I will be doing some layman's videos for each machine eventually, but for the BDB: heat up, switch off, drain right tap for 5 seconds (be careful of steam), disconnect red wire and measure ohms between the red probe and the earth probe. If the probe is in excellent condition then you will get open circuit. If they are 4-5M ohms or less then they are too risky imo. This is just a test for the red probe as the blue one on the BDBs is a little more risky to test. it's also difficult to determine what is safe level - as a LOT depends too on what descale solution and quantity you use (hence i'm doing a part2). I know i showed in this video testing them outside the machine, but you should not rely on this method to be accurate. It can be way off what you'll get once the probe is installed and the machine is up to temp. Today in fact, i had one that measured 17 M ohm outside. Once inside it was 3.5M ohm, then when running a descale, it dropped down to about 1M ohm and the boiler wouldn't fill (bes990) so this is a fail.
Thanks a lot for your work on this-it’ll be a lifesaver for many! I see the new Oracle now uses ThermoJet tech instead of a dual boiler. Do you think this change will improve the durability of the latest Oracle, or is the lack of durability in Breville machines more about an overall build quality that’s just not made to last in your experience?
@@BorisDesmond Well, it certainly solves the descale problem we have on these, but the thermojet comes with it's own weaknesses. They have been around for a good few years in many of their other models and i know with the narrow channels on the thermocoil, you need to descale a lot more often - as they block so easily. As for the rest of the machine, only time will tell. At least software issues can be fixed much more easily on them - unlike these. That and the nice screen are the USPs for me.
Yall are probably going to laugh at me for this solution but - it worked. I had my steam entirely fail out after a descale. I’ve encountered valv many times and simply needed to kick out of descale mode, let it heat a bit with the screw open, and blow whatever scale is in the way out the bottom. Pump always seemed to come on at this point. This last time though…. No pump? I even had some liquid slowly flowing out into the drip tray. I figured the descale solution was coating the probes or not allowing it to heat. I unscrewed the steam tip, attached a silicone tube to it, opened the steam valve, and blew into it. Much to my surprise, there was an open pathway through the drain! Closed the drain, placed a big bowl of water on top of the machine, and started a siphon into the steamer. Let it flow for a while and kicked the machine on. Seems like it fixed the problem and I won’t have to send it in! BDB lives 2015-????!!!
Bought a dual boiler at half price. Ran great for four years before the descale notice appeared. .Ran descale using Breville descalar and paid the other half in repair costs,
Really interesting and informative video, thanks! I’ve got a Dual Boiler that I bought 8 months ago (brand new). Did my first descale a couple of days ago, as requested by the machine, following the instructions for my revision to the letter. Upon completion got the three beeps and no steam when trying to use the steam wand. The pump doesn’t engage at all to fill the steam boiler. Brew boiler seems fine, it fills and heats to temp (silently now as opposed to slightly ‘bubbly’ before the descale) and I can pull a shot quite happily. As it’s still well within its 24 month warranty I called the company I purchased from who asked me to call Sage UK. The upshot of half an hour of pretty pointless ‘fault finding’ is that I’m awaiting a call from one of their registered repair centres to initiate a repair. My main concern is that once the machine is repaired, I’m going to need to go through this all over again the next time I descale and it goes belly up…or do I just not descale and risk a much bigger failure somewhere down the line? Although I love my dual boiler, I’m kicking myself a that I didn’t save up a little longer and buy something a bit more robust and professional although I’m sure they have their own problems.
Would you mind sharing the manufacture date from the serial label? I have personally not heard of this happening on version 3 boilers (post mid2022) so would be interested in to know. thanks
Looks like it was manufactured in 2021. Have just done some digging and found a thread that suggests that the black models have been discontinued with the last lot being built in 2021. If only I’d know that before I bought mine. Would have gone for the stainless version and probably got a post 22 production model. I guess I’ll wait and see what happens with subsequent descales once repaired. If it happens again I’ll request either a refund or replacement from the original supplier.
Well put together video thank you. It gave me the courage to descale my 2015 dual boiler for the first time. My probe measured around 100 MΩ and I went for it. While I had the top open I removed each of the probes and cleaned them with a fine scotch-brite pad. They all had a good deal of buildup on them. Not sure if this is beneficial at all. My machine did have the three beeps after descaling and trying to use the steam wand, but it functioned OK, and eventually the three beeps stopped.
Thanks for this video - I have a 920 DB which was working fine until it asked me to descale (I'm in Seattle where water is really good but I figured if the machine asks for it, why not?) - unfortunately I had no idea there even was a risk that this would break my machine. I followed the steps in the manual very dilligently. After I finished, the machine started leaking on the bottom and tripping my electric interruptor. Called support and they said oh no, the manual instructions are incorrect, you need to watch this video instead. I tried that process but I suspected that the damage was already done. Sure enough, machine still leaked. Called them back and Breville wanted $400 for a repair and they would not budge even though I feel they are responsible if their instructions are incorrect. This happened pre-covid - I just have the machine sitting there gathering dust because local repair is impossible because Breville does not sell OEM parts. I refuse to pay the blackmail money that Breville asks - so I've been hoping that some day I could fix it myself. Needless to say, I will never buy another Breville appliance again (I had 3 and now this is the last thing in my household that has not found the trash can).
To be fair, it shouldn't make any difference whether you followed the book or video, as neither method will cause a leak. Their response is incorrect and not helpful at all tho. It sounds to me like it was ready for a service anyway, which is the worst time to descale - as i mention in this video. Take a look across the channel as you might find it's not very difficult to bring it back to life again.
@@BrevTech thanks a lot - I just subscribed and will definitely take a look - considering this machine has never been serviced and it has sat around for so long - are there any specific videos you would recommend I watch first? I'd be happy to try to bring it back to life so I can fell the high of accomplishing something outside of my normal skillset (I'm pretty savvy with computers and electronics, but appliances... Not even sure whether the disassembly of this one has any caveats like hidden lips or torx screws)
@@flaviokaplan5456 I guess the maintenance one first as you'll want to fix the leak before you can test the machine enough to find out what it needs next. There should be some details in there about what o-rings you'll need, or you can buy an o-ring kit from the store linked above. I would normally recommend getting a survival kit as that would likely have all the parts you'll need in, but i'm out of stock until later this week or next.
Hi there, great video as always….very specific question to ask. I bought a second hand 920 6 months ago…and have only used filtered water from a peak water kettle. I was told the machine was descaled before I bought it. (I bought it from a lady who repairs and resells sage/brevilles). The water in my area isn’t very hard…my regular kettle has no sign of lime scale after 6 years of use. Should I be worried and possibly look at descaling…or should I just incorporate some mineral water and see how I get on?
I can't tell you for sure i'm afraid. Water at mine is 60ppm and I see very few machines with any scale. I would just do it whenever you service it (like every 18 months or so). Buy new probes, replace the o-rings on the steam boiler then it should be all set for a descale.
Thank you for that insightful video. Two questions, if I might. 1. Do you know how I find out which Gen my dual boiler is? Or do I just pull out the probes and inspect the material? 2. In your opinion, are Brevilles just less well made and throw up more issues than more reputable makes? They seem to pack a lot of features for the money but at the cost of poorer build quality.
Thanks. 1. Look at the date inside where the water tank goes. Gen 3 came out about august 2022 i think. 2. All machines have their design faults, but the seals on these have certainly caused more problems than most over the years. These were vastly improved in the gen3 versions tho. More features usually means more things to go wrong, but I think if you have a gen 3 then you don't have too much to worry about (as far as i know) But if you have an older version then I suggest you get it serviced every 18-24 months.
I have a 2022 Oracle Touch firmware a1.5. When I did the live debug I got these results. Cold machine: high probe: 1072, low: 36. After heating up: high probe: 198, low: 16. Does this mean my probes are shot or could this be the newer machine with lower default settings?
Maybe. Did the steam pump come on when you switched it on? if so then that's interesting as they may have reduced it. I've not had the latest version in to test. Does your have the gen 3 probes (plastic ones)? These were released post mid 2022
I had some weird behavior, a solenoid valve made very loud noises and it randomly started the steamwand. So I tried to descale and in the process the steam boiler didn‘t fill up. After completion it didn‘t heat up anymore. Sage said roll to left/right/back/front and tilt while heating, and they said it might be due to trapped air, which would make sense as it might have drawn some air from the filter swap a few days before. That worked and I tried descaling again because I thought it didn‘t complete because the steam boiler stayed empty the first time. I tried again and it went exactly like the first time. Then I went to debug menu and checked the values. The high sensor is at around 1100 and the low one at around 2800. The boiler is empty and doesn‘t refill. I still have warranty for 3 weeks and I‘m not sure if I should open it or continue to discuss with customer service.
The first behaviour you mention is very often a leak into the triac board causing solenoids to turn on and off. Is it a touch model? This is exactly what im explaining in the video - the high probe is faulty as 1100 means boiler thinks it is full on the touch - and it's not too far off for the other models. At least the heater probe is 2800 so it's not going to turn on. I would get it serviced for the leak and request new probes to be fitted.
@@BrevTech After some back and forth with the support, I sent them a photo of the debug sreen and they finally let me send it in under warranty. I got it back today and this is on the list (translated): Errors found: -Water level probes leaking/defect -Power electronics defect -Leaking seals -Softwareupdate. Parts used: -Triac PCB SES990 -Display cable SES990 -3x Steam probe with O-rings -6x O-Ring 3.4*1.9mm -Packaging. Aren't there also new and improved probes? Is there a chance I got them? The part number of the 3 probes set is 58-SP0001820.
Ok I checked the part number and there is a store which says it's compatible for SES990 up to version PDC2242. The newer version has the part number SP0102121, but these have PCD2242 as the minimum version. So they're not interchangeable.
@@kulimeya123 The newer probes are only on the more recent model. It has a different steam boiler in with a different design so the probes are not interchangeable im afraid.
@@BrevTech I checked the part numbers online and the parts themselves are pretty affordable. Would you say fixing these problems myself is doable, if they occur again? Selling it seems a pretty bad deal, there are so many listings with „recently refurbished and professionally maintained!“ (of course the same problem I had repaired under warranty) dumping them for around 700€.
@@BrevTech Thanks for your reply. I know that some other machines use the pressure in the steam boiler to force the hot water out - so the water gets replenished more often. Maybe this is why so many people seem to struggle with scaling in the steam boilers with these machines. Do you think it is wise to drain and refill the steam boiler regularly?
@ they do need draining periodically as the water can get smelly otherwise, but it carries a risk of- as I show in the video. I’m planning on doing a less technical video on each model showing how to do this and descale too
Great video thanks. But please could you post clearer step by step instructions on testing the probes in the DB, as you skimmed over this quickly on the video?
@@angusbloomfield1631 Sure, i will be doing some layman's videos for each machine, but for the BDB: heat up, switch off, drain right tap for 5 seconds (be careful of steam), disconnect red wire and measure ohms between the red probe and the earth probe. If the probe is in excellent condition then you will get open circuit. If they are 4-5M ohms or less then they are too risky imo. it's difficult to determine what is safe - as a LOT depends too on what descale solution and quantity you use (hence i'm doing a part2). Thanks for raising this, i'll pin it.
I've just got a used v3 machine to repair for personal use. This has answered a lot of my questions about the descale issue. Are the probes solid metal as far as you can tell? I'm wondering if the surface of the "insulator" is the only part able to absorb/adsorb salts from the descaling solution, or if the metal could somehow be porous or have a coating that erodes and changes the conductivity of the system. Thanks so much for this great analysis
no, the rods are just solid metal. I think its because they are a little permeable. You can rinse the outside, but it also gets inside them. I forgot to show it on the video, but i smashed one apart and found you could measure resistance across the internal side of the ceramic, so it must be the salts from previous descales or water overtime getting in there.
I was just thinking power companies use demineralised water to clean salts from their high voltage insulators. I wonder if soaking in that would have a bigger effect on the probes insulation properties.
good idea. I'm actually trying 3 different chemicals right now in an overnight soak. Vinegar, citric acid and bicarb. I will post back the results. Even if they work, i guess it still remains to be seen how long they will last - if indeed they are permeable. maybe i need to go buy a decent microscope!
I wonder if the reason those probes malfunction, is they just degraded themselves over the years? Or water damage by o-ring leak. Thank you for your video, I thought I knew enough about my BDB. But still have something to learn, I think I got a BMW espresso machine.
ha ha yes, a good analogy. I think age certainly plays a part, but the machine in the video was only 3 years old,. I believe It's a combination of some kind of mineral buildup (inside and outside of the probes) and leaking probes imo.
I have an issue with an Oracle machine 2 months out of warranty. Followed the manufacturers instructions on descaling. The machine even prompts you to do so. It worked fine before the descale nagging. Then doing so creates a fault. Now it wont heat above 70 degrees. I’ve lodged a support ticket. If Sage play up I’m going to be so bold as to take them to small claims court for repair or replacement costs just for the hell of it if need be. It’s clear there is a design or manufacturing fault. Their defence will be interesting reading if it comes to it.
Can we avoid the cost of replacing brand-new probes and instead service our by soaking the probes in water overnight before reinstalling them in clients machines?
No two probes are the same so you would have to test them when you get them back in the machine to see if they are sufficiently above those set points. Some more research needs to be done as i understand a lot of people can't buy new probes easily.
Probably a noob question, but why all the interest in the Steam Boiler? Surely these probes could also go faulty in the Brew Boiler and cause the same issues too.
After pulling a shot on the oracle touch I am getting 10 15ml of water drips from grouphead over the proceeding 30 seconds. Wondering if it’s a solenoid problem. Nothing wrong with screen.
I’ll have to check for buzzing. Wet puck on top yes. I see you have a repair kit . I’ll listen for the buzzing. Thank you for the response. Your videos are great.
Both matter equally. They are both being measured for different reasons and if either isn't reading right then you will have an issue i.e. boiler that overheats or won't heat at all due to the "stop water" signal from the red probe
@@BrevTech I have replicated your test method except that I have a complete boiler rather than section (removed from BDB for rebuild) and I tested dry and wet with tap water rather than descale solution as I just need to know if they need replacing now. I got the following results: Red Dry: 10.67 M ohms, Red Wet: 25.34 M Ohms, Blue Dry :34.4 M Ohms, Blue Wet: OL, and out of interest Earth Dry: OL, and Earth Wet: 22.4 M Ohms. Am I reading this correct that they shouldn't need immediate replacement but would look to do so in future?
@ The red one doesn’t look right as resistance should be lower when wet. You are best to measure them in the machine while it’s still hot. Switch off, open lid and disconnect wire, then measure ohms.
Story time: After owning Brevile Oracle Dual Boiler for 6months, it requested Descale which I did. Guess what? The Selenoid died after finishing Descale. Good thing It was under warranty, it got replaced. few weeks later, passing by Goodguys, I saw Marketing rep getting the new Oracle Jet ready in the showroom. I went to ask her few questions, once of the questions I asked why my selonide died she said that you did descale right? I was like yeah.. and that was the reason. She said descaling is not that good for the machine; I was like, Okay. Then she said, make sure you clean your machine every week and flush it and set your water settings to 1 as you live in Australia and water is clean in general, and use filter water not Tap water. Long story short, don't descale flush your machine weekly and you will never have to descale it.
I have a broken bes980 and having trouble trouble shooting if a descale blew the thermo stat and thermal fuse of the steam boiler and potentially the element or there is also evidence of a leak and corrosion on the boiler and unsure if that then damaged the triac board ( no obvious damage I can see visually ) Symptoms are the Machine makes no attempt for the machine to heat the steam boiler or grouphead boiler (completely room temp) Tried emptying tanks and manually Filling and cleaning probes but no luck
yes triac board for both those, then you likely have a thermal fuse/stat to replace on the steam boiler. Ideally you need a megger to check the boiler to see if its even worth repairing. i have another video about this.
@@BrevTech , Just the O-rings in 2021 when I pulled the steam boiler out to access the thermistor on the bottom of it. What a pickle that was! Thanks to lots of photos pulling it apart, I was able to put it back together with no spare parts. Lol
@BrevTech Not yet... currently out of town on business. Probably wouldn't hurt to order new probably as backupalong with a new airpump... I'm having flashbacks of last time when it went out, and the Mrs. was quite upset.😅😅😅 is that something you sell them on ebay or?
I will be doing some layman's videos for each machine eventually, but for the BDB: heat up, switch off, drain right tap for 5 seconds (be careful of steam), disconnect red wire and measure ohms between the red probe and the earth probe. If the probe is in excellent condition then you will get open circuit. If they are 4-5M ohms or less then they are too risky imo. This is just a test for the red probe as the blue one on the BDBs is a little more risky to test. it's also difficult to determine what is safe level - as a LOT depends too on what descale solution and quantity you use (hence i'm doing a part2). I know i showed in this video testing them outside the machine, but you should not rely on this method to be accurate. It can be way off what you'll get once the probe is installed and the machine is up to temp. Today in fact, i had one that measured 17 M ohm outside. Once inside it was 3.5M ohm, then when running a descale, it dropped down to about 1M ohm and the boiler wouldn't fill (bes990) so this is a fail.
Thanks a lot for your work on this-it’ll be a lifesaver for many! I see the new Oracle now uses ThermoJet tech instead of a dual boiler. Do you think this change will improve the durability of the latest Oracle, or is the lack of durability in Breville machines more about an overall build quality that’s just not made to last in your experience?
@@BorisDesmond Well, it certainly solves the descale problem we have on these, but the thermojet comes with it's own weaknesses. They have been around for a good few years in many of their other models and i know with the narrow channels on the thermocoil, you need to descale a lot more often - as they block so easily. As for the rest of the machine, only time will tell. At least software issues can be fixed much more easily on them - unlike these. That and the nice screen are the USPs for me.
This video is incredible. Well done!!
Yall are probably going to laugh at me for this solution but - it worked.
I had my steam entirely fail out after a descale. I’ve encountered valv many times and simply needed to kick out of descale mode, let it heat a bit with the screw open, and blow whatever scale is in the way out the bottom. Pump always seemed to come on at this point.
This last time though…. No pump? I even had some liquid slowly flowing out into the drip tray. I figured the descale solution was coating the probes or not allowing it to heat. I unscrewed the steam tip, attached a silicone tube to it, opened the steam valve, and blew into it. Much to my surprise, there was an open pathway through the drain! Closed the drain, placed a big bowl of water on top of the machine, and started a siphon into the steamer. Let it flow for a while and kicked the machine on. Seems like it fixed the problem and I won’t have to send it in! BDB lives 2015-????!!!
Fantastic video! Well-researched and presented. And I don't even own a Breville.
Bought a dual boiler at half price. Ran great for four years before the descale notice appeared. .Ran descale using Breville descalar and paid the other half in repair costs,
Really interesting and informative video, thanks!
I’ve got a Dual Boiler that I bought 8 months ago (brand new). Did my first descale a couple of days ago, as requested by the machine, following the instructions for my revision to the letter. Upon completion got the three beeps and no steam when trying to use the steam wand. The pump doesn’t engage at all to fill the steam boiler. Brew boiler seems fine, it fills and heats to temp (silently now as opposed to slightly ‘bubbly’ before the descale) and I can pull a shot quite happily. As it’s still well within its 24 month warranty I called the company I purchased from who asked me to call Sage UK. The upshot of half an hour of pretty pointless ‘fault finding’ is that I’m awaiting a call from one of their registered repair centres to initiate a repair.
My main concern is that once the machine is repaired, I’m going to need to go through this all over again the next time I descale and it goes belly up…or do I just not descale and risk a much bigger failure somewhere down the line?
Although I love my dual boiler, I’m kicking myself a that I didn’t save up a little longer and buy something a bit more robust and professional although I’m sure they have their own problems.
Would you mind sharing the manufacture date from the serial label? I have personally not heard of this happening on version 3 boilers (post mid2022) so would be interested in to know. thanks
Looks like it was manufactured in 2021. Have just done some digging and found a thread that suggests that the black models have been discontinued with the last lot being built in 2021. If only I’d know that before I bought mine. Would have gone for the stainless version and probably got a post 22 production model.
I guess I’ll wait and see what happens with subsequent descales once repaired. If it happens again I’ll request either a refund or replacement from the original supplier.
Well put together video thank you. It gave me the courage to descale my 2015 dual boiler for the first time. My probe measured around 100 MΩ and I went for it. While I had the top open I removed each of the probes and cleaned them with a fine scotch-brite pad. They all had a good deal of buildup on them. Not sure if this is beneficial at all. My machine did have the three beeps after descaling and trying to use the steam wand, but it functioned OK, and eventually the three beeps stopped.
The buildup shouldn’t affect anything too much - other than the boiler would fill a little more to get over the scaled part.
Thanks for this video - I have a 920 DB which was working fine until it asked me to descale (I'm in Seattle where water is really good but I figured if the machine asks for it, why not?) - unfortunately I had no idea there even was a risk that this would break my machine. I followed the steps in the manual very dilligently. After I finished, the machine started leaking on the bottom and tripping my electric interruptor. Called support and they said oh no, the manual instructions are incorrect, you need to watch this video instead. I tried that process but I suspected that the damage was already done. Sure enough, machine still leaked. Called them back and Breville wanted $400 for a repair and they would not budge even though I feel they are responsible if their instructions are incorrect. This happened pre-covid - I just have the machine sitting there gathering dust because local repair is impossible because Breville does not sell OEM parts. I refuse to pay the blackmail money that Breville asks - so I've been hoping that some day I could fix it myself. Needless to say, I will never buy another Breville appliance again (I had 3 and now this is the last thing in my household that has not found the trash can).
To be fair, it shouldn't make any difference whether you followed the book or video, as neither method will cause a leak. Their response is incorrect and not helpful at all tho. It sounds to me like it was ready for a service anyway, which is the worst time to descale - as i mention in this video. Take a look across the channel as you might find it's not very difficult to bring it back to life again.
@@BrevTech thanks a lot - I just subscribed and will definitely take a look - considering this machine has never been serviced and it has sat around for so long - are there any specific videos you would recommend I watch first? I'd be happy to try to bring it back to life so I can fell the high of accomplishing something outside of my normal skillset (I'm pretty savvy with computers and electronics, but appliances... Not even sure whether the disassembly of this one has any caveats like hidden lips or torx screws)
@@flaviokaplan5456 I guess the maintenance one first as you'll want to fix the leak before you can test the machine enough to find out what it needs next. There should be some details in there about what o-rings you'll need, or you can buy an o-ring kit from the store linked above. I would normally recommend getting a survival kit as that would likely have all the parts you'll need in, but i'm out of stock until later this week or next.
Hi there, great video as always….very specific question to ask. I bought a second hand 920 6 months ago…and have only used filtered water from a peak water kettle. I was told the machine was descaled before I bought it. (I bought it from a lady who repairs and resells sage/brevilles).
The water in my area isn’t very hard…my regular kettle has no sign of lime scale after 6 years of use. Should I be worried and possibly look at descaling…or should I just incorporate some mineral water and see how I get on?
I can't tell you for sure i'm afraid. Water at mine is 60ppm and I see very few machines with any scale. I would just do it whenever you service it (like every 18 months or so). Buy new probes, replace the o-rings on the steam boiler then it should be all set for a descale.
Thank you for that insightful video. Two questions, if I might.
1. Do you know how I find out which Gen my dual boiler is? Or do I just pull out the probes and inspect the material?
2. In your opinion, are Brevilles just less well made and throw up more issues than more reputable makes? They seem to pack a lot of features for the money but at the cost of poorer build quality.
Thanks. 1. Look at the date inside where the water tank goes. Gen 3 came out about august 2022 i think. 2. All machines have their design faults, but the seals on these have certainly caused more problems than most over the years. These were vastly improved in the gen3 versions tho. More features usually means more things to go wrong, but I think if you have a gen 3 then you don't have too much to worry about (as far as i know) But if you have an older version then I suggest you get it serviced every 18-24 months.
Thank you so much for that information. Alas, I need to service regularly
I have a 2022 Oracle Touch firmware a1.5. When I did the live debug I got these results. Cold machine: high probe: 1072, low: 36. After heating up: high probe: 198, low: 16. Does this mean my probes are shot or could this be the newer machine with lower default settings?
Maybe. Did the steam pump come on when you switched it on? if so then that's interesting as they may have reduced it. I've not had the latest version in to test. Does your have the gen 3 probes (plastic ones)? These were released post mid 2022
@@BrevTech I’ve not opened it up yet.
I had some weird behavior, a solenoid valve made very loud noises and it randomly started the steamwand. So I tried to descale and in the process the steam boiler didn‘t fill up. After completion it didn‘t heat up anymore. Sage said roll to left/right/back/front and tilt while heating, and they said it might be due to trapped air, which would make sense as it might have drawn some air from the filter swap a few days before. That worked and I tried descaling again because I thought it didn‘t complete because the steam boiler stayed empty the first time. I tried again and it went exactly like the first time. Then I went to debug menu and checked the values. The high sensor is at around 1100 and the low one at around 2800. The boiler is empty and doesn‘t refill. I still have warranty for 3 weeks and I‘m not sure if I should open it or continue to discuss with customer service.
The first behaviour you mention is very often a leak into the triac board causing solenoids to turn on and off. Is it a touch model? This is exactly what im explaining in the video - the high probe is faulty as 1100 means boiler thinks it is full on the touch - and it's not too far off for the other models. At least the heater probe is 2800 so it's not going to turn on. I would get it serviced for the leak and request new probes to be fitted.
@@BrevTech After some back and forth with the support, I sent them a photo of the debug sreen and they finally let me send it in under warranty. I got it back today and this is on the list (translated): Errors found: -Water level probes leaking/defect -Power electronics defect -Leaking seals -Softwareupdate. Parts used: -Triac PCB SES990 -Display cable SES990 -3x Steam probe with O-rings -6x O-Ring 3.4*1.9mm -Packaging. Aren't there also new and improved probes? Is there a chance I got them? The part number of the 3 probes set is 58-SP0001820.
Ok I checked the part number and there is a store which says it's compatible for SES990 up to version PDC2242. The newer version has the part number SP0102121, but these have PCD2242 as the minimum version. So they're not interchangeable.
@@kulimeya123 The newer probes are only on the more recent model. It has a different steam boiler in with a different design so the probes are not interchangeable im afraid.
@@BrevTech I checked the part numbers online and the parts themselves are pretty affordable. Would you say fixing these problems myself is doable, if they occur again? Selling it seems a pretty bad deal, there are so many listings with „recently refurbished and professionally maintained!“ (of course the same problem I had repaired under warranty) dumping them for around 700€.
Can we get V3 probes and install them on an older boiler? And if so, are we less likely to fail during descale?
No they are a different design
Really hope Breville see this and finally cotton on. Brilliant insight. 👍
Hi BrevTech quick question - does the hot water in a BDB come from the Brew boiler or the bottom of the Steam boiler?
Just to clarify - the 'hot water' dispenser.
@@dkedavidbrew boiler. The water in the steam boiler stays in there until you drain it for a descale
@@BrevTech Thanks for your reply. I know that some other machines use the pressure in the steam boiler to force the hot water out - so the water gets replenished more often. Maybe this is why so many people seem to struggle with scaling in the steam boilers with these machines. Do you think it is wise to drain and refill the steam boiler regularly?
@ they do need draining periodically as the water can get smelly otherwise, but it carries a risk of- as I show in the video. I’m planning on doing a less technical video on each model showing how to do this and descale too
Great video thanks. But please could you post clearer step by step instructions on testing the probes in the DB, as you skimmed over this quickly on the video?
E.g. How much do you need to drain the boiler? Where do you connect the meter wires to take the readings?
@@angusbloomfield1631 Sure, i will be doing some layman's videos for each machine, but for the BDB: heat up, switch off, drain right tap for 5 seconds (be careful of steam), disconnect red wire and measure ohms between the red probe and the earth probe. If the probe is in excellent condition then you will get open circuit. If they are 4-5M ohms or less then they are too risky imo. it's difficult to determine what is safe - as a LOT depends too on what descale solution and quantity you use (hence i'm doing a part2). Thanks for raising this, i'll pin it.
Many thanks 🙏
I've just got a used v3 machine to repair for personal use. This has answered a lot of my questions about the descale issue. Are the probes solid metal as far as you can tell? I'm wondering if the surface of the "insulator" is the only part able to absorb/adsorb salts from the descaling solution, or if the metal could somehow be porous or have a coating that erodes and changes the conductivity of the system.
Thanks so much for this great analysis
no, the rods are just solid metal. I think its because they are a little permeable. You can rinse the outside, but it also gets inside them. I forgot to show it on the video, but i smashed one apart and found you could measure resistance across the internal side of the ceramic, so it must be the salts from previous descales or water overtime getting in there.
I was just thinking power companies use demineralised water to clean salts from their high voltage insulators. I wonder if soaking in that would have a bigger effect on the probes insulation properties.
good idea. I'm actually trying 3 different chemicals right now in an overnight soak. Vinegar, citric acid and bicarb. I will post back the results. Even if they work, i guess it still remains to be seen how long they will last - if indeed they are permeable. maybe i need to go buy a decent microscope!
I wonder if the reason those probes malfunction, is they just degraded themselves over the years? Or water damage by o-ring leak. Thank you for your video, I thought I knew enough about my BDB. But still have something to learn, I think I got a BMW espresso machine.
ha ha yes, a good analogy. I think age certainly plays a part, but the machine in the video was only 3 years old,. I believe It's a combination of some kind of mineral buildup (inside and outside of the probes) and leaking probes imo.
I have an issue with an Oracle machine 2 months out of warranty. Followed the manufacturers instructions on descaling. The machine even prompts you to do so. It worked fine before the descale nagging. Then doing so creates a fault. Now it wont heat above 70 degrees. I’ve lodged a support ticket. If Sage play up I’m going to be so bold as to take them to small claims court for repair or replacement costs just for the hell of it if need be. It’s clear there is a design or manufacturing fault. Their defence will be interesting reading if it comes to it.
Good luck!🤞 let me know how it goes
from my previous experience - the fault you have is due to blown thermal fuse .
This is quite a lot of work to get to it and replace it.
Good luck
Can we avoid the cost of replacing brand-new probes and instead service our by soaking the probes in water overnight before reinstalling them in clients machines?
No two probes are the same so you would have to test them when you get them back in the machine to see if they are sufficiently above those set points. Some more research needs to be done as i understand a lot of people can't buy new probes easily.
Probably a noob question, but why all the interest in the Steam Boiler? Surely these probes could also go faulty in the Brew Boiler and cause the same issues too.
They are a different design, plus the coffee boiler doesn’t get so hot and there isn’t steam either
After pulling a shot on the oracle touch I am getting 10 15ml of water drips from grouphead over the proceeding 30 seconds. Wondering if it’s a solenoid problem. Nothing wrong with screen.
are you getting wet pucks too? any buzzing? it does sound like a solenoid problem.
I’ll have to check for buzzing. Wet puck on top yes. I see you have a repair kit . I’ll listen for the buzzing. Thank you for the response. Your videos are great.
Maybe a stupid question but is it just the resistance of the blue probe being measured? Does the red probe matter at all?
Both matter equally. They are both being measured for different reasons and if either isn't reading right then you will have an issue i.e. boiler that overheats or won't heat at all due to the "stop water" signal from the red probe
@@BrevTech thank you, are they both the same resistance on a given machine I.e. 880K for a BDB?
@@daverobinson4558 there are many different firmware versions but from the ones I have tested - other than the touch model, they are the same
@@BrevTech I have replicated your test method except that I have a complete boiler rather than section (removed from BDB for rebuild) and I tested dry and wet with tap water rather than descale solution as I just need to know if they need replacing now. I got the following results:
Red Dry: 10.67 M ohms,
Red Wet: 25.34 M Ohms,
Blue Dry :34.4 M Ohms,
Blue Wet: OL,
and out of interest Earth Dry: OL,
and Earth Wet: 22.4 M Ohms.
Am I reading this correct that they shouldn't need immediate replacement but would look to do so in future?
@ The red one doesn’t look right as resistance should be lower when wet. You are best to measure them in the machine while it’s still hot. Switch off, open lid and disconnect wire, then measure ohms.
Story time:
After owning Brevile Oracle Dual Boiler for 6months, it requested Descale which I did. Guess what? The Selenoid died after finishing Descale.
Good thing It was under warranty, it got replaced.
few weeks later, passing by Goodguys, I saw Marketing rep getting the new Oracle Jet ready in the showroom.
I went to ask her few questions, once of the questions I asked why my selonide died she said that you did descale right? I was like yeah.. and that was the reason.
She said descaling is not that good for the machine; I was like, Okay. Then she said, make sure you clean your machine every week and flush it and set your water settings to 1 as you live in Australia and water is clean in general, and use filter water not Tap water.
Long story short, don't descale flush your machine weekly and you will never have to descale it.
I have a broken bes980 and having trouble trouble shooting if a descale blew the thermo stat and thermal fuse of the steam boiler and potentially the element or there is also evidence of a leak and corrosion on the boiler and unsure if that then damaged the triac board ( no obvious damage I can see visually )
Symptoms are the Machine makes no attempt for the machine to heat the steam boiler or grouphead boiler (completely room temp)
Tried emptying tanks and manually
Filling and cleaning probes but no luck
yes triac board for both those, then you likely have a thermal fuse/stat to replace on the steam boiler. Ideally you need a megger to check the boiler to see if its even worth repairing. i have another video about this.
Thanks appreciate the response
🙏🙏🙏
I bought my BES980XL back in 2014 and have only had the thermistor fail on the steamer side... My be just lucky?
10yrs? Surely you’ve changed orings and air pump by now?
@@BrevTech , Just the O-rings in 2021 when I pulled the steam boiler out to access the thermistor on the bottom of it. What a pickle that was! Thanks to lots of photos pulling it apart, I was able to put it back together with no spare parts. Lol
Did you ever descale the machine in the 10 years you have it?
@@richardharris5819 it’s likely ready for new orings again. Did you test your probes yet? I’d be interested to know the AD reading in those
@BrevTech Not yet... currently out of town on business. Probably wouldn't hurt to order new probably as backupalong with a new airpump... I'm having flashbacks of last time when it went out, and the Mrs. was quite upset.😅😅😅 is that something you sell them on ebay or?
Descale killed my last Breville. Unlikely to ever do it on my current one
the opinion of many!