I'm excited for the KOPI Deva grinder, which is a wireless grinder but can be plugged in. It's coming probably end of 2023. I Love your channel and can't wait to see the products you mentioned reviewed :)
I love the fact that with espresso, and coffee in general, you can be meticulous (no pun intended) and precise down to tenths of a gram or extraction percentages, but you can also just eyeball your grind size and send it with a lever machine too. So nice to see everyone enjoying coffee in all the ways they make it and watching home brewing grow year by year. 2023 is definitely exciting with all these concepts becoming more popular and available to us.
The meticulous is an insanely creative machine. If they manage to be in the $1.2k range they will be a big success. I don't drink espresso but I am rooting for them, I think it could become the next new iconic coffee maker.
Regarding Dual burr grinders, there's a few electric grinders that utilizing a similar system, I'm sure some people have also mentioned some in the comments, and you probably do know of some of them. Kafatek Monolith Conical MC4/MC5 (and I think MC3?) have a smaller conical pre-breaker burr and then a main finishing conical burr, just like the Momentem, and then there's hybrid DRM burrs like in the Versalab M4 (and similar grinders that were kinda offshoots of that design) where they have a conical like burr ontop of a flat burr. And I'm not sure if this counts but there's some grinders that have a vertically mounted burr so the beans aren't gravity fed, but fed by an auger connected to the burrs, which grabs and feeds the coffee, that may also work as pre-crusher, and one other benefit of that is that the feed rate is maintained and you don't end up with a weight difference at the start vs end of grinding like a traditional grinder, which could influence grind consistency.
Good picks! I am most curious about the espresso grinder from Fellow. I find it hard to believe they can make a very good grinder for such a low price point, but I sure hope that they can. Given their reputation so far, it's bound to look great and probably at least be decent.
Can't wait to see the Argos! I almost pre-ordered one in Feb 2022 when they were due to ship that April, but the two month wait seemed too long lol😂 Still, I'm excited to see what they're like when people get them
I have an Argos on order. I hope the dual temperature control works out. They are measuring the temp of the group head and then set the temp of the boiler accordingly so the wanted brew temp is achieved. Also the app can receive data from the optional pressure transducer. Not only can one record a flow profile (with data from an Acadia scale), but also a pressure profile with data from the Bluetooth pressure gauge. So one can sort of mimic a decent ... but it's optional. If you don't want to use the app you can pull a shot La Pavoni style (but with more stable temperature). I'm also curious how the Meticulous is gonna turn out.
You'd be surprised how different each of those baskets are. I have the Unifilter, Unibasket, Wafo Blend, and Wafo Classic and they're... All vastly different. We're talking about it a lot on the Espresso Aficionados discord.
I haven't tried a dual burr hand grinder myself, but I was wondering if it does actually make it easier, harder or the same to grind. I'd think it would require the same energy, if you think about it, at first it might be easier to grind since you're only coarse for the pre-breaker top burr, then coffee gets to the 2nd main burr, now you're grinding /powering both the Top burr and the main burr at the same time, so I'd imagine that would be more difficult or the same as with one single burr. Towards the end you'll only be using the main burr, and then it would be easier again.
Any thoughts on the rumored DF64 with adjustable RPM? Or the similar Timemore flat burr grinder? I’m hoping to buy an “affordable” flat burr grinder that can do both brew and espresso - but I’m holding off on the DF64 because I want to get one with adjustable RPMs (to future proof as much as possible). Let me know your thoughts. Thank you!
I got my Weber unibasket for a few days now and I am a bit unsure about it. It only comes in a basket size that is made for pretty high doses, so you need to use a puck screen for 18-20g by default to maintain headspace and puck resistance. As I usually use a lower dose for my light roasted beans, this means that I need to use two puck screens stacked on top of the grinds for lower doses, which is kinda weird. On the other hand, I feel that every basket should be like it and it somehow feels just right. I love the build quality and material and the straight edges of the inside. But the outside and bottom of the basket simply sucks as the "espresso rain" sprinkles my whole kitchen with coffee. They could easily fix that by making the outside of the baskets bottom convex with a slightly thicker material in the middle that gets thinner on the edges, so that it is straight inside but slightly curved outside which should result in a single stream during extraction. Maybe that is my new business idea, lol. But currently I need to use a spouted portafilter with it as even slow extractions make a mess.
Thank you for sharing. Currently I am enjoying a sweet 16 grs dose in the Rancilio 16-17 grs with filters and puck screen, jam packed basket myself. I’m a dry puck kind, no pun intended🤔
Looking forward to my xBloom shipping out soon, love the curated roaster recipe concept but very intrigued by the better manual concepts. Pretty disappointed in how difficult the first Flair has been to be consistent.
the pre-heating on the meticulous is much, much more robust than the flair58. it's really quite cool how they've done the heating and it's not like the flair58 had huge temp stability problems though it obviously isn't perfect.
For hand grinding I think you missed Pietro the first true flat burr hand grinder available for the masses and not just a concept grinder. I really consider to back the meticulous Also Subminimal launch a KS of a automatic apparently affordable milk foamer… could be interesting for the flair etc. users. I do think there loads of interesting projects out there
Synesso ES1 is another interesting machine that is going to be released in 2023, but it's going to be a machine that most people wouldn't be able to afford.
Hmm the Odyssey Argos is interesting because you get the quality of a high-end lever machine with the small footprint (15.2 cm wide) of a DeLonghi Dedica (14.9 cm wide).
Did you see that St. Anthony Industries has what appears to be a whole portafilter and basket that looks like it's meant to compete with Weber Workshops Unifilter for under $100?
@@LifestyleLab_Crap, i think i may be mistaken. I just took another look at it. In one picture the basket looks like it has straight sides with holes from edge to edge, but in another picture it just looks like a standard 58mm basket.
I don't think there's a way to improve this list. Just perfect! I hope you can get hold of at least some these products to review. I guess the Fellow Opus shouldn't be too difficult to acquire. I'd like to see a comparison between it and the new Baratza Encore ESP. Maybe also in comparison with some "veteran" grinders in the same category, like the Breville BCG820 and Baratza Sette 30. The Opus and ESP are slightly less expensive, but they don't seem to be optimal for single-dosing (no blower) or on-demand grinding (no timer). Is the saving worth these compromises?
A bellows doesn't always make a machine better, sometimes it's worse if it relies on the bellows to blow out the retention. Better to have a low retention design in the first place. A bellows is an extra step and often blows out fines and stuff that might sit in crevices of a chute somewhere but not otherwise affect anything.
Don't know why they don't design the Meticulous as a modular device with option for either just a heated group and pour in hot water or a PID regulated boiler + heated group head pathway (like the Breville Dual Boiler. More products need to be modular to provide options, upgrade paths.
Dual stage grinding is actually not new, many commercial grinders use a pre-breaker already, including the famous ek43. I could be wrong on who was technically first, but the first dual conical design with a pre breaker burr I believe was the Kafatek mc4. Also I believe meticulous is being sued for the brew by weight feature, look into it.
Not saying it’s new, just would like to see more of it on more attainable price points :) Not sure how you can sue for a scale in a machine… many commercial machines have gravimetric dosing
Extremely intrigued by the Opus. Fellow is a reputable company and able to offer a grinder at such a low price makes me scratch my head. We know that (small) conical burrs are cheaper than flat. Maybe it has little power and slower RPM and more prone to chocking. I’m really looking forward to your review and identifying possible quirks. Otherwise this might be the winner of 2023 in the entry level espresso grinders.
One of the employees at Fellow has been super responsive about the Opus on reddit. They claim the grinder is using a high quality motor that has never choked during testing. I think the big question is the grind steps. They claim it can do everything from espresso to French press, so that means the steps have to be pretty big to make it work.
Do you find there to be a noticeable difference in texture between your flair and the decent? Wondering if the meticulous will be able to close that gap that I’ve seen some reviews mention about texture being a little thin on the decent.
Personally never had an issue with texture on the decent, you can make straight syrup with that thing if you want to. But no doubt it will be different, so I guess we’ll see!
@@LifestyleLab_ as someone patiently waiting to see how the current home espresso machine revolution pans out, I’m very excited to see what this year brings! If meticulous works out a viable milk steaming add-on then that is going to make the choice between itself and the decent very difficult. Can’t wait for you to receive one and hopefully hear your thoughts, impressions and comparison!
So hard for me to pick Odyssey Espresso Argos or the Meticulous Home. The latter would be my go to if I didn't need to steam milk for other people as I drink espressos. However the negative of the Argos is I would want it in the manual mode however that requires my wife to be open to learning how to pull manual shots 🤣.
@@LifestyleLab_ yeah that is definitely what I was hoping for, I was going to buy the Decent and then saw the Meticulous and it stopped me dead in my tracks because the user experience seems very well thought out. Plus there is also the small Londinium lever machine in development (the R24 is too huge for my kitchen).
From the feedback I’ve gotten from those who own it, I’m not sure it’s great value for money, but definitely a cool collaboration between two premium brands
The Argos looks really cool, but as soon as I see "smart" features, I just groan. There goes an extra $250 for features that I don't want or need :( I really hate that trend, give me the solid hardware and skip the smart crap.
the fellow grinder looks interesting, its just a grinder, this is not rocket science, so having better priced options is always better. many of the expensive reddit karma options simply exploit the affirmation people need to have by telling people they own one. as for the meticulous, its a kickstarter and I shy away from those.
In my opinion, the price of odysseyespresso is totally not worth it (850 CAD PLUS TAX). I can find similar products in the market which are so much cheap than it. But the size of odysseyespresso is very competitive .
What are you most excited for on this list?
Did I miss anything???
The xBloom and that upcoming electric grinder from Timemore looks promising too.
I'm excited for the KOPI Deva grinder, which is a wireless grinder but can be plugged in. It's coming probably end of 2023. I Love your channel and can't wait to see the products you mentioned reviewed :)
I am looking forward to the Barista Hustle AutoComb, but suspect it's not going to be priced for the home barista-but you never know!
The xBloom and TK-02 for us automatic folks!
Yes the TK-02 seems to have some good changes from the TK-01 I’ve tried. Could be a cool super auto
I love the fact that with espresso, and coffee in general, you can be meticulous (no pun intended) and precise down to tenths of a gram or extraction percentages, but you can also just eyeball your grind size and send it with a lever machine too. So nice to see everyone enjoying coffee in all the ways they make it and watching home brewing grow year by year. 2023 is definitely exciting with all these concepts becoming more popular and available to us.
Very well said!
Underrated comment. Great perspective ser
Wow! Those are exciting times ahead. I am looking forward to the Meticulous and the Fellow!
The meticulous is an insanely creative machine. If they manage to be in the $1.2k range they will be a big success. I don't drink espresso but I am rooting for them, I think it could become the next new iconic coffee maker.
Coming in at $1500 I believe. Still VERY reasonable for what it’s offering in my opinion
Exciting stuff, looking forward to your reviews of everything single one, show time.
I’m pretty excited by the Londinium Vectis too
Regarding Dual burr grinders, there's a few electric grinders that utilizing a similar system, I'm sure some people have also mentioned some in the comments, and you probably do know of some of them.
Kafatek Monolith Conical MC4/MC5 (and I think MC3?) have a smaller conical pre-breaker burr and then a main finishing conical burr, just like the Momentem, and then there's hybrid DRM burrs like in the Versalab M4 (and similar grinders that were kinda offshoots of that design) where they have a conical like burr ontop of a flat burr.
And I'm not sure if this counts but there's some grinders that have a vertically mounted burr so the beans aren't gravity fed, but fed by an auger connected to the burrs, which grabs and feeds the coffee, that may also work as pre-crusher, and one other benefit of that is that the feed rate is maintained and you don't end up with a weight difference at the start vs end of grinding like a traditional grinder, which could influence grind consistency.
The Meticulous Home is very exciting for me as well.
Good picks! I am most curious about the espresso grinder from Fellow. I find it hard to believe they can make a very good grinder for such a low price point, but I sure hope that they can. Given their reputation so far, it's bound to look great and probably at least be decent.
Can't wait to see the Argos! I almost pre-ordered one in Feb 2022 when they were due to ship that April, but the two month wait seemed too long lol😂 Still, I'm excited to see what they're like when people get them
seems more like vaporware than an actual product at this point.
I have an Argos on order.
I hope the dual temperature control works out. They are measuring the temp of the group head and then set the temp of the boiler accordingly so the wanted brew temp is achieved.
Also the app can receive data from the optional pressure transducer. Not only can one record a flow profile (with data from an Acadia scale), but also a pressure profile with data from the Bluetooth pressure gauge. So one can sort of mimic a decent ... but it's optional. If you don't want to use the app you can pull a shot La Pavoni style (but with more stable temperature).
I'm also curious how the Meticulous is gonna turn out.
The Argos looks like a game changer. Very serious design, concept and from Denver! Thanks for the introduction to these machines!
Great list! I’m excited to see you review these!
Love videos like this to find out about up and comers.
Ross has dropped a ton of pictures of production parts that are arriving recently, the Argos really is coming together
I can't wait for the Odyssey Argos. The price, the functionality...I'm only waiting to hear if it's reliable from reviewers after a while.
As for 2023 entries, how about some coverage of the Synesso ES-1?
I'm interested in the Argos lever machine.
You'd be surprised how different each of those baskets are. I have the Unifilter, Unibasket, Wafo Blend, and Wafo Classic and they're... All vastly different.
We're talking about it a lot on the Espresso Aficionados discord.
I completely agree! There’s huge merit in exploring that technology more. Very cool stuff
@@LifestyleLab_ then you might want to keep an eye out this year. Some people are working on things.
Great list! This year, I'm working on my pourover know-how, but that Meticulous machine has caught my eye.
I'm stoked for the ACS Vostok!! Can't wait for that release
Lance just did a great video. What a beast of a machine!
Can't wait
I haven't tried a dual burr hand grinder myself, but I was wondering if it does actually make it easier, harder or the same to grind. I'd think it would require the same energy, if you think about it, at first it might be easier to grind since you're only coarse for the pre-breaker top burr, then coffee gets to the 2nd main burr, now you're grinding /powering both the Top burr and the main burr at the same time, so I'd imagine that would be more difficult or the same as with one single burr. Towards the end you'll only be using the main burr, and then it would be easier again.
It seems a little counter intuitive for the reasons you stated, but dual burr grinders are much easier to turn by hand. And faster grinding generally
How about the Comandante C60 Baracuda.. I think we have been waiting for slightly larger burrs on handgrinders for a while
The argos i really look forward to seeing how good it will be if its good it might be exactly what i need
Solid list!
Any thoughts on the rumored DF64 with adjustable RPM? Or the similar Timemore flat burr grinder? I’m hoping to buy an “affordable” flat burr grinder that can do both brew and espresso - but I’m holding off on the DF64 because I want to get one with adjustable RPMs (to future proof as much as possible). Let me know your thoughts. Thank you!
All of those are exciting
I got my Weber unibasket for a few days now and I am a bit unsure about it. It only comes in a basket size that is made for pretty high doses, so you need to use a puck screen for 18-20g by default to maintain headspace and puck resistance. As I usually use a lower dose for my light roasted beans, this means that I need to use two puck screens stacked on top of the grinds for lower doses, which is kinda weird. On the other hand, I feel that every basket should be like it and it somehow feels just right. I love the build quality and material and the straight edges of the inside. But the outside and bottom of the basket simply sucks as the "espresso rain" sprinkles my whole kitchen with coffee. They could easily fix that by making the outside of the baskets bottom convex with a slightly thicker material in the middle that gets thinner on the edges, so that it is straight inside but slightly curved outside which should result in a single stream during extraction. Maybe that is my new business idea, lol. But currently I need to use a spouted portafilter with it as even slow extractions make a mess.
Thank you for sharing. Currently I am enjoying a sweet 16 grs dose in the Rancilio 16-17 grs with filters and puck screen, jam packed basket myself. I’m a dry puck kind, no pun intended🤔
Meticulous is interesting, but for non creators its a wait and see imo
Looking forward to my xBloom shipping out soon, love the curated roaster recipe concept but very intrigued by the better manual concepts. Pretty disappointed in how difficult the first Flair has been to be consistent.
I think I'll be a pre order opus costumer
A fellow espresso grinder at this price is almost a sure bet
the pre-heating on the meticulous is much, much more robust than the flair58. it's really quite cool how they've done the heating and it's not like the flair58 had huge temp stability problems though it obviously isn't perfect.
Is that a g shock you’re wearing. Is so which model
The Argos is a "shot of reality" for the Olympia Cremina 3700 price tag.(I own a Cremina)
For hand grinding I think you missed Pietro the first true flat burr hand grinder available for the masses and not just a concept grinder.
I really consider to back the meticulous
Also Subminimal launch a KS of a automatic apparently affordable milk foamer… could be interesting for the flair etc. users.
I do think there loads of interesting projects out there
Great idea for video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I ordered argos
Whats your think of vbm digital
You should have a look at the ‚Maro Model 1‘ from Germany.
Definitely looks like another interesting Kickstarter!
Synesso ES1 is another interesting machine that is going to be released in 2023, but it's going to be a machine that most people wouldn't be able to afford.
"dual stag" grinding is not new, see the pre-breaker in Bentwood Vertical 63. The DRM burrs used in versalab and honne grinders also.
Hmm the Odyssey Argos is interesting because you get the quality of a high-end lever machine with the small footprint (15.2 cm wide) of a DeLonghi Dedica (14.9 cm wide).
Absolutely wild!
Want the Odyssey so badly, im out here in denver where they are based and wanna see if I can skip the pre order line 😂
Did you see that St. Anthony Industries has what appears to be a whole portafilter and basket that looks like it's meant to compete with Weber Workshops Unifilter for under $100?
I did not see that! Will have to take a look
@@LifestyleLab_Crap, i think i may be mistaken. I just took another look at it. In one picture the basket looks like it has straight sides with holes from edge to edge, but in another picture it just looks like a standard 58mm basket.
I don't think there's a way to improve this list. Just perfect! I hope you can get hold of at least some these products to review.
I guess the Fellow Opus shouldn't be too difficult to acquire. I'd like to see a comparison between it and the new Baratza Encore ESP. Maybe also in comparison with some "veteran" grinders in the same category, like the Breville BCG820 and Baratza Sette 30. The Opus and ESP are slightly less expensive, but they don't seem to be optimal for single-dosing (no blower) or on-demand grinding (no timer). Is the saving worth these compromises?
A bellows doesn't always make a machine better, sometimes it's worse if it relies on the bellows to blow out the retention. Better to have a low retention design in the first place. A bellows is an extra step and often blows out fines and stuff that might sit in crevices of a chute somewhere but not otherwise affect anything.
Don't know why they don't design the Meticulous as a modular device with option for either just a heated group and pour in hot water or a PID regulated boiler + heated group head pathway (like the Breville Dual Boiler. More products need to be modular to provide options, upgrade paths.
Dual stage grinding is actually not new, many commercial grinders use a pre-breaker already, including the famous ek43. I could be wrong on who was technically first, but the first dual conical design with a pre breaker burr I believe was the Kafatek mc4.
Also I believe meticulous is being sued for the brew by weight feature, look into it.
Not saying it’s new, just would like to see more of it on more attainable price points :)
Not sure how you can sue for a scale in a machine… many commercial machines have gravimetric dosing
Extremely intrigued by the Opus. Fellow is a reputable company and able to offer a grinder at such a low price makes me scratch my head. We know that (small) conical burrs are cheaper than flat. Maybe it has little power and slower RPM and more prone to chocking. I’m really looking forward to your review and identifying possible quirks. Otherwise this might be the winner of 2023 in the entry level espresso grinders.
One of the employees at Fellow has been super responsive about the Opus on reddit. They claim the grinder is using a high quality motor that has never choked during testing. I think the big question is the grind steps. They claim it can do everything from espresso to French press, so that means the steps have to be pretty big to make it work.
Production xBloom machines should be coming this year?
That too!
Very interested to see if that company actually gets off the ground
Did you hear anything about ssp conical burrs and df64S please 🙏
I’m really looking forward to Barista hustles auto comb.
Ouu 👀
How do I steam milk with the meticulous machine?
With a bellman
Do you find there to be a noticeable difference in texture between your flair and the decent? Wondering if the meticulous will be able to close that gap that I’ve seen some reviews mention about texture being a little thin on the decent.
Personally never had an issue with texture on the decent, you can make straight syrup with that thing if you want to. But no doubt it will be different, so I guess we’ll see!
@@LifestyleLab_ as someone patiently waiting to see how the current home espresso machine revolution pans out, I’m very excited to see what this year brings! If meticulous works out a viable milk steaming add-on then that is going to make the choice between itself and the decent very difficult. Can’t wait for you to receive one and hopefully hear your thoughts, impressions and comparison!
Could be my list 😅
Strange that the timemore sculptor 078 grinder is not on the list
Definitely should have been! Very intriguing
So hard for me to pick Odyssey Espresso Argos or the Meticulous Home.
The latter would be my go to if I didn't need to steam milk for other people as I drink espressos.
However the negative of the Argos is I would want it in the manual mode however that requires my wife to be open to learning how to pull manual shots 🤣.
Too many decision! 🤯
Maybe something will come from the reviews that will tip you one way over the other
@@LifestyleLab_ yeah that is definitely what I was hoping for, I was going to buy the Decent and then saw the Meticulous and it stopped me dead in my tracks because the user experience seems very well thought out.
Plus there is also the small Londinium lever machine in development (the R24 is too huge for my kitchen).
Doesn’t Kafatek make a high end (very expensive) dual grinder? Or someone in that league.
Very expensive and Kafatek go hand-in-hand, haha
Acaia’s upcoming Orbit grinder is on my list. Looks really promising
From the feedback I’ve gotten from those who own it, I’m not sure it’s great value for money, but definitely a cool collaboration between two premium brands
The Argos will probably be 2024 because of supply chain issues.
I’m the first comment!!!
pretty sure good/more powerful electric motors are worlds cheaper than good burr sets.
The Argos looks really cool, but as soon as I see "smart" features, I just groan. There goes an extra $250 for features that I don't want or need :( I really hate that trend, give me the solid hardware and skip the smart crap.
the fellow grinder looks interesting, its just a grinder, this is not rocket science, so having better priced options is always better. many of the expensive reddit karma options simply exploit the affirmation people need to have by telling people they own one.
as for the meticulous, its a kickstarter and I shy away from those.
I'm not impressed with looks, but am very interested the functional use instead.
As much as I tried to stay focused on the product and your descriptions your waving arms were constant distractions.
In my opinion, the price of odysseyespresso is totally not worth it (850 CAD PLUS TAX). I can find similar products in the market which are so much cheap than it. But the size of odysseyespresso is very competitive .
is not even 850 CAD, is 850 USD plus tax😓