hell im looking at, but looks pretty cool and definitely takes a bit of knowledge to run that thing! Good job!
Had to make one of those (Icosikaitetragon 24 sides) recently for a laser scanner. Needed mirror surfaces and I have no grinder. After milling, it was had lapping over the granite with 1500 grit followed by some buffing compound on a sponge. I have serious tool envy watching this.
It would be interesting to determine how flat the Studer polygons are, given that the flats are interpolated, and any reversal error in the X-axis is being tested. In the case of your method, your flatness is assured.
@@aj7utu That's true, and even with grinding I think I'd end up needing to buff out the tool marks. But hand lapping is a terrible way to spend the evening 🙂
Idk what happened, but the video editing became alot better in the past month-ish. And Chris does a great job explaining his process.
Thanks for another great video!! Just a reminder of why I love machining. So much a person can do nowadays with modern machining technology. That part is one of those things if a person asks why did you make that?? Because I can :)
What a great video , use a s31 at work but never seen nothing like that before .
Studer at the best 👍
Great video!
What a great video. I don't have any experience in fabrication but the content you guys put out is highly informative and truly amazing. I'm also wondering if you could make a 2D and a 3D Reuleaux polygon?
you can do almost anything on this grinding machine i am working on an s33 and i once did a m40x5 thread left hand side with 2 beginings. and easy to use.
That is cool, really cool.
Amazing video! I love the format and pace!
Oh my gosh at 3:51 you forgot the "do" in dodecagon. Well done , was surprised at how much the heat treat warped the part.
i used to grind crankshafts with a berco orbital grinder.
When he said I can’t spell it but I can grind it🤙🤙🤙 I always say on the machinist page I’m not good at spelling I’m good at math lol. 😊
That's a nice hexadodecakocadagong
Ok that's impressive
How are you doing Chris!! Glad to see you’re doing well!
Thanks Marcos! Hope all is well with you!
Thank you for the video. I would like to see you finish grind hard anodized aluminum part to size(+/-0.0004) OD and ID concentric and N4 finish. We quoted something like that once but didn't get the job.
Also interested to know about fixturing finished parts where you can't squeeze them in the chuck.
Those are excellent ideas. We will put them on our list.
All great ideas!
What fixture system has the highest positioning precision between workpieces?
You should grind a capto style triangle. I’m not sure if that’s patented or not because sandvik created but I think it would be cool cause it’s such an odd shape.
Chris have used a Gleason Phoenix CNC tooth cutting Mach ?
You ask us what form you should grind next, please grind a Capto Tool Holder so like a tapered 3 sided polygon. That would be nice to see
what happens if you need the dodecagon and hexakaigon whateva to be at a specific angle? since you reverse the part in the chuck, how do you align it again?
Do an actual camshaft. A full camshaft build that will actually be test run in an engine.
haven't u dressed the wheel? (btw u gotta make a factory tour video with the crazy machine park ur running)
Each of these macros had 2 in process dresses that were programmed. You can check out how I did it on our CNC grinding academy!
Technology is getting better and better. Pretty soon don't need to go to school to learn it.. lol 😆
Especially since we are about to release a Free Grinding Academy
👌🏻
TITAN! This video is pretty related to the dilemma I'm in. The ol' Mill vs Lathe debate. I'm a new mechanical engineer coming from A LOT of 3D printing experience who likes to get his hands dirty and build stuff first-hand for gaining expertise in design aspects and just the overall mechanical experience of making things. But I want to start working with metals. Mainly brass and aluminum but occasionally steels. Before I invest in an awesome CNC setup, to learn the old school ways do you recommend starting with a small lathe or mill?
Amateur machinist here, Lathes are good for getting a feel for the concepts behind feeds and speeds, especially if they are manual (not CNC). But a Mill is far more versatile in what it can do. However Lathes are the kings of threading, cylindrical parts and semi cylindrical/ related parts (camshafts, bushings, tapers, etc), Really depends what you want to make. Honestly to get a feel for manufacturing, both are good, both have their limits.
Im from Germany. Worked on old Studer.
I used to learn not to stop the wheel during measuring.
Because the the wheel would suck in the oil and gravity would pull it down so there would be inbalance after...
It's not like that nowadays?
So you would flush the grinding area with actual oil, like way oil?
@@arthurura when part is finished yes
Do you know if the studer s11 is capable of high speed form grinding?
okay, here is a question I have. Because the grinding wheel is cut at an angle, the diameter of its grinding surface is different if you look at different points on the z-axis. the diameter of the grinding wheel that is closer to the chuck has a different surface velocity when it is spinning than the inner diameter. does that have any effect on the surface finish?
Surface speed of the wheel on the 45 degree angle is minimal change between the larger and smaller diameter.
Typically surface speed is measured in metres per second in the world of metric so the difference is minimal, more so that this wheel will likely be in excess of 400mm (16") diameter in use. Respect to the guys who load these wheels in the machine, I picked one up for our Studer S41 and they are definitely not light!
What wheel are you using ? Thanks
Do you heat treat in-house?
Why not make a STAMP this way out of some crazy material and then using it to press a crazy hole in something? Limit is your imagination, and we know you guys have a lot of it! :D BTW, great video, Chris you do a great job focusing on the details. Greets :)
우와아.
Are the finished faces flat or dished?
Sir
Can we do undercut id grinding ?
Does this polygon part have real applications or was it literally for demonstration? Polygon parts like the one showed in this video are particularly used with precision lasers, such as used in laser scanners which are used for various of products like a laser printer.
How to do contention on carbide flat face
I assume it's hexadecagon, deriving from the Greek δεκαεξάγωνο, which is composed of δεκαέξι (=sixteen) and γωνία (=angle), so sixteen-angled. Same way polygon comes from the Greek word πολύγωνο (πολύ = many and γωνία = angle) meaning many-angled
All thanks to Archimedes
Ok, If you are going to attempt polygon grinding on a studer you must remember a few things. firstly look at the part Chris has ground. how flat does it look? its clearly radiused on every edge. You cannot achieve flatness using a angle approach wheel. the machine needs to know the exact wheel diameter to achieve perfect flats so you need you use a straight wheel. You cannot measure a wheel at 30 degrees ie wheel 2 as T1 and T11 are totally different sizes. I do many form grinding jobs in aerospace and the flatness is easily within 0.001mm on these amazing machines
Yes, agree. Also Z oscillation needed, now i can see the radial stone marks on the part.
Is it possible to program cylindrical grinding in mastercam
So select a shape, add dimensions. Super complex lol. How accurate are the indexes in arc seconds?
What abrasive (grind wheel) are you using? This is really cool I only do cylindrical. Are you programing with Studer WIN or just pictogram? When touching off I like to tap to Process so you can really see the dital spike.
I am using a Tyrolit 60 Grit with 70 grit embedded throughout the wheel. I am using Studer HSM cycle. Check out our grinding academy coming soon to learn exactly how I did this!
@@christophervillalpando5865 Thank you. I notice you like that brand abrasives I'll have to check it out. We use Norton, Noritake, and Meister.
@@jeremyl.7563 Yes you should check out the Tyrolit wheels! I have had very good success with them!
Do you know if the Studer s11 is capable of doing high speed form grinding aswell?
Why you dont use Z axis oscilattion ??
What are the advantages to using the pink wheel vs white or others? We have centerless grind, ID/OD Cylindrical Grinders(S33 & FavoritCNC), and 2 die cylindrical thread rolling.
Each color indicates a different abrasive. It depends on the material application.
The material and finish you are going to grind play a major factor in your wheel selection. Thanks for watching!
@@christophervillalpando5865 Why did you choose the pink wheel? What are the advantages of using a pink wheel over white or others? Is the advantage the wear characteristics, or surface finish, ability to use on many types of materials, ect. Thanks for any info.
@@kavanlaing7238 I selected this Tyrolit 60 grit wheel because of the material being ground. this wheel is on the softer side and is used for light to medium stock removal. I also like using a 30 degree angled wheel when I can.
@@christophervillalpando5865 have you seen the trick with the flashlight on the pink wheel?
ruclips.net/user/shortsDpcxH4JXUwI?feature=share
How did you clock C between the two sides to align the two shapes to eachother?
Its not two shapes. The macro where he input he number of sides calculates the angle.
I dont think he timed one side to the other.
How is this more efficiënt then using a flat endmill? Looks cool tho!
Its not about efficiency its about surface finish?
does the machine has a way to measure where it's at currently ? I mean because of the wear of the grinding wheel, you can't really know how deep it's grinding in practice. Or is it just ignored for short runs ?
You can use your offsets to keep the part oversized and measure after the initial grind. Then you can adjust as needed. With this run I had plenty of dresses to keep up with the wear of the grinding wheel. Thanks for watching and great question!
Could you guys grind out a gear? Is that even possible
I'd be interested in seeing profile geometry dressing
Can you do an 11-sided polygon?
"I can't even spell it but I can grind it"
You can always say "12-gon" and "16-gon". As in, "twelve-gon" and "sixteen-gon". Inevitably you'll have to swap to that pronunciation if you were to ever do an uncommon number or a large number of sides.
Grind a cam for a single cylinder engine. Does the wheel always stay at a angle to the part or is that a axis?
The C-axis and X-axis servos have to be synchronized. Right?
@@arthurura At the beginning of the program the machine references its C axis. I went into further detail in our Grinding Academy! Check it out!
How did you make sure the inner and outer sides were paralel with each other?
Good question
could you add taper as well
You could by using this program for studer
How do grinders account for wheel material loss?
I will let Chris come in here and answer this.
I know that in many applications, you actually re-dress the wheel during the process and the machine automatically knows where the new edge is and compensates / offsets in automatically, then continues to grind. You can set the timing on this based on application and hardness of wheel etc.
Titan
Titan nailed it! The wheel is dressed and the machine compensates for wheel wear. You can pick in your technology for the wheel how much to dress and how many passes. In the programming is where you can select how often you dress, for example before the grinding operation, during or even after.
Great question!
is there a dresser calibration cycle for the diamond wheel dresser???
You have to calibrate each spindel and dresser once and give the studer the right parameters of the wheel you put in. After you did that once you can work a long time without calibrating again. I work at a studer s42 and i make such a calibration just once a year or so. The only thing wich changes is the diamond wich over time wears down...
You should grind some Reuleaux triangle wheels.
Hey Greg! I love that Idea! Stay tuned!
@@christophervillalpando5865 It'll be interesting to see how it grinds a triangle of constant width.
@@christophervillalpando5865 C'mon Chris.... where's my Reuleaux!
Haha its on my To-Do list! Stay Tuned! Thanks for watching!
0:25 only right answer 🤣🤣
It's a simple word Δωδεκαγωνο!🤣
Hi everyone,Just wanted to ask: is it possible that face mill (easy roughing nothing crazy) can damage the perpendicularly/precision of the machine? I’m facing this with an old style machinist that wanna hear no excuse and always wants to have the last word on everything.
How can I prove him that he is wrong
Not unless you crash it… machine will stall before it ruins anything. You should join our Facebook Private Group where there is a ton of machinists to ask questions from and to learn from.
Also check out our videos on Tools of Domination and 644 MRR. We didnt hurt our machines AT ALL with these cuts
Thanks for the reply, I mean.. machine are calibrated and tested at maximum performance when they are built right? They are made for working like days and days no stop at 100% power.
Old man machinist thinks that modern machines are like manual mill from the 80s and 90s haha 😂
@@matteomagni2084 i was taught that usually the machine stalls before the tool or anything in the machine breaks.
and even tested that with a 85mm facemill.
the thing is that stalling the machine can damage the gears if you have a gearbox or the drive for the spindle if you do it long enough but besides that and crashing nothing should damage the machine.
and even if the machine has crashed you can run a kinematics check and then the machine should know what's out of the usual and potentially calculate what to do to compensate that.
we have a big mill at work where the tower is tilted by 1.2° or so and i think another axis has around 2° bends in it😂
@@Sebastian-ed5kt Yikes on the last sentence
grinding a motorshaft would be an ez
на таком станке можно злые распредвалы шлифовать...
Now you have the brains, engineering software and all the equipment to manufacture some futuristic firearms components. Elon and Space-X may need to arm up a defense.
It amazing to think they are developing ways to assemble machines that will use to assemble a spaceship for the mission to Mars.
After 12 sides, you can start calling the polygon an n-gon. It makes it much easier to say 😂. So a 16 sided polygon would be a 16-gon
I like that better😁🤙
The right term would be Hexadecagon I think, but yeah, it get's unwieldy at some point
Challenge: Make a Titan-1M without a Mill, Lathe, etc. Only useing special processes like Grinding, EDM, maybe even 3D-Printing...
Maybe even doing a 1m long Titan-1M on the Ibarmia....
Make actual disco ball?
How to set the graphics to low in real life.
Well with CNC you can do just about anything, but i dont like running maskines like that, also a reason i was out of the trade for so many years.
Okay i do admit i can get almost aroused watching some machines work, and also the things for the home industry i could make with such a machine.
But my time on CNC machines are as little as 5 - 10 hours
Why wouldn't you just put the flats on with a reciprocating surface grinder? Cutting them on a cylindrical grinder like this will cause a concaved surface instead of an actual flat.
On this I can program a smaller radius along the sides which would help with that, I made the radius .100 for each of these. And rather than grinding, flipping and grinding again. I just decided to do it all at once. Great question!
It doesn't just plunge in the wheel, it interpolates the X-axis as well so it creates an actual flat surface. Surer, there might be better ways, but this way you could do the polygon grinding and cylindrical grinding (and other stuff like threads etc.) in one setup.
@@christophervillalpando5865 So the C-axis and X-axis servos are synchronized?!
That 3 jaw has zero runout? WTF?
You see the end product . You don't see the whole process.
@@arthurura Yeah im guessing its a type of set-tru? It appeared that he just threw it in there and ive never seen a 3 jaw clamp perfectly concentric before.
Great Question it is an adjustable 3 Jaw chuck.
Ok, next grind an icosahedron and try to pronounce it on the first try