@@Boles_ i think ur probably best off asking val or tmraven on acd about it, theyre the resident experts iirc but i do remember there being talks about parsec in general
I missed the good old Verdict Day when we can play different roles in our team not just trying to stagger like this. -Hard lock encourage close range engagement. -AB can't go backward means the pursuer can attack easier make hit&run tactic not so good. -Stagger make sure that heavy-weight stand to gain more ground than light-weight. Also make hit&run bad. -Ricochet destroy long-range pop-shotter. I means, those are big ass projectiles fired from a big ass gun barrel. How can it losed velocity at just 500 metres when real life high calibre bullet can penetrate steel with ease? The above reasons kill sniper and almost all light-weight. Just give us World Boss!!! These mechanics may not look so good in PvP but it is sure as hell better in PvE!
I’d like to see an ECM function come into the game to avoid some of these problems. Both a passive ECM stat (built into heads or something for instance) that would counter the enemy ACs lock on accuracy. And more active ECM options like the smoke launcher, like chaff missiles and launchers, missile diverting flares and ect to help make light and very light builds more viable and fun.
They should jsut re-integrate turn speed. A little mech game called HAMMER does turn speed expertly, the mech is still unlocked from the camera however the mech doesnt compeltely follow it, having to turn. With that however arms will reach out from the body to hit shots which i find a very great mechanic. This would solve alot of issues especially for lightweights vs heavyweights i feel
@@invyt oh yeah i played it 2 days ago. Its fucking hard XD. Ill say tho its probs because i dont really understand the stats and such but it reminds me of when i first picked up Ac5 on the emulator
ong range in general is so hard to build for. other that the stun needle so many weapons have such short effective range that it makes me wonder why there are long range FCSs in the game at all
I was competitive in generation 1-3 games. My builds were either glass-cannon sniper builds, or super-lightweight builds with like only handguns. I never had any defense, I just wouldn’t get hit. I can’t really do either of those anymore. There aren’t any sniper rifles in the game. I’m bummed about that
I am pretty sure it already operates like this. I've been hard locked onto someone and sped past them in which my reticle lock is broken but is still hard locked, having to wait for my body to rotate before regaining reticle lock
generally speaking your hard lock on will usually follow the enemy, even during fast movements, but hard lock on can be broken by simply moving the camera manually it seems, which I think a lot of people, especially on pc do by accident.@@ratking1330
@@ratking1330 It doesn't quite operate like OP states, yes your reticle has to catch up even when hardlocked, but it has nothing to do with part stats, and there is no turning speed stat whatsoever. The heaviest, chonkiest tank will turn in hard lock at the same rate a full nachtreiher light does, and that just isn't right. It is one of the reasons light builds are so shafted in this game, alongside AB making the speed difference negligible between weight classes as well
AC6 was designed as a PvE game. I think Co-op PvE would be really healthy overall for the game. As for PVP, i just dont think the core systems in the game lend itself to pvp very well. I think I'd rather have a game designed for pvp rather than the sucky laggy instant killing teleporting multiplayer we have now. Its fun, but they seriously need to address the netcode, its genuinely infuriating to get hit by invisible attacks and get staggered 1 second after you clearly dodged the projectile. Close range burst impact builds are just gonna do super well in those kind of conditions. Half of the time i dont even see the animation for assault armor even get triggered and just get stunned instantly by an A posing mech with 0 cues. A modern take dedicated to the pvp experience rather than trying to tool the game to be something its not I feel is the best course of action
Remember: Armored Core 4 wasn't a fantastic game at launch. it took a Regulation patch to turn it into the Speed-Force Simulator that it is today. I'm hoping something similar comes from AC6. Possibly a DLC that adds weapons for *actual* long-ranged combat and means to counter the current meta builds. also the FINGER. because the FINGER is hilarious and I want it back.
But 1.0 AC4 and 1.6 AC4 aren't even that different speed-wise....... Most of what they did was just giving more energy and buffing heavies. It took them an entire new game to turn it into a speed-force simulator.
@@val1703 Oh, my mistake. But still, I have faith in Fromsoft to shake the game up enough with the major patches to get the game in at least a better place PVP wise.
Weapons range and projectile velocity need to be increased in general (except for some) and the ricochet mechanic to be deleted, instead, they should add a simple damage drop off if you shoot at higher range. Zimmermans are the best kinetic weapons mostly because they don't suffer from this ricochet mechanic, I mean they are made for short range in the first place meanwhile for the others, you have to cautiously look at the distance between you and other AC's because a single foot out of the effective range results into no damage a all.
My biggest issue is the ricochet mechanic it discourages people (both single and multiplayer) fighting at long range with most weapons as you cant do proper damage if you step even 1 inch away from the range (not to mention there’s a lack of snipers or long range rifle) 5thgen got the range right with damage/ballistic drop off as it decreases per out of range not just flat out negated the shot
And the biggest issue is that the effective range stat is basically inaccurate. Because based on the enemy type effective range becomes obsolete and you only have to look at ideal range. One of the Linear rifles I like to use has an ideal range of 190 and effective range of like 330m or something. that effective range basically gets deleted against enemies like tetrapods MTs who seemingly are so armored up that it cuts down my effective range down to like 200 meters. barely more than the ideal range. making it as useful as the assault rifles. And even the charged up shots are not spared from it, despite having more power behind each shot. The game has way too many mechanics that just encourage close range or discourage anything beyond close range.
Yeah, my AC6 PVP experience died hard. Mid to long-range is pretty much non-existent, which's just unfortunate. I also think the maps that we got for pvp aren't too good either. Watchpoint delta... really; I think some of these maps don't belong and, if anything, need to be redesigned.There's a serious lack of depth when it comes to pvp gameplay right now. It's going to take a lot of change I feel to get more out of it.
I miss the armored core PvP parking garage only 4 foot taller than ACs so the vertical element was removed from play. Sounds dumb but that made games soooo much more interesting and fun. That coral cave one from AC6 which the branching tunnels and caverns would be a good one too
i think mid and long range could work but requires mastery of the manual aiming perk. Not a lot of good choices rn when it comes to long range but i can see some weapons working well in the midrange. The autolock system simply does not work well against pvp players at mid to long range. Which is why we rely on stagger a lot
Honestly, I feel like the best solution would be to increase the range of everything except stuff like MGs, pistols and shotguns. Seeing nothing but [RICOCHET] when you go out of range feels so disappointing when you're still closer than you'd like. That and it has the 1st-game-in-a-new-gen issue where there is not enough new parts to allow for diversity in builds. 2 MGs? 3 shotguns including the energy one? More bipeds than there are other legs combined? It may be a simpler more approachable Assembly, but it's one that lacks the ability to really diversify your build. It especially punishes lightweight and RJ builds which rely on hit and run and longrange tactics
I’m hoping that they buff gun ranges and then add in way more parts in a dlc, possibly actual sniper weapons. Another good thing would be to buff the projectile speed for stuff like the linear rifles, make it really hard to dodge weapons that are meant to be long range, at the very least do it for the charged shots.
I also hope they make it so that the charge up shots from linear rifles (the acting sniper rifles) don't suffer from ricochet within effective range. it feels odd that your charged up shot will still ricochet against certain enemies, even though it seemingly has more power behind it, I assume.@@samnunnink7575
@@samnunnink7575for real, increasing bullet velocity wouldn’t change the balance much because you still can’t capitalize on stagger as well at long range. But it would add a ton more build variety
3:29 I'd also point out that at least for RJ legs, its almost impossible to hit a kick *without* hard lock on. The range is so much longer with RJs that if you arent in perfect range or your target is moving at all, youll just fly right past them
You mentioned the removal of hard lock for PvP, personally if they were to do this they should also limit turn speed. BUT have it not limited by parts, every AC gets the same flat turn speed. This would prevent M&KB front becoming the defacto winner 24/7 AND give quickturn an actual purpose in game. Speaking of quickturn, due to hard lock I've seen no one ever bring up just how stupid the input of it feels. You'd expect to perform a move that quickly turns your camera 180 degrees would use the analog stick that turns your camera, but no the stick that does it is the one that moves you instead. Also requiring you to press the toggle thrust button, meaning a missed input turns off your thrusters leaving you dead in the water. It just doesn't feel right to perform and has too much risk associated with it in a game where I've seen the camera do a 2160 degree turn on a dime in less than a second with no input.
this. i depend on controller a lot (Its just easier to react with it) and if Hard Lock got removed, my style would get torn in two. And I don't feel like relearning the entire game with M&KB.
Turn speed can be negated if someone can amp mouse sensitivity. I'd say a fix could be having the turn be gradual, like if you were telling a turret to turn, would work better. A movement of the mouse, and the crosshair takes longer to reach that place. Shorter changes of aiming would be less noticible, but it will be heavier with more.
Yeah i so agree with this. Of all things mention. I would go for getting rid that hard lock on. Just make pilot made use of that thumb stick OR mouse to look around + use of quick turn os chips. Now thats skill. Back in 3rd gen. I use that quick 180 shoulder extension + OB COMBO. To get away from their fcs sight.
Honestly the only change that needs to be made, besides net code, is weapon ranges. With how compressed the weapon ranges are, there's little way for any other weapon to compete with shotguns or gatlings, while there's no answer to missiles except for missiles. As for your other complaints, increasing the ranges reduces the utility of hard lock because you're not forced to knife fight, you can always AB away from your foe and with longer ranges punish slower short ranged builds, while now that you can properly kite kick spam becomes far less effective.
It'd be a stopgap but if someone could figure out how to reroute the connection to avoid EAC there are some promising attempts to rebalance at least some of these problems. It'd really come down to being able to test it in a pvp environment to see how well they work
Pvp needs a lot more Room options for custom games. -parts restriction settings to keep build variation and encourage use of parts that would otherwise be passed over in favor of power weapons. -AP increase like you mentioned so matches can be longer and more consistent for strategy -range increase across the board. It would be nice to feel like rifles are at all viable. -more map options so we don’t constantly see the same 3. -2v2 just so playing with friends doesn’t require at least 1 or 2 randos. -I’d even say cut stagger build up by 30%
I love love love my lightweight laser pistols build based all around running circles around my enemy while peppering them with a storm of lasers from drones and turrents from all angles... a little too much. I've tried branching out into longer ranged builds and have consistently hit a brick wall with anything that doesn't use missiles as a crutch. My only remotely functional "long" ranged build is a medium biped using hal parts to sort of vaguely imitate white glint, but not that closely. This build, despite running dual Ransetsu RFs, feels more like a missile boat in practice, since most of my damage and stagger build up comes almost exclusively from the JVLN back missile alongside a split missile I chose at random, and which misses about 50% of the time. I tried so hard to make the rifles work, but they basically just add pressure until the JVLN goes off, so I caved and swapped to the missile FCS. And man it's really making me wish they'd massively buff the ranges to everything except the shotguns. I feel like a lot of issues, while not fixed, could be mitigated to at least some degree if they didn't make everything so close ranged. At first I was pretty excited about the generally closer range, because I knew I wanted to try out melee and fast zippy builds, but in the end I'm siding with the oldhead nerds on this one, generally longer ranges could totally help diversify the game without just turning it into 4th gen.
@@ballsack8937 have you considered the fact that they look cool and match with loose the loose white glint inspo? Like yeah obviously plasma missiles would be better, but I feel like if someone's using a wacky missile option, it's because they're actively choosing too, not because they just don't know there are better options
@@Ezekiel_Allium but you said you were vaguely imitating white glint. Are you trying to stay true to glints load out or not? I'm confused. I understand keeping the accuracy of the build, but your first comment didn't imply you were going for one to one build accuracy.
@@ballsack8937 I'm not, but I mainly wanted to go for the vague look, and a bit of the functionality with dual rifles and at least one split missile. The original idea was to use the split missiles as a harassment tool while an active homing missile was chasing them, but I dropped that in favor of the javelin since its basically just a homing missile but better
In previous games there used to be an attack power stat calculated on your AC. They need to add it back in so you could have attack power limits on pvp rooms. They could probably put projectile velocity back in as a stat and increase it for weapons that are made for mid or long range.
I think adding projectile velocity back is a great idea, but those combined stats from the old games were never a great indicator of how your AC would actually do.
@@invyt yeah the attack power stat was abit out there in the other games. Tough to figure out a way to keep it balanced so everyone can still have fun.
I'm not super hot on the idea of increasing HP, id rather implement other changes and see how that shakes out first since I think the pacing of MP matches feels ok at the moment. I agree that more HP is definitely a better solution than repair kits in MP, repair kits were an interesting experiment but imo they're not fun, especially when the enemy gets them too. in sp repair kits just make burst damage even more important, with stuff like chainsaw, pilebunker, dual stun needle, etc being god tier because it can kill enemies before they use their kits. Removing hard lock entirely feels a bit too severe and would totally gimp controller players, the idea I had was to make hard lock follow the FCS leading rather than the enemy's actual position so hard lock effectiveness is dependent on the FCS. This could probably be paired with a harsher debuff to FCS performance when hardlocked to disincentivize it more. I agree that assault boost's impact damage buff should be removed, but Imo the increased impact damage resistance should stay. Assault boost is a nessecary evil to prevent thicc builds from being constantly kited, and at least keeping the impact damage resistance is important to reduce the likelihood of getting stopped during AB. Instead, I think the dodge reload time during assault boost should be increased from ~0.5sec to 1 sec, since from what I've seen the short dodge reload time is what makes assault boost nearly untouchable 100% agree with you on increasing the range of linear rifles and rifles. Making their effective range less than a boost's distance away from touch range just feels terrible to play. I think the game was going for a dichotomy where lasers have better base dps but bullets have better impact damage and direct hit, and imo I don't see a problem with that. Making both bullets and lasers deal good damage but low stagger may result in them stepping on each other's toes but this is one of those things where I don't think i'll mind it too much either way. Either way, I think this video overall has pretty good takes, here's hoping fromsoft notices this (or at least the changes proposed becomes popular enough)
I can see nerfing the additional stagger from assault boost but removing the damage mitigation might be going too far. I will say that some kinetic weapons could definitely use a range buff, specifically to the Ideal Range stat. the Linear Rifles would benefit greatly and better act as Sniper Rifles. adding in some actual Kinetic Snipers would be nice as well.
Man in AC6 we can’t even 2v2 because the room has to be full to sortie. Several really bizarre design choices they made. I feel like the head director just really hates pvp players
To be fair, the range aspect and melee issues are somewhat negated in 3v3s. For example you see way more quad builds that would rather play helicopter support with missiles and miniguns, snipers and laser cannons/stunneedle, or all grenade launchers + artillery, than you would see in 1v1, of course this brings in a range and touhou aspect that you wouldnt see (used effectively) in 1v1s. Not to mention tread missile/artillery and coral builds that use range and touhou attacks. Keep in mind when I say "range," Im talking about viable distance from the enemy where you can spam attacks from a distance while still being able to dodge and maintain distance from your target at maximum range. Doesn't mean that melee is useless though, just way more balanced in the fact that there are three targets, and the different builds will constantly keep you on your toes. So all in all, 3v3s are more for balanced PvP. I'm not counting zimmermans though, those are unbalanced devil weaponry no matter the circumstance.
one thing you got to keep in mind too is this is a relatively new game and most players rn are still improving on their movement and combat. As the game gets older we’ll probably start to see more diversity in builds. As you get better and better and play against better opponents, it becomes harder to simply rely on for example your double zimmermans and stagger advantage. Better players understand their matchup better, have better movement, and have more knowledge on how to play against a meta builds. Positioning will probably be an important factor for anyone trying to make a mid to long range build work. Definitely a higher skill ceiling compared to close range builds
I feel like the awful lobby system deserves mention too. I recognised it almost immediately, it’s basically the exact same thing as Ace Combat 7’s multiplayer. It sucked there and it sucks here. Another common thread the two games share is how it’s pure deathmatch as well, there’s some scope in both games for some interesting objective based scenarios or maybe even co-op pve or something. But nah, deathmatch is all you get. Feels like a lack of imagination. At least AC6 doesn’t hate cosmetic options behind the game’s dead multiplayer like AC7 does.
To defendchardlock it's necessary on controller. The joystick doesnt have the control or speed to maintain softlock against assaultboosting build or qb lightweights up close. It wpuldnt be nearly as necessary if we had the combat ranges of previous games though.
@@invyt true. Granted I only ever got to play the pvp of ac5 and verdict day. If we had a button to force 90 degree turns in a softlock it'd help if it's in the game call me ignorant. I've yet to see it used by anyone while trying to figure out if I could in game.
@@xenosayain1506 V and Verdict Day didn't have a quick turn, but had a drift turn which allowed you to turn much much faster than normal. You would also get a turn speed bonus when kicking off walls.
Boost kick needs a cool down like 3 seconds...I have a few very good ideas for pvp but I'll be wasting my time I'm just an small ant out here. also I want co-op hopefully they have plans for that that would be dope
THANK YOU for talking about this. It's a damn shame how basic the PvP and builds are in this one. However, I'm a strong proponent AGAINST nerfing. Other options need to be buffed to meet parity, instead of watering stuff down.
Idk I don’t agree. I think general adjustments up and down are in order. If everything is buffed up to Zimmerman level the whole game will be instakill 7 second respawns
People dont want to acknowledge ac vs ac combat is just bad in this gane. It built around whi staggers who first to land heavy burst damage. That is the foundation. Unless that is changed all other changes are toothless. Kicks, no missile defense, zimmers, stun electric weapon changes mean mothing until that is addressed
VD and FA multiplayer look like fun but they're not terribly Accessible at this point. Emulator sounds a bit sketchy performance wise and physical copies for both of those are intensely high. This is the first time I've been able to actually have a smooth PvP experience in this series despite the issues.
A lot of people have been saying lightweights arent viable but i really dont think thats true. On my lightweight builds i just completely avoid using shoulder weapons and stick to the laser dagger and one of a few different hand weapons. That way you can still have around 1800 stability and more than 350 boost speed at the same time
they are maybe not viable if you encounter someone running an OP build, but 90% of the ppl in pvp just use random shit they like. Like you don't need to play meta to win if you just do casual pvp.
Honestly I really just want pubic lobbies. Balance is something I kinda of just expect through patches, and I do hope that happens too but only having private matches is so tedious. Half the time I’m just sitting in a lobby waiting for people to join, or spending 10 minutes hopping from lobbies trying to find a match. I want to stream pvp (and I have a little bit) but when half time it’s just a lobby menu… it’s like well I wouldn’t want to watch this
Without hardlock youre essentially killing gamepad om PC tbh cause mouse and keyboard is just as busted to use hardlock, game just doesnt work like that, no hardlock might fix it on console but on PC, nah Also dont forget that starfing is essentially tied to hardlock and softlock has a lot of movement issues, they would have to change the mechanics pretty deeply to remove hardlock as is
Tbh (and tbf I am biased towards team deathmatch in general) 1v1s are just bad in this game because you'll be the main focus of your target meaning meta builders will farm you if you don't play meta. The meta is still bad in 3v3s but you can atleast get kills if you're outside meta because you aren't the only target somebody has to deal with. That isn't to imply you won't be stunlocked to death in 3v3s just that you'll be able to stunlock as well as long as your team focuses a single target. 3v3s does not mean 1v1 + 1v1 + 1v1 it often means 1v2 + 1v2 or 1v3 + 1v3
Lot of stuff I wanted changed got changed! I think they missed a few spots, but this is a great first step and the direction that this initial patch has pushed the game has me optimistic for future patches.
Make projectile velocity faster across the board, tune down recoil and ricochet Make stagger harder to get and less rewarding Nerf quad kicks and nerf quad and tank stats Make hard lock breakable Nerf AB buffs and make it take more EN based on weight Nerf the top performing weapons and either reduce damage or increase AP across the board Just to start these would be incredible. If it's any consolation, the fact that a patch is taking long seems to indicate that they're being comprehensive, I hope.
I get the reason for hard lock removal from pvp, but do you have any additions though to cover the discrepancy between controllers and mice for PC players? Or is it okay to just have it as like "if you really want to perform in AC pvp, play on mouse keyboard only."
Controllers should be fine in principle with a tweak. Firstly, u don't need precision in this game, its not an fps, so one advantage of the mouse is gone. Then the issue of camera speed can be solved by having qt not lock ur camera for a sec after you use it. With that u can argue that controllers might even be better. The movement directions on a stick is analogue, where as in kb u have strictly 8 directions. For a game where movement/distance management is so important, this is not insignificant.
while i agree with some on you point i do disagree with you statements about hardlock and light weights - first off for console soft lock when playing close is a nightmare and hardlocking is a must, 2nd you also need to remember that target tracking is a thing and even though the camera can keep track the actual aim from hard lock might not- with a good lightweight build you can break the tracking, making shots miss. this is my preferred mothed to fight, and it works rather well.
@@ni9274 you're makeing a completely stupid point: 1. Criticisms always have to be addressed. What do expect by saying this? That people should just shut up and ingore problems that kill one of the key features of any AC game? 2. People have complete right to be disappointed at the product and it's features, especially if they have paid for it. And they're also have right to talk about their disappointment. 3. AC is different franchise. It's not a DS. AC6 simplified or even deleted a lot of mechanics from previous titles and still they brought one of the worst pvp experiences from any other AC titles. Netcode and sync are fucked completely - it's extremely dumb but Radmin with older titles on emulator work better than AC6. The pvp emphasis is on dodging attacks so you won't get staggered and you can't even ficking dodge properly. Lobbies and their options are somehow worst in whole franchise. The balance is so fucked that even if you ban few weapons and building options, there are still other cancerous combos that are not so broken as the banned ones, but broken and completely not fun to play against. Alwo LRC (long range combat) is not an option anymore, even in Campaign
Nice music choice, I am a new ac player, so I have no point of reference other than old pvp youtube videos, but I play ac pvp everynight struggling against meta builds
@invyt I will peep them out. I am familiar with rpcs3. I think I just had trouble getting a disc to rip the files legally. Resale prices on eBay before ac6 were insane.
I haven't played AC since ac1 so I'm kinda new but not really, I've always loved the art style of ac, I've been abusing the quad shotty until I realized it's so op and I'm seeing a lot of people on RUclips complaining about it, so I'm trying to just mess with the different weapons available.
PvP in AC6 is braindead. Unfortunately, most of its problems stems not from the weapons.. but hardlock itself. Kicking as well can be part of it, but again, that's thanks to hardlock. Its too sticky, can't be broken and just makes "out piloting" your opponent relatively impossible. Sure you can use height and fall speed to kite and dodge some stuff... but all in all, it removes a lot of what made armored core pvp in past games fun and addictive. I can't lose my opponent, because his camera is literally stuck to me. There's no advanced maneuvers that allows me to get behind him and just pepper him as he is confused because he couldn't follow me in movement and vice versa if it were to happen to me. Jeenine said it best, its a game where builds wins over skills. If I lose, I can just whip out a meta build or just a stronger build in my arsenal and win easily... not because I just got better, I just have a better AC. It completely removes creativity. Most vets knew that hardlock would be a problem, we even voiced our concerns and a lot of people didn't want to believe it. It is definitely, the largest problem in PvP right now. Fast AC's lose to heavier ones, stagger is too fundamental to the game and after all that, you have underpowered weapons and overpowered ones.
While I can see some of the issues that you're pointing out being completely fair (lacking build variety, primarily), I feel like armored core 6 is very much defined by it's short maximum engagement range and the ease of closing the distance thanks to Assault boost and quick boosts. Changing those aspects would effectively turn the game into an entirely different one. And honestly, I don't want a different game.
I think the Coral Shield enables a huge diversity of playstyles. Is it a little goofy to have so much of the meta depend on one part? Sure. But it enables allllll sorts of different builds.
This was my first AC game and pvp was pretty fun but there were a few weapons i wish were more viable. I was incredibly bummed out when i found out you cant dual wield melee weapons, had to settle for a kicky punch man build
@@invyt ah thank you! i learned about it when i was reading up some new mechanics from articles(the electric effect) hmmm, if you don't mind suggestion, do you think a video on weapon type comparisons (AC6 vs previous gen's equivalents) for returning players would be good? I heard plasma weapon does damage over time now? i don't remember this being a thing in the past, aside from overheat. Or Coral vs Kojima etc.
@@invyt I generally agree with most of your points. However, let's not remove hardlock entirely as it may be too extreme. There is already a penalty with it. For AB, remove all offensive and defensive perks, but retain some level of stagger resistance to incentivize melee builds. For legs, I dare say equalize all stagger thresholds for all types, as there is no current downside for running quads/tetras. Make rifles more potent in mid range. They're still currently too short ranged. Nerf Zimmerman stagger. It has such an anomalous value at 840 vs Haldeman 360. Pegging it down to 560 should be fair. Make aperitif and coral missiles "give up" quicker. Nerf fortaleza speed a notch. Off the top of my head for now
1.) Yeah, I'd love to be able to play at range, damn the "Core Theory." That's a nice idea on paper but a poor excuse for limiting player expression. 2.) I'd like to use more of the map geometry rather than boxed arenas. It would make games more dynamic being able to use the battlements of The Wall to get the drop on someone. 3.) Don't remove hardlock, just make it possible to break hard lock-on with sheer speed. Addendum to point 3: apparently possible already, maybe making that easier to pull off could alleviate the issue 4.) Take away all numeric boosts and unlock all mechanical functions from OS tuning. *Everyone* should be on the same level regardless of OS status. 5.) Why use a flat boost to AP from repair kits? Why not increase all defensive stats for PVP, that way you can make anything from a light (taco) build with a hardened defense or a heavy (burrito) build with a lot of AP and crispy armor.
for 3 you must remember hard lock is only for the camera, their is an aiming component that is based on target tracking speed, if you fast enough you can absoult break that lock and cause you opponent to miss a lot even with zims
next time you in a fight watch the red circle icon, that is where you shot will go- its affected by your FCS and head type part, and fire arm spec@@puddel9079
More parts won't fix the the fact that ac6 is simply foundationally build wrong for pvp. I'm nearly convinced we would need A whole new AC7, built from the ground up around more traditional mechanics to balance the game.
I agree that it would be ideal if your AP was all up front, but allowing repair kits during PVP is within the game mechanics and easier to do. The biggest fix they could do is raise the attitude stability for mid and light biped and RJs, as well as improve stagger recovery, because no one like to get swarmed and stun locked by a 2 vs 1 in team. I would also allow all OS expansions. This would help reduce mindless kick/melee/zimmerman spamming.
THANK YOU!!!!!!! Somebody FINALLY noticed ! Those of us that were complaining about stagger, hard lock, and the instant turn movement lowering the skill ceiling, KNEW this is where it would manifest but every was like "you don't know what you are talking about". I played AC for 23 years and this outcome was Inevitable, considering how these choices (except stagger) have Bandai's STINK on them, and if you have tried ANY of Bandai's other Mech games that have any form of PVP, then you have been down that road and know EXACLTY where it ends. When you narrow possibilities and lower that factor that piloting skill plays in battle, narrow the effective range of all weapons, and narrow the number of VIABLE weapons, and make it mostly impossible to win without stagger, you basically force everyone to play in a one of a few similar ways (that are viable) if you want a chance to win. ALL the older Armored Core games had more choices and play freedom than that, In the PS2 titles I used to regularly make 16 save files split between 2 memory cards (8 file was the limit per memory card) in ANY AC game and I could FILL those files with AC designs and ALL OF THEM WERE VIABLE I used to spend YEARS playing and designing AC's and battling them against friends and almost none of my friends' builds were similar to mine and they ALL had more than one save file too so they could design more AC's
The issue is not the hard-lock, it's the tracking on the kick and the fact that assault boost doesn't break the hard-lock. You need to understand that Bandai doesn't have anything to say on how Fromsoft develope their games These mechanics were added cause we are in 2023 and Fromsoft can't afford to make a AAA game that will only sell 100.000k like the previous Armored Core. In casual pvp every build are viable, you won't need to play meta to win against the random doing pvp, and every previous Armored Core games also had balance problems and meta build. There is tons of videos on youtube featuring build that would be considered trash by meta players but are good enough to win 90% of the match in casual pvp.
@@ni9274 Lol if you enjoy the game that is Fine AC6, but the fact you are Defending this hard means there is something you are trying VERY hard not to see, otherwise you would be playing AC6 and not be here talking to a small minority of Old Timer like us, they made the game for you so ENJOY IT!
Yeah PvP isn't in a good shape for AC 6 just tried my new speed build named 'Ruby Spark' and it didn't have any of the meta weapons that people use and anyone I try fighting is using a meta build or a few of the meta weapons. I'm still taking my time with the game so I don't have all the weapons in game but I've been checking player builds before fighting them and not fun seeing players default to a meta and just leave. I had 1 player using a meta build and it just made me use my hard hitter build 'Lahvak' and I know how well it does since the laser cannons on its back hurt a lot but this guy just stopped playing and just wanted to win when I smashed 2-3 builds of his, he decided to use anti-energy parts still using a needle, stun gun build and I just said I'm done, it's not fun. There are players that do non meta builds but I need to find them first.
I don't agree with nerfing the zimmerman unless its for pvp only. One of the problems with pve is lack of viable diversity for examble the zimmerman and the minigun are really the only viable non melee hand weapons if you nerfed the zimmerman its pretty much just the minigun alone.
I hate to say it but you can't remove hardlock. It makes close range builds useless without it. Instead we should have a longer cool down on assault boost to end kick chains.
not useless lol with the ability to outmaneuver your opponents camera, close range would be more dynamic It's only kicks that really suffer and honestly I'm fine with that
Co-op PvE is the best fit for AC multiplayer. Even if you want PvP, putting that into missions with MT's, other AI actors, and destructible scenery would be so much better than trying to turn AC into a fighting game. It's just not a good fighting game.
PvP has always been a major component of AC so I defo also disagree there, but arguably my favorite parts of AC have come from Co-op play. 2AA, VD, etc. It's a huge shame it's entirely gone in AC6 especially when 5thgen focused so heavily on it.
Most of the kinetic weapons are absolutely useless because of the ricochet mechanic. So if you want to use a sniper, not only will you miss 90% of your shots, but you'll also do next to no damage.
My current pvp strategy is just to kick meta players who try to join my rooms. It makes things so much more fun. Especially when they get mad about it for some reason.
@@TheFurrLord They will repeatedly rejoin the room and spam the basic greetings like nice to meet you. It's pretty funny. I had one guy do it for nearly 4 minutes one time.
If they removed Hard-lock I would never play PvP again. You can't expect me to just switch back to normal lock with a controller after 50h of singleplayer with Hard-lock.
What i like about AC4A than AC6: - balance weapons - faster pace than 6 - gameplay - dual blade in both hands - shoulder units - dual back units - tune slots - more weapons and parts - not hard and not easy difficulty (which is good) Hot take: i think AC4A gameplay or combat was more fun and complex than sekiro and bloodborne
Literally felt this within the first hour of the game. The gameplay is just... Not great outside of single-player. What I see is that the AC needs independent turn times from hardlock and the camera, and that the ranging and movement options need adjusting heavily. I'mma be real: I stopped in chapter 3 and consider this to be "another game larping as AC". I'm glad for folks enjoying this, but 6 is one hell of a disappointment. ABKick+Zim2Win is so boring.
Just like bloodborne, there are some top tier weapons can outplay the others, be a tryhard or you will have hard plays, there is NO balancing in FS games whatever.
@@invyt I played original 3 and FA, there are also gears having tier differences, we used to enjoy mid or long range aiming pixils, now in 6 just having different rules, and ofc some metas work better with 6's rules.
So a lot of people are complaining about various builds but they aren't unbeatable. Beating double Zims, lances, misslebots etc. with 1 Zim 1 Lud machine gun 6 shot missle and 3 shot plasma. Lightweight bipedal. Missles can reach 2500km btw. Lol just no way to target that far Disagree with assault boosting being the only viable option. I dont see a damage reduction in fact you take more damage and deal more damage. And it isnt an instant damage buff the increase in damage both ways is relative to distance traveled.
Spider bladders were a problem in for answer.. and I agree for answer is superior to this game in the build variety and pvp but even stil for answer has a few of the same issues as this game. Ac6 jus need community rules and a few balances but nothing major. The kick issue melee situation is also worse because of spider legs in ac6 and well as acfa and the community usually frowns upon the use of them. The issue I see hard core players having is trying not to cringe at certain play styles and gate keep even tho it’s almost necessary in this game and this series. All from soft games have broken stuff that’s accepted in pve but hated in pvp and honestly hated on pve also but due to not wanting to come off haterish, it’s tolerated.. broken builds r not the intentions of pvp, the stun worm gun is literally for a specific mission, if u choose to bring it to pvp u admit defeat before the match even starts imo.
As the game ages the Zimmerman meta will die down as the player base drops and the hardcore pvpers continue to play but I do agree with som small balance changes to certain weapons especially since pve bosses got nerfed
PvP is good it’s players that suck. Rivers of blood all over again. Just how souls players are is garbage meta builds. Rebalancing would be nice, but there’s only so many ways to do it. Can’t nerf shotguns too hard or there’s no point, most weapons need buffed but to what extent is the question, and it needs to be done in such a way to prevent new insta kill meta strategies. Stagger in general needs to be nerfed by atleast double as that’s all pvp comes down to at jts current state. Stagger should probably be a rare thing, not a continuous occurance, that’ll probably help discourage double zim instakill metas. Ideally this will make high impact aggressive play still viable and fun but not end all be sll
game is bad play ACFA and VD pvp instead
I was watching Celt and Val play NB and LR. Seemed pretty entertaining
@@Boles_ problem is that u need perfect ping otherwise oldgen plays in some form of slow motion as compensation, really dumb tbh lol
They were explaining that to. I wonder how it would act with two sessions of parsec going. If you can get them on the same server.
@@Boles_ i think ur probably best off asking val or tmraven on acd about it, theyre the resident experts iirc but i do remember there being talks about parsec in general
The game isn't bad, however the multiplayer is. I wish I could go back, but I'm too dumb for a PC.
I missed the good old Verdict Day when we can play different roles in our team not just trying to stagger like this.
-Hard lock encourage close range engagement.
-AB can't go backward means the pursuer can attack easier make hit&run tactic not so good.
-Stagger make sure that heavy-weight stand to gain more ground than light-weight. Also make hit&run bad.
-Ricochet destroy long-range pop-shotter. I means, those are big ass projectiles fired from a big ass gun barrel. How can it losed velocity at just 500 metres when real life high calibre bullet can penetrate steel with ease?
The above reasons kill sniper and almost all light-weight.
Just give us World Boss!!! These mechanics may not look so good in PvP but it is sure as hell better in PvE!
I’d like to see an ECM function come into the game to avoid some of these problems. Both a passive ECM stat (built into heads or something for instance) that would counter the enemy ACs lock on accuracy. And more active ECM options like the smoke launcher, like chaff missiles and launchers, missile diverting flares and ect to help make light and very light builds more viable and fun.
They should jsut re-integrate turn speed. A little mech game called HAMMER does turn speed expertly, the mech is still unlocked from the camera however the mech doesnt compeltely follow it, having to turn. With that however arms will reach out from the body to hit shots which i find a very great mechanic. This would solve alot of issues especially for lightweights vs heavyweights i feel
I passed your kind words on to the dev and he was happy to hear them! Love to see more fans of his stuff
@@invyt oh yeah i played it 2 days ago. Its fucking hard XD. Ill say tho its probs because i dont really understand the stats and such but it reminds me of when i first picked up Ac5 on the emulator
Definitely suggest joining the discord! The dev of hammer is there and there are a lot of 5thgen multiplayer people to play with on emulator
@@invyt ohh cool! Could u send me an invite? Im on jeenines server my username is V.Phrike.
ong range in general is so hard to build for. other that the stun needle so many weapons have such short effective range that it makes me wonder why there are long range FCSs in the game at all
Yeah it honestly confuses me aswell tbh
Perplexed at the lack of sniper rifles, it was my playstyle in all the old games.... and weapon arms would have been so easy to add
I was competitive in generation 1-3 games. My builds were either glass-cannon sniper builds, or super-lightweight builds with like only handguns. I never had any defense, I just wouldn’t get hit. I can’t really do either of those anymore. There aren’t any sniper rifles in the game. I’m bummed about that
To be fair, snipers in this game would be SEVERLY overpowered and would likely break the game harder than melee, missile boat, and dual zimmermens do
@@howardcooper899 all depends how it’s balanced. This game runs very differently.
Hard lock should just be a camera lock. Your reticle should still have to catch up according to a turning speed associated with part stats.
I am pretty sure it already operates like this. I've been hard locked onto someone and sped past them in which my reticle lock is broken but is still hard locked, having to wait for my body to rotate before regaining reticle lock
generally speaking your hard lock on will usually follow the enemy, even during fast movements, but hard lock on can be broken by simply moving the camera manually it seems, which I think a lot of people, especially on pc do by accident.@@ratking1330
@@ratking1330 It doesn't quite operate like OP states, yes your reticle has to catch up even when hardlocked, but it has nothing to do with part stats, and there is no turning speed stat whatsoever. The heaviest, chonkiest tank will turn in hard lock at the same rate a full nachtreiher light does, and that just isn't right. It is one of the reasons light builds are so shafted in this game, alongside AB making the speed difference negligible between weight classes as well
You make some good points, bruddah! I do agree that Ranged combat should be more viable than "Stagger, Kick, Shoot point-blank, wait for next round."
AC6 was designed as a PvE game. I think Co-op PvE would be really healthy overall for the game. As for PVP, i just dont think the core systems in the game lend itself to pvp very well. I think I'd rather have a game designed for pvp rather than the sucky laggy instant killing teleporting multiplayer we have now. Its fun, but they seriously need to address the netcode, its genuinely infuriating to get hit by invisible attacks and get staggered 1 second after you clearly dodged the projectile. Close range burst impact builds are just gonna do super well in those kind of conditions. Half of the time i dont even see the animation for assault armor even get triggered and just get stunned instantly by an A posing mech with 0 cues. A modern take dedicated to the pvp experience rather than trying to tool the game to be something its not I feel is the best course of action
Remember: Armored Core 4 wasn't a fantastic game at launch. it took a Regulation patch to turn it into the Speed-Force Simulator that it is today.
I'm hoping something similar comes from AC6. Possibly a DLC that adds weapons for *actual* long-ranged combat and means to counter the current meta builds. also the FINGER. because the FINGER is hilarious and I want it back.
But 1.0 AC4 and 1.6 AC4 aren't even that different speed-wise....... Most of what they did was just giving more energy and buffing heavies. It took them an entire new game to turn it into a speed-force simulator.
@@val1703 Oh, my mistake. But still, I have faith in Fromsoft to shake the game up enough with the major patches to get the game in at least a better place PVP wise.
Weapons range and projectile velocity need to be increased in general (except for some) and the ricochet mechanic to be deleted, instead, they should add a simple damage drop off if you shoot at higher range.
Zimmermans are the best kinetic weapons mostly because they don't suffer from this ricochet mechanic, I mean they are made for short range in the first place meanwhile for the others, you have to cautiously look at the distance between you and other AC's because a single foot out of the effective range results into no damage a all.
My biggest issue is the ricochet mechanic it discourages people (both single and multiplayer) fighting at long range with most weapons as you cant do proper damage if you step even 1 inch away from the range (not to mention there’s a lack of snipers or long range rifle)
5thgen got the range right with damage/ballistic drop off as it decreases per out of range not just flat out negated the shot
And the biggest issue is that the effective range stat is basically inaccurate.
Because based on the enemy type effective range becomes obsolete and you only have to look at ideal range.
One of the Linear rifles I like to use has an ideal range of 190 and effective range of like 330m or something.
that effective range basically gets deleted against enemies like tetrapods MTs who seemingly are so armored up that it cuts down my effective range down to like 200 meters. barely more than the ideal range. making it as useful as the assault rifles. And even the charged up shots are not spared from it, despite having more power behind each shot.
The game has way too many mechanics that just encourage close range or discourage anything beyond close range.
Where the fuck are my flares and snipers
for real man
Assault Boost only increases the damage of Kinetic weapons. This makes the Zimms even more crazy.
Can we just talk about that guy fifteen seconds in with a friggin' Nineball emblem driving a white mech named LOADER 4?
Yeah, my AC6 PVP experience died hard. Mid to long-range is pretty much non-existent, which's just unfortunate. I also think the maps that we got for pvp aren't too good either. Watchpoint delta... really; I think some of these maps don't belong and, if anything, need to be redesigned.There's a serious lack of depth when it comes to pvp gameplay right now. It's going to take a lot of change I feel to get more out of it.
As a person that mostly plays pve I see this as an extremely disappointing win. I wish the pvp was way better, at least the 3v3 is pretty fun.
I miss the armored core PvP parking garage only 4 foot taller than ACs so the vertical element was removed from play. Sounds dumb but that made games soooo much more interesting and fun. That coral cave one from AC6 which the branching tunnels and caverns would be a good one too
i think mid and long range could work but requires mastery of the manual aiming perk. Not a lot of good choices rn when it comes to long range but i can see some weapons working well in the midrange. The autolock system simply does not work well against pvp players at mid to long range. Which is why we rely on stagger a lot
Honestly, I feel like the best solution would be to increase the range of everything except stuff like MGs, pistols and shotguns. Seeing nothing but [RICOCHET] when you go out of range feels so disappointing when you're still closer than you'd like. That and it has the 1st-game-in-a-new-gen issue where there is not enough new parts to allow for diversity in builds. 2 MGs? 3 shotguns including the energy one? More bipeds than there are other legs combined? It may be a simpler more approachable Assembly, but it's one that lacks the ability to really diversify your build. It especially punishes lightweight and RJ builds which rely on hit and run and longrange tactics
I’m hoping that they buff gun ranges and then add in way more parts in a dlc, possibly actual sniper weapons. Another good thing would be to buff the projectile speed for stuff like the linear rifles, make it really hard to dodge weapons that are meant to be long range, at the very least do it for the charged shots.
I also hope they make it so that the charge up shots from linear rifles (the acting sniper rifles) don't suffer from ricochet within effective range.
it feels odd that your charged up shot will still ricochet against certain enemies, even though it seemingly has more power behind it, I assume.@@samnunnink7575
@@samnunnink7575for real, increasing bullet velocity wouldn’t change the balance much because you still can’t capitalize on stagger as well at long range. But it would add a ton more build variety
3:29 I'd also point out that at least for RJ legs, its almost impossible to hit a kick *without* hard lock on. The range is so much longer with RJs that if you arent in perfect range or your target is moving at all, youll just fly right past them
As a bipedal guy, yes. Without hard lock it is extremely difficult to hit. Let me kick with soft lock gosh dang it!
You mentioned the removal of hard lock for PvP, personally if they were to do this they should also limit turn speed. BUT have it not limited by parts, every AC gets the same flat turn speed. This would prevent M&KB front becoming the defacto winner 24/7 AND give quickturn an actual purpose in game.
Speaking of quickturn, due to hard lock I've seen no one ever bring up just how stupid the input of it feels. You'd expect to perform a move that quickly turns your camera 180 degrees would use the analog stick that turns your camera, but no the stick that does it is the one that moves you instead. Also requiring you to press the toggle thrust button, meaning a missed input turns off your thrusters leaving you dead in the water. It just doesn't feel right to perform and has too much risk associated with it in a game where I've seen the camera do a 2160 degree turn on a dime in less than a second with no input.
this. i depend on controller a lot (Its just easier to react with it) and if Hard Lock got removed, my style would get torn in two. And I don't feel like relearning the entire game with M&KB.
Turn speed can be negated if someone can amp mouse sensitivity.
I'd say a fix could be having the turn be gradual, like if you were telling a turret to turn, would work better. A movement of the mouse, and the crosshair takes longer to reach that place.
Shorter changes of aiming would be less noticible, but it will be heavier with more.
Could have seen this a mile away before launch if people weren't looking through rose-colored glasses.
Yeah i so agree with this. Of all things mention. I would go for getting rid that hard lock on. Just make pilot made use of that thumb stick OR mouse to look around + use of quick turn os chips. Now thats skill. Back in 3rd gen. I use that quick 180 shoulder extension + OB COMBO. To get away from their fcs sight.
Honestly the only change that needs to be made, besides net code, is weapon ranges. With how compressed the weapon ranges are, there's little way for any other weapon to compete with shotguns or gatlings, while there's no answer to missiles except for missiles.
As for your other complaints, increasing the ranges reduces the utility of hard lock because you're not forced to knife fight, you can always AB away from your foe and with longer ranges punish slower short ranged builds, while now that you can properly kite kick spam becomes far less effective.
It'd be a stopgap but if someone could figure out how to reroute the connection to avoid EAC there are some promising attempts to rebalance at least some of these problems. It'd really come down to being able to test it in a pvp environment to see how well they work
If hard lock is taken away imma need some sensitivity increase on console cus turning feels hella slow without the lock
Pvp needs a lot more Room options for custom games.
-parts restriction settings to keep build variation and encourage use of parts that would otherwise be passed over in favor of power weapons.
-AP increase like you mentioned so matches can be longer and more consistent for strategy
-range increase across the board. It would be nice to feel like rifles are at all viable.
-more map options so we don’t constantly see the same 3.
-2v2 just so playing with friends doesn’t require at least 1 or 2 randos.
-I’d even say cut stagger build up by 30%
I love love love my lightweight laser pistols build based all around running circles around my enemy while peppering them with a storm of lasers from drones and turrents from all angles... a little too much. I've tried branching out into longer ranged builds and have consistently hit a brick wall with anything that doesn't use missiles as a crutch. My only remotely functional "long" ranged build is a medium biped using hal parts to sort of vaguely imitate white glint, but not that closely. This build, despite running dual Ransetsu RFs, feels more like a missile boat in practice, since most of my damage and stagger build up comes almost exclusively from the JVLN back missile alongside a split missile I chose at random, and which misses about 50% of the time. I tried so hard to make the rifles work, but they basically just add pressure until the JVLN goes off, so I caved and swapped to the missile FCS.
And man it's really making me wish they'd massively buff the ranges to everything except the shotguns. I feel like a lot of issues, while not fixed, could be mitigated to at least some degree if they didn't make everything so close ranged. At first I was pretty excited about the generally closer range, because I knew I wanted to try out melee and fast zippy builds, but in the end I'm siding with the oldhead nerds on this one, generally longer ranges could totally help diversify the game without just turning it into 4th gen.
Split missiles are some of the worst PVP choices and have terrible accuracy. Try the plasma missiles
@@ballsack8937 have you considered the fact that they look cool and match with loose the loose white glint inspo? Like yeah obviously plasma missiles would be better, but I feel like if someone's using a wacky missile option, it's because they're actively choosing too, not because they just don't know there are better options
@@Ezekiel_Allium but you said you were vaguely imitating white glint. Are you trying to stay true to glints load out or not? I'm confused. I understand keeping the accuracy of the build, but your first comment didn't imply you were going for one to one build accuracy.
@@ballsack8937 I'm not, but I mainly wanted to go for the vague look, and a bit of the functionality with dual rifles and at least one split missile. The original idea was to use the split missiles as a harassment tool while an active homing missile was chasing them, but I dropped that in favor of the javelin since its basically just a homing missile but better
@@Ezekiel_Allium what system are you on
In previous games there used to be an attack power stat calculated on your AC. They need to add it back in so you could have attack power limits on pvp rooms. They could probably put projectile velocity back in as a stat and increase it for weapons that are made for mid or long range.
I think adding projectile velocity back is a great idea, but those combined stats from the old games were never a great indicator of how your AC would actually do.
@@invyt yeah the attack power stat was abit out there in the other games. Tough to figure out a way to keep it balanced so everyone can still have fun.
I can't even connect with my friends lobby 😂
Welp, the AC6 PVP experience aged like milk
thank you mr rexsybimatrimawahyu3292
I'm not super hot on the idea of increasing HP, id rather implement other changes and see how that shakes out first since I think the pacing of MP matches feels ok at the moment. I agree that more HP is definitely a better solution than repair kits in MP, repair kits were an interesting experiment but imo they're not fun, especially when the enemy gets them too. in sp repair kits just make burst damage even more important, with stuff like chainsaw, pilebunker, dual stun needle, etc being god tier because it can kill enemies before they use their kits.
Removing hard lock entirely feels a bit too severe and would totally gimp controller players, the idea I had was to make hard lock follow the FCS leading rather than the enemy's actual position so hard lock effectiveness is dependent on the FCS. This could probably be paired with a harsher debuff to FCS performance when hardlocked to disincentivize it more.
I agree that assault boost's impact damage buff should be removed, but Imo the increased impact damage resistance should stay. Assault boost is a nessecary evil to prevent thicc builds from being constantly kited, and at least keeping the impact damage resistance is important to reduce the likelihood of getting stopped during AB. Instead, I think the dodge reload time during assault boost should be increased from ~0.5sec to 1 sec, since from what I've seen the short dodge reload time is what makes assault boost nearly untouchable
100% agree with you on increasing the range of linear rifles and rifles. Making their effective range less than a boost's distance away from touch range just feels terrible to play.
I think the game was going for a dichotomy where lasers have better base dps but bullets have better impact damage and direct hit, and imo I don't see a problem with that. Making both bullets and lasers deal good damage but low stagger may result in them stepping on each other's toes but this is one of those things where I don't think i'll mind it too much either way.
Either way, I think this video overall has pretty good takes, here's hoping fromsoft notices this (or at least the changes proposed becomes popular enough)
Exactly this. Couldn't agree more. From a Armored Core Vet
I can see nerfing the additional stagger from assault boost but removing the damage mitigation might be going too far. I will say that some kinetic weapons could definitely use a range buff, specifically to the Ideal Range stat. the Linear Rifles would benefit greatly and better act as Sniper Rifles. adding in some actual Kinetic Snipers would be nice as well.
Man in AC6 we can’t even 2v2 because the room has to be full to sortie. Several really bizarre design choices they made. I feel like the head director just really hates pvp players
To be fair, the range aspect and melee issues are somewhat negated in 3v3s. For example you see way more quad builds that would rather play helicopter support with missiles and miniguns, snipers and laser cannons/stunneedle, or all grenade launchers + artillery, than you would see in 1v1, of course this brings in a range and touhou aspect that you wouldnt see (used effectively) in 1v1s. Not to mention tread missile/artillery and coral builds that use range and touhou attacks.
Keep in mind when I say "range," Im talking about viable distance from the enemy where you can spam attacks from a distance while still being able to dodge and maintain distance from your target at maximum range.
Doesn't mean that melee is useless though, just way more balanced in the fact that there are three targets, and the different builds will constantly keep you on your toes.
So all in all, 3v3s are more for balanced PvP. I'm not counting zimmermans though, those are unbalanced devil weaponry no matter the circumstance.
one thing you got to keep in mind too is this is a relatively new game and most players rn are still improving on their movement and combat. As the game gets older we’ll probably start to see more diversity in builds. As you get better and better and play against better opponents, it becomes harder to simply rely on for example your double zimmermans and stagger advantage. Better players understand their matchup better, have better movement, and have more knowledge on how to play against a meta builds. Positioning will probably be an important factor for anyone trying to make a mid to long range build work. Definitely a higher skill ceiling compared to close range builds
I have found the opposite - the better you get at the game, the less diverse the loadouts you see because the good shit is so good.
I feel like the awful lobby system deserves mention too. I recognised it almost immediately, it’s basically the exact same thing as Ace Combat 7’s multiplayer. It sucked there and it sucks here. Another common thread the two games share is how it’s pure deathmatch as well, there’s some scope in both games for some interesting objective based scenarios or maybe even co-op pve or something. But nah, deathmatch is all you get. Feels like a lack of imagination. At least AC6 doesn’t hate cosmetic options behind the game’s dead multiplayer like AC7 does.
To defendchardlock it's necessary on controller. The joystick doesnt have the control or speed to maintain softlock against assaultboosting build or qb lightweights up close. It wpuldnt be nearly as necessary if we had the combat ranges of previous games though.
Historically this has been solved by quick turn.
@@invyt true. Granted I only ever got to play the pvp of ac5 and verdict day. If we had a button to force 90 degree turns in a softlock it'd help if it's in the game call me ignorant. I've yet to see it used by anyone while trying to figure out if I could in game.
@@xenosayain1506 V and Verdict Day didn't have a quick turn, but had a drift turn which allowed you to turn much much faster than normal. You would also get a turn speed bonus when kicking off walls.
This game desperately needs separate PvE and PvP balancing
hopefully the pvp balance patch From Software mentioned in the 1.03 update comes soon
The game is a single player game and From Software has always said that pvp is an extra.
Boost kick needs a cool down like 3 seconds...I have a few very good ideas for pvp but I'll be wasting my time I'm just an small ant out here. also I want co-op hopefully they have plans for that that would be dope
Boost kick should have an en cost associated with the booster's melee cost. Or it should be a leg stat in terms of the en cost to kick.
@@the7thgymleader thats a good idea too, theyll have to remove it from OS tuning if its a part stat also
THANK YOU for talking about this. It's a damn shame how basic the PvP and builds are in this one.
However, I'm a strong proponent AGAINST nerfing. Other options need to be buffed to meet parity, instead of watering stuff down.
Idk I don’t agree. I think general adjustments up and down are in order. If everything is buffed up to Zimmerman level the whole game will be instakill 7 second respawns
Agree about improvements tho
Idk missle builds make me moread than anything
It doesn't make logical sense how AB would reduce damage. If I run head first into a car going 80mph, am I taking less damage?
Yeah no kidding lol...
👿 Perfect Explanation of the issue, This is the most Restrictive AC ever
People dont want to acknowledge ac vs ac combat is just bad in this gane. It built around whi staggers who first to land heavy burst damage. That is the foundation. Unless that is changed all other changes are toothless. Kicks, no missile defense, zimmers, stun electric weapon changes mean mothing until that is addressed
That AC name bro lol, Im dead
so is everyone I encountered
Good points, best thumbnail yet and I love the color correction, fellow Max0r enjoyer.
Lol, I assume you saw me on his discord?
@@invytLol yeah, I joined a few months ago and when I realized I was like, "oh shit, he's here too? Sick."
VD and FA multiplayer look like fun but they're not terribly Accessible at this point. Emulator sounds a bit sketchy performance wise and physical copies for both of those are intensely high. This is the first time I've been able to actually have a smooth PvP experience in this series despite the issues.
Check out my channel, I have guides on how to emulate some of the games. Olden and 4thgen run very well on almost any computer!
@@invyt Can confirm. 4thgen's requirements are literally just "do you own a GPU", and oldgen can even work without one (kinda...)
It's Joever, AC6 bad 😭
If u wanna see numbers go up, you need to make more videos !
Also thanks a lot for making this video !
A lot of people have been saying lightweights arent viable but i really dont think thats true. On my lightweight builds i just completely avoid using shoulder weapons and stick to the laser dagger and one of a few different hand weapons. That way you can still have around 1800 stability and more than 350 boost speed at the same time
they are maybe not viable if you encounter someone running an OP build, but 90% of the ppl in pvp just use random shit they like.
Like you don't need to play meta to win if you just do casual pvp.
i full agree with this if you have 350 speed + decent boost i run a light weight and win about 90% of my fights, so long as I don't screw up lol
Honestly I really just want pubic lobbies. Balance is something I kinda of just expect through patches, and I do hope that happens too but only having private matches is so tedious.
Half the time I’m just sitting in a lobby waiting for people to join, or spending 10 minutes hopping from lobbies trying to find a match. I want to stream pvp (and I have a little bit) but when half time it’s just a lobby menu… it’s like well I wouldn’t want to watch this
Without hardlock youre essentially killing gamepad om PC tbh cause mouse and keyboard is just as busted to use hardlock, game just doesnt work like that, no hardlock might fix it on console but on PC, nah
Also dont forget that starfing is essentially tied to hardlock and softlock has a lot of movement issues, they would have to change the mechanics pretty deeply to remove hardlock as is
Tbh (and tbf I am biased towards team deathmatch in general) 1v1s are just bad in this game because you'll be the main focus of your target meaning meta builders will farm you if you don't play meta. The meta is still bad in 3v3s but you can atleast get kills if you're outside meta because you aren't the only target somebody has to deal with. That isn't to imply you won't be stunlocked to death in 3v3s just that you'll be able to stunlock as well as long as your team focuses a single target. 3v3s does not mean 1v1 + 1v1 + 1v1 it often means 1v2 + 1v2 or 1v3 + 1v3
Pause.
Peep the patch notes.
Lot of stuff I wanted changed got changed! I think they missed a few spots, but this is a great first step and the direction that this initial patch has pushed the game has me optimistic for future patches.
Make projectile velocity faster across the board, tune down recoil and ricochet
Make stagger harder to get and less rewarding
Nerf quad kicks and nerf quad and tank stats
Make hard lock breakable
Nerf AB buffs and make it take more EN based on weight
Nerf the top performing weapons and either reduce damage or increase AP across the board
Just to start these would be incredible. If it's any consolation, the fact that a patch is taking long seems to indicate that they're being comprehensive, I hope.
I get the reason for hard lock removal from pvp, but do you have any additions though to cover the discrepancy between controllers and mice for PC players? Or is it okay to just have it as like "if you really want to perform in AC pvp, play on mouse keyboard only."
good thing there is no cross play
I only play on kb/m so I don't really have any perspective as a controller player
Controllers should be fine in principle with a tweak. Firstly, u don't need precision in this game, its not an fps, so one advantage of the mouse is gone. Then the issue of camera speed can be solved by having qt not lock ur camera for a sec after you use it.
With that u can argue that controllers might even be better. The movement directions on a stick is analogue, where as in kb u have strictly 8 directions. For a game where movement/distance management is so important, this is not insignificant.
while i agree with some on you point i do disagree with you statements about hardlock and light weights - first off for console soft lock when playing close is a nightmare and hardlocking is a must, 2nd you also need to remember that target tracking is a thing and even though the camera can keep track the actual aim from hard lock might not- with a good lightweight build you can break the tracking, making shots miss. this is my preferred mothed to fight, and it works rather well.
You boomer, what do you mean AC6 isn't perfect?
Nostalgia gamer.
"Issue" is too light word to describe the whole AC6 pvp balance
shitting on the game will not make it better, ask the souls community
@@ni9274 you're makeing a completely stupid point:
1. Criticisms always have to be addressed. What do expect by saying this? That people should just shut up and ingore problems that kill one of the key features of any AC game?
2. People have complete right to be disappointed at the product and it's features, especially if they have paid for it. And they're also have right to talk about their disappointment.
3. AC is different franchise. It's not a DS. AC6 simplified or even deleted a lot of mechanics from previous titles and still they brought one of the worst pvp experiences from any other AC titles. Netcode and sync are fucked completely - it's extremely dumb but Radmin with older titles on emulator work better than AC6. The pvp emphasis is on dodging attacks so you won't get staggered and you can't even ficking dodge properly. Lobbies and their options are somehow worst in whole franchise. The balance is so fucked that even if you ban few weapons and building options, there are still other cancerous combos that are not so broken as the banned ones, but broken and completely not fun to play against. Alwo LRC (long range combat) is not an option anymore, even in Campaign
Only needs a couple tweaks quad kicks, zimmermans nerf by a hair, and missle impact nerf would do it really
Using double melee in pvp is impossible, any gun build ( literally everything) just needs to press s and space and you lose, can't reach em
Nice music choice, I am a new ac player, so I have no point of reference other than old pvp youtube videos, but I play ac pvp everynight struggling against meta builds
If you're on PC I suggest emulating the old games! I have guides on my channel
@invyt I will peep them out. I am familiar with rpcs3. I think I just had trouble getting a disc to rip the files legally. Resale prices on eBay before ac6 were insane.
DM me on discord and I can get you some game files. Username is inveigh
I haven't played AC since ac1 so I'm kinda new but not really, I've always loved the art style of ac, I've been abusing the quad shotty until I realized it's so op and I'm seeing a lot of people on RUclips complaining about it, so I'm trying to just mess with the different weapons available.
PvP in AC6 is braindead. Unfortunately, most of its problems stems not from the weapons.. but hardlock itself. Kicking as well can be part of it, but again, that's thanks to hardlock. Its too sticky, can't be broken and just makes "out piloting" your opponent relatively impossible. Sure you can use height and fall speed to kite and dodge some stuff... but all in all, it removes a lot of what made armored core pvp in past games fun and addictive. I can't lose my opponent, because his camera is literally stuck to me. There's no advanced maneuvers that allows me to get behind him and just pepper him as he is confused because he couldn't follow me in movement and vice versa if it were to happen to me. Jeenine said it best, its a game where builds wins over skills. If I lose, I can just whip out a meta build or just a stronger build in my arsenal and win easily... not because I just got better, I just have a better AC. It completely removes creativity.
Most vets knew that hardlock would be a problem, we even voiced our concerns and a lot of people didn't want to believe it. It is definitely, the largest problem in PvP right now. Fast AC's lose to heavier ones, stagger is too fundamental to the game and after all that, you have underpowered weapons and overpowered ones.
While I can see some of the issues that you're pointing out being completely fair (lacking build variety, primarily), I feel like armored core 6 is very much defined by it's short maximum engagement range and the ease of closing the distance thanks to Assault boost and quick boosts. Changing those aspects would effectively turn the game into an entirely different one.
And honestly, I don't want a different game.
I think it's fine for singleplayer but for multiplayer it isn't very fun.
Zimmerman shouldn't do a lot of damage at close range since it's supposed to be a long range shotgun
I think the Coral Shield enables a huge diversity of playstyles. Is it a little goofy to have so much of the meta depend on one part? Sure. But it enables allllll sorts of different builds.
Would you like some whine and cheese?
More of a beer guy, but I'll take the cheese
This was my first AC game and pvp was pretty fun but there were a few weapons i wish were more viable. I was incredibly bummed out when i found out you cant dual wield melee weapons, had to settle for a kicky punch man build
i will probably get ac6 during the christmas season, but i am surprised no mention of needle launcher(back weapon). isn't it supposedly OP?
It's strong but I don't think it is as insane as people first thought. Does a lot of damage for sure!
@@invyt ah thank you! i learned about it when i was reading up some new mechanics from articles(the electric effect)
hmmm, if you don't mind suggestion, do you think a video on weapon type comparisons (AC6 vs previous gen's equivalents) for returning players would be good?
I heard plasma weapon does damage over time now? i don't remember this being a thing in the past, aside from overheat.
Or Coral vs Kojima etc.
@@goodlearnerbadstudent756Stun Needle does a lot of damage, but it's also very heavy and has very high EN Load.
You didn't account for ammo when you mentioned tripling AP though.
We have enough ammo to kill like eight ACs dude it won't be an issue.
@@invyt for some weapons, yes, but not all.
@@invyt I generally agree with most of your points.
However, let's not remove hardlock entirely as it may be too extreme. There is already a penalty with it.
For AB, remove all offensive and defensive perks, but retain some level of stagger resistance to incentivize melee builds.
For legs, I dare say equalize all stagger thresholds for all types, as there is no current downside for running quads/tetras.
Make rifles more potent in mid range. They're still currently too short ranged.
Nerf Zimmerman stagger. It has such an anomalous value at 840 vs Haldeman 360. Pegging it down to 560 should be fair.
Make aperitif and coral missiles "give up" quicker.
Nerf fortaleza speed a notch.
Off the top of my head for now
1.) Yeah, I'd love to be able to play at range, damn the "Core Theory." That's a nice idea on paper but a poor excuse for limiting player expression.
2.) I'd like to use more of the map geometry rather than boxed arenas. It would make games more dynamic being able to use the battlements of The Wall to get the drop on someone.
3.) Don't remove hardlock, just make it possible to break hard lock-on with sheer speed.
Addendum to point 3: apparently possible already, maybe making that easier to pull off could alleviate the issue
4.) Take away all numeric boosts and unlock all mechanical functions from OS tuning. *Everyone* should be on the same level regardless of OS status.
5.) Why use a flat boost to AP from repair kits? Why not increase all defensive stats for PVP, that way you can make anything from a light (taco) build with a hardened defense or a heavy (burrito) build with a lot of AP and crispy armor.
for 3 you must remember hard lock is only for the camera, their is an aiming component that is based on target tracking speed, if you fast enough you can absoult break that lock and cause you opponent to miss a lot even with zims
@@angellore6021 So it's already a thing, but difficult to pull off...
Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
next time you in a fight watch the red circle icon, that is where you shot will go- its affected by your FCS and head type part, and fire arm spec@@puddel9079
Nah, we don't need balancing, we need even more parts and weapons to play with. AC6 has one of the least total parts and weapons in the series.
More parts won't fix the the fact that ac6 is simply foundationally build wrong for pvp.
I'm nearly convinced we would need A whole new AC7, built from the ground up around more traditional mechanics to balance the game.
@@theneer-do-well3240 very based
Just remake FA and VD goddamnit Fromsoft!!!
U on pc?? How u get the black flames??? That's 🔥
filter on the video
I agree that it would be ideal if your AP was all up front, but allowing repair kits during PVP is within the game mechanics and easier to do. The biggest fix they could do is raise the attitude stability for mid and light biped and RJs, as well as improve stagger recovery, because no one like to get swarmed and stun locked by a 2 vs 1 in team. I would also allow all OS expansions. This would help reduce mindless kick/melee/zimmerman spamming.
THANK YOU!!!!!!! Somebody FINALLY noticed ! Those of us that were complaining about stagger, hard lock, and the instant turn movement lowering the skill ceiling, KNEW this is where it would manifest but every was like "you don't know what you are talking about". I played AC for 23 years and this outcome was Inevitable, considering how these choices (except stagger) have Bandai's STINK on them, and if you have tried ANY of Bandai's other Mech games that have any form of PVP, then you have been down that road and know EXACLTY where it ends. When you narrow possibilities and lower that factor that piloting skill plays in battle, narrow the effective range of all weapons, and narrow the number of VIABLE weapons, and make it mostly impossible to win without stagger, you basically force everyone to play in a one of a few similar ways (that are viable) if you want a chance to win. ALL the older Armored Core games had more choices and play freedom than that, In the PS2 titles I used to regularly make 16 save files split between 2 memory cards (8 file was the limit per memory card) in ANY AC game and I could FILL those files with AC designs and ALL OF THEM WERE VIABLE I used to spend YEARS playing and designing AC's and battling them against friends and almost none of my friends' builds were similar to mine and they ALL had more than one save file too so they could design more AC's
The issue is not the hard-lock, it's the tracking on the kick and the fact that assault boost doesn't break the hard-lock. You need to understand that Bandai doesn't have anything to say on how Fromsoft develope their games
These mechanics were added cause we are in 2023 and Fromsoft can't afford to make a AAA game that will only sell 100.000k like the previous Armored Core.
In casual pvp every build are viable, you won't need to play meta to win against the random doing pvp, and every previous Armored Core games also had balance problems and meta build.
There is tons of videos on youtube featuring build that would be considered trash by meta players but are good enough to win 90% of the match in casual pvp.
@@ni9274 Lol if you enjoy the game that is Fine AC6, but the fact you are Defending this hard means there is something you are trying VERY hard not to see, otherwise you would be playing AC6 and not be here talking to a small minority of Old Timer like us, they made the game for you so ENJOY IT!
Yooo how bad at math am I..... just add the healing kit values to base AP brilliant. And give us weapon arms
Yeah PvP isn't in a good shape for AC 6 just tried my new speed build named 'Ruby Spark' and it didn't have any of the meta weapons that people use and anyone I try fighting is using a meta build or a few of the meta weapons. I'm still taking my time with the game so I don't have all the weapons in game but I've been checking player builds before fighting them and not fun seeing players default to a meta and just leave.
I had 1 player using a meta build and it just made me use my hard hitter build 'Lahvak' and I know how well it does since the laser cannons on its back hurt a lot but this guy just stopped playing and just wanted to win when I smashed 2-3 builds of his, he decided to use anti-energy parts still using a needle, stun gun build and I just said I'm done, it's not fun.
There are players that do non meta builds but I need to find them first.
I don't agree with nerfing the zimmerman unless its for pvp only. One of the problems with pve is lack of viable diversity for examble the zimmerman and the minigun are really the only viable non melee hand weapons if you nerfed the zimmerman its pretty much just the minigun alone.
I hate to say it but you can't remove hardlock. It makes close range builds useless without it.
Instead we should have a longer cool down on assault boost to end kick chains.
not useless lol
with the ability to outmaneuver your opponents camera, close range would be more dynamic
It's only kicks that really suffer and honestly I'm fine with that
oh and getting in on kiting opponents would be tougher but I couldn't imagine it'd be that hard.
overall it just sounds much healthier.
Co-op PvE is the best fit for AC multiplayer. Even if you want PvP, putting that into missions with MT's, other AI actors, and destructible scenery would be so much better than trying to turn AC into a fighting game. It's just not a good fighting game.
Strongly disagree.
PvP has always been a major component of AC so I defo also disagree there, but arguably my favorite parts of AC have come from Co-op play. 2AA, VD, etc. It's a huge shame it's entirely gone in AC6 especially when 5thgen focused so heavily on it.
Most of the kinetic weapons are absolutely useless because of the ricochet mechanic. So if you want to use a sniper, not only will you miss 90% of your shots, but you'll also do next to no damage.
My current pvp strategy is just to kick meta players who try to join my rooms. It makes things so much more fun. Especially when they get mad about it for some reason.
How'd you know they get mad? There's no chat function. Hello! I want to sortie! I'm done for the day! Thank you! Good bye!
@@TheFurrLord They will repeatedly rejoin the room and spam the basic greetings like nice to meet you. It's pretty funny. I had one guy do it for nearly 4 minutes one time.
that’s my go to as well 😂
If they removed Hard-lock I would never play PvP again. You can't expect me to just switch back to normal lock with a controller after 50h of singleplayer with Hard-lock.
I can.
50h of hard lock... ewww
I really dont think removing hard lock is the right call here. I feel like it would screw over a lot of weapons especially for console players.
Quickmatch 3v3 please
What i like about AC4A than AC6:
- balance weapons
- faster pace than 6
- gameplay
- dual blade in both hands
- shoulder units
- dual back units
- tune slots
- more weapons and parts
- not hard and not easy difficulty (which is good)
Hot take: i think AC4A gameplay or combat was more fun and complex than sekiro and bloodborne
this isn't even a take they're just different genres of games
AC games are innately more complex than Souls
4th Gen. speed is just speed for the sake of feeling like you’re doing something. It’s all flash no complexity.
Literally felt this within the first hour of the game. The gameplay is just... Not great outside of single-player. What I see is that the AC needs independent turn times from hardlock and the camera, and that the ranging and movement options need adjusting heavily. I'mma be real: I stopped in chapter 3 and consider this to be "another game larping as AC". I'm glad for folks enjoying this, but 6 is one hell of a disappointment. ABKick+Zim2Win is so boring.
Spittin so many fax
Just like bloodborne, there are some top tier weapons can outplay the others, be a tryhard or you will have hard plays, there is NO balancing in FS games whatever.
You should play some of the other armored core games before making comments like this.
@@invyt I played original 3 and FA, there are also gears having tier differences, we used to enjoy mid or long range aiming pixils, now in 6 just having different rules, and ofc some metas work better with 6's rules.
Took ya long enough to talk about it haha.
In my defense, cyberpunk 2077 is pretty good rn lol
I've been looking into playing that game at some point. Does it scratch ur sci fi itch?@@invyt
2077 is one of my favorite games, I'd definitely recommend it
This is Sekiro/Dark Souls but with Mechs. They took our range away from us. What kinda mech simulator is short range????
Not a bad take.
So a lot of people are complaining about various builds but they aren't unbeatable. Beating double Zims, lances, misslebots etc. with 1 Zim 1 Lud machine gun 6 shot missle and 3 shot plasma. Lightweight bipedal. Missles can reach 2500km btw. Lol just no way to target that far Disagree with assault boosting being the only viable option. I dont see a damage reduction in fact you take more damage and deal more damage. And it isnt an instant damage buff the increase in damage both ways is relative to distance traveled.
No but you and many are choosing to play like this, meta chasers. I win plenty without meta.
Spider bladders were a problem in for answer.. and I agree for answer is superior to this game in the build variety and pvp but even stil for answer has a few of the same issues as this game. Ac6 jus need community rules and a few balances but nothing major. The kick issue melee situation is also worse because of spider legs in ac6 and well as acfa and the community usually frowns upon the use of them. The issue I see hard core players having is trying not to cringe at certain play styles and gate keep even tho it’s almost necessary in this game and this series. All from soft games have broken stuff that’s accepted in pve but hated in pvp and honestly hated on pve also but due to not wanting to come off haterish, it’s tolerated.. broken builds r not the intentions of pvp, the stun worm gun is literally for a specific mission, if u choose to bring it to pvp u admit defeat before the match even starts imo.
As the game ages the Zimmerman meta will die down as the player base drops and the hardcore pvpers continue to play but I do agree with som small balance changes to certain weapons especially since pve bosses got nerfed
PvP is good it’s players that suck. Rivers of blood all over again. Just how souls players are is garbage meta builds. Rebalancing would be nice, but there’s only so many ways to do it. Can’t nerf shotguns too hard or there’s no point, most weapons need buffed but to what extent is the question, and it needs to be done in such a way to prevent new insta kill meta strategies. Stagger in general needs to be nerfed by atleast double as that’s all pvp comes down to at jts current state. Stagger should probably be a rare thing, not a continuous occurance, that’ll probably help discourage double zim instakill metas. Ideally this will make high impact aggressive play still viable and fun but not end all be sll