thought everyone mostly agree that top tier needs long range maps instead of small ass flat maps designed specifically for top tier tech cus seeing enemies after 5 seconds is pretty ass in top tier and makes it too arcadey I think all the 5 sec reloads wouldnt be so infuriating to people who dont have them if the map was bigger and more varried in terrain and theres more chances of them missing their shots instead compared to having them on cqc maps where people could zoom around and shoot on third person with 5 sec reloads
Probably the most sane counter argument here, but I still believe lowering the player count in the same maps is a much more in-reach change. Bigger maps need a gameplay overhaul, better objectives and by default will go wrong with a game mode like battle. It's just gonna end up in a camping fest with barely any action going on for a playerbase literally conditioned to fixate on progression. Unfortunately the only thing avg warthunder player will experince for the majority of time is indeed brawling, but since it's the only thing they know, it's the only thing they hate. The game definitely needs change and a future overhaul to make the game fun without progression, that's the only way for it to thrive long term. But I don't think it's as simple as large maps and long range fights good and brawling bad, both will have their downfalls but the former is the least tested, the least experienced and therfore idealized as the ultimate solution(by this comment section).
Create large maps with a minimum engage range of 2KM's Use a new type of "flag" that is the same as the front-line of enduring confrontation. Give points for holding your position giving people a reason to protect a base for instance. Give a 2X or even a 3x modifier to XP and lions if you defend a point and are nearby one. Get points for killing people inside your sector or when you attack a sector. Add a toggable button on Ground battles "Enable super large maps 8.0+" and now get a 80% chance for a super large map of maybe 8x8 km's This gives more reason for people to stay and defend their bases instead of the typical stuff that happens now when you have 2 cap zones. People just rush for each others ones and the ones defending now suddenly are often alone of with 2 other guys facing a zombie horde of volumetric tanks rushing at them..... Heck you know what? Give us bloody Enduring Ground battles on the Enduring Sim battle maps for Air. Capture "spawn bases" so your team has a new FOB to spawn from so if you die you dont have to start at the back. Litterally most modern realistic shooters do it this way. Battlefield, Squad and Hell let Lose to give a few examples Give them points for being alive like Enduring Air already does. Sometimes i literally fly for 3 hours barely doing anything yet when it finishes i have over 80k Research and 250k lions
point blank APFSDS simulator is not fun and never has been, especially when the game becomes who pushes first dies. longer range maps are exactly what the game needs for air and ground RB. most of the maps are designed around WW2 and early cold war shit tanks that have not been updated in years.
spoken like someone who doesn't play top tier. unless the guy is going 60kph perpendicular to you, pressing R and shooting from 2km for a weak spot still isnt difficult. just lower the player count and design better maps. have some actual cover for movement out of spawn and in the open. larger maps the way they design them now has you getting nuked by cas from 15km away.
For air I agree for ground is too far out of reach without a serious overhaul. Any version of large maps like Pradesh or Tunisia is hated by most of the players inside the match so excuse me if I won't your input to heart. Whatever is in your imagination in long range fights will fold once you see it for yourself, specially in top tier that a lot of tanks have really small weak spots and they can play peekaboo with hills and remain untouched.
@@Sebastian-tm6ud spoken like someone who actually doesn't play top tier? CAS wouldn't be an issue if all nations had actual AA to counter the best planes
I m sorry but I don't agree with you. Most fun I get from this game on TOP top tier is on long range maps. CAS is a problem however Top Tier should stick to EVEN LARGER maps. I always hated city maps on top tier. Top tier could have the maps that have up to 3-4-5 KM engagement ranges that would really show how real battles are done in that tier. Lot of cover from CAS is also appreciated. WW2 tiers are really good atm with current and new maps. Toptier needs major major re-thinking in terms of Gajin, same goes for ARB.
Don't be sorry bro, I'm here to solve a problem and I appreciate your point of view. I get the argument, most of them I argued for a year on this channel, but the game needs a serious overhaul for the large maps to be actually fun and I'm not sure gaijin is ready to do it. Until then I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that brawling is not the most important aspect of warthunder from 1.0 to top tier itself and the current large map depictions are fun.
A simple solution to make top tier less of an arcady, snowballing frustration fest? Bump up the size of the maps top tier uses. Low-mid tier matches are more engaging because there is some time to maneuver, use tactics, position, create chokepoints, flank, you know- engaging gameplay elements. Right now top-tier is just a point blank RNG knife fight where you leave your spawn and 2 seconds later you're being shot at.
Would love to get a couple 8x8km or such maps starting from 7.0 (early darts and 2 plane stabilizers). They could for a start just make one of those and if it doesn't work cut it up to currently normal sized maps.
Tbh i think alot of people cheat in tank rb, or they are just massive losers who spend way too much time learning every map and tank and where to shoot them, i cant do it i had friends in highschool and am sexually active that makes it impossible for me to learn
Big maps are a problem because of CAS and city maps are literal CS GO. Tanks don't really fight at close range and gayjin wants to talk about realistic. Right now you can get 1 ASSIST and spawn in a fully loaded helicopter which can spawn in and go up and then see the whole enemy team (iq 500 devs) while being outside of the map. They clearly want people running around like brainless chickens and not camping so everyone keeps dying coz they don't get anything from 1 insane player killing the whole enemy team so that's where CAS comes in. Only tank mode can save this game.
@@nikolaperic6307 CAS can be deterred with some SAM sites around the battlefield that CAS would have to deal with in addition to the players on the field. All the game modes need some work at a fundamental level right now to make them more balanced and engaging with the vehicles we have available now vs 12 years ago when the game first used these exact same air modes and 8 years ago or whatever for tank modes.
@@ltcuddles685 sounds like that in theory but in a real game you cant deal with 2 planes and 2 helis in the same , they just need to switch to thermal and can see the whole bf. SPAA can see the planes right as they spawn too but the difference is auto tracking for cas which is basically a legal cheat. So you get high spawn instead of spawning on the damn ground and you can see everyone (wallhack) + you get armament that is auto tracking (aimbot). I dont understand why are people trying to defend cas lmao. Prob coz ppl are trash at tanks and need their free shot at someone.
CQB brawling is not something that requires a huge amount of skill. If anything, requires positioning and luck cause if your hit was registered at a different tick from your original aiming spot, you may clearly see a different result on your hit, from lesser spall to a straight up nonpen due to volumetrics. War Thunder, as a matter of fact, needs bigger maps. There's no point on having laser rangefinders and long-range-conceived APFSDS for continuous
The realism curse exists, but even with that there are still many ways to nerf/buff tanks that have information available for the public. With the addition of new module-based damage there is a lot of ways to "nerf things", right now "auto-loader damage" is easily possible by a single shot of an auto cannon to upper parts of a russian T-series tanks. They can still meddle with penetrations, engine sounds etc. But the problem is not Japenese tanks, I take shots at them cuz it's funny. for the most part japenese players are far less numerous than other nations and what they have in reload time, they lack in other aspects. it was just there to show you the contrast between reload times.
correct me if I'm wrong, but this guy is saying that long range sucks while the entire comments section is saying, nah CQC(brawling) sucks. Did I get that right? If so then looks like Gorilla's opinion is vastly outnumbered in this small sample size of roughly 25 comments and 1.5k views as of the time of me posting this comment on 12, Nov. 2024
It's not that really, it's the fact that most of the playerbase right now probably has no idea of how the large maps unfold when it gets to gameplay. they are frustrated and it's understandable, the game definitely needs more objective-oriented game modes and needs to remove modes like battle and conquest. But in reality most of the players were sick of Pradesh and Tunisia's larger edition, why? A lot of shells will seize to be good just because of the distance, better turret armor and depression will be the main attribute, and it's gonna be a spawn to spawn shootout just like how Pradesh and Tunisia were. Small maps in their minds is Mozdok, brawling in their mind is melee distance knife fights, in other words they are idealizing something that is rare in the game(Large maps) and totally missing the point of the video. Reload times and player count are by far the most influential when it gets to chaoticness of the gameplay.
@@GorillaScientist You're gaslighted. No one likes CQB other than you and maybe some other 20 weird dudes in the entire community. Hoping for larger maps has nothing to do with 'idealizing', is the fact that the Abrams, Leopards, Japanese tanks, etc. were not created with laser rangefinders and APFSDS in mind to combat threats at 200m over the corner of an indestructible building. You still have the entire tech tree before 10.X to have fun with your 'brawls' if you find them funny. But even in the forums people is so over this bs gameplay experience more related to CS:GO/CS2 than a proper combined arms experience.
You're right. This guy is definately gaslighted. While it's okay to find CQB fun, saying that most of the community finds it fun is a wild overstatement, and a straightup lie.
You sound like you are playing a totally different game than Warthunder, people love brawling, that's what they are doing 80% of the time. Warthunder is literally centered around brawling, and just because you have little to no experince in large maps it doesn't automatically make it the go to solution. Large maps need overhauled game modes, something that gaijin has repeatedly avoided to change, have you seen Pradesh in "battle" game mode? It becomes a camp fest and most of the matches become a feast for CAS, there is obviously something wrong with how these maps are designed and lack of objectives to fill the spaces, but that's a whole another issue that has nothing to do with brawling. You are hating on brawling simply because that's the only thing you can hate on genius, this game is shaped around it and the most accessible fix is to adress what worsened the situation in the first place aka 5s base reload time and 32 players packed into otherwise perfectly fine map sizes.
@@GorillaScientist Your entire comment section proves me right. There's little to no point on denying that CQB at top tier is the most miserable gameplay experience. Top tier needs bigger maps, along a rework on how GRB allows the spawn of planes/helicopters
Never go higher then 8.0, hit 8.3+ and you will start facing the bullshit tanks and the first bullshit planes. 3,7 4,7 5,7 6,7 7,7 are all by far the best and it's nice to see all kinds of tanks still being added there often with hilarious strengths and weaknesses.
as a leopard player i can say it's stupid everyone got 5sec reload everytime me and an arbram shot each other at close contact and neither of us kill the loader and commander and i know I'm dead because it just has better reload time than me
yea and for 3+ years if either a leo or abrams shot where the auto loader on a russian tank was when they werent fucking modeled, but he killed your loader, you knew you were dead too.
Longer and larger maps, bigger teams but not just desserts and hills only please. Be a bit creative with it. Also more creative game modes than this slop that we get. Maybe like go battlefield one style with a massive linear map that one team attacks while the other defends and falls back to different points if the area points get taken. I think that would drastically spice up the gameplay.
First we need to convince gaijin that Battle and Conquest are both trash and regressive, then we can move into new versions of Domination to be more like Battlefield. Have more objectives, longer matches, and doing smaller activities in between to find meaning and fun, the new construction mechanics are a good first step.
the main reason we are not getting bigger maps is because cas is waaaay too op on them beacuse as a groud wehicle you have nowhere to hide, also games end too quickly in the domination mode for big maps. Imo i think that they should make a new game mode that is also about capaturing points but make it last longer on bigger maps so the slower tanks can impact the game, make the only be 3 air unit up at a single time (not gonna happen cuz gajin loves cas cuz it sells well).
I'd bet that the abrams so far is better thanks to no ammo in the front of the hull and a reloader that gives out a 5 sec reload without getting tired. Its main problem though is the braindead playerbase that tends to main it.
@VIT-ey8wo leopards rule the meta they simply get the perfect blend of everything. They have the best armor layout and survivability excellent gun handling excellent fire power and good mobility. Abrams is good yes but it's armor is just no wear near as good
Tank RB is so garbage if u are a normal person who had friends in highschool, sorry im too cool and swaggy to ever learn specific tanks and where to shoot them
thought everyone mostly agree that top tier needs long range maps instead of small ass flat maps
designed specifically for top tier tech cus seeing enemies after 5 seconds is pretty ass in top tier and makes it too arcadey
I think all the 5 sec reloads wouldnt be so infuriating to people who dont have them if the map was bigger and more varried in terrain and theres more chances of them missing their shots instead compared to having them on cqc maps where people could zoom around and shoot on third person with 5 sec reloads
Probably the most sane counter argument here, but I still believe lowering the player count in the same maps is a much more in-reach change.
Bigger maps need a gameplay overhaul, better objectives and by default will go wrong with a game mode like battle. It's just gonna end up in a camping fest with barely any action going on for a playerbase literally conditioned to fixate on progression.
Unfortunately the only thing avg warthunder player will experince for the majority of time is indeed brawling, but since it's the only thing they know, it's the only thing they hate.
The game definitely needs change and a future overhaul to make the game fun without progression, that's the only way for it to thrive long term.
But I don't think it's as simple as large maps and long range fights good and brawling bad, both will have their downfalls but the former is the least tested, the least experienced and therfore idealized as the ultimate solution(by this comment section).
Create large maps with a minimum engage range of 2KM's Use a new type of "flag" that is the same as the front-line of enduring confrontation. Give points for holding your position giving people a reason to protect a base for instance. Give a 2X or even a 3x modifier to XP and lions if you defend a point and are nearby one. Get points for killing people inside your sector or when you attack a sector. Add a toggable button on Ground battles "Enable super large maps 8.0+" and now get a 80% chance for a super large map of maybe 8x8 km's This gives more reason for people to stay and defend their bases instead of the typical stuff that happens now when you have 2 cap zones. People just rush for each others ones and the ones defending now suddenly are often alone of with 2 other guys facing a zombie horde of volumetric tanks rushing at them.....
Heck you know what? Give us bloody Enduring Ground battles on the Enduring Sim battle maps for Air. Capture "spawn bases" so your team has a new FOB to spawn from so if you die you dont have to start at the back. Litterally most modern realistic shooters do it this way. Battlefield, Squad and Hell let Lose to give a few examples Give them points for being alive like Enduring Air already does. Sometimes i literally fly for 3 hours barely doing anything yet when it finishes i have over 80k Research and 250k lions
point blank APFSDS simulator is not fun and never has been, especially when the game becomes who pushes first dies.
longer range maps are exactly what the game needs for air and ground RB. most of the maps are designed around WW2 and early cold war shit tanks that have not been updated in years.
spoken like someone who doesn't play top tier. unless the guy is going 60kph perpendicular to you, pressing R and shooting from 2km for a weak spot still isnt difficult.
just lower the player count and design better maps. have some actual cover for movement out of spawn and in the open. larger maps the way they design them now has you getting nuked by cas from 15km away.
For air I agree for ground is too far out of reach without a serious overhaul.
Any version of large maps like Pradesh or Tunisia is hated by most of the players inside the match so excuse me if I won't your input to heart.
Whatever is in your imagination in long range fights will fold once you see it for yourself, specially in top tier that a lot of tanks have really small weak spots and they can play peekaboo with hills and remain untouched.
@@Sebastian-tm6ud spoken like someone who actually doesn't play top tier? CAS wouldn't be an issue if all nations had actual AA to counter the best planes
I m sorry but I don't agree with you.
Most fun I get from this game on TOP top tier is on long range maps.
CAS is a problem however Top Tier should stick to EVEN LARGER maps.
I always hated city maps on top tier.
Top tier could have the maps that have up to 3-4-5 KM engagement ranges that would really show how real battles are done in that tier. Lot of cover from CAS is also appreciated.
WW2 tiers are really good atm with current and new maps.
Toptier needs major major re-thinking in terms of Gajin, same goes for ARB.
Don't be sorry bro, I'm here to solve a problem and I appreciate your point of view.
I get the argument, most of them I argued for a year on this channel, but the game needs a serious overhaul for the large maps to be actually fun and I'm not sure gaijin is ready to do it.
Until then I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that brawling is not the most important aspect of warthunder from 1.0 to top tier itself and the current large map depictions are fun.
@@GorillaScientist Thank you.
A simple solution to make top tier less of an arcady, snowballing frustration fest? Bump up the size of the maps top tier uses. Low-mid tier matches are more engaging because there is some time to maneuver, use tactics, position, create chokepoints, flank, you know- engaging gameplay elements. Right now top-tier is just a point blank RNG knife fight where you leave your spawn and 2 seconds later you're being shot at.
Don't even get to leave the spawns
Would love to get a couple 8x8km or such maps starting from 7.0 (early darts and 2 plane stabilizers).
They could for a start just make one of those and if it doesn't work cut it up to currently normal sized maps.
War Thunder, as a matter of fact, needs bigger maps. There's no point on having laser rangefinders and long-range-conceived APFSDS for continuous
Tbh i think alot of people cheat in tank rb, or they are just massive losers who spend way too much time learning every map and tank and where to shoot them, i cant do it i had friends in highschool and am sexually active that makes it impossible for me to learn
The thing is, on massive maps you would just get campers that win every fight by the virtue of always firing first, and thats not fun for anyone
Big maps are a problem because of CAS and city maps are literal CS GO. Tanks don't really fight at close range and gayjin wants to talk about realistic. Right now you can get 1 ASSIST and spawn in a fully loaded helicopter which can spawn in and go up and then see the whole enemy team (iq 500 devs) while being outside of the map. They clearly want people running around like brainless chickens and not camping so everyone keeps dying coz they don't get anything from 1 insane player killing the whole enemy team so that's where CAS comes in. Only tank mode can save this game.
@@nikolaperic6307 CAS can be deterred with some SAM sites around the battlefield that CAS would have to deal with in addition to the players on the field. All the game modes need some work at a fundamental level right now to make them more balanced and engaging with the vehicles we have available now vs 12 years ago when the game first used these exact same air modes and 8 years ago or whatever for tank modes.
@@ltcuddles685 sounds like that in theory but in a real game you cant deal with 2 planes and 2 helis in the same , they just need to switch to thermal and can see the whole bf. SPAA can see the planes right as they spawn too but the difference is auto tracking for cas which is basically a legal cheat. So you get high spawn instead of spawning on the damn ground and you can see everyone (wallhack) + you get armament that is auto tracking (aimbot). I dont understand why are people trying to defend cas lmao. Prob coz ppl are trash at tanks and need their free shot at someone.
@@nikolaperic6307 I forgot to specify I meant pre-placed AI sam sites.
CQB brawling is not something that requires a huge amount of skill. If anything, requires positioning and luck cause if your hit was registered at a different tick from your original aiming spot, you may clearly see a different result on your hit, from lesser spall to a straight up nonpen due to volumetrics.
War Thunder, as a matter of fact, needs bigger maps. There's no point on having laser rangefinders and long-range-conceived APFSDS for continuous
In other news: those are actual reload times of Japan autoloaders. Fun Fact: The Type 10 should actually be 3.5 seconds. *Wikipedia
It has an emergency mode that lasts for 1.7 seconds per shot, but it damages the gun and only allows for 8 rounds to be fired.
The realism curse exists, but even with that there are still many ways to nerf/buff tanks that have information available for the public.
With the addition of new module-based damage there is a lot of ways to "nerf things", right now "auto-loader damage" is easily possible by a single shot of an auto cannon to upper parts of a russian T-series tanks.
They can still meddle with penetrations, engine sounds etc.
But the problem is not Japenese tanks, I take shots at them cuz it's funny. for the most part japenese players are far less numerous than other nations and what they have in reload time, they lack in other aspects. it was just there to show you the contrast between reload times.
brawling and cqc make top tier unfun. long range maps are way better.
youre so weird
Good job lieutenant.
correct me if I'm wrong, but this guy is saying that long range sucks while the entire comments section is saying, nah CQC(brawling) sucks. Did I get that right? If so then looks like Gorilla's opinion is vastly outnumbered in this small sample size of roughly 25 comments and 1.5k views as of the time of me posting this comment on 12, Nov. 2024
It's not that really, it's the fact that most of the playerbase right now probably has no idea of how the large maps unfold when it gets to gameplay.
they are frustrated and it's understandable, the game definitely needs more objective-oriented game modes and needs to remove modes like battle and conquest.
But in reality most of the players were sick of Pradesh and Tunisia's larger edition, why?
A lot of shells will seize to be good just because of the distance, better turret armor and depression will be the main attribute, and it's gonna be a spawn to spawn shootout just like how Pradesh and Tunisia were.
Small maps in their minds is Mozdok, brawling in their mind is melee distance knife fights, in other words they are idealizing something that is rare in the game(Large maps) and totally missing the point of the video.
Reload times and player count are by far the most influential when it gets to chaoticness of the gameplay.
@@GorillaScientist You're gaslighted. No one likes CQB other than you and maybe some other 20 weird dudes in the entire community.
Hoping for larger maps has nothing to do with 'idealizing', is the fact that the Abrams, Leopards, Japanese tanks, etc. were not created with laser rangefinders and APFSDS in mind to combat threats at 200m over the corner of an indestructible building. You still have the entire tech tree before 10.X to have fun with your 'brawls' if you find them funny.
But even in the forums people is so over this bs gameplay experience more related to CS:GO/CS2 than a proper combined arms experience.
You're right. This guy is definately gaslighted.
While it's okay to find CQB fun, saying that most of the community finds it fun is a wild overstatement, and a straightup lie.
You sound like you are playing a totally different game than Warthunder, people love brawling, that's what they are doing 80% of the time.
Warthunder is literally centered around brawling, and just because you have little to no experince in large maps it doesn't automatically make it the go to solution.
Large maps need overhauled game modes, something that gaijin has repeatedly avoided to change, have you seen Pradesh in "battle" game mode?
It becomes a camp fest and most of the matches become a feast for CAS, there is obviously something wrong with how these maps are designed and lack of objectives to fill the spaces, but that's a whole another issue that has nothing to do with brawling.
You are hating on brawling simply because that's the only thing you can hate on genius, this game is shaped around it and the most accessible fix is to adress what worsened the situation in the first place aka 5s base reload time and 32 players packed into otherwise perfectly fine map sizes.
@@GorillaScientist Your entire comment section proves me right. There's little to no point on denying that CQB at top tier is the most miserable gameplay experience. Top tier needs bigger maps, along a rework on how GRB allows the spawn of planes/helicopters
Type 10 an Tkx were nerfed from the start.
War Ops 6: Call of Thunder
Need me a MP5 fr fr
Never go higher then 8.0, hit 8.3+ and you will start facing the bullshit tanks and the first bullshit planes. 3,7 4,7 5,7 6,7 7,7 are all by far the best and it's nice to see all kinds of tanks still being added there often with hilarious strengths and weaknesses.
as a leopard player i can say it's stupid everyone got 5sec reload
everytime me and an arbram shot each other at close contact and neither of us kill the loader and commander and i know I'm dead because it just has better reload time than me
yea and for 3+ years if either a leo or abrams shot where the auto loader on a russian tank was when they werent fucking modeled, but he killed your loader, you knew you were dead too.
Great video as always!
Longer and larger maps, bigger teams but not just desserts and hills only please. Be a bit creative with it. Also more creative game modes than this slop that we get. Maybe like go battlefield one style with a massive linear map that one team attacks while the other defends and falls back to different points if the area points get taken. I think that would drastically spice up the gameplay.
First we need to convince gaijin that Battle and Conquest are both trash and regressive, then we can move into new versions of Domination to be more like Battlefield.
Have more objectives, longer matches, and doing smaller activities in between to find meaning and fun, the new construction mechanics are a good first step.
I'm taking a long rest from wt to save my sanity, and it looks like I did the right thing 😂 great video as usual, brother ❤
the main reason we are not getting bigger maps is because cas is waaaay too op on them beacuse as a groud wehicle you have nowhere to hide, also games end too quickly in the domination mode for big maps. Imo i think that they should make a new game mode that is also about capaturing points but make it last longer on bigger maps so the slower tanks can impact the game, make the only be 3 air unit up at a single time (not gonna happen cuz gajin loves cas cuz it sells well).
doesnt even mention leopard 2's while having slower average reloads they are still the best tanks by far
So? 🤨
I'd bet that the abrams so far is better thanks to no ammo in the front of the hull and a reloader that gives out a 5 sec reload without getting tired.
Its main problem though is the braindead playerbase that tends to main it.
@VIT-ey8wo leopards rule the meta they simply get the perfect blend of everything. They have the best armor layout and survivability excellent gun handling excellent fire power and good mobility. Abrams is good yes but it's armor is just no wear near as good
Tank RB is so garbage if u are a normal person who had friends in highschool, sorry im too cool and swaggy to ever learn specific tanks and where to shoot them