I own this game and every expansion. I love it to death. I rarely ever get to play it though because it is hard. I play this with magic players though, they totally get the concept of the chain, so they grok (*wink*) it extremly easily. But compared to other deck builders, this is hard and quite thinky..takes a bit more time to soak up and absorb all the possible options, especially since you also draft your starting setup. But all that makes it so worthwhile to play after you have it all understood.
My wife and I enjoy this one, even though we haven't played it recently. If we played it more, I think we'd pick up some of the expansions to boost the choices in drafting. Great review!
I love this game so much. The theme and the mechanics of attacking people directly work so well together. It just fits. The mechanics are probably a little convoluted for newer card-game style players, but anyone that's played a TCG/LCG/CCG will pick up on this. The last-in first-out stack mechanic is the core of Magic The Gathering, so anyone who's played that will feel familiar with this mechanic. It just flows so well. Excited to see the reviews on the other expansions, as I've been thinking about getting a few of them.
I've had Nightfall since it was first released in 2011, and despite all the hundreds of games I have played and owned since, it remains my absolute favorite to this day. Excellent review. I do have to admit, though you can play Nightfall two-player, you shouldn't. The best thing about Nightfall is the table talk and politicking. You wouldn't play Cosmic Encounter with just two, though arguably you could, so why would you play Nightfall with just two? You need three to five for its genius to really shine out. That's why I hate playing Nightfall with the mobile app - you lose that aspect. It simply does not translate well to any format besides face-to-face. Thanks for the idea, though, Zee - on many own channel, after I highlight a few of the new DC Dice Masters cards, I will definitely do an episode about some advanced Nightfall strategies and favorite cards.
It's an out of print, smallish footprint, quick/short card game review. Oh it's Zee! All kidding aside, I considered getting into this series but passed on it in favor of Legendary because I liked the property/source material more than boring Underworld. I originally wanted to try out Resident Evil... but then I saw gameplays and reviews. :p
Hermes Padilla You can still find all of them on Amazon. I just checked. The BGG marketplace/auctions are overflowing with Nightfall that people are trying to dump. I think that's another reason why I steered clear (ie. why is everyone so eager to get rid of this....?)
In the review, Zee mentions that there are other deck builders that have "borrowed" the direct interaction concept from Nightfall. Can anyone name those games? The reason deck builders in general fall flat for my group is that they tend to play like multi-player solitaire; that is, each player is playing against the table, and player-to-player interaction is limited to trying to deny other players access to certain cards. What other deck builders feature direct player-to-player conflict?
Eric Penn The first one that comes to mind for me is Star Realms. However, my experience is limited. I have no idea if one borrowed from the other but there is certainly direct conflict in that one.
Eric Penn Rune Age and Heroes of Graxia have it. In a different way also Arcana and - I believe - Arctic Scavengers. Also Star Realms can be played with more than two players with two boxes.
I am interested in this game. PvP deck building strongly appeals to me. Is it fun 2P and is there anything new/better than this? I read it can be luck driven, which bother me heavily. Maybe the expansions fix this?
It is playable with 2 players, but far more fun with more. If one player gets the upperhand with 2 players, it is really hard to get back. Expansions do not really help alot here. It is somewhat luck based, but since you have 8 stacks to buy from, it is rare that you are completely trapped in a corner. Dont get sad if you loose the game the first time, it can be quite complex and the fun starts when everybody knows the rules, in the second game.
Man Zee, a review of this and all the expansions. I had no idea you liked this game so much. The fact that werewolves/vampires/hunters mix together just ruined it for me. Had the potential to be a great thematic card game. Instead it just missed the mark.
salsarocket The game is still availble, but they have ended the game line. I think its still in rotation, but they have completed the cycle of expansions.
Riley Crowder salsarocket Right. If you like the game, I recommend picking up the expansions for it sooner rather than later. One in particular (seems like Dark Rages) I've heard is already difficult to come by.
Riley Crowder but you have to damage your opponent while some of the cards block damage and you combine colors in both so i thought there's more to it than just deckbuilding
Dániel Lányi From the way you put it they seem similar, but in feeling they are totally different: 1) Chains VS Faction abilities: the latter requires simple matching of at least two colors to trigger additional effects, chains instead are much more complex given that each card has a main color and (usually) two different linking colors, plus you have the kicker and you have to pay close attention to the cards the other players are getting as the chain is "shared" and each turn everybody can play cards to the chain if they have the correct colors; 2) Wounds VS Authority: the latter is just a reversed, more volatile point counter in a way, wounds have effects (both using them and for being inside a deck by itself) and are not being tracked other than the total amount, meaning that the balance of the game and the capability of reading the game state are much more heavily dependant to players' skill and memory; 3) Fixed pool VS Random market: Star Realms uses the Ascension approach for card purchase, meaning that the row of available cards is ever shifting, and thus purchase decisions are mostly tactical, while the fixed pool of Nightfall (a la Dominion) offers more strategic planning (especially needed because of the chain mechanism); 4) Damage VS nothing: bases that can be target of attacks in Star Realms don't really take damage, their defence is just a threshold for destruction, if you don't exceed that then no damage is applied/recorded, instead Nightfall's minions have hit points and can "store" damage received that gets stacked; 5) Last but not least, in Star Realms cards have either an instant "play" effect (ships), they have some passive/continuous effect (bases) or they have some one-shot effect triggered by trashing (ships, bases or heroes); in Nightfall action cards have only a chain effect, while minions can have both a chain effect, and then be able to deal combat damage at the beginning of your next turn. This deferred nature of minions makes chaining, hand management and tempo all that more crucial, making decisions regarding which card to play much more tense (compared to Star Realms where you just play all your hand, sometimes even the order doesn't matter). All in all, Star Realms is more a super-streamlined pure deckbuilder with a randomized market, Nightfall is much more closer to a free-for-all competitive card game based on deckbuilding. What I mean by this is that in Nightfall the deckbuilding part is at least as important as the way you play the cards you have (something rare in deckbuilding games even now).
ZephonSoul thanks for the thorough comparison. To me your main point is that Nightfall is more about how you play your cards than deckbuilding and the chain being shared is a great point too.
I own this game and every expansion. I love it to death. I rarely ever get to play it though because it is hard. I play this with magic players though, they totally get the concept of the chain, so they grok (*wink*) it extremly easily.
But compared to other deck builders, this is hard and quite thinky..takes a bit more time to soak up and absorb all the possible options, especially since you also draft your starting setup.
But all that makes it so worthwhile to play after you have it all understood.
It's such a great, and underrated, game.
There was just nothing about that game that looks like I would enjoy it. Great review though!
This is still my favorite deck building game. Thanks for the video Zee!
What are your favorite deckbuilding games now?
My wife and I enjoy this one, even though we haven't played it recently. If we played it more, I think we'd pick up some of the expansions to boost the choices in drafting. Great review!
I love this game so much. The theme and the mechanics of attacking people directly work so well together. It just fits. The mechanics are probably a little convoluted for newer card-game style players, but anyone that's played a TCG/LCG/CCG will pick up on this. The last-in first-out stack mechanic is the core of Magic The Gathering, so anyone who's played that will feel familiar with this mechanic. It just flows so well. Excited to see the reviews on the other expansions, as I've been thinking about getting a few of them.
What? I don't understand your comment Stexe
Ah. I see what you did thar. Well played, sir.
Seems like a lot of White Wolf flavor in there. Looks cool!
I've had Nightfall since it was first released in 2011, and despite all the hundreds of games I have played and owned since, it remains my absolute favorite to this day. Excellent review.
I do have to admit, though you can play Nightfall two-player, you shouldn't. The best thing about Nightfall is the table talk and politicking. You wouldn't play Cosmic Encounter with just two, though arguably you could, so why would you play Nightfall with just two? You need three to five for its genius to really shine out. That's why I hate playing Nightfall with the mobile app - you lose that aspect. It simply does not translate well to any format besides face-to-face.
Thanks for the idea, though, Zee - on many own channel, after I highlight a few of the new DC Dice Masters cards, I will definitely do an episode about some advanced Nightfall strategies and favorite cards.
Interested if it's still your favorite deckbuilder?
I think it's a good move to shed light on games that may have been overlooked. I'm not crazy about this though.
I recently wanted to buy into Nightfall because of the chaining/stack mechanism, but my primary play group actively dislikes the theme.
Ben Foster I can understand disliking the game but the theme? You need new friends! ;)
TheGreatHamEl haha well I primarily play board and card games with my family, and the only theme they don't like is horror.
As far as the Ludology; Kamigami Battles got their schtick from this. I wonder if Nightfall got it from anywhere else.
I remember Tom's review when it came out. Looked interesting, but this chaining system also looked too convoluted.
It's an out of print, smallish footprint, quick/short card game review. Oh it's Zee! All kidding aside, I considered getting into this series but passed on it in favor of Legendary because I liked the property/source material more than boring Underworld. I originally wanted to try out Resident Evil... but then I saw gameplays and reviews. :p
It has been out of print for several months, the only thing you can find are some of the expansions, but no base game
Hermes Padilla You can still find all of them on Amazon. I just checked. The BGG marketplace/auctions are overflowing with Nightfall that people are trying to dump. I think that's another reason why I steered clear (ie. why is everyone so eager to get rid of this....?)
In the review, Zee mentions that there are other deck builders that have "borrowed" the direct interaction concept from Nightfall. Can anyone name those games? The reason deck builders in general fall flat for my group is that they tend to play like multi-player solitaire; that is, each player is playing against the table, and player-to-player interaction is limited to trying to deny other players access to certain cards. What other deck builders feature direct player-to-player conflict?
Eric Penn Starcraft and Mage Knight both come to mind, but of course for those games the deck-building is part of the game, not the entire game.
Eric Penn The first one that comes to mind for me is Star Realms. However, my experience is limited. I have no idea if one borrowed from the other but there is certainly direct conflict in that one.
Oh, I should qualify my question: What other Deck Builders that support more than two players have direct interaction? I'm not aware of any!
I think, I'm not sure, that the DC deck building system supports multiplayer and it has direct confrontation.
Eric Penn Rune Age and Heroes of Graxia have it. In a different way also Arcana and - I believe - Arctic Scavengers. Also Star Realms can be played with more than two players with two boxes.
This is a very cool game!
I am interested in this game. PvP deck building strongly appeals to me. Is it fun 2P and is there anything new/better than this? I read it can be luck driven, which bother me heavily. Maybe the expansions fix this?
It is playable with 2 players, but far more fun with more. If one player gets the upperhand with 2 players, it is really hard to get back. Expansions do not really help alot here.
It is somewhat luck based, but since you have 8 stacks to buy from, it is rare that you are completely trapped in a corner.
Dont get sad if you loose the game the first time, it can be quite complex and the fun starts when everybody knows the rules, in the second game.
Anybody else notice Voldemort on the cover?!
Man Zee, a review of this and all the expansions. I had no idea you liked this game so much.
The fact that werewolves/vampires/hunters mix together just ruined it for me. Had the potential to be a great thematic card game. Instead it just missed the mark.
Is this game still being published? The guy I bought this from at his game shop said AEG canned the game...
salsarocket The game is still availble, but they have ended the game line. I think its still in rotation, but they have completed the cycle of expansions.
Riley Crowder salsarocket Right. If you like the game, I recommend picking up the expansions for it sooner rather than later. One in particular (seems like Dark Rages) I've heard is already difficult to come by.
Most of them are easy to come by. The only one that isn't is the Indian Themed one that's a full starter set.
That must be Eastern Skies then.
Yes. That one. Being the only one I don't own, its also the one whos name I always forget.
How does this compare to star realms?
Dániel Lányi Other than being a deck builder...nothing like it so hard to compare.
Riley Crowder but you have to damage your opponent while some of the cards block damage and you combine colors in both so i thought there's more to it than just deckbuilding
Dániel Lányi From the way you put it they seem similar, but in feeling they are totally different:
1) Chains VS Faction abilities: the latter requires simple matching of at least two colors to trigger additional effects, chains instead are much more complex given that each card has a main color and (usually) two different linking colors, plus you have the kicker and you have to pay close attention to the cards the other players are getting as the chain is "shared" and each turn everybody can play cards to the chain if they have the correct colors;
2) Wounds VS Authority: the latter is just a reversed, more volatile point counter in a way, wounds have effects (both using them and for being inside a deck by itself) and are not being tracked other than the total amount, meaning that the balance of the game and the capability of reading the game state are much more heavily dependant to players' skill and memory;
3) Fixed pool VS Random market: Star Realms uses the Ascension approach for card purchase, meaning that the row of available cards is ever shifting, and thus purchase decisions are mostly tactical, while the fixed pool of Nightfall (a la Dominion) offers more strategic planning (especially needed because of the chain mechanism);
4) Damage VS nothing: bases that can be target of attacks in Star Realms don't really take damage, their defence is just a threshold for destruction, if you don't exceed that then no damage is applied/recorded, instead Nightfall's minions have hit points and can "store" damage received that gets stacked;
5) Last but not least, in Star Realms cards have either an instant "play" effect (ships), they have some passive/continuous effect (bases) or they have some one-shot effect triggered by trashing (ships, bases or heroes); in Nightfall action cards have only a chain effect, while minions can have both a chain effect, and then be able to deal combat damage at the beginning of your next turn. This deferred nature of minions makes chaining, hand management and tempo all that more crucial, making decisions regarding which card to play much more tense (compared to Star Realms where you just play all your hand, sometimes even the order doesn't matter).
All in all, Star Realms is more a super-streamlined pure deckbuilder with a randomized market, Nightfall is much more closer to a free-for-all competitive card game based on deckbuilding. What I mean by this is that in Nightfall the deckbuilding part is at least as important as the way you play the cards you have (something rare in deckbuilding games even now).
ZephonSoul thanks for the thorough comparison. To me your main point is that Nightfall is more about how you play your cards than deckbuilding and the chain being shared is a great point too.
Star realms is better.