its not dying. its already dead. only casual pvp game nowadays is tf2. literally JUST tf2. every other game is trying to be the "Next big competitive hit" because of how much god damn money they make.
@ninokaah1591 ye i forgot about the swordfighting games like mordhau and i agree! I was only looking through shooters and mobas and totally forgor about those games lol. But there still can be some toxic people like in any game if you're sweaty enough. Just like in tf2.
@davidklemen5264 Oh yeah there's definetly some bad apples on Mordhau! Also I think what's holding back the melee slashers is the relatively high skill floor compared to other types of games. But once you know the fundamentals and play for a bit it's fun. Shame tf2 is the only real casual experience left for pvp. I love tf2, more game developers should take note
Demo cartoonishly look behind, waits a second for his brain to figure out you're on the opposite team. You both miss every shot point blank and then blow up on your own grenade. I don't think any modern game have the same interactions.
Casual is dying so hard that tf2 is the only game that keep the high player count for over 17 years and every other game with huge restriction competitive stuff is dying each year.
Casual TF2 killed the game hard for me, played 6k hours from 2008-2016. I remember when there were no valve servers and you just played your favorite community servers, I remember when we did get Valve servers and quickplay for a vanilla experience. In 2016 they removed Vanilla TF2; no more map rotation, no more team scramble, no more spectator mode, no more alltalk, no more adhoc connections. I have only played the game like 100 hours since Meet your Match, mostly during Jungle Inferno when I had a bunch of contests to take my mind off the misery of casual mode. Once I finished all my contracts it hit me, the loop of casual is 1. get put into a match late on the losing team, 2. lose after getting to play for like 2 minutes max, 3. everyone leaves after the end of the match because the vote takes too long so you requeue and start the casual cycle all again. I just want quickplay back man, I want vanilla TF2 back.
Honestly, I consider it the "Competitive" Casual at this point since it came out due to them trying to make the competitive scene bigger. As problematic quick play was, it is still by far better than the "Casual" we have now. I still miss quickplay as it was my go to way in finding a random map on a gamemode I want to play.
It is not just casual PVP, tryhards and hardcores are also trying to force their mindset into PVE and many singleplayer games as well, especially in the shooting genre. It really feels like people nowadays cannot enjoy a game if it is not a sweatfest that must be taken as seriously as a job.
As a newer gamer, I will tell you from experience that TF2 is among the last casual FPS games out there. Every new FPS that comes is some Compie 6v6 slop with some kind of SBMM system that forces you to stay to the very end. There's nothing like TF2 anymore, it's like an endangered species.
> Make video about how competitive players are trying to force their standards on casual players > Look in comments > Competitive players trying to force their standards on casual players
The majority of competitive players started out casual and understand what casual is and why it should stay casual, they hold no disdain against this portion of the community and play casually as well. To represent the vocal minority within the minority as if they're the norm is a form of strawmanning.
Tf2 is probably the only shooter right now where in a single match you can have the most tryhard players having the 1 vs 1 of their lives and funny silly shovel flying man trying to hit people. Tf2 has a place for competitive players ( hell , i played and loved highlander format ) , and it can coexist with a casual gamemode
@@thefierycharmeleon164 How about an update that fixes it's shortcomings like fix some weapons, fight harder against the bots and maybe even port it to source 2 even if just for bringing the game to the spotlight again
@@ratman2580 I mean it sucks to be on the receiving end of it but some, myself included, like the randomness of luck to our benefit that we can stomach its unfairness.
Every game currently being released is trying to be the next "x", which is unfortunate because "x" is always a casual game turned comp game by the vocal minority of players. A shame
So true bestie, game devs dont cater to the majority of people playing the game and giving them money, theyre deliberately catering to the smallest playerbase and killing their games for no reason
I really like this video. From the title I thought it'd be some doomer fearmongering but I was pleasantly disproven. TF2 Casual is one of the only gamemodes I've played that deserves the title of Casual and will always reel me back in after any poor experiences with other games and their 'Casual' modes. I remember years ago that whenever I caught wind of "Random crits/random bullet spread = bad" being thrown around as evils that must be purged that it was just an instance of people misunderstanding what makes TF2 what it is. Sure, disable them on your own servers if they're THAT bad (which they objectively aren't) but don't force everyone else to feel the same way. Games need to be more fun, free and loose nowadays I reckon (hot take). Good video :)
tf2 casual is anticasual because it was designed to be training grounds for 6v6. real casual didnt have a round limit, let you pick teams and spectate, had team scramble and didnt display the status of everyone on your team and the enemys team at all times (that info was added to help with competitive)
Also casual existed before the thought of tf2 being competitive, it was called quickplay. Casual was a means to try and modernize the quickplay system.
@@AltF4Unavailable quickplay and casual were vastly different. casual on release didnt let you pick maps like it does now, penalized you for leaving and had the same elo system as csgo matchmaking. its very clear what they were trying to do with it. thankfully they got enough backlash for them to half-revert it
bro this video is so good! i laughed, i cried, i appreciate the bright screen warning you nailed it! sometimes we just wanna have some fun with like minded peeps
comp player here. i do hate that the fact everytime i go casual i don't wanna play like a sweaty guy i just wanna enjoy some game with out being there 101%
We have to remember that tf2 comes from a bygone era of multiplayer shooters. Back in 2007 there were no official servers, only community servers. A lot of them hosted fun/party maps like mario kart. PVP games back then were designed to be fun first, not competitive. E-sports barely existed. Of course, valve tried to modernize the game as time went on to fit the current gaming landscape, but tf2's essence of being a virtual playground to have fun with other people still remain. That's what makes it different.
Very well done video! I have been feeling similarly about the state of casual in games, wish there were more fps casual options that aren't tf2, and this is coming from someone who has 2,000+ hours. Fantastic point at 8:52 felt that. That sense of freedom, that sense of true relaxation is something I have only been able to get from TF2, I want a new experience, I want new weapons, I want a new game.
As someone who hates random crits in pretty much every way possible (and RNG mechanics in general), I'm interested in seeing your perspective on random crits. My biggest problem with random crits is not just because their intended design purpose doesn't actually work, but also because random x3 damage with no fall off really sucks. But, I'm interested in seeing your perspective with an open mind.
it's weird to think that comp players were the ones who ruined the game with mym when the most controversial changes from 2016-2018 were casual replacing quickplay, which nobody wanted, and the jungle inferno nerfs to items, which valve never stated were a result of competitive community feedback. in fact they say the opposite, that changes to items were a result of feedback of players of all skill levels, with items like the base jumper being nerfed because of what skilled players that got good with it were able to do (these players were only found in pubs btw since the item was never used in comp). also, ironically one of the biggest failures of the in-game comp mode was valve just actively not listening to feedback from the comp community during the beta tests
valve never cared about the comp community and only wanted their advice not to satisfy them, but to make the best competitive mode tf2 could have, thus turning it into their 3rd esports cashcow. the signs were already there, they even added csgo skins to tf2 thinking it would generate similar revenue. valve lost sight of what tf2 was and wanted to milk it
i think it's not completely true to say this because opinions like "the GRU is busted because it allows a heavy to get to mid quickly" was an opinion that was spread around comp-focused tf2 players for a long time and literally no casual cared about this. some of the changes were definitely made with the competitive community in mind.
Umm Valve dedicated all of those updates with the comp scene in mind cause comp players kept crying about how they had no support from Valve and how they wanted their own pug/scrim site bs and weapon changes noone cares about or team restrictions that don't matter, go comp go broke
I don't know why as a society allowed games to become second jobs, what happened to just playing because is fun, even singleplayer games adopted that style for some reason, sad honestly
15:27 While I haven’t played those servers much myself, Id disagree that uncletopia became really sweaty because of the removal of random crits, random spread, its own map pool and team scrambles. None of these changes aside from class limits seem heavily competitive oriented enough to cause such a big change in player base to me. Imo I think it may have more to do with the fact that if you’re a fan of uncle dane, you’ve probably watched him a lot and thus played the game a lot. Not to mention if you fill servers up with exclusively good players, it’s way harder for less skilled players to stay, creating a cycle where you don’t get newer players and thus create a more tryhard environment. Tl;dr I don’t think uncletopia being unwelcoming is caused by those small changes, as it is the context of the people that would be getting into uncletopia I view the more likely cause. Good video though. I have some other small disagreements as someone who plays both casually and competitively, but overall pretty good man keep it up
tbh I don't find uncletopia that tryhard, it's like casual but a little more focused on the objective than usual. Feels as tryhard as cs2 competitive (unranked)
Uncletopia is dog water. While I prefer most of the changes, I hate having class limits and pub timers, shit’s annoying. And the player are obnoxious as hell. Competitive dimwits and degenerates ruining my fun, and this stupid ass censorship and monetization with the same map pools over and over again. I got banned for being a said “tryhard” because some friendly went apeshit when I dominated him. Apparently he had connections with a mod that got me reported. And do not get me started on the same people I see in every server, they are annoying as hell to fight and play with. This is not me being a casual nerd, I’m just an average pub stomper with too many hours.
Good point, most people there just want to get better at the game, but during the worst of the bot crisis, most people had to go there, however, never in my life have I been yelled for not doing something a medic wanted me to do and I wasn't playing bad i was een topscoring, just needed a 4 second break There are also toxic tryhards on casual who like to yell at people but that¿s the minority, on uncletopia it was the majority and a lot of people had to go there just to play the game without bots, let's say that being yelled at and playing the same 4-5 payload maps wants make you can the game and never touch it again. 4 out five games you had raging idiots yelling at people on uncletopia, and the one time where we just had good casual players, but on casual that's just the norm. Some teenagers need a hobby outside of tf2 💀
Yeah I’d love to play TF2 as a silly casual where I dance in the corner, yeah I’d love to play Tf2 as a casual shooter and do the objective. What I don’t like to deal with is join a game, get stomped by NightHawkXX the 3000+ hour soldier main who uses the original, gunboats and whip for the fifth time in a row. I’d love to be the anchor of the team by being heavy to rally everyone and push forward to victory, but here comes this MrSwipez fanboy who interp abuses with the Kunai and spams the dead ringer. I’d like to play TF2 for what it is, a fun, creative, wacky and exciting shooter, but it’s just hard to do that when so many players take this game so much more seriously than me and others that it just creates an loop of losing, a burnout. I’d probably play this game for maybe the winter and summer events and definitely Scream Fortress.
the game has been out a long time and isn't the go-to first free game new pc gamers download any more. the well of fresh installs has dried up for years since fortnite blew up and the rise of free hero shooters it's only natural that even in casual you're now more likely to come across players with thousands upon thousands of hours that even with them just playing casually by their standards, ends up with them stomping valve servers
I think the only way to casually have fun in tf2 is to be casually as good as the other players. The problem with that is the other players often have 5000 hours of constant practice I have nearly 2000 myself and I'm still just "pretty alright" at the game most of the time
Ngl really good video, I really dont have much to say that wouldn't be echoing and just commenting in hopes that it'll do smth to the algorithm. Pretty underrated stuff, would've expected to see thousands of subs rather than under 1k
I agree with you and what you highlighted in this video is just the peak of the iceberg. Like, the primary reason why i hate the competitive community now (especially you, UncelDan) is because they acted like a radical cult. Zealously repeating there proganda and being obviously blind or ignorant to the fact that gameing is more then a sport and that a game with a PvP compound, does not have to be competitive in nature. They probably where vindicated by E-Sport becoming a Mainstream Trend after 2010, aswell as general radicalisation happening everywhere (Rise of the Feminazi), especially on the Internet (Social Media). The truth is, it was all just a gaint industry push by people like bobby kotick. Cause E-Sport games are more profitable then casual games. Most gamers don´t want competitive play primarily. Want prove ? Meet your Match: Lowest playercount ever recorded. Summer 2023 Update: Highest ever recorded playercount. People don´t want competitive stress, they want casual fun. I will always remember TF2s competitive community as the community who almost killed there game in a ritualistic blood sacrifice, believing that everything will be better afterwards.
i do know this is an opinionated video, but talking about 6s and its bans in a negative light & then acting as if it wasn't valve that made the changes to the weapons afterwards is a little bit silly. the bans in play in tf2's 6s are only significant in not making one class the objectively best class in the game (scout). off-classing is still done *a lot* and encouraged, but the nature of tf2 and its mechanics makes it an extremely mobile game, and classes that can't keep up with that mobility are not effective. sniper used to be a mainstay, but people got better and outpaced it. heavy, spy, pyro, engineer, and sniper simply cannot keep up and need to make minimal mistakes to get anything done. these players are not forcing this onto any other players, valve's own competitive mode, which came out before some weapon nerfs (such as the base jumper nerf in 2017, while competitive released in 2016), still allows players to use these weapons freely, with any team composition they want. you are undermining why the base jumper got nerfed for a competitive setting and thats because it truly was a broken weapon, players could spam down from above for free and drop & redeploy to dodge any and every projectile that came their way. you then think "oh then you can just play sniper to counter said base jumper." but then that goes back to the previous point of sniper being outpaced by the other classes, and you cant guarantee that someone goes to every mid fight (which determines who gets the momentum going into the rest of the round) that the enemy soldier will bring base jumper. thats the type of weapon that *should* be banned or, in valve's decision, nerfed, regardless of if you just want to sit in the sky and do nothing useful in casual modes. a weapon on a class thats already really strong forcing the enemies into very specific counterplay that they can easily thwart by unequipping the weapon, rendering one team at a disadvantage just by pressing a few buttons in a menu. some weapons were nerfed undeservingly, but i did just want to bring up the base jumper point. you are right that tf2 has a very casual playerbase, but i'd argue there are plenty of other games, specifically console based shooters like call of duty & battlefield that have similar casual playerbases. all 3 games have players who min max and try really hard. they all also have players who barely know what they're doing & nobody gives a shit if they do or don't besides a few players. tf2 just has the social & goofy side of it, while the other 2 are just realistic gun guys. this also isn't even necessarily an issue, competitive games generate more buzz which also can gain the companies more revenue (see counterstrike vs tf2. counterstrike is fundamentally older than tf2 and barely changed mechanically, but only boomed in popularity after it pushed for a more competitive focus), but we still have plenty of social experiences that can be had in so many games. roblox, tf2, fortnite creative, and then on the social side of things there vrchat and stuff like "webfishing" & even more than that. a game doesn't need to be gargantuan in size for it to be "alive." tf2 hasn't gone anywhere, and i don't think it will go anywhere soon, and if thats what players prefer & want to flock to then that is something they can easily do. youtubers & influencers who pushed for forced competitive changes are cringe though.
tf2 isnt a mobility game and wasnt designed as such, in fact it is slowed down compared to tfc and qtf and was made into a chokepoint pushing simulator, which is what the intended experience of 12v12 ends up being. core tf2 isnt fast paced, it creates the illusion of fast pace by having a lot of people doing a lot of stuff at the same time. 6s is fast, tf2 isnt. 6s is designed to be as fast paced as possible because 1. its more fun that way 2. it ended up favoring the generalists, which happen to have the most mobility and i suppose that is a part of what makes a generalist a generalist, and the generalists are meta because you cant make up for the weaknesses of a specialist like you could on a team of 12, and even if you could, said specialists only exist to slow down the game which further points to the games inherent slow nature. point is, 6s is a fundamentally different experience and a mere attempt at turning the hypercasual mess that even has a designated noob class into a competitive game the base jumper perfectly highlights the weakness of 6s. a weapon that would normally be countered by classes that would normally be present on a larger team, or by spamfire in general, becomes incredibly annoying to deal with because said classes arent present and theres not enough people to spamfire. other weapons like that are the quick fix, sydney sleeper and scout as a whole bro counter strike was like the biggest fps on the planet outside the us before csgo even came out, it was in every internet cafe, fym it got big because of csgo going comp
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 counter-strike was a big game but it had a boom in popularity with people who weren’t originally pc gamers. that followed huge competitive updates, including streamed majors that were hype as fuck for people tuning in for the first time. this is in part because it was a game to compete in but also just a mass amount of people moving to PC gaming in the middle 2010s. you are right, 6s is fast paced. my wording was not perfect but that is what i meant.
first paragraph focuses completely on comp and like everyone says not everyone plays comp. the base jumper doesn't deserve a nerf because "it's too op in mid fights" or some shit literally no one cares about that except comp players. why would you ruin a weapon for the majority of the playerbase because of a minority. so no, the base jumper nerf was as bad as the others and is one of the examples why MYM sucks. "other games also have players who barely know what they're doing & nobody gives a shit if they do or don't besides a few players." i'd say this isn't true for a lot of games nowadays. because of matchmaking systems, team roles, and team sizes it matters a lot more if someone on the team is goofing off and i've noticed in fps circles people tend to really get annoyed when people don't do their jobs. (marvel rivals has a lot of people complaining about everyone locking in duelist for example).
It's important to remember from what time period mym came from. It was from a time when Overwatch blew the fuck up with it's casual nature and huge competitive side so it was only natural for Valve to capitalise with their game which practically was the father of Ow that already had an unofficial comp scene. And it's not like Valve is new to comp as they had cs go tournaments that sometimes were even broadcasted on television. This video too is a product of it's time as people are more tired than ever of new comp games that will surely be the next hit being released every month. Me personally like goofing around with bunch of hoovies and occasionally getting serious to hit cool airshots with pipes so I don't really have a stake in either side.
mym was being developed in like 2014, it wasnt made in response to overwatch, it was made because valve thought they could have another esports giant money generator under their belt. thats why they added contracts (like csgo operations), skins (like csgo skins), and matchmaking (like csgo). first they killed the artstyle for revenue, then they killed the game for a bit
i think the biggest evidence of casual dying is the constant push for teams of 6 why the hell would anyone think 6 random gamers are going to have any coordination, now because of how little the team size is there's no falling back on anyone like how that happens with 12v12. if someone doesn't play their role perfectly or isn't good as anyone it's a huge disadvantage due to losing someone in such a small team. it also means team compositions are way more and how the hell do you get random people to play a good team composition without forcing them? there's little wiggle room in your choices and both casual and comp players hate this resulting in everyone having a bad time and blaming their team. you're seeing this with marvel rivals now everyone is complaining about how everyone is just playing dps but of *course* everyone wants to play dps. you play a game like mrivals because you want to play as your favorite superhero not because you want to play the perfect team comp to win. obviously these problems can happen in tf2 but it takes more people to *really* throw off a team's comp because of the larger teams.
i hate how competetivisation of video games often disincentivises people from playing the game how they would like to and make you want to play meta instead, be it your teammates sending you death threats over not playing correctly or feeling like you are ruining others time by griefing them
Overwatch was casual when it came out, and within a year its balance changes had strayed so far from what was most fun, the inability to have more than 1 of the same character really impacted the casualness of quickplay. I still played OW for quite a while but it was never as fun. Sigh I hate blizzard
I think people are talking past each other when they say ‘casual’. Like most people go with casual is ‘playing how you want’ but that can range from being a friendly, not playing the objective, trying two win, topscoring, brain off fragging, learnjng two get good at the game, literally just doing casual matchmaking etc. and with that vagueness and contradictory expectations you can project a lot of things as ‘not casual’ and ‘fourcing their mindset’. Like heck my casual enjoyment of tf2 is getting good with scout, working with my team as medic, and roleplaying Gordon freeman the battle med. Is that tryhard? Who knows, ask the other players, I’m just having fun. Would my experience be made worse without random kritz, random damage spread, random bullet spread, and other mechanics people say makes tf2 casual? Probably not. Also comp players really aren’t a secret cabal that influences valve’s balancing decisions, they’re just normal tf2 players. Valve just sucks at balancing weapons, even prior two when there were official competitive leagues (like remember when they gave every weapon with no random kritz a -25% damage penalty). And this is a whole other conversation but without weapon bans theoretically you have more options but practically you have less, since people want two win they’ll pick the best options, and if 1 option when used effectively is far better than the others (like the diamondback) or does something that puts your team at a disadvantage if they don’t use it (mad milk/cow mangler), then you practically have less options two choose from despite having more.
I remember being recommended uncletopia as this "better casual" about a year after I started playing, played 6 rounds all of which were steam rolls and only one where I was on the rolling team where I never saw a single enemy and the match lasted 3 minutes, and then I blacklisted every one of the servers.
This video opened my eyes and broke my heart. I too have passion for the game and I always thought my passion was positive, showing people the things that weapons can do, and some things they can do to get better at the game. Now i see that people aren't not knowing of what weapons do and aren't going to care about what i find optimal strategy against the enemy as I thought they are just playing to do what they like and be silly and instead of respecting that wish i was making them torn apart. Thank you for helping me see in a way i couldn't, we all need that every once in a while, I'll just let the sillies happen regardless of how silly they may seem.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to try your hardest to win, the problem (like you said) is how hard are you willing to push want you want to achieve that even if end up ruining everyone else's day Enjoy the game in both ways. Find a balance between the best of both worlds, the most important thing is that everyone is having fun - Regardless if in the end you won or lost the match
If you want the game while respecting it, play however you want. If you don't go "hey go medic or we lose" and get mad after they don't go medic, then ur good
5:20 truer words have never been spoken. Random bullet spread can leave and I don't think anyone would complain. Random crits feel good to hit but not receive. Class limits should NEVER be implemented in the base game, the reason they exist is because it's really frustrating when you are trying your hardest to win, and there's 4 spies or snipers and no medic.
it's a hill I'm willing to die on, but I fuckin LOVE random crits. genuinely. they're funny as hell, iconic to TF2 as a whole, and maybe they're not "fair and balanced", but they create a sort of tension or anticipation during fights that I haven't found in any other game. they almost force you to take a step back, say "wow that was dumb", and then laugh it off and keep playing this stupid little hat game. there's always a chance that the topscorer you're desperately fighting against for your life is spontaneously obliterated, letting you come out victorious in a scenario you otherwise never would've survived. It keeps you humble. no matter your skill level, sometimes things are just out of your hands, and that's honestly pretty cool. you CAN'T optimize random crits. they're not designed to be, and that's okay. I can understand the other perspective, though. game balance is a complex issue in general, and when there's a mechanic in place that intentionally unbalances gameplay, people get touchy. what baffles me most, though, is that people are still pushing for these balance changes today as if the game is done for without them. we still play tf2 as it is, don't we? there's still something charming and ridiculous about it BECAUSE of all its design flaws and its long and convoluted history as a pvp shooter. You've got community servers right there, where you can change up the game's balance as you find most enjoyable. there's no shame in that; what there IS shame in, though, is acting like the way YOU enjoy the game is the BEST way, and then forcing that onto other people via balance updates. 10/10 video, wish more people understood that there's not an "intended way" to play TF2 anymore. it doesn't exist. you can't stick every player in a box and expect to not have any players feel alienated. it's a 17 year old game; I can guarantee you that whatever the original developers had in mind, it wasn't modern TF2. That's cool, though. to be loved is to be changed by nature. that's just how it is.
what's funny is that when i was a kid, i saw casual as THE competetive tf2 gamemode. why? because the objectiveless community servers were even more casual, and i never played actual comp
Man, now i really need to expedite a video im making talking about casual apex. Id really like it if youd check it out when it comes out. That said, i came out of that script with the idea that a casual game is one where minimal or no time commitment is needed to play the game. If a game has too much downtime from the fun aspects or considerable time is needed to play the game, it stops being casual for lack of accessibility. One point i bring up is fighting games, as competitive as they are and structured, can still be enjoyed casually.
its not competitive players' fault for unprepared, underdeveloped and ultimately incompetently ran updates from valve from beta to launch, there were no meaningful changes to matchmaking. not even incredibly obvious "this is fucking broken i cant play the game" changes. and NOBODY called for the removal of quickplay.
Honestly, I just hop into tf2 to have casual fun, and casual mode gets it done for me! I don’t care how good I do, I just enjoy the vibe of the game. Casual should’ve been better but I just don’t feel the need to complain about it.
There was a game just as casual as TF2 in the early 2010's called Loadout. It was something akin to a phenome during its early run. But, Sony worked out a deal with its developer and the game was ported to the PS4 and all updates were focused on the PS4, no one played it over there and then after a couple years the whole game was abandonded.
it tires me that new games require you to play seriously to not leave the match and to log in every damn day for extra cosmetic or stuff they give you or battle passes. tf2 is more of an relaxed experience that i can play 2 hours or 10 minutes and have fun while playing it . Bring back tf2 to the pre meet your match update
I truly agree with what you say in this video. everything. In my opinion, This is truly the meaning of casual. I hope this video goes viral and everybody see the light of what it mean to be a casual game. Thank u for making the video m8.
@ u have to understand the meaning of play. Play can differ from individuals because of some people’s different opinions. But the definition states that play mean to have fun. Play can also used as sports. Which means that play can take in from both ways. So your claim is considered incorrect. If is entertaining for others, then it is considered play.
they even played into the joke of TF2 being a hat collecting game with a fps as a bonus with the name of one of the official bots. people just want to look how they want; cool, goofy, serious, ugly, it doesn't matter because there's a billion cosmetic combination that a lot of games don't use in favor of just skins. (Fortnite comes to mind) TF2 has basically became a game of NFTs with how the market works lol its not OVERLY serious because thats just what fans of TF2 want. and TF2 fans are called that because there isn't a game LIKE TF2 enough to justify switching over. also, I like the way you structure your videos. even if they are just ramblings; they're fun to listen to.
Tf2 will never be balanced enough to be competitive. If we were to shift to competitive, every class and weapon would be nerfed to high hell. I’m an average pub stomper with 7000 hours and I generally hate Comp players because their egos are way above sticking to the same meta and weapons over and over again. I hate random crits because it eliminates skill expression, but I still stand on Tf2 being the perfect game. It’s casual, it’s chaotic, it tests you to improve yourself.
the team fortress formula was designed in a time where the notion of balance was "everyone has to have fun". hell, pyro exists just so less skilled players could have fun, thats why he was in qtf, in tfc, and thats why valve kept him like that for tf2 as well. they wanted a hypercasual side dish in their pc gaming gateway, the orange box
I have 1.5K hours and I still like random crits, even when I die to them. They just feel like another obstacle to overcome and look out for on the wacky, unpredictable battlefield that is TF2
I have played TF2 for half my life and while I agree with a lot of the points made in this video, I definitely disagree with a bunch as well. Here's my two cents: On the topic of "Casual" gamemodes dying across all multiplayer media, I can empathize with the fact it leaves people alienated. In the case of TF2, I definitely lean more towards the Casual side, despite partaking in lots of competitive oriented environments (whether community or valve comp) in the past. I just don't see a reason to, in laymen terms, sweat my ass off in games anymore. I also understand the fact that Casual can oftentimes feel like 12v12 competitive but this concept is inherently wrong because that's simply not TF2's problem. TF2 is a team based game, meaning there's a lot more variables to what makes a certain match feel more competitive than another. Casual's inherent lack of rating based matchmaking is what oftentimes leads in matches feeling "too sweaty". You could be put in a situation where you're stuck on the losing side, unable to climb back up even if your team's individual capabilities are relatively strong, all because it's a team based game. Of course, there are also many times where you're simply gonna be put against ultra-unusual-professional-killstreak-mega-cyber-athletes, but this rarely matters much, since it's at most 6 people partied up together, strictly. A full team of 12 using their full power can easily take over. I know that a point could be made to counter this ideology, using the same logic, but it's simply what I said, the average TF2 match has too many variables that determine the outcome and gameplay feel. Additionally, gaming has now become a lot more mainstream, resulting in the average skill of individuals being significantly raised compared to the past. Less players are going to be confused about complex game mechanics when they're well documented and easily accessible. So, that being said, while I know it's hard, sometimes you really just need to ask yourself what you find fun in a videogame. If any game is becoming a chore or results in you being upset, you should simply quit doing what you're doing. I myself don't boot up TF2 much anymore (too preoccupied playing Deadlock ATM), but I still enjoy gaming just as much as I did back in the day. Try experimenting more, finding your niche, whether that be different modes of gameplay (community servers are a start) or entirely different experiences altogether. Be mindful and have fun. Never let yourself think that someone else can define your fun (internet micro-celebs and whatnot).
Casual was always horrible and not only that, I can't play with my wife because the wait to find some server is 15-17 minutes, before we had more fun in quickplay because everything was better and easier... As soon as the players in casual feel that they are losing and leave the game but then those same players enter again to the same game believing that it is another game...... It has already happened to us on more than one occasion that we are the only ones playing while everyone disconnected.... Now we play only on community servers but they are only full at night.
i dont mind games where i need to do my best and everthing... i just hate it when there are other people around me trying to do the same thing. being mad at me for making a mistake. me being mad at them for making a mistake tf2 is a game where a spy attacks me, and my ubersaw crits him into a other universe and i laugh taunt and type "unlucky" in chat. you just cant do that with any other game i used to play heroes of the storm (its league but for blizzard ip) its a very fun game, around 85% of all heroes are fun to play. you can be very uniek and expressive in the way you play. you can play a rather easy hero or a very hard hero. but the people around me made me so mad. people where fighting there own teams more then the other over the slighest of mistakes. i still have a dent in my desk when i trew my mouse once. i miss hots i realy do i have dyslexia, and english is not my first language, so am sorry for any spelling errors or whatever am just tired and i wanne have fun again
I just got back into Tf2 after a bit of a Deadlock spree because it was just too intense. I finally remember what its like to just enjoy a game for the fun and not for the win every time
I largely agree with your takes except for the random crit take. I feel like random crits just go a little too far with the randomness. A crocket randomly killing 5 people which because it's rng has the chance to happen multiple times is not that fun for the majority
The video went from being broadly subjective to extremely opinionated. It was nice to see the other perspective even though i don't agree much with this video.
I think this is why games like PG3D were so loved, even though it was extremely flawed, having basically zero balancing with tons of P2W weapons and stuff it was very fun to just... hop on and shoot some guys! The maps could be pretty long, had several spawn points spread across them and you respawned in just a few seconds so it didn't matter as much, it was hard to even find people who took the game seriously.
There's a video I watched once (maybe by Phuzzybond or uThermal, I wish I could remember the exact source) about how RUclipsrs making videos about a game they make money to play are the minority. The average person isn't somebody playing 8 or 12 hours of the same game every day. Those youtubers' opinions on "balance" are motivated by their unique dedication to a game that someone chilling for an hour or two at the end of a work day isn't likely to agree with, but those youtubers are the vocal minority.
i think the major gripe i have with this video is that you can get a similar position/situation from different angles. like on the case of not liking random crits, you can have concerns about balance and skill expression or you could just find it kinda lame to get one shot. a server is being shut down by a sniper? it could be a sweatyman trying to win the game or it could just be a very good player having fun clicking on heads. casual and competitive is more of a mindset rather than actions/positions.
Personally I play Uncletopia not because I don't like random critz (I don't really care about playing competitively that much), but because I don't want to get mic spammed with slurs and I can actually talk to people. I also think that there's still a good bit of goofing on UT as well in my experience it's not *that* competitive (still pretty competitive tho, but I like that when it is, the teams are good enough that it's a good challenge). There's still a bit of funnier mic spam/ A posing and the occasional friendly lobby so I personally find it's a good mix of both ends of the scale. Mostly playing the game but it's not very serious.
I'm not crazy about random kritz and feel like snipers are oppressive and the more casual a server is the more likely some kunai spy is gonna take advantage... ... but i haven't played Uncletopia since the bot crises ended. casual is absolutely fantastic these days
It seems that what casual means to anyone is as subjective as what one would consider good art. To me, as long as I dont play in a tournament, it is casual. Than on the other extreme side of the spectrum, if the game requires just a little bit more thought, its too competitve. I dont think there is anything to gain from trying to determine it. The best thing a game can do is to create casual and competitive mode. And even then it just wont cover the whole spectrum.
In tf2 after tutorial I was playing with bots before hoping on community servers and then on casual I also like playing with bots sometimes when i have bad internet or just wanna pubstomp without effort or just practice or... just be in a calm place without people Training with bots is great for me and i like playing it sometimes
this video is quite biased and not well researched. i would write a script and actually talk to some competitive players and try again. some quick points: - valve balanced the game on their own. they certainly didn't take advice from some youtuber solely. - balance changes were over 2-3 years and were made in general, not for competitive specifically - quickplay was removed because servers ran unskippable ads in the motd and faked their player count with bots. there is an infamous ster video on this - casual is not perfect and can be improved. - the general casual gaming audience has changed (idle games, td, small indie titles etc) - if you think people preferring no random crits and random spread is competitive, you need to stop cj'ing with certain people
A game that has been top in most played for almost 20 years and 7 (I think) without major updates is not even close to dead. Obviously there are competitive specialists who don't let the balls get in the way of trying to make it competitive (even more so if they are 6v6 fanboys), and even worse the mentally handicapped who think they are in the world finals playing dustbowl against a team of pure Spy and engineer; but it doesn't mean that it is dead, far from it.
I think Casual is dying is because how Competitive/Rank players treating the game. I can blame devs too but mostly I’ll blame the Player Base. Ok, for example OW. I asking if they can make the game more fun where Heroes in Casual will be different stats and able to play repeatedly as a Casual only experience. Quite number of OW players literally disagrees despite Casual suppose to be, well, Casual. It shouldn’t be sweating bullets and relies on winning. Anyways, TF2 Skill Base MM update is stupid at its core. Everything needs to be sweating bullets thanks to Rank/Com players. Look at items like Caber and Axtinguisher. These 2 are gimmicks items and are fun for casuals but Highlander players ruins them because these 2 weapons are not fun to play in com. Valve have to butchered the weapons to make it “Balance” towards competitive. Casual should be Casual. Chaotic in nature. It shouldn’t be competitive at all and should never ever relies to be Balance. Which is why Quickplay is the best way to make the game Casual. Auto balance, despite being stupid it is a very casual thing. TF2 will never be competitive games. Everyone knows this. Those who refuse to believe it are just delusional. TF2 designed to be Casual from the core so it will always be casual. OW too. Patch 1.0 it leans towards Casual than Com. The reason why OW goes sweating bullets is because Esports. And I’m start to believe Esports might ruins Video games in a way. Why? Because every Online pvp games always try to go to Esport routes. I can blame investors and shareholders as much as I wanted but I do believe Esports also part take this problem too of “Video Games isn’t that fun anymore”. Here’s what I believe. Video Games that have PvP as a core base shouldn’t have Esport as a core gamemode. Esport should be a side gamemode. Every Video Games should be accessible to most people and should focus on Casual First. Competitive should be their own space. Casual and Competitive should never ever merge together and split players into two groups. Balance also have to be according to each groups. Means heroes/weapons will be different stats for each of these two gamemodes.
I feel like most people just moved on to coop, PVE-only or Single player games at this point. Most online games nowadays are just so damn sweaty, and I just don't wanna compete. I've played PoE for thousands of hours and sure I could go SUPER hard on a league launch and be one of the first to get mirrors, kill ubers and all that jazz. I could go omega hard in WoW, I've played in speedrunning guilds and top parsing, mythic clearing guilds. I have 20k+ hours in that game. But I just don't want to anymore. It's too much. I wanna enjoy games and have fun with them, and all of this stress to perform well and needing to do this and that just go get slightly better isn't providing that to me anymore. I basically don't get this "Oh this is fun, haha yes" feeling with ANY PVP game anymore. Deadlock was fun for like 100 hours and, wow that's a lotta hours for a game I paid 0$ to play, thanks valve lol - but it's also way too competitive. I tried to get into that, aimtraining and all that but UGHHHH I just don't wanna bother. The game barely has anything to explore anymore. I played almost all characters (all the ones I'm interested in at least), and I get it'san alpha but once I can't unlock anything or try something new anymore and once my friends stop playing a given game, why bother? To "get good"? Eh, no thanks.
I think that perhaps your characterization of the competitive community was a bit too oversimplified. You're definitely focusing in on 6s. I do not think that 6s is fun, and I agree that the class meta makes the competitive game feel stifling. If you looked into competitive 7s or competitive Highlander (9s) I think you'd find that to be a more fun and engaging experience. Array 7 can totally come across as contradictory and condescending at times, but some of those balance changes hold significant weight. The team scramble is perhaps the most important feature (to me) on Uncletopia. Generally the higher skilled players on my team will focus down the other high skilled players on the enemy team, it is kind of like self selecting difficulty. Without team scramble, the distribution of this skill level can never be guaranteed. I found it hard to pin down what makes casual casual-like to me and the best definition I can come up with is "funny>effective". I've spent hours in Uncletopia as a revved up brass beast heavy, and I find it hilarious to still get kills this way. Or perhaps ubering the jarate sniper because why not? I've lost out on countless games of Fortnite for melee kills that were dumb for me to get. So yeah, the casual idea in the fps genre might be dying out, but I think that TF2 can have its cake and eat it too. Casual moments can exist in any match, you just have to have a community that curates them. You'll find nearly as many fat scouts, classic snipers, battle medics and hoovies on Uncletopia as anywhere else, because the community has created an atmosphere for nail biting "PUSH LAST" moments as well as a well deserved break for a 24 player blu-red conga. Funny>Effective
7s is just 6s with a sniper and highlander revolves entirely around medic, sniper and demo because the game isnt balanced for the highest level of play
![SahBabii - Viking [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D37cL92JX0I/mqdefault.jpg)
its not dying. its already dead. only casual pvp game nowadays is tf2. literally JUST tf2. every other game is trying to be the "Next big competitive hit" because of how much god damn money they make.
If you ever played Mordhau it has the same vibe as tf2 to it. Unfortunately it's very niche
@ninokaah1591 ye i forgot about the swordfighting games like mordhau and i agree! I was only looking through shooters and mobas and totally forgor about those games lol. But there still can be some toxic people like in any game if you're sweaty enough. Just like in tf2.
CoD Pro League is a flop, most CS orgs god knows how make profit (entirety of ESL was bought out by Saudis which partially makes DotA fucked as well).
@davidklemen5264 Oh yeah there's definetly some bad apples on Mordhau! Also I think what's holding back the melee slashers is the relatively high skill floor compared to other types of games. But once you know the fundamentals and play for a bit it's fun.
Shame tf2 is the only real casual experience left for pvp. I love tf2, more game developers should take note
@@ninokaah1591 mordhau is full of toxic manchilds that will forever be 15 in their heads and redditors.
not mentioning the difficulty curve
5:01 This demoman interaction is what tf2 is all about
Demo cartoonishly look behind, waits a second for his brain to figure out you're on the opposite team.
You both miss every shot point blank and then blow up on your own grenade.
I don't think any modern game have the same interactions.
Casual is dying so hard that tf2 is the only game that keep the high player count for over 17 years and every other game with huge restriction competitive stuff is dying each year.
tf2s playercount is highly inflated by bots. The actual playercount is closer games age of empires 2
It's around 20-35k, rest are bots. Still pretty good for an almost 2 decade old game.
On updates it spikea higher, with bots.
@UNUSUALstrangeVINTAGEgenuine more like 15k
@@muti7632 the playercount even without bota is still huge for a 17 year old game
TF2 is where I go when I don't feel like having to sweat
"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
Casual TF2 killed the game hard for me, played 6k hours from 2008-2016. I remember when there were no valve servers and you just played your favorite community servers, I remember when we did get Valve servers and quickplay for a vanilla experience. In 2016 they removed Vanilla TF2; no more map rotation, no more team scramble, no more spectator mode, no more alltalk, no more adhoc connections. I have only played the game like 100 hours since Meet your Match, mostly during Jungle Inferno when I had a bunch of contests to take my mind off the misery of casual mode. Once I finished all my contracts it hit me, the loop of casual is 1. get put into a match late on the losing team, 2. lose after getting to play for like 2 minutes max, 3. everyone leaves after the end of the match because the vote takes too long so you requeue and start the casual cycle all again. I just want quickplay back man, I want vanilla TF2 back.
Honestly, I consider it the "Competitive" Casual at this point since it came out due to them trying to make the competitive scene bigger. As problematic quick play was, it is still by far better than the "Casual" we have now. I still miss quickplay as it was my go to way in finding a random map on a gamemode I want to play.
It is not just casual PVP, tryhards and hardcores are also trying to force their mindset into PVE and many singleplayer games as well, especially in the shooting genre.
It really feels like people nowadays cannot enjoy a game if it is not a sweatfest that must be taken as seriously as a job.
As a newer gamer, I will tell you from experience that TF2 is among the last casual FPS games out there. Every new FPS that comes is some Compie 6v6 slop with some kind of SBMM system that forces you to stay to the very end. There's nothing like TF2 anymore, it's like an endangered species.
> Make video about how competitive players are trying to force their standards on casual players
> Look in comments
> Competitive players trying to force their standards on casual players
where is that happening lmao
@@twpsyn Comments with the most dislikes are put at the bottom.
@@twpsyn mym and jungle inferno
The majority of competitive players started out casual and understand what casual is and why it should stay casual, they hold no disdain against this portion of the community and play casually as well. To represent the vocal minority within the minority as if they're the norm is a form of strawmanning.
Those competitive players always ruin it for everyone
Tf2 is probably the only shooter right now where in a single match you can have the most tryhard players having the 1 vs 1 of their lives and funny silly shovel flying man trying to hit people. Tf2 has a place for competitive players ( hell , i played and loved highlander format ) , and it can coexist with a casual gamemode
tf2 does it right, competitive is barely a thing, no esport, and that's good
@@me67galaxylifenow if only it got an update if only just to get the interest of more people
@IAm-zo1bo They already tried that with Meet your match didn't they?
Fought a highlander heavy in casual a week ago
we lost horribly
@@thefierycharmeleon164 How about an update that fixes it's shortcomings like fix some weapons, fight harder against the bots and maybe even port it to source 2 even if just for bringing the game to the spotlight again
I like random crits
Same
I concur
Nobody who says this actually thinks this when they play they just want to be a contrarian
@@ratman2580 I mean it sucks to be on the receiving end of it but some, myself included, like the randomness of luck to our benefit that we can stomach its unfairness.
I dont like being killed by a random crit rocket
Every game currently being released is trying to be the next "x", which is unfortunate because "x" is always a casual game turned comp game by the vocal minority of players. A shame
"Everywhere I go, I see his face"
So true bestie, game devs dont cater to the majority of people playing the game and giving them money, theyre deliberately catering to the smallest playerbase and killing their games for no reason
@@ratman2580 More like the loudest part of the playerbase, which is generally the minority who feels entilted.
I really like this video. From the title I thought it'd be some doomer fearmongering but I was pleasantly disproven. TF2 Casual is one of the only gamemodes I've played that deserves the title of Casual and will always reel me back in after any poor experiences with other games and their 'Casual' modes.
I remember years ago that whenever I caught wind of "Random crits/random bullet spread = bad" being thrown around as evils that must be purged that it was just an instance of people misunderstanding what makes TF2 what it is. Sure, disable them on your own servers if they're THAT bad (which they objectively aren't) but don't force everyone else to feel the same way. Games need to be more fun, free and loose nowadays I reckon (hot take).
Good video :)
Not a hot take, a heavily-based take! I feel like this video actually makes sense, and you've perfectly summarized how I've felt.
tf2 casual is anticasual because it was designed to be training grounds for 6v6. real casual didnt have a round limit, let you pick teams and spectate, had team scramble and didnt display the status of everyone on your team and the enemys team at all times (that info was added to help with competitive)
Also casual existed before the thought of tf2 being competitive, it was called quickplay. Casual was a means to try and modernize the quickplay system.
@@AltF4Unavailable quickplay and casual were vastly different. casual on release didnt let you pick maps like it does now, penalized you for leaving and had the same elo system as csgo matchmaking. its very clear what they were trying to do with it. thankfully they got enough backlash for them to half-revert it
bro this video is so good! i laughed, i cried, i appreciate the bright screen warning
you nailed it! sometimes we just wanna have some fun with like minded peeps
comp player here.
i do hate that the fact everytime i go casual i don't wanna play like a sweaty guy
i just wanna enjoy some game with out being there 101%
We have to remember that tf2 comes from a bygone era of multiplayer shooters. Back in 2007 there were no official servers, only community servers. A lot of them hosted fun/party maps like mario kart. PVP games back then were designed to be fun first, not competitive. E-sports barely existed. Of course, valve tried to modernize the game as time went on to fit the current gaming landscape, but tf2's essence of being a virtual playground to have fun with other people still remain. That's what makes it different.
Very well done video! I have been feeling similarly about the state of casual in games, wish there were more fps casual options that aren't tf2, and this is coming from someone who has 2,000+ hours. Fantastic point at 8:52 felt that. That sense of freedom, that sense of true relaxation is something I have only been able to get from TF2, I want a new experience, I want new weapons, I want a new game.
Maybe random crits ain't so bad after all
This comment is for this video to be boosted to other’s FYP’s
As someone who hates random crits in pretty much every way possible (and RNG mechanics in general), I'm interested in seeing your perspective on random crits.
My biggest problem with random crits is not just because their intended design purpose doesn't actually work, but also because random x3 damage with no fall off really sucks. But, I'm interested in seeing your perspective with an open mind.
"Casual is a Casualty and Burnout is a crime"
Hintshot - Welcome to Team Fortress
it's weird to think that comp players were the ones who ruined the game with mym when the most controversial changes from 2016-2018 were casual replacing quickplay, which nobody wanted, and the jungle inferno nerfs to items, which valve never stated were a result of competitive community feedback. in fact they say the opposite, that changes to items were a result of feedback of players of all skill levels, with items like the base jumper being nerfed because of what skilled players that got good with it were able to do (these players were only found in pubs btw since the item was never used in comp).
also, ironically one of the biggest failures of the in-game comp mode was valve just actively not listening to feedback from the comp community during the beta tests
valve never cared about the comp community and only wanted their advice not to satisfy them, but to make the best competitive mode tf2 could have, thus turning it into their 3rd esports cashcow. the signs were already there, they even added csgo skins to tf2 thinking it would generate similar revenue. valve lost sight of what tf2 was and wanted to milk it
i think it's not completely true to say this because opinions like "the GRU is busted because it allows a heavy to get to mid quickly" was an opinion that was spread around comp-focused tf2 players for a long time and literally no casual cared about this. some of the changes were definitely made with the competitive community in mind.
Umm Valve dedicated all of those updates with the comp scene in mind cause comp players kept crying about how they had no support from Valve and how they wanted their own pug/scrim site bs and weapon changes noone cares about or team restrictions that don't matter, go comp go broke
I don't know why as a society allowed games to become second jobs, what happened to just playing because is fun, even singleplayer games adopted that style for some reason, sad honestly
Appreciate you sharing your opinion, had me wondering about my own stands on the matter.
He turns into Bentley from Sly Cooper around 17:30.
15:27 While I haven’t played those servers much myself, Id disagree that uncletopia became really sweaty because of the removal of random crits, random spread, its own map pool and team scrambles.
None of these changes aside from class limits seem heavily competitive oriented enough to cause such a big change in player base to me. Imo I think it may have more to do with the fact that if you’re a fan of uncle dane, you’ve probably watched him a lot and thus played the game a lot. Not to mention if you fill servers up with exclusively good players, it’s way harder for less skilled players to stay, creating a cycle where you don’t get newer players and thus create a more tryhard environment.
Tl;dr I don’t think uncletopia being unwelcoming is caused by those small changes, as it is the context of the people that would be getting into uncletopia I view the more likely cause.
Good video though. I have some other small disagreements as someone who plays both casually and competitively, but overall pretty good man keep it up
tbh I don't find uncletopia that tryhard, it's like casual but a little more focused on the objective than usual. Feels as tryhard as cs2 competitive (unranked)
groomertopia is not a casual alternative to casual
But he didn't say that?
Uncletopia is dog water. While I prefer most of the changes, I hate having class limits and pub timers, shit’s annoying. And the player are obnoxious as hell. Competitive dimwits and degenerates ruining my fun, and this stupid ass censorship and monetization with the same map pools over and over again. I got banned for being a said “tryhard” because some friendly went apeshit when I dominated him. Apparently he had connections with a mod that got me reported.
And do not get me started on the same people I see in every server, they are annoying as hell to fight and play with.
This is not me being a casual nerd, I’m just an average pub stomper with too many hours.
Good point, most people there just want to get better at the game, but during the worst of the bot crisis, most people had to go there, however, never in my life have I been yelled for not doing something a medic wanted me to do and I wasn't playing bad i was een topscoring, just needed a 4 second break
There are also toxic tryhards on casual who like to yell at people but that¿s the minority, on uncletopia it was the majority and a lot of people had to go there just to play the game without bots, let's say that being yelled at and playing the same 4-5 payload maps wants make you can the game and never touch it again.
4 out five games you had raging idiots yelling at people on uncletopia, and the one time where we just had good casual players, but on casual that's just the norm.
Some teenagers need a hobby outside of tf2 💀
Yeah I’d love to play TF2 as a silly casual where I dance in the corner, yeah I’d love to play Tf2 as a casual shooter and do the objective.
What I don’t like to deal with is join a game, get stomped by NightHawkXX the 3000+ hour soldier main who uses the original, gunboats and whip for the fifth time in a row.
I’d love to be the anchor of the team by being heavy to rally everyone and push forward to victory, but here comes this MrSwipez fanboy who interp abuses with the Kunai and spams the dead ringer.
I’d like to play TF2 for what it is, a fun, creative, wacky and exciting shooter, but it’s just hard to do that when so many players take this game so much more seriously than me and others that it just creates an loop of losing, a burnout. I’d probably play this game for maybe the winter and summer events and definitely Scream Fortress.
And then there's the insecure 12y old that pulls up with cheats after dying to you 2 times.
I feel that man, it’s really hard to have fun in tf2 because of th b4nny wannabe soldiers with kritz shoved up their assss
the game has been out a long time and isn't the go-to first free game new pc gamers download any more. the well of fresh installs has dried up for years since fortnite blew up and the rise of free hero shooters
it's only natural that even in casual you're now more likely to come across players with thousands upon thousands of hours that even with them just playing casually by their standards, ends up with them stomping valve servers
I think the only way to casually have fun in tf2 is to be casually as good as the other players. The problem with that is the other players often have 5000 hours of constant practice
I have nearly 2000 myself and I'm still just "pretty alright" at the game most of the time
People like to play the game differently and from a hoovie's perspective some fresh install killing him is a tryhard.
Me like crits because funny
Same
Decent video, an I too can relate to you with our views on tf2 RUclipsrs push for a comp tf2
This video: Casual is dying.
me: Nuh uh.
yeah it made me think casual TF2 is dying when in reality its all the games around TF2 based on casual dying.
Ngl really good video, I really dont have much to say that wouldn't be echoing and just commenting in hopes that it'll do smth to the algorithm. Pretty underrated stuff, would've expected to see thousands of subs rather than under 1k
The butter has blessed this day.
I agree with you and what you highlighted in this video is just the peak of the iceberg. Like, the primary reason why i hate the competitive community now (especially you, UncelDan) is because they acted like a radical cult. Zealously repeating there proganda and being obviously blind or ignorant to the fact that gameing is more then a sport and that a game with a PvP compound, does not have to be competitive in nature.
They probably where vindicated by E-Sport becoming a Mainstream Trend after 2010, aswell as general radicalisation happening everywhere (Rise of the Feminazi), especially on the Internet (Social Media).
The truth is, it was all just a gaint industry push by people like bobby kotick. Cause E-Sport games are more profitable then casual games.
Most gamers don´t want competitive play primarily.
Want prove ?
Meet your Match: Lowest playercount ever recorded.
Summer 2023 Update: Highest ever recorded playercount.
People don´t want competitive stress, they want casual fun.
I will always remember TF2s competitive community as the community who almost killed there game in a ritualistic blood sacrifice, believing that everything will be better afterwards.
i do know this is an opinionated video, but talking about 6s and its bans in a negative light & then acting as if it wasn't valve that made the changes to the weapons afterwards is a little bit silly. the bans in play in tf2's 6s are only significant in not making one class the objectively best class in the game (scout). off-classing is still done *a lot* and encouraged, but the nature of tf2 and its mechanics makes it an extremely mobile game, and classes that can't keep up with that mobility are not effective. sniper used to be a mainstay, but people got better and outpaced it. heavy, spy, pyro, engineer, and sniper simply cannot keep up and need to make minimal mistakes to get anything done. these players are not forcing this onto any other players, valve's own competitive mode, which came out before some weapon nerfs (such as the base jumper nerf in 2017, while competitive released in 2016), still allows players to use these weapons freely, with any team composition they want. you are undermining why the base jumper got nerfed for a competitive setting and thats because it truly was a broken weapon, players could spam down from above for free and drop & redeploy to dodge any and every projectile that came their way. you then think "oh then you can just play sniper to counter said base jumper." but then that goes back to the previous point of sniper being outpaced by the other classes, and you cant guarantee that someone goes to every mid fight (which determines who gets the momentum going into the rest of the round) that the enemy soldier will bring base jumper. thats the type of weapon that *should* be banned or, in valve's decision, nerfed, regardless of if you just want to sit in the sky and do nothing useful in casual modes. a weapon on a class thats already really strong forcing the enemies into very specific counterplay that they can easily thwart by unequipping the weapon, rendering one team at a disadvantage just by pressing a few buttons in a menu.
some weapons were nerfed undeservingly, but i did just want to bring up the base jumper point.
you are right that tf2 has a very casual playerbase, but i'd argue there are plenty of other games, specifically console based shooters like call of duty & battlefield that have similar casual playerbases. all 3 games have players who min max and try really hard. they all also have players who barely know what they're doing & nobody gives a shit if they do or don't besides a few players. tf2 just has the social & goofy side of it, while the other 2 are just realistic gun guys. this also isn't even necessarily an issue, competitive games generate more buzz which also can gain the companies more revenue (see counterstrike vs tf2. counterstrike is fundamentally older than tf2 and barely changed mechanically, but only boomed in popularity after it pushed for a more competitive focus), but we still have plenty of social experiences that can be had in so many games. roblox, tf2, fortnite creative, and then on the social side of things there vrchat and stuff like "webfishing" & even more than that. a game doesn't need to be gargantuan in size for it to be "alive." tf2 hasn't gone anywhere, and i don't think it will go anywhere soon, and if thats what players prefer & want to flock to then that is something they can easily do.
youtubers & influencers who pushed for forced competitive changes are cringe though.
tf2 isnt a mobility game and wasnt designed as such, in fact it is slowed down compared to tfc and qtf and was made into a chokepoint pushing simulator, which is what the intended experience of 12v12 ends up being. core tf2 isnt fast paced, it creates the illusion of fast pace by having a lot of people doing a lot of stuff at the same time. 6s is fast, tf2 isnt. 6s is designed to be as fast paced as possible because
1. its more fun that way
2. it ended up favoring the generalists, which happen to have the most mobility
and i suppose that is a part of what makes a generalist a generalist, and the generalists are meta because you cant make up for the weaknesses of a specialist like you could on a team of 12, and even if you could, said specialists only exist to slow down the game which further points to the games inherent slow nature. point is, 6s is a fundamentally different experience and a mere attempt at turning the hypercasual mess that even has a designated noob class into a competitive game
the base jumper perfectly highlights the weakness of 6s. a weapon that would normally be countered by classes that would normally be present on a larger team, or by spamfire in general, becomes incredibly annoying to deal with because said classes arent present and theres not enough people to spamfire. other weapons like that are the quick fix, sydney sleeper and scout as a whole
bro counter strike was like the biggest fps on the planet outside the us before csgo even came out, it was in every internet cafe, fym it got big because of csgo going comp
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413TF2 is still pretty fast even if it's slower than the other games you mentioned
So much text.
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 counter-strike was a big game but it had a boom in popularity with people who weren’t originally pc gamers. that followed huge competitive updates, including streamed majors that were hype as fuck for people tuning in for the first time. this is in part because it was a game to compete in but also just a mass amount of people moving to PC gaming in the middle 2010s.
you are right, 6s is fast paced. my wording was not perfect but that is what i meant.
first paragraph focuses completely on comp and like everyone says not everyone plays comp. the base jumper doesn't deserve a nerf because "it's too op in mid fights" or some shit literally no one cares about that except comp players. why would you ruin a weapon for the majority of the playerbase because of a minority. so no, the base jumper nerf was as bad as the others and is one of the examples why MYM sucks.
"other games also have players who barely know what they're doing & nobody gives a shit if they do or don't besides a few players."
i'd say this isn't true for a lot of games nowadays. because of matchmaking systems, team roles, and team sizes it matters a lot more if someone on the team is goofing off and i've noticed in fps circles people tend to really get annoyed when people don't do their jobs. (marvel rivals has a lot of people complaining about everyone locking in duelist for example).
It's important to remember from what time period mym came from. It was from a time when Overwatch blew the fuck up with it's casual nature and huge competitive side so it was only natural for Valve to capitalise with their game which practically was the father of Ow that already had an unofficial comp scene. And it's not like Valve is new to comp as they had cs go tournaments that sometimes were even broadcasted on television.
This video too is a product of it's time as people are more tired than ever of new comp games that will surely be the next hit being released every month.
Me personally like goofing around with bunch of hoovies and occasionally getting serious to hit cool airshots with pipes so I don't really have a stake in either side.
RUclips warned be about this comment being inappropriate lol, probably thought fuck was a word too strong to be on yt.
mym was being developed in like 2014, it wasnt made in response to overwatch, it was made because valve thought they could have another esports giant money generator under their belt. thats why they added contracts (like csgo operations), skins (like csgo skins), and matchmaking (like csgo). first they killed the artstyle for revenue, then they killed the game for a bit
i think the biggest evidence of casual dying is the constant push for teams of 6
why the hell would anyone think 6 random gamers are going to have any coordination, now because of how little the team size is there's no falling back on anyone like how that happens with 12v12. if someone doesn't play their role perfectly or isn't good as anyone it's a huge disadvantage due to losing someone in such a small team. it also means team compositions are way more and how the hell do you get random people to play a good team composition without forcing them? there's little wiggle room in your choices and both casual and comp players hate this resulting in everyone having a bad time and blaming their team.
you're seeing this with marvel rivals now everyone is complaining about how everyone is just playing dps but of *course* everyone wants to play dps. you play a game like mrivals because you want to play as your favorite superhero not because you want to play the perfect team comp to win.
obviously these problems can happen in tf2 but it takes more people to *really* throw off a team's comp because of the larger teams.
i hate how competetivisation of video games often disincentivises people from playing the game how they would like to and make you want to play meta instead, be it your teammates sending you death threats over not playing correctly or feeling like you are ruining others time by griefing them
Overwatch was casual when it came out, and within a year its balance changes had strayed so far from what was most fun, the inability to have more than 1 of the same character really impacted the casualness of quickplay. I still played OW for quite a while but it was never as fun.
Sigh
I hate blizzard
I think people are talking past each other when they say ‘casual’. Like most people go with casual is ‘playing how you want’ but that can range from being a friendly, not playing the objective, trying two win, topscoring, brain off fragging, learnjng two get good at the game, literally just doing casual matchmaking etc. and with that vagueness and contradictory expectations you can project a lot of things as ‘not casual’ and ‘fourcing their mindset’. Like heck my casual enjoyment of tf2 is getting good with scout, working with my team as medic, and roleplaying Gordon freeman the battle med. Is that tryhard? Who knows, ask the other players, I’m just having fun. Would my experience be made worse without random kritz, random damage spread, random bullet spread, and other mechanics people say makes tf2 casual? Probably not.
Also comp players really aren’t a secret cabal that influences valve’s balancing decisions, they’re just normal tf2 players. Valve just sucks at balancing weapons, even prior two when there were official competitive leagues (like remember when they gave every weapon with no random kritz a -25% damage penalty). And this is a whole other conversation but without weapon bans theoretically you have more options but practically you have less, since people want two win they’ll pick the best options, and if 1 option when used effectively is far better than the others (like the diamondback) or does something that puts your team at a disadvantage if they don’t use it (mad milk/cow mangler), then you practically have less options two choose from despite having more.
I remember being recommended uncletopia as this "better casual" about a year after I started playing, played 6 rounds all of which were steam rolls and only one where I was on the rolling team where I never saw a single enemy and the match lasted 3 minutes, and then I blacklisted every one of the servers.
This video opened my eyes and broke my heart. I too have passion for the game and I always thought my passion was positive, showing people the things that weapons can do, and some things they can do to get better at the game. Now i see that people aren't not knowing of what weapons do and aren't going to care about what i find optimal strategy against the enemy as I thought they are just playing to do what they like and be silly and instead of respecting that wish i was making them torn apart. Thank you for helping me see in a way i couldn't, we all need that every once in a while, I'll just let the sillies happen regardless of how silly they may seem.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to try your hardest to win, the problem (like you said) is how hard are you willing to push want you want to achieve that even if end up ruining everyone else's day
Enjoy the game in both ways. Find a balance between the best of both worlds, the most important thing is that everyone is having fun - Regardless if in the end you won or lost the match
If you want the game while respecting it, play however you want. If you don't go "hey go medic or we lose" and get mad after they don't go medic, then ur good
5:20 truer words have never been spoken. Random bullet spread can leave and I don't think anyone would complain. Random crits feel good to hit but not receive. Class limits should NEVER be implemented in the base game, the reason they exist is because it's really frustrating when you are trying your hardest to win, and there's 4 spies or snipers and no medic.
Yes I completely agree with you I love playing TF2 because it's a game where you can have fun without the urge to win.
There a lot of casual games it's just that people don't play them cause they aren't trendy or cool enough
I really like how you worded your casual player statement
it's a hill I'm willing to die on, but I fuckin LOVE random crits. genuinely. they're funny as hell, iconic to TF2 as a whole, and maybe they're not "fair and balanced", but they create a sort of tension or anticipation during fights that I haven't found in any other game. they almost force you to take a step back, say "wow that was dumb", and then laugh it off and keep playing this stupid little hat game. there's always a chance that the topscorer you're desperately fighting against for your life is spontaneously obliterated, letting you come out victorious in a scenario you otherwise never would've survived. It keeps you humble. no matter your skill level, sometimes things are just out of your hands, and that's honestly pretty cool. you CAN'T optimize random crits. they're not designed to be, and that's okay.
I can understand the other perspective, though. game balance is a complex issue in general, and when there's a mechanic in place that intentionally unbalances gameplay, people get touchy. what baffles me most, though, is that people are still pushing for these balance changes today as if the game is done for without them. we still play tf2 as it is, don't we? there's still something charming and ridiculous about it BECAUSE of all its design flaws and its long and convoluted history as a pvp shooter. You've got community servers right there, where you can change up the game's balance as you find most enjoyable. there's no shame in that; what there IS shame in, though, is acting like the way YOU enjoy the game is the BEST way, and then forcing that onto other people via balance updates. 10/10 video, wish more people understood that there's not an "intended way" to play TF2 anymore. it doesn't exist. you can't stick every player in a box and expect to not have any players feel alienated. it's a 17 year old game; I can guarantee you that whatever the original developers had in mind, it wasn't modern TF2. That's cool, though. to be loved is to be changed by nature. that's just how it is.
what's funny is that when i was a kid, i saw casual as THE competetive tf2 gamemode. why? because the objectiveless community servers were even more casual, and i never played actual comp
*casual is already gone*
*TF2 is the only one alive*
It is dead and the community is full of sick people
Man, now i really need to expedite a video im making talking about casual apex. Id really like it if youd check it out when it comes out.
That said, i came out of that script with the idea that a casual game is one where minimal or no time commitment is needed to play the game. If a game has too much downtime from the fun aspects or considerable time is needed to play the game, it stops being casual for lack of accessibility. One point i bring up is fighting games, as competitive as they are and structured, can still be enjoyed casually.
its not competitive players' fault for unprepared, underdeveloped and ultimately incompetently ran updates from valve
from beta to launch, there were no meaningful changes to matchmaking. not even incredibly obvious "this is fucking broken i cant play the game" changes. and NOBODY called for the removal of quickplay.
Honestly, I just hop into tf2 to have casual fun, and casual mode gets it done for me! I don’t care how good I do, I just enjoy the vibe of the game. Casual should’ve been better but I just don’t feel the need to complain about it.
Can't be changed, too many people are used to it! Enjoy more HATS MADE BY RANDOS FOR A BIG UPDATE, WHOOPIE!
13:57 Kinda sad seeing that out of 1500 tf2 servers only like 30 of them actually have enough players to run a decent game of tf2
There was a game just as casual as TF2 in the early 2010's called Loadout. It was something akin to a phenome during its early run. But, Sony worked out a deal with its developer and the game was ported to the PS4 and all updates were focused on the PS4, no one played it over there and then after a couple years the whole game was abandonded.
it tires me that new games require you to play seriously to not leave the match and to log in every damn day for extra cosmetic or stuff they give you or battle passes. tf2 is more of an relaxed experience that i can play 2 hours or 10 minutes and have fun while playing it . Bring back tf2 to the pre meet your match update
I truly agree with what you say in this video. everything. In my opinion, This is truly the meaning of casual. I hope this video goes viral and everybody see the light of what it mean to be a casual game. Thank u for making the video m8.
So, the game is casual if you can "play" it, while NOT playing it and just dancing in the corner? Well.....
@ u have to understand the meaning of play. Play can differ from individuals because of some people’s different opinions. But the definition states that play mean to have fun. Play can also used as sports. Which means that play can take in from both ways. So your claim is considered incorrect. If is entertaining for others, then it is considered play.
You laid out my exact problem with the modern gaming landscape. Well said.
they even played into the joke of TF2 being a hat collecting game with a fps as a bonus with the name of one of the official bots.
people just want to look how they want; cool, goofy, serious, ugly, it doesn't matter because there's a billion cosmetic combination that a lot of games don't use in favor of just skins.
(Fortnite comes to mind)
TF2 has basically became a game of NFTs with how the market works lol
its not OVERLY serious because thats just what fans of TF2 want. and TF2 fans are called that because there isn't a game LIKE TF2 enough to justify switching over.
also, I like the way you structure your videos.
even if they are just ramblings; they're fun to listen to.
Tf2 will never be balanced enough to be competitive. If we were to shift to competitive, every class and weapon would be nerfed to high hell. I’m an average pub stomper with 7000 hours and I generally hate Comp players because their egos are way above sticking to the same meta and weapons over and over again.
I hate random crits because it eliminates skill expression, but I still stand on Tf2 being the perfect game. It’s casual, it’s chaotic, it tests you to improve yourself.
the team fortress formula was designed in a time where the notion of balance was "everyone has to have fun". hell, pyro exists just so less skilled players could have fun, thats why he was in qtf, in tfc, and thats why valve kept him like that for tf2 as well. they wanted a hypercasual side dish in their pc gaming gateway, the orange box
Finally someone who actually knows what they're saying
good i hope community servers have a resurgence
Based McGinnis player
I have 1.5K hours and I still like random crits, even when I die to them. They just feel like another obstacle to overcome and look out for on the wacky, unpredictable battlefield that is TF2
Random crits reflected very close are so satisfying
DO NOT TOUCH MY HOOVY!
I have played TF2 for half my life and while I agree with a lot of the points made in this video, I definitely disagree with a bunch as well. Here's my two cents:
On the topic of "Casual" gamemodes dying across all multiplayer media, I can empathize with the fact it leaves people alienated. In the case of TF2, I definitely lean more towards the Casual side, despite partaking in lots of competitive oriented environments (whether community or valve comp) in the past. I just don't see a reason to, in laymen terms, sweat my ass off in games anymore. I also understand the fact that Casual can oftentimes feel like 12v12 competitive but this concept is inherently wrong because that's simply not TF2's problem.
TF2 is a team based game, meaning there's a lot more variables to what makes a certain match feel more competitive than another. Casual's inherent lack of rating based matchmaking is what oftentimes leads in matches feeling "too sweaty". You could be put in a situation where you're stuck on the losing side, unable to climb back up even if your team's individual capabilities are relatively strong, all because it's a team based game. Of course, there are also many times where you're simply gonna be put against ultra-unusual-professional-killstreak-mega-cyber-athletes, but this rarely matters much, since it's at most 6 people partied up together, strictly. A full team of 12 using their full power can easily take over. I know that a point could be made to counter this ideology, using the same logic, but it's simply what I said, the average TF2 match has too many variables that determine the outcome and gameplay feel. Additionally, gaming has now become a lot more mainstream, resulting in the average skill of individuals being significantly raised compared to the past. Less players are going to be confused about complex game mechanics when they're well documented and easily accessible.
So, that being said, while I know it's hard, sometimes you really just need to ask yourself what you find fun in a videogame. If any game is becoming a chore or results in you being upset, you should simply quit doing what you're doing. I myself don't boot up TF2 much anymore (too preoccupied playing Deadlock ATM), but I still enjoy gaming just as much as I did back in the day. Try experimenting more, finding your niche, whether that be different modes of gameplay (community servers are a start) or entirely different experiences altogether. Be mindful and have fun. Never let yourself think that someone else can define your fun (internet micro-celebs and whatnot).
Scout: Umino!
Casual was always horrible and not only that, I can't play with my wife because the wait to find some server is 15-17 minutes, before we had more fun in quickplay because everything was better and easier... As soon as the players in casual feel that they are losing and leave the game but then those same players enter again to the same game believing that it is another game...... It has already happened to us on more than one occasion that we are the only ones playing while everyone disconnected.... Now we play only on community servers but they are only full at night.
What region? In eu servers are found instantly
@IAm-zo1bo We play in NA and sometimes in SA
i dont mind games where i need to do my best and everthing... i just hate it when there are other people around me trying to do the same thing. being mad at me for making a mistake. me being mad at them for making a mistake
tf2 is a game where a spy attacks me, and my ubersaw crits him into a other universe and i laugh taunt and type
"unlucky" in chat. you just cant do that with any other game
i used to play heroes of the storm (its league but for blizzard ip) its a very fun game, around 85% of all heroes are fun to play. you can be very uniek and expressive in the way you play. you can play a rather easy hero or a very hard hero. but the people around me made me so mad.
people where fighting there own teams more then the other over the slighest of mistakes. i still have a dent in my desk when i trew my mouse once. i miss hots i realy do
i have dyslexia, and english is not my first language, so am sorry for any spelling errors or whatever am just tired and i wanne have fun again
I just got back into Tf2 after a bit of a Deadlock spree because it was just too intense. I finally remember what its like to just enjoy a game for the fun and not for the win every time
I hope tf2 never completely dies cuz we need it sometimes
I largely agree with your takes except for the random crit take. I feel like random crits just go a little too far with the randomness. A crocket randomly killing 5 people which because it's rng has the chance to happen multiple times is not that fun for the majority
The video went from being broadly subjective to extremely opinionated.
It was nice to see the other perspective even though i don't agree much with this video.
I think this is why games like PG3D were so loved, even though it was extremely flawed, having basically zero balancing with tons of P2W weapons and stuff it was very fun to just... hop on and shoot some guys! The maps could be pretty long, had several spawn points spread across them and you respawned in just a few seconds so it didn't matter as much, it was hard to even find people who took the game seriously.
I was just thinking about the game Loadout today, I miss it. It was a great casual game.
There's a video I watched once (maybe by Phuzzybond or uThermal, I wish I could remember the exact source) about how RUclipsrs making videos about a game they make money to play are the minority. The average person isn't somebody playing 8 or 12 hours of the same game every day. Those youtubers' opinions on "balance" are motivated by their unique dedication to a game that someone chilling for an hour or two at the end of a work day isn't likely to agree with, but those youtubers are the vocal minority.
Ture....
3:07 what is name of this hud
i think the major gripe i have with this video is that you can get a similar position/situation from different angles. like on the case of not liking random crits, you can have concerns about balance and skill expression or you could just find it kinda lame to get one shot.
a server is being shut down by a sniper? it could be a sweatyman trying to win the game or it could just be a very good player having fun clicking on heads. casual and competitive is more of a mindset rather than actions/positions.
Personally I play Uncletopia not because I don't like random critz (I don't really care about playing competitively that much), but because I don't want to get mic spammed with slurs and I can actually talk to people. I also think that there's still a good bit of goofing on UT as well in my experience it's not *that* competitive (still pretty competitive tho, but I like that when it is, the teams are good enough that it's a good challenge). There's still a bit of funnier mic spam/ A posing and the occasional friendly lobby so I personally find it's a good mix of both ends of the scale. Mostly playing the game but it's not very serious.
the xmas update didnt save the casual much
Phantom Forces is pretty alright for casual play depending on the map.
TF2 IS BEST
dead or not dead idc, community servers is still a best place
Nice video
based as hell video
I'm not crazy about random kritz and feel like snipers are oppressive and the more casual a server is the more likely some kunai spy is gonna take advantage...
... but i haven't played Uncletopia since the bot crises ended. casual is absolutely fantastic these days
tbh tl;dr is "comp kiddies ruined tf2 for everyone" sad reality
It seems that what casual means to anyone is as subjective as what one would consider good art. To me, as long as I dont play in a tournament, it is casual. Than on the other extreme side of the spectrum, if the game requires just a little bit more thought, its too competitve. I dont think there is anything to gain from trying to determine it. The best thing a game can do is to create casual and competitive mode. And even then it just wont cover the whole spectrum.
In tf2 after tutorial I was playing with bots before hoping on community servers and then on casual
I also like playing with bots sometimes when i have bad internet or just wanna pubstomp without effort or just practice or... just be in a calm place without people
Training with bots is great for me and i like playing it sometimes
Good. Anyway I'm not watching a ~20 minute video adressing a non-issue.
for a start all tf2 has to do is bring back qucikplay and bring back the old weapon balances
REPOST TO MAKE IT DIE FASTER
this video is quite biased and not well researched. i would write a script and actually talk to some competitive players and try again.
some quick points:
- valve balanced the game on their own. they certainly didn't take advice from some youtuber solely.
- balance changes were over 2-3 years and were made in general, not for competitive specifically
- quickplay was removed because servers ran unskippable ads in the motd and faked their player count with bots. there is an infamous ster video on this
- casual is not perfect and can be improved.
- the general casual gaming audience has changed (idle games, td, small indie titles etc)
- if you think people preferring no random crits and random spread is competitive, you need to stop cj'ing with certain people
I do hate random crits tho
Good
A game that has been top in most played for almost 20 years and 7 (I think) without major updates is not even close to dead. Obviously there are competitive specialists who don't let the balls get in the way of trying to make it competitive (even more so if they are 6v6 fanboys), and even worse the mentally handicapped who think they are in the world finals playing dustbowl against a team of pure Spy and engineer; but it doesn't mean that it is dead, far from it.
I think Casual is dying is because how Competitive/Rank players treating the game. I can blame devs too but mostly I’ll blame the Player Base.
Ok, for example OW. I asking if they can make the game more fun where Heroes in Casual will be different stats and able to play repeatedly as a Casual only experience. Quite number of OW players literally disagrees despite Casual suppose to be, well, Casual. It shouldn’t be sweating bullets and relies on winning. Anyways, TF2 Skill Base MM update is stupid at its core. Everything needs to be sweating bullets thanks to Rank/Com players. Look at items like Caber and Axtinguisher. These 2 are gimmicks items and are fun for casuals but Highlander players ruins them because these 2 weapons are not fun to play in com. Valve have to butchered the weapons to make it “Balance” towards competitive.
Casual should be Casual. Chaotic in nature. It shouldn’t be competitive at all and should never ever relies to be Balance. Which is why Quickplay is the best way to make the game Casual. Auto balance, despite being stupid it is a very casual thing. TF2 will never be competitive games. Everyone knows this. Those who refuse to believe it are just delusional. TF2 designed to be Casual from the core so it will always be casual. OW too. Patch 1.0 it leans towards Casual than Com. The reason why OW goes sweating bullets is because Esports. And I’m start to believe Esports might ruins Video games in a way. Why? Because every Online pvp games always try to go to Esport routes. I can blame investors and shareholders as much as I wanted but I do believe Esports also part take this problem too of “Video Games isn’t that fun anymore”.
Here’s what I believe. Video Games that have PvP as a core base shouldn’t have Esport as a core gamemode. Esport should be a side gamemode. Every Video Games should be accessible to most people and should focus on Casual First. Competitive should be their own space. Casual and Competitive should never ever merge together and split players into two groups. Balance also have to be according to each groups. Means heroes/weapons will be different stats for each of these two gamemodes.
I feel like most people just moved on to coop, PVE-only or Single player games at this point. Most online games nowadays are just so damn sweaty, and I just don't wanna compete. I've played PoE for thousands of hours and sure I could go SUPER hard on a league launch and be one of the first to get mirrors, kill ubers and all that jazz. I could go omega hard in WoW, I've played in speedrunning guilds and top parsing, mythic clearing guilds. I have 20k+ hours in that game. But I just don't want to anymore. It's too much. I wanna enjoy games and have fun with them, and all of this stress to perform well and needing to do this and that just go get slightly better isn't providing that to me anymore.
I basically don't get this "Oh this is fun, haha yes" feeling with ANY PVP game anymore. Deadlock was fun for like 100 hours and, wow that's a lotta hours for a game I paid 0$ to play, thanks valve lol - but it's also way too competitive. I tried to get into that, aimtraining and all that but UGHHHH I just don't wanna bother. The game barely has anything to explore anymore. I played almost all characters (all the ones I'm interested in at least), and I get it'san alpha but once I can't unlock anything or try something new anymore and once my friends stop playing a given game, why bother? To "get good"? Eh, no thanks.
helldivers 2 and elden ring
Fortnite is VERY casual (particularly creative more than battle Royale). It just also has a big competitive scene
I think that perhaps your characterization of the competitive community was a bit too oversimplified. You're definitely focusing in on 6s. I do not think that 6s is fun, and I agree that the class meta makes the competitive game feel stifling. If you looked into competitive 7s or competitive Highlander (9s) I think you'd find that to be a more fun and engaging experience. Array 7 can totally come across as contradictory and condescending at times, but some of those balance changes hold significant weight. The team scramble is perhaps the most important feature (to me) on Uncletopia. Generally the higher skilled players on my team will focus down the other high skilled players on the enemy team, it is kind of like self selecting difficulty. Without team scramble, the distribution of this skill level can never be guaranteed. I found it hard to pin down what makes casual casual-like to me and the best definition I can come up with is "funny>effective". I've spent hours in Uncletopia as a revved up brass beast heavy, and I find it hilarious to still get kills this way. Or perhaps ubering the jarate sniper because why not? I've lost out on countless games of Fortnite for melee kills that were dumb for me to get. So yeah, the casual idea in the fps genre might be dying out, but I think that TF2 can have its cake and eat it too. Casual moments can exist in any match, you just have to have a community that curates them. You'll find nearly as many fat scouts, classic snipers, battle medics and hoovies on Uncletopia as anywhere else, because the community has created an atmosphere for nail biting "PUSH LAST" moments as well as a well deserved break for a 24 player blu-red conga.
Funny>Effective
7s is just 6s with a sniper and highlander revolves entirely around medic, sniper and demo because the game isnt balanced for the highest level of play
What tf2 HUD are you using?
omg i love you. thing make more sense now!