@willsherman4044 i haven't had time for comics past few years but I always preferred DC to Marvel and honestly, they just hit in a more realistic light it feels, or everything is more tangible. It is what makes messed up stories like this so polarising. If you haven't gotten the chance, the Young Justice show is pretty good. I loved it as a kid but didnt get far into S2. Now I am on S3 and God damn idk how it is a kids show
This mind wipe is what cause batman to create those plans, batman mind training allowed him to remember this Sub consciously and his sub conscious started telling him not to trust JL and even not to trust zantanna anyone, it shows cause he switches to john as his primary magic person
The contingency plans were not the problem,it was how his plans got compromised.perfectly valid to have plans to take care of any league member should they turn evil or get mind controlled,just that someone else obtained the plans without his awareness
@chrisahearn789 Partly. Yes, this is what convinced Batman to make Brother Eye, but, apparently, part of the reason Maxwell Lord went rogue was because his mother was one of the casualties of Coast City during the Return of Superman.
@@MatthewTeachout-xj4yy *at the Justice Hall* Batman: So what did we learn? JL: ... Your contingency plans are justified... Batman: And? JL: ... And they're all non-lethal. Batman: Good. Let this be a reminder for all of you to get off my back and do not question my moral compass ever again.
Feel like it would be more " *Sigh* that explains suspected memory alteration 4570-f. I had hoped my hunch on which parties were involved had been inaccurate. I will have to update their psychological profiles after I ask them what the *hell* they were thinking doing that to a fellow leaguer."
Man, wiping Batman's mind is 1. Not gonna work for long man's got like 50 backups of his mind. And 2. Just asking for a contingency wipe out of the league.
Wally at several points tries to get the league to come clean, why wasn’t he told Batman already knows everything the first time he tried to get them to come clean
Because Identity crisis isn't the most complex or well written event. The bigger issue is how casually it throws around a character being r***d as a plot device in the backstory.
@@TangledLion what were the interactions like, Wally runs up hey Wonder Woman you need to come clean to Batman about wiping his memory. How can you be told that and not tell him he already knows, or did Wally come in tell the people then run off before they could tell him he already knows
@@LCBK So I went to explain your question and accidently went on a Rant about the book because I had to look up the details, so I'll just tell you and leave my rant below. There isn't really an interaction in the story itself where Wally tells Batman. He just keeps telling Green Arrow Someone should tell Bruce but he NEVER does in the story itself. He's just Awkward around bruce and doesn't SAY it. Its just hinted at towards the story's end and then its confirmed in an issue of JLA later. So the setup is Wally and Kyle are running around with Green Arrow who is the main pov for the league members who did the mind wipes. The league members involved were Zatanna, Atom (Ray Palmer), Black Canary, Hawkman, Hal Jordan, and a reluctant Barry Allen. We are getting bits and pieces from Arrow along with Wally and Kyle as they are pursuing a lead on the murder of Sue Dibny, wife of Elongated Man. And Oliver is kinda tight lipped about details because he was feeling guilty about it I guess? It isn't given much room to cook and breathe and ends up half baked because all this? The Mind Wipes from league members on several occasions? The recon that Sue was r****d by Dr. Light(Which we only find out AFTER she's killed off at the story's beginning)? It's only ONE plot lie in a mini series that ALSO Kills several more characters for reasons that mean little to nothing to the overall murder mystery its supposed to be about. Captain Boomerang and Tim Drake's Dad mutually Ice one another, Firestorm is killed because *checks notes* he's STABBED by a sword and thus goes Nuclear. And finally, the story ends with an ending that, only really factors in clues first introduced like, AT THE END of the penultimate issue and is impossible to solve as you go along, which is part of the FUN of a mystery story...
Thats a horrifying thought, you wiped someone mind of specific memories against their will, except the "victim" knows and is just contemplating how he should rip everyone a new one
Well, with Dr. Light they not only wiped his memory but also gave him a new personality and basically made him a punching bag for the Teen Titans. Bruce had to wonder if they had done anything else to him.
They don't like a lot things about Batman, but know him well enough to know that *someone* has to be "the bad guy" among the superheroes so there would be consequences for those who do BS like this.
@@girl1213 Not to mention that only both of them have given the green light for Batman to take them down when necessary. They are the only members humble enough to accept that shit happens.
@@kado3661 And Batman did the same thing with them. He's smart enough to know that, at the end of the day, no matter what his plans are: the League CAN put him down. Especially if they recruit people he doesn't know (which is rare, but happens) and many other factors since Batman *never* forgets how human he is due to how his parents' died.
Yeah but what if the flash became evil the only reason the reverse flash doesn’t kill Barry is because it would wipe himself from existence. If the reverse flash had nothing holding him back he would kill every hero in the universe and about two seconds.
That's how Batman is. Always prepared for the worst case scenario and prepared to do the work that no one else wants to do, or do it himself so they don't have to.
Superman gave Batman the kryptonite ring to beat him with in the event that he turns evil or is mind controlled. So at least he was complicit in the plan.
@@RobinRhombus2he literally just got held down and mindwiped by people he thought he trusted and legit could not do anything. Batman is already paranoid but this event made his paranoia for super powered crusaders even worse.
@@MrEndstage If he didn't go through with it, they would have mindwiped him of the events also. But honestly, should have just gone through and then snitched if it really went against his values.
@johnlucas2838 be fair Ollie does have or did really have a huge pride. If he really fucked up he has trouble coming clean like when he abandoned his son
I think the entire bat family and even the teen titans where extremely pissed off when they found out to the point they wanted nothing to do with the league
@@shadewolf0075 you are right they also tried turning dick against him and he was pissed and told Batman about them attempting to get him to turn on Bruce
My main issue is how what they did to Dr.Light is morally justifiable if you wanna argue it. HOWEVER what they did to Batman was absolutely not. They weren't doing it to protect anyone else. They did it cause they knew others would dissagree with what they did and so they decided to hide it. Frankly at that point just kill the guy. Violating his very being to rewrite his personality is basically murder just without the messy cleanup
@d_3634 can you explain the circumstances around the dr.light mind wipe? cause if it is the one I'm thinking of I can't see it justified in the slightest. Though I'm not all that big on comics so it could be different
@@paulmatthias3627 haven't read fhat bit as much, but from what I've heard Dr.Light killed Elongated Man's wife and also knew some secret identities. So they wiped Elongated Man's memory so he forgot he ever had a wife (at his request I believe) and also straight up labotomized Dr.Light to make him forget everything and have a new less messed up personality. Batman walked in on that part and obviously was not ok with it, so they wiped his mind of that 10 min or so. Then they got mad at him when he had 0 trust in the league going forward.
@@d_3634he didn't just kill his wife, he SA'ed her first and THEN killed her. Which is exactly why I'm on the side of the Justice League for this. Where they crossed the line was when they erased Batman's memories as well since at that point all they were doing was covering up what they did to save face.
For those interested it didn't end well. Batman got so paranoid he built an Orbiting AI called Brother Eye that was tasked with collecting Intel on Super heroes. During its tenure it was.... Hacked by Rah's to find Batman's contingencies, which he used to incapacitate them during the Tower of Babel Arc Taken over by Maxwell Lord who used it to create OMACs (think Prime Sentinels but forced) who he uses to try to wipe out all Superheroes. While he ended up killed by wonder woman his plan led to Ted Kord's death and damage of Thmyscira after wonder woman killed him; Given sentience by a the Son of Lex Luther from an Alternate Reality so that he could use him to rebuild the multiverse, right up until he's shot out of the sky by a team including batman and mister terrific. Took over a nuked Bludhaven after getting revived by an Ex-wayne scientist, tried assimilating apocalypse, and was the forerunner of the virus that created Kamandi's AD World
Batman: “Hmm, weird, can’t remember yesterday even though I have a photogenic memory… hmm, lemme just, check the Watchtower’s security cameras probably nothing too cra- - *OOOOOH MYYYY GOD* “
@@NotFreecduh think about it U tell superman ur plans to stop him When he gets mind control whats stopping the dude to make somethig to counter that contingency plan? Those plans could only work cause of element of surprise And against god like beings thats the ONLY way to make it work
@@NotFreec Not true. Other members of the bat family like Grayson and Drake know Batman well enough to realize the plans exist. It's just that they have never needed to go looking for them.
That is a truly amazing moment in that comic. Great writing, great art, superb storytelling. It nails those two characters with very little to no dialogue. Amazing stuff
That why both batman and superman are supreme hero of DC never go beyond the line no matter circumstances unlike anyone the morale hold them back always making decisions only for the best for others not themselves most of the time
Dr. Light became a gag character supposedly because of this. I'm trying to find the titans run where they mention it. Wally mentions it during identity crisis but thats about it.
That makes sense it would just be a massive shock for a kid to be watching Teen Titans Go and decide to look up some of the characters, and stumble upon this
I like that people bring up the justifications of the tower of babble incident but forgetting that the legue that did the thing wasn't the members who got affect by the plans
Tower of Babel is his plans being used by someone else to hurt the league. He didn't do anything bar have contingencies in case they went evil. It doesn't matter who it affected it is just a plan he made, he didn't actually put them into place that was Ras Al Ghul. So again it is still fine and makes complete sense.
Yeah, it’s more of blanket paranoia. Think if it like this, Batman doesn’t know who to trust. Even his childhood friend turned on him, so naturally he prepared even for those who he wouldn’t normally suspect. This includes league members who weren’t present.
That makes it worse. The League in Tower of Babble is THE Justice League, the best of the team. If some lesser members could do this, what's stopping the A-Listers from doing the same or worse?
when superman and flash both look at you like you fucked up.... you've fucked up. MAYBE one of them disagreeing you can actually be right? But the heart AND the soul of all superheroes? helll nah you've fallen.
My first thought is "you took the memories of BATMAN and you honestly don't think he'd notice.. The Worlds Greatest Detective". That's not smart.. That is the one guy being secretive around will not work and Flash is smart enough to know that. Plus the Big 3 look at each other as Family because they've been through so much together
People underestimate Alfred. There is no force on this earth that will save you from him if you hurt his family. You'll survive Batman, you won't survive Alfred.
Its crazy how easy it is to justify and defend Batman's beliefs when shit like this happens. The worst part is that Batman hates being proven right though and thinfs are tripping over themselves to prove him right.
They decided to wipe memories of Doctor Light to protect families and make him a lesser threat. Batman started the fight to stop them. If anything that proves that for a Batman it is just a sick game that he does not want to win.
@@ГригорийГ-ч4нyeah because that’s what heroes do, they lobotomize people, Batman can handle a few murderers in the team but to lobotomize someone is something else, then get your mind wiped by practically your first and oldest friend, that’s a new level of a dick move
@@ГригорийГ-ч4н NGL I feel like fucking with someone mentally like that is on a whole other level of evil. And Batman has always hated manipulating people's minds. He even has a villain or THREE who do that to people constantly.
@@Steven-hc1vy Batman is always about sticking to his rules and forcing others to do it. But... just how much did his rules actually made Gotham a safer city?
Funnily enough wiping batmans memories, or even changing would be the best contingency for him. No more guilt or grief, he would just move on with his life and his 5-7 children
Nah. He's been memory wiped before, and that causes his backup personality to take control. This backup personality is essentially a MUCH more extreme and reckless Batman without Bruce's memories holding him back.
Honestly, what those 7 did to Bats justifies his contingency plans against them much more than any of them falling to mind control. At least under mind control, they have the excuse that they werent in control of themselves. But what they did to Bats was a conscious effort, one which they knew would turn out badly when its revealed but they did so anyways. And for what reason they did this, a simple disagreement. That move alone removed any trust he could have for them and that by itself is one thing they will regret.
To be fair, it is said that one of the reasons they started mindwiping villains after Dr. Light, was because the villains managed to find their Secret IDs. I don't think Superman would be complicit with mind wipes, but he would understand why the league did those.
"oh he knows. Now we waiting on what he gon do. For all we know we are dead and this is the after life, bats is that scary so if you wanna tell him be my guest"
Batman was known for his paranoia, enemy, friend, it didn't matter to him. He had plans to neutralize all of them should worst come to worst, all they did was justify it and make him more paranoid.
The thing about Bats is that what he does falls into the gray area of the law. It isn't legal but it hasn't gotten to the level where it's against the law yet either. The reason he advocates so heavily that no one on his squad or the JL kill anyone is that the moment they do, they've crossed the line into the black, becoming a criminal. Contrary to popular belief as what most fans care, murder is a seriously judged crime. The moment one of them kills, the police are obligated to treat them as criminals. Sure, Batman does a lot of assault on criminals, horrendously so, but he ensures that they stay alive and he can forever pay for the treatment of those criminals later as Bruce. That said, he doesn't play judge, jury or executioner for any of them, no matter how badly he wants cuz that removes him from the gray zone he operates in. And as far as Gotham is concerned, him operating in the gray area reduces the overall crime rate, which they want, but the criminals are left with the people to deal with. From the start, the Joker being allowed to escape the death penalty was never Batman's fault as its not his job to prosecute, judge or execute him. If anything, that's on Gotham lawmakers. Not to mention, what was stopping Gordon or any police on duty from pumping lead into the Joker's entire body after they got him into custody? Batman can't due to him working in the gray area, so what's stopping an already corrupt cop that's gonna face jail time or someone who's lost family at Joker's hand in the force from ending him?
This is how it happened….this is when the bat knew he’d have to put the league in their place for having to jump him. But at least they have enough common sense to be scared of his retaliation. I’d be heated if green arrow helped in jumping me he’d be first on the list to catch a fade
What’s more angering about this is that this is one of the moments that kicked off Batman building Brother Eye and we all know how that turned out. Still how is that when it come fiction how is that I can only name two heroes who make A.I’s better then Hank Pym or Bruce?
And yet they still mad that bruce got contingency plans for them😂 The reason why he has those is because of stuff like this, because at the end of the day, he's still a human in a room full of godlike beings that can absolutely destroy a country at the very least if they ever wanted to.
It the League thought what they did to Dr.Light was right they should have just caught Batman and lobotomized him Dr.Light. But by wiping Batman's memory, it shows they know what they did is wrong.
Wait what? He knows? And they just waiting for Batman to F them up? The gulls on those leaguers are incredible because I would try to handle Batman the moment I knew he knew what I knew that I didn’t want him to know.
Given the biblical landslide of a tire fire of events that happened all because of Dr. Light basically being made into the worst scum possible as if to justify all the participants to be set on their paths for the inevitable mega event comic to come later, I feel like all of this could have been prevented had they just sent the guy to prison and let the inmates once they found out take care of the problem themselves.
Please tell me you’re gonna cover when Dr. Light with his memories goes after the Teen Titans. His fight with Superboy and Wondergirl was soooo damn cool!
I don't remember Superman ever finding out they messed with Batman's memories and quitting tho. At the end it was just Batman eyeing Wally knowingly that something is wrong
It has been a long time, but it's implied that Superman found out, but decided not to get involved in that shit. I don't think he actually leaves the League, but rather that he was too busy to help at the time. Things were going to hell in a handbasket then, Superman was deliberately overstretched - between Ruin, OMACs, magic weirdness, Max Lord, the Secret Society, etc etc - Superman was too busy trying to fight a million fires.
Yeah nessing with bruces mind was bad but light deserved what he got scratch that he deserves worse sometimes these heroes and civilians treat other heroes worsebghan the evil villians
Also, Batman is like all of their bosses.He paid for everything and pretty much if they work anywhere.They're probably working for him.Okay, he's got a business and a little bit of everything.That's how he has so much control
If you think about this, it gets even worse. It was after his mind wipe that Light became a joke of a Teen Titans villain. The JL let a known RAPIST in the proximity of their child and teen charges!!
It’s those moments in comics when you realize that things like Tower of Babel plans are positive. Sure, heroes can see those things as negative, as they tell how to defeat superheroes, but Batman understands better than anyone that superheroes are only humans (mortals? Flawed?) values can change, and that with them being vigilantes that don’t fallow laws, someone needs to be vigilant against them. There is a moment in the Justice league animated show, when green arrow says he understands the fear from meta humans and that he himself fear the members of the league. It’s those kind of actions that make the Justice league so fearsome.
So let me get this right! " I understand this is a comic book," but...they mind wipe a murderous rapist who is just a headache to the Teen Titans. And apparently, that's what's sets off the morals of the mind wipe? I get story arch and character development, but this is just stupid, 😅😂
They erase everything about him and rewrite his mind only for him to come back as Dr Light anyway. What's worse is that, as easily as they mindwipe Light, they wiped Batman with less discussion.
Wow I know a lot about Wally west and by that I mean A LOT but every time I find out something new it just reminds me that he is my favourite character in all of fiction
This happens during DC's Identity Crisis! (2005 ish) Be sure to subscribe for more!
Knew it, but this was a wild Dc story. Truly some tragic and insane things happened in this book. Dan, what’s your top 5 favorite Dc books of all time
Ah Identity Crisis, one of the first, and WORST miniseries I ever read.
@@TangledLion It’s definitely polarizing
Bro seriously how do you 5 days in a row not expand on how crazy beast is
Oh super madman scientist but no other video on him
@willsherman4044 i haven't had time for comics past few years but I always preferred DC to Marvel and honestly, they just hit in a more realistic light it feels, or everything is more tangible. It is what makes messed up stories like this so polarising. If you haven't gotten the chance, the Young Justice show is pretty good. I loved it as a kid but didnt get far into S2. Now I am on S3 and God damn idk how it is a kids show
Batman: welp, you just justified my contingency plans
Yup. Mind control and evil copies is a valid concern, but Bruce knows how easily someone with power can be led into thinking the might makes right.
Later
Batman: OOPS, created a literal Skynet. Maybe naming it after 1984 was a bad idea?
This mind wipe is what cause batman to create those plans, batman mind training allowed him to remember this Sub consciously and his sub conscious started telling him not to trust JL and even not to trust zantanna anyone, it shows cause he switches to john as his primary magic person
@@mikhaelgribkov4117to be fair wasn't his goal and the writers needed to go back to statue quo
The contingency plans were not the problem,it was how his plans got compromised.perfectly valid to have plans to take care of any league member should they turn evil or get mind controlled,just that someone else obtained the plans without his awareness
Makes sense the flash is a caring person and they violated the bats
Flash is the most kindest of the DC heroes and his rogue's gallery reflect it.
I think that lady was violated more then him
Fucked up part Wally found out Barry was one of the ones that was ok with the mind wipes
@@TheRuneTailBarry wasn't around at the time?
@@deadsoul7409 I know I said Barry was one of the 8 that was ok with the lobotomizing that took place ages ago
Yeah sure, jump Batman and wipe his memories. That'll go over well.
Isn't this the inciting incident for Brother Eye, the Omacs, and Maxwell Lords attempted pogroms on Capes
@chrisahearn789
Partly. Yes, this is what convinced Batman to make Brother Eye, but, apparently, part of the reason Maxwell Lord went rogue was because his mother was one of the casualties of Coast City during the Return of Superman.
@@chrisahearn789yup
@@chrisahearn789 this
And wally west not admitting to batman that he knew also caused batman to create his contingency plans
Right?!
Batman: “Wally, Clark… don’t come to the justice hall tomorrow”
@@Screen_solar LOL!
Theres going to be....justice in the justice hall
Batman: Alfred, turn on “Pumped up Kicks”
@@MatthewTeachout-xj4yy *at the Justice Hall*
Batman: So what did we learn?
JL: ... Your contingency plans are justified...
Batman: And?
JL: ... And they're all non-lethal.
Batman: Good. Let this be a reminder for all of you to get off my back and do not question my moral compass ever again.
😂😂😂 bruh this made me laugh so hard
*Batman watching through a camera on green arrow's lapel* "ALFRED GET AGAMEMNOS CONTINGENCY PLANS FOR EVERYONE BUT WALLY AND CLARK"
Feel like it would be more
" *Sigh* that explains suspected memory alteration 4570-f. I had hoped my hunch on which parties were involved had been inaccurate. I will have to update their psychological profiles after I ask them what the *hell* they were thinking doing that to a fellow leaguer."
Man, wiping Batman's mind is 1. Not gonna work for long man's got like 50 backups of his mind. And 2. Just asking for a contingency wipe out of the league.
Why did i read this in christian bale's voice? 😂
"Alfred, unleash SCP-106 in the hall of justice"
Wally at several points tries to get the league to come clean, why wasn’t he told Batman already knows everything the first time he tried to get them to come clean
Because Identity crisis isn't the most complex or well written event. The bigger issue is how casually it throws around a character being r***d as a plot device in the backstory.
@@TangledLion what were the interactions like, Wally runs up hey Wonder Woman you need to come clean to Batman about wiping his memory.
How can you be told that and not tell him he already knows, or did Wally come in tell the people then run off before they could tell him he already knows
@@LCBK So I went to explain your question and accidently went on a Rant about the book because I had to look up the details, so I'll just tell you and leave my rant below. There isn't really an interaction in the story itself where Wally tells Batman. He just keeps telling Green Arrow Someone should tell Bruce but he NEVER does in the story itself. He's just Awkward around bruce and doesn't SAY it. Its just hinted at towards the story's end and then its confirmed in an issue of JLA later.
So the setup is Wally and Kyle are running around with Green Arrow who is the main pov for the league members who did the mind wipes. The league members involved were Zatanna, Atom (Ray Palmer), Black Canary, Hawkman, Hal Jordan, and a reluctant Barry Allen. We are getting bits and pieces from Arrow along with Wally and Kyle as they are pursuing a lead on the murder of Sue Dibny, wife of Elongated Man. And Oliver is kinda tight lipped about details because he was feeling guilty about it I guess? It isn't given much room to cook and breathe and ends up half baked because all this? The Mind Wipes from league members on several occasions? The recon that Sue was r****d by Dr. Light(Which we only find out AFTER she's killed off at the story's beginning)? It's only ONE plot lie in a mini series that ALSO Kills several more characters for reasons that mean little to nothing to the overall murder mystery its supposed to be about. Captain Boomerang and Tim Drake's Dad mutually Ice one another, Firestorm is killed because *checks notes* he's STABBED by a sword and thus goes Nuclear. And finally, the story ends with an ending that, only really factors in clues first introduced like, AT THE END of the penultimate issue and is impossible to solve as you go along, which is part of the FUN of a mystery story...
Is this the storyline that turned Dr. Light into a rpasit? @@TangledLion
@concept5631 The very same!
Thats a horrifying thought, you wiped someone mind of specific memories against their will, except the "victim" knows and is just contemplating how he should rip everyone a new one
Well, with Dr. Light they not only wiped his memory but also gave him a new personality and basically made him a punching bag for the Teen Titans. Bruce had to wonder if they had done anything else to him.
Yeah Bruce had every right to be pissed
How did Batman found out and regained his memories?
@wh1plashhhhhh his subconscious is what led to him eventually connecting the dots and creating his more extreme contingencies
Legends never die? You’re playing.
Respect to Wally and Clark for being understandably angry with what they did to Bruce, true bros right there.
They don't like a lot things about Batman, but know him well enough to know that *someone* has to be "the bad guy" among the superheroes so there would be consequences for those who do BS like this.
@@girl1213 Not to mention that only both of them have given the green light for Batman to take them down when necessary. They are the only members humble enough to accept that shit happens.
@@kado3661 And Batman did the same thing with them. He's smart enough to know that, at the end of the day, no matter what his plans are: the League CAN put him down. Especially if they recruit people he doesn't know (which is rare, but happens) and many other factors since Batman *never* forgets how human he is due to how his parents' died.
Superman and Flash were the real ones to batman, it is a little frustrating that he made plans also for them though
Yeah but what if the flash became evil the only reason the reverse flash doesn’t kill Barry is because it would wipe himself from existence. If the reverse flash had nothing holding him back he would kill every hero in the universe and about two seconds.
That's how Batman is. Always prepared for the worst case scenario and prepared to do the work that no one else wants to do, or do it himself so they don't have to.
@@weilandjones592 This is Wally though.
Superman gave Batman the kryptonite ring to beat him with in the event that he turns evil or is mind controlled. So at least he was complicit in the plan.
@@RobinRhombus2he literally just got held down and mindwiped by people he thought he trusted and legit could not do anything. Batman is already paranoid but this event made his paranoia for super powered crusaders even worse.
The Utter fear and hopelessness of the line
*"He already knows we are just waiting for what he does next"*
They know he gna desteoy em all
The bill comes due and it'll be steep and there will be no defense they can present.
I appreciate how its pretty consistent that when Ollie has to keep a heavy secret it weights on him.
It's funny because he was against it but followed through because everyone else was going to go through it no matter what
That kids is called peer pressure
@@MrEndstage If he didn't go through with it, they would have mindwiped him of the events also. But honestly, should have just gone through and then snitched if it really went against his values.
@johnlucas2838 be fair Ollie does have or did really have a huge pride. If he really fucked up he has trouble coming clean like when he abandoned his son
Flash is just the best friend in comics
Him and Spider-Man
No matter which version
Or is it Green Lantern?
Until he’s not.
He does hold the team together without him you get the justice lords.
"Why would Batman ever need contingency plans for the League?"
Exhibit A:
i swear it a matter of time befor Alfred find out. and if he did. hell will go lose
Alfred is dead
@@totallynotinsane3327now not 19 years ago.
Injustice Alfred 💀
I think the entire bat family and even the teen titans where extremely pissed off when they found out to the point they wanted nothing to do with the league
@@shadewolf0075 you are right they also tried turning dick against him and he was pissed and told Batman about them attempting to get him to turn on Bruce
My main issue is how what they did to Dr.Light is morally justifiable if you wanna argue it. HOWEVER what they did to Batman was absolutely not. They weren't doing it to protect anyone else. They did it cause they knew others would dissagree with what they did and so they decided to hide it. Frankly at that point just kill the guy. Violating his very being to rewrite his personality is basically murder just without the messy cleanup
Honestly, at that point, it’s not even about the actual morality of action it’s just about keeping the no kill rule
@d_3634 can you explain the circumstances around the dr.light mind wipe? cause if it is the one I'm thinking of I can't see it justified in the slightest.
Though I'm not all that big on comics so it could be different
@@paulmatthias3627 haven't read fhat bit as much, but from what I've heard Dr.Light killed Elongated Man's wife and also knew some secret identities. So they wiped Elongated Man's memory so he forgot he ever had a wife (at his request I believe) and also straight up labotomized Dr.Light to make him forget everything and have a new less messed up personality. Batman walked in on that part and obviously was not ok with it, so they wiped his mind of that 10 min or so. Then they got mad at him when he had 0 trust in the league going forward.
@@d_3634he didn't just kill his wife, he SA'ed her first and THEN killed her.
Which is exactly why I'm on the side of the Justice League for this.
Where they crossed the line was when they erased Batman's memories as well since at that point all they were doing was covering up what they did to save face.
@prophecybydefault4708 light didn't kill her. It was the atoms ex that did it accidentally as part of a plan to get back with him
For those interested it didn't end well. Batman got so paranoid he built an Orbiting AI called Brother Eye that was tasked with collecting Intel on Super heroes. During its tenure it was....
Hacked by Rah's to find Batman's contingencies, which he used to incapacitate them during the Tower of Babel Arc
Taken over by Maxwell Lord who used it to create OMACs (think Prime Sentinels but forced) who he uses to try to wipe out all Superheroes. While he ended up killed by wonder woman his plan led to Ted Kord's death and damage of Thmyscira after wonder woman killed him;
Given sentience by a the Son of Lex Luther from an Alternate Reality so that he could use him to rebuild the multiverse, right up until he's shot out of the sky by a team including batman and mister terrific.
Took over a nuked Bludhaven after getting revived by an Ex-wayne scientist, tried assimilating apocalypse, and was the forerunner of the virus that created Kamandi's AD World
This seems like a good lead up to stories. Like something that doesn't seem so major ends up altering the whole world
Ant-Man: “Sucks doesn’t it?”
And just to clarify. Does Brother Eye become a future Past version of Brainiac or is that just DCUOnline?
Brother Eye just sounds like Elon’s satellites. I don’t trust those. Scratch that. I don’t trust any of what I don’t know unless I know it’s God.
@@jamesryder8305Just Dcuo from what i remember.
An angry Batman is a road that even super powered gods fear, John better start smoking
Batman: “Hmm, weird, can’t remember yesterday even though I have a photogenic memory… hmm, lemme just, check the Watchtower’s security cameras probably nothing too cra- - *OOOOOH MYYYY GOD* “
Superman is an real homie to batman. Makes me like him a little bit more
Ha! 52 likes.
@@Ian_sothejokeworks do I look like I care?
@@Ian_sothejokeworks virgin
@ms.pirate You don't look like anything. It was a comic-related joke.You can go back to assuming everything is an attack on you.
A real homie*
ftfy
"Justice League Not Proving Batman's 'Paranoia' Is Just Logic, Actually" Challenge level, impossible
People get upset over Bruce’s plans but when you realize stuff like this happens can you blame him?
And the fact that these weren’t the “heavy” hitters. It’s Green Arrow and Zatanna.
My main problem is that only he knows about the plans. It's like having a safety protocol but only one staff knows about it.
@@NotFreecduh think about it
U tell superman ur plans to stop him
When he gets mind control whats stopping the dude to make somethig to counter that contingency plan?
Those plans could only work cause of element of surprise
And against god like beings thats the ONLY way to make it work
@@NotFreec Not true. Other members of the bat family like Grayson and Drake know Batman well enough to realize the plans exist. It's just that they have never needed to go looking for them.
Batman: Welp, time to use my contingency plans
Superman: Imma head out.
Superman knows
With all of this happening to bat man they had lot of guts to accessing him in tower of babel they just gave him reasons to do all of that
Tower of Babel happened because of Ra's Al ghul tho
"Is there a problem Wally?"
"Say what your thinking"
-Batman (most scary shit to here from him, only second to him laughing)
That is a truly amazing moment in that comic. Great writing, great art, superb storytelling. It nails those two characters with very little to no dialogue. Amazing stuff
See erasing memories and altering personalities? This is the type of shit that makes Batman so paranoid about heroes becoming villains!
For anyone that wants to know, the fallout from identity crisis is called "crisis of conscience" and it starts at JLA (1997) #115
🙌🏿
Thank you for this
Bruce: Man I can't remember what happened last night, must have been fighting Scarecrow again.
The Batcomputer: About that....
That why both batman and superman are supreme hero of DC never go beyond the line no matter circumstances unlike anyone the morale hold them back always making decisions only for the best for others not themselves most of the time
Don't forget that the ones doing the mind wiping were also the ones in Cry for Justice out looking to put prometheus into a body bag.
@@abrashio Seriously, FIRE those guys from the Justice League! 🤦♂️
What's the issue when batman reveals he knew about the mind wipe. I really want to read that
I don't know the exact issue but someone said that it starts from JLA (1997) issue 115
Wally the GOAT West Ladies and gentlemen
Batman: *stops paying energy bill for the justice leagues satellite*
Batman: "the only reason I haven't evicted you from MY satellite is because it's easy surveillance."
I just love the line about Batman's retaliation
Such a cold ass line
It sure was
The fact that Dr. Light is just a gag character these days is insane. Also realistically Bats should always be the one that the JL should truly fear.
Dr. Light became a gag character supposedly because of this. I'm trying to find the titans run where they mention it. Wally mentions it during identity crisis but thats about it.
That makes sense it would just be a massive shock for a kid to be watching Teen Titans Go and decide to look up some of the characters, and stumble upon this
I like that people bring up the justifications of the tower of babble incident but forgetting that the legue that did the thing wasn't the members who got affect by the plans
Tower of Babel is his plans being used by someone else to hurt the league. He didn't do anything bar have contingencies in case they went evil. It doesn't matter who it affected it is just a plan he made, he didn't actually put them into place that was Ras Al Ghul. So again it is still fine and makes complete sense.
except Martian Manhunter, who was on Batman's side during the vote
Yeah, it’s more of blanket paranoia.
Think if it like this, Batman doesn’t know who to trust. Even his childhood friend turned on him, so naturally he prepared even for those who he wouldn’t normally suspect.
This includes league members who weren’t present.
That makes it worse. The League in Tower of Babble is THE Justice League, the best of the team. If some lesser members could do this, what's stopping the A-Listers from doing the same or worse?
when superman and flash both look at you like you fucked up.... you've fucked up. MAYBE one of them disagreeing you can actually be right?
But the heart AND the soul of all superheroes? helll nah you've fallen.
My first thought is "you took the memories of BATMAN and you honestly don't think he'd notice.. The Worlds Greatest Detective". That's not smart.. That is the one guy being secretive around will not work and Flash is smart enough to know that. Plus the Big 3 look at each other as Family because they've been through so much together
They lost Batman, Superman and possibly Wally over that lol what a decision.
This must be before Dr. Light created Mega Man X
Underrated comment
I wouldn't be scared of Batman retaliation , I would be terrified of Alfred
People underestimate Alfred. There is no force on this earth that will save you from him if you hurt his family. You'll survive Batman, you won't survive Alfred.
John: "Listen wally! Bats already knows! I havent slept in a month! He's torturing us for this already! Dont you see wally!"
What did batman do about this?
I mean in great detail and the teams reactions of his decision.
This is the inciting incident for his more drastic contingency plans, including Brother Eye.
Its crazy how easy it is to justify and defend Batman's beliefs when shit like this happens. The worst part is that Batman hates being proven right though and thinfs are tripping over themselves to prove him right.
They decided to wipe memories of Doctor Light to protect families and make him a lesser threat. Batman started the fight to stop them. If anything that proves that for a Batman it is just a sick game that he does not want to win.
@@ГригорийГ-ч4нBatman is always about doing what he thinks is right
@@ГригорийГ-ч4нyeah because that’s what heroes do, they lobotomize people, Batman can handle a few murderers in the team but to lobotomize someone is something else, then get your mind wiped by practically your first and oldest friend, that’s a new level of a dick move
@@ГригорийГ-ч4н NGL I feel like fucking with someone mentally like that is on a whole other level of evil. And Batman has always hated manipulating people's minds. He even has a villain or THREE who do that to people constantly.
@@Steven-hc1vy Batman is always about sticking to his rules and forcing others to do it. But... just how much did his rules actually made Gotham a safer city?
Funnily enough wiping batmans memories, or even changing would be the best contingency for him. No more guilt or grief, he would just move on with his life and his 5-7 children
Nah. He's been memory wiped before, and that causes his backup personality to take control. This backup personality is essentially a MUCH more extreme and reckless Batman without Bruce's memories holding him back.
Martian Manhunter knows batman knows because he can read minds.
You should make a full length video on this whole debacle
Honestly, what those 7 did to Bats justifies his contingency plans against them much more than any of them falling to mind control. At least under mind control, they have the excuse that they werent in control of themselves. But what they did to Bats was a conscious effort, one which they knew would turn out badly when its revealed but they did so anyways. And for what reason they did this, a simple disagreement. That move alone removed any trust he could have for them and that by itself is one thing they will regret.
Clark is truly a ride or die
That generic, overused term needs to end. 🤦
@@Meldrick-jv7sy Cry about it .
Justice League: *Mind wipes Batman*
Batman’s Bat Body-cam: Oh, word?
As a dude thats kinda left the DC comics fandom and fell into UFC shit.
I was fuckin suprised when i heard "john jones"
A lot of the bat family also blames them for Bruce’s paranoia and distressfulness afterwards
I mean *fair enough* considering they basically FULLY JUSTIFIED it
Just like the cartoon flash is the reason the JL haven’t unknowingly become cruel dictators
The thing is. Superman knows what they're doing to these villains. But chooses not to do anything about it is even darker man 😅
To be fair, it is said that one of the reasons they started mindwiping villains after Dr. Light, was because the villains managed to find their Secret IDs. I don't think Superman would be complicit with mind wipes, but he would understand why the league did those.
"oh he knows. Now we waiting on what he gon do. For all we know we are dead and this is the after life, bats is that scary so if you wanna tell him be my guest"
Batman was known for his paranoia, enemy, friend, it didn't matter to him. He had plans to neutralize all of them should worst come to worst, all they did was justify it and make him more paranoid.
Batman will make contingencies like this but doesn’t have the ability to lobby to get joker the death penalty
Not his job
The thing about Bats is that what he does falls into the gray area of the law. It isn't legal but it hasn't gotten to the level where it's against the law yet either. The reason he advocates so heavily that no one on his squad or the JL kill anyone is that the moment they do, they've crossed the line into the black, becoming a criminal. Contrary to popular belief as what most fans care, murder is a seriously judged crime. The moment one of them kills, the police are obligated to treat them as criminals. Sure, Batman does a lot of assault on criminals, horrendously so, but he ensures that they stay alive and he can forever pay for the treatment of those criminals later as Bruce. That said, he doesn't play judge, jury or executioner for any of them, no matter how badly he wants cuz that removes him from the gray zone he operates in. And as far as Gotham is concerned, him operating in the gray area reduces the overall crime rate, which they want, but the criminals are left with the people to deal with. From the start, the Joker being allowed to escape the death penalty was never Batman's fault as its not his job to prosecute, judge or execute him. If anything, that's on Gotham lawmakers. Not to mention, what was stopping Gordon or any police on duty from pumping lead into the Joker's entire body after they got him into custody? Batman can't due to him working in the gray area, so what's stopping an already corrupt cop that's gonna face jail time or someone who's lost family at Joker's hand in the force from ending him?
Batman: you just proved my point in making contingency plans
It would have been cool if the Batman mind wipe explained that Asshole Batman phase went through
It’s a sad day for the league when even superman wouldn’t be able to out justify Batman and he leaves them to batmans fury
Man if I found out about it I'm forgiving batman for the contingency plans
Batman is a walking “I fcking told you so.”
Meet the Leagues.
Yeah, lie to the dude responsible for most of the planning that happens within the league...
Even in a fight its mostly batman giving orders
This is how it happened….this is when the bat knew he’d have to put the league in their place for having to jump him. But at least they have enough common sense to be scared of his retaliation. I’d be heated if green arrow helped in jumping me he’d be first on the list to catch a fade
Wally West was completely in the right, so much so even Superman noped out of the team
And people wonder why he has contingencies for other heroes.
What’s more angering about this is that this is one of the moments that kicked off Batman building Brother Eye and we all know how that turned out. Still how is that when it come fiction how is that I can only name two heroes who make A.I’s better then Hank Pym or Bruce?
And yet they still mad that bruce got contingency plans for them😂
The reason why he has those is because of stuff like this, because at the end of the day, he's still a human in a room full of godlike beings that can absolutely destroy a country at the very least if they ever wanted to.
Well if I understand this the mind wipe makes both the tower of babel and bother eye incidents the leagues fault.
Wally West is simply one of the greatest written heroes ever
Wow the only 2 members of the justice league that had a problem with wiping Batman’s mind was Superman and the Flash that is so disappointing and sad.
It the League thought what they did to Dr.Light was right they should have just caught Batman and lobotomized him Dr.Light. But by wiping Batman's memory, it shows they know what they did is wrong.
Yeah, but what would you do if well know serial rapist started targetting your familly and you can't kill someone who is already in custody?
Wait what? He knows? And they just waiting for Batman to F them up? The gulls on those leaguers are incredible because I would try to handle Batman the moment I knew he knew what I knew that I didn’t want him to know.
Justice League: Why do you have contingency plans for us?
Batman: This is why
JL mind wipes Batman.
Batman - "I know."
Yes doing this to the guy who practically pays everything for the league.
Basically the league Proving Batman he was right about his Contingency Plans.
Given the biblical landslide of a tire fire of events that happened all because of Dr. Light basically being made into the worst scum possible as if to justify all the participants to be set on their paths for the inevitable mega event comic to come later, I feel like all of this could have been prevented had they just sent the guy to prison and let the inmates once they found out take care of the problem themselves.
The problem is that he knew their identities and who their loved ones were.
Batman calling Flash: Don't come to the Hall of Justice tomorrow...
Its a fair game for all of Bats crazy contingencies
Wally getting batman memories back:
CW barry beating the shit out of batgirl:
Dr. Light: **mindwipe**
"Hell yeah!"
Batman: **mindwipe**
_"GODDAMMIT!!!"_
funnily enough this makes him more paranoid and leads to his development of the contingency plans
Please tell me you’re gonna cover when Dr. Light with his memories goes after the Teen Titans. His fight with Superboy and Wondergirl was soooo damn cool!
Out of all the people who you could fuck with like that Batman is the number one no no
I don't remember Superman ever finding out they messed with Batman's memories and quitting tho. At the end it was just Batman eyeing Wally knowingly that something is wrong
It has been a long time, but it's implied that Superman found out, but decided not to get involved in that shit.
I don't think he actually leaves the League, but rather that he was too busy to help at the time. Things were going to hell in a handbasket then, Superman was deliberately overstretched - between Ruin, OMACs, magic weirdness, Max Lord, the Secret Society, etc etc - Superman was too busy trying to fight a million fires.
Flash is the guy you’d want to have your back in real life. Solid dude you can always count on 💪🏿🇺🇸🔥🇺🇸🔥🇺🇸✊🏿
Yeah nessing with bruces mind was bad but light deserved what he got scratch that he deserves worse sometimes these heroes and civilians treat other heroes worsebghan the evil villians
Batman has always feared the Justice League going rogue and this event justifies his contingency plans.
From what heard this is the origins of why he made them in the first place
Also, Batman is like all of their bosses.He paid for everything and pretty much if they work anywhere.They're probably working for him.Okay, he's got a business and a little bit of everything.That's how he has so much control
Batman: you forgot my hidden memory bank
You mean the Bat Brain Bank
You know you messed up when Superman leaves
If you think about this, it gets even worse. It was after his mind wipe that Light became a joke of a Teen Titans villain. The JL let a known RAPIST in the proximity of their child and teen charges!!
It’s those moments in comics when you realize that things like Tower of Babel plans are positive. Sure, heroes can see those things as negative, as they tell how to defeat superheroes, but Batman understands better than anyone that superheroes are only humans (mortals? Flawed?) values can change, and that with them being vigilantes that don’t fallow laws, someone needs to be vigilant against them.
There is a moment in the Justice league animated show, when green arrow says he understands the fear from meta humans and that he himself fear the members of the league. It’s those kind of actions that make the Justice league so fearsome.
In the story, they were wiping out dr light memory and batman didn't agree to it, because of that they wipe batman memory as well.
So let me get this right! " I understand this is a comic book," but...they mind wipe a murderous rapist who is just a headache to the Teen Titans. And apparently, that's what's sets off the morals of the mind wipe? I get story arch and character development, but this is just stupid, 😅😂
they mind wipe him to turn INTO that.
They erase everything about him and rewrite his mind only for him to come back as Dr Light anyway. What's worse is that, as easily as they mindwipe Light, they wiped Batman with less discussion.
Wow I know a lot about Wally west and by that I mean A LOT but every time I find out something new it just reminds me that he is my favourite character in all of fiction
Wally best flash
@@Imflashguys Facts
Identity Crisis is TO THIS DAY my favorite DC Comics story and I CAN'T recommend it enough!
Batman already knows.... I felt shivers
The flash has always been the heart of the justice league.
Watching your shorts makes me late for valorant deathmatch but i love it