The Problem With Live Service Games
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2024
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Live-Service Games have become the hot trend in gaming over the last decade... But why? And what are the Problems with Live-Service Games? Lets find out…
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___TIME STAMPS___
Introduction - 0:00
Sponsorship - 3:07
Why Studios Shifted to Live-Service - 4:34
Where Things Get Confusing - 9:01
Killing Creativity - 12:10
Obsessing Over Player Retention - 16:00
Competition is Fierce - 20:35
Conclusion - 26:07
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#thegrandmafia
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Hi
Hi actman
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Clan
The “Fix it later” mentality has devoured AAA games
That's why I strictly pirate games in addition to my Xbox Gamepass. In the off chance a game can't be pirated or isn't on Gamepass, AND I know for a fact it's good, I'll buy it from a grey market site for pennies on the dollar.
Until publishers show they aren't looking to bend me over at every turn, I'll be the one bending them over instead.
This would have been a perfect opportunity to spell mentality or devoured wrong and when someone points it out just say that you’ll fix it later
Scratch that, it’s devoured ALL games. Indie games aren’t immune to this crap.
@@britishguy54dx No, NOOOOO, not the indie’s
Sometimes they don’t even get a chance to “fix it later” and they just pull the plug. And remove from the steam store “say hi Babylons Fall.”
I can't believe Act Man and his team got the comment section working as soon as the video went up. What a God of a developer.
Just doing my job, sir
@@TheActMan all hail the Acting Male
@@TheActMan good soldiers follow orders
What a G.O.A.T. for not putting the comment section in the battle pass
@@rear5118 this shit is definitely getting pay walled next video. Don’t hold your breath.
BIG fact! No matter how broken the game is, the store ALWAYS works.
Unless it's Project Playtime. Though I suppose the glitched store bring up a bundle double the price of what you click without fail could be considered a double win in their pockets until people catch on.
You just described Apex Legends.
How can we learn any facts when the Thumbs-Down numbers have been disabled across the board?
You would think thats how it works but half the time the stores dont work either, and in the case of microsoft the stores always work worse than the games
@@dragonflyBMX
Except it ain’t broken, only my heart is for how boring and generic it became :(
I used to like it so much!
“I’m a human being, I have a limited time on this planet. I’m not going to spend it eating garbage.” A beautiful quote I will remember for all life decisions.
...Anyway, here's an ad sponsored by Grand Mafia World Planet City! Be sure to click the link, folks!
Annnnd yet McDonald's exists.
/s
"it's not because it's the right thing to do, it's because they're getting sued" always straight facts
thank you senpai!
Sounds like black ops 3
Holy cow I've never had a comment with over 1k likes ty everyone
@@DismayingHades6 well done. Don't forget to put it on your résumé!
@@Naptosis if i don't get a promotion ima be pissed off
“Because that’s where we can put midrolls in” Gets a midroll. This is why I love The Act Man
I couldn't resist, mate
@@TheActMan a true pirate
@@TheActMan Its just good business.
@@TheActMan comedy gold
Low-key, I've never been okay with an add mid video till just then. That was such a great way to get a point across
Honestly, one of the things I hate the *MOST* about a lot of live-service games, is the intense pressure they put you under to log on every day, and do certain tasks that *they* want you to...it feels so much more like a job than anything resembling the gaming of old.
When I play a video game, I want to relax, go at my own pace, not worry about battle passes and just do my own thing. I love playing Majora's mask just to bathe in the atmosphere of places like Zora's domain and explore the world. To me, the "gamer-retention" strategies of modern gaming just kills the experience.
I saw that first time last week, when my son - visiting - installed a game on my PC to meet some kind of daily grind quota. I had introduced him to games, God help us, but never with that business model.
I mean… I just deinstalled a farming mobile game because I finally bought Stardew Valley. =.=
Yes, this includes all levels of gaming. The ticking clock in the back of your mind is ever present, battle/season passes you have to BUY and then grind daily to get even a chance of getting a skin because it’s the highest tier.
It’s insane.
@@ArDeeMee Yeah, Stardew Valley would be so much more enjoyable than a mobile farming game.
And I really do hate that ticking clock where gaming becomes an obligation instead of a joy. I used to play Realm of the Mad God a lot, but the increased pressure to do *insane* amounts of grinding time-limited events to get rare/good items just burned me out of what I used to love playing.
Sad to see it sucking the fun out of so many games
I am playing so many old games on Easy. At times I just stop and look around at the world the developers built. Have seen some really cool stuff I missed before.
Yeah, even if I like a game, I dont do the tasks.
"Greed can make a person sloppy, hotshot. Remember that."
-From a Character in a Free to Play Game that was released back in 2013 and still standing strong with no live-service shenanigans.
Little Duck baby
@@paullucas9536 Hell yeah.
I love me a Warframe reference
A free to play game done right.
What game?
I love how Act Man literally just made an entire gaming video around the fact he got a new vacuum cleaner. I can respect that.
Watcher retention.
Now it can be a tax writeoff
Don't worry he only has to pay for the "DLC" to fix it. 10/10 remindes me of CIV V
Act man got the new vaccum cleaner dlc
Tbf getting a new vacuum cleaner is hella sweet
Live service games are honestly not that bad of a concept but most game devs who try it are completely incompetent and use it as an excuse to release the game unfinished and pack it with microtransactions more expensive than full priced games, as well as drip feed the bare minimum amount of (sometimes reused) content.
Literally this, I am SO TIRED of seeing companies rush games out by practically whipping their employees across the back like the impatient little greed monsters the CEO's ultimately are...all because they cant just give the time and budget for the poor developers to finish the game on release.
you cannot trust a company to not cut corners
The Avengers game is a prime example
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 I'm more tired of seeing gamers consistently reward the practice with ludicrous profits. Reminder that COD:MW2 2022 made $800 million.
the best example of a live service game is Monster Hunter: Worlds, no other company has been able to make one to how we as gamers expect a live service to be besides maybe Warframe.
This and a lack of passion behind many bigger games is why I got into indie games in the last two years. The games are complete on launch and they don’t artificially make me feel like I’m missing out on anything!
I want companies like Activision Blizzard, 343 Industries, and Ubisoft to go bankrupt because of Indie Game purely out of spite.
Sadly, not all of them are very good. I played a good amount of Indies, but I feel like indie devs also need to step out of their comfort zone now. 2D games are all cool and nice, but I feel like they can go for 2.5D now. Or maybe 3D in PS1/PS2 graphics style. People would be hyped and they would also make some good bucks out of people who seek nostalgia.
@@Adeyum64I agree but it depends on the developer. I planning on doing 2d because I am new to the idea of attempting a indie game but I do plan on attempting a 3d once I am up to par. Once I do that, I will use Godot or Unity which ever engine make it easier because 3D games are harder to code.
@@computernerd8157 Yeah, I can absolutely understand that. However, that sounds wild! I would gladly play it!
@@Adeyum64 I appreciate it. I am going to work hard to make it a reality. Most of my insporation is coming from Way Forwards Shantae's Capcom'sMega Man and a small influence from Lion head's Black and white. If I get my skills on par, then I would love to figure our how to make a God sim game like Black and White but better. For copy right reasons, I am sure, I cant include creatures though like a Giant Cow.
19:47
Act man out here casually predicting CoD MW3
And how do you know that? Because you bought it. Stop doing that.
Honey, the internet exists.
The smart move used to be "never pre-order games. Wait until release to see if it sucks or not". Now that's being pushed forward to "Wait a year or two after release before you buy a game, to see if they fix it to be playable, or if the game dies and wouldn't have been worth putting time into to begin with".
exactly. was just saying this the other day
Glad i did not pre order anything until the game launches.
Then i decide to buy it or not
Main reason I don't buy online only games, once it's dead it's dead, plug gets pulled, all your time wasted, any money spent wasteful. At least in a single player game when a game loses its community or popularity the game stays, it will always be their, always playable, even if it has online functions only those will be shutdown
But then you miss out on all time limited stuff and the fact that a game is new and hyped.. For me it's good to see a game grow over time.. Up to a certain point...
I've gone far enough to start emulating old games or just returning to games I've already enjoyed because almost nothing new interests me at all, the only game I'm hesitantly looking forward to is Kerbal Space Program 2
This reminds me of the lightbulb problem I learned about in school. It is scientifically possible to make a lightbulb that lasts for a lifetime, however these lightbulbs would cause a negative economic impact for the producers, so they instead produce inferior lightbulbs. It is a similar case for games, it’s not about making the best game anymore, it’s about player retention and milking the customers out of their time and money.
except its much eaiser to make it a good game and milk money, its just they dont, because they cant see more than 1 years into the future on their earnings, just want a quick buck
The lightbulb problem isn't actually real though, someone invents a lifetime lightbulb and then they make all the money, yes they go out of business in years, they still made tons of money among the way. They haven't actually invented the perfect lightbulb, and if they could they would.
@@tincanstantheman well I mean it is. It's like the sole reason cars exist as they do today
@@mryellow6918 it's not my friend, would you buy a lightbulb that never goes out? If you answered yes, would you still buy it for $500? What about those lightbulbs that change colors? Do you want those too?
A lightbulb that never goes out would make tons of money and companies know this, yet we as consumers want more than just a working lightbulb. Just like how a cat getting us from A to B isn't enough, we need comfort, ease, safety e.t.c. your getting stuck on this idea that we could have this ideal and near perfect car, lightbulb, e.t.c, but the reality is they can't invent a car with near infinite milage or a lightbulb that never breaks and if they did they would make tons of money and people would still want a car that self drives and makes coffee or whatever other future invention.
Lightbulb problem doesn't exist. If every company makes disposable light bulbs, you could come into the industry and offer your lifetime bulbs and everyone would buy them. Then you simply stop production and keep your profits once the market has purchased enough.
Hey guys, I think the devs might have abandoned this video
The reason games were better before post-launch updates is what you stated as well, it forced the developers/publishers to create not release an unfinished mess, to make sure it was all good before sending to print. There was no easy "patch it later"-alternative. This whole mentality is completely gone now. Publishers can just force the game out despite how unfinished it is, thinking they can always fix it later and give some stupid promises with a road map they'll never live up to.
They also had to go through (on consoles) harsh quality testing from from the console manufacturers before they even were allowed to release.
It’s crazy how we are now in a place where teams upon teams of people with massive budgets make a insanely worse product than a small indie studio.
Indie devs actually give a shit
Limitation breeds creativity
When you give it more thought it is not. Try to make a game as big as Cyberpunk for example as an indie developer. I guarantee it will be 1828281 times worse than what we got. I think it's unfair to compare games that are a few times bigger in size and complexity and just praose indie developers becouse their smaller game is better.
What would be more fair is to compare a small game made by a studio and a small game made by an indie developer. But then it won't fit people's argument so why would you right?
@@ghostplasma5590 Depends.
I think the problem is that the line between "Live Service" and "Early Access" has been blurred to the point where companies are just churning out half-finished products just to try and make money while promising to constantly improve. I don't want a game to NEED to constantly improve in order to be playable.
The problem is that they're satisfied with the unfinished product but not satisfied with their income and push out more unfinished content instead of bringing something finished out. Quantity over quality. Hate that mentality, ruins their reputation too hopefully.
Deep Rock Galactic is a perfect example of a GOOD live service game, would love to see you cover it sometime!
Kinda boring game
@@mickethegoblin7167 Found the Leaf Lover.
Rock and stone!
*Did I hear a rock and stone?!*
@@spaghetti7929 ROCK! AND! STONE!
The biggest problem with "Modern Gaming" and the live service model is how much power has been taken away from the players. The corpos get to decide how long games are even available, and with all digital content we've lost the ability to fight back.
Live service games would be great if publishers/developers actually released a FULL AND COMPLETE game and updated it. The problem is that publishers see it as a way of breaking down a full game into pieces they can drip feed consumers… and if sales aren’t looking good, they can save money.
That might honestly be the worst part about this. Live service games have the potential to be the best games out there, by releasing an awesome finished product and just making it more awesome over time. Except...well...the industry standard instead became "release half-baked, unfinished products early and make it complete later via live-service" which is just disheartening to see. Remember back in the early 2000s when Diablo 2 was a finished game, released with an expansion, and had live-service ladder competition that was so timeless that it's still around today? How sad it is to see how live-service went from that peerless quality to broken unfinished messes that rarely last over 1 year.
Plenty of European developers either build their games that way...or at least try to. They're DLC-heavy, but the DLC generally tends to be worth what you get with it.
SCS Software puts on a masterclass with the Truck Simulator games. Paradox puts on a...class...with their first-party-developed games.
@@joshuakim5240 you don't remember someone just told you about it.
You really hit the nail on the head about sticking to a singular game because of FOMO. It became so tiresome that now I hardly engage with seasonal content at all. For a lot of us, FOMO has had the opposite affect. It drove us away from the game, or seek out others, rather than making us obsess over it and treat it like a second job.
Shit like this made me question if I even liked video games anymore. I still do, but I find it hard to enjoy anything because they're made to demand so much attention.
@@Gamesforus1 You're okay. You ain't gotta worry about a siiiiingle thing my dude. The only thing that has changed is the era and the fact that the corpo cunts have finally noticed that video games are very lucrative and... well, i guess it's different for every game genre. Some of the best games are still out there and are still being created buuuuut they're few and far between in the case of ''TrIpLe AAA'' games nowadays. But it's a good thing that indie games are still being consistent on that front.
@@Gamesforus1 I've had the same issue like... do I even like games these days? I hardly feel like playing them unless they're single player games anymore.
Yup, this is why it's so hard for me to commit to any multi-player games long term
Yup, they are also unknowingly (or knowingly) killing the casual gamer fan base. As a guy working two jobs and going to school part time, I don’t have the patience to stay up to date on “cool EXCLUSIVE LIMITED TIME content” let alone play the games enough to get it. It practically demands me to open my wallet at that point, to which I say, “F-- off.”
You have a huge audience so thank you for using your voice to wake people up. I came from a time where games released completed and it makes me question people when they settle for a half finished product and support it by buying cosmetics and battle passes. Thank you act man
Hey act man just wanted to say I been going through depression and your videos really been cheering me up and I been needing that. Thank you for all the content and effort you put into them. Cheers all the way from Australia
You doing any better bro?
Stay strong man. Been there.
It can get better. Eat well, go for a run, talk to people, and stay sober.
That's the best basic advice I can give you to help.
@@lukep757 replace "go for a run" with "join a kickboxing gym" and you just perfectly described what helped me overcome my post-divorce depression :)
You hit the nail on the head. The gaming industry is crumbling because of a change in perspective; games are now viewed, designed, and managed as monetary devices to suck up as much profit as possible, instead of passion projects that the creators were proud of, like it was previously.
By which metric is the industry crumbling?
I avoid games like that
@@FIDEL_CASHFLOW_ Quality. If we start slicing brownies as soon as they're out the oven, sure we'll still have brownies, but they'll be all crumbled. We need to give them more time to solidify so we can make them more presentable. If we accept brownies sold in such poor conditions then what next? Are the next generation of bakers just gonna serve up the unbaked gloop? lel
Yes sir, it’s no longer art, but a business. Unless you’re Fromsoft 🫡
Yes, the 1990s, 2000s and early 2010s were truly the golden age of gaming. Before the 1990s and after the early 2010s gaming has been a complete money grab.
I think my personal biggest gripe with the live service model is the lack of respect for the player's time. In any given month you could have multiple live service games release, all demanding your constant time and attention. Gotta get those daily log in bonuses and do your daily challenges! But you're also still playing last month's games, or even last year's. It just becomes way too much to keep up with. No thanks. I'll keep enjoying my single player games.
Ikr? They turn something fun into a chore and God forbid you fall behind because if you do then you'll have to fit multiple days of tedious grind into one. It's so they can tempt you into paying for lost progress in whatever system they may have (usually battlepasses) and to force you to choose just one game to dedicate your time to over the rest, but instead of making it fun and thus worth spending time playing, they make it a choice of how much you're willing to lose out on and it's disgusting.
Idk minecraft still has a good solid playerbase as do older games like l4d2 and tf2. Not as many but enough to say damn they lasted long.
But yeah new games have become cash AND time sinks.
who askedwho asked
👍 insightful take.
Agreed
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that every game we find ourselves going back to play for the 500th time almost all exclusively come from the days of DLC content.
There isn’t a single live service game that I’ve even *thought* of playing more than once.
The ad coming in right after the “why are videos 10 minutes? Because that’s how we can do mid-roll ads!” was priceless.
Remember when you could walk into a game store, buy a game, and get a completed product entirely on the disc day one?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I memba!
We took it all for granted. Remember when pre-order bonuses weren't blatantly pay-to-win?
Memmba when you just slapped a cartridge in to a thing and it did a thing and 10 seconds later *BOOM* , you are gaming bby!
Too bad you don't remember the thousands of times this didn't happen. Where games had to release early and online patching was not as widespread or available to everyone. Publishers were just as bad 20years ago making games release in holiday seasons or due to budget. A ton of games are only playable now because of fixes made years later.
Yeah and lots of those games still have all the issues they launched with 🤷♂️
respect for the Deep Rock clip
Hello father
Did I heard Rock and Stone ?
agreed and for rock and stone!
If you don't rock and stone, you ain't coming home.
ROCK AND STONE!!!
There is a MAJOR difference between a good game getting regular continued support.. and a completely broken and unfinished game releasing with a cash shop and a vague promise to maybe improve it over time.
There's also a difference between that and something like Minecraft or Warframe, where they genuinely were being made with direct support of player feedback and funding. They released with promises of nothing, and built into something amazing over time.
Games failing to release what was promised just to pretend to be like Minecraft or Warframe is disgraceful.
20:04
Ever heard of the original Plants vs. Zombies Garden Warfare’s leveling system? It was exactly like you described. There’d be incredibly specific tasks like “kill this incredibly fast flying object with a slow rocket”…. Luckily there were stars to skip those challenges but still.
I'll keep saying this because publishers refuse to listen: there is only 24 hours in a day. A human physically can't keep up with every single live service, so we cut our losses and commit to a few releases at most. That's why 90% of live services fail; they didn't make a good enough case for themselves and were ignored into obscurity.
Genshin impact gets a away with it
@@lazyvoid7107 Well, they actually do provide additional content for the players.
I only play established MMO’s like RuneScape now because everything is live service and I have no time to dedicate to any of these new ones. I miss when games were just games. You get what you buy and play it to completion. Simple and useful for my time
@@lazyvoid7107 Genshin Impact has the advantage that they actually delivered. Straight from launch.
Oh, you want an Open World Game with a story? Yeah, we got that.
Oh, you like Anime Girls? Yes, we have that!
Levels? Got it
Breath of the wild like gameplay? Yes. You dont even need to get a switch for it!
You want expansions, events, new characters pretty much constantly, a variety of buffs? We got you homie.
"You're not meant to play them all, only ours"
Imagine, walking into a store, buying a game disc, and not having to download 150gb of data when installing the first time.
Ah, and 99% of the times, it just work.
Todd Howard "It just works" 99% of the time most of the time, ...probably, ...hopefully.
@@pbjent IT JUST WORKS ruclips.net/video/YPN0qhSyWy8/видео.html
Popping in MW2 for the first time and realizing I can't even play the game for 24 hours.
Games are too big nowadays to fit on discs so basically the discs are empty and just a “license” to download the actual game
@@John_shepard sounds like an excuse to me. Back in the early days we had those very same file limits and managed to stretch the boundaries.
i love your mentality towards greed and how it gets in the way of genuine, authentic, captivating game design and artistic expression overall.
Elden Ring and Dad of Boy def deserved being the best games of the year, not only are they massive games and fun at the same time whilst not being horridly hard on storage space, but the games came out COMPLETE!
And we thought Halo couldn’t get any worse… Nek minute “LIVE SERVICE!”
Woah dude you were selected for a prize you better "hit him above". Whatever that means.
Assalam
@@HamzahShoaib wa alaikum assalam
Nek services
Free to play and live service killed Halo. Makes it feel like a dollar store game
I miss when most developers actually cared about the games they made, now there’s only a few developers that care about their games.
Oddly enough that’s the most true now more than ever. Indie devs.
@@marcar9marcar972 indie devs and maybe like 2 triple A devs
@@marcar9marcar972 same with AA games despite their flaws
I've been enjoying gaming more ever since I stop paying attention to AAA titles. They really are the bad apples that spoil the gaming industry barrel.
I wholeheartedly enjoy life more with indie games, and some AA games these days.
I've played some really creative and fun indie games I wouldn't have thought I'd enjoy if was for game pass. Indie devs are keeping the hobby afloat.
Can't wait for the new live service chess game. Apparently they're gonna be adding a new store. I can buy Queens now
great video, btw i loved 7Days2Die, but i guess i started when it was a lot more developed. Something about the atmosphere and the uncertainty (in the beginning) really dragged me into it
The Act Man again shows his mastery of the video formation process by putting a mid roll ad when he said that the 10 minute mark “let’s us put a mid roll ad.” So perfectly & smoothly done that I ain’t even mad.
Mad props fam, much love
Dude I literally laughed out loud seeing that someone else noticed his timing 😂🤯🔥
I didn't get one.
@@SolProxy look at you and your fancy ad free youtube
@@belmontxr100 Oh I wish.
The act man really flexed his big brain
Yeah, the biggest problem with post-launch support is that it promotes laziness on behalf of the developer. It's what allows them to get away with releasing a broken game in the first place. They can just say "we'll fix it later" and that's why gaming is the way it is. Sony has proven time and time again that great singleplayer experiences with no multiplayer component can do really well. Not every game needs to be live service.
And now Sony is planning to move away from single player games and into live services. They want 12 (yes, 12) live service games released in the next 5 years.
@@qu1253 They've been saying time and time again they will not abandon single player games and they have been proven it: Gow Ragnarok, Spider-man 2, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Wolverine, Sifu etc. They haven been investing on third party games as well like main line Final Fantasy titles and Silent Hill 2 Remake. Plus it's confirmed they are working with Fromsoftware to make another PS exclusive.
They won't get rid of what is successful to them
I will mod Tarkov to be single player if i have to
Not even that, if anyone doesn't complain then it's not getting fixed
@@qu1253 lol that doesn't mean that Sony is planning to move away from single player games, all that means is that they want more live service game's.
I would play Call of Duty instantly if Act Man Appeared on screen to give a thumbs up every time my team took the lead.
The mid-roll ad at that point where you’re talking about mid-roll ads was a very nice touch. I see you.
We need more dev teams as passionate as the ones who gave us Deep Rock Galactic.
rock and stone!
you mean 1 update per year with no endgame galactic?
@@watchoutforwhoyoupissoff3046 Did I hear a rock and stone?
@@sokolov49 Still more updates that Halo Infinite...
DRG is great but Warframe is a premium example of a live service game that works, and gets consistent updates with content drops. I don't see yong yea or other big youtubers complain about how high priced Platinum is, or how the game rarely respects your time, or it's too hard for new players, etc. Nobody complains. Not a lot of story progression, but theres so much to do, and so many guns to fire.
Hey Acting Male been following you for years now and I gotta say I’m loving all the Monty Python bits you’re using now, always loved them it’s great they’re still getting airtime in ways like this.
GET ON WITH IT
If you’re talking about 7 Days to Die on console, then yes that actually was a scam.
It was ported to console by a company who quickly gave up on it and eventually lost the rights to the Ip, so while everyone was expecting the same experience as PC they actually got a version of the game that hadn’t been updated for arguably 5 years or more.
Pretty sure it was more expensive on console too which just adds insult to injury.
Yeah the game was horrible on console
Your wrong my guy telltale went under and that was the publisher and they lost the rights had to buy the ip back and then hire a new team to port over I can get why y'all were upset with 7 days but there literally no more then 30 people working on it don't expect something revolutionary and amazing it's a indie game 🤦
@@joshnykolaishen4657 The thing is that we can actually still expect a bit more than that since the devs only add more and more content nobody but never really improve graphics, animations or performance.
@@forfuchsake2254 wdym they update pc graphics and stuff constantly and if your gunna say console it's cause they don't do console ports or anything that's why they hire another company or publisher like telltale to port
@@joshnykolaishen4657 I'm not talking about console and I played from alpha 14 to 19 and it still looks aweful and has terrible animations
Helldivers 2 now is one of the most amazing example of how to properly make a beautiful live service game by making the lore and content drops revolve around player actions while building the world out alongside it
I wish EVERY gamer would listen to this and fully take the information in. If people pushed back and stopped buying garbage, we'd get MUCH less garbage
Gamers never learn, just look at MW 2 for a very recent example. Nowadays, gamers are brainless consumers with no standards.
looking at you Nintendo
Because gaming for fun is still a niche hobby. It gains steam every now and then, but most are just addicts to the dopamine that games nowdays are enginerred to drip. High functioning addicts, but addicts nonetheless. I truly dont know what it takes to as a society to snap out of it, since we get every year more and more extreme examples of this, and still buy into it.
They used to say video games make you violent, which is obviously not true. Like weed, it doesnt make you violent, it makes you content. Modern gaming is not a weapon, its a drug. Give me another reason why annual full price releases, despite all the outrage, still make the money they do.
Dont get me wrong, there are great games out there. But the ones that pull in the adult money, are little more than another fix. Id compare it gambling, but even then theres the actual miniscule chance of winning the cash price. The kind of gaming im referring to, has the price of feeling good about yourself, which tells a very sad story if you think about it.
There is no way to stop it on a societal viewpoint.
@@Dexusaz wait till GTA6 comes out. oh your mad about GTA online shark cards and abandoning RD2online? watch all these people who bitched will be there day one for GTA 6 and GTA online 2
They aren't to blame
You are talking to a group that is willingly refusing to listen to you, they've gotten, more or less, close minded
Does anyone else remember when they actually owned their games and didn’t require a service from the company in order to play them?
@ESO
Yep
@@AffogatoAnime anime 🤮🤮
I member. T.T
remember? ive never really let go... im a retro collector. i have a room full of hundreds of games & consoles. some of us will never give in to this digital trash. remember? some of us are still gaming that way, both retro & current. physical forever.
One thing to note as well is that player retention is a byproduct of a good game, you get player retention from making a good game instead of having to choose between one or the other.
i burst out laughing when a mid-roll ad started playing right in the middle of “thats when we can play a mid-roll”.
Deep Rock Galactic is an excellent example of a live service game done right. I encourage people to check it out.
Rock and Stone Brother!
That and Payday 2, at least on PC. Unfortunately on Console, Payday 2 was discontinued due to the Game Engine's difficulty to transfer to Console.
for rock and stone
DRG is fun but it feels like theres something missing in the content department. It's repetitive, but the moment you try Lethal 5 difficulty, the game becomes a butt clencher.
I'm playing it right now and for awhile though because my family is playing it and trying to catch up to elite deep diving.
Rock
And
Stoooooone !
For real, the season 3 is great
I was certain that live service was just a fancy way to say it's unfinished and we'll make it a glimmer of what we promised in two years
That's all any of them are. Profit now, lie about improvements later, then abandon the game once it doesn't turn a profit since there's zero consequences for openly lying to consumers anymore.
@@nigeltheoutlaw nobody couldn't have said it any fucking better dude
@@goodstuff4987 Nobody could have*
"nobody couldnt have said it any better" is a double negative so you're basically saying "literally anyone could have said it better"
@@4bidn1 nobody gives a shit
@@4bidn1 grammar nazi
😂😂😂 Well played Act Man well played!
"Why 10 minutes? Because that's where we can put Mid roll ads i.... *Ad plays* 7:30
Got an ad while talking about mid role ads. You sir, are poetic.
The minute companies realized they could make more bank off a handful of underpaid artists to design skins year round over having a polished product under the guise "FREE TO PLAY" it was all over.
The only good microtransactions are/used to be dlc on black ops where you'd get multiplayer maps and zombie. Now it's pay 6$ for this cowboy anime skin that you won't see except in killcams. I remember when rockstar used to release dlc and not just ridiculous gta online stuff.
Which is why Angels Fall First doesn't go Free2Play
Even a better idea, make people either pay real money or grind for months to gamble for characters/skins!
@@Bobby-rq5pe Bethesda DLC story content is arguably some of the best for the value. Halo DLC multiplayer map packs were good too.
@@Bobby-rq5pe borderlands 2 had dlc that was entire map expansions.
Deeprock galactic continues to be the only "live service" game I put money into. The devs throw out tons of free content every season and ensure all previous season content is still achievable, and then are like "yeah we also made a themed cosmetic pack based on the current season for sale" and I'm like yes please let me give you another $8 so you can keep pumping out banger content
I liked Deep Rock, played it cause of PS Plus in January. My only problem was that the missions got pretty stale pretty quick (though I did play 200 hours of the game). How is non cosmetic content of the game now?
@@Diphenhydra from what I've seen from playing the game for a few months, there is NOTHING that you have to pay for to access apart from some dlc cosmetics that don't effect gameplay. Every update is free.
There is another example - Warframe. Like - F2P, all story and quest content available to... oh, wait. All content available to you without paywall. And all new updates, with new stuff, characters, quests and etc - also free.
@@Diphenhydra It's still free, they rolled up Season 3 themed around infections, that added new warning and several events and enemies. And it's still fun to go back and play. Oh, and if you missed S1-2 cosmetics - you can find them in boxes or in cosmetic overclocks.
Rock and Stone brother!
I love how you started this video all glitchy. Quick and straight to the point.
didn’t glitch for me 🤨
24:40 “They grow up loyal to the Republic, or they don’t grow up at all.”
7:28 i got an ad as soon as he said that
Me too💀
Me too 💀
Me too 💀
Um, actually, that was the point, he put a mid-roll ad there 🤓
I did too😂😂
I think its important to remind ourselves that, just like film, this trend is almost exclusively happening in the AAA gaming space. There is still plenty of heart, passion, creativity and good will in the lower key AA and indie game scenes.
Case and point: "Madness: Project Nexus 2,
Terraria,
Voxel Turf".
All of those games, everything is unlockable or earned in game and basically nowhere else. No DLC fuckery, just free updates. One time purchase, yet more gameplay to be had than most modern AAA games.
@@Spearra I'd added two more games for this list: Warframe and Deep Rock Galactic. Constant updates, that bring a lot of new stuff to play with.
@@JL32506 Well, rotation of alerts and etc - is not new, i'm agree. But is seems they added a few more missions for Kahl and, well, Veilbreaker is a filler content, to keep players busy before next big update. And yeah, a couple of new toys for warframes and new cosmetics, that you can grab by doing daily\weekly - is always good.
Gigabash rocks!
Not all hope is lost
@7:02 That's the *exact* same vacuum that we have. I bought it at a Best Buy for ~$160 back in 2013 and have been coddling it along, making sure to keep it super clean and free of obstructions and whatnot that could cause it to burn up and die. It's falling apart but it still works and gets the job done. I'm always telling everyone how I have kept a disposable vacuum, that most people probably replaced after 2 years when it died for them, alive for a decade. Man, what a trip seeing someone else has the same one, the Hoover Windtunnel Air, model #UH70400.
Honestly, this was a well put together video, very informative, and seems to argue all sides. You've earned my like/subscribe sir
I feel like Deep Rock Galactic is one of the only games that gets the battle pass idea correct. Everything is free and unlocked at a good pace, and anything you miss out on in a season just gets added to the normal loot pool in the game
MUHSROM
ROOOOOOCK and STOOOOOONE (drill em and grill em)
Halo MCC is GOATed too with its progression
Rock and Stone, Brother!
Where is Molly?
You know it's a problem when a game's main menu looks no different from a website.
I genuinely thought it was a website at first
Ya its because they got hulu to make the menu when it wasn't needed.
I just really like your videos man. I look at you like, if we were co-workers at a job, somewhere along the line, we would be the ones always hanging out, and talking games and stuff, laughing. And NO DOUBT....there would be NON OSHA approved horseplay!! 😂
Keep up the good work man! Much success!!
Ghey
Wow, I’m not even going to skip the ad when it’s timed that perfectly. If you don’t hide what you’re doing, I gotta respect it.
There need to be a video game recession just like in the 80s
Now Minecraft has live service elements but guess what I just ignore them and play the game because deep down beneath that Bedrock Edition is the same Minecraft game I know and love
@@redseagaming7832 exactly, the game released finished they just enhanced it with more content.
I think one of the games that pioneered the live service format as we know it today was Team Fortress 2 and its updates. However, the reason it was good, and continues to be fun to play EVEN after the live service aspect has been almost completely abandoned for several years, is because the game that the live updates built upon was *already* a pretty rock solid experience on launch.
What's funny is that microsoft wanted valve to pay for any updates shipped for the xbox 360 version of tf2 after 2009, and since valve refused to do that, it basically caused said version to be considered a playable alternate timeline.
@@Artician Are we the alternate gaming timeline???
I blame netflix
Yeah but lets not forget they helped start lootboxes
@@rebotsomat2341 TF2 started it, but CS:GO took loot boxes to the next level, and propelled them to the front of every triple A game.
Nice video man, maybe you should try a video about how this fares on the other side of the globe, with developers like Mihoyo, Nexon, Swift, and so many others that have contributed to this situation as well.
I know I'm 8 months late, but I just wanna say that the first minute or so of this video got me. I thought he was GENUINELY having connectivity and audio issues, that the comment section was turned off, etc... I'll be honest, I only really caught on when he plugged himself and his merch for the 3rd or 4th time in less than 60 seconds but up until that point I was still invested. That was poetic man, absolutely and brilliantly well done. That perfectly set up the theme of the video and the scam of live service games as a whole 🙏🏿
I’m glad that you cited Deep Rock Galactic as a positive example of a live service. That game is one in a million as far as games as a service goes.
rock and stone!
ROCK AND STONE!
Did I hear a rock and stone?
C'mon lads! Rock and Stone!
Rock and stone
I said this nearly a decade ago: video games have to have a fun single-player experience. Sometimes, your friends aren’t available to play with you. Sometimes, you don’t want to deal with strangers. Sometimes, you’re a kid or a teenager who has no business using a credit card. Most sports and other physical recreation activities require some combination of multiple people, specialized equipment, dedicated facilities, and/or large space in order to do. Video games provide a virtual means of immersing oneself into a variety of different activities without ever having to set foot outside the house and it can all be done with a single computational device and a controller. Once you necessitate other elements that exist outside of that setting, you’ve shattered that niche.
18:36 this right here is why I respect DOOM:Eternal’s battlepass. 1: Its not monetized. 2: The progression is just by simply playing either the story mode or the online mode, it isnt restricted. And 3: You can xp share with other players to make battlepass progression a lot easier to the point that if you just dont play for long enough, you can use your points accumulated from dedicated players
7:29 just as you said the words "mid roll ads", ads started to play. Genius demonstration
Definitely one of the best live service games is Deep Rock Galactic. Updates that constantly improve the game and make it even more fun than before, no pay-to-win monetization schemes or overpriced cosmetics, a battlepass that is surprisingly not trash, a gameplay loop that doesn't get stale even hundreds of hours later, and above all else, the community surrounding the game and its developers co-existing in pure harmony and the game having some of the best player interactions that I've seen in a long time.
Rock and stone forever!
so many shitty games today come out that you cant even feel bad about piracy anymore but drg has deserved every penny it can get
@@_Kal_Kal ye
For Karl!!!
@@_Kal_Kal I would try it! Play one of each mission type. And try each class!
The developers are actually human beings and not some money hungry company.
The problem with a lot of live services is that they want all of your time. And there's dozens and counting services that have battle pass and unlockables that demand so many hours to get rewards. Because most games are revolved around obtaining that content reward, it doesn't end up making the game or the grind fun to play.
Yeah it means if I want to progress in any game I gotta pick wisely and commit to only a couple games
@@TheActMan dude fr it's too much sometimes. Like I only have time for some games. Going between Fortnite, cod, and other games, you can't have battlepasses for everything so you miss out
Hello Destiny.
Meanwhile, I have 200+ hours in Elden Ring and don't even care. And I can't wait for DLC because I'm invested in the gameplay and story. Go figure. I'll put my time into what I care about.
@@TheActMan but your game of choice is surely The Grand Mafia, The free mobile MMORTS game where you can recruit different homies, grow your gang, take over the city and grow your sphere of influence, right?
Love how in the middle of talking about ads an ad appeared, absolutely hilarious
This is going in my top YT videos of all time list. You nailed it!
When it comes early access, Valhiem is the best example. What’s incredibly sad is that it was released playable and complete, developed by a 5 person team. And to this day they are still putting NEW things into the game. 5 person team can do a game better than AAA devs. It’s astounding.
Problem is, the good people over there making Valheim are getting roasted all the time on every post they make about how long its taking for the updates to come out. It's very likely it's the same people who dump obscene amounts of money on live service games and have zero tolerance for not constantly getting new content for them to buy and play.
It's a good example of why a game like Valheim won't appear again for a very long time, if ever. When good developers get treated like garbage for actually wanting to make a good game, who else is going to even bother? Very sad.
@@Pumkin932 You make a very good point, it is unfortunate that there is such an extreme to each side, dev or consumer. Very sad indeed.
Edit: You make a good point with the slow updates, when I think about it too, Valhiem had 3+ years in development, it had a good long time to develope. Apart from most AAA games, like CoD, which are pushed out basically every year, rushed out to hopefully make a profit.
Halo Infinite however still baffles me, 5+ years in the oven, around $500,000,000, and it comes out missing a lot of basic features, bad connectivity issues, missing content, the list goes on. I don’t know, the games industry is all over the place it feels.
Is it though? I don't play early access games until they release. Valheim is STILL in early access, yet everyone seems to have stopped playing it, or certainly talking about it. When it actually comes out and I buy it will anyone care anymore?
Give Project Zomboid a try if you liked Valheim. Not because of the genre but because of what the game is. Most Intense Zombie-Surivial EVER!
Terraria is also a prime example of a small developer making a great game and continuing to support it. I didn’t put many hours into it, but I know there are some hardcore people out there who live and breathe it, and I’m sure they appreciated that.
We want to seek fun games to enjoy ourselves, as they only seek out profit margins for themselves. The live service system really does seem to trap players into spending as much as possible for progression on one game and a sunk-cost fallacy for cosmetics.
It feels like only don’t had actual done anything
Say what you want but GoW, Spider-Man these games have done things right they were full games on release single player exclusive and worked
The sequels also when
Miles is smaller but it’s still fun and doesn’t even have the DLC like the original (at this point any DLC is a turn off) and ragnarok while more expensive seems like it’s going to be an improvement on the original (cautious optimism seems wise) and given the head designer on 2018 is unlikely to sell DLC
Just subscribed. I see why people love you. Keep it up!
I really hope there's something like the crash back in the 80's. That's what the industry could use it with micro transactions, loot boxes and live services. Hopefully it will revitalize the gaming industry.
Deep Rock Galactic and Ghost Ship Games gets everything right about a Live-Service game. The devs listen to the community, and have an amazing theming to updates. In addition to an amazing game, it's so fresh and nice to see a game not rotten by corporate greed.
Ironically the game is about corporate greed. I love it and take it as a jab at the current state of the industry.
rock and stone
@@joshuahales641 to the bone
Not to mention that their "season pass" is the most consumer friendly model that ever existed. It's free, and if you don't unlock everything in a season, all of those things end up in the regular loot pool anyway, so you never fully lose anything. Not to mention the game is just so gorram fun. ROCK AND STONE, YEEEEEEAAAAAAH!!!
@@stephanwyrsta376 FOR KARL!
He put into words what we've all been slowing getting dragged across our faces for years. The passion has been just run ragged out of game developers by the people in charge of monetization. It's no longer about a good story, it's about selling you the next book.
And not even a well-written book. I don't know how, but modern games, often written by people with academic background in writing and literature, somehow turn out to be much inferior plot- and dialogue-wise than old games which were often written by laymen.
@@giorgialadashvili4771 One word for you : controversy
Like he said, they won't release something they might get sued over. Yelled at ? "boycotted" ? Perfect ! free press ! but nothing that will actually cost them a cent...
Whatever story could be written, whichever feverdreams the writers could tell, it's gotta clear a regiment of lawyers before it's greenlit. And with so much grinding, you can expect the end result to have lost some of its edge.
@@giorgialadashvili4771 this is what happens when those tumblr bloggers are given a job lol, they pour their mind diahorrea into fully fledged products
Watch "extra punctuation Live service games are dying" for some hopium
TIL act man is in shape and we have the exact same body hair pattern. I dont know what to do with this information but Im glad I learnt it.
:Because thats what we can put midroll adds in."
.
Well played, sir.
Act Man and Angry Joe being homies is something the internet needed, and I am here for it.
Joe? Ew no
@@lazyvoid7107 Joe Mama
ANGRY Joe, the guy who starts all of his “angry” reviews by softly, sweet talking into the camera “hey you guys. ☺️ Thanks for watching we spent a lot of time on this one. Sorry it came out a day later than expected. 😋 Anyways just wanted to say thanks for the support and don’t forget to order some g-fuel 🤪 ok now off you go ad enjoy how angry I am 😌”
@@Banch21 I have my reasons kid
when gaming becomes more of a job than an entertainment to wind down, relax and just... have fun playing it.
That's what turned me off of Destiny 2. Constant FOMO and making you feel obligated to make it a daily thing. What is it, a naggy girlfriend? No thanks. Game isn't even that good.
@@nigeltheoutlaw I don't understand why you can't just buy each expansion and enjoy the 20-30 hours you get out of it? You don't have to play the crappy seasonal stuff. The expansions are great. Other games charge $70 for the same game length that Destiny expansions bring
@@oxsila I can, I'm just not going to. They should try respecting my time and just give me the fun instead of trying to milk ever more out of me. A I said, the game isn't even that good.
Back when Jim Sterling was amazing I remember when he said the video game industry would rather make no money then some money every game has to be a Titanic movie success or we're not going to make it
@@nigeltheoutlaw The witch queen is the best campaign to date but ok
I like how no one is talking about the mid roll ad while him talking about it. Gave me a good chuckle
I hate how sloppy and unpolished games are at launch. But no matter how poorly put together the game is at launch, the in-game store ALWAYS works without fail. It’s the main reason why I’m so deep into single player games so much now. Red Dead Redemption 2 has been my go-to game the past few years.
Edit: I don’t play red dead online. Only single player
7:25 I see what you did there damn you
This is what I love about Act Man, even though he has 10 min vids to make bank, and takes bags from shitty mobile games, he is TRANSPARENT that he is getting payed to advertise products that he does not support whole-heartingly and leaves a timecode to skip the add. He is making us aware of the real game behind RUclips, without lying that he actually thinks these are good products.
"Because that's when you can put mid-rolls in" followed be an instantaneous ad and I couldn't even be mad
@@jacobblackstock5276 I laughed so hard when that happened, I even got an Xbox live ad.
The positive of GaaS: keep stuff fresh by adding new features and fixing bugs
The negative: take what would otherwise be a good game, creating a problem in it (slow progression/grind, exclusive unlocks etc.) And create a solution that requires your credit card.
12:10 making a mistake. i love that meme so much :D
As soon as I see that progression in a game is designed to be as grindy as possible it instantly makes me go “oh wow I’d rather play anything else”
They do that to keep you in the game. Which in itself is the gambling but worse
This is what I've never understood. All these soulless suit wearing business men think that if you make a game grindy enough, players will just spend money to skip it. I don't know man, maybe I'm different, but that shit don't work on me. If you waste my time and no matter how hard I try I feel like I'm not getting anywhere and making any progress or worse, I'm not enjoying myself or having fun, I'm not giving you money, I'm straight up un-installing the game and will likely never touch it again because you clearly don't respect my time and have now effectively pissed me off.
As grindy and as repetitive as Destiny 2 may be, the core of the game and the gunplay is excellent, plus I have many ways to still "earn" stuff that typically requires real money. I don't mind paying for expansions of they're worth it and while the idea of battle passes is annoying, what Destiny 2 offers for $10 is worth it in my opinion since I enjoy the game enough to keep playing it, both solo and with my Dumbshit Inc. Playstation group. This btw is coming from a previous Destiny hater of about 4-6 years because it's an entirely different game now and there's a lot I enjoy about it.
Big time agree with this.
Your videos are god tier. They always articulate thoughts I myself have had but have never been able to put into words. It's crazy how much I relate to basically all of your videos. Thanks for doing what you do, always excited to see any content you put out.
Thank you, kind sir!
For real man. I agree with like 90% of his opinions, it’s wild.
@@TheActMan thank you, kind stranger. Reddit karma updoot, wholesome chungus 100
Agreed, act man always seems to be spot on when it comes to his opinion on video games and gaming as a whole, act man along with jev are the two best content creators in my opinion
In relation to the challenges at around 20:00 I love games that simply give you either cosmetics or titles through them. Not nessecary, so it's not telling you how to play, but if you're up to the challenge it can be fun.
I guess the problem is that They’re time limited. If those kind of challenges were there forever it wouldn’t be a problem