A tool should be affordable to be useful; most the hard working men I met only equipped with $10 Home Depot knives, no way they will spend $200+ on a MT.
Completely disagree. Leatherman still sells the bond, which if you adjust the original PST for inflation when it first came out it is about 120 in 2024.
I see your point. I do think leatherman should take a page out of Buck's playbook. They have the high end collector stuff. But they never left their core consumer base Which are Hunters and outdoorsmen. They have a USA made option for 30$, an expensive option for the scrooge mcDuck types and everythingin between.
This is a problem with a lot of USA companies leatherman, spyderco, benchmade their prices keep going up but the quality isn't increasing with the prices. Even benchmade, spyderco, hinderer, chris reeve, microtech are having pretty good clones/copycats pop up of their products because they have priced themselves out of most peoples budgets. Its not just a leatherman issues its a usa company issue and corporate greed first and foremost
You make a really good point...wave and Surge are definitely not outdated. And correctly, you have stated the insane # of Sales on the clones. Clearly they could improve them and it would sell crazy good.
I hate the limited editions. Because the Mr.Crunch is quite neat. I would love one. But because they made so few I can never have one. If I had one I would use it. It's a tool. Not a display piece! Leatherman needs to realize this and make tools again. I see them making only more display pieces slowly pushing the market away from users. I do have an ARC and Curl. Used the ARC for work and it does great. I sure abused it. And dulled the blade two times forcing my brother to sharpen it lol. Great tool but definitely a little pricey.
This "rant" is why your the EDC-tube goat!! ST300 with a bit driver, surge scissors and one of the flat drivers sharpend into a chisel and you'd have a tradie's best friend, but it wouldn't look good in instagram photos
I’ve owned a few waves and surges. The surge I’ve carried on my duty belt on multiple deployments, and decided in 2020 to retire my first one and get a new one. That new one only lasted me 3 years. The jaw for the pliers broke, right where the screw for the replaceable cutters is. It broke while fixing an issue with weapon system, that had jammed while firing. I’ve relayed on leatherman tools for so long that I never questioned their quality, but the day they let me down, was a day that I really needed that tool, and time was of the essence. Fortunately I had a set of knipex cobra 180’s in my kit, and was barely able to fix the gun and get it up with that, but what I needed in the situation was a needle nose pliers… ie the surge. Even though it took longer to fix I’m grateful I had those knipex. Had I not had the redundancy built into my plan, my team and I would have been in a tough spot.
I'd love to see some basic Leatherman models with blades in 14C28N. That's a good, tough, highly stainless steel that could offer a significant performance upgrade from 420HC without kicking the price way up. BTW, you're right about the Juice. The Squirt was another one that I'd like to see updated.
I agree with one addition. PST or modified Kick give the maximum tool set in smallest package. Bond could be a new classic (the refined version of PST/Kick) but wasn't done right.
I had a skeletool and the pliers broke in less than two weeks. I was only twisting bailing wire, I feel like that probably shouldn't break a pair of pliers.
Leatherman are doing what so many brands do these days unfortunately. The original owner sells or retired or whatever . Then the new guys take control of rhe company and they bring in THEIR people , fresh out some stupid fancy pants design school or marketing department. They then move away from the original path of the bramd which built and actually made the brand , trying to " appeal to a wider customer base " . The result is that they end up alienating their core customer base who's been loyal to them and supported the brand over the years , whilst at the same time the elusive " wider customer base " who has no emotional investment or real interest in the brand just goes : " meh ! " and doesn't even really give them the time of day . For whatever reason they cannot understand that their core customer base is what makes the company what it is .
Spot on! They’re marketing to the “EDC Community” now and not people who actually need and use tools everyday. This was clearly evident during the initial release of the ARC.
I recently lost my wave that I've been carrying for over a decade (it walked away at a job), sticker shock hit HARD when I started looking around for a new replacement. I paid I think $80 for the wave I lost, you can't even get barebones skeletool for that, anything worthwhile replacement from them would run almost double what I paid for that wave. Ik inflation is a factor but still they don't really have any value options anymore which is what got them where they are now
I agree with you, though. A Charge flavored Surge would be nice. Better blade steel, scale options, and whatnot could be cool. I’m literally begging for a Juice successor
I’ve tried just about everything but my favorites are still the originals PST and PST II. There is one simple reason, I can flip the original leather sheath upside down and appendix carry on my belt without knowing it’s there. While I appreciate the surge, it's too big IMO. Few complaints about the Wave but day to day I’m never far from my tools in the garage, office, car, at work, etc so my priority is minor work in the most compact package. I would love to see innovation in the PST format. Refine the toolset, the finish, and refine the Carry options. Make a sheath in mass that carries low so I don’t have to turn mine upside down to keep it out of my way. Along with an appendix carry sheath, add a pocket clip option for PST III. The bond and curl are decent, but still too thick for true appendix carry. My PST setup is invisible. The Bond failed not only with the loose joints but also too many spacers. I added 2 tools to my bond. The Curl needs more versions. I could also see revisions of the skeletal, but I still think a PST update designed to be worn front and center (and pocket clip option) would the best choice in terms of popularizing EDC outside of the EDC community. People don’t want something big in their pocket, and they don’t want the hip pouch. Design the tool and sheath for appendix carry: super lightweight super thin no frills. Then there's the Kick, I actually really like it. I think the locks are overrated for what I do with the multi tool. Anything that would require the tools to lock I’m going for full size tools. The kick, like the bond, can hold a lot more tools than what it came with (too many spacers). I actually think it was a better solution than the bond to soften the grip, it just needed to be filled with more tools (not spacers) or put a slightly thinner plier head (like skeletool) and make it even slimmer.
I don’t understand why LM discontinued the Juice and Squirt lines. There are places with knife laws that would permit these, and you’d think it would be a great market for LM. The decision-making across the board puzzles me. It seems to me that once they came up with the Surge, they didn’t have anyplace else to go. A Surge on a smaller platform would have made some sense, I think. They did it with the ST300/Rebar.
My Leatherman Squirt PS4 is great for my pocket carry. Everyday I use the pliers, knife and scissors. On it I would like a can opener, similar to the victorinox, instead of the bottle opener. It's so expensive to buy this model nowadays. I carry my Surge in my glovebox for heavy duty work, and opening cans.
Best recent "innovation" for me is the Bond. Decent quality no-nonsense tool for reasonable price but you dont make margins selling cheap, simple and durable.
Rebar w pocket clip and scissors would be a nice improvement. For whatever reason (maybe due to the high costs of made in USA) Leatherman seems to move slowly, with new innovations being in development for many years. Unlike an iPhone, Leatherman are not designed to be replaced with next years model, they like to keep them around. I think they have a pretty complete lineup as it is, and it can even be confusing w the number of options they have. That being said, as a fan of multitools I can relate to your position, there are improvements that could be made to older models (like my rebar idea). As for innovation, I’m completely sold on the Free series, I think it triples the user experience. Whenever I’m not carrying my P4 I scoff when I have to put something down, unfold the tool, unfold the scissors etc. it’s a humiliating experience!
Victorinox still makes everything in Switzerland for 1/4 the price of Leatherman. You can’t tell me it’s more expensive to make it in the USA… They just got lazy
I get the clones because they have 1/4 in bit drivers and they are cheaper priced and their scissors actually work. I don't feel bad about moding a $50 tool. I love the surge. I would like to see them ditch the flat bits and the serrated blade. Put in a 1/4 in bit holder and a file with a chisel tip instead. And don't waste a slot with a holder for a screw driver for your glasses, stow it in the handle. They need to pay close attention to what the moders are doing! I will not pay $230 for a multi tool! This video needed to be made. Thank you.
Just for fun I looked at their website the other day. I was shocked at the price increase since the last time I bought a Wave+. It seems to me that they're pricing out the guys who buy these tools to use them in favor of the influencer and collector. Really is shame because I love all 3 of my Leatherman tools.
I totally agree. When i got the email about the Obsidian coming out, my first thought was that they would do a stripped down cheaper ARC. Something like the P2 maybe with out the extra bit kit and without the crappy grey sheath.
Good video, Ben...I have said that L has wanted to go "high-end" & "designer" for quite a while...they have ignored the very base that made them...their QC is terrible, they do away with tools like the Crunch & others that folks like, instead of updating problems & designs & re-issuing them...The cutter problem is atrocious to the point that folks are looking elsewhere to obtain properly designed cutters for their tools...V is criticized for not innovating fast enough, but they take the time because it's their brand that is at risk...To my knowledge, they have not had to walk back their changes & still have old-school tools available for folks like me...I was hoping the Founder might be brought back to put focus on the brand & get it off the dime & moving in the right direction...it is no wonder L is seeing more competition, that is the marketplace...if people can get tools & assessories of decent quality & price to do their jobs & meet their needs, then they will do so...
Forgive me for being a (fan boy) but leatherman has always had my back. Even when i may or may not have mistreated or misused their products. I have probably 15 different leatherman tools in my collection. All have been shelved since I got the ARC! Brilliant tool! Point im getting to is, they've had my back and i will always support them.
I bought a leatherman bond 1 year ago. I love it's simplicity, it's astounding build quality and of course, the main reason I bought it: the price. It's just been great, there's not much I haven't been able to do with it. In fact I thought that Leatherman should do a more premium version of the Bond. Imagine the same Bond, which doesn't have the blade issue anymore (mine does have it), but with a magnacut blade, pocket clip included, diamond coated file, change the assembly screws with the classic torx, and replace the useless lanyard loop with a real tool that fits there, like a really small screw driver for small works. It would be more expensive, but I think that would be an amazing tool, focused on durability, reliability and usability.
0:52 “Leatherman has pushed themselves into collectors company” while showing he has collected every piece they’ve made as if it’s not a sickness but he needs them for use!
I remember a guy ( I think it was Tim Leatherman) coming into our shop on Portland back in the late 70’s with a handmade prototype of his multi tool. He wanted to know if we could help him produce it in quantity. I told him it was out of our light metal stamping capability. He was a down to earth humble kind of guy. I thought he had a good idea. 30 years later, i stopped by their facility. It was quite impressive on the manufacturing side. Marketing, not so much. And they have yet to make as impressive a tool as the one I bought over 40 years ago, which still works fine for me.
Good rant Ben. I hope this video gets to Leatherman Co. and make them wake up. I agree the Surge is still King. They should make a multitool that can beat the King because the Arc is not it.
@@billybunter3753 and a sawblade instead of the blade exchanger... if only they standardised their tool thivknesses and allowed us to order custom ones
@@chriskp I’m not being dramatic. Leatherman’s 420HC is pot metal compared to a properly heat treated powder metallurgy knife steel. Buck’s 420HC has significantly better edge retention than leatherman’s 420HC because it’s heat treated properly.
I thought the Leatherman garage was to test ideas to implement. It's been disappointing to see that some of the ideas havent trickled down into the core lineup.
Just bought a Surge and the main blade was ground 3/32" on one side and maybe a 1/64" on the other. Exchanged it direct through Leatherman and received basically the same grind. They're mis-stepping in a lot of directions.
Sold all mine and used the money to build a mini tool kit and buy a nice Spyderco. Knipex cobra xs, wiha go box, etc… the corny insider program did me in. From about 13 years old till this year (27) my Leatherman was my ultimate gadget, my best edc item. Rebar had most of those years. Got the P4 in 2021 and didn’t hate that. The magnacut marketing sold me to the Arc. Then they were doing a cool insider program to show their die hards appreciation. A special gift for the highest tier, which takes about $500 to get to… it’s a made overseas coffee cup that you have to spend a minimum of $50 on an order for. I didn’t put my Leatherman in my pocket that day and got right on Facebook marketplace when I got home. Other than my first Fuse that my mom got me, literally my first ever knife of any sort, my first super cool made in USA product… I don’t own anything Leatherman anymore.
My best thought that you brought up is specialize (granted, that would be costly) a leatherman for the office, for the boat, for the hunter, and so on. Similar to how the MUT is for specifically gun maintenance.
I've got to agree with everything said here. it's sad to see Leatherman in this shape. I've carried a lot of leatherman tools over a decade and a half and will continue to carry the ones I have but I won't be grabbing a new one.
Could not agree more! Please Leatherman, just make the Surge and Wave have all it's tools accessible when closed, and give the wave the same swappable saw/file as the surge has! Incremental updates is all they need!
I'm a machine tech and carry a Wave, all day, every day. Some of the best money I have ever spent as far as tools and ROI. Always wish they would come out with a larger version of the Squirt ES4 wire strippers that also had crimpers for doing wiring and electrical.
There is an interview of the owner of Arizona Tea. Reporter ask if they are gonna raise the price from 0.99¢... His like why? We are already making money... It's a great interview
I would like Leatherman to make an awl that fits in the bit holder. A small "innovation" but it would add some more utility. Possibly it has been done independently, but I have not seen it. I did see one that someone had ground out of another bit.
I have a Leatherman Surge with all of the accessories, and a Victorinox Swisstool MX Clip with all of the accessories. I alternate between the two. I love them both! I believe that they represent the best of their brands.
Tell us how you really feel. But seriously, I'm first and foremost a Victorinox enthusiast, and I've been watching the same trend in the Swiss army knife market. I guess there's more money to be made as a lifestyle brand more than through innovation and meeting the wants and needs of the core customer base.
I agree 100% they dont invest in new design, and models, as a first responder i'd love leatherman to do a rescue tool, as they did back then with the skeletool, i'd really like a signal style tool with external scissor, glass hammer ( as the bibury cheap tool has) , a glass saw and a strap cutter (a premium version with glow in the dark scales would be awesome too)
Once again ……….. YOU HAVE NEVER SAID A TRUER WORD !!!! Well done, but I feel that Leatherman just isn’t listening …..😢😢. I also feel that the SURGE would be even more amazing if it had an UPGRADE !!! Better steel for BOTH it’s knife blades, & new thoughtful tool-set (like the Swiss tool). Mix the tools up, bring out some “Specialist” Surge Models, for specific trades men. Jeeeeeeezzzz ……. They’d make a killing once again !!! 😮😮😮
You are 100% right. I have bin wanting a multitool from Leatherman that has the same toolset and quality as the surge, but without a knife. Or a knife that you can take out of the tool. Just so you have a (air)travel friendly multitool with all the good tools i use on a day to day basis. But i'm not gonna lie, the Leatherman fan boy in me is starting to die out. #SurgeIsKing
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There is also a kind of decline. As i switched from a PST to a Rebar i noticed how bad the pliers were fitted. If i let lose of one of the handles i expect the pliers to open. It seems a common problem Leatherman is not willing to fix. Also the scissors on the Wingman are 3rd class dogshit from what i'm used to. I had to adjust the angle of the blades edge on the Rebar, because the cutting edge of the main blade of the Rebar bend on a plastic tube. BTW the PST and the SuperTool never did that kind of thing, it never occurred to me not using the blade for scraping the edge of PVC tubes. So my Rebar vanished into my carry bag and a Victorinox took the job of being my EDC. I still think the Rebar over all is a good tool, but the pliers on a pliers multitool have to be spot on. They were so exceptionally good in the 90's and early 2000's and well priced, i hope they get back there.
10:08 there are things like the bond (which isn’t perfect 😅) or the curl.. these have less tools or lesser quality but are cut a bit in price.. it’s not that they don’t do anything.. But I get your point, I’d love to see a „budget arc“
Hey Ben, Jose from Puerto RIco. When I heard that they discontinued the Leatherman Crunch, that's when I said: These guys are loosing their way. I was desilutioned with that move. I was glad I bought a new Crunch, before they made the move. I have the Surge too. Now I'm watching the small EDC tools that come out of Kickstarter. I recently bought a small EDC multitool that I always have on me, since they are my key ring.
I own many Leatherman from Supertool to ARC and they have all been and all will be used even the ones that turned out to be rare items. I'm never going to buy a collector piece or a tool I own in a new colour. It's all about the function and how it improves or compliments the jobs I'm doing.
They are starting to fall away from making tools with multiple uses, now becoming an expensive accessory. What happened to "leatherman... now you're ready"?
All good points, I totally agree! Especially about the cutters. Same comes through everywhere, bulbs, fridges, washing machines etc. It's designed to fail to be able to sell more. But, as you say, cheaper companies will manufacture parts that will last longer, they'll just use the good old design. There will be a tipping point when I stop buy "premium" stuff that used to deliver, and get the cheap stuff that actually works...
The cutter issue is all it takes to see that leatherman has no self preservation intent. It’s so frustrating how precise you need to be with them to make cuts. However I haven’t had breakage issues. My st300 had to take on a lot when brand new Quinn cutters exploded after four cuts of tie wire on block laying job. Annoying to line up my cuts but no cracking or dulling after 30+ cuts that day.
Thank you for not holding back. This is why I am such a fan of your channel. I appreciate your opinions. I have a Wave+ that I bought maybe 10ish years ago, and I'm glad I have it. But I hate my Free T4, and am saving up to replace it with a Victorinox... probably a Sportsman, so I still have a file. But I keep waiting for Leatherman to update their legacy products... I think a knifeless Bond, or an update to the knifeless Regar that removes the saw, would be great tools for folks who are mostly office dwellers. Maybe this would be a good place to add the Wingman's package opener. But as you said, it seems that they are more interested in these high dollar, collector focused pieces these days, and I'm not interested in any of them. Thanks for the honest look.
I agree that their prices are insane. I have about 30 different letterman tools. I don’t have an ARC yet but that will most likely be the last one I buy. I also despise the limited and garage tools that I cannot get my hands on. Over the last few years I have switched to buying Swiss Army knives and I love them. I still don’t buy their expensive line of tools but I do like adding them to my everyday carry selection.
"DLC" stands for Desperate Leatherman Cashgrab All they need to do is pump up the material quality and featureset on their old tools, and then the clones wont even touch them
I bought the arc for EDC and it really comes in handy. I figured it was worth it for replacing a dedicated blade, driver, and bottle opener. It's a real slap to the face that it only comes with the useless half of a bit kit and I have to buy T6, T8, and a PH0 and PH3. And it's too expensive to lose and not be devastated. I hope they replace the P4 with a model that has a driver that's around $100 so I can carry it without as much fear. Taking it to work or out to safe places is fine, but I wouldn't carry it with me traveling far.
I agree totally. Here in South Africa the standard Arc works out to about $420 which is way out in price point. The Wave and Surge are way better in terms of affordability for the average man
Dear Leatherman, I am poor and was saving up for a Free P2. Then you discontinued it and replaced with a tool twice as expensive that I will never buy. Please bring back the P2
When the Signal came out I expected that we would get a small tool opposing the large tool in the Wave That would have been an easy update. 4 more slots for small tools would have given room for a second bit-holder, a nice awl and something more.
Leatherman along with Victorinox are resting on their laurels. I totally agree that they are not innovating which is why they were initially successful. You cannot stand still in this world or you will be run over. I hope they figure that out before it is too late. Ben - another great video sir! PS love the rant it is needed!
I'm a Victorinox fanboy but I think it's wrong to say that they initially became successful because of innovation, or have been all that innovative over the past 134 years. The Soldier knife issued until 2008 had barely changed since the original 1891 model, all that changed really were the design of the can opener, adding a bottle opener to the screwdriver, and the scales. Likewise my Spartan which I was gifted last year has barely changed since the original Offiziersmesser in the mid 1890s, it has the same toolset with a few changes to some tools. That's actually why Victorinox are successful , because they are almost timeless classics, with typical Swiss precision and quality, and are very very affordable.
I have old style Wave with non replaceable wire cutters and when I decided to upgrade I went with the Surge. I can fully agree with you that the Surge is a much beefier tool but it does not cut wire any better than the old style Wave, and possibly worse in some cases. The quality of the new Surge is lacking as well with unfinished edges which are sharp and overloose or overtight pivots. My next purchase will be Victorinox where I will know what I’m getting for my money.🇨🇦
I hope they’re just waiting for interest in the arc to dry up to bring out a budget option using the blade from the P4. If they fix the wire cutters it would be the perfect tool for me
I carry a Bond here in the UK and overall it's a good tool, there's not really a direct Chinese equivalent so the competition isn't quite as tough. ( I have noticed the new colour versions have a sheepsfoot blade 😉) If I was leatherman I'd drop the price on the Wave by a good chunk. Add it a Wave model with say an s35vn or similar blade at the current price and then a magnacut version at a premium price point. Worthwhile upgrades to a great tool and making then standout above cheaper imports. Minimal development costs for LM as well. Great to have the content flowing again. Cheers 🍻
It's $375 in Canada vs $300 for their standard Arc which has (presumably) proper 25 year warranty support vs any limited model. It's a BO Arc that I won't be able to get spare parts for (matching pocket clip) or properly warranty unless they do a normal BO Arc with that... "lovely" blade colour, all to capitalize on people's FOMO. That last part isn't new, however the Garage series typically benefits both the customer & Leatherman - the new thing is that the tool isn't anything different, it's the same Arc in black oxide. FOMO is real & Leatherman knows that. They've also started charging for their regular colour drops, the Bonds are selling $10 more than the stainless version yet they very recently released new Skeletool colours without raising the price but at least they changed the blade to more of a sheepsfoot recently.
I agree. I think the arc is cool. But I’m not paying that kind of money for a multi tool. I paid $80 for my Wave a few years back and that’s all I use.
The wave or surge is too big for me, and i rarely will need pliers that large. The juice is perfect for me, small enough to carry on my work bag. I think mine is the juice cs4? Plus it has a nice waiters style wine opener. Only wish it didn’t have a blade because I occasionally go into buildings where weapons aren’t allowed.
I still occasionally use my 20 year old wave. In 20 years they haven’t made a single tool I felt the need to upgrade to especially for the current prices. If I lost my wave I would probably go to harbor freight and get the Gordon version.
I couldn't agree more ben. Its time for the king of multi tools to be updated and i would by it in a heart beat. Literally all they have to do is make the arc have a blade steel at 154cm or 420hc and it would sell like crazy and i personally would love to see the micro driver changed out for something like the package opener combo tool on the victorinox spirit mx clip and it would be perfect
A budget free series, with a simple knife blade & t shank on outside, bit exchanger on one inside handle, micro driver and large flat/pry/can opener on the other. Comes with both a pocket clip and a sheath. Would be much more valuable. Slim down the pliers if need be
I was so excited when it looked like they were going to bring spring pliers to their higher end tools like on the #005. I would've snatched the arc right up, but I'll have to stick with my modified wingman for now. Why innovate when those innovations are only available on bespoke, limited run, tools?
I used the wave for ages for some pretty hard farm work, I recently bought and tried out the Arc for the same thing and wow. Super disappointed 😅 The cutters broke, the pliers loosened at the pivots and now wobbles like crazy, the saw is almost useless for green wood (it clogs on natives) and is the most uncomfortable tool I've had the misfortune of using. I now carry knipex pliers and a SAK.
WHY THE CUTTERS SUCK: this will blow your mind... They changed the casting for the Wave Plus, it made the older cutters not fit correctly...so they designed new cutters..but intalled them on everything.... So rather than just fix the wave cast...they made EVERY other tool worse... Great call..
What's your source on this? You can't just make claims like that & not back it up. I literally used to use the old cutters in a new Wave+ as my daily before I switched to a TTI/Arc. Now my 2023 TTI has 2019 cutters but they've also been tried on the Arc. They fit correctly.
Well, the point is not what but why... why being secretive, thats the point. Admit. Whatever the cause is and we will still support ltg. But denial, that's what can cause deeper resentment towards the brand..
They were so close to turning the ship around too. If the Curl had the Surge's T-shank adapter instead of the stupid useless file, a pocket clip and the wave's lanyard loop it would have been the tool that saved Leatherman, instead of something else to find on an endcap in Dick's Sporting Goods amongst a sea of also-rans. With a slightly upgraded knife steel they could have had a killer option at a ~100$ price point. The file works in the Surge so well because you can sharpen the knife thanks to the T-shank, on the Wave/Curl that just means you're going to be spending your real money on an actual pocket knife)
There lies the problem... The file is indeed useful. Most with a MT will have no use for a t shank adapter. Also, doesn't it come with a pocket clip? I could be wrong. I agree that the knife steel should have been better. They need to upgrade all their knives to 154cm.
I've had my Wave (fist gen) stolen and replaced it by buying a used one off of eBay. Then, it happened again. My Wave was stolen from out of my luggage. So, again, I went on eBay and purchased another used (near new) Wave first gen. Why? Because I favor those older versions. I love my older Leathermans, but yeah, the company needs to get their act together. Oh, and bring back the Leatherman Sideclip! That's another discontinued model that I have gone back to hunt down on eBay. The Sideclip is by far better than the Bond, but still fills the same role as a slim, non-locking blade multi-tool.
I have always been a Leatherman guy since there first model. I have the arc and I like the tools but the blade doesn’t have to be Magnacut. I always carry a dedicated knife with me and I think Magnacut is definitely overkill for a multi tool blade.
The collector's market will be Leatherman's doom, but I haven't bought a new model since they introduced the Rebar. I did buy another one last year, so I have a spare, but that's it. The collector's market is a run of tools that even if they cost 50% more than a mass production model to make, can be sold with any margin you want because it goes to collectors. Just like the limited run alox that Victorinox use to do for folks like Swiss Bianco. The problem is management. They've turned into a toy maker, not a tool maker, and I need tools I can afford to replace when they get stolen. Not broken, not lost, stolen. Thats why I drive a cheap car, to. When I can get 90%+ the tool for a third the price, I'll do so. And I have been.
Perfect summation. Leatherman can only survive on their past success for so long. It's alarming that they're giving up so much of the market to competitors.
I’m so sick of where leatherman is headed. I loved the OHT and how they didn’t follow up with a second generation really surprised me. As someone who carries pliers daily, as do many other farmers and ranchers in the Midwest, so many of us have been asking for a blunt nose multi tool from leatherman to compete with Gerber. I love the toolset of the Dual force and a leatherman equivalent is really what I had been hoping for. And can we please get standard size bit drivers?!
Always been a Victorinox guy. Leatherman doesn't interest me much. I like the SOG designs better but I'm not sure if the quality is there. Almost bought a Skeletool CX once but it was a bit too unrefined feeling in my hands. I'd rather carry around better tools to be honest. If anything, I'm still waiting for a locking screw driver / bit driver.
I couldn't agree more. They are being driven by greed instead of intelligence. Once the main tools were created you need to be innovative to produce something. The way I see it: Main intersection of all needs: Surge, Wave+ Speciality: Raptor (rescue workers), MUT (riflemen), ... If Leatherman had any brains they would produce a multi tool for Glock pistol owners. With so many guns in the US alone and the share of Glock users it would be an instant hit, without affecting the sale of the other tools. And like that they could revise every need and prioritize their releases.
I had football on my mind when I said Ron Rivera, I meant Ben Rivera.
Leatherman use to make affordable useful tools for the working men; now they make expensive flashy gadgets for Instagram posts.
A tool should be affordable to be useful; most the hard working men I met only equipped with $10 Home Depot knives, no way they will spend $200+ on a MT.
Not possible if you still want USA made. Domestic labor is expensive if you want to pay workers a decent wage. So pay up, traitor.
@@ThisSentenceIsFalse What did you call me?
Completely disagree. Leatherman still sells the bond, which if you adjust the original PST for inflation when it first came out it is about 120 in 2024.
I see your point. I do think leatherman should take a page out of Buck's playbook. They have the high end collector stuff. But they never left their core consumer base Which are Hunters and outdoorsmen. They have a USA made option for 30$, an expensive option for the scrooge mcDuck types and everythingin between.
This is a problem with a lot of USA companies leatherman, spyderco, benchmade their prices keep going up but the quality isn't increasing with the prices. Even benchmade, spyderco, hinderer, chris reeve, microtech are having pretty good clones/copycats pop up of their products because they have priced themselves out of most peoples budgets. Its not just a leatherman issues its a usa company issue and corporate greed first and foremost
You make a really good point...wave and Surge are definitely not outdated. And correctly, you have stated the insane # of Sales on the clones. Clearly they could improve them and it would sell crazy good.
I hate the limited editions. Because the Mr.Crunch is quite neat. I would love one. But because they made so few I can never have one. If I had one I would use it. It's a tool. Not a display piece! Leatherman needs to realize this and make tools again. I see them making only more display pieces slowly pushing the market away from users.
I do have an ARC and Curl. Used the ARC for work and it does great. I sure abused it. And dulled the blade two times forcing my brother to sharpen it lol. Great tool but definitely a little pricey.
This "rant" is why your the EDC-tube goat!!
ST300 with a bit driver, surge scissors and one of the flat drivers sharpend into a chisel and you'd have a tradie's best friend, but it wouldn't look good in instagram photos
It's you're - don't worry grammar and spelling gets easier in second grade.
I’ve owned a few waves and surges. The surge I’ve carried on my duty belt on multiple deployments, and decided in 2020 to retire my first one and get a new one. That new one only lasted me 3 years. The jaw for the pliers broke, right where the screw for the replaceable cutters is. It broke while fixing an issue with weapon system, that had jammed while firing. I’ve relayed on leatherman tools for so long that I never questioned their quality, but the day they let me down, was a day that I really needed that tool, and time was of the essence. Fortunately I had a set of knipex cobra 180’s in my kit, and was barely able to fix the gun and get it up with that, but what I needed in the situation was a needle nose pliers… ie the surge. Even though it took longer to fix I’m grateful I had those knipex. Had I not had the redundancy built into my plan, my team and I would have been in a tough spot.
That's why I took my Victorinox Spirit with me in Subsacharan Africa. The warranty would not have helped me there.
Completely agree with using the knipex, their (08 21 145) small needle nose honestly outperform any multi tool and ate way sturdier
Can't beat German, Knipex and Wera for the win.
I'd love to see some basic Leatherman models with blades in 14C28N. That's a good, tough, highly stainless steel that could offer a significant performance upgrade from 420HC without kicking the price way up. BTW, you're right about the Juice. The Squirt was another one that I'd like to see updated.
The Squirt was a genuinely brilliant design. I just can't see why they discontinued it.
A wee tool like that didn't need a lifetime warranty.
I couldn't agree more Ben. The Wave, Surge, and Skeletool were the holy trinity for me. They were the last of the greats for production.
I agree with one addition. PST or modified Kick give the maximum tool set in smallest package. Bond could be a new classic (the refined version of PST/Kick) but wasn't done right.
I agree and have the three. For my personal use, the Wingman hold its own.
I had a skeletool and the pliers broke in less than two weeks. I was only twisting bailing wire, I feel like that probably shouldn't break a pair of pliers.
@@yolobathsalts I agree. It would have been a fault in the making process somewhere. Warranty should be valid.
@jeffslaven the pliers breaking when twisting anything is a common issue with the skeletool. You can read all about it if you don't believe me.
Leatherman are doing what so many brands do these days unfortunately.
The original owner sells or retired or whatever .
Then the new guys take control of rhe company and they bring in THEIR people , fresh out some stupid fancy pants design school or marketing department.
They then move away from the original path of the bramd which built and actually made the brand , trying to " appeal to a wider customer base " .
The result is that they end up alienating their core customer base who's been loyal to them and supported the brand over the years , whilst at the same time the elusive " wider customer base " who has no emotional investment or real interest in the brand just goes : " meh ! " and doesn't even really give them the time of day .
For whatever reason they cannot understand that their core customer base is what makes the company what it is .
This! Articulated better than I ever could have!
Spot on! They’re marketing to the “EDC Community” now and not people who actually need and use tools everyday. This was clearly evident during the initial release of the ARC.
Agree. Bring back revised, improved versions of the Squirt PS4, Style PS and Style CS. It’s what customers want.
The fashion EDC community is guilty... Keep buying big idea design or Benchmade gold class ...
Just like everyone complaining about vehicle costs and then buying an $80k truck so they look good for the fellas...which is weird.
I recently lost my wave that I've been carrying for over a decade (it walked away at a job), sticker shock hit HARD when I started looking around for a new replacement. I paid I think $80 for the wave I lost, you can't even get barebones skeletool for that, anything worthwhile replacement from them would run almost double what I paid for that wave. Ik inflation is a factor but still they don't really have any value options anymore which is what got them where they are now
I agree with you, though.
A Charge flavored Surge would be nice. Better blade steel, scale options, and whatnot could be cool.
I’m literally begging for a Juice successor
A full premium steel Surge with a premium bit kit! How awesome would that be? I'd happily pay more...
I’ve tried just about everything but my favorites are still the originals PST and PST II. There is one simple reason, I can flip the original leather sheath upside down and appendix carry on my belt without knowing it’s there.
While I appreciate the surge, it's too big IMO. Few complaints about the Wave but day to day I’m never far from my tools in the garage, office, car, at work, etc so my priority is minor work in the most compact package.
I would love to see innovation in the PST format. Refine the toolset, the finish, and refine the Carry options. Make a sheath in mass that carries low so I don’t have to turn mine upside down to keep it out of my way.
Along with an appendix carry sheath, add a pocket clip option for PST III.
The bond and curl are decent, but still too thick for true appendix carry. My PST setup is invisible. The Bond failed not only with the loose joints but also too many spacers. I added 2 tools to my bond. The Curl needs more versions.
I could also see revisions of the skeletal, but I still think a PST update designed to be worn front and center (and pocket clip option) would the best choice in terms of popularizing EDC outside of the EDC community.
People don’t want something big in their pocket, and they don’t want the hip pouch. Design the tool and sheath for appendix carry: super lightweight super thin no frills.
Then there's the Kick, I actually really like it. I think the locks are overrated for what I do with the multi tool. Anything that would require the tools to lock I’m going for full size tools. The kick, like the bond, can hold a lot more tools than what it came with (too many spacers). I actually think it was a better solution than the bond to soften the grip, it just needed to be filled with more tools (not spacers) or put a slightly thinner plier head (like skeletool) and make it even slimmer.
I don’t understand why LM discontinued the Juice and Squirt lines. There are places with knife laws that would permit these, and you’d think it would be a great market for LM. The decision-making across the board puzzles me. It seems to me that once they came up with the Surge, they didn’t have anyplace else to go. A Surge on a smaller platform would have made some sense, I think. They did it with the ST300/Rebar.
My Leatherman Squirt PS4 is great for my pocket carry. Everyday I use the pliers, knife and scissors. On it I would like a can opener, similar to the victorinox, instead of the bottle opener. It's so expensive to buy this model nowadays. I carry my Surge in my glovebox for heavy duty work, and opening cans.
Best recent "innovation" for me is the Bond. Decent quality no-nonsense tool for reasonable price but you dont make margins selling cheap, simple and durable.
Rebar w pocket clip and scissors would be a nice improvement. For whatever reason (maybe due to the high costs of made in USA) Leatherman seems to move slowly, with new innovations being in development for many years. Unlike an iPhone, Leatherman are not designed to be replaced with next years model, they like to keep them around. I think they have a pretty complete lineup as it is, and it can even be confusing w the number of options they have. That being said, as a fan of multitools I can relate to your position, there are improvements that could be made to older models (like my rebar idea). As for innovation, I’m completely sold on the Free series, I think it triples the user experience. Whenever I’m not carrying my P4 I scoff when I have to put something down, unfold the tool, unfold the scissors etc. it’s a humiliating experience!
Only the arc is USA made
Victorinox still makes everything in Switzerland for 1/4 the price of Leatherman. You can’t tell me it’s more expensive to make it in the USA… They just got lazy
@@atomicsmith my Spirit MX cost more than my Free P4. Gerber Centerdrive plus is the same price as P4.
@@Benzion-x3q they are all USA made
@@Kayakasaurus they have to cross a 70 percent threshold of parts made in america to be LEGALLY able to be called usa made
You speak the truth and we all appreciate it!!
I get the clones because they have 1/4 in bit drivers and they are cheaper priced and their scissors actually work. I don't feel bad about moding a $50 tool. I love the surge. I would like to see them ditch the flat bits and the serrated blade. Put in a 1/4 in bit holder and a file with a chisel tip instead. And don't waste a slot with a holder for a screw driver for your glasses, stow it in the handle. They need to pay close attention to what the moders are doing! I will not pay $230 for a multi tool! This video needed to be made. Thank you.
Just for fun I looked at their website the other day. I was shocked at the price increase since the last time I bought a Wave+. It seems to me that they're pricing out the guys who buy these tools to use them in favor of the influencer and collector. Really is shame because I love all 3 of my Leatherman tools.
I totally agree. When i got the email about the Obsidian coming out, my first thought was that they would do a stripped down cheaper ARC. Something like the P2 maybe with out the extra bit kit and without the crappy grey sheath.
Good video, Ben...I have said that L has wanted to go "high-end" & "designer" for quite a while...they have ignored the very base that made them...their QC is terrible, they do away with tools like the Crunch & others that folks like, instead of updating problems & designs & re-issuing them...The cutter problem is atrocious to the point that folks are looking elsewhere to obtain properly designed cutters for their tools...V is criticized for not innovating fast enough, but they take the time because it's their brand that is at risk...To my knowledge, they have not had to walk back their changes & still have old-school tools available for folks like me...I was hoping the Founder might be brought back to put focus on the brand & get it off the dime & moving in the right direction...it is no wonder L is seeing more competition, that is the marketplace...if people can get tools & assessories of decent quality & price to do their jobs & meet their needs, then they will do so...
Forgive me for being a (fan boy) but leatherman has always had my back. Even when i may or may not have mistreated or misused their products. I have probably 15 different leatherman tools in my collection. All have been shelved since I got the ARC! Brilliant tool! Point im getting to is, they've had my back and i will always support them.
I bought a leatherman bond 1 year ago. I love it's simplicity, it's astounding build quality and of course, the main reason I bought it: the price. It's just been great, there's not much I haven't been able to do with it. In fact I thought that Leatherman should do a more premium version of the Bond. Imagine the same Bond, which doesn't have the blade issue anymore (mine does have it), but with a magnacut blade, pocket clip included, diamond coated file, change the assembly screws with the classic torx, and replace the useless lanyard loop with a real tool that fits there, like a really small screw driver for small works. It would be more expensive, but I think that would be an amazing tool, focused on durability, reliability and usability.
0:52 “Leatherman has pushed themselves into collectors company” while showing he has collected every piece they’ve made as if it’s not a sickness but he needs them for use!
I remember a guy ( I think it was Tim Leatherman) coming into our shop on Portland back in the late 70’s with a handmade prototype of his multi tool. He wanted to know if we could help him produce it in quantity. I told him it was out of our light metal stamping capability. He was a down to earth humble kind of guy. I thought he had a good idea. 30 years later, i stopped by their facility. It was quite impressive on the manufacturing side. Marketing, not so much. And they have yet to make as impressive a tool as the one I bought over 40 years ago, which still works fine for me.
I really am missing the Juice range.
Good rant Ben. I hope this video gets to Leatherman Co. and make them wake up. I agree the Surge is still King. They should make a multitool that can beat the King because the Arc is not it.
Surge is definitely still King! A Surge fully made with a more premium steel would be awesome! And upgraded bits. I'd gladly pay more!
@@billybunter3753 and a sawblade instead of the blade exchanger...
if only they standardised their tool thivknesses and allowed us to order custom ones
Also, the 420HC from Leatherman is basically pot metal. The heat treat is very poor. 55-57 HRC. 😆
I get you are being a bit hyperbolic, but I don’t mind their 420hc and I would have loved a version of the arc using the blade from the Free P4
@@chriskp I’m not being dramatic. Leatherman’s 420HC is pot metal compared to a properly heat treated powder metallurgy knife steel.
Buck’s 420HC has significantly better edge retention than leatherman’s 420HC because it’s heat treated properly.
I thought the Leatherman garage was to test ideas to implement. It's been disappointing to see that some of the ideas havent trickled down into the core lineup.
Just bought a Surge and the main blade was ground 3/32" on one side and maybe a 1/64" on the other. Exchanged it direct through Leatherman and received basically the same grind. They're mis-stepping in a lot of directions.
Sold all mine and used the money to build a mini tool kit and buy a nice Spyderco. Knipex cobra xs, wiha go box, etc… the corny insider program did me in. From about 13 years old till this year (27) my Leatherman was my ultimate gadget, my best edc item. Rebar had most of those years. Got the P4 in 2021 and didn’t hate that. The magnacut marketing sold me to the Arc. Then they were doing a cool insider program to show their die hards appreciation. A special gift for the highest tier, which takes about $500 to get to… it’s a made overseas coffee cup that you have to spend a minimum of $50 on an order for. I didn’t put my Leatherman in my pocket that day and got right on Facebook marketplace when I got home. Other than my first Fuse that my mom got me, literally my first ever knife of any sort, my first super cool made in USA product… I don’t own anything Leatherman anymore.
My best thought that you brought up is specialize (granted, that would be costly) a leatherman for the office, for the boat, for the hunter, and so on. Similar to how the MUT is for specifically gun maintenance.
I’m still waiting for the spring pliers of the 40th Garage model to come to a normal model.
I've got to agree with everything said here. it's sad to see Leatherman in this shape. I've carried a lot of leatherman tools over a decade and a half and will continue to carry the ones I have but I won't be grabbing a new one.
Could not agree more! Please Leatherman, just make the Surge and Wave have all it's tools accessible when closed, and give the wave the same swappable saw/file as the surge has! Incremental updates is all they need!
I'm a machine tech and carry a Wave, all day, every day. Some of the best money I have ever spent as far as tools and ROI. Always wish they would come out with a larger version of the Squirt ES4 wire strippers that also had crimpers for doing wiring and electrical.
There is an interview of the owner of Arizona Tea. Reporter ask if they are gonna raise the price from 0.99¢... His like why? We are already making money... It's a great interview
Yes it was
I would like Leatherman to make an awl that fits in the bit holder. A small "innovation" but it would add some more utility. Possibly it has been done independently, but I have not seen it. I did see one that someone had ground out of another bit.
Right? I really don’t understand why LM hasn’t done that.
Hey Ben have you checked out the Roxon Flex? Its pretty neat you may dig it
My leatherman surge is always on me
I have a Leatherman Surge with all of the accessories, and a Victorinox Swisstool MX Clip with all of the accessories. I alternate between the two. I love them both! I believe that they represent the best of their brands.
Tell us how you really feel.
But seriously, I'm first and foremost a Victorinox enthusiast, and I've been watching the same trend in the Swiss army knife market. I guess there's more money to be made as a lifestyle brand more than through innovation and meeting the wants and needs of the core customer base.
I agree 100% they dont invest in new design, and models, as a first responder i'd love leatherman to do a rescue tool, as they did back then with the skeletool, i'd really like a signal style tool with external scissor, glass hammer ( as the bibury cheap tool has) , a glass saw and a strap cutter (a premium version with glow in the dark scales would be awesome too)
Once again ……….. YOU HAVE NEVER SAID A TRUER WORD !!!!
Well done, but I feel that Leatherman just isn’t listening …..😢😢.
I also feel that the SURGE would be even more amazing if it had an UPGRADE !!! Better steel for BOTH it’s knife blades, & new thoughtful tool-set (like the Swiss tool). Mix the tools up, bring out some “Specialist” Surge Models, for specific trades men. Jeeeeeeezzzz ……. They’d make a killing once again !!! 😮😮😮
7:25 - I'd buy that in an instant! The Arc is my ideal toolset but i can't justify the cost enough to upgrade from my EDC P2.
I mortally hate that cutter gap!!!!!
You are 100% right. I have bin wanting a multitool from Leatherman that has the same toolset and quality as the surge, but without a knife. Or a knife that you can take out of the tool. Just so you have a (air)travel friendly multitool with all the good tools i use on a day to day basis.
But i'm not gonna lie, the Leatherman fan boy in me is starting to die out.
#SurgeIsKing
There is also a kind of decline. As i switched from a PST to a Rebar i noticed how bad the pliers were fitted. If i let lose of one of the handles i expect the pliers to open. It seems a common problem Leatherman is not willing to fix. Also the scissors on the Wingman are 3rd class dogshit from what i'm used to.
I had to adjust the angle of the blades edge on the Rebar, because the cutting edge of the main blade of the Rebar bend on a plastic tube.
BTW the PST and the SuperTool never did that kind of thing, it never occurred to me not using the blade for scraping the edge of PVC tubes.
So my Rebar vanished into my carry bag and a Victorinox took the job of being my EDC.
I still think the Rebar over all is a good tool, but the pliers on a pliers multitool have to be spot on.
They were so exceptionally good in the 90's and early 2000's and well priced, i hope they get back there.
Been carrying Leatherman for the better part of 25 years. Currently have the Wave (of course), Charge, Skeletool, and Signal.
So what you're trying to say is, we need even more colorful versions of our tools. Gotcha. -Takeaway from LM leadership
10:08 there are things like the bond (which isn’t perfect 😅) or the curl.. these have less tools or lesser quality but are cut a bit in price.. it’s not that they don’t do anything..
But I get your point, I’d love to see a „budget arc“
Hey Ben, Jose from Puerto RIco. When I heard that they discontinued the Leatherman Crunch, that's when I said: These guys are loosing their way. I was desilutioned with that move. I was glad I bought a new Crunch, before they made the move. I have the Surge too. Now I'm watching the small EDC tools that come out of Kickstarter. I recently bought a small EDC multitool that I always have on me, since they are my key ring.
I own many Leatherman from Supertool to ARC and they have all been and all will be used even the ones that turned out to be rare items. I'm never going to buy a collector piece or a tool I own in a new colour. It's all about the function and how it improves or compliments the jobs I'm doing.
Still using the original PST with no plans to change.
They are starting to fall away from making tools with multiple uses, now becoming an expensive accessory. What happened to "leatherman... now you're ready"?
All good points, I totally agree! Especially about the cutters. Same comes through everywhere, bulbs, fridges, washing machines etc. It's designed to fail to be able to sell more. But, as you say, cheaper companies will manufacture parts that will last longer, they'll just use the good old design. There will be a tipping point when I stop buy "premium" stuff that used to deliver, and get the cheap stuff that actually works...
The cutter issue is all it takes to see that leatherman has no self preservation intent. It’s so frustrating how precise you need to be with them to make cuts. However I haven’t had breakage issues. My st300 had to take on a lot when brand new Quinn cutters exploded after four cuts of tie wire on block laying job. Annoying to line up my cuts but no cracking or dulling after 30+ cuts that day.
Thank you for not holding back. This is why I am such a fan of your channel. I appreciate your opinions.
I have a Wave+ that I bought maybe 10ish years ago, and I'm glad I have it. But I hate my Free T4, and am saving up to replace it with a Victorinox... probably a Sportsman, so I still have a file. But I keep waiting for Leatherman to update their legacy products... I think a knifeless Bond, or an update to the knifeless Regar that removes the saw, would be great tools for folks who are mostly office dwellers. Maybe this would be a good place to add the Wingman's package opener. But as you said, it seems that they are more interested in these high dollar, collector focused pieces these days, and I'm not interested in any of them.
Thanks for the honest look.
I agree that their prices are insane. I have about 30 different letterman tools. I don’t have an ARC yet but that will most likely be the last one I buy. I also despise the limited and garage tools that I cannot get my hands on. Over the last few years I have switched to buying Swiss Army knives and I love them. I still don’t buy their expensive line of tools but I do like adding them to my everyday carry selection.
"DLC" stands for Desperate Leatherman Cashgrab
All they need to do is pump up the material quality and featureset on their old tools, and then the clones wont even touch them
Oh shit!! Soooo using this!
Leatherman needs to make a multi crescent wrench with 1/4" retractable socket and bit adapter. Best pair for the multitool imo.
I like rants. 🤙
I bought the arc for EDC and it really comes in handy. I figured it was worth it for replacing a dedicated blade, driver, and bottle opener. It's a real slap to the face that it only comes with the useless half of a bit kit and I have to buy T6, T8, and a PH0 and PH3. And it's too expensive to lose and not be devastated. I hope they replace the P4 with a model that has a driver that's around $100 so I can carry it without as much fear. Taking it to work or out to safe places is fine, but I wouldn't carry it with me traveling far.
I agree totally.
Here in South Africa the standard Arc works out to about $420 which is way out in price point. The Wave and Surge are way better in terms of affordability for the average man
I carry a Wingman and love it. The best tool on the Wingman are the scissors. I really like the pocket clip. Been carrying it for at least 5 years.
Leatherman has lost it! My charge g10 is my favorite. I agree 100% with you. I got so aggravated with them that I stopped doing reviews on multitools
Dear Leatherman, I am poor and was saving up for a Free P2. Then you discontinued it and replaced with a tool twice as expensive that I will never buy. Please bring back the P2
When the Signal came out I expected that we would get a small tool opposing the large tool in the Wave That would have been an easy update. 4 more slots for small tools would have given room for a second bit-holder, a nice awl and something more.
Leatherman along with Victorinox are resting on their laurels. I totally agree that they are not innovating which is why they were initially successful. You cannot stand still in this world or you will be run over. I hope they figure that out before it is too late. Ben - another great video sir! PS love the rant it is needed!
I'm a Victorinox fanboy but I think it's wrong to say that they initially became successful because of innovation, or have been all that innovative over the past 134 years. The Soldier knife issued until 2008 had barely changed since the original 1891 model, all that changed really were the design of the can opener, adding a bottle opener to the screwdriver, and the scales. Likewise my Spartan which I was gifted last year has barely changed since the original Offiziersmesser in the mid 1890s, it has the same toolset with a few changes to some tools. That's actually why Victorinox are successful , because they are almost timeless classics, with typical Swiss precision and quality, and are very very affordable.
I have old style Wave with non replaceable wire cutters and when I decided to upgrade I went with the Surge. I can fully agree with you that the Surge is a much beefier tool but it does not cut wire any better than the old style Wave, and possibly worse in some cases. The quality of the new Surge is lacking as well with unfinished edges which are sharp and overloose or overtight pivots. My next purchase will be Victorinox where I will know what I’m getting for my money.🇨🇦
I hope they’re just waiting for interest in the arc to dry up to bring out a budget option using the blade from the P4. If they fix the wire cutters it would be the perfect tool for me
Hey Ben!
I would love to see your review on the Boker Plus Atlas Multi. It is pretty similair to victorinox compact but a little bit simpler.
I carry a Bond here in the UK and overall it's a good tool, there's not really a direct Chinese equivalent so the competition isn't quite as tough. ( I have noticed the new colour versions have a sheepsfoot blade 😉)
If I was leatherman I'd drop the price on the Wave by a good chunk. Add it a Wave model with say an s35vn or similar blade at the current price and then a magnacut version at a premium price point.
Worthwhile upgrades to a great tool and making then standout above cheaper imports. Minimal development costs for LM as well.
Great to have the content flowing again. Cheers 🍻
It's $375 in Canada vs $300 for their standard Arc which has (presumably) proper 25 year warranty support vs any limited model. It's a BO Arc that I won't be able to get spare parts for (matching pocket clip) or properly warranty unless they do a normal BO Arc with that... "lovely" blade colour, all to capitalize on people's FOMO. That last part isn't new, however the Garage series typically benefits both the customer & Leatherman - the new thing is that the tool isn't anything different, it's the same Arc in black oxide. FOMO is real & Leatherman knows that.
They've also started charging for their regular colour drops, the Bonds are selling $10 more than the stainless version yet they very recently released new Skeletool colours without raising the price but at least they changed the blade to more of a sheepsfoot recently.
I agree. I think the arc is cool. But I’m not paying that kind of money for a multi tool. I paid $80 for my Wave a few years back and that’s all I use.
The wave or surge is too big for me, and i rarely will need pliers that large. The juice is perfect for me, small enough to carry on my work bag. I think mine is the juice cs4? Plus it has a nice waiters style wine opener. Only wish it didn’t have a blade because I occasionally go into buildings where weapons aren’t allowed.
I agree completely. Why in the world has Leatherman not introduced scale tools for the wave, surge, etc??
I still occasionally use my 20 year old wave. In 20 years they haven’t made a single tool I felt the need to upgrade to especially for the current prices. If I lost my wave I would probably go to harbor freight and get the Gordon version.
I couldn't agree more ben. Its time for the king of multi tools to be updated and i would by it in a heart beat. Literally all they have to do is make the arc have a blade steel at 154cm or 420hc and it would sell like crazy and i personally would love to see the micro driver changed out for something like the package opener combo tool on the victorinox spirit mx clip and it would be perfect
A budget free series, with a simple knife blade & t shank on outside, bit exchanger on one inside handle, micro driver and large flat/pry/can opener on the other. Comes with both a pocket clip and a sheath. Would be much more valuable. Slim down the pliers if need be
I was so excited when it looked like they were going to bring spring pliers to their higher end tools like on the #005. I would've snatched the arc right up, but I'll have to stick with my modified wingman for now. Why innovate when those innovations are only available on bespoke, limited run, tools?
You are right, there are a whole range of options to make some smaller tools which would do very well
You're absolutely right!!!!
I used the wave for ages for some pretty hard farm work, I recently bought and tried out the Arc for the same thing and wow. Super disappointed 😅
The cutters broke, the pliers loosened at the pivots and now wobbles like crazy, the saw is almost useless for green wood (it clogs on natives) and is the most uncomfortable tool I've had the misfortune of using.
I now carry knipex pliers and a SAK.
WHY THE CUTTERS SUCK:
this will blow your mind...
They changed the casting for the Wave Plus, it made the older cutters not fit correctly...so they designed new cutters..but intalled them on everything....
So rather than just fix the wave cast...they made EVERY other tool worse...
Great call..
That’s insanity!
Source?
What's your source on this? You can't just make claims like that & not back it up. I literally used to use the old cutters in a new Wave+ as my daily before I switched to a TTI/Arc. Now my 2023 TTI has 2019 cutters but they've also been tried on the Arc. They fit correctly.
@@dmam412 His ass.
Well, the point is not what but why... why being secretive, thats the point. Admit. Whatever the cause is and we will still support ltg. But denial, that's what can cause deeper resentment towards the brand..
They were so close to turning the ship around too. If the Curl had the Surge's T-shank adapter instead of the stupid useless file, a pocket clip and the wave's lanyard loop it would have been the tool that saved Leatherman, instead of something else to find on an endcap in Dick's Sporting Goods amongst a sea of also-rans. With a slightly upgraded knife steel they could have had a killer option at a ~100$ price point. The file works in the Surge so well because you can sharpen the knife thanks to the T-shank, on the Wave/Curl that just means you're going to be spending your real money on an actual pocket knife)
There lies the problem...
The file is indeed useful. Most with a MT will have no use for a t shank adapter. Also, doesn't it come with a pocket clip? I could be wrong.
I agree that the knife steel should have been better. They need to upgrade all their knives to 154cm.
Wow...you could actually be right....the curl with a t-shank is genius 🤔🤔
I've had my Wave (fist gen) stolen and replaced it by buying a used one off of eBay. Then, it happened again. My Wave was stolen from out of my luggage. So, again, I went on eBay and purchased another used (near new) Wave first gen. Why? Because I favor those older versions. I love my older Leathermans, but yeah, the company needs to get their act together. Oh, and bring back the Leatherman Sideclip! That's another discontinued model that I have gone back to hunt down on eBay. The Sideclip is by far better than the Bond, but still fills the same role as a slim, non-locking blade multi-tool.
I have always been a Leatherman guy since there first model. I have the arc and I like the tools but the blade doesn’t have to be Magnacut. I always carry a dedicated knife with me and I think Magnacut is definitely overkill for a multi tool blade.
The collector's market will be Leatherman's doom, but I haven't bought a new model since they introduced the Rebar. I did buy another one last year, so I have a spare, but that's it. The collector's market is a run of tools that even if they cost 50% more than a mass production model to make, can be sold with any margin you want because it goes to collectors. Just like the limited run alox that Victorinox use to do for folks like Swiss Bianco. The problem is management. They've turned into a toy maker, not a tool maker, and I need tools I can afford to replace when they get stolen. Not broken, not lost, stolen. Thats why I drive a cheap car, to. When I can get 90%+ the tool for a third the price, I'll do so. And I have been.
Perfect summation. Leatherman can only survive on their past success for so long. It's alarming that they're giving up so much of the market to competitors.
How i can find and buy left first white arc ?
I’m so sick of where leatherman is headed. I loved the OHT and how they didn’t follow up with a second generation really surprised me. As someone who carries pliers daily, as do many other farmers and ranchers in the Midwest, so many of us have been asking for a blunt nose multi tool from leatherman to compete with Gerber. I love the toolset of the Dual force and a leatherman equivalent is really what I had been hoping for. And can we please get standard size bit drivers?!
I agree with every point of this video 100%!
I want a Skeletool scaled up to use the Surge size plier head and room for two or three extra bits instead of just one.
Always been a Victorinox guy. Leatherman doesn't interest me much. I like the SOG designs better but I'm not sure if the quality is there.
Almost bought a Skeletool CX once but it was a bit too unrefined feeling in my hands.
I'd rather carry around better tools to be honest.
If anything, I'm still waiting for a locking screw driver / bit driver.
couldn't agree more but also QUALITY CONTROL
I couldn't agree more. They are being driven by greed instead of intelligence. Once the main tools were created you need to be innovative to produce something. The way I see it:
Main intersection of all needs: Surge, Wave+
Speciality: Raptor (rescue workers), MUT (riflemen), ...
If Leatherman had any brains they would produce a multi tool for Glock pistol owners. With so many guns in the US alone and the share of Glock users it would be an instant hit, without affecting the sale of the other tools. And like that they could revise every need and prioritize their releases.