it happened to me in my surge got it 7 months ago brand new the same exact problem and at the same time when I bought the surge I bought a brand new signal there is nothing to complain about the signal it works perfectly its just the surge with this issue but the other tools works perfectly
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The thing I always appreciate so much about your videos is that it's always clear you're a working grunt who actually uses tools for a living. Nothing against the "EDC" crowd, they're just as entitled to their opinions as well. Being able to see these tools through the eyes of another knuckle-buster is just a real treat. I can't think of anything you've ever said or pointed out that wasn't also my experience using these as a professional maintenance guy. Keep it coming! Also, you turned me on to Swiss army knives. So my wallet curses you!
I live in Portland and I can tell you that working at Leatherman is a s*** show. My roommate has been doing it for 12 years. This guy's video is on point. They are already talking about raising the prices of the tools again and the folks that were doing the quality control work have been let go for the most part. A few years back, they cut staff big time. I really wish that somebody had made a video about it, but maybe they didn't know. Cheers
@@thisfishsmellsgood4084 sounds like the same thing with Boeing where they went from prioritizing making quality products to prioritizing stock performance. That's the BIG problem with finance people with no relevant manufacturing experience. They see experienced people as only a high cost.
I fear Leatherman is going down the same path that a I saw a few companies go down when I worked in the oilfield. The founder would build up a goid reputation, then retire or step back and their kids or the new managers would run it into the ground by replacing experienced guys with newer, less experienced hires. Quality would suffer, etc. Much like what is happening with Boeing with how they replaced the engineers in management who focused on making well engineered, quality aircraft, with finance people who focused on maximizing stock price.
Indeed! It takes a lifetime to build up a stellar reputation. It takes a very short time to ruin it all. This is unfortunately the case of many brands nowadays. Money and greed. Sad but true.
Hey, Ben...glad you are back!😊 I have said that LTG has been in decline, especially in QC & in decisions like canceling the Crunch...they seem to have forgotten their base which helped get them there...bean counters & marketers seem to be running things...apparently they want to be "stylish" & they want their tools to appeal to just those who can afford to pay high prices...It is very hard to pull the trigger on new tools, when you do not know what you are getting...the cutters are an example...why should I buy defective cutters that will not work properly or cause my tool to seize up? LTG seems to proceeding like a boat without a rudder...they are reacting instead of acting & innovating...
Sad to see, I bought one the original Leatherman Pocket Tools back in the mid 80's I was active duty Air Force I carried and used it daily way before the term EDC became a thing, used that thing for years, working on the jets, using it on my motorcycle and bicycle, camping, etc. Had one on my belt for many years after that. Just my opinion but it's something I see in a lot of industries, cutting back to improve on profit and bottom line at the expense of quality. After I retired I started carrying a SAK in my pocket, I was watching the Jon Gadget Channel and he just put out a video on how he feels Victorinox is getting away from its core products, I'm glad I bought my SAK many years ago.
This is a new issues I have not seen yet, but I've also had nearly 40% of the pliers coming out of the factory unusable (far too tight). The new cutters are significantly worse as well.
My Free P2 has this issue and one of three Skeletools. Not exactly 40% of pliers in my case, but more than acceptable. One of the few things the Free series has going for it is smoothness. Not on my Free P2 it doesn't. So except for the scissors, there is not a single implement I like on it. Being outside the USofA, sending multitools in is not a sensible thing to do. Maybe Victorinox can acquire Leatherman in the future... ;-)
If it explains anything the German machines making thoes pliers were ramped up to try and make more also the source quality went down significantly. In the past 6 years they had 2 large mass exodus if skilled employees 4 to 10 each time taking all that knowledge (fonzi taps jukebox) with them over money. Kershaw Gerber Warren would pay 4 to 10 dollars an hour more.... how is someone supposed to say no?
I received a Leatherman Arc as a gift from my wife who visited the States 3 months ago, I down right refused to buy it here in Europe due to the high cost and past knowledge of their quality control issues but anyways iv used it solid since I got it and to be honest Im still not sure about their pliers design. mine came out of the box nice and smooth but after near 3 months its very stiff now. I will try loosen them back out I'm just a little taken back by this. What Im getting at is the fundamental tool of a plier base multitool is the Pliers! and they still haven't perfected this yet . This may go down like a lead balloon but my opinion is get rid of the replaceable wire cutters and bring back the beefer head. It is why I went back to my Spirt X.
My brand new bond's wire cutters rubbed so bad out of the box that they have dug grooves into each other. So I decided to buy an older used rebar on eBay and it is so smooth and just perfect I'm honestly scared to buy any other new Leatherman
Ive only owned one new leatherman and its by far the least usable, the plyers are sp stiff they give me hand cranps after half an hour of using them, couldnt recommend avoiding new ones more
I love Leatherman, as you do. I think they are the best multitool manufacturer. I have a mix of used and new tools that I have purchased over the years. Fortunately, I haven't had any issues. I love the Bond, Curl, Wave, Surge, Super Tool 300, etc. The Arc is very nice with an improved tool set over the Free P2/P4 Series. I think you should go through the warranty process. Ben Riveria encourages it and through the process they can make revisions and refinements when it comes to your P4 in future manufacturing. Sadly, it comes down to human error in the quality control department before shipment. That can be improved upon almost instantly. The just need to find employees with a passion for the Leatherman brand and multitools. I really hope the employees in quality control take it seriously as anything else and aren't just passing time. They are very fortunate and blessed to work in such a great facility!
I just had my Leatherman Arc break on me, it was one of the retention bars for the lock, i didn’t use it that hard either and even then a tool thats first off expensive as heck, and second its supposed to be high quality.
I recently switched from the supertool to the Surge for work. It’s only been a month but I haven’t had any issues. The scissors are something that surprises me how often I use them. Otherwise it’s a great tool so far.
It's even worse for us folks outside the US , try sending back your defective tool that you've paid way more money for by the way (for example : Charge + Tti is 250 € , Arc is 300 € ! ) Leatherman Europe has it's customer service in Germany , now I thought that was good news given the German workers good reputation, but my experience with them was very much disappointing unfortunately... Another example of a brand that has a very solid loyal fan base that any brand would dream of , and they're loosing them by alienating them tryna pander to the " regular customers " who could give 2 sh*ts , and by slacking off on QC and customer experience... Bravo guys , that's how you run a legacy company to the ground 👍
Bought one of the first Leatherman Tools back in the early 80s. Still in good condition but is retired now as it is irreplaceable. Spent most of its life in the car or ute (pickup) as an emergency tool. Also have a Leatherman Micra from 1996 that is still in use. Much later I got a Rebar and a Crunch. These were made about 2012 and 2013 from the date stamps. They were a few years old when I got them. They were hiding in plain sight in a shop. They are well made and I am very happy with them. Last purchase from Leatherman was about two and a half years ago when I got 3 knifeless Rebars as gifts. These looked OK but not as good as the earlier ones but the pliers were incredibly stiff and it took a lot of work and time to get them usable. I will hold onto what I have but do mot plan to buy more. For a long time they were the pinnacle of multitools but not so much now.
I watched a tour of a Victorinox facility in Switzerland a while back, and appearantly they have a person open and close every single tool on every single product at least once before its packaged, thats really impressive and made me respect the consistancy of SAKs even more. That being said, when I served I was issued a Victorinox Spirit (dont remember what version), and that thing was so bad that it kinda scared me off the platform forever. I remember thinking hey, the price is almost the same, why not just get Leatherman that is known to be good? Now though, im starting to see the same issues with Leatherman as you do. Plier pivots being so tight they are borderline unusable, "premium" knife steels not being heat treated properly, play in tools, the infamous wire cutter thing etc etc. At this point im actually starting to look for alternatives, and as someone whose been defending Leatherman over knockoffs quite alot in the past... Im actually starting to think why not just get a daicamping or something. Im getting 30 bucks worth of tool and QA anyway right? Or maybe its time to give Victorinox another shot?
I got sick of breaking Leathermans and I switched to a Swiss Tool. Under the same conditions, the Swiss Tool feels like it’s impossible to break and the quality is outstanding. The tools are harder to get out than the Wave but honestly it’s worth it because I know my tool will probably outlive me
recently decided to get a multitool as my field of work is perfectly suited to benefit from one. I started with the surge after alot of research. I ended up returning it after 1 week of hard use as the plier head would get stuck anytime I cut small gauge wire with it and would be unusable until pulled apart with both hands. I ended up getting a SAK Cybertool L. The finish is leagues better and although the plier based part of the SAK is smaller -- it suits me perfectly(Fire alarm/low voltage tech). Cant see myself trying leatherman again.
I got a surge a few years ago and within a week the detent on the plier handles was gone. Instead of snapping into place when opened it just slides open and closed with just a little constant friction. There is also play in the plier head that allows the wire cutters to not always contact each other. The scissors have quite a bit of play. And the plier head rubs a lot on the handles. My awl and bit exchanger do have some play. It has been working fine for years but those issues are present.
Got a V2 Wave in 2013. That's been so good I decided to get a spare. Ordered a V3 Wave plus 2023, and it had a lot of problems. Mostly play on the outer tools. Replacement the same. So got a refund. Even my 2015 Wingman that cost around £30 feels better made than Leathermans current flagships.
My roommate actually works at Leatherman. I have a massive collection of Leatherman's and I can tell you, there are so many flaws in each one because he just gives them to me. If you send in your tool, it usually ends up in someone like myself's collection or pocket. Very rarely, do you get sent back the same tool? Go ahead and test it yourself by scratching it on a specific area of the Leatherman. Don't make it too noticeable so they can see it. You wont get back the same tool. Shits been going down hill for the last 4 years. The talk over the last two weeks has been about raising prices one of the bean counters Let it be Known as a corporate party to a couple of the engineer guys that they will be raising prices once again. Only reason the crunch came back for a short period of time was one of the engineers that worked there is the one who spilled the beans about it going bye, Bye then they brought it back and then they discontinued it. They had planned to do it a 2 years earlier, but because of him leaking the information they didn't want people to know what was happening at Leatherman. It was all over the internet that they were going to discontinue the crunch but they did not want the public to know what was happening at leatherman. Huge fights were taking place lots of people were pissed off. Anyway, Cheers, my friend. That guy should have had a huge following on his RUclips channel. But I don't remember what it was for all I know Leatherman told him to take it down. They like to threaten employees with all kinds of nasty things, including lawsuits.
umm, wow...did my video literally delay the crunch 2 years??? sick! hahaha. (EDIT: I should have said, Ben and I. We both made videos about the same time)
I and Dominic had both made videos regarding the discontinuation of the Crunch. A Leatherman rep actually posted a comment on that video saying they were not discontinuing the model, and had supply chain issues. It felt disingenuous to me at the time. Check the pinned comment. ruclips.net/video/zNd2UUMN8As/видео.htmlsi=M8KF_EbQei4PAR_u
LM sounds a lot like the way Marvel Studios operates. Unnecessarily secretive and caring more about “spoilers” than the actual quality of their product. Not really surprising that both companies are going downhill. Misplaced priorities
As I no longer work for them I can say my peice now but yes hr threatens your job and lawsuits if they don't like what you post or say on social media.
checked right away my black Surge, same problem. but its very easy to fix , just screw a little, maybe a quater of a rotation with 2x torx10 with that hole in the middle. same black Surge got the faulty cutters.
I'm not surprised that this happened at all. After what I saw in the Arc, I knew their quality was on the way down. Thank God that my Super Tool 300 is one of the last flawless tools Leatherman made
I know from inside information because of my roommate working there for the last 10 plus years that they let most of the quality control inspection people go a few years back. They cut staff big time Thinking it wasn't a big issue, but it really has been a lot of product has been coming back for defects, but for some reason corporate doesn't really care. Originally before, before 2020, they didn't have as many products coming back. But now they are flooded with products coming back. So they are getting ready to raise the prices once again. Atleast that's a rumor going on here in Portland at Leatherman HQ
@@thisfishsmellsgood4084I just ordered a Surge to keep on the bike and it has the same rattly lock issue that Ben's Surge has. Apparently they won't fix that either since Ben sent his Surge in for warranty and it came back with everything fixed except the effed up lock
Sad to say but I've had similar experiences with recent Leathermans. Bought a new surge for my son and the interior tools all have the play you demonstrate in the video. That's not the case with my 8yr old surge or 10 yr old charge. I wouldn't mind the price increases if the quality stayed the same, but it's clear that's not the case anynore.
Just got the black version with the same thing. Sending back for a replacement. Hoping to get a better one. It’s a shame there isn’t a good way to get in there to bend that tension bar. That would fix it.
Your video provides an objective appraisal of recent defects, but it's worryingly informative. After much research, my first ever Leatherman (Surge) is arriving on Saturday. I can only hope it works properly. It is distressing how rapidly a few snot-nosed accountants, just beginning to wear long trousers, can destroy a company reputation built over years of devotion to quality.
Last two leathermans I have purchased new have been terrible out of the box. A P2 and today was a wave plus. The inside tools on the scissor are so loose they flop and rattle around. When closing the pliers it can cause it to bind and makes it super difficult to open since it’s aligned. So frustrating, strongly considering a gerber center drive. Years ago I had a gerber 600 and had no issues with it.
I have to say I'm a huge Leatherman fan but I can see what you mean by the quality control i've had a similar issue last year I bought a leatherman surge brand new after shipping and everything it cost me 178 bucks When it got to me I think maybe two or three months went by and I noticed the plier head was messed up It was wiggling in every direction I was really disappointed I did send it in it took them two months to get it back to me they sent me a new one instead of fixing the old one and the new one I have to say I'm not very happy with It has that wiggle in the bit exchanger I think the handle slightly bit not quite right And they put those new wire cutters on it with the rounded piece down on it and I have already broke them I need to replace them I just haven't yet yeah I'm a little upset with Leatherman myself they need to get a handle on the quality control and I'm just not impressed with the art just had to throw that in there the magna cut blades nice but it's not a heavy duty tool I don't like the magnets I know someone that bought the ark and it just the handle bends when you bear down on it it's just not a great tool for working people But I agree their quality control has gone to crap they need to get a handle on it or they are going to get left in the dirt
I had the same experion as you with my first buying the Surge. One of the safety lock wiggIing & ratlling. I return back to the seller & get another new one.
Okay -this makes sense now... I bought one of the reissue Juice models from 2 years ago, and it felt like crap out of the box...I was able to get it running a bit more smoothly, but it’s not even close to my old Waves or Charges in terms of tolerances. I jut figured it was because the Juice is a cheaper model than the Wave or Charge. I’ve been considering getting a Surge for a few years, but I think I’ll just make do with my old Waves/Charges for the time being.
I’ve had two bad Leatherman multis from the factory. My first MUT was screwed up and replaced under warranty - the one I received has been absolutely first rate. And my first Arc was screwed up and replaced under warranty. The one I have now is great. Considering how many Leatherman multitools I’ve owned, that isn’t bad. But I agree with you sir, they can and should do significantly better.
Agree, Just bought 10 different models for job site. 2x i had to send back to Leatherman straight after pulling them out of the box. That's 20% or 1 in 5. That's way to much / high failure rate.
It's happening all over the American manufacturing industry. Case, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc. They all became the It Girls and then got complacent. Rona didn't help but these issues were going on before that. The point of buying American is that you're supporting skilled domestic labor and strengthening the supply chain. It's devolving to just be a tax for the three little letters of U.S.A. stamped on a tool. I know with Spyderco prices have rose twice the rate of inflation. Some Benchmade models are worse than that.
After researching and waiting for new models to come out from LM I went with a Victorinox Swisstool Spirit. Got it on sale for under 100 bucks on Amazon. Fit and finish is great and I have been using it often for projects around the house. It is also light enough for me to drop in the coin pocket if I don't want to use the sheath. With the price of multitools now being as expensive as Dewalt power tools, I have moved on from collecting them. I am spending my money to fill in my toolchest.
I did the same thing you did and I have no regrets. I got sick of Leathermans breaking on me. My Swiss tools and Spirits have never faltered under the same working conditions
I have exactly one Leatherman, a Wave Plus that's about 6 years old and does everything I need. It's been fantastic and I see no need to buy another when this one performs so well.
Use to work for them 3 to 4 years ago and I personally saw the quality go down. I use to run saw blades on wave surge ect... also did the files. The spec said + or - .0005 to .001 on the processes. The parts they said were good enough was 5tho to 10 tho out wildly off... check the saw blades looking over the end of the teeth if you see snow caps or square ends that's a bad blade but was acceptable. In the deburring process they doubled the cycle count and parts were rough out of spec but good enough for them... take it from me they are moving COO overseas in parts. They pay garbage too hard to keep even the lowest quality of employees. The special tools like arc and garage tools were hand picked teams to assemble them with the best employees. Level 1s are doing alot of thoes issues you ate finding. Good core values but they don't need to let skilled people walk out the door over 1 to 3 dollars an hour!
I got my first Leatherman when I was about 17 years old I've been carrying one on my side or in my pocket ever since I am now 54 but I will tell you that I feel that some quality issues do need to be addressed For example I have sent my surgeon 3 tibecause the all breaks where the hole is this last time the flatblade also broke using the way I was supposed to to pull out a screw I have decided not to send it in because I use this tool daily and don't want to go without it so I have taken to buying parts online and repairing it or making modifications on my own
Good video, I think the only thing you missed was mentioning the dates in the handles for the 2 poor quality ones & the good one. I'd be curious to know; my 2020 LM Charge+ locks in well as your main Surge but the Arc had yet to be released. Are the other 2 models post-Arc release? My QC Issue(s): I bought a Signal & returned it because the lock was *totally* busted, I'm not even sure how that made it past QC. I wish I checked the date codes but I had completely forgotten. I've got 4-5 LM tools & exchanged a Free K2 folding knife because the 1st one had a chewed up blade.
Last January, I purchased one of the Leatherman Charges with the orange G10 handle scales that were discontinued and being sold at closeout prices. Unfortunately, the one I purchased had a very, very dull blade, touted for the more premium S30V steel, that ripped paper during my cut test and had a visibly uneven grind. I could even see and feel, with my fingernail, a roll along the edge. All of the blades and implements had very stiff action and felt like a much cheaper knife. At least one of the outer tools rubbed against the scales when closing, as I recall. returned it, but was unable to order a replacement as they had all sold out very quickly. It's a shame as i really liked the tool selection and look and feel of the G10 scales. It was a beautiful orange color in my opinion. I was very disappointed with the experience. I'm still not sure why they chose to discontinue that model as they semed to be very popular. I had purchased a Victorinox Swisstool Spirit X, at one point, but found the detent on the blade and tools to be too strong. I absolutely tore up my fingernails when opening them. So I returned it. However, I recently jumped on the opportunity to purchase one at a terrific discount figuring I could live with the strong detent at that price. This one has been incredibly smooth in the deployment of every single tool. It has a somewhat strong detent, but not like the first one. The tolerances and finish are excellent, especially in comparison to my experience with every Leatherman I have had in hand and have owned. It feels like a premium tool. I do wish the scissors opened more fully. I also would have preferred the MX Clip with the one hand opening blade (I watched yiur videos on that model) but it is significantly higher in price. I am actually quite happy with my purchase. I can't justify paying the high price for the Leatherman Arc. I also don't care much for the aesthetics.
I love all my Leatherman tools but am leaning towards Victorinox for the next purchase. I use my one Wave (EDC) multiple times a day on the job and bar the wire cutters it's awesome. Based on my SAK experience I'd like to try their multi tools out.
Do it, you won’t regret it. I honestly like the tools selection on the Wave better than anything Victorinox has to offer but the Victorinox multi tools are indestructible
I bought a new ARC and I had to send it in for replacement as there was welding/milling slag inside the lock on the side with the bit exchanger - it would not open smoothly and would stop at an angle before you could push it all the way open. They replaced the tool now issue and the new one is fine, but still, should not have left the shop in that condition.
I carried a Skeletool RX for a while and never had a need to use the pliers. The first time I used them one of the jaws broke off, like while I was just setting them, before I tightened my grip. I mean I like to think I’m strong and all but give me a break. Haha. I finally sent them in and asked for something else because I was so mad and even hurt . Like, I was foolishly relying on that as my pliers for emergencies at my ambulance job. The really concerning thing about that is what about the glass breaker bit? What if the bit holder on that is not strong enough to use it even once? Because that is not something you can test. Then I got a Wingman, and the scissors was busted out of the box. Still don’t have an Arc, although I anticipate that will be good. Also. I shouldn’t act like there weren’t good Leatherman tools I got, too. It’s just that you open it up, you’re so excited, and it’s broken. The let down is too hard!
I love my Wave + still even though it’s had many issues and had to be sent in to warranty multiple times. I have had so many issues with my other tools. Some being completely misaligned, others having tool play. The couple that I haven’t had major issues with has been my Curl and my Skeletool. My Arc seems alright and my Bolster and Wingman are okay, with my wingman’s pliers being higher on one side. There are more issues that I can talk about here. I wont be getting any more leathermans at this point. They were so amazing at one point. Why is it that many American companies quality is shooting down and their prices up.
I have 6 or 7 different models with no issues. I'm hoping that since Leatherman raised the bar enough now with the Arc that other companies (Victorinox etc) will show some advancement as well. Arc just shows that people are willing to fork over the $$!
That’s why I was always afraid of buying a Free now the Leatherman Arc I like but the cutters need to be fixed. The Charge Plus and Wave I think are great but they need to change it up to separate them from all the clones and get a newer patent for them. The Surge the older ones are better than the newer versions. Also once you start using plastic in the multi tools will only lead to problems. Just my opinions.
No issues on my new surge thankfully. It was my first brand new letherman it would have been extremely disappointing to have to send it back in imideatly.
my black&silver Surge is fine. the newer black its not. when the Arc cutters problem was a subject on yt i checked the black Surge, it has the same problem. i solved it easy, ordered 2 set of EOD cutters and replaced on both my Surges. after seeing this video i checked right away and the black has the same issue. i didnt noticed, i dont use it at all, its a backup tool for when the silver-black will die. ill try to screw that joint harder.
I have the exact same issue on my silver Surge while its not the case on BO one. It seems to be a hit or miss lately. It works fine but clacking sound is irritating.
Would you draw a relationship between more complicated tools now vs more simplified hence more robust tools in the past? Ie more parts more chances to break one of these?
Iv sent back a P2 and a P4 due to the plier issue. Just got an arc, but im worried to really use it incase it breaks it just doesnt feel as solid as my wave or surge which are older. I know the wave and surge are solid but the free series feels flimsy and loose. Doubt ill buy any new leatherman again unless stuff changes. Stick to my old stuff or vic tools.
I have been disappointed with Leatherman’s direction as well but decided to pick up a Surge over the Christmas holidays. The tool action feels gritty to me which I attributed to being new. It has improved some over the past 4 months but I would not call it good. The bit holder does have movement and there is a rattle when shook though I have yet to identify the source as the spring. I can’t say I’m upset but it has put me off of Leatherman considering the price . It makes me wonder if this magnetic architecture is being used to cover up sloppy tolerances which is now seeping into their mainstay products.🤔
The only problem I have ever had with Leatherman was the Free T2 and my only real issue with it was the use of plastic inside the sleeve where the blades rest. I'm not a fan of that. Otherwise, all the fit and finish has been great. Ever my old SuperTool that I inherited from my dad over 20 years ago.
i have the same problem with my leatherman surge and my new wave just didn't feel right with all it's rattling and unfinished edges and being in south Africa its very hard to send it in and it is more expensive which makes it less worth buying (3113 rands is = to 173 Dollas)
there is one thing that is wrong with leatherman, the dont want to make the best multitool, But the want to MAKE THE MOST MONEY and that is their downfall
I recently lost my charge TTi so i bought a newer one and the quality is significantly lower. The grind on the s30v blade is uneven, it came dull and the pliers themselves are incredibly stiff.
Had the same issue with the wave that I got under warranty sent it back they actually lost it and I had to bug them to get it replaced and send it out. It took 7 weeks to get one back and the 1st time I used it to hold a bolt head the pliers broke, looked like bad metal like a pot metal where it broke. Sent it back and they sent me a new one and I sold it. Victorinox is my go to of choice now. It’s a shame cause I really like leatherman better.
I feel the same way. I really wanted Leatherman to work and I actually like the tool selection better on the Wave but I eventually got tired of sending in tools for warranty. It has been 4 years now with Victorinox and my tools oil the same as I got them under very heavy use. They are indestructible
Well, it seems I’m buying the Victorinox Spirit cause it has a perfect quality control. I’m not risking hundreds of dollars for this crab. Thanks everyone for their commentaries.
I find leatherman tools to be poor quality for the price you pay. Under warranty i had to return a juice S2 because of an issue with the points of the pliers not lining up, two PS4's because both times the spring on the scissors snapped off, one style PS because the spring on the scissors snapped off, and one juice B2 because the scales weren't tight and made a creaking sound every time you gripped them to open a blade. I also owned a leatherman crunch and the Philips screwdriver started grinding away after only a few uses like some cheap pound shop screwdriver. I find Victorinox to be a far superior quality and I've had no issues with any of their tools
This was also my experience. I broke Leathermans so much that I finally had enough and jumped onto the Victorinox train. I have no regrets. My Victorinox multi tools will outlive me and I am sure of it - they are indestructible and are worth sacrificing in a few areas in order to have a tool that won’t break in you when you need it to work for you
I’ve got a knifeless rebar coming from KnifeCenter this week so I’m hoping that that one’s gonna be decent quality otherwise gonna have to avoid Leatherman. I’ll try to remember to reply back to this post with how it is.
Yeah the knifeless rebar I got was terrible. I'm a fairly strong guy and just opening and closing the pliers took actual effort. One handle's tools were fine to open but the other handle's tool are very gritty and difficult to pull out to the point you need a tool to safely pull the clump open. I cleaned and lubed the tool and that helped slightly. I ended up putting the plier head in my vice and using a breaker bar to help open and close the handles to work them over for a bit. That helped a tiny amount but it's still very difficult to open and close the tool. I'm going to return it and just be done with leatherman because they've just gone to shit. Every single victorinox tool or knife I've owned has been flawless and I've never gave gerber or sog a try.
@@fivevs1I bought a knife less rebar for my 7 year old so that they could have their first multi tool. Same exact thing as you - my daughter couldn’t even open the tool all the way because the pivots were so stiff. I should have returned it right away but I tried putting every type of oil imaginable to hope that it got better but it never did. She got a Victorinox instead and although it grieves me, I’m done with Leatherman.
@@waholoopesorry74 yeah I ended up getting a Victorinox spirit X and just saying the hell with Leatherman. The quality on the Victorinox it’s just night and day better. I have no regrets. Frankly, at this point, I don’t even understand how Leatherman is still in business.
I recently bought a Chinese copy. I can honestly say the Chinese copy is at least as good as my 6 month old Wave+. My Wave+ plier head broke in half while I was trying to remove the joining link spring on a pushbike chain. Now my China copy cost me £35 and my Wave+ was around £120 (if I remember correctly). Am I going to invest in another Leatherman now, I honestly doubt it. Well not unless I start seeing thing improve. Just my opinion but I think LM rely way to heavily on their (very good) warranty.
Exactly. It isn’t a good thing that you hear everyone talk about their warranty. I would rather have a tool that doesn’t break so that I don’t have to use the warranty!
Have seen a video one or two weeks ago where a content creator lamentated that Victorinox is not innovating enough and bringing enough new htings out like Leatherman does. And even in the comment section he got overwhelming support for that argument. Then and now my opinion is quality control is more important than innovation. At least Victorinox has not sacrificed quality control on the altar of innovation. I have two Leatherman Chrage ALX (so quite some years old) and for what i use them they are great.(especially due to the bit holders and the ratchet i got myself) But i am not in the slightest interested in one of the magnet models, because of the magnets.
I don't want to sound like I'm arguing innovation over quality control, but as someone who's been in manufacturing for over a decade I feel companies can really have both if they're patient with their new product development.
Went from my trusty old 98 Swisstool back to a older wave (that was fine) then to a newer wave with 2 handed blade because of legal reasons and the quality was horrible, sharp edges everywhere, tension all wrong, one of the springs was stuck/broken (a bit like yours), no big deal i thought, got a replacement from amazon that was nearly as bad...no i have 2 new Swisstools and wont bother with Leatherman at all (my first mt was a charge tti that i sold, had its own issues like scraping file on the handles for example).
Quality sucks all across the board! Ive seen it and believe Covid was the cause! Manufactures are shoving crap out the door, needing sales, trying to recover. Thanks for sharing and have a great day! Steve
I'm kinda shocked a western manufacturer (assumedly) is so oblivious to quality control. At least in my country engineering schools are filled with talk about how much quality costs when you're not in control of it, not only in physical losses but also image. Like the first thing you need to get a control over when you're founding manufacturing is quality of your process. If you aren't able to show where your quality is, you're just doing stuff, you don't have a plan or a strategy, you can't manage your company's processes at any level at that point when you don't know and can't meet criteria. And even worse, if you're not doing it well enough on the first go, you're doing it twice and adding extra costs, you've essentially thrown all that work and money into waste. Japanese learned this all the way back in the 60's when American industry professionals visited and helped them kick off their manufacturing industry. Now everyone knows and uses Lean, Kanban etc etc that were the results of that. Americans taught them the ideas and somehow now forgot it.
Hi Ben, new subscriber. I was looking to buy a Leatherman for outdoor use only like camping, bushcrafting, edc. Another fellow on YT recommended The Surge since he noticed a few had them on the show " Alone" or something of that sort. Im not Rambo lol. But if i was what would your Leatherman choice be. I had no idea there are that many. I like the Surge and the file on it. But fir the price and what i just seen has me skeptical. Ty for the video and ill watch more.
I have both (Surge and Signal). If you are an AVID camper. Signal is great and minimalist. If you are a twice a year camper, get a Surge, better for all needs daily. Have fun!
I wonder how much business Leatherman can afford to lose before they will actually improve QC ? I was thinking of getting a new Wave or charge until I heard all the problems with the wire cutters. To me that is one of the main reasons for having a pliers based multi tool. I am sure Victorinox won’t mind getting the business Leatherman is pissing away.
Cost is high, and quality isn't there for that price. I've gone to bilbury tools which are cheaper and not bad, plus I like that I can use 1/4 bits which are readily available. Don't think I'll be spending 260 for new magna cut. I can get 5 tools for 1 Leatherman
I really hope this is just some 'dark ages' for LM and american industry and that they'll recover in the near future. There's a lot of reasons to fail or even disappear: The pandemics, China is heavily subsidizing steel and everything made of steel, weak economy, premium products in general are performing badly in terms of sales and quality. I've heard ppl complaining similar things about cars, some people rant about new Milwaukee drills being shit. We could be talking for hours
For me, I think Leatherman lost their way after the original pst and original wave (version 1). I have owned and modified many, including my wave, and I know the newer waves were popular. But as a useful quality tool, I think in today's environment these are more of am expensive "fashion" accessory. For practical everyday use I have reverted to just carrying a SAK. I understand everyone else's mileage may vary,
I buy every original wave I come across. I now have enough of them and parts to last me the rest of my life. 👍 I am a power user and literally wear them out so I just rebuild them with my collected spares.
Leatherman needs a make your own mulit-tool!!! Choose a frame and the tools you want on it!!! Also, the costs of new tools are way too high!!! I have a Surge, Wave+, and original Raptor!!! Don't see me replacing any time soon!!! My actual knife options are a No. 9 Opinel, and a Decepticon!!! Leatherman, step it up or you will end up like Gerber!!!
This couldn't be better timed.. The scissors Spring on my Leatherman Surge just snapped completely off.. This isn't a hard used tool it mostly sits in a drawer. There's no reason for this to have happened like use or abuse. Really getting let down by Leatherman and their quality control these days. Maybe it's time to look at different options.
It is hard to pay $40 for that kind of quality. I will stick to my Victorinox, Knipex and Klein Stuff for now. I need a real Made in USA product quality😁
Right now every company doesnt matter which one.. are trying to save on manufacturing costs and cut cirners in order to save every little dollar they can
Leatherman trying to "replace" the Wave is the multitool equivalent of Porsche trying to replace the 911. Remember the 928? It was a great car but no one but Porsche thought that was a possible 911 replacement. 928 is gone for 30 years now while the 911 soldiers on. At least I can afford a Leatherman. 😂
I feel that Leatherman is flirting too much with the high-end knife community. I feel that a Leatherman is a tool more than it is a knife. Honestly, I would like to see Leatherman come out with multiple toolsets on the wave+ geared to specific trades.
It should have never been plastic in the first place 🙄 If they needed it non magnetic then use alloy... Victorinox are going cheap too, the new alox models have aluminum inner dividers.... I wonder if Leatherman lost a lot of long term staff over COVID and are using short term contract workers now ?
I’ve loved Victorinox in the past more than Leatherman or the others, but it’s not looking too promising for them either. Jon Gadget made a good video recently critiquing their shift the past few years moving away from a quality tools company towards an overpriced “lifestyle brand”
Ben does a darn good job when I was there and tim had his own office and came in once a week and engraved peoles personal Leathermans by hand. It comes down to money.
I'm just glad you said it and not me..I would not have been so..controlled.
That's half the fun of your videos though😅
it happened to me in my surge got it 7 months ago brand new the same exact problem and at the same time when I bought the surge I bought a brand new signal there is nothing to complain about the signal it works perfectly its just the surge with this issue but the other tools works perfectly
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The thing I always appreciate so much about your videos is that it's always clear you're a working grunt who actually uses tools for a living. Nothing against the "EDC" crowd, they're just as entitled to their opinions as well. Being able to see these tools through the eyes of another knuckle-buster is just a real treat. I can't think of anything you've ever said or pointed out that wasn't also my experience using these as a professional maintenance guy. Keep it coming! Also, you turned me on to Swiss army knives. So my wallet curses you!
💦🍆😮😯😳🤥
Glad to see your back, got tired of looking at reruns
Sorry for the long wait.
Where did you see his back?
I wish prices were better
I live in Portland and I can tell you that working at Leatherman is a s*** show. My roommate has been doing it for 12 years. This guy's video is on point. They are already talking about raising the prices of the tools again and the folks that were doing the quality control work have been let go for the most part. A few years back, they cut staff big time. I really wish that somebody had made a video about it, but maybe they didn't know.
Cheers
@@thisfishsmellsgood4084 I live not far in Albany
I would be interested in hearing more about that.
@@thisfishsmellsgood4084 sounds like the same thing with Boeing where they went from prioritizing making quality products to prioritizing stock performance.
That's the BIG problem with finance people with no relevant manufacturing experience. They see experienced people as only a high cost.
@@Salty_Ballsyour bigotry has nothing to do with multi-tools. It’s called late-stage capitalism
I fear Leatherman is going down the same path that a I saw a few companies go down when I worked in the oilfield.
The founder would build up a goid reputation, then retire or step back and their kids or the new managers would run it into the ground by replacing experienced guys with newer, less experienced hires. Quality would suffer, etc.
Much like what is happening with Boeing with how they replaced the engineers in management who focused on making well engineered, quality aircraft, with finance people who focused on maximizing stock price.
Indeed! It takes a lifetime to build up a stellar reputation. It takes a very short time to ruin it all. This is unfortunately the case of many brands nowadays. Money and greed. Sad but true.
Hey, Ben...glad you are back!😊 I have said that LTG has been in decline, especially in QC & in decisions like canceling the Crunch...they seem to have forgotten their base which helped get them there...bean counters & marketers seem to be running things...apparently they want to be "stylish" & they want their tools to appeal to just those who can afford to pay high prices...It is very hard to pull the trigger on new tools, when you do not know what you are getting...the cutters are an example...why should I buy defective cutters that will not work properly or cause my tool to seize up? LTG seems to proceeding like a boat without a rudder...they are reacting instead of acting & innovating...
i got a crunch that was produced in 2021, the pin vise was off 2 mm and the handle cannot close snug without latching.....
Sad to see, I bought one the original Leatherman Pocket Tools back in the mid 80's I was active duty Air Force I carried and used it daily way before the term EDC became a thing, used that thing for years, working on the jets, using it on my motorcycle and bicycle, camping, etc.
Had one on my belt for many years after that.
Just my opinion but it's something I see in a lot of industries, cutting back to improve on profit and bottom line at the expense of quality.
After I retired I started carrying a SAK in my pocket, I was watching the Jon Gadget Channel and he just put out a video on how he feels Victorinox is getting away from its core products, I'm glad I bought my SAK many years ago.
This is a new issues I have not seen yet, but I've also had nearly 40% of the pliers coming out of the factory unusable (far too tight). The new cutters are significantly worse as well.
First I had seen of it too. And I absolutely agree regarding the cutters. Glad I have a large stock of 154 CM.
@@txtoolcribHello, Ben...where can we get 154 CM cutters if the ones from LTG are not reliable? Thanks!
My Free P2 has this issue and one of three Skeletools. Not exactly 40% of pliers in my case, but more than acceptable. One of the few things the Free series has going for it is smoothness. Not on my Free P2 it doesn't. So except for the scissors, there is not a single implement I like on it.
Being outside the USofA, sending multitools in is not a sensible thing to do.
Maybe Victorinox can acquire Leatherman in the future... ;-)
If it explains anything the German machines making thoes pliers were ramped up to try and make more also the source quality went down significantly. In the past 6 years they had 2 large mass exodus if skilled employees 4 to 10 each time taking all that knowledge (fonzi taps jukebox) with them over money. Kershaw Gerber Warren would pay 4 to 10 dollars an hour more.... how is someone supposed to say no?
I just got a Leatherman Surge about 2 weeks ago. I'm having the same issues
Sorry, I got mine around 2014, a gift from my wife, and it is still flawless!!!
@@tmapes1989 Same here, batch 2013 and minimal wiggle.
@@tmapes1989why bother sharing
I received a Leatherman Arc as a gift from my wife who visited the States 3 months ago, I down right refused to buy it here in Europe due to the high cost and past knowledge of their quality control issues but anyways iv used it solid since I got it and to be honest Im still not sure about their pliers design. mine came out of the box nice and smooth but after near 3 months its very stiff now. I will try loosen them back out I'm just a little taken back by this. What Im getting at is the fundamental tool of a plier base multitool is the Pliers! and they still haven't perfected this yet . This may go down like a lead balloon but my opinion is get rid of the replaceable wire cutters and bring back the beefer head. It is why I went back to my Spirt X.
My brand new bond's wire cutters rubbed so bad out of the box that they have dug grooves into each other. So I decided to buy an older used rebar on eBay and it is so smooth and just perfect I'm honestly scared to buy any other new Leatherman
Ive only owned one new leatherman and its by far the least usable, the plyers are sp stiff they give me hand cranps after half an hour of using them, couldnt recommend avoiding new ones more
I love Leatherman, as you do. I think they are the best multitool manufacturer. I have a mix of used and new tools that I have purchased over the years. Fortunately, I haven't had any issues. I love the Bond, Curl, Wave, Surge, Super Tool 300, etc. The Arc is very nice with an improved tool set over the Free P2/P4 Series. I think you should go through the warranty process. Ben Riveria encourages it and through the process they can make revisions and refinements when it comes to your P4 in future manufacturing. Sadly, it comes down to human error in the quality control department before shipment. That can be improved upon almost instantly. The just need to find employees with a passion for the Leatherman brand and multitools. I really hope the employees in quality control take it seriously as anything else and aren't just passing time. They are very fortunate and blessed to work in such a great facility!
I just had my Leatherman Arc break on me, it was one of the retention bars for the lock, i didn’t use it that hard either and even then a tool thats first off expensive as heck, and second its supposed to be high quality.
Thanks for sharing. I've been on the fence about buying an Arc - they don't appear to have worked out the manufacturing kinks yet.
I recently switched from the supertool to the Surge for work. It’s only been a month but I haven’t had any issues. The scissors are something that surprises me how often I use them. Otherwise it’s a great tool so far.
It's even worse for us folks outside the US , try sending back your defective tool that you've paid way more money for by the way (for example : Charge + Tti is 250 € , Arc is 300 € ! )
Leatherman Europe has it's customer service in Germany , now I thought that was good news given the German workers good reputation, but my experience with them was very much disappointing unfortunately...
Another example of a brand that has a very solid loyal fan base that any brand would dream of , and they're loosing them by alienating them tryna pander to the " regular customers " who could give 2 sh*ts , and by slacking off on QC and customer experience...
Bravo guys , that's how you run a legacy company to the ground 👍
Bought one of the first Leatherman Tools back in the early 80s. Still in good condition but is retired now as it is irreplaceable. Spent most of its life in the car or ute (pickup) as an emergency tool. Also have a Leatherman Micra from 1996 that is still in use. Much later I got a Rebar and a Crunch. These were made about 2012 and 2013 from the date stamps. They were a few years old when I got them. They were hiding in plain sight in a shop. They are well made and I am very happy with them. Last purchase from Leatherman was about two and a half years ago when I got 3 knifeless Rebars as gifts. These looked OK but not as good as the earlier ones but the pliers were incredibly stiff and it took a lot of work and time to get them usable. I will hold onto what I have but do mot plan to buy more. For a long time they were the pinnacle of multitools but not so much now.
I watched a tour of a Victorinox facility in Switzerland a while back, and appearantly they have a person open and close every single tool on every single product at least once before its packaged, thats really impressive and made me respect the consistancy of SAKs even more. That being said, when I served I was issued a Victorinox Spirit (dont remember what version), and that thing was so bad that it kinda scared me off the platform forever. I remember thinking hey, the price is almost the same, why not just get Leatherman that is known to be good?
Now though, im starting to see the same issues with Leatherman as you do. Plier pivots being so tight they are borderline unusable, "premium" knife steels not being heat treated properly, play in tools, the infamous wire cutter thing etc etc. At this point im actually starting to look for alternatives, and as someone whose been defending Leatherman over knockoffs quite alot in the past... Im actually starting to think why not just get a daicamping or something. Im getting 30 bucks worth of tool and QA anyway right? Or maybe its time to give Victorinox another shot?
I got sick of breaking Leathermans and I switched to a Swiss Tool. Under the same conditions, the Swiss Tool feels like it’s impossible to break and the quality is outstanding. The tools are harder to get out than the Wave but honestly it’s worth it because I know my tool will probably outlive me
recently decided to get a multitool as my field of work is perfectly suited to benefit from one. I started with the surge after alot of research. I ended up returning it after 1 week of hard use as the plier head would get stuck anytime I cut small gauge wire with it and would be unusable until pulled apart with both hands. I ended up getting a SAK Cybertool L. The finish is leagues better and although the plier based part of the SAK is smaller -- it suits me perfectly(Fire alarm/low voltage tech). Cant see myself trying leatherman again.
I got a surge a few years ago and within a week the detent on the plier handles was gone. Instead of snapping into place when opened it just slides open and closed with just a little constant friction. There is also play in the plier head that allows the wire cutters to not always contact each other. The scissors have quite a bit of play. And the plier head rubs a lot on the handles. My awl and bit exchanger do have some play. It has been working fine for years but those issues are present.
Got a V2 Wave in 2013. That's been so good I decided to get a spare. Ordered a V3 Wave plus 2023, and it had a lot of problems. Mostly play on the outer tools. Replacement the same. So got a refund. Even my 2015 Wingman that cost around £30 feels better made than Leathermans current flagships.
My roommate actually works at Leatherman. I have a massive collection of Leatherman's and I can tell you, there are so many flaws in each one because he just gives them to me. If you send in your tool, it usually ends up in someone like myself's collection or pocket. Very rarely, do you get sent back the same tool? Go ahead and test it yourself by scratching it on a specific area of the Leatherman. Don't make it too noticeable so they can see it. You wont get back the same tool.
Shits been going down hill for the last 4 years.
The talk over the last two weeks has been about raising prices one of the bean counters Let it be Known as a corporate party to a couple of the engineer guys that they will be raising prices once again.
Only reason the crunch came back for a short period of time was one of the engineers that worked there is the one who spilled the beans about it going bye, Bye then they brought it back and then they discontinued it. They had planned to do it a 2 years earlier, but because of him leaking the information they didn't want people to know what was happening at Leatherman.
It was all over the internet that they were going to discontinue the crunch but they did not want the public to know what was happening at leatherman. Huge fights were taking place lots of people were pissed off.
Anyway, Cheers, my friend.
That guy should have had a huge following on his RUclips channel. But I don't remember what it was for all I know Leatherman told him to take it down. They like to threaten employees with all kinds of nasty things, including lawsuits.
umm, wow...did my video literally delay the crunch 2 years??? sick! hahaha. (EDIT: I should have said, Ben and I. We both made videos about the same time)
I and Dominic had both made videos regarding the discontinuation of the Crunch. A Leatherman rep actually posted a comment on that video saying they were not discontinuing the model, and had supply chain issues. It felt disingenuous to me at the time. Check the pinned comment.
ruclips.net/video/zNd2UUMN8As/видео.htmlsi=M8KF_EbQei4PAR_u
LM sounds a lot like the way Marvel Studios operates. Unnecessarily secretive and caring more about “spoilers” than the actual quality of their product. Not really surprising that both companies are going downhill. Misplaced priorities
Hmm, maybe now they just let things go out of stock forever, like the ratchet driver, instead of formally discontinuing them.
As I no longer work for them I can say my peice now but yes hr threatens your job and lawsuits if they don't like what you post or say on social media.
checked right away my black Surge, same problem. but its very easy to fix , just screw a little, maybe a quater of a rotation with 2x torx10 with that hole in the middle. same black Surge got the faulty cutters.
I'm not surprised that this happened at all. After what I saw in the Arc, I knew their quality was on the way down. Thank God that my Super Tool 300 is one of the last flawless tools Leatherman made
I know from inside information because of my roommate working there for the last 10 plus years that they let most of the quality control inspection people go a few years back. They cut staff big time Thinking it wasn't a big issue, but it really has been a lot of product has been coming back for defects, but for some reason corporate doesn't really care.
Originally before, before 2020, they didn't have as many products coming back. But now they are flooded with products coming back. So they are getting ready to raise the prices once again. Atleast that's a rumor going on here in Portland at Leatherman HQ
@@thisfishsmellsgood4084I just ordered a Surge to keep on the bike and it has the same rattly lock issue that Ben's Surge has. Apparently they won't fix that either since Ben sent his Surge in for warranty and it came back with everything fixed except the effed up lock
Sad to say but I've had similar experiences with recent Leathermans. Bought a new surge for my son and the interior tools all have the play you demonstrate in the video. That's not the case with my 8yr old surge or 10 yr old charge. I wouldn't mind the price increases if the quality stayed the same, but it's clear that's not the case anynore.
Well, at least now I know I’m not just unlucky.
Just got the black version with the same thing. Sending back for a replacement. Hoping to get a better one. It’s a shame there isn’t a good way to get in there to bend that tension bar. That would fix it.
Your video provides an objective appraisal of recent defects, but it's worryingly informative. After much research, my first ever Leatherman (Surge) is arriving on Saturday. I can only hope it works properly. It is distressing how rapidly a few snot-nosed accountants, just beginning to wear long trousers, can destroy a company reputation built over years of devotion to quality.
I’ve seen quite a few good companies, take a huge hit to the reputation for that very reason.
Well said!
Last two leathermans I have purchased new have been terrible out of the box. A P2 and today was a wave plus. The inside tools on the scissor are so loose they flop and rattle around. When closing the pliers it can cause it to bind and makes it super difficult to open since it’s aligned. So frustrating, strongly considering a gerber center drive. Years ago I had a gerber 600 and had no issues with it.
I have to say I'm a huge Leatherman fan but I can see what you mean by the quality control i've had a similar issue last year I bought a leatherman surge brand new after shipping and everything it cost me 178 bucks When it got to me I think maybe two or three months went by and I noticed the plier head was messed up It was wiggling in every direction I was really disappointed I did send it in it took them two months to get it back to me they sent me a new one instead of fixing the old one and the new one I have to say I'm not very happy with It has that wiggle in the bit exchanger I think the handle slightly bit not quite right And they put those new wire cutters on it with the rounded piece down on it and I have already broke them I need to replace them I just haven't yet yeah I'm a little upset with Leatherman myself they need to get a handle on the quality control and I'm just not impressed with the art just had to throw that in there the magna cut blades nice but it's not a heavy duty tool I don't like the magnets I know someone that bought the ark and it just the handle bends when you bear down on it it's just not a great tool for working people But I agree their quality control has gone to crap they need to get a handle on it or they are going to get left in the dirt
I had the same experion as you with my first buying the Surge. One of the safety lock wiggIing & ratlling. I return back to the seller & get another new one.
Love my 2017 blackened Leatherman Surge, with leather sheath.
Okay -this makes sense now...
I bought one of the reissue Juice models from 2 years ago, and it felt like crap out of the box...I was able to get it running a bit more smoothly, but it’s not even close to my old Waves or Charges in terms of tolerances. I jut figured it was because the Juice is a cheaper model than the Wave or Charge.
I’ve been considering getting a Surge for a few years, but I think I’ll just make do with my old Waves/Charges for the time being.
Good evening everyone.
Do the recently produced Rebars also suffer from quality control issues?
Thank you.
I’ve had two bad Leatherman multis from the factory. My first MUT was screwed up and replaced under warranty - the one I received has been absolutely first rate. And my first Arc was screwed up and replaced under warranty. The one I have now is great. Considering how many Leatherman multitools I’ve owned, that isn’t bad. But I agree with you sir, they can and should do significantly better.
Agree,
Just bought 10 different models for job site.
2x i had to send back to Leatherman straight after pulling them out of the box.
That's 20% or 1 in 5.
That's way to much / high failure rate.
It's happening all over the American manufacturing industry. Case, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc. They all became the It Girls and then got complacent. Rona didn't help but these issues were going on before that. The point of buying American is that you're supporting skilled domestic labor and strengthening the supply chain. It's devolving to just be a tax for the three little letters of U.S.A. stamped on a tool. I know with Spyderco prices have rose twice the rate of inflation. Some Benchmade models are worse than that.
After researching and waiting for new models to come out from LM I went with a Victorinox Swisstool Spirit. Got it on sale for under 100 bucks on Amazon. Fit and finish is great and I have been using it often for projects around the house. It is also light enough for me to drop in the coin pocket if I don't want to use the sheath.
With the price of multitools now being as expensive as Dewalt power tools, I have moved on from collecting them. I am spending my money to fill in my toolchest.
I did the same thing you did and I have no regrets. I got sick of Leathermans breaking on me. My Swiss tools and Spirits have never faltered under the same working conditions
I have exactly one Leatherman, a Wave Plus that's about 6 years old and does everything I need. It's been fantastic and I see no need to buy another when this one performs so well.
Use to work for them 3 to 4 years ago and I personally saw the quality go down. I use to run saw blades on wave surge ect... also did the files. The spec said + or - .0005 to .001 on the processes. The parts they said were good enough was 5tho to 10 tho out wildly off... check the saw blades looking over the end of the teeth if you see snow caps or square ends that's a bad blade but was acceptable. In the deburring process they doubled the cycle count and parts were rough out of spec but good enough for them... take it from me they are moving COO overseas in parts. They pay garbage too hard to keep even the lowest quality of employees. The special tools like arc and garage tools were hand picked teams to assemble them with the best employees. Level 1s are doing alot of thoes issues you ate finding. Good core values but they don't need to let skilled people walk out the door over 1 to 3 dollars an hour!
Fyi not disgruntled just telling how it actually was...
I got my first Leatherman when I was about 17 years old I've been carrying one on my side or in my pocket ever since I am now 54 but I will tell you that I feel that some quality issues do need to be addressed For example I have sent my surgeon 3 tibecause the all breaks where the hole is this last time the flatblade also broke using the way I was supposed to to pull out a screw I have decided not to send it in because I use this tool daily and don't want to go without it so I have taken to buying parts online and repairing it or making modifications on my own
Good video, I think the only thing you missed was mentioning the dates in the handles for the 2 poor quality ones & the good one. I'd be curious to know; my 2020 LM Charge+ locks in well as your main Surge but the Arc had yet to be released. Are the other 2 models post-Arc release?
My QC Issue(s): I bought a Signal & returned it because the lock was *totally* busted, I'm not even sure how that made it past QC. I wish I checked the date codes but I had completely forgotten. I've got 4-5 LM tools & exchanged a Free K2 folding knife because the 1st one had a chewed up blade.
Last January, I purchased one of the Leatherman Charges with the orange G10 handle scales that were discontinued and being sold at closeout prices. Unfortunately, the one I purchased had a very, very dull blade, touted for the more premium S30V steel, that ripped paper during my cut test and had a visibly uneven grind. I could even see and feel, with my fingernail, a roll along the edge. All of the blades and implements had very stiff action and felt like a much cheaper knife. At least one of the outer tools rubbed against the scales when closing, as I recall. returned it, but was unable to order a replacement as they had all sold out very quickly. It's a shame as i really liked the tool selection and look and feel of the G10 scales. It was a beautiful orange color in my opinion. I was very disappointed with the experience. I'm still not sure why they chose to discontinue that model as they semed to be very popular.
I had purchased a Victorinox Swisstool Spirit X, at one point, but found the detent on the blade and tools to be too strong. I absolutely tore up my fingernails when opening them. So I returned it. However, I recently jumped on the opportunity to purchase one at a terrific discount figuring I could live with the strong detent at that price. This one has been incredibly smooth in the deployment of every single tool. It has a somewhat strong detent, but not like the first one. The tolerances and finish are excellent, especially in comparison to my experience with every Leatherman I have had in hand and have owned. It feels like a premium tool. I do wish the scissors opened more fully. I also would have preferred the MX Clip with the one hand opening blade (I watched yiur videos on that model) but it is significantly higher in price. I am actually quite happy with my purchase.
I can't justify paying the high price for the Leatherman Arc. I also don't care much for the aesthetics.
I love all my Leatherman tools but am leaning towards Victorinox for the next purchase. I use my one Wave (EDC) multiple times a day on the job and bar the wire cutters it's awesome. Based on my SAK experience I'd like to try their multi tools out.
Do it, you won’t regret it. I honestly like the tools selection on the Wave better than anything Victorinox has to offer but the Victorinox multi tools are indestructible
I bought a new ARC and I had to send it in for replacement as there was welding/milling slag inside the lock on the side with the bit exchanger - it would not open smoothly and would stop at an angle before you could push it all the way open. They replaced the tool now issue and the new one is fine, but still, should not have left the shop in that condition.
Sent in a surge for warranty recently, they sent me a brand new one back. Exactly the same issue, was loose like that on both sides even.
I carried a Skeletool RX for a while and never had a need to use the pliers. The first time I used them one of the jaws broke off, like while I was just setting them, before I tightened my grip. I mean I like to think I’m strong and all but give me a break. Haha. I finally sent them in and asked for something else because I was so mad and even hurt . Like, I was foolishly relying on that as my pliers for emergencies at my ambulance job. The really concerning thing about that is what about the glass breaker bit? What if the bit holder on that is not strong enough to use it even once? Because that is not something you can test.
Then I got a Wingman, and the scissors was busted out of the box.
Still don’t have an Arc, although I anticipate that will be good.
Also. I shouldn’t act like there weren’t good Leatherman tools I got, too. It’s just that you open it up, you’re so excited, and it’s broken. The let down is too hard!
I love my Wave + still even though it’s had many issues and had to be sent in to warranty multiple times. I have had so many issues with my other tools. Some being completely misaligned, others having tool play. The couple that I haven’t had major issues with has been my Curl and my Skeletool. My Arc seems alright and my Bolster and Wingman are okay, with my wingman’s pliers being higher on one side. There are more issues that I can talk about here. I wont be getting any more leathermans at this point. They were so amazing at one point. Why is it that many American companies quality is shooting down and their prices up.
I have the Wingman. Great tool. Use it in industrial environments-nothing broke yet.
I have 6 or 7 different models with no issues. I'm hoping that since Leatherman raised the bar enough now with the Arc that other companies (Victorinox etc) will show some advancement as well. Arc just shows that people are willing to fork over the $$!
Absolute rubbish.
That’s why I was always afraid of buying a Free now the Leatherman Arc I like but the cutters need to be fixed. The Charge Plus and Wave I think are great but they need to change it up to separate them from all the clones and get a newer patent for them. The Surge the older ones are better than the newer versions. Also once you start using plastic in the multi tools will only lead to problems. Just my opinions.
I wanted to buy the surge like in desperately, but now I am not so sure. I have the wave + and rebar, though, which are absolutely great!
No issues on my new surge thankfully. It was my first brand new letherman it would have been extremely disappointing to have to send it back in imideatly.
thanks for this video 🙏
my black&silver Surge is fine.
the newer black its not. when the Arc cutters problem was a subject on yt i checked the black Surge, it has the same problem. i solved it easy, ordered 2 set of EOD cutters and replaced on both my Surges. after seeing this video i checked right away and the black has the same issue. i didnt noticed, i dont use it at all, its a backup tool for when the silver-black will die.
ill try to screw that joint harder.
Any idea if they fixed the knife on the bond? Or does it still slightly open on its own?
I have the exact same issue on my silver Surge while its not the case on BO one. It seems to be a hit or miss lately. It works fine but clacking sound is irritating.
Would you draw a relationship between more complicated tools now vs more simplified hence more robust tools in the past? Ie more parts more chances to break one of these?
Iv sent back a P2 and a P4 due to the plier issue. Just got an arc, but im worried to really use it incase it breaks it just doesnt feel as solid as my wave or surge which are older. I know the wave and surge are solid but the free series feels flimsy and loose. Doubt ill buy any new leatherman again unless stuff changes. Stick to my old stuff or vic tools.
I have been disappointed with Leatherman’s direction as well but decided to pick up a Surge over the Christmas holidays. The tool action feels gritty to me which I attributed to being new. It has improved some over the past 4 months but I would not call it good. The bit holder does have movement and there is a rattle when shook though I have yet to identify the source as the spring. I can’t say I’m upset but it has put me off of Leatherman considering the price . It makes me wonder if this magnetic architecture is being used to cover up sloppy tolerances which is now seeping into their mainstay products.🤔
The only problem I have ever had with Leatherman was the Free T2 and my only real issue with it was the use of plastic inside the sleeve where the blades rest. I'm not a fan of that. Otherwise, all the fit and finish has been great. Ever my old SuperTool that I inherited from my dad over 20 years ago.
i have the same problem with my leatherman surge and my new wave just didn't feel right with all it's rattling and unfinished edges and being in south Africa its very hard to send it in and it is more expensive which makes it less worth buying (3113 rands is = to 173 Dollas)
there is one thing that is wrong with leatherman, the dont want to make the best multitool, But the want to MAKE THE MOST MONEY and that is their downfall
Your comment sums it up perfectly.
I recently lost my charge TTi so i bought a newer one and the quality is significantly lower. The grind on the s30v blade is uneven, it came dull and the pliers themselves are incredibly stiff.
I had to check my Surge production date 2013. And it only has minimal wiggle. Are those two new Surge year 2023-2024??
Had the same issue with the wave that I got under warranty sent it back they actually lost it and I had to bug them to get it replaced and send it out. It took 7 weeks to get one back and the 1st time I used it to hold a bolt head the pliers broke, looked like bad metal like a pot metal where it broke. Sent it back and they sent me a new one and I sold it. Victorinox is my go to of choice now. It’s a shame cause I really like leatherman better.
I feel the same way. I really wanted Leatherman to work and I actually like the tool selection better on the Wave but I eventually got tired of sending in tools for warranty. It has been 4 years now with Victorinox and my tools oil the same as I got them under very heavy use. They are indestructible
Well, it seems I’m buying the Victorinox Spirit cause it has a perfect quality control. I’m not risking hundreds of dollars for this crab. Thanks everyone for their commentaries.
Leatherman got rid of the QC dept a long time ago.
I find leatherman tools to be poor quality for the price you pay. Under warranty i had to return a juice S2 because of an issue with the points of the pliers not lining up, two PS4's because both times the spring on the scissors snapped off, one style PS because the spring on the scissors snapped off, and one juice B2 because the scales weren't tight and made a creaking sound every time you gripped them to open a blade. I also owned a leatherman crunch and the Philips screwdriver started grinding away after only a few uses like some cheap pound shop screwdriver. I find Victorinox to be a far superior quality and I've had no issues with any of their tools
Victorinox is King in the quality department.
This was also my experience. I broke Leathermans so much that I finally had enough and jumped onto the Victorinox train. I have no regrets. My Victorinox multi tools will outlive me and I am sure of it - they are indestructible and are worth sacrificing in a few areas in order to have a tool that won’t break in you when you need it to work for you
I’ve got a knifeless rebar coming from KnifeCenter this week so I’m hoping that that one’s gonna be decent quality otherwise gonna have to avoid Leatherman. I’ll try to remember to reply back to this post with how it is.
Yeah the knifeless rebar I got was terrible. I'm a fairly strong guy and just opening and closing the pliers took actual effort. One handle's tools were fine to open but the other handle's tool are very gritty and difficult to pull out to the point you need a tool to safely pull the clump open. I cleaned and lubed the tool and that helped slightly. I ended up putting the plier head in my vice and using a breaker bar to help open and close the handles to work them over for a bit. That helped a tiny amount but it's still very difficult to open and close the tool. I'm going to return it and just be done with leatherman because they've just gone to shit. Every single victorinox tool or knife I've owned has been flawless and I've never gave gerber or sog a try.
@@fivevs1I bought a knife less rebar for my 7 year old so that they could have their first multi tool. Same exact thing as you - my daughter couldn’t even open the tool all the way because the pivots were so stiff. I should have returned it right away but I tried putting every type of oil imaginable to hope that it got better but it never did. She got a Victorinox instead and although it grieves me, I’m done with Leatherman.
@@waholoopesorry74 yeah I ended up getting a Victorinox spirit X and just saying the hell with Leatherman. The quality on the Victorinox it’s just night and day better. I have no regrets. Frankly, at this point, I don’t even understand how Leatherman is still in business.
I recently bought a Chinese copy. I can honestly say the Chinese copy is at least as good as my 6 month old Wave+. My Wave+ plier head broke in half while I was trying to remove the joining link spring on a pushbike chain. Now my China copy cost me £35 and my Wave+ was around £120 (if I remember correctly). Am I going to invest in another Leatherman now, I honestly doubt it. Well not unless I start seeing thing improve. Just my opinion but I think LM rely way to heavily on their (very good) warranty.
Exactly. It isn’t a good thing that you hear everyone talk about their warranty. I would rather have a tool that doesn’t break so that I don’t have to use the warranty!
Have seen a video one or two weeks ago where a content creator lamentated that Victorinox is not innovating enough and bringing enough new htings out like Leatherman does. And even in the comment section he got overwhelming support for that argument.
Then and now my opinion is quality control is more important than innovation. At least Victorinox has not sacrificed quality control on the altar of innovation.
I have two Leatherman Chrage ALX (so quite some years old) and for what i use them they are great.(especially due to the bit holders and the ratchet i got myself) But i am not in the slightest interested in one of the magnet models, because of the magnets.
I don't want to sound like I'm arguing innovation over quality control, but as someone who's been in manufacturing for over a decade I feel companies can really have both if they're patient with their new product development.
@@iNowHateAtSigns I agree, but these two seem to be at the extremes of the spectrum at the moment.
Went from my trusty old 98 Swisstool back to a older wave (that was fine) then to a newer wave with 2 handed blade because of legal reasons and the quality was horrible, sharp edges everywhere, tension all wrong, one of the springs was stuck/broken (a bit like yours), no big deal i thought, got a replacement from amazon that was nearly as bad...no i have 2 new Swisstools and wont bother with Leatherman at all (my first mt was a charge tti that i sold, had its own issues like scraping file on the handles for example).
Quality sucks all across the board!
Ive seen it and believe Covid was the cause!
Manufactures are shoving crap out the door, needing sales, trying to recover.
Thanks for sharing and have a great day!
Steve
I'm kinda shocked a western manufacturer (assumedly) is so oblivious to quality control. At least in my country engineering schools are filled with talk about how much quality costs when you're not in control of it, not only in physical losses but also image. Like the first thing you need to get a control over when you're founding manufacturing is quality of your process. If you aren't able to show where your quality is, you're just doing stuff, you don't have a plan or a strategy, you can't manage your company's processes at any level at that point when you don't know and can't meet criteria. And even worse, if you're not doing it well enough on the first go, you're doing it twice and adding extra costs, you've essentially thrown all that work and money into waste. Japanese learned this all the way back in the 60's when American industry professionals visited and helped them kick off their manufacturing industry. Now everyone knows and uses Lean, Kanban etc etc that were the results of that. Americans taught them the ideas and somehow now forgot it.
Hi Ben, new subscriber. I was looking to buy a Leatherman for outdoor use only like camping, bushcrafting, edc. Another fellow on YT recommended The Surge since he noticed a few had them on the show " Alone" or something of that sort. Im not Rambo lol. But if i was what would your Leatherman choice be. I had no idea there are that many. I like the Surge and the file on it. But fir the price and what i just seen has me skeptical. Ty for the video and ill watch more.
Check out my review of the Leatherman signal. I give a pretty good breakdown of what I think makes the best outdoorsman‘s tool.
I have both (Surge and Signal). If you are an AVID camper. Signal is great and minimalist. If you are a twice a year camper, get a Surge, better for all needs daily. Have fun!
I wonder how much business Leatherman can afford to lose before they will actually improve QC ?
I was thinking of getting a new Wave or charge until I heard all the problems with the wire cutters.
To me that is one of the main reasons for having a pliers based multi tool.
I am sure Victorinox won’t mind getting the business Leatherman is pissing away.
I carry a wingman daily. It's awesome
there will always be lemons, but Leatherman has always been the gold standard.
Its a good representation of the actual situation of the cukture of the ex leader in the game. Unfortunatly
Cost is high, and quality isn't there for that price. I've gone to bilbury tools which are cheaper and not bad, plus I like that I can use 1/4 bits which are readily available. Don't think I'll be spending 260 for new magna cut. I can get 5 tools for 1 Leatherman
I really hope this is just some 'dark ages' for LM and american industry and that they'll recover in the near future. There's a lot of reasons to fail or even disappear: The pandemics, China is heavily subsidizing steel and everything made of steel, weak economy, premium products in general are performing badly in terms of sales and quality. I've heard ppl complaining similar things about cars, some people rant about new Milwaukee drills being shit. We could be talking for hours
For me, I think Leatherman lost their way after the original pst and original wave (version 1). I have owned and modified many, including my wave, and I know the newer waves were popular. But as a useful quality tool, I think in today's environment these are more of am expensive "fashion" accessory. For practical everyday use I have reverted to just carrying a SAK. I understand everyone else's mileage may vary,
I buy every original wave I come across. I now have enough of them and parts to last me the rest of my life. 👍 I am a power user and literally wear them out so I just rebuild them with my collected spares.
That's bad. You definitely don't want to hear a jiggle in a leatherman. I've bought 3 different leathermans last couple years. Zero issues thankfully.
With the prices companies are charging these days, customer service and quality should be #1 but it seems the opposite is true.
When price point and quality don't match, it's time to look for better tools/maker to invest.
Leatherman needs a make your own mulit-tool!!! Choose a frame and the tools you want on it!!! Also, the costs of new tools are way too high!!! I have a Surge, Wave+, and original Raptor!!! Don't see me replacing any time soon!!! My actual knife options are a No. 9 Opinel, and a Decepticon!!! Leatherman, step it up or you will end up like Gerber!!!
This couldn't be better timed.. The scissors Spring on my Leatherman Surge just snapped completely off.. This isn't a hard used tool it mostly sits in a drawer. There's no reason for this to have happened like use or abuse. Really getting let down by Leatherman and their quality control these days. Maybe it's time to look at different options.
I had to take my Surge back to Bass pro because the scissors didn't work right
It is hard to pay $40 for that kind of quality. I will stick to my Victorinox, Knipex and Klein Stuff for now. I need a real Made in USA product quality😁
Leatherman's prices have always been out of the ball park so there's no excuse for poor quality control.
I am just sending in my Charge, since it wiggles when it is closed... :(
Right now every company doesnt matter which one.. are trying to save on manufacturing costs and cut cirners in order to save every little dollar they can
Leatherman trying to "replace" the Wave is the multitool equivalent of Porsche trying to replace the 911. Remember the 928? It was a great car but no one but Porsche thought that was a possible 911 replacement. 928 is gone for 30 years now while the 911 soldiers on. At least I can afford a Leatherman. 😂
Nice 👌
I feel that Leatherman is flirting too much with the high-end knife community. I feel that a Leatherman is a tool more than it is a knife. Honestly, I would like to see Leatherman come out with multiple toolsets on the wave+ geared to specific trades.
Why don't you return them or don't make use of the guaranty, when those loose imlements bother you?!
Greetings from Germany
Either Tim Leatherman stopped caring about his company or someone else is in charge of making decisions.
It should have never been plastic in the first place 🙄
If they needed it non magnetic then use alloy...
Victorinox are going cheap too, the new alox models have aluminum inner dividers....
I wonder if Leatherman lost a lot of long term staff over COVID and are using short term contract workers now ?
I’ve loved Victorinox in the past more than Leatherman or the others, but it’s not looking too promising for them either. Jon Gadget made a good video recently critiquing their shift the past few years moving away from a quality tools company towards an overpriced “lifestyle brand”
@@JC_1095 Jon's Victorinox critique video was outstanding 👍
Clones are getting too good for Leatherman to be slacking.
Problem is Tim Leatherman has stepped back
Ben does a darn good job when I was there and tim had his own office and came in once a week and engraved peoles personal Leathermans by hand. It comes down to money.