Does Your Studio Need an External WORDCLOCK? Rapid Fire Q&A #11
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2019
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In this video
David talk about external clocks for both home studios, audio interfaces and multiple adda converters setups
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Most people: you're wrong! I bought a black lion clock because Streaky said to, and since I paid that much money, MY ears hear a difference. Screw your science!! I'll trust my favorite RUclipsr... I mean ears.😂
comprehensive and concise video David, thank you for clearing this up!
These videos are pure GOLD
Thank you! Your explanation of jitter really cleared things up for me!
Fire!!!! You're the best man
I was doing tons of research on this, weeks ago and was even considering purchasing a master word clock. I came across the same article, which had given me the info I needed to make a decision and I decided to appreciate the current interface, for my hone setup. Apollo 16 (silverface), for the win, no need for clock! Great video! Peace.
Thanks David, that helped me very much to demystify that wordclock case 👍
As always very interesting and informative
Great explanation. Right to the point. Thank you 👍
I have a Apogee Symphony i/o clocked with an Antelope Audio Pure2/Isochrone 10M combo and I do notice an improvement, I actually did a non scientific test myself where I printed an old song I did one with the Symphony’s internal clock and one with the Pure2/10M combo and the files did not null. Well I totally respect your opinion I just wanted to let everyone know mine. Thx for this great channel and quality videos you put out bro. 😃🙌
Thank David!
Thanks for being real honest man.
Nice content again, awesome!!!
David, share with us your experience about mixing with sub-woofer, better for listening really low frequencies or is indifferent for you? Thanks bro!
Right on time. I just bought a Behringer Ultragain Digital ADA8200 to work with my RME Fireface and I record audio using both, but my RME is the masterclock, I forgot to buy a kabel for the Clock, so I set the clock up over the Toslink cable and I'm trying to find out what Jitter is and how to recognize Jitter, to find out if my setup works without jitter. As always great video.
Thank you very much!
My interface got the jitters just watching this! haha!
Just kidding, great video - it explained this topic very well. Thanks!
I have one external clock although I only have one converter, and I wouldn't say the sound is worse, but a bit different,
Hi, can you please share that Sound on Sound video about wordclock testing? Thanks !!
Je suis à priori d’accord avec vous parce que quand j’essaye les choses sur 1 interface RME fireface 800 et après sur 2 RME fireface 800 je n’entends pas de différence dans le son hors si une horloge externe était justifiée à partir du moment qu’on utilise plusieurs convertisseurs, on entendrait la différence!
This kind of clocks do nothing for helping sync midi clock timing issues, correct?
Rapid fire flow cuh.
Which clock did you use?
Show how you clocking your interfaces
Very useful.
A shame a single interface doesn't benefit from a superior external clock. But on the bright side, I get to add another interface/dedicated mic pre's.
Well done for staying away from BS
Respect
dear David! I'm just curious if I need to connect my 2 ADAT converters with BNC cables to my MOTU 8M card or not? Is it going to work better (and more stable) than only via optical cables? Because I may have heard some wierd trembling in sound via ADAT B...My Universal Audio 4710d is my master clock (ADAT A) and Audient ASP880 is ADAT B. I mainly record drums...Which one of these would you use as a master clock? Thank you in advance!
And thanks for your expertise man! :)
Yes you should connect with BNC and use the MOTU as master clock
Great video. As far as i understand, if i'am going to connect external ADAT interface to my MOTU interface, then i don't need a wordclock? For example, if i connect ADA8200 via ADAT to record my synths - there is no multiple AD/DA convertions in between.
@@mixbustv oh, thanks for the clarification! I'am sure my experience will be the same ;) And i hope so, as my MOTU Ultralight mk4 does not have external wordclock connectors at all :)
Question for MixbusTV, if you slave one UA to another UA via TB, would an external wordclock make a difference there? Or not really unless I got another converter (from a different brand?)
Endless dabate. A clock is advised when you have multiple interfaces, your case. If you believe UA, they claim the best clock in the universe. If I had that setup, I'd get a clock. (Like I did with my multi-interface system which imho has a better clock that UA, so there's that)
How is it with an external neve ad converter into an apollo? Should the neve take over the clock?
I'm not familiar with either units's clock, I would want to say probably the Neve should be the master but you need to make sure it has a better clock (I'm not a fan of it as a converter) and some interfaces work better with an internal clock. Now if you had multiple interfaces, then it would have been different
Great video! Rapid Fire Q&A #12: Virtual Microphone Systems!!
external clocking blah blah only buy for utility as stated if you have multiple interfaces and you're in a situation where you are daisy chaining signal you want to avoid that and get an external word clock to generate the recovered clock from the main device (hopefully your monitoring or primary interface). even with midi devices they tend to always perform best when they are clocked internally or set as master. for instance LFOs tend to have higher resolution. shorter signal path with less signal distributed and kept at short lengths will always be #1
Hi - I’m currently using BNC, however have a couple of interfaces that have no word clock in/out. Do you know if the system driven, usb based clocking controller (which references the same master clock, in this case an AD+) will achieve a comparable result to the hard wired bnc approach? Many thanks.
You should use BNC for sure
@@mixbustv many thanks for the reply. Would there be any benefit in clocking my monitoring to the AD+? I’m assuming as it’s a separate DA conversion, it’s not necessary? (Monitoring DAC being fed AES from the AD+ - had no bnc jacks)
I give you an example:
When you need to record 6 musicians and you set up 24 mic's for Drums and singers, 2 guitars live in DI togoether with 2 SM57 per tube amp, 2 Keyboards, 1 Drumbox, 2 microphones for the natural Room Reverb and bla bla bla ....
yessss that makes sense if for all this stuff you need:
3 Antelopes, 1 Apogee, 1 RME, 1 Focusrite etc...
But if you record let's say 16 or 8 channels with the same gear at a time that does the AD/DA conversion, then there is absolutely no need to add another hardware for act as a Master Clock.
That is when you record, but when you Mix, Captain Obvious tells you he does not give a cake for that.
Even better: Masterclocks for Mastering purposes: total BS !!!!
I never ever use one Masterclock to send good boy jitters through my equipment that takes signal of my outboard gear.
People think twice: A masterclock is NOT a converter.
Yes think about it when your device needs to get the signal from your Masterclock, then runs through the BNC sexy cable de la muerte through your AD/DA converter, been syncrhonized with the main chip (as usual) and then back to your DAW, through all your wonderful magic coloured faders, busses and Master until it gets to your ears. (My name is John Delay and I am delayed since 1 millisecond, my brain twice more)
would it be precisely 48,000 samples ? ..and it's precise multiples ..I'm not talking 47,999 ..or 48,001 ...i want 4,8000 precisely ..I'm a synth / timing nut. Quartz clocks are pretty random ..what you get is what you get ..within tolerance ..but not 48k precisely ..if you see what i mean.
Can I synchronize my two computers runing each on ableton live to the same clock by connecting their soundcards via their wordclock BNC plugs and can it replace midi synchronization ?
No, not the same thing. This is to sync digital outboar and converter to your computer, not computers to daws
@@mixbustv Thanks 🙏
Do you need wordclock connecting multiple interfaces if you are using Apples Aggregate functions ?
Yes you do, clocking is needed to sync multiple digital interfaces or devices
No, I have a Symphony IO MK2 and Focusrite as an aggregate for FX sends and returns
I just added a Black Lion Audio Micro Clock MKII to re-clock my single interface and it makes a solid improvement above 12k and a massive improvement in the low end. I'm sure it's a case by case basis depending on what clock you use and what interface you are re-clocking. I think re-clocking my interface was a game changer!!!! Don't look at graphs, use your ears. External clocks make a big difference to my ears.
Not really a case by case it's science
Same I agree with you thats clocks make a nice difference, If you read the sound on sound article yourself you'll see that clocks introduce jitter which infact introduces distortion (Which the sound on sound guy describes as a worst performance but could be perceived as better on a subjective level). Its funny cause we say the distortion introduced by analogue EQ/Compressors is generally preferred to very clean and perfect digital, but when it comes to harmonics/distortions that clocks introduce people use the term "performs worse" ..... Well technically a 1073 scientifically performs worse than a clean pre amp .... In Michale Brauers Mix with The Masters he talks about the antelope clock and swears by it.
Ive been clocking my Apollo x16 to My Burl B2 (as master) and it made a sold difference, the transients are so much sharper and the stereo imaging improved a lot. None of the graphs and charts shown in this video can account for the effect clocking has on the transient information.
@@WhoIsAlexElliott you don't need graphs to understand IF something is happening to the transients, you just look at them and compare, so that too can be proven scientifically. Same for Stereo field, it's very unlikely anything at all happens to it unless the Apollo has a very very shitty internal clock. Science is science.
@@mixbustv we will have to agree to disagree, I am a big fan of your channel. But I'm also a huge fan of Michael Brauer who also says cloevk make a noticeable difference (He described it as an improvement). If your going to have an opinion on this then at least post some audio examples. I have several examples audio examples if you want me to send them over ?
That test was for tracking. Have you tried it for mixing?
no difference, and why would be
@@mixbustv The more tracks, the harder it is for the clock to keep things in sync. The charts you have that claim the clock doesn't make a difference? The major recording label studios have the Antelope 10X Uridium clocks ($6k). The Sales people brought the Antelope 10MX Rubidium Master Clocks to each studio to do a demonstration, they bought it because they could hear a difference. Greg Wells claims to have told the sales person he didn't have ten grand to spend on a new clock ( they were ten grand a few years back) the demonstration was done anyway, Greg then sold off some of his gear to get one. They are now down at 6k. I think the charts SOS has generated never did an A/B of clocks attempting to stabilize 50 tracks and 65 plugins. This omission is the reason (in my opinion) for the controversy. I know that AES digital has a 1v peak to peak, and this signal may be subjected to loss of sink due to dirty power, poor cables, adjacent power cables, voltage too low and/or too high, ground loops, inductance introduced by adjacent cables. The higher end clocks may be more sensitive to these things and if they didn't have the clock 5 feet from all the possible RF issues, oh, and that noisy data sound your smart phone makes when you have it near any audio? The SOS test never took any of this into consideration, and/or never stated that they made sure a strict protocol was followed.
@@TimKaseyMythHealer I don't really care about those charts, that was simply to give people some data. I heard many clocks, I've done my research, I think 10K or even 6 for a clock is ridiculous. My system is clocked with Dangerous AD+, even considering any improvement at all, and I highly doubt, in which case would just be either for the worse or simply a insignificant change in sound, which would be 100% subjective if it's better or worse, it wouldn't be worth it more than 1K. But people are obviously free to do whatever they an and spend the money wherever they feel like. As for "the major recording label studios have it" that's just not true. Few do, who's sponsored who's not is to be decided.
@@mixbustv Greg Wells and Antelope have a RUclips video where they give their personal story about the A/B difference. The sales rep also says that "everyone in town has one" He was in Sacramento at that particular time, and I assume he meant all major studios. Greg Wells wasn't interested in a new Clock, and said he was happy with what he had. He had the same perspective as you have now. The Antelope sales rep asked to bring one to the studio anyway, and just give a demonstration. Greg sold off several pieces of gear to get one, the difference was that good.
@@TimKaseyMythHealer I heard you the first time. I don't care what Greg says about it and even less what a sales rep says. You have my opinion in my previous comment, you believe what you want, I'm not trying to convince you nor anyone else.
Thanks, Professor Nyotesy (did I get close to the Italian with that phonetic spelling)? So it sounds like you're saying a grandfather clock in my studio won't help with this. ;)
@@mixbustv Haha! 🤣
tkm
Uhhh a reversed flag on your right shoulder. were you part of the US Army? if so, how was your experience??
ANSWER: No, it need an extra clock so their girlfiends don, t get angry for they arriving late at home, hahaha..;)
Nope
This is becoming a 'thing' on RUclips. I've viewed quite a few videos where people are really getting into giving the external clock an A/B try. What came up in one of the videos was two explanations of why both: 1) The SOS test is showing external clock deteriorations, and 2) People are giving these clocks a try and noticing that they make it sound better. How can this be? It was one comment response that got me thinking as to what is really happening here, and where further testing needs to be done. The SOS tests were done with no multitrack audio running through the system, and this may be a key factor in understanding the discrepancy. Sure, I'll accept that the external clock makes the system less stable, but what about when you've got 50 tracks and 30 plugins processing all that data? What if the internal clocking stability falls apart with large processing sessions? The comment that got me thinking about this, the individual stated that the sound of his mix in the box was better with the external clock. Again, no testing has been done where they state that 25 tracks of audio were streaming with 4 reverbs at the sub mix, and 34 plugins. All this testing was done with no A/B between heavy processing during internal/external comparison.
Because the first rule of any scientific test is do NOT have any other variable other than the one you're testing, that simple. Otherwise it's impossible to say what's doing what. If 1 track shows something, 25 will show the same 25x because it's data, given the same (lack of) variables.
@@mixbustv I'm going to see if I can't get into a local recording studio and bring my laptop and use my headphones and see if I notice anything different. The other option is to rent one for a day from a local professional audio company.
@@mixbustv Before you can even begin to test you must leave all preconceptions at the door. You've shot it down by opinion and a bad SOS A/B test... how's that scientific? I can make one or two phone calls to a few people, and ask their opinions, as well as rent some studio time to test the thing out myself. The jury is out with me, but siding with NOT concluding anything (as you have done) until I've done enough first hand testing. The damn thing is crazy expensive, and you may need to fly to some other city to even give it a listen. Additionally, I can pull up about 4 RUclips videos of large scale budget productions, and am beginning to understand that the clock is the definitive factor. I've heard studio recordings with similar equipment, but even they lack something. I keep seeing the Antelope inverter in the studios of the highest quality, most beautiful sounding systems. Also, the live touring groups that sound the best on RUclips, they are most likely using the Antelope 10MX.
@@TimKaseyMythHealer lol dude chill, go buy it then, your money, just stop with the "the best thing and the best that" k? K
Marketing worked on you, awesome, now let it go. Clock ain't a definite factor for me, not one bit, and "lack of something" because of the clock is absolutely laughable. Like before this the entire music industry was lacking something.. please.