@@FMD-FullMetalDragon Honestly though china has many serious issue with it's ethnic/religious minorities, it's still much better than saudi. In china women can own property and walk around without male chaperone. Though homosexuality is frowned upon, it's not illegal. Again, not saying it's a free country by any means but definitely better
I think some of the skepticism is well placed, but BO3 single round robin is at minimum, the same amount of games we get in a double round BO1, plus we get to see draft adaptation. Hope it works, looking forward to watching it, still wish we could get a higher quantity of games.
The reason I am for this news is the fact that Bo3s are lot easier for me to get engaged in. In addition with how the league meta has been, I really hate when a team brings out a niche/pocket pick and catches another team offguard and not get to see how the team that lost would adjust to it. It’s so much more fun imo and the league has already declined with Bo1 format so I appreciate them giving us Bo3 lovers what we’ve been wanting for awhile now.
@@Daedalus33, it had been up for 11 seconds and I have never had the opportunity to be the first comment on something that fresh. I shot my shot. No regrets.
So I’m not sure how much it resonates with the “average” fan but if given the options between last split’s format of double round robin with 8 teams vs single round with bo3, I’m definitely happy with the change. The main thing I want is to see a more compelling and accurate representation of strength throughout the league and I think a single bo3 is more indicative of that than 2 isolated bo1
Would be nice if they would do a double round robin giving each team a red side and blue side advantage. A couple superweeks and an early / late add on would allow the time. We have way too long breaks in the LCS.
No it wouldn't. Double round robin is a 14 week season, you could make it 12 weeks if you have 2 superweeks but you still have to add 2 weeks due to break for Saudi's tournament, so you back up to 14. If they start at the beginning of June, they would finish the regular season mid September which is way too late. Trying to condense the season down further will just lead to problems. The only way to do Double round robin with best of 3s is to have multiple streams.... which is what they did last time...
@@Wulfeylol That requires enough viewership to afford doubling the pay to all the production. Pretty much impossible since the current problem is viewership.
I think there is a creative and effective way to do both BO1 and BO3 during a split. Either by mixing up BO3 and BO1 on the same days or changing to 3 days a week. You know worlds usually has a BO1 Stage and B03 stage only makes sense to have Live experience with both types during the split. Creates opportunity for the creative teams that might innovate to win the BO1 compared to more well rounded teams who can adapt and take over a BO3 series. I think this is also the only thing to make teams actually try a rare or really unique draft or pick on stage. Ive been a huge fan of the LCS and LOL sense it first began. I still try to watch every game no matter the day or times. So i understand i could be unique or bias in this thinking. But i do understand the possible kickback of the huge in devour of making this happen and the sustainability, and trying to register with the newer viewer. All that said i really like the idea of BO3. One round robin is just still not enough games. I get there has to be practice and days for review for teams. I just cant grasp how Live in game experience, adapting to actually playing out team fights and macro situations when it matters most isn't the best practice you can get. Teams have to get more games during the split if they ever want to narrow the gap. Hard work wins. Lazy scrims or lack of focus practices benefits no one. Put the game on the line make it count. If you want results the focus has to be to play more. If you can beat LCK and LPL teams, possibly win worlds. Viewers and players will join the hype. Always been that way. Hope LCS teams could put egos aside and just work hard and become better people and teamates and find ways to win.
I'm definitely sad to see single round robin but otherwise I'm pretty excited. Mainly just the hope that the league stays as competitive as it was this split so we average above 5 games and LCS can last a little longer. The cut down time between games was amazing but also it happening the split we go to 8 teams definitely made some of those LCS days feel like quick little 3 hour banger streams and then nothing for another week which wasn't great. I do feel like average viewership will probably go down with this, and I hate that because of what it will probably mean for the league, but as a fan who plans on being here it kinda seems like we were headed that way anyways so I would rather the viewing experience (and competitive experience) be the best it can be now, if it's gonna die let it die trying to show us some competition and not just ten players rolling out of bed for another scrim they don't care about cause 75% of the league makes playoffs anyways and nothing matters until best of series start.
Best of 3 sounds better, even as a single round robin we get same amount of games + a tie breaker for each I do agree that bo3 of the 2 bottom teams might get tedious, but overall I like the idea, in the end whatever helps the lcs grow for me.
The lcs not doing 2 round robins bo3 is just outrageous. There are so many ways they could do it. And finances is a BS reason, they games don’t need to have the full budget, and the players NEED to play more games.
My honest opinions as a long time fan of 1 team. I wouldn't call myself a fan of LCS, but my favorite team plays in the region. Here are a couple of things I like from this change: 1. Depending on scheduling (assuming it's going to be like VCT) I like that I have gained a whole extra day, I no longer have to worry about catching a game on both Saturday and Sunday. 2. I am probably going to watch the team that plays before (not sure about after) because I have a whole free day rather than tuning in for 1 game and going back to doing things. 3. Less variance. I will mostly know how good the teams are going into a game now that it's bo3 Some things I am hesitant about: 1. Game quality. If the meta is solved and it's just the same games over and over I would get bored faster because we potentially doubled the amount of games in a patch. 2.if a team crash and burns thats a lot of wasted air time 3. LONG games. I'm down for a 55 min game, but if it's 3 55 min games back to back, I will want to die. Single round robin: I think it's fine actually. I hated it last year in vct but once playoffs came around but the mystery kinda built up the hype. "Team 1 beat team 2 in week 1 but since then Team 2 has shown massive improvement." If this is the only price we have to pay for bo3 I would be fine with it.
It can definetley be the case where less popular teams like Immortals, Dig game days are goimg to have really low viewership, and game days with polular teams just ends up with average viewership. Hopefully thats not the case, but maybe there will be some other benefits to the change.
I really like bo3 because it allows for draft adaptation in a non playoff match i think the only reason it didn't work last time we tried it was because the teams involved didn't have a lot of hype for the lower teams but now that the league is a bit more competitive with itself it leads to people watching the games that they wouldn't have when it was the first time at attempted it
With only 8 teams in the League now and how the league looked in Spring, I'm excited for B03s. One of he biggest arguments for the decline of viewership with Bo3s is that there are matches that people don't want to watch 3 times, but I think all teams were pretty competitive last split and some just needed more stage time. I started watching LCS back around the time when it did Bo3s and I loved it. I've missed it a lot these years since. Plus Travis, your biggest argument is that viewership will decline, but sadly, viewership is declining as is with Bo1s anyway. LCS needed a big change and the Bo1s double round robin did not feel good to me with only 8 teams. It felt too short, too crunched, and it felt like teams were not adequately given the time to improve and show what they can do. Wish it was double round robin Bo3s, but I feel like this is a compromise headed in the right direction, considering the limitations that Riot has.
I'll be one watching MORE for best of threes. I've always been more of a vod reviewer but now I see more value in being present while the games are playing on. I, for one, HATE watching a series where I know the outcome (usually spoiled by the comments or vod length, besides caedrel)
Thanks as always for covering the league Travis! I tend to be on the side of trying new things and I definitely feel like bo3s might be something that can help...not sure about only doing a single round robin though I feel like that almost defeats the purpose of trying the bo3s. It'll also be interesting to see what playoff format they are hoping to use for summer finals i think that plays a role as well
What I actually find interesting is that they are implementing this change mid season instead of btw seasons. Maybe it shows how efficient the new commissioner is!
Before last split started, I agreed (and for many of the same reasons). However I think many teams are on such a fairly close level that I was excited to watch almost all of the games, so I think it will be true in the summer, and as long as skill levels are similar, this should be a good change. Instead of 1 game of rank 10 vs rank 9 team clown fiesta we get potentially 3!!!! And in the case of rank 1 vs rank 10, it'll either be a quick 2-0 and it won't matter much OR the rank 10 pulls a win and it gets interesting.
Who cares about viewership at this point. The people who watch LCS are committed to it. Riot is NOT capturing new viewers, they are watching Valorant. Let's make LCS a good product to actually watch, not just a product that 12 year olds will watch.
This is a naive and borderline dumb take, it is still a business at the end of things, you cant just say fuck viewership when it is the justification to have the league in the first place, and 12 year olds are not impacted by the length of matches, but casual viewers who are not interested in one single match potentially taking over an hour or two, especially if the teams playing are not competitive or interesting.
@@FayeSabre There are no casual viewers anymore. They all left for Valorant. There is no more viewers to capture, what LCS gets right now are loyal viewers, not casuals. You are the one with the dumb take.
Although a single round robin isn’t ideal, I’m excited for Bo3. I believe teams will start innovating draft a bit more. I wonder how it’s going to be with pre recorded drafts?
Genuinely think this will propell the LCS to new heights in terms of competition, this bridges the gap in skill between the regions and even offers more opportunities for academy players to play a game.
Best of 3's would be amazing for the LCS. It'll put the NA players at a better chance vs. the other international regions. More games = more playing time, practice, strategies, more serious gameplay. If the LPL, LCK and LEC are already doing this and perform much better on the international stage, why wouldn't we in LCS?
I'm disappointed, this was the best split of the LCS in a while but I get this was the best compromise to get BO3s into the format. At least we're not going back to 10 teams.
I think for serious fans of the league this is an improvement, but it might hurt viewership among more casual fans. But I do hope that trade will pay off in the long term. The single round robin doesn't feel great, but a double round robin Bo1 with eight teams already felt bad. Dropping two teams made a 38% reduction in games, a fact that Riot seems to just be sweeping under the rug. Every single match could go to the third game and it's still fewer games in a season than we had with ten teams before. Meanwhile, most fans and as far as I hear all of the pros view more stage games as one of if not the biggest format priority. I can't speak for everyone, but if the problem really is just budget, I'd happily take more games at lower production quality, up to and including half of the games played remotely. So, an improvement over last split, but a half-assed one in the larger scheme of things. The break and the Esports World Cup are just dumb. Do better Riot.
I like BO3's, but in the right situation. I like BO3's (and BO5's) because you can get more hyped up about a matchup between 2 rivalling teams and see the matchup evolve over the course of the matches. However, in the case of the LCS (and also LEC) I don't prefer BO3's for the regular season, certainly not if this implies that it will only be a single round robin. In the LCK and LPL it (BO3's in the regular season) works well because, let's be honest, the general skill level and level of play is higher and more exiting to see. But even there, if you have 2 lower tier teams matching up it can become boring. With BO1's it can be a boring match but hey, it's 1 game and it's on to the next match which might be more exiting. With a BO3 there it can turn into 3 boring games back to back and then you've lost me as a viewer. My ideal situation still remains BO1 for the regular season with a double round robin and then some sort of playoffs with BO3's and BO5's. You could argue about what the best format for playoffs would be (only the top 4, 6 or even 8 teams, upper bracke/lower bracket, you loose you're out or getting another chance etc etc.), but in playoff's things matter more generally, as you're fighting for the championship and spots in international events. During the regular season you're only fighting for "not being bottom 2" aka preparing for playoffs.
I think it is an interesting idea. I am not overly bothered by single round robin. It means teams have a 14-21 game regular season as opposed to our current flat 14. Hope they find a way to make each day have one solid best of 3. Thanks for the update Travis! Is the commissioner still coming on Hotline League next Monday?
I somewhat agreed with your take that best of 3s wouldn't be good for the game in NA with your focus on past best of 3 experience and how viewership flopped. An issue with having best of 3s, but not extending production days misses why lck and lpl are succesful with having almost entire week coverage from wednesday to sunday. They will also schedule the most exciting games on fridays and saturdays. It seems pretty clear that NA is lacking the funding to expand production days, but wants to change their schedule to be like korea and china and thinks that will improve the experience.
seems insane but imo should be round robin bo1 for first half of season and bo3 for the second half. round robin bo1 can be done insanely fast and there would be time to do bo3's (especially because the summer season ends insanely early nowadays in comparison to when worlds happens unlike spring) It's also better because we see how teams initially perform versus each other (in bo1) and then how thye stack up against each other again in a way more competitive environment because its bo3.
I think the biggest take away is that LCS is committed to trying different things and is attempting to listen. SO even if it fails, I think it's nice that they (markz) is trying.
so LCK has 10 teams, and each team played 18 games in the regular season each being a BO3 (i could be wrong on the each being). How is this in any way going to have us be competitive with them doing a signle round robin with 8 teams in the regular season????
If the teams are as competitive as the last split and if they all look good, then I do believe Bo3 would be a good thing. But if there's any really bad teams. It would be boring to watch the top teams dominate the bottom teams and it be an easy 2-0 series.. i feel like it just depends on how good the teams are in summer split..
the first league event i ever went to was lcs spring last year in raleigh! i wanted to go again this year if it was somewhat close to me but i didnt want to travel out to california :(
Why are people thinking this is a good idea. Triple round Robin and forcing teams to adapt to each other is so much better than a bo3 no one wants to watch.
Is there a reason why NA has been reluctant to follow LCKs format? I know its a lot more time in the studio and a longer day for the casters but i'm curious what are the hold ups in it? LCK teams seems to do pretty well at MSI and Worlds, why not follow what they do?
work ethic, people in LA are extremely lazy and self centered, people in Korea are driven to me thats literally the only logic and reasoning as to why the differences are there considering the amount of MONEY that is poured into the LCS each year by the teams rosters and sponsors.
glad for the Bo3, think that if they want to fix viewership we need to give a shit about the ppl that play week to week. maybe they need to have more player content and streams etc. i'd love for the lcs to link up and do more stuff with OCE maybe take the lcs to sydney/melb/ brisbane for the first few weeks of the split.
You know what helps viewship, doing SOMETHING internationally. Hoping this makes BO3s more comfortable for NA and we do something for once. Fans just stopped holding out hope after 10 years and that’s the plain truth. Nobody wants to invest their time and energy watching these teams just for them to get bounced the first round at every international event. It’s exhausting.
I support the move to be a Bo3 but to be honest I’d watch the LCS no matter the format. I did get pretty bored during this season in the mid season. I’ve watched almost every year of the LCS, and I personally prefer series vs single games. I think better teams tend to shine in series vs best of one. All things considered I’m happy to support mark in this, as I’m a big fan of his in general
Personally, I am excited for the return of Bo3. I definitely understand Travis' concerns though... Hopefully, it all works out and the LCS will finally be winning Worlds!
I'm excited for best of threes but not particularly excited about the single round robin. I don't understand how other leagues can do it but we can't. It seems silly.
I massively would have prefered a triple round robin B01 over one round robin bo3. That latter just feels lacking somewhat. I would like a team time to grow over split, over worrying that they lost to 'an easy team' early in split and now only have hard teams to beat if they want to make playoffs.
Nice lcs might actually play enough games to be competitive in tournaments, and staff might have enough on stage practice to make draft changes thay matter.
single round robin only do 2 days is bad. The number of games is up, but the matches are down, so you only get to watch your team once a week instead of twice. IMO the best season LCS had was 2021. The carry over record from spring to summer meant teams had to try in spring more than usual and summer was a triple round robin so we had plenty of games.
I like the idea of a single round robin, best of 3s. I think single average or over time, but leaves more room for variation. Like I think IMT might have a worse record, with best of 3. I doubt they beat C9. And C9 would have a better record.
I would love to see you be wrong about this but also for people to understand that your career is literally dependent on the LCS to get higher views! (Also just commenting so your stuff gets more traction as well and hope we have a super fun MSI!)
I personally know that I'll like the best of 3 format, but I agree overall it'll probably have a negative affect on viewership. Single round robin is definitely not ideal though.
Eh bo1 double round robin on live patch wasn't great as it just turned into flavor of the moment matches. Bo3 at least gives a team a moment to not be caught by that and hopefully get us better games and prep for 1 team a week so hopefully stronger matches. But single round robin still means if you face an opponent on a swingy patch change and get rolled you've got so little chance to recover. 7 series into play offs is so unforgiving. As for time i really feel the all teams play each week means 4 weeks of play right now with a 2 week break in the middle is so short. I feel like double round robin with 4 weeks of play 2 week mid season break and then 4 weeks of play into a 1 month playoff is a much more reasonable and enjoyable length. I think because of trying to squeeze 2 international tournaments (or more) into a schedule hurts the competition and watching international teams just roll you every year is only so fun. Maybe that's the problem maybe it should turn into more of a world cup type thing instead of world title kind of yearly event. Let the local scenes play out much longer and how they want then every other year (not every 4) do a couple month county based tournament (instead of 4 korean/4china/3 us/3 eu) maybe if you force people to make mixed country team it could allow for interesting upsets.
Glad to see them go back to BO3 it is more entertaining and will also get the LCS to keep more fans at the facility for longer. LCS needs to focus on being entertaining in the USA more. They already missed their opportunity to provide more in person games for fans which is becoming their downfall.
Really liked this video (and the last about bo3) and I see your point. I can see this going either way but I hope it works. But I do think (anf hope) what riot will get huge flame for that world cup shit
I consider myself an average fan, and I prefer Bo3 just for the sake of more practice for our teams when they go to international events. I am curious as to what you consider an average fan though
I don't really care about viewership, at all. I care about level of competition and player skill, western regions have shown a lack of ability to meaningfully improve for YEARS. And bo3s absolutely will help with that part of why I think eastern regions are so vastly ahead is because we do bo1s instead of bo3s, there's a reason 99% of esports aren't bo1, it doesn't constitute as high a level as competition as bo3's do. I'll gladly eat my words if lcs stays dogshit, but I doubt it will.
I just wanted more games than the 14 we got last split. This likely gives us more, but I'm not sure it's exactly what I was hoping for. Still, I'm excited to see how it plays out. I wasn't watching the last time we did bo3, so I'm not sure what to expect.
8 teams in the league one team plays against 7 others so at most 21 games, at least 14, its not a big change and single round robin kind of sucks as teams will be better or worse on different patches, wish we could just copy the LCK's format.
Hey Travis, you said you read every comment so I wanted to say I love all of your content, but also ask a question -- what would you think of a format where a coach from each team is able to be on stage and in game as a spectator?
I hated single games so fuckin boring and felt like nothin is achieved, just whoever gets lucky in draft and game. BO3 brings better drafts and makes you feel like ur watching something that matters. Can’t wait to start watching LCS again
Hallelujah! I have wanted best of 3s to return forever. And this is from someone who had to suffer through best of 3s for post Breaking Point Team Liquid. (Midlet was pretty funny, though.)
Its kind of sad. I watch the LCK finals and they have a full stadium, multi-million views, a great pre-show, etc... Then I watch the LCS/LEC and its in a warehouse of 20 people with no pre-show.
It should always be a bo3 this kind of format helps the players get more time playing and practice. look at the format in the recent split all those frauds won bo1s but TL are the kings of bo5s.
Brutal Totalitarian Regime was a great line lmao
was he talking about riot or saudi arabia?
@@milkman2266 yes
and its edited meaning he said something else originally lol
Is Saudi worse than China....??
@@FMD-FullMetalDragon Honestly though china has many serious issue with it's ethnic/religious minorities, it's still much better than saudi. In china women can own property and walk around without male chaperone. Though homosexuality is frowned upon, it's not illegal. Again, not saying it's a free country by any means but definitely better
I think some of the skepticism is well placed, but BO3 single round robin is at minimum, the same amount of games we get in a double round BO1, plus we get to see draft adaptation. Hope it works, looking forward to watching it, still wish we could get a higher quantity of games.
you can get 1 more game depending on not 2-0ing. so technically more games?
@@davidflaherty2152 Yessir, At minimum, same amount, maximum 50% more games.
B01 is an absolutely useless waste of time.
No one wants to watch a bad bo3 this is the worst decision Riot has made.
@@Jose-cr3zn I watch bad BO3s all the time. LEC. LCK, LPL. They all have bad BO3s. If you don't like the region then you won't watch. Is what it is.
Love how u just immediately start with the news, no filler. This kind of content rocks.
i think we interact on twitter sometimes, but you and i might be the only glocca morra enjoyers in lolesports
The reason I am for this news is the fact that Bo3s are lot easier for me to get engaged in. In addition with how the league meta has been, I really hate when a team brings out a niche/pocket pick and catches another team offguard and not get to see how the team that lost would adjust to it. It’s so much more fun imo and the league has already declined with Bo1 format so I appreciate them giving us Bo3 lovers what we’ve been wanting for awhile now.
Dope!
Edit: just got to the single round robin part... I'd like to modify to a more medium dope level.
Lol you didn’t even watch 20 seconds into the video before commenting?? Wild
Me too 😂
@@Daedalus33, it had been up for 11 seconds and I have never had the opportunity to be the first comment on something that fresh. I shot my shot. No regrets.
@@sslusky i respect that
So I’m not sure how much it resonates with the “average” fan but if given the options between last split’s format of double round robin with 8 teams vs single round with bo3, I’m definitely happy with the change. The main thing I want is to see a more compelling and accurate representation of strength throughout the league and I think a single bo3 is more indicative of that than 2 isolated bo1
There is the really obvious better method of triple round Robin that actually forces teams to adapt to each other
Would be nice if they would do a double round robin giving each team a red side and blue side advantage. A couple superweeks and an early / late add on would allow the time. We have way too long breaks in the LCS.
No it wouldn't. Double round robin is a 14 week season, you could make it 12 weeks if you have 2 superweeks but you still have to add 2 weeks due to break for Saudi's tournament, so you back up to 14. If they start at the beginning of June, they would finish the regular season mid September which is way too late. Trying to condense the season down further will just lead to problems. The only way to do Double round robin with best of 3s is to have multiple streams.... which is what they did last time...
@@arthurmarshall6825 or just have more game days a week like lck
@@Wulfeylol That requires enough viewership to afford doubling the pay to all the production. Pretty much impossible since the current problem is viewership.
Just do loser get side selection
me checking the upload date isn't april 1st
I think there is a creative and effective way to do both BO1 and BO3 during a split. Either by mixing up BO3 and BO1 on the same days or changing to 3 days a week. You know worlds usually has a BO1 Stage and B03 stage only makes sense to have Live experience with both types during the split. Creates opportunity for the creative teams that might innovate to win the BO1 compared to more well rounded teams who can adapt and take over a BO3 series. I think this is also the only thing to make teams actually try a rare or really unique draft or pick on stage. Ive been a huge fan of the LCS and LOL sense it first began. I still try to watch every game no matter the day or times. So i understand i could be unique or bias in this thinking. But i do understand the possible kickback of the huge in devour of making this happen and the sustainability, and trying to register with the newer viewer. All that said i really like the idea of BO3. One round robin is just still not enough games. I get there has to be practice and days for review for teams. I just cant grasp how Live in game experience, adapting to actually playing out team fights and macro situations when it matters most isn't the best practice you can get. Teams have to get more games during the split if they ever want to narrow the gap. Hard work wins. Lazy scrims or lack of focus practices benefits no one. Put the game on the line make it count. If you want results the focus has to be to play more. If you can beat LCK and LPL teams, possibly win worlds. Viewers and players will join the hype. Always been that way. Hope LCS teams could put egos aside and just work hard and become better people and teamates and find ways to win.
Thanks Mark
I'm definitely sad to see single round robin but otherwise I'm pretty excited. Mainly just the hope that the league stays as competitive as it was this split so we average above 5 games and LCS can last a little longer. The cut down time between games was amazing but also it happening the split we go to 8 teams definitely made some of those LCS days feel like quick little 3 hour banger streams and then nothing for another week which wasn't great. I do feel like average viewership will probably go down with this, and I hate that because of what it will probably mean for the league, but as a fan who plans on being here it kinda seems like we were headed that way anyways so I would rather the viewing experience (and competitive experience) be the best it can be now, if it's gonna die let it die trying to show us some competition and not just ten players rolling out of bed for another scrim they don't care about cause 75% of the league makes playoffs anyways and nothing matters until best of series start.
i feel this as well. so many times it ended and i felt unsatisfied wanting more. that sucked and hopefully these go full 3 games often as you say.
Best of 3 sounds better, even as a single round robin we get same amount of games + a tie breaker for each I do agree that bo3 of the 2 bottom teams might get tedious, but overall I like the idea, in the end whatever helps the lcs grow for me.
Travis in shambles
Pumped about this news. Hope its good for the league.
I hope things start to look up for you Travis. You are so great and I hope that you can continue to work on this channel
The lcs not doing 2 round robins bo3 is just outrageous. There are so many ways they could do it. And finances is a BS reason, they games don’t need to have the full budget, and the players NEED to play more games.
My honest opinions as a long time fan of 1 team. I wouldn't call myself a fan of LCS, but my favorite team plays in the region. Here are a couple of things I like from this change:
1. Depending on scheduling (assuming it's going to be like VCT) I like that I have gained a whole extra day, I no longer have to worry about catching a game on both Saturday and Sunday.
2. I am probably going to watch the team that plays before (not sure about after) because I have a whole free day rather than tuning in for 1 game and going back to doing things.
3. Less variance. I will mostly know how good the teams are going into a game now that it's bo3
Some things I am hesitant about:
1. Game quality. If the meta is solved and it's just the same games over and over I would get bored faster because we potentially doubled the amount of games in a patch.
2.if a team crash and burns thats a lot of wasted air time
3. LONG games. I'm down for a 55 min game, but if it's 3 55 min games back to back, I will want to die.
Single round robin: I think it's fine actually. I hated it last year in vct but once playoffs came around but the mystery kinda built up the hype. "Team 1 beat team 2 in week 1 but since then Team 2 has shown massive improvement." If this is the only price we have to pay for bo3 I would be fine with it.
It can definetley be the case where less popular teams like Immortals, Dig game days are goimg to have really low viewership, and game days with polular teams just ends up with average viewership. Hopefully thats not the case, but maybe there will be some other benefits to the change.
Peak LCS was bo3s. Super fucking hyped and this helps rookies get more stage time on their resume
I really like bo3 because it allows for draft adaptation in a non playoff match i think the only reason it didn't work last time we tried it was because the teams involved didn't have a lot of hype for the lower teams but now that the league is a bit more competitive with itself it leads to people watching the games that they wouldn't have when it was the first time at attempted it
With only 8 teams in the League now and how the league looked in Spring, I'm excited for B03s. One of he biggest arguments for the decline of viewership with Bo3s is that there are matches that people don't want to watch 3 times, but I think all teams were pretty competitive last split and some just needed more stage time. I started watching LCS back around the time when it did Bo3s and I loved it. I've missed it a lot these years since. Plus Travis, your biggest argument is that viewership will decline, but sadly, viewership is declining as is with Bo1s anyway. LCS needed a big change and the Bo1s double round robin did not feel good to me with only 8 teams. It felt too short, too crunched, and it felt like teams were not adequately given the time to improve and show what they can do. Wish it was double round robin Bo3s, but I feel like this is a compromise headed in the right direction, considering the limitations that Riot has.
Thanks for the update, Travis
I'll be one watching MORE for best of threes. I've always been more of a vod reviewer but now I see more value in being present while the games are playing on. I, for one, HATE watching a series where I know the outcome (usually spoiled by the comments or vod length, besides caedrel)
Thanks as always for covering the league Travis! I tend to be on the side of trying new things and I definitely feel like bo3s might be something that can help...not sure about only doing a single round robin though I feel like that almost defeats the purpose of trying the bo3s. It'll also be interesting to see what playoff format they are hoping to use for summer finals i think that plays a role as well
What I actually find interesting is that they are implementing this change mid season instead of btw seasons. Maybe it shows how efficient the new commissioner is!
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
Excited for best of 3s, I get the production limits but single round robin is a bummer for sure
Before last split started, I agreed (and for many of the same reasons). However I think many teams are on such a fairly close level that I was excited to watch almost all of the games, so I think it will be true in the summer, and as long as skill levels are similar, this should be a good change. Instead of 1 game of rank 10 vs rank 9 team clown fiesta we get potentially 3!!!! And in the case of rank 1 vs rank 10, it'll either be a quick 2-0 and it won't matter much OR the rank 10 pulls a win and it gets interesting.
Love the best of 3! Sucks to be single round Robin, but better than what we had.
Who cares about viewership at this point. The people who watch LCS are committed to it. Riot is NOT capturing new viewers, they are watching Valorant. Let's make LCS a good product to actually watch, not just a product that 12 year olds will watch.
This is a naive and borderline dumb take, it is still a business at the end of things, you cant just say fuck viewership when it is the justification to have the league in the first place, and 12 year olds are not impacted by the length of matches, but casual viewers who are not interested in one single match potentially taking over an hour or two, especially if the teams playing are not competitive or interesting.
@@FayeSabre There are no casual viewers anymore. They all left for Valorant. There is no more viewers to capture, what LCS gets right now are loyal viewers, not casuals. You are the one with the dumb take.
Although a single round robin isn’t ideal, I’m excited for Bo3. I believe teams will start innovating draft a bit more. I wonder how it’s going to be with pre recorded drafts?
Genuinely think this will propell the LCS to new heights in terms of competition, this bridges the gap in skill between the regions and even offers more opportunities for academy players to play a game.
Best of 3's would be amazing for the LCS. It'll put the NA players at a better chance vs. the other international regions. More games = more playing time, practice, strategies, more serious gameplay. If the LPL, LCK and LEC are already doing this and perform much better on the international stage, why wouldn't we in LCS?
I want more games and to be able to see all the teams every week. If this change leads to that great.
I'm disappointed, this was the best split of the LCS in a while but I get this was the best compromise to get BO3s into the format. At least we're not going back to 10 teams.
I think for serious fans of the league this is an improvement, but it might hurt viewership among more casual fans. But I do hope that trade will pay off in the long term.
The single round robin doesn't feel great, but a double round robin Bo1 with eight teams already felt bad. Dropping two teams made a 38% reduction in games, a fact that Riot seems to just be sweeping under the rug. Every single match could go to the third game and it's still fewer games in a season than we had with ten teams before. Meanwhile, most fans and as far as I hear all of the pros view more stage games as one of if not the biggest format priority. I can't speak for everyone, but if the problem really is just budget, I'd happily take more games at lower production quality, up to and including half of the games played remotely.
So, an improvement over last split, but a half-assed one in the larger scheme of things.
The break and the Esports World Cup are just dumb. Do better Riot.
From my view, any change is good at this point. It will get me to at least check in for the first couple weeks before I get bored.
I like BO3's, but in the right situation. I like BO3's (and BO5's) because you can get more hyped up about a matchup between 2 rivalling teams and see the matchup evolve over the course of the matches. However, in the case of the LCS (and also LEC) I don't prefer BO3's for the regular season, certainly not if this implies that it will only be a single round robin. In the LCK and LPL it (BO3's in the regular season) works well because, let's be honest, the general skill level and level of play is higher and more exiting to see. But even there, if you have 2 lower tier teams matching up it can become boring. With BO1's it can be a boring match but hey, it's 1 game and it's on to the next match which might be more exiting. With a BO3 there it can turn into 3 boring games back to back and then you've lost me as a viewer.
My ideal situation still remains BO1 for the regular season with a double round robin and then some sort of playoffs with BO3's and BO5's. You could argue about what the best format for playoffs would be (only the top 4, 6 or even 8 teams, upper bracke/lower bracket, you loose you're out or getting another chance etc etc.), but in playoff's things matter more generally, as you're fighting for the championship and spots in international events. During the regular season you're only fighting for "not being bottom 2" aka preparing for playoffs.
I think it is an interesting idea. I am not overly bothered by single round robin.
It means teams have a 14-21 game regular season as opposed to our current flat 14.
Hope they find a way to make each day have one solid best of 3.
Thanks for the update Travis! Is the commissioner still coming on Hotline League next Monday?
I somewhat agreed with your take that best of 3s wouldn't be good for the game in NA with your focus on past best of 3 experience and how viewership flopped. An issue with having best of 3s, but not extending production days misses why lck and lpl are succesful with having almost entire week coverage from wednesday to sunday. They will also schedule the most exciting games on fridays and saturdays. It seems pretty clear that NA is lacking the funding to expand production days, but wants to change their schedule to be like korea and china and thinks that will improve the experience.
seems insane but imo should be round robin bo1 for first half of season and bo3 for the second half. round robin bo1 can be done insanely fast and there would be time to do bo3's (especially because the summer season ends insanely early nowadays in comparison to when worlds happens unlike spring) It's also better because we see how teams initially perform versus each other (in bo1) and then how thye stack up against each other again in a way more competitive environment because its bo3.
I think the biggest take away is that LCS is committed to trying different things and is attempting to listen. SO even if it fails, I think it's nice that they (markz) is trying.
Extremely excited. I doubt anyone wants a single round robin but anything that involves best of 3 ups my interest greatly.
Do we know the timeslot/days for the games?
so LCK has 10 teams, and each team played 18 games in the regular season each being a BO3 (i could be wrong on the each being). How is this in any way going to have us be competitive with them doing a signle round robin with 8 teams in the regular season????
BEST VIDEO I'VE SeEN TRAVIS MAKE SO FAR!
If the teams are as competitive as the last split and if they all look good, then I do believe Bo3 would be a good thing. But if there's any really bad teams. It would be boring to watch the top teams dominate the bottom teams and it be an easy 2-0 series.. i feel like it just depends on how good the teams are in summer split..
the first league event i ever went to was lcs spring last year in raleigh! i wanted to go again this year if it was somewhat close to me but i didnt want to travel out to california :(
Best of three interview format now
Why are people thinking this is a good idea. Triple round Robin and forcing teams to adapt to each other is so much better than a bo3 no one wants to watch.
I remember bo3 back in the day and I remember being happy it ended.
Is there a reason why NA has been reluctant to follow LCKs format? I know its a lot more time in the studio and a longer day for the casters but i'm curious what are the hold ups in it? LCK teams seems to do pretty well at MSI and Worlds, why not follow what they do?
work ethic, people in LA are extremely lazy and self centered, people in Korea are driven
to me thats literally the only logic and reasoning as to why the differences are there considering the amount of MONEY that is poured into the LCS each year by the teams rosters and sponsors.
single round robin is kind of expected but this is dope
Cant unsee that bloodied tooth
The frustrating thing to me is that Bo1 and Bo3 are not the only options. Regions have done Bo2s before and they seem like a great compromise
glad for the Bo3, think that if they want to fix viewership we need to give a shit about the ppl that play week to week. maybe they need to have more player content and streams etc. i'd love for the lcs to link up and do more stuff with OCE maybe take the lcs to sydney/melb/ brisbane for the first few weeks of the split.
I don’t feel strongly either way so I’m interested in trying it. 2 week break for a tournament ran by the saudi government is awful though
You know what helps viewship, doing SOMETHING internationally. Hoping this makes BO3s more comfortable for NA and we do something for once. Fans just stopped holding out hope after 10 years and that’s the plain truth. Nobody wants to invest their time and energy watching these teams just for them to get bounced the first round at every international event. It’s exhausting.
I support the move to be a Bo3 but to be honest I’d watch the LCS no matter the format. I did get pretty bored during this season in the mid season. I’ve watched almost every year of the LCS, and I personally prefer series vs single games. I think better teams tend to shine in series vs best of one. All things considered I’m happy to support mark in this, as I’m a big fan of his in general
Bro that's so fucking good finally God damn.
Personally, I am excited for the return of Bo3. I definitely understand Travis' concerns though...
Hopefully, it all works out and the LCS will finally be winning Worlds!
LCS died when it became a franchise
This.
makes a series more crucial as they only play vs each other once a split. I'm for it
I'm excited for best of threes but not particularly excited about the single round robin. I don't understand how other leagues can do it but we can't. It seems silly.
I massively would have prefered a triple round robin B01 over one round robin bo3. That latter just feels lacking somewhat. I would like a team time to grow over split, over worrying that they lost to 'an easy team' early in split and now only have hard teams to beat if they want to make playoffs.
Nice lcs might actually play enough games to be competitive in tournaments, and staff might have enough on stage practice to make draft changes thay matter.
When does summer split start???
im so sorry travis
single round robin only do 2 days is bad. The number of games is up, but the matches are down, so you only get to watch your team once a week instead of twice. IMO the best season LCS had was 2021. The carry over record from spring to summer meant teams had to try in spring more than usual and summer was a triple round robin so we had plenty of games.
I think most people want more games per LCS season, whatever the format is. Maybe one day...
I hope that they do the Fearless drafting for playoffs at least!
I like the idea of a single round robin, best of 3s.
I think single average or over time, but leaves more room for variation.
Like I think IMT might have a worse record, with best of 3. I doubt they beat C9. And C9 would have a better record.
I like bo3 but agree with Travis that this is likely to not help viewership (we already saw this happen).
I would love to see you be wrong about this but also for people to understand that your career is literally dependent on the LCS to get higher views! (Also just commenting so your stuff gets more traction as well and hope we have a super fun MSI!)
I personally know that I'll like the best of 3 format, but I agree overall it'll probably have a negative affect on viewership. Single round robin is definitely not ideal though.
Single round robin kind of sucks but it's worth a try, no?
I love it. Now with less teams and more equal games this could be great.
Eh bo1 double round robin on live patch wasn't great as it just turned into flavor of the moment matches. Bo3 at least gives a team a moment to not be caught by that and hopefully get us better games and prep for 1 team a week so hopefully stronger matches. But single round robin still means if you face an opponent on a swingy patch change and get rolled you've got so little chance to recover. 7 series into play offs is so unforgiving.
As for time i really feel the all teams play each week means 4 weeks of play right now with a 2 week break in the middle is so short. I feel like double round robin with 4 weeks of play 2 week mid season break and then 4 weeks of play into a 1 month playoff is a much more reasonable and enjoyable length. I think because of trying to squeeze 2 international tournaments (or more) into a schedule hurts the competition and watching international teams just roll you every year is only so fun.
Maybe that's the problem maybe it should turn into more of a world cup type thing instead of world title kind of yearly event. Let the local scenes play out much longer and how they want then every other year (not every 4) do a couple month county based tournament (instead of 4 korean/4china/3 us/3 eu) maybe if you force people to make mixed country team it could allow for interesting upsets.
Glad to see them go back to BO3 it is more entertaining and will also get the LCS to keep more fans at the facility for longer. LCS needs to focus on being entertaining in the USA more. They already missed their opportunity to provide more in person games for fans which is becoming their downfall.
Really liked this video (and the last about bo3) and I see your point. I can see this going either way but I hope it works.
But I do think (anf hope) what riot will get huge flame for that world cup shit
Same opinion: I prefer BO1 than BO3, I think it was better for the league, but I would be happy to be wrong.
couldnt even gaslight MarkZ
Well being that the league has only 8 teams now and its matches tend to be pretty close now maybe BO3 is a good thing, I'm excited about it
I consider myself an average fan, and I prefer Bo3 just for the sake of more practice for our teams when they go to international events. I am curious as to what you consider an average fan though
I don't really care about viewership, at all. I care about level of competition and player skill, western regions have shown a lack of ability to meaningfully improve for YEARS. And bo3s absolutely will help with that part of why I think eastern regions are so vastly ahead is because we do bo1s instead of bo3s, there's a reason 99% of esports aren't bo1, it doesn't constitute as high a level as competition as bo3's do. I'll gladly eat my words if lcs stays dogshit, but I doubt it will.
Best of 3s era was my all time favorite so I'm hyped! IDGAF about single or double round robin.
best of one just seems so unsatisfying, with 8 teams . guess we will see how this goes!
thanks for what you do!
I just wanted more games than the 14 we got last split. This likely gives us more, but I'm not sure it's exactly what I was hoping for. Still, I'm excited to see how it plays out. I wasn't watching the last time we did bo3, so I'm not sure what to expect.
8 teams in the league one team plays against 7 others so at most 21 games, at least 14, its not a big change and single round robin kind of sucks as teams will be better or worse on different patches, wish we could just copy the LCK's format.
Hey Travis, you said you read every comment so I wanted to say I love all of your content, but also ask a question -- what would you think of a format where a coach from each team is able to be on stage and in game as a spectator?
I think that would be interesting for a show match, but I don't see the game picking it up.
The players can't hear each other. Only the coach can hear and talk to all of them to relay info. :)
I hated single games so fuckin boring and felt like nothin is achieved, just whoever gets lucky in draft and game. BO3 brings better drafts and makes you feel like ur watching something that matters. Can’t wait to start watching LCS again
Hallelujah! I have wanted best of 3s to return forever. And this is from someone who had to suffer through best of 3s for post Breaking Point Team Liquid. (Midlet was pretty funny, though.)
❤❤❤ tell the commish, great idea... Love it🎉🎉
Its kind of sad. I watch the LCK finals and they have a full stadium, multi-million views, a great pre-show, etc...
Then I watch the LCS/LEC and its in a warehouse of 20 people with no pre-show.
It should always be a bo3 this kind of format helps the players get more time playing and practice. look at the format in the recent split all those frauds won bo1s but TL are the kings of bo5s.
Would have preferred best of 2s and for me that two week break killed the momentum for me personally
Love you for informing us so quickly!
best of threes are good until you have the bottom feeder teams play vs eachother and its a 3-4 hour snooze fest.
Use me as a dislike button. Keep up good work Travis
Awww sh** here we go again
Incoming loss in views
A single round robin is fine by me