I love Jimmy, but Drew was kinda bugging during that entire Jimmy discussion. He deserves all the criticism he's getting for his lack of performance in the finals. Kinda was unclear what Drew's point was.
From what I gathered it sounded like he wanted Jimmy to get the credit for being there and when he didn’t perform well put the blame on his injury. Which is a weak argument and I’m a heat fan but if Jimmy isn’t making an excuse for his poor performances and not living up to his standards why make excuses for him. Lowkey tho didn’t like Dehls trying to make it seem like Tatum was getting bullied by the NBA community for little reason and that Jimmy isn’t criticized nearly as much. Tatum’s reasons for failing and standards that he has are different than Jimmy’s so I don’t understand his point there either.
So happy I witness this Nuggets team. So happy that I see their end of the regular season, knowing that their defensive intensity is still their despite the poor records at the end, knowing that they have kind of figured out the non-Jokic minutes before the playoffs. At the end, so happy I picked this Nuggets team all the way to the final, so happy this team got it done and all the players, coaches got the credits they deserve, so happy Nuggets win the 1st title in franchise history.
There’s a lot to take from the Jimmy playoff performer debate so I’ll try to attack a few points here as a Heat fan. One Riv is right when he stopped Drew for bringing up the 8th seed thing. At some point it’s meaningless. Like it’s a nice footnote to have on your season but that’s it, a footnote. However he’s wrong when he said “they almost blew the series” but that’s the point “almost”. And people forget Game 6 Jimmy gave them the lead at the FT line and the Heat were a Derrick White tip-in away from winning the series a game early. That ain’t on Jimmy, that’s on Max Strus, or just bad luck honestly. I also didn’t like Dehl’s using Tatum’s age as a defense of his last four playoffs compared to Jimmy’s. He’s 25 and in his prime, does his age have anything to do with the fact that he had 100 TOs last year? Nope. Also if Riv wants to use the “almost blew the series” argument with Butler then Tatum and the Celtics almost blew the series against Miami in GM7 last year in the ECF. But that’s not what’re going to do because that’s loser talk and they have to be better than that. You stick with what happened not what could of been
Ironic thing is this series played out exactly how you would think a 1v8 seed would play out 😂. But yea I agree once you win that first round against the bucks that 8 next to the heats name becomes irrelevant
Tbh I think rivs seeding point was a bad example, he brought up the lakers being the 7th seed but after the trade deadline the lakers were one of if not the best teams in the nba, not once during the regular season did the heat look like a contender, we can acknowledge and praise the heat for overachieving while also understanding that Jimmy and the heat did not play well in the finals. I think a lot of people are just on the Jimmy hate train meanwhile most of those same people probably though the heat would get destroyed in round 1.
@@darianp2294 yeah but goes out the window when you make the finals. I think there’s a difference between taking a step back and appreciating the accomplishment vs using it as a way of dismissing anyone’s bad performances. Miami didn’t lose because they were an 8th seed. They lost because they ran out of steam and the offense couldn’t keep up with Denver. Sometimes you just play a team that’s better but by no means is that an excuse to get destroyed like that. Also using the 8th seed as a crutch only adds to the belief that Celtics fans had that “it was our series to win and we blew it” which outside of talent is an inaccurate statement.
Also to go further with Drew’s argument, when you’re put on a podium you’re held to a higher standard and Jimmy didn’t live up to that standard this Finals. It’s just a matter of fact, and yes injuries happen but Butler never used that as an excuse. He wasn’t himself but he also didn’t perform well. He has to share the criticism at some point, you can’t let him skate with his ankle issue. Especially if Drew wants to hold him to the superstar status thing. Sure Jimmy is a superstar but there are different levels of talents. Dame shouldn’t be held to the same status as Jokic or Giannis or Luka or Steph. Those are different breeds.
Bro how did Joel keep his composure when Riv and Drew were saying 2.5 is basically 3 when they were talking about Halis turnovers 😂😂😂 that is so ridiculous lmaooo Drew: “law of rounding” 🤓 y’all can’t be serious I’m crying 😂😂
joel saying “you don’t get a badge of honor for losing in the finals as an 8 seed” but also pointing out and flexing before the series that the ‘99 knicks were the only other 8 seed to make it, regardless of the result, is just hypocritical😂
Joel is holding Jimmy to KDs standard and then simultaneously saying he’s not a superstar lol. Jimmy was hurt in the last series. Congrats to Denver. They earned it. Jimmy doesn’t perform well when hurt and there’s evidence to show that.
@@MathiasG1512 he’s known to say that. He don’t wanna use excuses bc he’s that kinda guy… except his ankle swells up like a golf ball. Heat best writer Ethan skolnick who’s followed the Heat for years and did other teams before that def reported that the Heat acknowledged the injury.
Yall rlly sleeping on Haliburton. I am completely with Joel on this. Haliburtons floor is 20 n 10 on 50/40 shooting. From here on out he will be an all nba player and I have him 6th on my list. We can come back here mid season.
Wait so Jimmy isn’t a superstar because he under performed in on playoff series yet has been generational so far this decade, but Joel embiid isn’t also because he doesn’t perform at all? How that make sense?🤨
Ofc Trae Young has a better resume than Brunson, he was literally handed the team the day he was drafted. This is Jalen Brunson’s first year as the lead PG so compare them now.
Kyrie hasnt played pg in 5 years but its crazy to me how hes this low based off narrative alone he has a chip he has all time playoff moments best handles all time and 50-40-90 making him arguably the most skilled player all time and hes only gotten better and more efficient throughout his career lmao
@@smittyque2567 really? Ig kd doesnt affect winning consistently either, or cp3 or gary payton, or jason kidd, or reggie miller etc etc u know since kd couldnt win unless he joined the greatest team all time and the rest could only get 1 ring or none they dont play winning bball right?
John was Ramsey cookin with that monologue. He hit every note with precision. What made it so good is the fact that he is 100% correct.. about literally everything! NUGGETS FANS STAND UP! People can doubt them all they want! Shit, we should welcome it! I mean, It didn't stop them this year. Jokic, Murray, Gordon, Porter Jr, KCP, Bruce Brown, and Braun da Gawd! Remember those names because every coach and player in the league is going to have a scouting report with 1 or more of them on it. It's feeling like a Jokic decade boys 🏇🏇🏇
First saw Jokic in the "Rookie-Sophmore, USA/World" All Star game - seemed a step slow and disinterested, yet levels ahead. Been a JOY to watch his rise.
That JB Debate had me in TEARS. The whole debate boils down to the term "Superstar" which has always been subjective. I feel like the term was coined as way to gatekeep so I feel like you HAVE to gatekeep to use it. I just happen to be more vicious in my basketball gatekeeping lol. Super star is reserved to draw as well as skill. I just don't find Butler that entertaining to watch personally.
2:17:59 Thats where the disconnect is. Nobody's stripping Jimmy of superstar status. You made the mistake when you assumed he was ever a superstar to begin with. He's a star. Maybe fringe superstar. But if he is a superstar then he needs to get judged and criticized like one
There is no way ya r genuinely having an argument between Dame & SGA rn. On top of the shooting Dame is a significantly better playmaker. Dame is literally a top 5 offensive engine in the league & SGA isn't anywhere near that yet. 😭😭😭
Kyrie not making some of the list is on narrative alone. You can’t ignore the narrative around Ja bc of on court performance w/o doing the same for him.
Collin Sexton as a trade piece for Miami? Somewhat affordable bucket that offers defense. Would fill the role they hoped Dipo could come into. It would also bring back SexLove 🙏
The second I heard y'all boys had Kyrie as the 10th best point guard in the league I knew these lists were gonna get nasty. I didn't realize we had Jalen Brunson and Murray as better players than Kyrie. I don't agree with that. I'm not sure I have Murray over Trae either but I could accept it. Having Tyrese over Trae is egregious though. That's disgusting 🤢. The top 6 of y'all list was great, but that 8-10 is filthy ngl🤣
Also why does Joel make things always two sided. In one breath he’s saying Miami overachieved but then gets upset when Jimmy get credit for overachieving. Like they literally overachieved
call me crazy but I think Trae being Top 5 is more insane then him not being in the top 10 to begin with. He is literally the worst defender in the league, you cant argue him over Fox or even Jamal right now. i’m taking Brunson before i’m taking Trae as a first option
Regardless of Joel Embiid’s playoff career the MVP alone makes him at least a bottom Tier superstar. As far as the Jimmy argument i think both this can be true. We can appreciate Jimmy Bulter but also realize he’s just not in that category of superstardom. He’s really an anomaly
Also the Kd argument was about legendary. He is still all time great. Embiid is a superstar, but he’s not a all time great of this generation those two things are different.
Kd is most definitely a legend. He's arguably the most unique player in the history of the game. Who else is 6'11 can shoot at 50/40/90 rate, can slash, can block shots, and can handle the ball like he does????
Joel isn’t making sense first he said Jimmy didn’t get it done when he miss the shot to go to the finals then he said it’s about him showing up. He showed up last year he just missed the shot. Contradiction
Regular season amazing player + Playoff amazing player = tier 1 superstar. Regular season amazing player = Tier 2, I think that’s fair. Jimmy is a great regular season player and a good post season player. He has amazing games but has a lot of average and then stinker games. That averages out to good in the post season for me.
Also Jimmy is a superstar but not a all time great talent there can be separators. Drew whole point is stripping him of superstar status over one finals performance is idiotic because this hasn’t happened to anyone else
@Marcus Jackson And what's he won? Nothing. So he's not a Batman. Keep hearing he's "not a scorer". If this is true, he CANNOT be a "Number 1 option". Do you see why?!?!?
1:25:05 Tyrese shot 50% from mid-range this past season, Trae Young shot 42%. As we know shooting in the 40s from mid-range is good. Here's the kicker. The volume difference is massive. Trae took a total of 238 mid-range jumpshots this past season, Tyrese took 80. 80 total. He takes less than 2 mid-range jumpers (1.4 to be exact) on average. Trae is the better mid-range shooter when you account for volume.
Trae takes 3.2 mid range jumpers a game and Tyrese takes 1.4. It’s fair to say Trae is a better mid range shooter but Tyrese still has him best as a finisher, 3PT shooter, and as a playmaker. Tyrese was 1st in potential assists this season, 2nd in apg, 1st in AST%, and 4th in box creation
@@pickaside playmaking also includes scoring gravity. I think Trae drawing in defenders on driving and on pick n rolls, creating opportunities for his teammates to score makes him a better playmaker. Tyrese assists numbers don't tell the whole story. Passing can go to Tyrese, playmaking is Trae
A lot of revisionist history going around when it comes to Joel Embiid. It's insane that people even have to ask themselves if the reigning MVP of the league is a superstar. His playoff success, or lack of, shouldn't take that away. He's NEVER had a single healthy post season run in any of his 6 post seasons. His closest was in the bubble when he got swept but averaged 30/12. It's unfortunate (& just bad luck), but it's still crazy to even question his superstar status lol. For someone who's been so injury prone, he's consistently been training his body & playing more games season by season. And I think it's still a bit early for the age argument too. Dream won his rings & MVP at 31, anything is possible.
I could agree with that imo yall needa move on from harden hes way too inconsistent if he has straight 25 pt games that series instead of 40 one game then 15 the next yall probably close it out let maxey run point and go get a pure scorer
@@Shortballa11 Agreed, but we can’t say Embiid doesn’t contribute. He does, especially on the defensive end. He actually had a pretty solid game in that Boston series aside from games 2 & 7 off injury. And I like Beal but his contract is disgusting
@@Casualfan101 I wouldn’t be mad at that. But realistically who would sixers get without offering up an arm & a leg? I feel like keeping harden & looking to move Tobias for a deeper bench would’ve been the best option
Just my opinion there are only 6 superstars in the nba. Lebron Durant curry jokic Giannis and kawhi Everyone else is unproven until they lead their team to win and get the finals mvp (Tatum, Embiid, booker, Luka, dame, butler etc.)
Usung assists to determine passing and plamaking is a wrong casual take. Clearly he dont watch the games or is just lying. Trae is a wayyyy better playmaker
Strictly basketball wise Jimmy and AI is a comp except Jimmy got his team to 2 finals but AND they both was far and beyond playing the Beaton they're team for the first one... Bam played the best for this second one but Jimmy got them there
Saying Jimmy isn’t a true first option but took the heat to 2 finals?!? He’s like top 15 in the nba. Joel just come off too disrespectful 😂 even if there’s some truth in what he sayin
jalen brunson easily clears trae. more efficient in every facet and an actual leader. brunson has an exponentially better impact than trae and the numbers are better too. the trae young efficiency numbers are ass. even in the playoffs he shot 40/33
They was really bulling dude, but he was valid embid is def a superstar, Jimmy is a superstar he just don’t got no moves. That pump fake got old quickly, baseline mid range, old dog he need new tricks.
Not to much on Jimmy I think he’s proven enough 2 finals in 4 years yea he didn’t play great in this one but the heat shouldn’t have even been there. I think if the heat get a Bradley Beal Jimmy can be the number one in that team. There’s not a player in the world that if you replace with Jimmy I think would’ve beaten the nuggets.
John killed that Jokic monologue, that was exactly what all Nuggets and Jokic fans felt for 5 years now... Thank you for that
“What all nuggers fan felt” LMAO bro Nuggets fans didnt exist till this year
@@xyz2024abc bro said nuggers
“I’m not amused” had we weak😭 top 5 drew lines
I love Jimmy, but Drew was kinda bugging during that entire Jimmy discussion. He deserves all the criticism he's getting for his lack of performance in the finals. Kinda was unclear what Drew's point was.
From what I gathered it sounded like he wanted Jimmy to get the credit for being there and when he didn’t perform well put the blame on his injury. Which is a weak argument and I’m a heat fan but if Jimmy isn’t making an excuse for his poor performances and not living up to his standards why make excuses for him. Lowkey tho didn’t like Dehls trying to make it seem like Tatum was getting bullied by the NBA community for little reason and that Jimmy isn’t criticized nearly as much. Tatum’s reasons for failing and standards that he has are different than Jimmy’s so I don’t understand his point there either.
I thought drew was saying Jimmy is a superstar and Joel used the playoffs as a reason why he is not
So happy I witness this Nuggets team. So happy that I see their end of the regular season, knowing that their defensive intensity is still their despite the poor records at the end, knowing that they have kind of figured out the non-Jokic minutes before the playoffs. At the end, so happy I picked this Nuggets team all the way to the final, so happy this team got it done and all the players, coaches got the credits they deserve, so happy Nuggets win the 1st title in franchise history.
A hour long Jimmy Butler debate is everything I need.
There’s a lot to take from the Jimmy playoff performer debate so I’ll try to attack a few points here as a Heat fan. One Riv is right when he stopped Drew for bringing up the 8th seed thing. At some point it’s meaningless. Like it’s a nice footnote to have on your season but that’s it, a footnote. However he’s wrong when he said “they almost blew the series” but that’s the point “almost”. And people forget Game 6 Jimmy gave them the lead at the FT line and the Heat were a Derrick White tip-in away from winning the series a game early. That ain’t on Jimmy, that’s on Max Strus, or just bad luck honestly. I also didn’t like Dehl’s using Tatum’s age as a defense of his last four playoffs compared to Jimmy’s. He’s 25 and in his prime, does his age have anything to do with the fact that he had 100 TOs last year? Nope. Also if Riv wants to use the “almost blew the series” argument with Butler then Tatum and the Celtics almost blew the series against Miami in GM7 last year in the ECF. But that’s not what’re going to do because that’s loser talk and they have to be better than that. You stick with what happened not what could of been
Ironic thing is this series played out exactly how you would think a 1v8 seed would play out 😂. But yea I agree once you win that first round against the bucks that 8 next to the heats name becomes irrelevant
Tbh I think rivs seeding point was a bad example, he brought up the lakers being the 7th seed but after the trade deadline the lakers were one of if not the best teams in the nba, not once during the regular season did the heat look like a contender, we can acknowledge and praise the heat for overachieving while also understanding that Jimmy and the heat did not play well in the finals. I think a lot of people are just on the Jimmy hate train meanwhile most of those same people probably though the heat would get destroyed in round 1.
@@darianp2294 yeah but goes out the window when you make the finals. I think there’s a difference between taking a step back and appreciating the accomplishment vs using it as a way of dismissing anyone’s bad performances. Miami didn’t lose because they were an 8th seed. They lost because they ran out of steam and the offense couldn’t keep up with Denver. Sometimes you just play a team that’s better but by no means is that an excuse to get destroyed like that. Also using the 8th seed as a crutch only adds to the belief that Celtics fans had that “it was our series to win and we blew it” which outside of talent is an inaccurate statement.
Riv trying to argue 2.5 turnovers = 3, thats 41 more turnovers over an 82 game season. LOL
LMFAOOO yea i bugged ngl
Also to go further with Drew’s argument, when you’re put on a podium you’re held to a higher standard and Jimmy didn’t live up to that standard this Finals. It’s just a matter of fact, and yes injuries happen but Butler never used that as an excuse. He wasn’t himself but he also didn’t perform well. He has to share the criticism at some point, you can’t let him skate with his ankle issue. Especially if Drew wants to hold him to the superstar status thing. Sure Jimmy is a superstar but there are different levels of talents. Dame shouldn’t be held to the same status as Jokic or Giannis or Luka or Steph. Those are different breeds.
Bro how did Joel keep his composure when Riv and Drew were saying 2.5 is basically 3 when they were talking about Halis turnovers 😂😂😂 that is so ridiculous lmaooo
Drew: “law of rounding” 🤓
y’all can’t be serious I’m crying 😂😂
for real
Now they’re “rounding” support their argument 😂
joel saying “you don’t get a badge of honor for losing in the finals as an 8 seed” but also pointing out and flexing before the series that the ‘99 knicks were the only other 8 seed to make it, regardless of the result, is just hypocritical😂
Saying the mvp not a superstar is kinda crazy work
Rivs face when he said that too😂😂😂
Nah I’m not gonna lie Drew was doing tricks on it for Jimmy 😭😭
Joel is holding Jimmy to KDs standard and then simultaneously saying he’s not a superstar lol. Jimmy was hurt in the last series. Congrats to Denver. They earned it. Jimmy doesn’t perform well when hurt and there’s evidence to show that.
Jimmy wasn’t hurt.. He even said in a post game interview after game 5 that his ankle wasn’t hurting and that they just flat out lost
@@MathiasG1512 he’s known to say that. He don’t wanna use excuses bc he’s that kinda guy… except his ankle swells up like a golf ball. Heat best writer Ethan skolnick who’s followed the Heat for years and did other teams before that def reported that the Heat acknowledged the injury.
John came in with the 🔥 monologue
Crazy it feels like episode 200 was just a couple months ago and now y’all almost at 300
Drew you was buggin a little bit about the jimmy convo
Jokic as the finals MVP coming up through in a huge way and Jamal Murray were also in a huge way in these NBA finals.🏀💯
Nuggets had a SEVEN game win streak, 10-1 last 11 games...
John was cooking the entire monolouge lmaoooo nobody was safe. And bro a Logic fan too. Happy belated legend.
2:14:39 Im convinced Joel is a complete casual😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yall rlly sleeping on Haliburton. I am completely with Joel on this. Haliburtons floor is 20 n 10 on 50/40 shooting. From here on out he will be an all nba player and I have him 6th on my list. We can come back here mid season.
Agree i'll take Haliburton over Trae every time
Wait so Jimmy isn’t a superstar because he under performed in on playoff series yet has been generational so far this decade, but Joel embiid isn’t also because he doesn’t perform at all? How that make sense?🤨
I agree that losing in the finals shouldn’t change your star status but how you perform does.
Ofc Trae Young has a better resume than Brunson, he was literally handed the team the day he was drafted. This is Jalen Brunson’s first year as the lead PG so compare them now.
Kyrie hasnt played pg in 5 years but its crazy to me how hes this low based off narrative alone he has a chip he has all time playoff moments best handles all time and 50-40-90 making him arguably the most skilled player all time and hes only gotten better and more efficient throughout his career lmao
He doesn't consistently affect winning though and that's the rubber meeting the road.
@@smittyque2567 really? Ig kd doesnt affect winning consistently either, or cp3 or gary payton, or jason kidd, or reggie miller etc etc u know since kd couldnt win unless he joined the greatest team all time and the rest could only get 1 ring or none they dont play winning bball right?
@calebcrawford7531 all them guys consistently got out of the 1st round and went deep into the playoffs. What has Kyrie done before or after LeBron??
John was Ramsey cookin with that monologue. He hit every note with precision. What made it so good is the fact that he is 100% correct.. about literally everything! NUGGETS FANS STAND UP! People can doubt them all they want! Shit, we should welcome it! I mean, It didn't stop them this year. Jokic, Murray, Gordon, Porter Jr, KCP, Bruce Brown, and Braun da Gawd! Remember those names because every coach and player in the league is going to have a scouting report with 1 or more of them on it. It's feeling like a Jokic decade boys 🏇🏇🏇
i actually respect the hell outta moran for standing on that hali>trae take and making valid points
Drew got absolutely owned in the Jimmy debate lol
Wait did John say June 6? That’s my birthday too and I’m also a nuggets fan.
Joel might be the king of flipping on players he was so high on is insane to me
Good lord that was a ton of Hali Trae talk 🤣
Anthony davis and joel embiid are superstars I don't know what I'm listening to right now
First saw Jokic in the "Rookie-Sophmore, USA/World" All Star game - seemed a step slow and disinterested, yet levels ahead.
Been a JOY to watch his rise.
PERMANENT SEAT FOR JOHN!!!!!!! ALL THE FLOWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1:58:11 when u realize that jimmy played 46 GM6 and 48 mins GM7
Joel’s pg list is actually the best one no cap
Nope
That JB Debate had me in TEARS. The whole debate boils down to the term "Superstar" which has always been subjective. I feel like the term was coined as way to gatekeep so I feel like you HAVE to gatekeep to use it. I just happen to be more vicious in my basketball gatekeeping lol. Super star is reserved to draw as well as skill. I just don't find Butler that entertaining to watch personally.
2:17:59 Thats where the disconnect is. Nobody's stripping Jimmy of superstar status. You made the mistake when you assumed he was ever a superstar to begin with. He's a star. Maybe fringe superstar. But if he is a superstar then he needs to get judged and criticized like one
Assists & the Turnover ratio shouldn't be the end all be all for why a guy is a better playmaker wth this is nasty ash 😭😭
Almost turned the vid off when bro say trae young at 10. If you dont think trae young the best point in the east you just a casual.
Why do they say Pacers didnt have another ball handler like Andrew Nembhard a 6'3 PG didn't start almost every game
Letting media control the way ya think cause there’s no fucking way yu watched him this year and said he’s the 10 best pg in the league smh
John be Glazing
2:01:40 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
24:47 Stare, JT, STARE!!!
⚒️🏀🏆
There is no way ya r genuinely having an argument between Dame & SGA rn. On top of the shooting Dame is a significantly better playmaker. Dame is literally a top 5 offensive engine in the league & SGA isn't anywhere near that yet. 😭😭😭
FAX
Dehls talkin about JT is always nasty 😊
Kyrie not making some of the list is on narrative alone. You can’t ignore the narrative around Ja bc of on court performance w/o doing the same for him.
Collin Sexton as a trade piece for Miami? Somewhat affordable bucket that offers defense. Would fill the role they hoped Dipo could come into. It would also bring back SexLove 🙏
He’s basically Tyler hero I guess but idk if he’s worth trading for they’re still not a complete contender
My year this year, promotion, nuggets championship and getting married in July.
Joel u make my head hurt 🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
The second I heard y'all boys had Kyrie as the 10th best point guard in the league I knew these lists were gonna get nasty. I didn't realize we had Jalen Brunson and Murray as better players than Kyrie. I don't agree with that. I'm not sure I have Murray over Trae either but I could accept it. Having Tyrese over Trae is egregious though. That's disgusting 🤢. The top 6 of y'all list was great, but that 8-10 is filthy ngl🤣
Preach 👏
i love you andrew
I would take Jamal over SGA and slot him at 4. Steph Luka and Dame I think are locked 123
I just went back and watched that piston finals Ben Wallace was the best fr
Also why does Joel make things always two sided. In one breath he’s saying Miami overachieved but then gets upset when Jimmy get credit for overachieving. Like they literally overachieved
Why tf did Drew say Embiid was back to back MVP? Am I the only one who caught that in the beginning
call me crazy but I think Trae being Top 5 is more insane then him not being in the top 10 to begin with. He is literally the worst defender in the league, you cant argue him over Fox or even Jamal right now. i’m taking Brunson before i’m taking Trae as a first option
chet was the third option on that gonzaga team
Joel stay cooking butler LMFAOOO
Respect Jimmy Butler. Thank you for your service, Drew 🫡
Regardless of Joel Embiid’s playoff career the MVP alone makes him at least a bottom Tier superstar. As far as the Jimmy argument i think both this can be true. We can appreciate Jimmy Bulter but also realize he’s just not in that category of superstardom. He’s really an anomaly
Also the Kd argument was about legendary. He is still all time great. Embiid is a superstar, but he’s not a all time great of this generation those two things are different.
Kd is most definitely a legend. He's arguably the most unique player in the history of the game. Who else is 6'11 can shoot at 50/40/90 rate, can slash, can block shots, and can handle the ball like he does????
1:57:10 i was indeed amused
Joel isn’t making sense first he said Jimmy didn’t get it done when he miss the shot to go to the finals then he said it’s about him showing up. He showed up last year he just missed the shot. Contradiction
Regular season amazing player + Playoff amazing player = tier 1 superstar. Regular season amazing player = Tier 2, I think that’s fair.
Jimmy is a great regular season player and a good post season player. He has amazing games but has a lot of average and then stinker games. That averages out to good in the post season for me.
Nah Joel was cooking with the embiid takes. Finally people holding that fraud accountable
Also Hali and DG is not close 😂. But i get it that the knicks beat dg and joel finna hate on us all summer 😂😂
People have to stop acting like Jimmy isn't just as bad or worse of a foul grifter as Harden or Embiid.
Also Jimmy is a superstar but not a all time great talent there can be separators. Drew whole point is stripping him of superstar status over one finals performance is idiotic because this hasn’t happened to anyone else
He's Robin, not Batman.
@@darrengordon-hill so is Kareem and Kobe for parts of their careers does not mean their not superstars
@@darrengordon-hill Who is he Robin to? he is was the best player on every team he has been on since the Bulls when Drose was the MVP
@@DLAW137
Kareem is GOAT status; WTF you talking about??
Kobe won an MVP and TWO rings; WTAF are you talking about?!?
@Marcus Jackson
And what's he won?
Nothing.
So he's not a Batman.
Keep hearing he's "not a scorer".
If this is true, he CANNOT be a "Number 1 option".
Do you see why?!?!?
If harden/kd did what Jimmy just did Joel would never stop bringing it up 😂
Tyrese is a better facilitator than trae young? Joel is terrible bro 😂
It’s not really a bad take
It’s close
Riv laughing Joel ass out got me dying free Trae young man
I don’t think you guys understand what a point guard is.
I would take SGA over Dame, but j understand Dames argument
1:25:05 Tyrese shot 50% from mid-range this past season, Trae Young shot 42%. As we know shooting in the 40s from mid-range is good. Here's the kicker. The volume difference is massive. Trae took a total of 238 mid-range jumpshots this past season, Tyrese took 80. 80 total. He takes less than 2 mid-range jumpers (1.4 to be exact) on average. Trae is the better mid-range shooter when you account for volume.
Trae takes 3.2 mid range jumpers a game and Tyrese takes 1.4. It’s fair to say Trae is a better mid range shooter but Tyrese still has him best as a finisher, 3PT shooter, and as a playmaker. Tyrese was 1st in potential assists this season, 2nd in apg, 1st in AST%, and 4th in box creation
@@pickaside playmaking also includes scoring gravity. I think Trae drawing in defenders on driving and on pick n rolls, creating opportunities for his teammates to score makes him a better playmaker. Tyrese assists numbers don't tell the whole story. Passing can go to Tyrese, playmaking is Trae
A lot of revisionist history going around when it comes to Joel Embiid. It's insane that people even have to ask themselves if the reigning MVP of the league is a superstar. His playoff success, or lack of, shouldn't take that away.
He's NEVER had a single healthy post season run in any of his 6 post seasons. His closest was in the bubble when he got swept but averaged 30/12. It's unfortunate (& just bad luck), but it's still crazy to even question his superstar status lol.
For someone who's been so injury prone, he's consistently been training his body & playing more games season by season. And I think it's still a bit early for the age argument too. Dream won his rings & MVP at 31, anything is possible.
Im with you in the first paragraph but it ends there. We see superstars play hurt all the time and find ways to contribute.
I could agree with that imo yall needa move on from harden hes way too inconsistent if he has straight 25 pt games that series instead of 40 one game then 15 the next yall probably close it out let maxey run point and go get a pure scorer
@@Casualfan101 Beal?
@@Shortballa11 Agreed, but we can’t say Embiid doesn’t contribute. He does, especially on the defensive end. He actually had a pretty solid game in that Boston series aside from games 2 & 7 off injury.
And I like Beal but his contract is disgusting
@@Casualfan101 I wouldn’t be mad at that. But realistically who would sixers get without offering up an arm & a leg? I feel like keeping harden & looking to move Tobias for a deeper bench would’ve been the best option
Where;s Mobley in best Investment?
The Iverson hate is nasty
Just my opinion there are only 6 superstars in the nba. Lebron Durant curry jokic Giannis and kawhi
Everyone else is unproven until they lead their team to win and get the finals mvp (Tatum, Embiid, booker, Luka, dame, butler etc.)
😂😂 I'm with joel on the Jimmy take ...you can't say Jimmy is legendary and not put the expectations other legendary players get on him
Usung assists to determine passing and plamaking is a wrong casual take. Clearly he dont watch the games or is just lying. Trae is a wayyyy better playmaker
Plenty of players have been hurt in the playoffs and still performed
Andrew my boricua brother🇵🇷
Strictly basketball wise Jimmy and AI is a comp except Jimmy got his team to 2 finals but AND they both was far and beyond playing the Beaton they're team for the first one... Bam played the best for this second one but Jimmy got them there
This was some of the worst hoops discourse… embiid not a superstar?!
Saying Jimmy isn’t a true first option but took the heat to 2 finals?!? He’s like top 15 in the nba. Joel just come off too disrespectful 😂 even if there’s some truth in what he sayin
maybe because Jimmy did more with less talent. unlike KD. that's triggered Joel 😝
Can we just all agree that that guy reaves is a legitimate bandwagon I mean dude got like 6 teams lol
Aw jimmy hurt Mr flip a side feeling 😂
Bad take Joel. Saying embid is not a superstar
Joel wants to be the faux skip bayless and nick wright so bad lol....
jalen brunson easily clears trae. more efficient in every facet and an actual leader. brunson has an exponentially better impact than trae and the numbers are better too. the trae young efficiency numbers are ass. even in the playoffs he shot 40/33
It's not even close Jalen Bronson all day
FINALLY
They was really bulling dude, but he was valid embid is def a superstar, Jimmy is a superstar he just don’t got no moves. That pump fake got old quickly, baseline mid range, old dog he need new tricks.
I agree with drew
Not to much on Jimmy I think he’s proven enough 2 finals in 4 years yea he didn’t play great in this one but the heat shouldn’t have even been there. I think if the heat get a Bradley Beal Jimmy can be the number one in that team. There’s not a player in the world that if you replace with Jimmy I think would’ve beaten the nuggets.
fox and sabonis is murray and jokic lite come on now
Joel is unbelievably biased and annoying when he argues
Joel used to be cool. But now he’s just tries to keep the show interesting too much by yelling and acting a fool
Kyrie 10 best pg in the league? Ya are very sad smh
he aint man. The position is deep
@@Shortballa11 yu don’t know ball buddy #10? Niggas forgot who tf kyrie Irving is cause of media narratives and shit is sad