Years ago, a very successful friend of my father bought one of the very first high definition large flat screen televisions. He paid $10,000.00 for it. The last tv I bought was higher definition, equal size, and thinner. It was less than $500.00. Let me know when we get there and I'll get an EV. If I can still ride at that point.
@@JoeBManco Weight, range, and charge times are big factors as well. I can fill my bike tank in 2 minutes and get 200 miles of range, while carrying far less weight than an electric bike. Plus, they just don't have the sound. So, why would I pay 2-3x for something that does everything worse?
I mean, price is by far the largest factor for me. Not many choices in that $5000 sweet spot, and the choices that do exist have a few issues. Bring costs down and I’ll be on board 100%. I live in an area where I’d be doing 100% city driving, including narrow downtown roads and outer 2 lane suburban roads and for me, an electric bike is right up my alley.
Great discussion, fellas. Range and price sucks for now - I agree. Thankfully there are plenty of used electric models that ARE NOT reflecting the current economy, unlike cars - you can find a really sweet deal on a used electric motorcycle for much less than a new one. The biggest misconception with electrics is the charging nature - you don't have to fill all the way up to keep going when using DC fast charging. I rode 175 miles yesterday and only had to stop for 15 minutes - which was about how long it took me to walk into the Sheetz station, wizz, wait in line to buy some water, and then come back to the bike. Also, imagine a gasoline fairy that sneaks into your house and refills your motorcycle while you're sleeping - the magic of waking up to a full tank. This is what slow charging overnight feels like with an electric 🤣
I would have a hard time swapping my Triumph Speed Twin for anything electric, but if I was in the market for SCOOTERS I think electric now makes way more sense than ICE.
MY dad used to ride years ago but stopped riding due to life events. We both imported electric motorcycles for about 6k each...and wow the wait was worth it! It's my first motorcycle but we both love them. And these bikes use the same parts a DIYer would use so nothing is locked, its easily serviceable, and honestly the electrical bit is simple. We actually got a motor controller programmer for about $20 and found out we could enable regen (something that wasnt even offered) and we can add a switch to get cruise control! we get about 90mi of range. our recent tripped we stopped, plugged in to some outlets to get some extra charge, and went and had a drink and rested our sore butts! It's honestly so nice. This winter I'm going to be cracking open the battery and adding more cells to extend the range, and add a faster charger so I can use those fast chargers too.
I bought a Livewire One 3 weeks ago. Used to be a Harley Evolution motor guy. Riding on electric motorcycle is more enjoyable vs engine. I cut through the wind now vs pushing the wind.
11:44 If that's the case, then you'd like to keep tabs on the Ultraviolette f77 motorcycle in India. 100 mph, 100+ miles of real world range, removable cells and KTM Duke 390 money.
When I rode a LiveWire it felt like a transcendent form of motorcycling. I don’t see it as a replacement for the ICE until batteries go solid state and electrical infrastructure can support it, but it sure was different in it’s own interesting way. I can see it being in the city where speeds are low for max mileage and power is everywhere.
I actually got a livewire one as my first bike about 5 months ago. It delivers exactly what the guys are talking about in the video, very little maintenance, low fuel cost, and it's so easy to operate. I'd say it would be a perfect beginner bike if didn't have that supersport bike price tag. (even supersports don't cost as much)
@@dabbinghitlersmemes1762 Depends on what your second bike will be. Will it be another EV bike? At the price point of the Livewire, if you are buying that as your first bike there's a good chance you'll buy a second bike that comes out later thats also an EV. Or maybe a livelier 2.
@@dabbinghitlersmemes1762well, actually electric bikes ARE great bikes for beginners. Clutch and shifting is great thing, but there is also one thing, that is much more important - steering. It doesn't matter how good you are with the clutch, if you can't take corner or avoid a pothole. And powerband is a different shit. If your bike has a burst of power on a small range of rpm, it's either purpose built death machine (which shouldn't be anywhere near the streets, lol), or just a poorly tuned piece of crap.
Brilliant analogy "a smooth polished ball" i.e. it can't be polished or smoothed or made any more spherical. Whatever improvements made would be diminishing returns and undetectable. I like it. I agree with the observation "they all look the same at the moment". I wonder how they will differentiate themselves in the future. An electric motor is an electric motor. A cylindrical, highly efficient thing that makes a shaft rotate. None of the personality of the thousands of different engine designs but stupidly easy to own.
I think an electric is an appealing option for someone who already has a bike or two and wants an every day commuter. I've got a KLR and a DR-Z, and it might be nice to have an electric for my rather short commute to a place that has charging stations available. I do think that accelerating through the gears on a regular ICE bike is one of the best experiences in life, and I wouldn't want to give that up, but to just twist the throttle and see nothing but plaid, that's pretty dang cool too, I'll take one of each please.
I have a ninja 400 and an electric scooter by a company named ather. It gives a range of about 100 kilometres on a full charge and literally runs on pennies cuz electricity is cheap where I live. Electric vehicles are good for commuting,but i still take the ninja for anything else
I have the live wire just recently got it too. I love it. Sometimes I’m in Austin so hope I run into Yammie here soon. Definitely saved me monies in the gas department. I have about 2800 miles on it and have yet to fork over them buckaroos per mile.
Considering the short life span of batteries (as opposed to gas powered engines), lengthy charge times, batteries being a hazardous waste, charge capacity degrading by year, battery fires being a thing, and perhaps other downsides I'm forgetting, I don't think I'd want one of these. They deserve to exist and I look forward to technology getting better but we're not yet at a point where combustion engines can be replaced.
You may be misinformed my dude. Your outlook on EV tech is about 5-10 years behind. Batteries are like 95% recyclable and can be completely reused, not to mention, batteries are not end of life after use in a vehicle. They can be used for another 5 years in other applications like energy storage which is already a scheme in use today. Battery fires are quite rare. In fact, the likelihood of your electric vehicle catching fire is less than that of a gas tank rupture. Battery fires make the news more often because of their rarity. It’s confirmation bias. Battery technology has advanced a ton in the past 10 years to the point that now, you’ll find that batteries & motors can easily outlast the most reliable combustion engines with next to no maintenance. The only problems left to solve are infrastructure, charging speed and average range. Things like infrastructure is only solved by time and adoption. Charging speed and range are the real engineering challenges left to tackle and some of the brightest minds around the world are working on it every day.
@@vizualjockey4419then go and buy yourself one, but not force other. It’s like work Jehova witnesses, nobody cares and they still try to sell their shit 💩
Just mowed and edged my yard with all electric equipment . I have a Zero 21 DSR and love it , it's coming fellas , also a 16 Super Duke R. Like you said Spite interesting time to be living in .
For me, range, charge time, and price kill it for me. I think I could get over the other stuff with time. Sure electric bikes are pushing higher and higher ranges, but the charge time isn't there. In the case of a livewire, stopping for 40mins-1 hour every 75-100 miles? That sounds awful, and that also assumes you run it completely dead before every time you charge and just coast into the charging station at 0% which isn't realistic.
To me it makes perfect sense. Imagine if every time you left the house on your bike you had a full tank? How often would you ever have to go to a gas station based on your own real world riding? Sure hwy range is pretty crappy but I don't know any motorcyclists that seek out hwy's to ride. Most of use are looking for the non hwy route. Off hwy these things get great range. I rode my Livewire for 2 hours last week non stop on twisty backroads doing the same speeds that I would do on my Mean Streak and after 2 hours of solid riding I only used 72% of the battery. It was awesome! They definitely aren't for everyone but no bike is. Some people like cruisers and wouldn't dream of owning a sports bike others are all about the dual sports and adventure bikes this is just another category.
I first started on electric motorcycles from Emmo here in Canada, first the monster S scooter, then the zone GTS which was a ninja clone and honestly for as nice as they were and the simplicity of no insurance or license, I don’t think they were worth the money, both broke down not even a year into use, one the controller died the other the batteries failed. I then got a Honda silverwing maxi scooter as my first owned gas vehicle and I’m blown away with the difference. So much faster, so much smoother and comfier (completely different sitting position) and I agree I love to feel it start up and “come alive”. So much better then feeling every little bump and hearing the plastic faring whine. I think I’d fall into the camp that owns both but electric still has a ways to go in terms of reliability. Can’t even ride them in the rain so it’s definitely a niche. Great video :)
I'm in favour of keeping ICE engines, I love the sound and feel of my V4 engine, and the practice of skillful transmission control which is lost to electric motors, but I understand the future requires moving away from hydrocarbon fuels (gasoline/petrol). The way I envision the future of motorcycling preserving what we love about ICE, we should move towards converting ICE engines to hydrogen. It can use the same 4 stroke combustion cycle and engine designs, but with clean emissions (only water is produced by hydrogen combustion), so current engines can be modified to work with hydrogen and the only significant change for manufacturers would be the fuel tank and intake system being set up for safe hydrogen storage. Battery electric can be reserved for cars and trucks, as well as the bikes with DCT/auto transmissions which wouldn't benefit from keeping an ICE engine and might as well switch to a soul-less electric motor which has no transmission anyway and there would be barely any change to the riding experience. Although i'm not certain of how viable it would be with the space and weight constraints at the moment, I'd love to see hybrid hydrogen bikes where it's primarily hydrogen powered, but regenerative braking could power up a relatively small battery which could in turn be used with an integrated motor to supplement low speed torque, leveraging the energy usually lost to heat during braking and the advantage of electric motors having phenomenal torque compared to ICE. Only problem with such a design is the current technological limitations of size and weight, but this is all about the future where miniaturisation and improved efficiency can be expected. 🤷♂
I talked about that to a friend that works in chemistry and he told me that hydrogen storage is incredibly difficult and would be extremely impractical to use as an ICE fuel because of the low efficiency and the danger posed in storing it. And we were talking about cars. As much as I love this idea, it would be way more efficient used in a fuel cell.. to power an electric motor. For ICE we'd still have E85 I guess, that seems an interesting solution, provided it doesn't eff up the food prices.
@@aaronaaronsen3360 I consider any fuel with alcohol (and MTBE before that) "watered down" or "partially combusted" fuel - you know, there is already oxygen in there (hence the term "oxygenated") bound to 1/4 carbon and 1 hydrogen atoms - those atoms do NOT react with oxygen from the air, they just have to be heated up which is basically a waste of energy. The remainder of the fuel is just hydrogen and carbon - those both react with oxygen providing the energy to the engine. Energy wise, it's best to keep any oxygen out of your fuel until it needs to burn. Your friend likely agrees with me.
They will be great for commuting. I had to change my oil almost every 2 months. At $100 for parts and doing it myself... it adds up fast. I need 150 mile range and the ability to do 80mph all day to make the switch.
@@John_Ridley It depends on the kind of oil you use. If you really love your bike, you can feed it some high performance engine oil, which will both last longer and provide superior protection compared to conventional. I often use products like Motul 300V, Rymax Motrax R or Voltronic XM Granturismo for my oil changes, which all cost over 20$/Qt where I live.
@@John_Ridley $10? lol... tiny little bike or something? Really depends on the bike and what it needs. I shopped for a long time for best prices to change my Honda Rebel 1100 and still ended up out $70 after getting everything. Couldn't even get the oil alone for $10, let alone the 2 filters I need. Synth oil has increased in price is I need almost 5 quarts... Oil alone was about $50 buying a gallon and an extra quart.
Informative Video. You might want to Research EUCs. Electric Uni-Cycles. Heck Yammie. Get the Veteran Sherman EUC. Learn to Ride it. Then go out and put 50-100 miles on it in one trip. You may find you enjoy it.
I am actually considering it now for local use. I own a 1250 that gets me down the freeway but I would use a small electric for local shopping and such. They already have them, the European motor-scooters that are 50cc are now being made electric.. They are really cheap (perhaps $2,500US). They will get you to the shop and back or over to a local friends place at suburban road speed. If I worked locally I would own one today but still hold onto my ICE for weekends and fun. I think my situation will become the dominant one for a while. You are not going to replace your HD Road Glide or your BMW "K" series for an electric but you may supplement it with a cheap secondary.
To answer the closing comments about anyone who has switched from all ICE to all EV - there are plenty of folks that have done just that. I'm in quite a few EV motorcycle groups on Facebook, and while there are some owners that own both, there are quite a larger number of riders that switched completely to EV.
I have been riding for 20 years and plan on making the switch to all electric when the prices drop and when the range increases. It's all about energy density which will improve with time.
@@someoldheadtakes same here. A lot of bikes now have 12 or 14 litre tanks on 700cc 900cc and some 1000cc bikes. The range is probably worse than electric. Still no big issue to stop at a petrol station in most cases.
I like how you differentiate between "Motorcyclists" vs. "commuters". The same is true in the automotive world. "enthusiast" or "gearhead" Vs. "commuter". There is a significant difference!
I used to get into deep arguments over EV or ICE. But now I see the bigger picture. I love ICEs but if you ever live in a country where the society is actively and aggressively going for environment protection, you'll eventually understand that it's not just ICE are under threat. One day, you'll feel obliged to take the public transportation over private vehicles (I live in France). I'm a big fan of ICEs but believe me, I LOOOOOVE being able to commute in a private way and nobody is bothering me. EVs are a last resort that protects this experience.
Very good point. I have no issues with better public transit, but I will always want my own personal vehicle. It being either a ICE or EV, I will be damned if I don't have the freedom to go where I please, when I feel like it, and in a speedy manner. I'm only against EVs currently because they are still a too expensive for what they offer. They are essentially where Plasma Flat-screen TVs were in the early 2000s. Once the early 2020s OLED flat-screen equivalent for EVs arrives, then I will make the switch to a more proven platform.
For city traffic there is a lot benefits of riding ebike.. maybe next few years they become more affordable, with long lasting lighter batteries, that can be recharged for couple of minutes...only that would be game changer for ebikes
I have to admit that Livewire looks great for an electric, ... but this world isn't even close to set up for those things in mass. Even if the power grids could handle it there'd have to be a billion charging stations. We think the line up at the gas pumps are too long sometime, just imagine if everything was electric and charge times were "just" 3 hours. In Vancouver here Tesla's are all over the place, .... but so are hybrids with a EVO "Carshare" system that uses pretty much exclusively Toyota Prius's. Maybe the tech isn't there to do that on a motorcycle, or it would just take up too much room, but Hybrids make a lot more sense in my opinion.
Where I live, more and more people are starting to get electric cars. Guess who got stuck in huge lines this summer in highway gas stations ? Funny thing, the Tesla superchargers were mostly empty cause those wheeled iPhones are still super expensive.
Liked the video, great job! Most comparisons were good, but I gotta say the price of a Ninja 400 was totally out of place. Yes, the Ninja 400 has 3-4 times the range and "recharges" 10 times faster, but let's be real. The whole experience is aimed at the Sportster 1200, the Fat Bob 114, and likes of those. Let's hold the 300/400 cc bikes back for comparing to something like the Sonders Metacycle for near $5K. Granted it's not available by the thousands quite yet, but they are "ramping up" production. Yes, I met a guy on a short (1.5 hour) group ride ride who replaced his main bike (didn't ask if he had a backup) with a LiveWire. He had to cut out early to get home before the battery ran out. 90% of my riding is under 10 miles per trip, but I'm not ready to pull the plug on the 5% or less that may be over 100 or over 400 at a time. I choose to only have one bike, so it can't be the Livewire, or even one of the many Zeros.
I'll trade my current bike for an electric bike when 1. The electric bike costs $12,000 (like my current bike) 2. The electric bike weighs less than 190kg (like my current bike) 3. The electric bike has a range of at least 250 km (like my current bike) 4. The electric bike can be refueled (recharged) in 10 minutes or less for the next 250km (like my current bike)
I have an ICE bike that I use as a "toy". Not for transportation, not for commute but just to have fun on the week ends and the occasional road trip. Still, if I had to commute, surely I'd get an electric bike but since it's close, I do it with the old 0MPG bicycle. And if I had to switch, I'd get an e-bicycle, which is a bit cheaper and there the option to remove the battery and charge it wherever you want to.
Has Sir Yammie done a big pull on an electric bike? The 0-60 in 3 seconds could sway him a bit. Electric bikes will only get faster. Then again I agree, the engine rumble is lovely and will be missed.
Thank you guys so much for exploring more into electric bikes!! There’s so little info available comparable to ICE engines and trying to determine the best beginner electric bike is so frustrating with blatantly wrong info on some of the electric bike specs out there.
There's still alot to be developed in the ICE. The most important is the alternative/synthetic fuel source but it's just much easier to jump the ship and let all that R&D go to waste than to put effort into making something revolutionary. But it won't happen until the industry gets out of being under the thumb of Big Oil.
While im not against electric bikes (or cars) it´s nothing i whould like to take out for a nice weekendcruise, perhaps for daily commute to work where it´s not really about enjoying or not but for a prectical purpose.
The livewire is not anywhere close to bleeding edge, HD started to sell them in 2014 and virtually no changes have been made. Battery and charging technology is outdated already. If you want to look at a good electric bike, look at Energica. Concerning switching to all electric, NEWZEROLAND would sure like to have a word with you...
We own 2 ice bikes. Like our cars (we own a truck and a Tesla) I could see us either purchasing an electric motorcycle or replacing one with an electric motorcycle. I could see it making a nice and inexpensive commuter if the prices become reasonable. As it sits I just don’t think they make since. I do like the looks of the live wire though.
I have had my Harley Livewire for one year yesterday , it has cost me about $123 aud to charge for the 8700km I have traveled (5400 miles). I average 50w-h/km. I charge at home and haven't noticed the difference in my power bill When it rains I use either my LS1 powered sedan or the LS1 powered Ute and they get about 13.5L/100km (17.4 mpg US) , the cost difference is huge. But the servicing intervals on the Livewire are the same as Harley's ICE bikes and cost $400 aud , yes I was surprised too and thought WTF do they do. But it's a new bike and I want to keep my warranty. I also have a Ducati Monster 696 , a 2013 Street Bob and an 07 Hyabussa, Committing on the Livewire is great and I absolutely love the bike , but I like the others too. I have never been disappointed in a new bike (the Ducati nearly broke that rule) and am sad that they days of ICE bikes and to a lesser extent cars look like they are drawing to a close. I like the Bussa because it's a big stable bike that doesn't break a sweat to go stoopidly fast and (if you don't turbo it) is absolutely reliable. I like the Ducati because it's light , handles well and even with the stock exhaust performs well and sounds great . I like the Dyna Street Bob because I am quite happy to trundle along at the speed limit , it's fairly simple and affordable to work on and so far the only problems I have had with it are ones I have caused.
I've thought about switching to electric for my commute to work & we're lucky enough in Australia to have a couple of cheap Chinese electric motorcycles on the market that could do the job. We can get a scooter speed version, which is great for most of my commute, for $5000 AUD ride away, or for $3000 AUD more there's one that can go at local freeway speeds. Every time I look at them though the math just doesn't work out. Even with today's silly fuel prices I only spend around $25 AUD a fortnight to fill my 650's tank. That's around $650 AUD per year. At that rate, it would take over 7 1/2 years to break even on the cheapest model compared to a bike that already own. On the more capable & expensive one that blows out to over 12 years. Obviously I've simplified the equation, but even with maintenance costs factored in for both (EV's need tires & brake pads too) It's still a long time for comparatively such a small amount of money. For reference, a Ninja 400 is $8,901 AUD ride away here with ABS. ABS is mandatory for new motorcycles sold in Australia.
Livewire has a range of 235 km, sportster full tank may go 236km, just imagine 10 years from now the electric bike will have stupendous range of 500-600km and fast changing may charge your bike in 15-30 minutes, just just imagine, electricity being comparatively so much cheaper the pros of having a high end EV bike is being able to go ANY FUCKING WHERE at the speed of light for almost no cost, I am a petrol head but I am waiting for electric bikes advancing in technology
Evs must make sound at the press of a button, we can have options weather we want to hear a twin cylinder sound an inline 4 or a fucking x wing/star destroyer
Honestly what i think it is, and ya'll touched on it a little bit, there are just so many different parts unique to every single motorcycle that the culmination of those unique traits creates a distinguishably unique experience. My Yamaha V-Star feels, handles, and provides a experience that is radically different than my Honda CB. Which was a world different than the time i took my dad's Panigale out for a spin. EVs are just lifeless, which will be great for extremely high performance that is about capabilities and not experience, and for incredibly low-end models like scooters or purely economical cafe-bikes.
I'd love a little electric dirt bike to ride around the farm and surrounding trails. No noise to disturb wildlife and neighbours. But I don't see an electric bike ever replacing my long distance ICE sport tourer.
My bikes are the only thing that I own not using diesel. My new CFmoto I got in New Braunfels is actually a fun daily you don't have to dump a ton of money on. Let's see how it does long term.
The biggest issue I have with electric motorcycles is that I get on a bike for a reason. It's not just a way for me to get to work or whatever, that's what cars are for. I get on a bike to have fun and feel free. Range anxiety is so not my idea of feeling free. Hopefully, not too far in the future we get really great battery technology. I don't mind caring about the environment. But as things look right now, I don't think electric bikes are a very good idea.
Ive ridden motorcycles for 20 years. I have just bought my first electric and I do not want an ICE bike anymore. Sorry, but I know some other ppl that did the same. It’s evolution. Big factors for me: no fumes or exhaust smell after a ride, much smoother ride, much h lower maintenance, the subtle sound is way better and won’t make me deaf. Overall, a better ride.
I wouldn't mind having an ice. I have a naked, a dual sport, and a couple scooters all fun to ride. Just being on 2 wheels is fun no matter if fast or slow.
I only own a ev but I can't imagine owning one other than wanting early adopter status and just wanting something unique. My next bike with be a last year 250 or a zx4r. The only reason I want the 250 is for cost and slap a turbo on that bad boy
The problem with electric motor market is they're still lacking long range, mid-performance machine capable of tackling 200 miles on 30-50 horsepower. Either you have piddly-ass scooter or you have impractical superhighway machine, neither of them really fulfill people's expectation.
I own a 99 sportster, that I like riding very much. I've driven an electric bike a few times and there is nothing that compares to the smoothness of riding electric. I did not miss the rumbling or the feeling a lot of people talk about. Electric motorcycles are just a category of their own. Comparing any ICE with an electric is like comparing a cruiser with a scooter, it doesn't really hold up.
When we can rely on the electrical grid to supply us with steady power without rolling blackouts just from our Air Conditioning let alone a wave of new vehicles requiring to be plugged in every night. Then maybe we could be ready for them.
As a musician, the tube amp comparison really hit home. I think that 10-15 years down the line. Electric bikes will far surpass ICE bikes. However, we aren't there yet.
Just traded my 2015 Honda CTX for Zero S and ordered a VW ID4… I love how they ride and drive and my motorcycle shed smells much better as I ride off on my Zero. Putting fuel in my motorcycle has always been one of my least favorite riding activities. I commute 7 miles to work and these vehicles serve my purpose well and are fun!
My brother just bought a livewire a couple months ago and it's amazing. The range definitely hurts its case right now though. He bought his new from a Harley dealer
Time & Money. 😁 Infrastructure (TIME: nobody wants to waste that much time to recharge) and Price (MONEY: way too expensive) are the only major bottlenecks. All other stuff you gotta do living with any piece of equipment...like anything else. Be it cell phones or laptops or TVs...
I can see electric motorcycles first taking a good hold is in the off road market especially motocross bikes. Once a hot swappable battery is developed it will be easy to spend the day at a track and change batteries when needed. The quietness of the bikes would allow new tracks to be built closer to urban areas. It's going to take awhile for the development of the technology to allow electric to be viable for longer distance travel. I don't want a Livewire but will admit that bike rips. I was riding one on the interstate at 55mph and whacked the throttle open, the back tire actually broke loose and chirped. I was triple digits in the blink of an eye. Never ridden a bike with this type of acceleration.
I would only concider electric motorcycles if they were good enough to actually take on longer trips. First numbers that come to mind: 200km range and quick charge in 30mins. They would also need to cost at least the same as the run of the mill ICE bike. Even then I would be hard pressed to give up the feel and sound of an IC engine, but I would at least take it into concideration.
Even if gas went to $10+ a gallon, and electric bikes were on par with ICE in terms of purchase price, I still wouldn't buy one. The ONLY way I would get an electric bike, would be if it does literally everything better than an ICE bike for the same money. Weight, charge times, price, and range would actually need to exceed that of a comparable ICE bike because I'd be willing to overlook some shortcomings for the ICE riding experience. Don't see that happening any time soon.
Electricity prices are not stable here in Europe. They're sky high most places here, and there's also talk of rationing come winter, due to the lack of electricity generation. The war in Ukraine (which affects Gas (not gasoline, but 'Natural Gas') prices, though petrol & diesel prices are also sky high here... also due to the war), the unreliability of wind & solar and the droughts and lack of rain for hydro (the Rhine and Danube have almost dried up) are the 3 main contributing factors. Germany has restarted some coal power plants, but just as a stop-gap measure.
I love the look of the Livewire... I have thought hard about pushing the button... but, would it give me the feeling that my Triumph Rocket 3R gives me? Great topic guys! Thank you.
Papa Yam, you know if they make an EV with a cable throttle - you'll be in line immediately. You're so wonderfully old school I can go back to many a video a year you kvetching about fuel injection ride by wire throttling.
The only thing legitimately new in ICE engines since WW2 has been computer controlled fuel injection and ignition. Nearly everything else has been incremental improvements in port and chamber design as well as better and more consistent metallurgy.
@@durim187 The computer. The electric motor had evolved so much more than ICE engine, but similarly goes for lighter and more powerful build. The computer in new EV basically allow for far better fine tuning than ICE ECU system. There's nothing EV cannot do that an ICE can, you can even emulate sounds, vibration, and smokes. And for fanatic petrolhead, the later is spiritual experience.
@@victoriazero8869 except ICE does it with a gas tank filled with 20 liters. electric motor needs 1200 kg of batteries. thats one complete Lotus elise right there
If I could get any bike I wanted it would definitely be a turbo busa, second pick would be livewire, just keep in mind everyone, fuel pumps need electric to work
Someone should start a company that is like the propane canister industry. Instead of pulling up for a tank of gas, You pull up and swap a cel pack out for a industry standard ( lol goodluck) battery cell pack. They could have like a 4 6 and 8 cell variety for the performance level of the bikes. It would allow electric bikes to be "refueled" in 5-10 min instead of half days
I would honestly love an ev sport atv, the maintinance would be nice, the power will always be there, and i wont piss off my neighbors as much. I only really ride for 15-20 min at a time so that is doable for an ev atv. I would imagine only around 25-40 hp would be good enough for something like that.
They need universal swapable batteries. Go to gas station, swap some batteries on your bike, and keep driving. Also will make it way cheaper. This is the only way I think, unless there is a massive / historical change in battery technology.
I definitely like the concept of electric and the technology, and as they say - the mechanical simplicity. But as a car mechanic, I enjoy all the ins and outs of wrenching. I like ICE over battery for 4 main reasons, 1. The charging time, eventually down the road, this will improve but for now. It's not worth it for me. 2. The cost of the motorcycles. Now I understand as with most new technology, as improvements are made and adoption becomes more mainstream. Prices will come down. But not yet. 3. The sound, you all know what im saying. Silence may be a virtue, but not for bikes. 4. Shifting, the car industry has already taken away most standard gearboxes from cars and replaced most of them with these godawful cvts. I actually enjoy shifting and using a standard gearbox. The electric bikes having no true transmission is a no go for me. So after all this. Sound and shifting will probably keep me from actually buying one indefinitely, but who knows. Maybe someday I'll have a bum leg that I damaged in an appalling figure skating accident. Or at the hands of a local rabid honey badger. You never know. I may be destined against my will for a non shifting electric bike. Lol.
There is a lie at the heart of the ICE industry not just motorcycles. Oil is a finite resource. Think for a second of Drake and his oil well in PA. There was a boom after he drilled his first hole. Pretty soon, there were lots of wells and when a new was drilled, an old one went dry. But with bikes- it's emotional for sure So it seems to me, we have to figure out what that feeling is about riding deep down below the mechanics of the machine. I don't know how to do that.
Gimme 200+ legit miles on a 15 minute charge for the same price as a regular bike and I'll buy an electric bike. So I guess it's never going to happen.
Years ago, a very successful friend of my father bought one of the very first high definition large flat screen televisions. He paid $10,000.00 for it. The last tv I bought was higher definition, equal size, and thinner. It was less than $500.00. Let me know when we get there and I'll get an EV. If I can still ride at that point.
Hopefully it won't take a human generation before that happens. With fuel prices rising,i would still want to keep riding
Perfection👌
Thank you Andrew
Exactly, then the price of an E-motorcycle is the same as any other bike, then I will consider one. Also, I want to see more variety in styles.
@@JoeBManco Weight, range, and charge times are big factors as well. I can fill my bike tank in 2 minutes and get 200 miles of range, while carrying far less weight than an electric bike. Plus, they just don't have the sound. So, why would I pay 2-3x for something that does everything worse?
I mean, price is by far the largest factor for me. Not many choices in that $5000 sweet spot, and the choices that do exist have a few issues. Bring costs down and I’ll be on board 100%.
I live in an area where I’d be doing 100% city driving, including narrow downtown roads and outer 2 lane suburban roads and for me, an electric bike is right up my alley.
EV motorbike demand largely exists in the form of electrified street bicycles used to get around without a licence or many other costs.
Yep a Super73 R is pretty much an 80 pound EV street bike for $3500 and pays for itself in gas + fees.
Great discussion, fellas. Range and price sucks for now - I agree. Thankfully there are plenty of used electric models that ARE NOT reflecting the current economy, unlike cars - you can find a really sweet deal on a used electric motorcycle for much less than a new one. The biggest misconception with electrics is the charging nature - you don't have to fill all the way up to keep going when using DC fast charging. I rode 175 miles yesterday and only had to stop for 15 minutes - which was about how long it took me to walk into the Sheetz station, wizz, wait in line to buy some water, and then come back to the bike. Also, imagine a gasoline fairy that sneaks into your house and refills your motorcycle while you're sleeping - the magic of waking up to a full tank. This is what slow charging overnight feels like with an electric 🤣
I’d love an electric motorcycle for commuting to work. It wouldn’t replace my ICE bike because of the lack of range and recharging time.
I appreciate your honest view on it. You kept it unbiased and truly appreciate it, more ice guys need y’all’s approach.
I would have a hard time swapping my Triumph Speed Twin for anything electric, but if I was in the market for SCOOTERS I think electric now makes way more sense than ICE.
Ya, on the scooter side, electric makes sense. Full size bike, no chance.
MY dad used to ride years ago but stopped riding due to life events.
We both imported electric motorcycles for about 6k each...and wow the wait was worth it!
It's my first motorcycle but we both love them. And these bikes use the same parts a DIYer would use so nothing is locked, its easily serviceable, and honestly the electrical bit is simple. We actually got a motor controller programmer for about $20 and found out we could enable regen (something that wasnt even offered) and we can add a switch to get cruise control!
we get about 90mi of range. our recent tripped we stopped, plugged in to some outlets to get some extra charge, and went and had a drink and rested our sore butts! It's honestly so nice.
This winter I'm going to be cracking open the battery and adding more cells to extend the range, and add a faster charger so I can use those fast chargers too.
Website? What model?
The LiveWire is one of the best looking EV bikes. It just needs to be a quarter to half the currenr price, way faster charging, and a lot more range.
You can fast charge it in less than an hour though, that's pretty quick.
>11 hours to charge from zero to empty
I bought a Livewire One 3 weeks ago. Used to be a Harley Evolution motor guy. Riding on electric motorcycle is more enjoyable vs engine. I cut through the wind now vs pushing the wind.
nice!
11:44 If that's the case, then you'd like to keep tabs on the Ultraviolette f77 motorcycle in India. 100 mph, 100+ miles of real world range, removable cells and KTM Duke 390 money.
If it ever launches 🙄🙄. Has been under production for 3+ years and is going to be expensive than similar performing 200s and 300s
When I rode a LiveWire it felt like a transcendent form of motorcycling. I don’t see it as a replacement for the ICE until batteries go solid state and electrical infrastructure can support it, but it sure was different in it’s own interesting way. I can see it being in the city where speeds are low for max mileage and power is everywhere.
I actually got a livewire one as my first bike about 5 months ago. It delivers exactly what the guys are talking about in the video, very little maintenance, low fuel cost, and it's so easy to operate. I'd say it would be a perfect beginner bike if didn't have that supersport bike price tag. (even supersports don't cost as much)
Is it a perfect beginner bike if you can't learn clutch/shifting/powerbands/etc?
@@dabbinghitlersmemes1762 Depends on what your second bike will be. Will it be another EV bike? At the price point of the Livewire, if you are buying that as your first bike there's a good chance you'll buy a second bike that comes out later thats also an EV. Or maybe a livelier 2.
@@dabbinghitlersmemes1762well, actually electric bikes ARE great bikes for beginners. Clutch and shifting is great thing, but there is also one thing, that is much more important - steering. It doesn't matter how good you are with the clutch, if you can't take corner or avoid a pothole.
And powerband is a different shit. If your bike has a burst of power on a small range of rpm, it's either purpose built death machine (which shouldn't be anywhere near the streets, lol), or just a poorly tuned piece of crap.
@@morgulusthetrollslayer6672 Maybe you should've learnt to ride a bike as toddler. Steering a bicycle is easy, even children can do it.
Brilliant analogy "a smooth polished ball" i.e. it can't be polished or smoothed or made any more spherical. Whatever improvements made would be diminishing returns and undetectable. I like it. I agree with the observation "they all look the same at the moment". I wonder how they will differentiate themselves in the future. An electric motor is an electric motor. A cylindrical, highly efficient thing that makes a shaft rotate. None of the personality of the thousands of different engine designs but stupidly easy to own.
My first bike is a livewire. I love it
I think an electric is an appealing option for someone who already has a bike or two and wants an every day commuter. I've got a KLR and a DR-Z, and it might be nice to have an electric for my rather short commute to a place that has charging stations available.
I do think that accelerating through the gears on a regular ICE bike is one of the best experiences in life, and I wouldn't want to give that up, but to just twist the throttle and see nothing but plaid, that's pretty dang cool too, I'll take one of each please.
I have a ninja 400 and an electric scooter by a company named ather. It gives a range of about 100 kilometres on a full charge and literally runs on pennies cuz electricity is cheap where I live. Electric vehicles are good for commuting,but i still take the ninja for anything else
I have many motos, if that eHD was reasonable I would want one, the torque is real
The tube amp comparison is perfect.
I have the live wire just recently got it too. I love it. Sometimes I’m in Austin so hope I run into Yammie here soon. Definitely saved me monies in the gas department. I have about 2800 miles on it and have yet to fork over them buckaroos per mile.
Considering the short life span of batteries (as opposed to gas powered engines), lengthy charge times, batteries being a hazardous waste, charge capacity degrading by year, battery fires being a thing, and perhaps other downsides I'm forgetting, I don't think I'd want one of these. They deserve to exist and I look forward to technology getting better but we're not yet at a point where combustion engines can be replaced.
Battery’s are a valuable resource for recycling.
You may be misinformed my dude. Your outlook on EV tech is about 5-10 years behind.
Batteries are like 95% recyclable and can be completely reused, not to mention, batteries are not end of life after use in a vehicle. They can be used for another 5 years in other applications like energy storage which is already a scheme in use today. Battery fires are quite rare. In fact, the likelihood of your electric vehicle catching fire is less than that of a gas tank rupture. Battery fires make the news more often because of their rarity. It’s confirmation bias.
Battery technology has advanced a ton in the past 10 years to the point that now, you’ll find that batteries & motors can easily outlast the most reliable combustion engines with next to no maintenance. The only problems left to solve are infrastructure, charging speed and average range. Things like infrastructure is only solved by time and adoption. Charging speed and range are the real engineering challenges left to tackle and some of the brightest minds around the world are working on it every day.
@@vizualjockey4419then go and buy yourself one, but not force other. It’s like work Jehova witnesses, nobody cares and they still try to sell their shit 💩
Just mowed and edged my yard with all electric equipment . I have a Zero 21 DSR and love it , it's coming fellas , also a 16 Super Duke R. Like you said Spite interesting time to be living in .
For me, range, charge time, and price kill it for me. I think I could get over the other stuff with time. Sure electric bikes are pushing higher and higher ranges, but the charge time isn't there. In the case of a livewire, stopping for 40mins-1 hour every 75-100 miles? That sounds awful, and that also assumes you run it completely dead before every time you charge and just coast into the charging station at 0% which isn't realistic.
And that's one of the best charge times a bike offers. Most are only 120 and have like 6 to 12 hour full charge times
To me it makes perfect sense. Imagine if every time you left the house on your bike you had a full tank? How often would you ever have to go to a gas station based on your own real world riding? Sure hwy range is pretty crappy but I don't know any motorcyclists that seek out hwy's to ride. Most of use are looking for the non hwy route. Off hwy these things get great range. I rode my Livewire for 2 hours last week non stop on twisty backroads doing the same speeds that I would do on my Mean Streak and after 2 hours of solid riding I only used 72% of the battery. It was awesome! They definitely aren't for everyone but no bike is. Some people like cruisers and wouldn't dream of owning a sports bike others are all about the dual sports and adventure bikes this is just another category.
I first started on electric motorcycles from Emmo here in Canada, first the monster S scooter, then the zone GTS which was a ninja clone and honestly for as nice as they were and the simplicity of no insurance or license, I don’t think they were worth the money, both broke down not even a year into use, one the controller died the other the batteries failed. I then got a Honda silverwing maxi scooter as my first owned gas vehicle and I’m blown away with the difference. So much faster, so much smoother and comfier (completely different sitting position) and I agree I love to feel it start up and “come alive”. So much better then feeling every little bump and hearing the plastic faring whine. I think I’d fall into the camp that owns both but electric still has a ways to go in terms of reliability. Can’t even ride them in the rain so it’s definitely a niche. Great video :)
I'm in favour of keeping ICE engines, I love the sound and feel of my V4 engine, and the practice of skillful transmission control which is lost to electric motors, but I understand the future requires moving away from hydrocarbon fuels (gasoline/petrol).
The way I envision the future of motorcycling preserving what we love about ICE, we should move towards converting ICE engines to hydrogen. It can use the same 4 stroke combustion cycle and engine designs, but with clean emissions (only water is produced by hydrogen combustion), so current engines can be modified to work with hydrogen and the only significant change for manufacturers would be the fuel tank and intake system being set up for safe hydrogen storage.
Battery electric can be reserved for cars and trucks, as well as the bikes with DCT/auto transmissions which wouldn't benefit from keeping an ICE engine and might as well switch to a soul-less electric motor which has no transmission anyway and there would be barely any change to the riding experience.
Although i'm not certain of how viable it would be with the space and weight constraints at the moment, I'd love to see hybrid hydrogen bikes where it's primarily hydrogen powered, but regenerative braking could power up a relatively small battery which could in turn be used with an integrated motor to supplement low speed torque, leveraging the energy usually lost to heat during braking and the advantage of electric motors having phenomenal torque compared to ICE.
Only problem with such a design is the current technological limitations of size and weight, but this is all about the future where miniaturisation and improved efficiency can be expected. 🤷♂
I talked about that to a friend that works in chemistry and he told me that hydrogen storage is incredibly difficult and would be extremely impractical to use as an ICE fuel because of the low efficiency and the danger posed in storing it. And we were talking about cars.
As much as I love this idea, it would be way more efficient used in a fuel cell.. to power an electric motor.
For ICE we'd still have E85 I guess, that seems an interesting solution, provided it doesn't eff up the food prices.
@@aaronaaronsen3360 I consider any fuel with alcohol (and MTBE before that) "watered down" or "partially combusted" fuel - you know, there is already oxygen in there (hence the term "oxygenated") bound to 1/4 carbon and 1 hydrogen atoms - those atoms do NOT react with oxygen from the air, they just have to be heated up which is basically a waste of energy. The remainder of the fuel is just hydrogen and carbon - those both react with oxygen providing the energy to the engine. Energy wise, it's best to keep any oxygen out of your fuel until it needs to burn. Your friend likely agrees with me.
> skillful transmission control which is lost to electric motor
Watch out, Kawasaki Endeavour is coming 😂
as soon as diamonds are actually rare - then worry about fossil fuels - not to mention - EVs need 90% hydrocarbon powerplants - it's a huge scam
plausible but id rather pay much much more for man made fuel (theoretically possible but expesnive ofc)
They will be great for commuting. I had to change my oil almost every 2 months. At $100 for parts and doing it myself... it adds up fast. I need 150 mile range and the ability to do 80mph all day to make the switch.
The only thing we miss as petrol heads is the sound, imagine having a button to enable sound like ev Mustang
How the heck does it cost $100 for an oil change? About $10 over here even with a filter.
@@John_Ridley It depends on the kind of oil you use. If you really love your bike, you can feed it some high performance engine oil, which will both last longer and provide superior protection compared to conventional. I often use products like Motul 300V, Rymax Motrax R or Voltronic XM Granturismo for my oil changes, which all cost over 20$/Qt where I live.
@@John_Ridley I came here to ask this.
Big sus moment
@@John_Ridley $10? lol... tiny little bike or something? Really depends on the bike and what it needs. I shopped for a long time for best prices to change my Honda Rebel 1100 and still ended up out $70 after getting everything. Couldn't even get the oil alone for $10, let alone the 2 filters I need. Synth oil has increased in price is I need almost 5 quarts... Oil alone was about $50 buying a gallon and an extra quart.
Have a livewire. No engine heat, no winterization, and it just starts. I bike to commute and it's great for it. And it is soo fast.
Informative Video.
You might want to Research EUCs.
Electric Uni-Cycles.
Heck Yammie. Get the Veteran Sherman EUC. Learn to Ride it. Then go out and put 50-100 miles on it in one trip.
You may find you enjoy it.
Definitely agree it will be for the new riders.
I am actually considering it now for local use. I own a 1250 that gets me down the freeway but I would use a small electric for local shopping and such. They already have them, the European motor-scooters that are 50cc are now being made electric.. They are really cheap (perhaps $2,500US). They will get you to the shop and back or over to a local friends place at suburban road speed. If I worked locally I would own one today but still hold onto my ICE for weekends and fun. I think my situation will become the dominant one for a while. You are not going to replace your HD Road Glide or your BMW "K" series for an electric but you may supplement it with a cheap secondary.
I had an electric motorcycle in like 1975. It was probably the first power wheel. It was a police motorcycle.
"First power wheel" LMFAO 🤣😂🤣
@@michaelmurdock4607 😂🤣😂👌
Unless I hear a reliable solid state battery is in production, electric motorcycles are simply not on my radar.
To answer the closing comments about anyone who has switched from all ICE to all EV - there are plenty of folks that have done just that. I'm in quite a few EV motorcycle groups on Facebook, and while there are some owners that own both, there are quite a larger number of riders that switched completely to EV.
I have been riding for 20 years and plan on making the switch to all electric when the prices drop and when the range increases. It's all about energy density which will improve with time.
I'm waiting for the weight to be 200kg
I think the range is fine they have similar range to gas bikes I just could never afford any of them
@@someoldheadtakes same here. A lot of bikes now have 12 or 14 litre tanks on 700cc 900cc and some 1000cc bikes. The range is probably worse than electric. Still no big issue to stop at a petrol station in most cases.
@@chrishart8548 yeah I’m really curious on how long bikes take to charge with things like teslas super charger
I like how you differentiate between "Motorcyclists" vs. "commuters". The same is true in the automotive world. "enthusiast" or "gearhead" Vs. "commuter". There is a significant difference!
I used to get into deep arguments over EV or ICE. But now I see the bigger picture. I love ICEs but if you ever live in a country where the society is actively and aggressively going for environment protection, you'll eventually understand that it's not just ICE are under threat. One day, you'll feel obliged to take the public transportation over private vehicles (I live in France). I'm a big fan of ICEs but believe me, I LOOOOOVE being able to commute in a private way and nobody is bothering me. EVs are a last resort that protects this experience.
Very good point. I have no issues with better public transit, but I will always want my own personal vehicle. It being either a ICE or EV, I will be damned if I don't have the freedom to go where I please, when I feel like it, and in a speedy manner.
I'm only against EVs currently because they are still a too expensive for what they offer. They are essentially where Plasma Flat-screen TVs were in the early 2000s. Once the early 2020s OLED flat-screen equivalent for EVs arrives, then I will make the switch to a more proven platform.
Lol, 09:28 "eleven hours to charge from zero to empty"
Great video btw.
For city traffic there is a lot benefits of riding ebike.. maybe next few years they become more affordable, with long lasting lighter batteries, that can be recharged for couple of minutes...only that would be game changer for ebikes
I have to admit that Livewire looks great for an electric, ... but this world isn't even close to set up for those things in mass. Even if the power grids could handle it there'd have to be a billion charging stations. We think the line up at the gas pumps are too long sometime, just imagine if everything was electric and charge times were "just" 3 hours. In Vancouver here Tesla's are all over the place, .... but so are hybrids with a EVO "Carshare" system that uses pretty much exclusively Toyota Prius's. Maybe the tech isn't there to do that on a motorcycle, or it would just take up too much room, but Hybrids make a lot more sense in my opinion.
a hybrid bike would be expensive as hell and very heavy.
Where I live, more and more people are starting to get electric cars. Guess who got stuck in huge lines this summer in highway gas stations ?
Funny thing, the Tesla superchargers were mostly empty cause those wheeled iPhones are still super expensive.
Liked the video, great job! Most comparisons were good, but I gotta say the price of a Ninja 400 was totally out of place. Yes, the Ninja 400 has 3-4 times the range and "recharges" 10 times faster, but let's be real. The whole experience is aimed at the Sportster 1200, the Fat Bob 114, and likes of those.
Let's hold the 300/400 cc bikes back for comparing to something like the Sonders Metacycle for near $5K. Granted it's not available by the thousands quite yet, but they are "ramping up" production.
Yes, I met a guy on a short (1.5 hour) group ride ride who replaced his main bike (didn't ask if he had a backup) with a LiveWire. He had to cut out early to get home before the battery ran out.
90% of my riding is under 10 miles per trip, but I'm not ready to pull the plug on the 5% or less that may be over 100 or over 400 at a time. I choose to only have one bike, so it can't be the Livewire, or even one of the many Zeros.
I'll trade my current bike for an electric bike when
1. The electric bike costs $12,000 (like my current bike)
2. The electric bike weighs less than 190kg (like my current bike)
3. The electric bike has a range of at least 250 km (like my current bike)
4. The electric bike can be refueled (recharged) in 10 minutes or less for the next 250km (like my current bike)
BOTH are great motorcycles and with a good pair of Flying Eyes sunglasses I'd look cool riding around town.
Great video! Lol I’m about to watch it now
I have an ICE bike that I use as a "toy". Not for transportation, not for commute but just to have fun on the week ends and the occasional road trip.
Still, if I had to commute, surely I'd get an electric bike but since it's close, I do it with the old 0MPG bicycle. And if I had to switch, I'd get an e-bicycle, which is a bit cheaper and there the option to remove the battery and charge it wherever you want to.
Has Sir Yammie done a big pull on an electric bike? The 0-60 in 3 seconds could sway him a bit. Electric bikes will only get faster. Then again I agree, the engine rumble is lovely and will be missed.
9.28 I like how he says it takes 11 hours to charge from 0 to empty🤣🤣
Thank you guys so much for exploring more into electric bikes!! There’s so little info available comparable to ICE engines and trying to determine the best beginner electric bike is so frustrating with blatantly wrong info on some of the electric bike specs out there.
There's still alot to be developed in the ICE. The most important is the alternative/synthetic fuel source but it's just much easier to jump the ship and let all that R&D go to waste than to put effort into making something revolutionary. But it won't happen until the industry gets out of being under the thumb of Big Oil.
While im not against electric bikes (or cars) it´s nothing i whould like to take out for a nice weekendcruise, perhaps for daily commute to work where it´s not really about enjoying or not but for a prectical purpose.
The livewire is not anywhere close to bleeding edge, HD started to sell them in 2014 and virtually no changes have been made. Battery and charging technology is outdated already. If you want to look at a good electric bike, look at Energica. Concerning switching to all electric, NEWZEROLAND would sure like to have a word with you...
I just watch your videos, whatever you guys put up. It's fine
We own 2 ice bikes. Like our cars (we own a truck and a Tesla) I could see us either purchasing an electric motorcycle or replacing one with an electric motorcycle. I could see it making a nice and inexpensive commuter if the prices become reasonable. As it sits I just don’t think they make since. I do like the looks of the live wire though.
I have had my Harley Livewire for one year yesterday , it has cost me about $123 aud to charge for the 8700km I have traveled (5400 miles). I average 50w-h/km.
I charge at home and haven't noticed the difference in my power bill
When it rains I use either my LS1 powered sedan or the LS1 powered Ute and they get about 13.5L/100km (17.4 mpg US) , the cost difference is huge.
But the servicing intervals on the Livewire are the same as Harley's ICE bikes and cost $400 aud , yes I was surprised too and thought WTF do they do.
But it's a new bike and I want to keep my warranty.
I also have a Ducati Monster 696 , a 2013 Street Bob and an 07 Hyabussa,
Committing on the Livewire is great and I absolutely love the bike , but I like the others too.
I have never been disappointed in a new bike (the Ducati nearly broke that rule) and am sad that they days of ICE bikes and to a lesser extent cars look like they are drawing to a close.
I like the Bussa because it's a big stable bike that doesn't break a sweat to go stoopidly fast and (if you don't turbo it) is absolutely reliable.
I like the Ducati because it's light , handles well and even with the stock exhaust performs well and sounds great .
I like the Dyna Street Bob because I am quite happy to trundle along at the speed limit , it's fairly simple and affordable to work on and so far the only problems I have had with it are ones I have caused.
I've thought about switching to electric for my commute to work & we're lucky enough in Australia to have a couple of cheap Chinese electric motorcycles on the market that could do the job. We can get a scooter speed version, which is great for most of my commute, for $5000 AUD ride away, or for $3000 AUD more there's one that can go at local freeway speeds. Every time I look at them though the math just doesn't work out. Even with today's silly fuel prices I only spend around $25 AUD a fortnight to fill my 650's tank. That's around $650 AUD per year. At that rate, it would take over 7 1/2 years to break even on the cheapest model compared to a bike that already own. On the more capable & expensive one that blows out to over 12 years. Obviously I've simplified the equation, but even with maintenance costs factored in for both (EV's need tires & brake pads too) It's still a long time for comparatively such a small amount of money. For reference, a Ninja 400 is $8,901 AUD ride away here with ABS. ABS is mandatory for new motorcycles sold in Australia.
Livewire has a range of 235 km, sportster full tank may go 236km, just imagine 10 years from now the electric bike will have stupendous range of 500-600km and fast changing may charge your bike in 15-30 minutes, just just imagine, electricity being comparatively so much cheaper the pros of having a high end EV bike is being able to go ANY FUCKING WHERE at the speed of light for almost no cost, I am a petrol head but I am waiting for electric bikes advancing in technology
I am a student in India owning a 650, I can't go much far as fuel costs are fuckall.... so you may understand why this matters to me
Evs must make sound at the press of a button, we can have options weather we want to hear a twin cylinder sound an inline 4 or a fucking x wing/star destroyer
Yammie been hit’n the weights? Those arms are getting ginormous.
Honestly what i think it is, and ya'll touched on it a little bit, there are just so many different parts unique to every single motorcycle that the culmination of those unique traits creates a distinguishably unique experience. My Yamaha V-Star feels, handles, and provides a experience that is radically different than my Honda CB. Which was a world different than the time i took my dad's Panigale out for a spin. EVs are just lifeless, which will be great for extremely high performance that is about capabilities and not experience, and for incredibly low-end models like scooters or purely economical cafe-bikes.
I'd love a little electric dirt bike to ride around the farm and surrounding trails. No noise to disturb wildlife and neighbours.
But I don't see an electric bike ever replacing my long distance ICE sport tourer.
Seems wiser to buy a high MPG ICE bike. Several out there getting 75-100 MPG, for 5-10k out the door. You’re never recouping that cost on the EV
My bikes are the only thing that I own not using diesel. My new CFmoto I got in New Braunfels is actually a fun daily you don't have to dump a ton of money on. Let's see how it does long term.
The biggest issue I have with electric motorcycles is that I get on a bike for a reason. It's not just a way for me to get to work or whatever, that's what cars are for.
I get on a bike to have fun and feel free. Range anxiety is so not my idea of feeling free. Hopefully, not too far in the future we get really great battery technology. I don't mind caring about the environment. But as things look right now, I don't think electric bikes are a very good idea.
probably a good take would be ev to drive in the city to the office and back and everything else ice bc it is just a wonderful experience
I am ICE all the way. I would own an ev but 50% of why I ride is because I love the look and sound of my V-Twin.
Ive ridden motorcycles for 20 years. I have just bought my first electric and I do not want an ICE bike anymore. Sorry, but I know some other ppl that did the same. It’s evolution. Big factors for me: no fumes or exhaust smell after a ride, much smoother ride, much h lower maintenance, the subtle sound is way better and won’t make me deaf. Overall, a better ride.
I wouldn't mind having an ice. I have a naked, a dual sport, and a couple scooters all fun to ride. Just being on 2 wheels is fun no matter if fast or slow.
Sounds like you do have an ice.
I only own a ev but I can't imagine owning one other than wanting early adopter status and just wanting something unique. My next bike with be a last year 250 or a zx4r. The only reason I want the 250 is for cost and slap a turbo on that bad boy
I wonder why nobody ever mentions the complete inability of our current electrical grid to support the mass adoption of ev's?
The problem with electric motor market is they're still lacking long range, mid-performance machine capable of tackling 200 miles on 30-50 horsepower. Either you have piddly-ass scooter or you have impractical superhighway machine, neither of them really fulfill people's expectation.
I own a 99 sportster, that I like riding very much. I've driven an electric bike a few times and there is nothing that compares to the smoothness of riding electric. I did not miss the rumbling or the feeling a lot of people talk about. Electric motorcycles are just a category of their own. Comparing any ICE with an electric is like comparing a cruiser with a scooter, it doesn't really hold up.
When we can rely on the electrical grid to supply us with steady power without rolling blackouts just from our Air Conditioning let alone a wave of new vehicles requiring to be plugged in every night. Then maybe we could be ready for them.
As a musician, the tube amp comparison really hit home. I think that 10-15 years down the line. Electric bikes will far surpass ICE bikes. However, we aren't there yet.
Just traded my 2015 Honda CTX for Zero S and ordered a VW ID4… I love how they ride and drive and my motorcycle shed smells much better as I ride off on my Zero. Putting fuel in my motorcycle has always been one of my least favorite riding activities. I commute 7 miles to work and these vehicles serve my purpose well and are fun!
My brother just bought a livewire a couple months ago and it's amazing. The range definitely hurts its case right now though. He bought his new from a Harley dealer
Do it! It's great as an n + 1 bike for sure. I have a triumph and a zero. In the real world people roll up to me and give tons of compliments.
I will say I'm relatively new. Started in May of this year.
I just got a zero a couple of weeks ago and I think I might end up with an ICE as a second bike
@@Zee216 I don't see an issue there. What kind did you get? I have a dsr
@@biggums3368 I got an FXE and I love it, I just can't get more than 40 miles of range
@@Zee216 ah yea makes sense. Ultimate commuter. I'm on the highway a bunch so I wanted the higher range and stronger motor without paying srf money
those ev comuter bikes can never give me a thrill like the experience of the tripple in my fz09 or the inline 4 in my 02 r1
I got a Ducati Scrambler Icon Dark... that's my argument...
Time & Money. 😁 Infrastructure (TIME: nobody wants to waste that much time to recharge) and Price (MONEY: way too expensive) are the only major bottlenecks. All other stuff you gotta do living with any piece of equipment...like anything else. Be it cell phones or laptops or TVs...
I can see electric motorcycles first taking a good hold is in the off road market especially motocross bikes. Once a hot swappable battery is developed it will be easy to spend the day at a track and change batteries when needed. The quietness of the bikes would allow new tracks to be built closer to urban areas. It's going to take awhile for the development of the technology to allow electric to be viable for longer distance travel.
I don't want a Livewire but will admit that bike rips. I was riding one on the interstate at 55mph and whacked the throttle open, the back tire actually broke loose and chirped. I was triple digits in the blink of an eye. Never ridden a bike with this type of acceleration.
I would only concider electric motorcycles if they were good enough to actually take on longer trips. First numbers that come to mind: 200km range and quick charge in 30mins. They would also need to cost at least the same as the run of the mill ICE bike.
Even then I would be hard pressed to give up the feel and sound of an IC engine, but I would at least take it into concideration.
Even if gas went to $10+ a gallon, and electric bikes were on par with ICE in terms of purchase price, I still wouldn't buy one. The ONLY way I would get an electric bike, would be if it does literally everything better than an ICE bike for the same money. Weight, charge times, price, and range would actually need to exceed that of a comparable ICE bike because I'd be willing to overlook some shortcomings for the ICE riding experience. Don't see that happening any time soon.
Electricity prices are not stable here in Europe. They're sky high most places here, and there's also talk of rationing come winter, due to the lack of electricity generation. The war in Ukraine (which affects Gas (not gasoline, but 'Natural Gas') prices, though petrol & diesel prices are also sky high here... also due to the war), the unreliability of wind & solar and the droughts and lack of rain for hydro (the Rhine and Danube have almost dried up) are the 3 main contributing factors. Germany has restarted some coal power plants, but just as a stop-gap measure.
I love the look of the Livewire... I have thought hard about pushing the button... but, would it give me the feeling that my Triumph Rocket 3R gives me?
Great topic guys! Thank you.
I want into biking, but I don’t want the maintenance so electric bikes are my jam BUUUT the “early adopter tax” is such a killer 😢
great vid
Papa Yam, you know if they make an EV with a cable throttle - you'll be in line immediately. You're so wonderfully old school I can go back to many a video a year you kvetching about fuel injection ride by wire throttling.
The only thing legitimately new in ICE engines since WW2 has been computer controlled fuel injection and ignition. Nearly everything else has been incremental improvements in port and chamber design as well as better and more consistent metallurgy.
So whats new in electric engines then?
Jesus when you put WW2 in there it really does make you stop and think .....Why aren't I vacationing to the moon by now ? 🤔
@@durim187 electricity is super old
@@durim187 The computer. The electric motor had evolved so much more than ICE engine, but similarly goes for lighter and more powerful build. The computer in new EV basically allow for far better fine tuning than ICE ECU system. There's nothing EV cannot do that an ICE can, you can even emulate sounds, vibration, and smokes. And for fanatic petrolhead, the later is spiritual experience.
@@victoriazero8869 except ICE does it with a gas tank filled with 20 liters. electric motor needs 1200 kg of batteries. thats one complete Lotus elise right there
I am going to reserve judgement until I've heard the Livewire with a set of Screaming Eagle pipes.
Dont forget to keep watching yammie noob
If I could get any bike I wanted it would definitely be a turbo busa, second pick would be livewire, just keep in mind everyone, fuel pumps need electric to work
Someone should start a company that is like the propane canister industry. Instead of pulling up for a tank of gas, You pull up and swap a cel pack out for a industry standard ( lol goodluck) battery cell pack. They could have like a 4 6 and 8 cell variety for the performance level of the bikes. It would allow electric bikes to be "refueled" in 5-10 min instead of half days
Electric bikes, once they crack the lower sub 200cc market in Asia and Europe (scooters and underbones) they'll be a mainstay.
Ebikes have a ton of variety in drive types. Not a lot of 2wd ice bikes or hub motors fwd only mid drives.
I own both for 4 years now, range is the killer for EV's but I love both of them.
Got package for you ☝️📦📦!
I would honestly love an ev sport atv, the maintinance would be nice, the power will always be there, and i wont piss off my neighbors as much. I only really ride for 15-20 min at a time so that is doable for an ev atv. I would imagine only around 25-40 hp would be good enough for something like that.
They need universal swapable batteries. Go to gas station, swap some batteries on your bike, and keep driving. Also will make it way cheaper. This is the only way I think, unless there is a massive / historical change in battery technology.
9:26 and it takes 11 hour to charge from zero to empty :v
I definitely like the concept of electric and the technology, and as they say - the mechanical simplicity. But as a car mechanic, I enjoy all the ins and outs of wrenching. I like ICE over battery for 4 main reasons, 1. The charging time, eventually down the road, this will improve but for now. It's not worth it for me. 2. The cost of the motorcycles. Now I understand as with most new technology, as improvements are made and adoption becomes more mainstream. Prices will come down. But not yet. 3. The sound, you all know what im saying. Silence may be a virtue, but not for bikes. 4. Shifting, the car industry has already taken away most standard gearboxes from cars and replaced most of them with these godawful cvts. I actually enjoy shifting and using a standard gearbox. The electric bikes having no true transmission is a no go for me. So after all this. Sound and shifting will probably keep me from actually buying one indefinitely, but who knows. Maybe someday I'll have a bum leg that I damaged in an appalling figure skating accident. Or at the hands of a local rabid honey badger. You never know. I may be destined against my will for a non shifting electric bike. Lol.
Hopefully you won't damage a leg during your ballerina performances either🤘 😁
@@Kris_P._Bey_Ken exactly!
There is a lie at the heart of the ICE industry not just motorcycles. Oil is a finite resource. Think for a second of Drake and his oil well in PA. There was a boom after he drilled his first hole. Pretty soon, there were lots of wells and when a new was drilled, an old one went dry.
But with bikes- it's emotional for sure
So it seems to me, we have to figure out what that feeling is about riding deep down below the mechanics of the machine. I don't know how to do that.
Gimme 200+ legit miles on a 15 minute charge for the same price as a regular bike and I'll buy an electric bike. So I guess it's never going to happen.