Using an external DAC with your streamer
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- There is a clear trend on the web where people buy a cheap streamer to combine it with a higher class DAC. That sounds like a good idea but is it a sound investment?
Contents of this video
00:00 - Intro
00:20- Start of program
00:51 - The search
03:14 - Establishing differences
04:33 - How come?
06:47 - What’s to decide
08:17 - The wrap
Relevant links
Connecting your DAC #2: how digital can go wrong”: • 016 Connecting your DA...
"Understanding how perturbations on digital signals can affect sound quality without changing bits, and how these issues are addressed by the UpTone EtherREGEN.” cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/066...
Why digital circuits influence the sound quality: • Why digital circuits i...
About my reference setups, May 2023: • About my reference set...
If you like my work, support it through:
My Patreon page: / thehbchannel
Paypal: www.paypal.me/theHBchannel
My book: • File Based Audio aka S...
My links:
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As the owner of both a Wiim Mini and a Kia Picanto, I found this a brutal watch.
There is nothing wrong with the Wii nor with the Picante (I think it is a very good driving car in its Class). As long as you don't expect it to perform better than is it. Also not with wider tires and go-faster-stripes.
😂
Thanks for taking on discussions that others seem to run from!
Any time!
Thanks Hans, I learn something new with every episode.
That’s the idea 😊
Amazing, thank you for making this video. I've been wondering about these topics for years!
Glad it was helpful!
Love your videos Hans, they are always very informative on topics I am and have been interested in, I enjoy doing different combinations of components I own to hear the result
Cool, thanks
This is another excellent video Hans! Thank you.
Thank you too!
I am grateful to you for recommending the SOtM sms-200 streamer a few years ago. My favorite combination this year has been to pair it with a ten-year-old Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus (I prefer it to the Schiit Modi Multibit and iFi Zen I've tried) which I run through a 1976 Sansui AU-4900 integrated amplifier for a rich, detailed, vintage sound I that very much enjoy. Streamer and DAC are both priced between $400-$600 U.S. apiece.
Enjoy the music!
Thank you Hans. That's sound advice!
👍🏼
Another excellent episode. It provides concepts and examples, and illustrates how to think with concepts. Such a wonderful presentation is rare, and very helpful. Simple statements of what's what, what's better or best, are of much less help. Consideration of the context of the system in which a component will be use is essential. The concept of balance, as with so many things, is critical (e.g., using an equally-priced streamer and DAC combination that is of a quality commensurate with the system to which it will connected).
Thank you so much
Thanks for advice!
Our pleasure!
I did this with my Luxman D10x using a Bluesound Node to the D10X and then with an Aurrender A30 and then finally the N20. The N20 wins hands down. It has better isolation ,a much better power supply, and ocxo clock. Now I get virtually the same performance listening to both CDs and streaming with the N20 through the D10x
Thanks for sharing
Another topic I'm really curious about!
👍🏼
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Upgraded my Wiim Pro to an Aries Mini and upgraded the power supply to a LPS. Streaming digital via USB to a Schiit Bifrost. The difference in sound from the Wiim to the Aries is very noticeable. Happy camper.
I thought bird are bits🥴😉
I can confirm this. I went from a older model Bluesound Node 2i (optical out), then used a WiiM Mini for about a year, then returned to the latest Bluesound Node N130 (Fidelity Audio interface upgrade) with linear PSU, this time using the new USB output connection.
The difference in sound quality between the WiiM and the newly upgraded Bluesound was jaw dropping.
The WiiM is one of the best value products in the hifi world but this exercise demonstrated to me that it is crucial to attempt to get the cleanest signal to your dac and you will reap the rewards further down the chain.
Edit: I'm using a Musical Paradise MP-D2 Tube DAC upgraded & modified caps & valves
Thanks for sharing
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for sharing your knowledge and reviews!
U used the WiiM as a streamer and the DAC of the old Node?
👍Hans, I had thought it was plausible that the streamer didn’t matter, but now I can’t buy into that argument. I don’t know what cost would be required to reach a sonic plateau for a streamer, but after much effort, I realize that you are correct. I also think you nailed it. If you have a $100 streamer/DAC and you hook up a $200 external standalone DAC, you won’t be hearing the external DAC at its best, even though it will sound a bit better than with its internal DAC. 😉
Thanks for sharing
Danke! ☕️
🙏🏻🙏🏻
I upgraded the Wiim Pro with a KECES power supply using a Schiit Bifrost 2 going COAX out of the Wiim and it sounds quite excellent. If memory serves, I did own an iFi ZEN stream which still sounded better but had Wi-Fi/network issues and returned it.
Enjoy the music
Hello there
I use
RUclips music app
Chromecast audio (with original charger or iPhone charger)/Mini toslink out
Into
Dac (power bank for power) : fiio taishan or schiit modi 3+ or smsl c100
It sounds good and I think it's the maximum tune-up upgrade (to keep car analogy😉) for this streamer
System: DT D11 or AE100 mk2 speakers and preamp with marantz mm7025 or nad 3020i ( recapped)
🎉
If you're happy, enjoy the music.
Thanks!
Welcome!
Well running the Wiim Mini through the Pontus II can bring tears to my eyes with certain beautiful music. Better break out a box of Kleenex should I purchase a $1K+ streamer! Fascinating as always.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Are you using coaxial or usb between wilm and Pontus?
What is your favourite song?
Hi, I had the Ayre QB-9, with a noisy computer. To improve matters, I bought the SOtM mini neo USB bridge special edition with SBooster. The Ayre I upgraded to the 'twenty' version, and not to have an expensive dac with a cheap streaming transport, I will buy this week the SOtM USB bridge ultra neo special edition. Also 9 Volt, I'll keep the SBooster. Now I will hear the Ayre somewhat more to its full potential I presume. Thanks, Yoram
👍
Thanks Hans - You always manage to cut through the Bullsh*t in any of these scenarios. I have perhaps too many eggs in one basket by using a NAD M12 Pre Amp/DAC with Bluos Streaming Card as the front end of my system; if I replace I could end up with three new boxes :) Whether to try a new Streamer and Dac into this pre amp or just replace it, NAD have a replacement coming that also has Dirac etc....Let's see! I mean, hear...
Nothing wrong with many eggs in one basket, as long as the basket is strong and the eggs are not spoiled
My setup is compromised of used budget gear from goodwill and yard sales. The addition of a wiim mini with smsl su-1 dac combo is a luxury step up.
Just enjoy the music
You're not kidding about the difference in clarity, very low level detail presentation, and soundstage when using gear that handles the digital signal well, and when you have very clean power. Even using fairly high end pro gear, for example Benchmark DAC3, HPA4 headphone amplifier and Audeze LCD-5 reference headphones, I hear immediately audible improvement if this gear is fed by true, balanced AC power from a Furman balanced power transformer. I was surprised myself at the difference the balanced power makes. (Those billion dollar glorified power strips, however, not so much). The quality of the streaming source is just as audible to me as you state here as well. I hope people take your advice here seriously, because you reflect a very similar experience to what I have had.
👍🏼
I could not agree more Hans. I upgraded my DAC a while ago and I was still using my mid-fi streamer. I suspected a better streamer would make a difference but I didn’t know how much until I switched to a Grimm Mu1. The difference was night and day jumping from the Node 2i to the Grimm (after seeing your review). So again, I could not agree more with your assessment on this video. Thank you for your advice, it worked for me.
That must have been a shock😁. Yes, digital sources have far more impact to the sound than many realise. And you picked the best one I have ever heard!
Mr. Hans, what a great topic and review, congratulations.
Have a question for you, If you are willing to make opinion. I use streamer Primare np5 mk2, I think it plays very well and thinking of upgrading its power supply. Do you think it worth it. Otherwise I use amp Cambridge Audio CXA80 (I use internal dac) and speakers Wharfedale EVO 4.4. Was thinking of upgrading powersupply of Primare streamer or changing it to Eversolo A6 for "better" streaming and its dac?
I have tried to get a Primare review sample but didn't succeed. So I can't help you.
Hi Hans
With regards to streaming dacs like Dcs Bartok, Bricasti, Metronome, do you think if adding a separate streamer like aurender etc. increase the sq?
Thanks
I have not reviewed these products so I can’t say.
From my experience all components are equally important - like a chain analogy, but... foundation is power supply, AC power line I mean. If AC is not done all components are limited, very limited. For example Mytek Empire connected to AQ Niagara sounds less engainging than Mytek Brooklyn+ifi zen stream+Ferrum Hypsos (supply both mytek and zen stream) connected direct to power line from fuse box...Emipre is much more detailed and resolution sound, but holography, 3D, impression you are submerged in sound is much better on Brooklyn combo. Of course connected Empire this way is another story :)
So my expierence is to begin with AC power in your house/flat, only this allow to hear full potential of the component.
Best regards, Piotr
Amen
It would be interesting to review the new Wiim pro plus with the upgraded dac to see what you think. Great content.
Noted!
How would my ROON Core on a Mac Mini M1 factor into this? I have my Bluesound Node N130 connected to the Mac Mini via an Ethernet cable and the Bluesound Node is connected to my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ (powered by S-Booster) via a glass optical cable.
Hans, great vid as always, but now I need your feedback regarding ROON’s impact.
Help!
Roon and the Mac mini have no influence on the sound quality. The weakest link in your setup is the Bluesound. Consider buying a network bridge or streamer. You find the ones I reviewed here: ruclips.net/video/2XRi9utNBl4/видео.html&pp=gAQBiAQB
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel - thank you Hans! I have been looking at the Lumin U2 Mini tonight. I will review your recommended vid.
Best to you👍👍
Purely by coincidence I came in the possession of a WiiM Pro streamer. By all standards a fairly cheap thing. As I did not have a streamer yet I started to use it. As I was already in the possession of a half way decent power supplier (iFi iPower2) I just ignored the supplied wall wart. And I must say, using it with Qobuz I was not really disappointed. But then I connected it to an Modi+ dac and I was pleasantly surprised by the result. I can easily listen to this combo until I have saved up enough money to go with a more high end streamer. So while I agree that it's kind of stupid to buy a cheap streamer and combine it with a dac way above it's class, I also believe that you can do some smart budget buying and achieve acceptable quality within your means.
I agree
Thank you for your insightful videos. I’m curious if you have some thoughts regarding the sound quality of streaming from a computer to an electronically isolated re-clocker before going into a DAC. I’m using an Empirical Audio Off-Ramp re-clocker to a Channel Island Audio DAC.
I prefer not to connect audio gear directly to a computer. I rather would use a network bridge or streamer.
Hi Hans, your your video brings up more questions (electrical noise, clock, source, ISP, medium) than answers:
1. Regarding electrical noise, is it common mode or differential mode noise? If common mode, a common mode ferrite choke on the streamer (& DAC?) DC power leads may help. If differential mode a linear power supply with a good regulator may help.
2. Regarding the streamer clock. Is it frequency: accuracy, drift or amplitude/phase noise that is the problem?
3. Regarding the: source music server, internet service provider (ISP) & medium (cable or fiber), final connection (hard-wired or WiFi) how do these affect quality (if data error rate is good), is the quality location dependent?
If there are inexpensive solutions to enhance the performance of low cost streamers, like the Wiim Mini, we'd like to know?
1) we've tried it all
2) Drift is no problem. You won't know if the speed of audio is 1% higher after an hour. It's phase noise.
3) there are no inexpensive solutions in audio🥴
3) You didn't mention internet related effects? At your location your internet is good and you are able to differentiate different streamers. Is that true of all locations or are you particularly lucky?
(3) I've done more research & it's generally agreed its abundant error detection & correction it's a non issue for audio.
(2) We can't change the clock but (1) are there any inexpensive well reviewed multi output linear USB power supplies?
Thanks for the great explanations Hans. The digital output from a streamer gets converted to an analogue square wave and is input to the DAC. If the signal is corrupted from a power supply or has jitter the bits will be misinterpretted by the DAC. Why can't someone make a measurement of just how many bits are wrong and express it as a numerical error rate? Then explain how many bits need to be wrong to be noticeable by a low, medium, and high end cost/sounding system. Analogue hi-fi measurements/specs are made for frequency response, harmonic distortion, etc. Why can't there be a number on a streamer's output quality compared to the reference soure bits? That would be really helpful.
Please watch ruclips.net/video/B-StTplQZys/видео.html
in my budget (low) With my portable rig Shanling M0 and a Hidiz AP80 have found that using a external DAC via the USB C port (dragonfly black V2) gives better sound & higher amplification. I’m now looking at Chord Mojo V2 for the same but also the extra connectivity it offers. BUT I will listen first as it is a significant guilty pleasure buy and would love you to suggest comparable DACs offering similar benefits. At your levels i understand the science and the quality may disagree with my findings.
Follow your ears!!
Hans I love the practicality of this video and I also have a question: With a mid-market streamer/DAC, say like the Bluesound Node, would it be better to first upgrade the power supply before adding an external DAC? You have produced a previous video that explains how to do that. TYVM! /Peter F.
it's better to think about spending money in a more upmarket streamer. For instance a NAD or the Eversolo. The Node is great for the money but you shouldn't try to 'turn a Volkswagen Golf into a BMW'. If you know what I mean.
Shit...I have a Rega Elex-r amp and wanted to buy a DAC + the WiiM Pro Plus because it has 10 band EQ settings. I need to be able to tune bass/treble (with any speaker) because I have an oversensitive left ear.
Is it maybe better to buy a better streamer (Bluesound Node) and to add an Equilizer (Schitt Loki Mini), or will I still be stuck with the same problem as you mentioned in your video?
Thanks.
Or use player software with EQ built in like JRiver, Audirvana, Roon....
My setup consists of a relatively low end streamer compared to the DAC - the price of the streamer (plus lps) is about 40% of that of the DAC. So I decided to buy the Denafrips Iris ddc to cleanup the digital signal and also to get a better clock for an i2s connection to the DAC. I have yet to receive the ddc but I hope it’ll help to narrow the gap between the streamer and the DAC. Would like to know your opinion on this.
looks good
Hi Hans. I´m from Brazil, and i liked very much, so interesting!! You have a new follower!! I have a Chromecast AK4430 and Akliam D1 ES9038Q2M DAC. In this case, Chromecast directly to analog or plugged in the DAC? Can u tell what´s the best option? Just listening, I think with the DAC the sound is "brighter"...
I really can't say since I have no experience with both products.
It sounds like the entire argument against the Wiim mini or pro is the included switching power supply and associated noise transmitted to the dac over electrical connections, ie usb or coax.
How can this noise be transmitted to the dac if one uses toslink optical?
Also, how do the wiim units stack up with a known audiophile grade power supply or battery power source when feeding a known audiophile dac?
It is great for the money and will make many people happy. But don’t try to make it a €600 streamer for it will never be. Regardless how much you spend on accessories.
i am using a Bluesound Node digital out into a Denafrips Pontus. its heaven. i am using the new Rega Elex as an amp. i think the electronics downstream make the biggest difference. but i do have my eye on the new Denafrips streamer being released
I will review the new Denafrips streamer next month.
I'm using the Node n130 with a PD creative PSU ( which give you for 300 euro's a big improvement) connect via usb to a denafrips Hermes DDC --> Pontus 2. Why this strange choice? I still play CD's too, the audiolab CDT player is also connected to the Hermes, so the Hermes has a multiple function. And Hans forgot the mention that the app that comes with a streamer can make one decide for a brand like Bluesound and not Lumin like I did.
@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I view your point and I agree, but regarding DAC I have some real doubts.
First it’s no easy to appreciate the differences, and something wondering me that something is no clear.
Usually people agreed that CD sounds better than files (obviously talking about the same recording) and the CD DAC aren’t no so “specials” than hi level DAC… where is the trick?
So have you tried a cheap streamer via a reclocker such as the Hermes into the dac?
Is there a point I trying to make a Honda jazz perform like a BMW 3 series?
Hans, I wish you a nice holiday season for your family. You reviews are top shelf! I bought the Volumio Rivo off your review. I also have a RME ADI 2 fS DAC. I want to spend $800. to a $1000, on a power supply. I only want to start with one power supply. Would I be better off, buying LPS for my DAC or Streamer in regrds to sound quality? God Bless you sir.
Happy holidays! And thank you too.
I use a TvBox as a Streamer connected to a DAC Project and it sounds very good to my ears. Although I would like to try and hear the difference with a $400 max Streamer... I don't know if the difference in sound would be worth the expense...
Don't look further. Just enjoy the music
But what do you mean by ‘cheap’ with ref. To the streamer? Is that measured purely by price🤔 I am thinking to buy Bluesound Node X and to run that through a Chord Qutest or Dave dac…. Am I compromised by the streamer / power supply in this case? Please help with your input, many thanks
A streamer that costs clearly less than the DAC
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel yes I did pick that up from your video, as the blueOS systems is also clearly part of the cost. It’s something I need to consider further. Thanks for all you do 👍🤝
Before spending the extra money on the X version of the Node, from what I can read the upgrade on the X is the headphone amp and the the DAC. If you use it strictly as a digital streamer, I did not see anywhere that showed improvements over the regular Node. Have a look before you spend the extra money on the X for your particular use.
@@audiorick841 thanks, i did want the headphone connection as dont have a separate headphone amp. Also as you say the dac is improved over the node regular version, but guess that will be bypassed by the chord anyhow 🤔
Great Explanation ! I am using a McIntosh MX123 A/V processor 's DAC in stereo mode , Connected DIGITAL via a Coax Cable to a BluSound NODE streamer. Don't know if the streamer is "Good enough " .... as it is only in a streamer mode and the DAC is external. ( Speakers :Focal Spa 3 ) , PS : If the NODE is to be replaced , Any better streamer model advice will be appreciated. thanks
You could really do with a better streamer. Watch ruclips.net/video/kXaPM1VE5nU/видео.html&pp=gAQBiAQB
Thank You !!!@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
I received a dmp-a6 and have been using it as a streamer/Dac. I was considering between Weiss 204 and 205 the difference is the 204 has usb. I was wonder if the sound quality going through toslink into dmp-a6 is going to be as good as going through usb? The cost of the units are $1000 difference. Thanks for your time
If you have the standard DMP-A6 perhaps USB would be the best choice since it uses the clock in the DAC. If you would have the Master Edition, the SPDIF would be my choice. In both cases you probably will not get the full potential of the Weiss DAC. For that you probably would need a streamer two classes up.
Does the eversolo have bass/treble setting? Or other EQ settings?
Hi thanks for your video. Can you comment on why so many new streamers are ditching the USB out? I thought it was superior because external DAC controls the clock.
I don't know. But thinking that USB is superior is a mistake as I have said many times.
Sir, i am using naim supernait 3 as integrated amp....mostly use 2.1 stereo for music as well as movies (TV).....plz suggest me good dac (may be with streamer).....Sir is there any dac with eARC...
Thanks
I publish reviews since I am unable to advise everyone personally. See my reviews of Supernait worthy streamers here: ruclips.net/video/kXaPM1VE5nU/видео.html&pp=gAQBiAQB
Thankyou so much Sir...
Your reviews are excellent.....
I’m using an older iPad as a streamer for now.. When I have the funds maybe the Ifi Streamer would be something to check out..
Sure
What's your opinion about using a iPad into a Denafrips Aires II dac?
A waste
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannelA waste because the iPad is noisy or a waste to use it exclusively as a streamer? Because I multitask and surf the web and use Spotify’s UI on my iPad at the same time with a USB cable going to my DACs.
@@mikeg2491 up till now spotify uses lossy codecs, so your audio is ïncomplete" to start with (it misses information). You have a good DAC, so using a good streamer and playing lossless audio would improve sound quality very much in your system.
But if you want to stream via IPad lossy audio, you DAC is overrated for the system you have.(if you are satisfied with spotify)
Hans, love your channel. Having moved to Colombia I still enjoy my 2-300 LP’s. But leaning to digital more for obvious reasons. I have a rather naive question. Being a Qobuz user I don’t understand why folks buy files when they can be listened to anytime. Am I missing something? By the way, enjoying your playlists on Qobuz. Thank you!
Well if you buy, you own the product forever, if you hire, like with Qobuz, you loose access to the music.
Hello Hans: I am very interesting in looking into the Master Edition but can not find it listed anywhere here in the US. Do you know of any US distributor or even UK deal where I could purchase it and have it mailed to me here in the US. Thanks in advance. Hot Rod
In Europe it is sold through Amazon and many dealers. I don't know the situation at your place.
Thank You@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
I have found that an Android phone running the USB Audio Player Pro app sounds better than either the WiiM mini or Bluesound Node (used as transports), and is almost equal to a Primare NP5 with LPS in the system I tried these with.
I'm my main system an Auralic Aries G1 streamer is noticeably better than the Primare.
My first streamer was a Yamaha WXC-50, which I used with a Primare DAC30. I bought it because I wanted to try Qobuz, and I was very disappointed, the sound quality of 'CD quality streaming' was nowhere near that of an actual CD (played on the same DAC or from my CD player's analogue output). It wasn't until I got the Auralic that I was satisfied with listening to Qobuz or Tidal.
‘An Android telephone’ is a rather general description. There must be clear differences between models.
What is a good streamer that will do the Denefrips Ares ll justice ?
Watch ruclips.net/p/PLMbsmejHnP8HCpFfGZ-hYaOw0K7agKC0J&si=Z5QcmAbDPSPa5F6J
I had a eye opening experience about a month ago, when i upgraded my Pi streamer with a HiFiberry digi+ pro hat with an Audiophonics linear power supply, to a Ian Canada PI build with the same Audiophonics power supply but now with a battery and superconductor power system, an reclocker with upgraded clocks from Accusilicon and a transport layer for SPDIF out all connected to a PI4.
What was immediately apparent is the way the sound opened up and was flowing with ease, like I only have heard from much more expensive stuff, the effortlessness comes from a total black background. and the imaging much more 3D and holographic, what also hit me was how the bass on older recordings was fuller, and on newer recordings much more nuanced, everything sounded much more coherent especially well recorded/produced music sounds much, much better and somehow there is more sound, but the one thing that stands out is the ease, how the music flows, and that aspect surprised me the most in how much impact it has on the whole picture...
So bits are not just bits, Hans explains it very well, I'm just surpriced how much of an impact it actually had...
Enjoy the music
May I ask, given a PI4 with a spdif HAAT into a Schiit Modi DAC, does it make much difference which of the two to give the €5 PSU and which to give the €100 PSU. Or is Mr Beekhuyzen saying it makes little difference?
@@marklbreen I believe that Hans said that it is important to have the better power supply feeding the analogue circuitry, so therefore the better PSU should go to the DAC. No harm to test out the theory by switching them around. If you don't hear a difference then there is no difference for your system. In your case, I think the better option is the cheap PSU on the Pi, a better switch mode PSU on the HAAT assuming that the HAAT has a separate power input capability, and the best PSU on the DAC.
Looking forwards to this Hans. I have a blusound node 2i and have had three dissapointing trials with DACs in the euro 1500-2000 price poi
nt with streamers that have resulted in no purchase.
In general people that are disappointed in streaming equipment have bought a streamer that doesn't have the quality of the rest of their stereo.
Have you upgraded the power supply on the BlueSound?
In my experience, a Node 2i using an Sbooster power supply, feeding a Gustard X-16 DAC will produce a really good sound... all for a lot less than 2K
@@owenharris1048 Hello Owen, I have seen some positive feedback on alternative power supplies, but am not sure how I could arrange for a test to hear the effect with my ears.
Hello Hans, I hope you are well. Please review the Matrix Element S streamer.
I'll see what I can do.
Thanks Hans, your video did not touch on one point though. A good enough DAC should be able to filter out electrical noise from the USB connection, and if USB class II is used, it has to reclock the samples internally, by using its good internal clock. In this case I would expect such a good DAC to perform well with say a Wiim Mini, do you agree? If not, what am I missing?
Name me one DAC that does that, just one...... No I don't agree, not at all. it does not correspond to practice.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I think it would be really useful if you could elaborate on this, because it does seem to be an extremely common misconception in digital audio
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
I've read about the Chord Qutest having a galvanically isolate usb input.
Great advice that mirrors my experience, unfortunately it will fall on many deaf ears, pun intended.
Good one!
I would love to see a video with measument data showing this at play. I think that would be a first.
I measure everything and the moment measurements on a well designed piece of equipment tells us anything about the sound quality, I'll publish them. But things that matter in digital audio, like time smearing are easily heard but on measured.
Well made point Hans. Measurements alone don't always tell the full story.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Not wanted to offend and I watch your channel a lot. I would class myself as a semi-audiophile. I have a fairly decent setup. I just find it hard to believe you can hear the difference, most people fail the 320mp3 vs FLAC especially over a large number of tests and without constant A/B swap to try and discern. Never mind the difference a streamer excluding dac difference. Especially at your age, your hearing can not be that good surely I am jealous if it is haha. Im 34 and I already think my system is more than enough for my ears.
We basically never see double blind tests for these so I think its essentially placebo at play the vast majority of the time. Of course if you put you a fancy streamer with the best clocks in your system you will go wow this is amazing, but if someone were to swap it for a more basic one and level match etc. Do you think you would tell hand on heart?
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel That maybe an even better idea. How hard would it be to capture this (smearing and other artifacts) and present that for us to download. I will keep watching, as you always bring a different take on things and appreciate all your work.
Benchmark Media Systems, who make the DAC3, claim that any digital source will sound the same with their product, which sells for around $2000. It seems that they have a remedy to fix any upstream issues from something like a WiiM. All in all, $2000 sounds fair given the price of some digital sources which don’t take care of A to D conversion. Would be interesting to run your extreme test with this DAC model to see if your experience aligns with Benchmark’s claim.
Have you tried it?
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I compared the DAC3 with a Mac Min against a HifiBerry Digi+ and never heard a difference, but the Digi+ is hardly the level of your setup 1 as a dedicated source.
Could also be that my headphones are not resolving enough.
This is not a snarky comment at all by the way, I just wanted to suggest that with some DACs it could be that a cheap streamer does not hold back the performance. I don't quite have the technical knowledge to definitely make that claim though.
What about just using a reclocker on its own without the dac for the streamer ?
.???
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel i think hes asking about using a reclocker between the dac and cheap streamer with a good power supply
.
Dear Hans, thanks a lot for this, i was considering a wimm mini. Can i ask you which streamers you would look at in my set up: chord mojo2, atoll in200, monitor audio silver 300 g7? Thanks a lot for your advice!
ifi zen stream? Or wil it be a weaker link?
Hans unfortunately does not give buying advice. You have a nice system, so if you value Hans advice you should buy a streamer around 600 -800 in comparable quality to your dac. I use several wiim minis in my house and do enjoy the product. That said in my main stereo system I have my mini hooked up to an allo Shanti linear (that I had already owned) and Wyred 4 sound remedy (that I already owned), so I feel like I'm not losing much. In my headphone setups I use IFI Purifier 2's and for the Wiim's power supply I use IFI ipower, which did clean up the sound nicely. Anyway if streaming isn't your primary source for critical listening (which part of me thinks it disconnects you from the entire point of listening to music and can be a curse) or if you do not critically listen at all you would be happy with it. Anyway I hope I was helpful ✌🏻.
@jbenz9348 thanks a lot for your elabotate answer! If you would start over for your main system, you would probably buy a single more expensive streamer in stead of linear power supply and reclocker as that combo with the wimm included will be around 5 to 600 euro or not? The atoll and mojo 2 will be delivered In about 2 weeks so I think what I'll do is use my android phone for a while via the USB of the mojo2 and see what I think of it. Think that set up is likely to be similar to the wiim mini, would you agree? If I have the feeling I'm missing a lot I can always compare to a more serious streamer with a return policy. Pitty that Chord Poly does not support spotify connect. Really would want a streamer that does this natively. I agree somewhat with your statement on streaming platforms, but I just recently went back into 2 channel and the thought of building a vinyl collection is a bit daunting 🤣 anyways thanks for your thoughts, cheers.
I give you buying advice every week, and for free. But you do need to think about your situation: how critical am I, how much is the dollar worth for me and so on. Then watch my reviews, see in what reference setup I place the reviewed piece of gear and then decide.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks Hans, I was looking at your setup 2 actually for reference
This is exactly what has happened to me. I have good DACs/Intergrated Amps. I use a TV in one system and a cheap Wimm streamer in the other. I'm really debating on upgrading the Wimm however will it make a difference?😊 😊😊
It depends on how good your DACs and Amps are....
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Well my main system I use an integrated Denon A110 Anniversary Edition (£3500) which has an integrated DAC which uses Burr Brown PCM1795 chips in a quadruple configuration and I have the Wimm currently going into this 😅. My other system I have a separate DAC called the VMV D1se (Smsl premium sister company - £700) which is built around 2 Ess ES9038RO DACs feeding a Valve Amp (Wellsenton R8). It's the Denon I'm really debating as the Wimm doesn't sound as good as my CD player (Cyrus).
Also, thank you for the reply.
Save the money and buy more CDs then!
@@GeorgeFrideric71 good idea, I am finding though alot of newer independent artists aren't even releasing on CD or Vinyl, just the streaming platforms. Oh I'll be supporting united later today 😉
@@2HatHudders I’d probably suspect the WiiM before I’d suspect the Denon. If your CD player has a coax out, run that into your Denon’s DAC. If the CD player still sounds good, it’s not your Denon. The “issue” would then be pointing to the WiiM. 👨🏻G.
What is considered a cheap streamer? A Wii or a Blue Sound?
A streamer that costs clearly less than your DAC
Wiim pro/plus?
Kia Picanto or BMW seven series??
While I agree on your premises and I cringe when I see absolute opinions on how unimportant the transport quality is as long as the dac has good jitter suppression, I think a common factor that people with relatively limited budgets consider is the longevity vs investment . Speakers , amplifiers and even dacs if they are of high quality tend to last for decades . Is streaming technology at this kind of maturity? Also, what weight ( percentage wise out of the total system sound quality) would you assign to the streamer as a pure transport in a mid tier system . - Let’s say of a total cost of 3000 euro -
You're asking that to someone that found it useful to have a € 12,000 steamer..... All components define a part of the audio quality. Use your ears and you'll see. and perhaps watch ruclips.net/video/B-StTplQZys/видео.html
Hi Sir Good morning ☀️, Can you give us a review of Cocktails audio DAC N 25 with Streamer test report. Please kindly do this product, It’s made in Korea. Wait for your positive reply. Thanks 🙏.
Will try, no promise
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel okay Sir take your time not in hurry sir. The reviews from your side is truly amazing facts your giving information. That’s very helpful for us who don’t know any idea about music systems. We only know to buy it. In your correct information I have learned lot. Thank you so much Sir. 🙏
My pleasure entirely!
This feels allot like bashing..
Allot of people know a Grimm mu1 will outperform a Wiim mini SQ wise, even if you connect the Wiim to a silent Ifi power supply.
Yet a Wiim mini with a silent power supply and a nice dac for the same total price of a Eversolo dmp a6 will outperform the eversolo pretty easily.
Dream on
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel lets agree to disagree on this one unless you can come up with measurable distortions or jitter.
But... Price quantity doesn't always correlate to quality.
True. That’s why I always make a pre selection. Nothing is more frustrating than having to do a review of a poor performing product.
What is pre-selection and I’m still not clear on how price correlated to quality. Should I always match the price of my streamer with the price of my dac? And doesn’t getting a good performing dac allow for a future upgrade potential especially up from a Wii’s mini which has minimal financial commitment? Especially to newcomers to steaming? Thanks for the video Hans.
If higher price means better componentry (esp. power supplies & clocks) then the price/quality correlation is more often than not true and is nearly always the case in high end (say arbitralily >$10k. In the sub $5k pricing categories, the price/quality correlations can be quite tenuous. But as with eveyrthing in life there are exceptions and outliers.
The car analogy isn't so useful in America. Those models either break easily or are simply not available.
Well take any cheap tiny car and any upmarket one.
Thanks!
You too.