I may be the first person ever to figure this out but Luthor's line at the end, where he says "Too true to be good" has always bothered me because the saying is supposed to be "too good to be true". Anyway I did some digging and found out that "Too True to Be Good" is the title of a play that George Bernard Shaw wrote. Shaw also wrote "Man and Superman". I'd like to point out that this was one of Donner's scenes that he filmed before he was fired, and the producers had no choice but to keep it in the movie because Gene Hackman refused to return for reshoots. So credit goes to Donner and Tom Mankiewics for this very subtle and clever line of dialogue. Those two men should have never been prevented from completing Superman II.
Interesting, but not surprising. There are many secrets hidden in plain sight in the Donner/Mankiewics Superman. "Man and Superman" promoted the idea that it is women who drive society to produce Nietzsche's Supermen. This piece of knowledge solidifies my observation that Lois had symbolically become the "Super" woman in the Donner depowering scene, where she wears the Superman shirt. It also supports the theme of the movie that giving all control to a woman can only lead to ruin. This leads me to believe that Mankiewicz was decidely against George Bernard Shaw's philosophical beliefs, hence the villain quoting his work. What a wonderful thing art is.
@@sebastianmolina5606 The Salkinds were blown away by how successful Superman: The Movie was and they got greedy. They didn’t want to pay Marlon Brando for his work on Superman II, so his scenes were deleted. This upset director Richard Donner and the cast members. Additionally the producers felt that Donner was wasting their money. Finally there were creative differences between the Salkinds and Donner. Richard Lester was brought in as a go between. His job was to mitigate the hostility between the two parties. The Salkinds ended up firing Donner and replacing him with Lester.
this should have occurred in Superman I. It would prove his genius that he uses nuclear missiles to distract Superman by making him toss one into space to free the criminals while still (hopefully) getting his beachfront property and it would flow better with the criminals being freed in the start of the film. In the regular cut, the mother says an atomic bomb could release them but the elevator in the Eiffel tower didnt have an atomic bomb but it is implied because of what she said....
Eh, that feels too convoluted. Having the villains freed as an unintended consequence of the nuclear missiles works well but having it be Luthor’s plan stretches logic, since how would he know Supermanwoukd toss them at the exact right place at the exact right moment that they would smash into the Phantom Zone? What fits better is an old theory I heard, before the Donner Cut was announced and some of its details were only rumored about. The theory went that Jor-El stripped Kal-El of his powers in response to his turning back time, which would have been a violation of Jor-El’s admonishment not to interfere with human history. It’s not a bad concept, though it would mean altering the Clark/Lois story arc and perhaps detract from the heart of the Donner flicks. It actually wouldn’t change Jor-El’s motivation for giving him his powers back since in both cases it’s basically Dad giving his son his powers back as a second chance in order to fight a greater evil.
@@peterp2153 Considering they were sent out into space around the same time Kal-El was it's possible, however improbable, they could have drifted to Earth. It would have taken them just as much time as Kal-El to get there if not late by a few years give or take. That said, Donner mentioned the stray missile was what freed them.
@@peterp2153 Lex Luthor is a certifiable genius, with a strong inclination towards insanity. Thus, he’s a master of logistics, probably and statistics. As Superman’s arch nemesis, what Luthor lacks in physical strength and invulnerability, he more than makes up for with intellect. However I agree it is a stretch of suspension of disbelief that Superman would hurl a missile into space that happens to free the Kryptonian criminals-and that Lex has created a device that can track their movement. Like I said though, if anyone could pull it off it’s Lex Luthor.
Well, Brando was a great actor but he was also batshit crazy. Many of his great performances have been directors with the genius to get around his crazy. For example, if I were Francis Ford Coppola I would have had Brando shot and left in the water during the Apocalpse Now shoot. Instead, FFC figures out a genius move to not only salvage Brando's role but turn Brando's failings into a art.
@@jasonbowser5754 and the Salkinds were throwing money like anything. Spent a shit load of money trying to do test shootings in Rome. And they told Donner theyll pay him a cool million to direct the film.
I lost all respect for Miss Teschmacher. Luthor wanted to feed her to the tiger, and Superman saved her (and her mother), yet she is helping Luthor against Superman even after that. Then again, women are attracted to criminals, and things like being good and saving lives don't give them gina tingles. Do women have any psychological capacity beyond gina tingles.
I've never seen this. It's AWESOME. ❤️ The images of Zod, Ursa and Non. But why would Superman have a toilet in the Fortress of Solitude when he doesn't need to go to relieve himself? Lol
Ikr, I heard a toilet flush and the first thought in my mind was "wtf is a toilet doing in the Fortress when Kal does not need to relieve himself as we do since he gets everything he needs to survive from the sun and the atmosphere much like a plant does?"
Superman and Superman II were shot simultaneously. Brando shot all his footage within a few days time and thought nothing more of it until the success of the first movie proved he could make more than just the millions he was paid for his brief appearances. He demanded more money for the footage that had yet been used that would be seen in the second movie. The producers refused and brought back Susannah York to do some of the parent-child scenes that took place in the Fortress of Solitude.
Jesus, Brando really just refused to pronounce Krypton correctly. He pronounces it like that illiterate lois lane thought it was spelled. Krypton.. with a Cri? .. actually it's with a Kry.. pton.
Actually, Brando pronounced the "o" in "Krypton" in much the same way Australians pronounce the "o" in "python". I know because I've watched The Crocodile Hunter so much I know how "python" sounds when an Aussie says it.
Revenge,,. ! This makes Batman vs. Superman look Barney and friends , in comparison. Too bad1978 classic, Donner's part 2 and Returns were to intelligent for the mASSes to appreciate .
Lol, yup. But Jack O'Halloran (Non) isn't much to look at in real life either. I bet he got a bad case of the green eyed monster the first time he laid eyes on Chris Reeve with his fine self, which I would bet dollars to pesos is why he reportedly said some not-so-flattering things about Chris once in an interview. Something about ego, which everyone knows Chris was, in truth, a very humble man.
1:47 Of course he looks "kinda" cute. It's always a very cute guy who breaks the law. Believe me, society is tired of cute guys. Not long ago, the state of Texas executed a very cute guy named "Carl Buntion."
They were suppose to stay in their little jail forever but then they broke free found a peaceful planet conquered it and its been hell ever since... I think the makers of this film are trying to tell us something
Revenge,,. ! This makes Batman vs. Superman look Barney and friends , in comparison. Too bad the 1978 classic, Donner's part 2 and Returns were to intelligent for the mASSes to appreciate .Hats off to Bryan Singer ,the guy deserved better fr his efforts. I saw superman returns like 3 times in the theater . I still watch all 3 films to this day
The novelization of superman return is a cool read if you can get your hands a copy , I highly recommend it ,. The details are awesome ,. Like how Jo Rel met his wife , married and became a Dad later life.
this is one scene im glad they took out . too much exposition . i can understand the poor quality sfx - most likely they would have reshot if things didnt fall apart behind the scenes.
I'll never understand why people consider Gene Hackman to be a better Lex Luthor character wise compared to Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor. Like Hackman's Luthor's plan was to Blow up the west coast so he could sell beachfront real estate so people would live there, and in Superman returns as it's supposed to be the same Superman and Luthor he creats a Kryptonite Island so Superman presumably can't do anything about it and once again so he can sell real estate, maybe also trying to destroy Metropolis at the same time, but seriously Real Estate that's the best you can come up with and Superman was just in the way so Luthor wanted to get rid of him. Whereas Eisnenberg's Luthor on the other hand had childhood trauma and abuse from his father and when Superman comes on the scene while he is insane he essentially blames Superman for having near Godly power but not saving someone like him from, "Daddy's Fists & Abomination's", Eisenberg's Luthor not only wanted Superman dead, but he manipulated Batman and Superman into fighting and nearly killing each other, and when that failed he had a backup plan that worked and he successfully killed Superman. I just don't see how a villain whose goal was to sell beachfront real estate, is better than a villain who has a personal vendetta against Superman, and is also Jealous that one man is superior to him and wants him dead because of it.
Oh, I don't like Gene Hackman's version of Luthor. At the time, Luthor in the comics was a genius scientist and inventor whereas in Donner's Superman movies he is just a property mogul mostly played as a comedic villain, or as comic book critic Peter Sanderson puts it: "a used car salesman wielding nuclear missiles". For me, the best on-screen versions of Lex Luthor are the ones from the DCAU and Smallville.
My gosh, Couldn't Jor'El set up a password or something?
Couldn't Clark lock his door?
Good point.
He used windows 95
He did. It was 12345
"Ph0n3H0m3"
0:59 You never heard of Lex Luthor?
"You never heard of Lex Luthor" 🤣🤣🤣 like Krypton has ever heard of him,such an hilarious line by Gene Hackman 😂
Gene Hackman is fantastic as Lex Luthor in Superman I and II.
@Tim Hands Correct.
Following in his footsteps is Jesse Eisneberg, Rosenbaum, Tom Felton, Kevin Spacey etc.
@@BaySean its John cryer not Felton
Its John Cryer not Tom Felton
Whole cast did a great job in both I and II .. but let’s face it Hackman stole both movies .. and yeah he should’ve won a damn Oscar he deserved it
Lex sticks the crystal in the wrong slot. And gets Don Corleone.
🤣🤣
So they were placed on a Queen album cover, imprisoned for all of eternity.
I knew there had to be a bathroom somewhere in the fortress of solitude!!!😆
Miss Teschmacher still with Lex after his attempt to feed her to the lions in the first film. Why lady?
Cause she is loyal to him.
Women love money
@@seferino as do men.
@@whiteeaglewarrior but women sell themselves for money.
He tried to nuke her mother. What a moron she is!
So many gems in this movie never used.
I may be the first person ever to figure this out but Luthor's line at the end, where he says "Too true to be good" has always bothered me because the saying is supposed to be "too good to be true". Anyway I did some digging and found out that "Too True to Be Good" is the title of a play that George Bernard Shaw wrote. Shaw also wrote "Man and Superman". I'd like to point out that this was one of Donner's scenes that he filmed before he was fired, and the producers had no choice but to keep it in the movie because Gene Hackman refused to return for reshoots. So credit goes to Donner and Tom Mankiewics for this very subtle and clever line of dialogue. Those two men should have never been prevented from completing Superman II.
Interesting, but not surprising. There are many secrets hidden in plain sight in the Donner/Mankiewics Superman. "Man and Superman" promoted the idea that it is women who drive society to produce Nietzsche's Supermen. This piece of knowledge solidifies my observation that Lois had symbolically become the "Super" woman in the Donner depowering scene, where she wears the Superman shirt. It also supports the theme of the movie that giving all control to a woman can only lead to ruin. This leads me to believe that Mankiewicz was decidely against George Bernard Shaw's philosophical beliefs, hence the villain quoting his work. What a wonderful thing art is.
Wait, why was he fired?
@@sebastianmolina5606 The Salkinds were blown away by how successful Superman: The Movie was and they got greedy. They didn’t want to pay Marlon Brando for his work on Superman II, so his scenes were deleted. This upset director Richard Donner and the cast members. Additionally the producers felt that Donner was wasting their money. Finally there were creative differences between the Salkinds and Donner. Richard Lester was brought in as a go between. His job was to mitigate the hostility between the two parties. The Salkinds ended up firing Donner and replacing him with Lester.
@@bratton79 Oh
this should have occurred in Superman I. It would prove his genius that he uses nuclear missiles to distract Superman by making him toss one into space to free the criminals while still (hopefully) getting his beachfront property and it would flow better with the criminals being freed in the start of the film. In the regular cut, the mother says an atomic bomb could release them but the elevator in the Eiffel tower didnt have an atomic bomb but it is implied because of what she said....
Eh, that feels too convoluted. Having the villains freed as an unintended consequence of the nuclear missiles works well but having it be Luthor’s plan stretches logic, since how would he know Supermanwoukd toss them at the exact right place at the exact right moment that they would smash into the Phantom Zone?
What fits better is an old theory I heard, before the Donner Cut was announced and some of its details were only rumored about. The theory went that Jor-El stripped Kal-El of his powers in response to his turning back time, which would have been a violation of Jor-El’s admonishment not to interfere with human history. It’s not a bad concept, though it would mean altering the Clark/Lois story arc and perhaps detract from the heart of the Donner flicks. It actually wouldn’t change Jor-El’s motivation for giving him his powers back since in both cases it’s basically Dad giving his son his powers back as a second chance in order to fight a greater evil.
@@peterp2153 Considering they were sent out into space around the same time Kal-El was it's possible, however improbable, they could have drifted to Earth. It would have taken them just as much time as Kal-El to get there if not late by a few years give or take. That said, Donner mentioned the stray missile was what freed them.
The Eiffel Tower had that hydrogen bomb, remember? It was about to go off when Superman threw it into space.
@@sha11235 the Richard Donner cut used the missile from S1 to blow up the phantom zone.
@@peterp2153 Lex Luthor is a certifiable genius, with a strong inclination towards insanity. Thus, he’s a master of logistics, probably and statistics. As Superman’s arch nemesis, what Luthor lacks in physical strength and invulnerability, he more than makes up for with intellect. However I agree it is a stretch of suspension of disbelief that Superman would hurl a missile into space that happens to free the Kryptonian criminals-and that Lex has created a device that can track their movement. Like I said though, if anyone could pull it off it’s Lex Luthor.
The Fortress of Solitude has a toilet. Hmmm...super-flush?
Al Cd that brings up a number of questions regarding Superman's restroom.
The room's official name is "The Fortress of Soliturd"
got to get rid of those super turds and super pisses somehow.
@@davedee7521 Dumb, stupid "joke"
Maybe Supes would want a guest to have access to the proper facilities. Did y'all ever think of that?
Gene is just hilarious in this
Gene Hackman and Marlon Brando in the same season, wow.
Instead we got Michael Shannon and Russell Crowe.
Not amazing, but def great choices
Kind of an insane choice to hire one of the greatest actors ever and then cut him completely out of your finished movie...
Steve by cutting him, they voided his 11% gross of the film, which he got for the 1st and that was unheard of back then.
He wasn't cut out of Superman II, what are you talking about?
PoxyBear We are talking about Brando, not Hackman. Brando was not in the theatrical release
Well, Brando was a great actor but he was also batshit crazy. Many of his great performances have been directors with the genius to get around his crazy. For example, if I were Francis Ford Coppola I would have had Brando shot and left in the water during the Apocalpse Now shoot. Instead, FFC figures out a genius move to not only salvage Brando's role but turn Brando's failings into a art.
@@jasonbowser5754 and the Salkinds were throwing money like anything. Spent a shit load of money trying to do test shootings in Rome. And they told Donner theyll pay him a cool million to direct the film.
I lost all respect for Miss Teschmacher. Luthor wanted to feed her to the tiger, and Superman saved her (and her mother), yet she is helping Luthor against Superman even after that.
Then again, women are attracted to criminals, and things like being good and saving lives don't give them gina tingles. Do women have any psychological capacity beyond gina tingles.
Superman really needs to lock the front door....least Lex Luthor could just walk in
Give Khan Noonien Singh the same powers as Superman, and you get General Zod.
I didn't know the fortress of solitude had good plumbing
I preferred the line "I found it!" to the sound of flushing.
I wonder what happened to miss tessmacher, after the events of Superman 2.
"No chance for parole?" You edited out the best parts.
It always bothered me Miss Tessmocker just disappointed after this scene with no explanation
You mean disappeared? Or... You didn’t get to see her ass again, maybe?🤪
There's a scene with her and Lex in the Arctic leaving the Fortress of Solitude after this scene that didn't get used in the Donner Cut.
Maybe that Krypton toilet was more powerful than we thought?
For me: most of it was a deleted scene. A cut, literally!
She found the toilet.
Did someone flush a toilet right at the end?
And I think I know who found the bathroom. Miss Tessmacher.
Well she ask where the bathroom is
I thought Superman 2's script was campy. :( Loved the first film.
Diane Joyner it was rewritten after Donner was fired
Valerie Perrine,so gorgeous
The shot of General Zod I think is the same footage in the opening of the Lester cut when Jor-El is talking to him.
Uhh It's not Jor-El. I'm sure it was a Kryptonian elder (portrayed by the late John Hollis)
What the fuck?
So in Superman Returns he just made his exact same plan of Superman 2?
That is so lame?
Lol enlightened planet we'll assume goes on kindness. We have no death penalty, but will send them to a type of hell for all eternity.
I've never seen this. It's AWESOME. ❤️ The images of Zod, Ursa and Non. But why would Superman have a toilet in the Fortress of Solitude when he doesn't need to go to relieve himself? Lol
Where did you see he doesn’t use the facilities?
bro Superman still needs to pee
Ikr, I heard a toilet flush and the first thought in my mind was "wtf is a toilet doing in the Fortress when Kal does not need to relieve himself as we do since he gets everything he needs to survive from the sun and the atmosphere much like a plant does?"
What a great infomercial for the death penalty. Would have saved everyone alot of trouble. You can be too nice.
How come these scenes were reshot without Marlon Brando? I thought he was never involved in the production.
Superman and Superman II were shot simultaneously. Brando shot all his footage within a few days time and thought nothing more of it until the success of the first movie proved he could make more than just the millions he was paid for his brief appearances. He demanded more money for the footage that had yet been used that would be seen in the second movie. The producers refused and brought back Susannah York to do some of the parent-child scenes that took place in the Fortress of Solitude.
Fascinating! Thank you very much.
Odysseus Rex the producers were so cheap.
@@austinpearce5442 No, Brando was ludicrously expensive. Wanting millions for a days work.
@@jamesgrist1101 true I guess but the salkinds are not innocent neither. They initially throwing money down the toilet
Si existiera un tio asi por lo menos seria divertido
Now this is how you do exposition!
Currently watching the Donner cut. How the hell did Luthor know the location of the fortress?
He put an Apple Airtag in Superman’s cape
That's our future. Talking to AI Holograms
Jesus, Brando really just refused to pronounce Krypton correctly. He pronounces it like that illiterate lois lane thought it was spelled. Krypton.. with a Cri? .. actually it's with a Kry.. pton.
And Luthor being pronounced as Lu-ther instead of Lu-thor.
Actually, Brando pronounced the "o" in "Krypton" in much the same way Australians pronounce the "o" in "python". I know because I've watched The Crocodile Hunter so much I know how "python" sounds when an Aussie says it.
There was a Toilet??? Wtf? I don’t remember that.
I love it
1:30 Wow!
Revenge,,. ! This makes Batman vs. Superman look Barney and friends , in comparison. Too bad1978 classic, Donner's part 2 and Returns were to intelligent for the mASSes to appreciate .
Hi
Non sure looks young there. Poor guy sure got hit with the ugly stick, didn't he?
Dude I miss your mom.
Lol, yup. But Jack O'Halloran (Non) isn't much to look at in real life either. I bet he got a bad case of the green eyed monster the first time he laid eyes on Chris Reeve with his fine self, which I would bet dollars to pesos is why he reportedly said some not-so-flattering things about Chris once in an interview. Something about ego, which everyone knows Chris was, in truth, a very humble man.
1:47 Of course he looks "kinda" cute. It's always a very cute guy who breaks the law. Believe me, society is tired of cute guys. Not long ago, the state of Texas executed a very cute guy named "Carl Buntion."
Miss tessmacher!!!
Why would Miss. Techmacher help Lex escape after Lex almost killed her mother and what happened to her later in the film?
U have spent years and years fantasisizing about Miss Teschmacher... I shall continue to do so...
They were suppose to stay in their little jail forever but then they broke free found a peaceful planet conquered it and its been hell ever since... I think the makers of this film are trying to tell us something
This is From Superman , With The Phantom Zone, With The Kryptonians,in Superman 2
Kryptonian MST3K
I wish they had taken the time to edit the Jor-El footage to match the first movie, where it has kind of a silvery, ethereal appearance.
Big giant head.
Revenge,,. ! This makes Batman vs. Superman look Barney and friends , in comparison. Too bad the 1978 classic, Donner's part 2 and Returns were to intelligent for the mASSes to appreciate .Hats off to Bryan Singer ,the guy deserved better fr his efforts. I saw superman returns like 3 times in the theater . I still watch all 3 films to this day
The novelization of superman return is a cool read if you can get your hands a copy , I highly recommend it ,. The details are awesome ,. Like how Jo Rel met his wife , married and became a Dad later life.
I wonder why miss Tessamacher disappears after this scene
Same VFX as The Flash (2023) 😅
“Miss TeschMACHER??!!”
The phantom zone is "The abyss" that all the sons of the true God fear. Well, not Jesus
Those of us in Christ don't fear anything, because fear has to do with punishment, and perfect love casts out all fear.
Non looks terrifying here.
Fantastic , ITS FANTASTIC!!
This scene was never in the film. No way
This is the richard donner cut of Superman ii. Not the richard lester comedic theateratrical version of superman ii.
#👌👍
Unbelievable technology, but no passwords.
Hollywood, the biggest crap factory on earth.
this is one scene im glad they took out . too much exposition . i can understand the poor quality sfx - most likely they would have reshot if things didnt fall apart behind the scenes.
I'll never understand why people consider Gene Hackman to be a better Lex Luthor character wise compared to Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor.
Like Hackman's Luthor's plan was to Blow up the west coast so he could sell beachfront real estate so people would live there, and in Superman returns as it's supposed to be the same Superman and Luthor he creats a Kryptonite Island so Superman presumably can't do anything about it and once again so he can sell real estate, maybe also trying to destroy Metropolis at the same time, but seriously Real Estate that's the best you can come up with and Superman was just in the way so Luthor wanted to get rid of him.
Whereas Eisnenberg's Luthor on the other hand had childhood trauma and abuse from his father and when Superman comes on the scene while he is insane he essentially blames Superman for having near Godly power but not saving someone like him from, "Daddy's Fists & Abomination's", Eisenberg's Luthor not only wanted Superman dead, but he manipulated Batman and Superman into fighting and nearly killing each other, and when that failed he had a backup plan that worked and he successfully killed Superman.
I just don't see how a villain whose goal was to sell beachfront real estate, is better than a villain who has a personal vendetta against Superman, and is also Jealous that one man is superior to him and wants him dead because of it.
That's the writing side. But the acting side,gene is better
Oh, I don't like Gene Hackman's version of Luthor. At the time, Luthor in the comics was a genius scientist and inventor whereas in Donner's Superman movies he is just a property mogul mostly played as a comedic villain, or as comic book critic Peter Sanderson puts it: "a used car salesman wielding nuclear missiles". For me, the best on-screen versions of Lex Luthor are the ones from the DCAU and Smallville.
Hack-MAN!!!!!!!