Across the Spiderverse is Amazing says 1 Billionth person
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2023
- This video's content falls under critical or film studies. Predominantly containing discussions, deliberations, examinations, essays and analyses of the thematic integrity of works of visual artistic expression by ways of some subpar comedy.
-----
/ cellspex
ko-fi.com/cellspex
/ cellspex9
/ cellspex
www.tumblr.com/blog/cellspex 
Кино
I personally like the idea that Miguel was trying to help Miles "see reason" by explaining everything to him, since he's seemingly always been able to do that for other spider-people without getting much pushback
It also falls more in line with his typical characterization, willing to be upfront and even empathetic, but is brutal to his enemies
Agreed. Honestly it's kinda weird to me that people think he would just lie. Like bro, for all his flaws he's not _evil._ He still thinks he's doing the right thing in his mind and he's the leader of an entire society of Spidermen, one of the most universally good heros. The moment he has to start lying to accomplish his goals is when him and everyone around him would need to question if they're really the good guys here.
He even tried to level with Miles, telling him that he understands not wanting to sacrifice one over the other. Before that, he also apologized after telling Miles his dad dies in two days; he’s *not* happy with how all Spiders have to suffer as part of the canon, but it’s inevitable.
Considering all the theories and the fact that he is the antagonist there's gonna be a twist in his words
@@elknothin3403 Yeah, that’s just how he’s set up. Something’ll come up to show us he’s ultimately in the wrong because Miles is the protagonist, not him.
Also to note Miguel seems stressed 24/7 so that amount of anger stress and angst will definitely make bad and stupid decisions
Miguel is honest to a fault, he's no liar.
Miguel: I respect every single spider man
Miles: does that include me?
Miguel: NO! YOU’RE BLACK-
Jokes aside, I’d say to be fair his second in command, Jessica, is also black, and being Latino Miguel is almost certainly part black.
@@silashurd3597RAAHHHHHH
Miguel is right about the existence of canon... but I do not think he has FULLY grasped the nature of canon by himself.
@@silashurd3597 Miles: And YOU'RE MIXED RACE! See? I can be an asshole too!
I really liked Miguel as a villain. I’ve seen so many stories with ‘ends justify means’/utilitarian bad guys yet he feels fresher somehow. I think they really captured the desperation of how he feels which makes him more sympathetic than most while you still want him to be wrong.
Slight correction Miguel wasn’t a villain at all. He was an antagonist. But he doesn’t actually do anything evil or morally wrong the entire movie. Notice how he didn’t even get mad until Miles went on a warpath to (from Miguel’s POV) destroy an entire universe. Miles was essentially about to be literally a billion times worse then Hitler so his anger was kinda justified.
Miguel being correct would also be the better ending as it would force Miles to make hard choices, rather than look for the easy way out.
@@uanime1 Agreed.
@@uanime1 you could see it that way. Sometimes there is now ay to get what you want and you only have a choice between two bad options. Alternatively, there could be a message along the lines of trying your utmost to do what’s right in light of impossible odds being the hard choice and letting someone die to save more people because you don’t want to risk trying otherwise being the easy way out. I’m sympathetic to both arguments and I definitely want to see how it pans out.
@@thedukeofchutney468Screaming at a 15 year old that he's a mistake that was never supposed to exist an how he doesn't belong here, is very much, morraly wrong.
I always interpreted that the reason Miguel told Miles was because, despite his hatred for what Miles is, he's still a decent enough person to be honest to a kid about the fate of his family.
I honestly don’t think he hates miles. Notice how he didn’t get mad until Miles went on a warpath to (from Miguel’s POV) destroy an entire universe. Miles was essentially honing to be a billion times worse then Hitler so his anger was kinda justified.
@@thedukeofchutney468 That's why I said "what Miles is" not Miles himself. Clearly his only initial problems are that Miles suddenly showed up out of nowhere and is also an anomaly among the Spiderverse.
You’re right about that
@@thedukeofchutney468Didn't he loose his mind and throw a garbage can at this nice kid who doesn't know anything about whats going on. He was angry and unhinged with Miles from the beginning.
@@SlyMagma someone who had already frustrated you once going out again to cause another anomaly and then acting like nothing bad happened (even though miles obviously didnt realize) would probably make anyone mad
The perfect sequel to a near flawless movie. The animation, characters, and action are even more incredible this time around. I especially love how well Miguel as an antagonist represents the fundamental flaw of the Spider Society’s doctrine: that Spider-People are defined by their trauma and that their trauma is essential.
Very true.
He's an interesting character, that's for sure.
I feel like I have heard this exact comment before.
@@jacksondavies3595Saaaaaaaame
@@jacksondavies3595Except for me it's seen instead of heard
I loved the prologue with Gwen as it really showcased her character and the stuff with her father was heartbreaking but it was nice to see it get better at the end. I had heard about its cliffhanger ending and when it happened, I was legit shocked how it ended. I was a little disappointed that Spider-Noir and Spider-Ham only had brief cameos but I imagine it’s because they’ll have bigger roles in Beyond whenever it comes out.
everyone is commenting on how scarlet spider feels like across version of spider noir, so many are waiting to see how they will interact with each other. i genuinely think they will fight. AND IT SHALL BE GLORIOUS...
i did not know how it was gonna end and if i did i may not have watched it and waited till the third came out im semi disappointed but at least it was good i guess
aw that sucks. me and my friend were so shocked at the cliffhanger lol my friend was like “how long is this movie???” and i knew it was gonna end on a cliffhanger bc of the tension and how long it had been going lol. but it was so funny bc the theatre screamed out “WHAT??? NO!!!!”. one of the best movie theatre experiences i’ve ever had.
I really felt how betrayed Miles felt by his friends. He wanted to break into multiversal travel as a career so he could see his pals again, and it turns out, they already could do it with someone else's help, and avoided visiting him. Now he's just turning down their help, like in the chase scene. I'm very interested to see how they handle the reunion; that's gonna be personally therapeutic for me. I'm also excited to see more of Miles 42.
I still don't get why they never visited him
Isn't everyone gonna be
emotionally scarred?
@@indiesunflowersThey were followinfmg Miguel's orders without a second thought. Like puppets in a string.
@@indiesunflowers I think there's the element of awkwardness, like Gwen said, she wasn't sure how to tell him about the fact he was the original anomaly and whatever. So for them to visit, they'd constantly be lying by omission, keeping secrets. And it was against Miguel's orders.
@@indiesunflowers but Gwen did. they probably didnt want to send her there, but she swore to them that she would do everything. and yet... at the first chance, she went to miles first, and stayed with him up until the moment she was alerted shit went south.
The reason why Spectacular Spidermand line “we know it’s hard but it’s the truth Miles” hits all the more harder is because we left the show with him having a really strong bond with Captain Stacey as him affirmative ally but after the show ended, we now know that he was incapable of saving his life. A lot of people say he would be reluctant to join but even his voice actor Josh Keaton confirms that this society and rules about cannon events have him the comfort he needed to keep going. He’s being gaslight obviously but it’s shocking seeing this version of a character so pure at hard be turned to a strict group of people who follow death of close ones as a rule rather than trauma
He was vulnerable.
@@daelen.cclark exactly that’s the heartbreaking part
Thanks a lot Disney for cancelling that show
Miguel is not a villian thats why he tells him the truth
Antagonist
I feel as if Miguel also tries to fill the spiderverse with spider people who will agree with him about how things should be done giving him a sort of echo chamber
Exactly. He probably thought he could reason with miles since the situation seems like such a no brainer to him. I mean why risk the possibility of billions of people dying just to save one person who would also die in that possibility. He also knew that he could just trap him if he didn’t listen.
The sad part is that all the captains die due to in universe reasons, not our of universe reasons.
Ive always seen atsv as having both an antagonist and a villain, Miguel and Spot respectively
What do you think of the fact that technically Miguel is an anomaly himself? He has none of the original Spiderman backstory that is canon about his character in the comics.
Also, thoughts on The Spot? Like… both goofy & serious all at once is just terrifyingly epic.
Love how both Spot and Hobie are introduced in humous 'lol don't take me that serious' ways until suddenly 'I'm the real deal, try to F with me"
Miguel not having a "traditional" Spider-Man origin story pokes holes in his theory over "canon events" and that all Spider-People must go through a beat-by-beat shared history. I find it conspicuous that the film states his character and motivations at the beginning but quickly glossed over his origin when every significant Spider-Person had theirs exposited. The film also tips its hand to this by calling attention to Miguel being the most unusual compared to the other Spider-People (he has claws, red eyes and fangs that become prominent when angry in addition to vampiric and feral-like behavior, seemingly needing to take a serum to reduce these traits). If anything, the series seems gearing up to call Miguel a hypocrite whenever Sony releases the third movie.
@@NobodyC13 Also, don't forget that Miguel did the very same thing that the villain of the first movie tried to do. Create a dimension traveling machine so he could be happy with his lost family.
It's entirely possible that he's not even a Spiderman, but a Kingpin. A Kingpin who's defeated the superheroes in his original universe and found a way to inject himself with their powers.
@@user-jp7tw3sd3x I'm curious if the Inheritors, the original antagonists of the Spider-Verse arc, will factor in some way. Since there's lots of build with mystical concepts like the Web of Life and they're one of the few villains and/or organizations that benefit from having hundreds of Spider-People at once (considering they're dimensional vampires that eat people who carry an animal totem).
Miguel isn't an anomaly. Anomalies are aftermaths of an event that shouldn't have happened due to external influences from other universes or simply being in the wrong universe.
Hell, his comic book literally says Spider-Man 2099. He is in no doubt spiderman, just that he is very unique for having different powers and different upbringings.
For the canon stuff, each spidermen would have different canon events due to who, what, when and where they are in their world. Hobie is Spider-Punk but does not have the same canon events as the classic spidermen have because his story takes place during an authoritarian rule of Norman as president (and in ASTV, it's in UK with Fisk as the PM).
Miguel definitely has his canon events (like finding out his scumbag boss is his biological father, and his reality falling apart due to Wolverine destroying the space-time continuum), they're just very different. It wouldn't discount him from being spiderman because otherwise that's like saying Peni isn't spiderman because her powers are all from her mech or Jess can't be spiderman because she didn't lose an uncle.
7:57 Now I’m imagining Miles going “You couldn’t save your loved ones? That’s probably a skill issue, to be honest” as the climax to Beyond the Spiderverse.
1:05
They basically said
"Oh people actually LIKE the different and altering styles? lets run with that, times it by 10" 😂
I like that he tried to reason with Miles first. He probably didn’t believe he’d let his father die, but he knew he had to give him the chance before just pouncing on him. It’s a good reminder that he’s an antagonist, not the villain.
Y’know, even if he is probably The Prowler
Edit: I hate that when Miles asks Peter if he’d be good with Uncle Ben if he knew it would happen, Peter dodges it with “iF nOt fOr uNcLe bEn, womp womp womp.” Sir, that is not the question my client is asking
Looks like Peter would probably have left uncle Ben die just for some "canon event"
@@rocbenaa1963 we all know he wouldnt, which is why he doesnt respond. if confronted by it, EVERY SINGLE ONE of those spiderman would do all in their power to save the ones they love. because that's spiderman.
even that miguel, if confronted by another telling him this, would fight against it.
I gonna say, and even with the horrible working conditions, the animators absolutely deserve the amount of credit and love they deserve. Even the directors as well. I honestly do hope the working conditions will be better.
Also I’m sure Wish will be great.
“Also I’m sure Wish will be great“
Well, that aged like milk.
Miguel’s bigger brain fart is that he says he knows every spider-mans’ story but somehow doesn’t know that the spider brought to Mile’s dimension wasn’t brought by Miles, but by the Spot and Kingpin, thus making it contradictory to even call Miles an anamoly when the anamoly was actually the spider and the Spot
Because Miles isn't dumb. The movie literally shows everyone that Miles figures it out on his own. Miguel just explains it.
I really love Hobie and hope he will get more screentime in the third movie
the best part is, hobie was given the role of romantic rival for miles, and instead, he dumps it at the first opportunity to become miles best man...
I think CellSpex's point about Miguel being wrong about canon events will come true. I wonder if Miguel's only evidence about canon events comes from his own experience where he took the place of the dead Miguel. I think this because Miguel tells Miles that because he saved the captain in Mumbattan, a supposedly "canon" event, the black hole was swallowing that universe. However, clearly the blackhole had already begun because of Spot before the captain was even in danger. So, if Miguel was correct, somehow the black hole would have just gone away if Miles had let the captain die? That does not make any sense.
Considering the spider people have a whole team sent In almost immediately and they know what to do I think there’s at least some evidence that it’s happened before in other universes, but he’s likely wrong about a few things.
I think he took correlation as causation where he took the first answer as the true answer. My theory is that all the universe traveling is poking holes in the spiderverse, that ripples everywhere. The universe can heal itself and switch some events around a change (aka Miles becoming Spiderman with no Universe ending). And it would explain Miguel's universe ending since I believe he was the first universe traveler.
That's true, I forgot about that. @@islasullivan3463
@@Ashbrash1998My theory is a universe gets destroyed when it becomes a rubbish story. A universe's hero dies but then an interdimensional traveller comes in to replace him like a Deus ex Machina. That's a rubbish story, so the writer destroyed the universe and started a new one.
Whereas the universe Miguel came from wasn't destroyed, because the world's protector abandoning them and a new hero rising from the ashes is a great story.
Then in Beyond the Spiderverse, the Spider-people figure out how to break through the 4th wall and force the writers to write universes which would be good to live in. That fits with the movie's name, and I think they'll do this, but if executed poorly, it could ruin the trilogy. But if executed well, it could be great.
@@me-myself-i787really love this one, not sure if it's true, bit the concept is really interesting and fun ^^
2:29 It’s definitely going to be 42 Miles as we already got that sneak peak opening of Beyond showing how his Prowler is more like a Robin Hood type. Though, I do think we could also get a bit of Miguel and show how he went from discovering and studying the multiverse to where he is now where he’s let his life get consumed to trama and guilt.
5:43 Its actually interesting to see Josh Keaton’s take on it since a lot of people were surprised his Spider-Man was on board for the canon it’s kinda interesting.
I can already see Beyond opening with him and comic recap
@@CellSpexDefinitely think Marvel will give him his own mini series. Kinda shocked he hasn’t already did.
@@bizarroguy6570There's probably some licensing issues
My theory is a little messed up, but i feel like miguel is not only wrong, but canon events are not even real things. Meaning all those spidermen who let innocent people die for the canon did it for no reason. This Theory also would explain all the loopholes in "canon events" like miles world still being a thing after his peter die, or Prowler miles world existing without having spiderman.
It would be pretty cathartic to berate the entitled fan insisting “things need to stay the same” by showing how wrong he is.
I feel like having them be completely fake would be kinda dumb and a huge cop out. It would feel like they did everything just to justify Miles being right. Miles is already kinda a dicey subject with a lot of Spider-Man fans and this wouldn’t really help him there. I think that cannon events exist but Miguel’s interpretation of them was wrong. That would be a good complex middle ground to explore instead of: “Ha ha miles is a prefect paragon of virtue all along.”
About Miles and Gwen relationship...it is romantic because of the bulid up. In fact it was one of the rarely healthy and progressive relationships in movies. Most of the staff and creators have mentioned it's a romance film, but not in a tradition sense.
İt doesn't even need mentioning
İt's obviously gwen miles romance
Whole movie happened because they couldn't stay away from eachother
@@navidtahmasbi2870 and she literaly told miles she likes him but cant be with him. and you can see that through out the movie. i mentioned this before but, miles likes gwen, but gwen loves miles. her feelings are much deeper. to the point she put everything in jeopardy in order to go see him first.
another detail is that, in her flashback, in the moment after she jumps into the colider to go back... she does a kissing motion, as if to tell us that, if miles didnt offer to be friends, she was gonna jump at him, but he cockblocked himself...
All I can say is that practically everything about this movie was MIND-BLOWING! It's difficult to decide which parts I loved the most, both writing and animation-wise. I just hope for "Beyond the Spider-Verse" that the animators will receive much better treatment and the story will cap off these films in a very satisfying way.
They gave 'Kilometer Morales' to Hobie, because he's British who use metric even though imperial came from the UK, and meters are better than miles, a jab at Hobie's intro as a 'better version' of Miles. Schnee has an excellent breakdown of Hobie's character I totally recommend.
also, its kilometer Imorales. the I is very important there... since he is an anarchist, morals are some of the things you would think he would have thrown away as they are a code to follow...
I'm really hoping Miles gets with Gwen (mainly because I've been sailing that ship since day one) but if they don't, while I'll be disappointed I'll at least be interested to see where it goes.
Also, I feel Miguel telling Miles about the canon is not just a brain fart, but a sort of hollow gesture of sympathy. This cold explanation and whittling down Miles' story to just a number is the closest he can get to it.
to me, miles needs to end with gwen. not just because that's what the movies have been building up to now, not only because they clearly love each other, and not only because gwen is literaly able to sense when miles is in danger while he is IN ANOTHER UNIVERSE GETTING PUNCHED.
but because that's where the story needs to go for it to finish. from moment 1, we see that they arent just friends, but more, and that their feelings have only grown while apart.
we know they are in love, and that they are able to learn and grow from each other, but we also see that they feel complete when they are together.
i would even go as far as to say, the movies will end up with not just them together, but their universes as well. as that would tie that reference from the first movies of gwen talking about their universes combining, but also about miles' parents asking gwen to meet HER father.
Any animator who sticks through to the end of Beyond should be rewarded with an all-expenses-paid Caribbean or Alaskan cruise. Their choice. Across certainly made back enough money to make such a trip a handsome bonus.
They called Hobbie Kilometers Morales because he's British.
"Um, actually!" ☝🤓It was Harry Osborn's drug addiction. Honestly, it's a great read. A lot of those early Spidey stories still hold up today and they're absolutely worth a read if you find the time!
If I were to guess, perhaps he told Miles "2 days" because by telling him the truth, he shows he can be trusted, and then hopefully Miles will be more open to trusting him when he says that his father can't be an exception and that this has to happen (or perhaps if Miles walked around outside Miguel's sight and asked some of the others, he could get enough "when they were sworn in" answers to guess that it's when it will happen to his father as well, and then just take off before Miguel is able to stop him). Just my 2 cent.
I think Miguel told Miles because he saw no issue with it. Like you said he had a backup plan. The red in his suit was orange in that scene, symbolizing him being less defensive for the first time in the movie. He just…talked to Miles. And I feel that, in that moment he truly felt sorry for Miles and thought he deserved to know. After Miles kept going against him, only then did his suit slowly morph back to red.
As someone who puts Into The Spider-Verse as my favorite movie of all time, it's not fair to ask "is Across The Spider-Verse better?"
This is written to be a full trilogy. I absolutely love this movie. It has the best animation I have ever seen of all time. I see no reason to ask if it's better than its older brother.
im gonna be honest, i cant decide which movie is my all time favorite animated movie, into the spiderverse or megamind. both completely diferent movies, but both incredibly rewatchable for me. which is something i very rarely do.
i would put across the spiderverse there, but, to me, across is like empire strikes back, an amazing movie that hold up on its own. but which also needs the 3rd part to feel trully complete.
it is a "part 1". in the same vein i dont see the lord of the rings movies as 3 diferent movies, but a single one divided into 3 parts(and yes, that means when i do rewatch it, i try to do it all together).
Miguel taking the place of the death Miguel sounds more like an Incursion
I think it's highly possible that Miles and Gwen will get together given the theme of the movie. I don't think they will let the multi-verse stop them anymore.
the problem with the idea that trauma makes more empathic, is that for a lot of people it makes them feel too much pain for them to have empathy for others, I mean it would be pretty easy to be a super villain after that lashing out at an unfair world. and if you had a friend who lost a loved one, I think thats enough for you to value human life with out having to loose some one close to you. some people become more heroic after, some dont, and some can learn from the tragedies of others without having to experience it themselves
My personal biggest gripe with Miguel was that he was bashing Miles for things outside of his control - being bitten by a spider from another dimension, becoming spiderman, the other spiderman dying, etc.
I was also a little baffled by inclusion of Ben Reilly in a speaking role, because that guy draws an attention to a problem. If you watched the 90s Spiderman cartoon, he did cross over with a Spiderman that did have his Uncle Ben not die quite explicitly. I wonder if anything about that will be mentioned...
"My personal biggest gripe with Miguel was that he was bashing Miles for things outside of his control - being bitten by a spider from another dimension, becoming spiderman, the other spiderman dying, etc."
You have to remember that Miguel is coming from a place of guilt and trauma. In his mind, he tried to explain the potential danger of the situation to Miles as nicely as he could, yet Miles still insisted on trying to escape and break his universe's canon, possibly dooming trillions of innocent lives. He was frustrated and angry that this "dumb, inexperienced kid" was hellbent on repeating Miguel's own mistakes. So it was a combination of "I've been through this myself, why won't this kid listen to what I'm saying?", and "I refuse to let another universe suffer the same fate as my own", so he lashed out and said some things he probably shouldn't have.
@@sable-king2066 EXACTLY. not just that, but he is tired, his head is not in the right place. he said this a few times, but he is the one holding everything together. and that took a toll on him mentaly.
There’s absolutely no way they aren’t getting together in the 3rd film. Period. They literally have multiple songs in the movie album that depicts their love for each other: Self Love, Calling, etc.
Regardless, this is a very good video! Thank you!
honestly I love your take on how miles mirrors Gwen Stacy as this independent and cool adult but when it comes to herself shes is more like miles to to her fear of going home and fear of telling miles about the canon really good she's could of easliy just pretty face perfect love interest but she was more than that this one of the reasons why spider verse i
Despite Miguel being the leader of what’s essentially the kind of corporate that characters like Hobie fight against. Miguel arguably operates on emotion & base instincts more than any other spider person. When he’s trying to tell Miles the truth about why he can’t go back. He tries to be sentimental. Even putting his hand on his shoulder to comfort him. But when Miles defies that. Miguel immediately snaps & goes into literally beating the information into Miles. To a point that even Peter & Gwen started to rebel against Miguel. Ya know before the truth came out that they knew. Miguel doesn’t operate on as many codes & authorities as you would think. He often tries to hold back his worst instincts, but can often lose to that when he’s tested.
And I would argue his distain for Miles Morales is more routed in how Miles represents to Miguel what he could’ve done differently. Instead of literally replacing his alternate self for the sake of a family. He could’ve taken a different route that didn’t end up in that universe disintegrating. Because when the Chris Pine Peter died he didn’t replace himself with another Peter Parker to fill in the shoes. He passed the torch in a more traditional way. I feel like to Miguel, Miles represents everything Miguel did wrong. In the sense that Miguel didn’t have to rely so much on multiversal travel to have a happy life. As well as the fact that Miles is another anomaly, and yet everything worked out for him. And the fact that Miles was a teenager & was Spider-Man for 2 days max probably didn’t help with Miguel’s view on himself.
There is a thing I had been thinking about ever since the movie came out. Since the spot caused the explosion in Spider-Man India’s world which caused a bunch more destruction, does that mean the spot was causing a canon event of the inspector dying in that universe and did miles saving the inspector not really do anything because he wasn’t supposed to die at that time?
Like most people I love every second of this movie and I’m gonna be real, although the movie didn’t end and than cliff hanger stung that build up to it as well as the conclusion to Gwen’s fantastic arc was honestly phenomenal. Like it blew my mind in ways I haven’t felt since I was little so it’s nice that movies are maturing to my senses now
As much as ATSV doesn't seem to have a "definitive" ending, considering how it started with Gwen, the conclusion of her story with her father is one of the most deeply impactful to me, especially as a young trans person. Her arc about who she trusts, who she puts her faith in and her opening up to her father and eventually finding a group of people who are uniquely different in their communities yet similar to her.
Uhm she is not trans 😮
Trans allegory.
@@poliidentity does that make me unable to resonate with it? secret identities are close to queer identities in a way.
How it began: Gwen's drumming
How it ends: Gwen's drumming too
that's because the entire movie is a flashback. i mean, she literaly spoils the entire movie in that small intro(you can even see many scenes there).
I’ll never get tired of Kilometers Immorales
Miguel maybe the antagonist but he's not the bad guy he's just trying to make up for what he's done by maintaining order in the multiverse. He's just doing what he thinks is right and he wanted Miles to understand that which is why he told him the truth. I don't think Miguel is lying about the Canon I think he genuinely believes in it and is suppressing any doubts. If he's wrong about the Canon that would mean that everything he and the society had done and sacrificed would've been for nothing.
The ambition in its visuals and story, the craziness of that spider fight scene, Miles and Gwen's relationship, teasing Peni's tramatic backstory, the extra effort they went for in referencing spider man's legacy much like the first one, the love and craft went into making every visual, the catchy soundtrack, completely changing our viewpoint of the first movie, and the insanity of the final 15 minutes of the film. Even though I'm not happy about the working conditions for the animators, what a stellar animated experience this was. This and beyond will likely be the BEST of the BEST to ever come out of this god awful decade.
While my own read on the movie is just incredibly queer, I think the read of Miguel as a pseudo stand in for fans who insist on how things “must be” is an interesting one. I’ll be curious to see how the next film alters or reaffirms the various possible reads.
This trilogy is gonna be the best trilogy of all time every movie of this trilogy and yes I’m including BTSV is gonna be amazing
Supposedly, Miguel doesn't recruit a spider-person to HQ until they had their canon event. That is why Pvitr doesn't have one. But gave one to Gwen to help her out of her situation.
@TheMisstressSilence
i mean he did not want gwen to join at first.
one of my biggest question is about Pav. Why did he join the society? They must have lied to him. There is no way he would have joined this club knowing he would have to let his gf's dad die.
Honestly, I really like gwen’s betrayal. Not that it’s good or anything, but because it actually makes sense based on her character. So many times inter personal conflict (especially when it comes to potential romantic couples) feels forced in, or like the characters randomly got 10x dumber to make the plot work.
Gwen just got disowned and betrayed by her father, after the death of her friend that he blames her for and having to leave miles. She has no one- so it makes sense that she latches onto this new family and their rules. Imagine you’re a teenager (I can’t find a consensus on how old she’s supposed to be, but the max estimate seems to be 19) who loses every person in your life, then you get basically adopted into a cool superhero family, and you just have to follow a few rules to protect the fate of the universe.
Even though Gwen’s betrayal is wrong, it feels like a natural progression of her character arc. And because of that, I feel like it works a lot better than other movies with thrown in character conflict
(also, I’m probably reading into it too much, but gwen’s dad is a cop- someone who’s dead set on following rules because he thinks rules help people, to the point of arresting his own daughter because the rules say so. And then she joins a society that’s dead set on following a particular set of rules to help people, to the point of imprisoning a kid because the rules say so. But then Gwen’s dad quits, realizing that it’s more important to support his loved one and do good that way, even if it means disobeying the rules in place. At the same time as Gwen abandons the spider central rules to help Miles)
there's another detail as well, gwen's betrayal is important, as it breaks miles image of her. because he doesnt know gwen, he knows this idea of of gwen, who is perfect, beautiful, capable of doing everything she wants, and knows all the answers. she is his guide and who he looks up for, even more than peter b.
but now, he no longer has that, so he will have to meet the "real" gwen, the flawled, imperfect, but still good girl, who will have to prove to him, that she is worthy of his feelings.
i said this in a diferent post. in other movies, the romance falls flat, because the "heroine" is more of a trophy, she is there as a reward for a job well done. but in spiderverse, they broke that. gwen isnt a trophy for miles, its the opposite, miles is the "reward" for a gwen.
remember, he is the one in peril who must be saved, he is the one in need of help. and she is the one who screwed up.
miles has already completed his arc by the end of the first movie. and gwen has just now finished hers, with his help, by using HIS advice, and using him as her guide. the same way he used her and peter b as his before.
Too bad the animators of the film weren't given the best treatment while working on the film.
Miguel is not the reason why the collider blew up in the first movie. I would argue that the fault includes several Spider-People, but mostly Kingpin and his crew, including Spot. If Spot has access to all of time and space, I can see Spot causing Miguel's daughter's universe to seemingly end. It could be said that it might just change the properties of the universe. Miguel is a genius. However, even geniuses don't know everything. Of course, they could all just find The Dark Phoenix and she could fix everything just like that. Check X-Men for reference.
On the topic of Miles and Gwen potentially becoming a couple, I do think it it’s a step in the right direction for relationships in cinema right now. Mainly because of the “Relationship Revolution” as I call it.
Basically relationships shown in a more positive, nuanced way are usually LGBT based, not a bad thing, but I see when Hetero-based relations come up it’s usually a problem because they’re so simple and basic. Guy meets girl, they’re perfect for each other, perhaps a throwaway line about their feelings / light kiss: The End. It’s dead on arrival. LGBT couples are the ones getting all the character / relationship development.
If we want to break the “cinema curse” we have to have flawed, but humbled characters that are willing to work through each others problems *on screen* and make it feel natural. This is why I’m not fond of the new Superman cartoon, they’re “perfect” for each other and have mutual feelings immediately. Sure, but what *character* do they even have? It’s all just silly shipping.
Not just that, I’m seeing conflicting responses on relationships as a whole in Cinema, do we want it or not? Should we all just be friends? Or are couples fine as long as it’s not to hammy and thrown in your face? This would entail same-sex relations as well. Am I the only one who thinks this change would be for the better? I’d love to hear CellSpex take on this.
Miles and Gwen is honestly one of the few blockbuster movie hetero couples in the last 5 years that isn’t complete ass, they damn sure better get together.
Tbh I can understand why writers put so much time and effort into crafting dynamic, complex LGBTQ+ relationships because if they were just happy-go-lucky, love at first sight affairs like most hetero relationship subplots, there’d be people upset about the “wokeness” and “shoving needless relationships into everything.” LGBT relationships don’t yet have the luxury of just being able to be seen as “normal” romance subplots outside of romances explicitly marketed as LGBT, they sort of have to “prove” themselves if that makes sense.
not sure what you mean bc there are tons of straight relationships that go through hardship & development on screen. isn't "enemies to lovers" even a cliche?
I actually see less "perfect for each other, kiss, over" relationships than the hardship ones. I usually only see the former in disney movies.
@@indiesunflowers I humbly disagree, the issues I see are usually petty and self imposed which usually lead to a drawn out third act that didn’t need to happen in the first place. It’s drama for the sake of drama. “Enemies to lovers” isn’t really a thing in western media, that’s more Eastern territory.
The norm is that they’re either perfect for each other, have a silly self imposed problem to “spice up the plot” to be resolved by the end, or just get together “because movie”.
@@_kaleido I partially agree, more so with your first statement. I do think LGBT relationships are the norm in the sense that that’s what we see predominantly in media and most people are in support of it. Not only that, but the bulk of discourse when it comes to shipping and end game status is usually for them.
I do agree that it had to be “good” but that’s only because originally they were written the way heterosexual relations were made now, lifeless and hollow. I feel it was a multitude of things that made this happen, inclusion, marketing (as at the time people were pushing for this type of relationship for Pride sensibilities) and, “easy money”. In the sense that, the well for dating and relationships were so dried up people just wanted them to remain friends (CellSpex advocates for this on a bunch of here videos, something I disagree with). This lead to LGBT relationships taking over because they were “fresh, new and inclusive”.
There needs to be a fair balance. Ironically I’m seeing the same thing happening again, where people are growing tired of LGBT relationships, as it’s all that they see in cartoons and movies (as in it takes over the shows main plot, kinda like they’re aware of the general discourse on RUclips or Twitter and want to keep that shipping fire going) and want them to be friends. I think Avatar: The Last Airbender is a good example of we need to do when it comes to relationships. Have your main plot, have a personal issue be the sub plot for said characters, while that’s slowly being resolved, have the potential relationship be an alternative sub plot (through the lens of the original plot and sub plot, it can’t just come out of nowhere), and poof! A mix of hetero and LGBT relations would keep that portion of the plot interesting *and* still be inclusive.
I get annoyed that so many people, in-universe and out believe Miguel canon events theory so unquestionably despite there being so many holes on it, the fact the miles is suppose to be an anomaly against canon and that despite that his universe wasn't affected by it already disprove that you can't ever change the canon without the reality being erased, maybe the real reason as to why he hates miles is becouse his mere existence put's his whole theory and organization in question.
Finally someone who sees canon events are BS.
I always thought that Gwen would prove that Miguel is wrong since her leaving for the Spider Society caused her dad to quit the force, thus preventing the canon event. Therefore, the Spider Society fails at its own mission
1:41 Just like the _Back to the Future_ trilogy. Marty is always the protagonist of the main plot, but each movie has a subplot centered around another character.
BttF1: George
BttF2: future Marty and/or Marty Jr. (I'm not sure)
BttF3: Doc
One question I had that never seems to be brought up is: Why does Miguel make it seem like it's Miles' fault that he's an anomaly? He wasn't the one that teleported the spider. The spider was glitching, so it would have died anyway, even if it didn't bite anyone. Earth 42 would still have been left without a Spider-Man, due to spider-42 dying due to glitching. The spider wouldn't have teleported back. Miles was just in the right place and the right time to get bitten by the spider, it isn't his fault that The Spot and Doc Ock teleported it to Earth 1610.
its simple, that's because he is tired of everything, and he feels like he is the one holding the boat alone. its easy to find someone to put the blame on, when you arent in the best place of mind. and to him, miles seems like the perfect escape goat to take the fall for everything in the wrong.
13:36 to me, that's what the story is leading to. in the first, and up to half way through this movie, we had miles pursue gwen, both as an icon of what a spider person should be, but also romanticaly. but now, he has broken that image of hers, and went on his own. while she, who was the one setting the barriers for them to not be, is literaly pursuing him.
in other superhero stories, the "heroine" is often the trophy for the "main hero". she is there as a reward. but not in spiderverse. in here, they flipped it upside down. and now its gwen who needs to prove that she is worth of him.
its specially the case with how his parents looked at her in the end. the started by hating her, but then, they understood why miles likes gwen.
i wouldnt even put it past them to end the movie with their universe combined.
as in the first movie, that's something they brought up, and in this one, we have both a scene of miles father wanting to talk with gwen's, and a scene of her being happy with her, her father, peter and his uncle and aunty together. it would be a close image of having them all sitting during dinner, and then miles and gwen leave to do spider stuff.
Whenever I see anything Spider-Man related now I have to go watch the leap of faith again because it is just that good.
I 100% agree with the section talking about why the Spiderpeople follow Miguel, it's all I've been talking about whenever my friends ask me about my Spiderverse theories. I've usually phrased it as everyone going "Hey! You can't avoid bad things happening to those who are close to you! That's unfair! You need to be traumatized like the rest of us!"
Love Across the Spider-Verse, just wish the animators were respected more!
This is a how you do a sequel. It is a spectacular movie that shows to why animation is a legit cinematic art form and is one of the greatest animated films ever made. Not to mention that it definitely took some major risks with this film. And I don’t just mean with the animation but also with the storytelling that it creates some heartbreaking scenarios for our characters. All in all, peak animation project of the year and I can’t wait to see how it all concludes in Beyond! And… if it does to be as good, if not, even better than the two films we got, then not only would this most likely be the greatest animated film trilogy, but it would possibly due the impossible and top the Dark Knight trilogy as the greatest comic book trilogy of all time!
Well...given what happened behind the scenes, not ENTIRELY "how you do" a film...
@@christopherb501 Okay, that is true that it was a very hard and rough production, but it doesn't change the fact that the movie we got was amazing.
I’m happy your still posting enjoying videos
Posting to help with engagement because your videos always rock, Cellspex.
Imagine if in BTSV, the Comic Book Authority seal gets graffitied over and it’s design is the same spider logo Miles graffitied for his first suit?
That would be awesome!
And then we hear Hobie’s voice saying, “Let’s do this one last time”.
One debate my brother and I had after seeing the movie was how much of Hobbie’s involvement in how things shook out towards the end were him just doing what he felt like and taking advantage of the situation that arose, and how much was actual planning and masterminding on his own part, with Miles just providing the needed catalyst to get the rebellion against Spider Society started?
since gwen was staying with him, did he rub off on her, but making her feel the need to see miles? was it his mission to do, but he "let" her do it instead, knowing things would go awry?
The idea of “canon” in this sense can’t really permeate all comic continuities. It only serves as a way of grouping certain universes that come with certain circumstances. Even if you look at the main Marvel universe, 616, the existence of Cindy Moon shatters the whole “one spider person per universe” thing Miguel seems to support.
dont forget, the canon doesnt even work on the main team. miguel was never bitten, he doesnt even posses most spiderman powers, ben riley is a clone, means he is just an anomaly as miles is, jess is based on a character who also wasnt bitten, but instead got her powers from experiments done on her(or her mother while she was pregnant, been too long, and im too lazy to wiki it).
Never thought about the Spider-therapist that way. That's a great analysis of a scene that I thought was only a joke.
Also Miguel was the first person to dimension hop... you're explanation is really good too, and shows why they kept him as leader
It was also such a good exploration of all the spiderpeople in Nueva York that I'd never considered before
This is actually the most insightful ATSV video I’ve seen
Into the Spiderverse: Oscar for best animated movie
Across the Spiderverse: Oscar for best animated movie (c´mon, we know that´s gonna happed - deservedly)
Beyond the Spiderverse: "Alright, let´s do this one last time"
Even if it has a cliffhanger ending, I still liked the second one more than the first, since it was able to move past the origin story plot, and dive deeper into the characters we already know. And the visuals were just amazing, really liked the way the different art styles represent different universes. The way the different art styles blended together even gave me some inspiration for a horror comic I wanna make in the future.
Been waiting for this one
10:13 My theory:
Its not an interdimensional cannon event. It is a time traveler paradox instead.
Miguel is Spiderman 2099 after all. He is from the future. So maybe these dimensional collapse disasters is because he is creating time paradoxes across multiple universes while mistaking his place as a future alternate timeline as its own dimension.
Misdiagnosis based on the symptoms, ya know.
So the ultimate solution is to prevent Miguel from ever time-hopping because then all the parallel universes, dimension hopping or not, would be adhering to paradox free linear history.
Yeah, this was pretty great as a movie and a sequel. Still wish we seen Japanese Spiderman/Supaidāman, and considering what you do imply, I feel like he could be one of those Spidermen who have defied the "canon events". I mean, aside from his dad, the alien spider guy who gave him his powers, and possibly the Interpol Agent he befriends (Well, it has been a whiles since I have seen Toei Spiderman, so I don't quite remember if he died or not), he hasn't really have any of the other "canon events", or if he has similar events like that in his series (Again, it has been a while.) and he does have siblings unlike Peter, Gwen, Miles, and every other Spiderman and woman who are all the only kid in their family.
didnt they promisse he would be in this one?
as a side note, i REALLY hope that not only he shows up, but he shows up in leopardon(his mech), and when they cut to the inside of the robot, its a LIVE ACTION WEARING THE SUIT! also, i think he would be the perfect foil for Peni. she in her eva, and him in his leopardon,
the same way scarlet spider should fight spider noir. now for who will fight spider pig, im gonna say, it would be interesting if it was spiderbyte.
she being miguel's inside woman. and being basically a glorified v-tuber would be the perfect one to fight against spider pig's cartoon style.
peter b would fight miguel, gwen fight spiderwoman, and miles fight spot. also, i would make spider india not be able to fight due to getting injured and having to dip out, but comming back later to help in some way.
If Beyond follows the same pattern of having a deep arc for a side character, I'd expect Miguel would be the focus
You are so good at plot analysis! You unwrapped this tangled web(no pun intended) into a digestible themes and plot points! Thank you for what you do
I have three big criticisms;
1. I feel like it was too long. I think that Sequel hook with Prowler Morales Should have instead been the beginning of the next movie.
I feel like they could've ended with Miles's Mom asking "Who's Spider-Man" instead.
2. I kinda wish they held off on telling us the SPOT's backstory until they got to Mumbattan. Might've worked better for pacing there.
3. The Stuff with the Animators behind the scenes. More than anything actually in the film, that part hurts my enjoyment. Sorry if that sounds like I'm making this about me, But on the topic of Me; I'm the type of person who does not like consuming media that is made by people who have done things, or who support things, that are morally wrong.
I like the throwaway line: "It´s Hollywood, what do you think will happen" ...yeah of course boy meets girl, boy gets girl. It´s not even a cheesy cliche, I think most predictions we can make about how the movie will go and where alignments will end up, we can literally fixate on the unchangeable tropes of Hollywood. It would be a bigger surprise than all else that could possibly happen. Boy ends up with girl, it´s their one reason for existence, the one power to rule them all...and I so wish to be wrong about it. I don´t need every trope subverted, but this one I definitely wish to be wrong about, not even because it won´t feel bad, but because it would surprise me. In this case I would take a surprise over feeling good anytime.
I loved Across the Spider-verse it was really awesome and tons of fun and gave me everything I ever wanted and seeing my girl mayday parker spider-girl finally adapted from the comics even as a baby makes me so happy that I am super excited to see more of her in the future, also a bonus seeing Miles Morales Spider-Man and Spider-Gwen being a couple in the finale to this trilogy would be freaking fantastic and tons of fun at least in my opinion.
You repeat she's older but she's only a year older....
Cant we just unanimously start a go-fund-me to generously fund and pay the writers/animators of BTSV. I'm pretty sure with the amount of anticipation ATSV has built among the fans, it is very much possible to pay them above and beyond what they deserve for creating such a masterpiece.
Amazing. That Oscars prediction aged both like a fine wine and like milk at the same time.
I really enjoyed your interpretation of canon as a sort of coping mechanism. I hadn't thought if it like that but i definitely felt like there was something like that going on.
5:43 *Why do the Spider-People follow Miguel?*
I think the main reason is that Miguel is different. He apparently doesn't have Spider Sense since he was not bitten by a Radioactive Spider, but instead had his DNA altered. More crucially, he also does not have a Spider-Person's sense of humor or fun. Miguel is 125% Business and is SUPER SERIOUS. That, along with his willingness to do a job the other Spiders may not want to do, they just accept he is in charge.
In that regard, Miles is also vastly different. He may be the only Spider with his particular Skillset, so, neither of them may want to admit it, but it gives Miles and Miguel common ground to relate on.
Im a little surprised Cellspex didn't talk about the whole "Is Gwen Trans?" discussion going around the internet. I seriously doubt that is the case especially since if that WAS, they would have casted an actual trans woman to play her....there is also no incarnation of Spider-Gwen that is a trans woman. I think Gwen and her father are really just meant to be allies and the flag colors were used during Gwen's speech to help visually show how she is expressing herself.
11:00 , it was shown in the explosion that miles saw the vision of his fathers death and would figure out his fate. I think miguel kind of knows that miles seen his fate to an extent, which is why he confronts him at HQ.
The biggest reason is that Miguel is paranoid that Miles would somehow break Canon Event, whether or not he's aware of it. Hence the trap.
Great video!
Given the fact that Spiderverse is already being considered a best picture nom candidate, I'm excited to see if there can be 2 animated films in the category if The Boy and the Heron is that good
Love your take on everything, reminds me a lot of Schnee's takes on things
Honestly it would be a dream scenario if btsv focused on Hobie as its secondary main character like how itsv did with Peter B. and atsv did with Gwen, though I fear it's unlikely, both because it'll most likely be focusing on Miles G and because I read in an interview with Daniel Kaluuya (Hobie's va) that they initially didn't intent for Hobie to play as big a role in atsv as he did, but Kaluuya added so much more to the role that they rewrote some scenes to let Hobie play a bigger role, and I feel like they'd already planned out most of the story of bstv at that point (and thus already haven chosen Miles G as the secondary protagonist for it), since atsv was originally intended to be one movie.
But I hope that they at least let Hobie have more screentime in btsv since he turned out to be as popular as he did! Also I've heard that they're planning on going to earth-138 (Hobie's domension) in btsv so maybe we'll get lucky?
If not, I really hope they make a Hobie spinoff movie like they're planning with Gwen! (Though I'd like both a spinoff and a bigger role in btsv for Hobie, I can't get enough of this guy!)
hobie works because he isnt over used. they sprinkled him enough to season the story, and give us not only an interesting character, but also someone who also goes against the grain for what he belives.
he was put to be miles love rival when it comes to gwen, but he then gets up, says "screw that!" and turns into miles biggest helper before dipping out.
he is someone who already had his story, and is only enjoying life. he had his sacrifices, and he had his growth, which is why he is able to help miles, without being a guide like peter did.
there's nothing else for him to give miles. and you can see from him, that there's not much he needs to learn either.
I've heard schnee explain it as the battle between responsibility and Empowerment. And every iteration of spiderman shows them in some different state of this conflict. Like Peter B. Who starts out the series afraid of moving forward in his life and diving into being Spidey 24/7 to later having a baby with MJ. Responsibility> Empowerment
I hope they take all the time they need to get this right
i dont care, i just hope its great. taking time doesnt mean it will be. many movies and games have taken ALOT of time, and the end result was TRASH.
Miles is black!?
Oh God
Nah. He afro Latino tho
Miles morales is miles morales
@@andrewvaldez8866and Spider-Man. But his own kind of Spider-Man😎🕷️🕸️
i’m screaming💀😭😭
I've never thought about the Comics Code Authority before. It would be so cool to see that in the third movie.
this video just won my subscription specially with how he compares Miguel as toxic fanboy
I perosnally think Across is gonna be the most fan fav of the trilogy because its the middle part that gets to focus more on the characters, which generally tends to resonate with audiecnes the best (Godfather Part 2, Shrek 2, Kung Fu Panda 2, and Empire strikes back are the ones that come to mind)
godfather 2 doesnt count, because godfather 3 is not a "part 3". but more of a "3". godfather is a duology that got a sequel. in the same way we dont count the hobbit movies when we talk about lord of the rings, even though its a literal prequel.
as for empire, even though the vocal fans talk about it being their favorite, there are MANY who thinks jedi is the best. and, back when it came out, empire was actually hated for being incomplete.
across might be the fan favorite, but we dont know yet, it could happen that the 3rd movie is so amazing, it blows both part 1 and 2 out of the water.
@@marcosdhelenofirst I did say that this is just what I THINK. Not fact. Opinion. Second, the godfather part 2 is a sequel. The first works as a standalone. The second follows it and while yes they work best when viewed as a whole, thats just a trilogy for you. Any trilogy fundamentally doesn't have sequels according to what you say because they are intended to be viewed as one set. The hobbit trilogy is different to the lotr trilogy, but share a continuity. StarWars has the og trilogy, the prequel trilogy, and the sequel trilogy, which are all seperate film trilogies within a shared contuintiy. Also regarding Ur point on Empire, yes no duh, people don't universally agree on anything. Many people think both A new hope and retrun of the Jedi are better films. But I was just pointing out that there is a consistent trend where of any given trilogy, the 2nd film tends to be incredibly well received and gets the highest praise of the trilogy for the simple fact that they build upon the first but also take more time to focus on the characters journeys, which the 3rd films can't always do. And yes ofc Beyond could be the best Spiderverse film. But I personally think it will be the most positively reviewed and received of the trilogy.
Miles knows the Spot is after his family. He accidentally created the Spot. I doubt he would have been content with doing another mission that doesn’t involve the Spot. Maybe if Gwen goes with him, it would keep his mind off of it. But then Miguel risks Gwen getting closer and revealing the truth. You could also argue that Miguel is overly confident given his success in convincing every other Spider-man. Gwen hadn’t even lost her police captain but still went along with him knowing she might have to let her dad die. I don’t think that problem is as bad as people say it is.
Intresting questions and I love it. And nice perspective on Gwen I did´t really think of it like that. Now this is a serie I can see have a tear yerker ending where they won´t be able to cross dimensions anymore becuse of the danger but still end on a happy note.
what if, their dimension combines? you know, like gwen said back in the first movie? then we could have the scene of their parents meeting, since his father asked her to meet her's. and it could end with them all sitting at a table, enjoying dinner, just like it was back when her peter was alive, with may and ben, but now its miles parents.
gwen did say she loved his mother's cooking, and they finally accepted her, after seeing why miles likes her(which they also mentioned multiple times).