The reason why Grisha can see Zeke is because he's seeing him through Eren's memories. Every time Grisha sees Zeke Eren is always standing behind him facing Zeke behind Grisha. Also the reason why Grisha makes that surprised face when staring at Eren is because he's directly looking at himself. Also Eren telling Grisha that he's the one that started this story is the same line Eren Kruger said to him when giving him the attack titan. I wonder if Isayama created this clever mechanic to use in this storytelling himself, or Eren just whispered on him to write it.
Straight up, someone needs to write a guide specifically for the shenanigans in this episode. The writing is insanely good once you parse what’s actually going on, but it’s just tricky to think through all of the future memories stuff while you’re watching all of the craziness go down. This explanation is by far one of the clearest I’ve seen, so good writing here!
“With my wife, son, and daughter” shit hurts, he really thought of Mikasa as part of the family without hesistation, best writing I’ve ever experienced in my whole fucking life
I'm Japanese. Dai Tsuchida, who plays Grisha's father, is also an actor and appeared in Kakuranger in the Hero Sentai series. He is the one who says "Huh?" on "Today is Friday in California," which became a meme in the United States a few years ago.
@@SkaffaS armins goal was to kill the navy fleet in a WAR, of course its still wrong but theres a difference between collateral and purposely killing innocents. you yaegerists always blow my mind lmao
@@Сайтамен you just repeated what I said I agree with you, Unles youre talking about eren... He quite literally purposefully killed an entire apartment building full of innocents for absolutely no reason... There were a total of 0 military members in that apartment
The parallel between Attack Titan and Founding Titan is mind-blowing, Founding Titan's power is defined by it's predecessors but the Attack Titan's power is ultimately controlled by it's successors. This means Eren's been manipulating the holders of Attack Titan for over 2000 years just to get to the point where he is today???🤯 Eren Kruger and now : keep moving forward.Even if you die.Even after death..🔥
Attack on Titan was such an S tier choice as a first anime. It's wildly popular, highly emotional, fast-paced and just overall mind bending. I can't wait for the rest of the season and to see your reactions! Enjoy.
12:21 Things happened only BECAUSE he said it, which only happened because Zeke went through those memories in the first place. The attack titan cannot see the future directly, but holders of the attack titan can send memories back to previous holders, even before they got the titan (Why are you crying Eren?!). That's why Grisha asked why Eren did not show him what happened to Carla (12:40), he did not know her fate until he met up with young Eren at the refugee area before letting him eat him. So Eren went through the memories with Zeke, then told Grisha there, and then send Grisha the memories of telling him back to Grisha in that very moment. Same when Grisha was holding the key (8:05), he basically saw a memory of looking at himself which is why he was looking so shook. That's why Grisha was able to see Zeke, he saw him through Eren's eyes because Eren looked at him and send the memories of that moment back to Grisha at that moment. It's basically a time travel paradox because in order for things to turn out how they did he would have had to manipulate the past to make future events go the way they did. 13:12 Just remember what Eren said at the beach... Attack on Titan is Eren's villain origin story. I'm surprised how no one gets that until after those episodes when they dropped so many hints for that throughout the seasons. To defeat monsters, one has to become a monster. Everyone conditioned him into this, including himself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Remember, all Titans are connected through the pathways where Eren and Zeke currently are. To access the power of the pathways, you need the key and someone of Royal blood. When Zeke and Eren touched they both gained immense power that could influence things beyond our comprehension because they were then connected to every single Titan ever pretty much Also remember, Zeke's idea is NOT to end all of humanity. It's to end the Subject's of Ymir, or the people who can turn into Titans. Overall, this is probably a relatively small portion of the world as a whole, but it does include all the people we've come to love and care about in the show
Try to remember that time isn't linear like how we perceive the story, everything is happening all at once so no one is really making any choices, they've all already happened/are happening. Its all "fate" in a way.
Edit: Camilla, I suggest you to not read any comments until you're done watching the show. That includes probably mine too. I love how when we first saw Eren kill those kidnappers. We never put too much thought into it, but later on the court, Nile even pointed out that even though it was self-defense, it shows that he lacks humanity. Normally no kid would be able to murder someone not even in self defense and then later he told even his father that they were no men, he said they were animals and of course that's how an adult would see those kidnappers who were definitely psychopaths themselves but hearing that from a 9 year old kid is crazy. But not as crazy as how calculated he murdered them (again not saying that defending Mikasa was wrong but a child shouldn't be mentally be capable of doing this) Amazing writing
I didn't at first, but the more I thought about how realistically the other characters behave, I started to question eren. Our expectations were a little subverted because it's anime, we expect that characters do superhuman things in a superhuman world, but with a bit of hindsight after the story gets rolling you realize his behavior is actually not the norm even in their world. And like you said, his actions are masked in the virtue and heroism of rescuing mikasa.
@lurkingknight exactly! I also didn't put too much thought into it at first because so many shows do not really have realistic characters, but in attack on titan the people really feel real. I really love that Eren's story has some character development too but we all get distracted by everything else that's happening that we don't notice that what first made him a hero is the same thing that made him a villian. It's the one thing about him that didn't change that much. It's that he was always so extreme and demonized his enemies. And it gets even better yes he learns and feels later that the enemies aren't just bad either but he even lost more of his humanity during the story and it's actually something even Armin encouraged Eren to do in season 1. It's just when the context changed it backfired. When titans would have been just monsters then Eren would have been a hero. But
@@howtoeverything5636 ooooh, loving this thread... i never considered the fact that even the show itself NEVER once implied that what Eren did was the morally correct thing to do. someone always called it out like "dude what the fuck is wrong with this kid". and we'd get offended or defensive for him, since we see it as him saving Mikasa from further trauma. and even still- i feel like since that episode, we all just kind of... accepted Eren to be sort of crazy. from his childhood being unhinged, to him savagely biting into his hand and ripping it off (regardless of the pain) just because he fucking wanted to do it like that, to the crazy shit he says way back when Reiner/Bertholdt captured him, and just... it really makes you appreciate the manipulation of feelings Isayama is able to convey, since throughout all of that, we never once considered it an issue. but the Final Season takes EVERYONE's character flaws and puts it on a silver platter, leaving it up to the viewer's discretion on what food they put on their plates, and which food they won't accept. my analogy kinda broke down at the end there but hopefully y'all understand what i mean LOL anywho, love finding good AOT enjoyers talk without letting the pressure and bias of their characters blinding them
@crowsva I think you said it pretty well And yes, I agree, it's a shame how many people don't get what this show is about Humans love to separate themselves and have then the nerves to put themselves about others and even demonize the other group. Here, Marley does it, but then the viewers totally start to demonize Marley, not understanding that it's just those who are in charge of the country who are truly wrong. The rest is just manipulated. Well, those in charge by that time also grew up in their propaganda, but the point is that this can happen on both sides. Which does happen with the Jaegerist. We are all products of our environment. We shouldn't judge people. We should judge bad behavior but not the people themselves. We should judge a system that creates this kind of behavior. I'm convinced that under the same circumstances, people would be the same. Rised with the same values and everything else that influences us. Sure, genetics plays a role, so yes, some people have more psychopathic tendencies, but you get what I mean I got a bit off topic. Anyway, I'm shocked how many hate the main characters because they care about all people... Fachism really takes people way too easily away. The irony is that with this mindset, if they were born on the other side, they would just hate their side instead.
It's great that Ishiyama took a shonen trope and then started applying irl logic to it His journey from only adding Eren because he felt it was an obligatory archetype to coming to like and understand his character is one of the big parts of why this manga works so well
When the episode ended and you went "IS EREN THE PROBLEM?!" I absolutely lost it. That was hilarious. I laughed so loud I think my neighbors think I'm crazy now 😂
The easiest way to understand it is that the fact Zeke brought Eren there in the memories allowed him to influence Grisha, cos it actually happened in the future. This wouldn't have been possible had Zeke never tried to show Eren these memories
The key is the attack titan can see memories of FUTURE Inheritors aka Erens memories. So all this time since s3 erens has known everything that was gonna happen he played role to the tea til he he finally got what he wanted which was to be pulled into Grishas memories once Zeke pulled him into there it was game set match. Also this is why Eren kruger mentioned mikasa and armin names without ever meeting these people. Eren was literally speaking directly to his father grisha through the owl in that last bit at the end. When they were on the wall. Writing in this show 10/10
The attack titan power is a lie. He can actually see other timelines and in turn can see what seems to be the future but are actually past timelines or just timelines. Thats why we saw the school caste. There’s something more left to AOT. Eren’s story is not over
Dina ate eren's mom, IF eren's dad ate the founder sooner he would of come into contact with dina when the walls fell. Eren could of shared that memory with his dad but he didnt.
What one person sees as "Brainwashing" others may see as "The Truth", it's a matter of perspective, views and values IMO. Many people around the world see religion as a great thing that gives people hope and meaning, others see as just that "brainwashing" or "Cult like" behavior. Where's the truth? Probably somewhere in between, much like what Zeke wants to show and describe to Eren. Was Grisha perfect? Far from it, but was he so evil and manipulative much like Zeke wanted to make him out to be? Also no. Because Grisha was human, and, as we learn, was also influenced by Eren himself.
Once again, the antagonist is the person who works against the main character. Eren is the protagonist since he drives the plot, but he is a *villain.* Being the antagonist has nothing to do with good and evil.
The reason why Grisha can see Zeke is because he's seeing him through Eren's memories. Every time Grisha sees Zeke Eren is always standing behind him facing Zeke behind Grisha.
Also the reason why Grisha makes that surprised face when staring at Eren is because he's directly looking at himself.
Also Eren telling Grisha that he's the one that started this story is the same line Eren Kruger said to him when giving him the attack titan.
I wonder if Isayama created this clever mechanic to use in this storytelling himself, or Eren just whispered on him to write it.
yea basically eren is live streaming what he seess to his dad in the past
because it is a "memory" even if it happened 1 second ago
How does he hug him then?
@@Сайтамен He is just hugging the air lol
Straight up, someone needs to write a guide specifically for the shenanigans in this episode. The writing is insanely good once you parse what’s actually going on, but it’s just tricky to think through all of the future memories stuff while you’re watching all of the craziness go down. This explanation is by far one of the clearest I’ve seen, so good writing here!
This episode is one of the best episodes in the history of all media period
Next one is just as good
Honestly this is my favorite ep in aot grishas va went all out on this one
Yeah I do think this is probably the best episode of the show
😂
“With my wife, son, and daughter” shit hurts, he really thought of Mikasa as part of the family without hesistation, best writing I’ve ever experienced in my whole fucking life
my wife and children*
The whole show has been Eren’s villain origin story. Epic storytelling.
Erin ain’t who you thought he was and neither was Zeke.
Whose Erin?
I'm Japanese.
Dai Tsuchida, who plays Grisha's father, is also an actor and appeared in Kakuranger in the Hero Sentai series.
He is the one who says "Huh?" on "Today is Friday in California," which became a meme in the United States a few years ago.
せやな
"Is Eren the problem?"... yes
Yeah, just a little bit😂
"I think Eren is the problem" I'm sorry but like how are you just realizing that lmao
yea I would think 4x5 with him purposefully killing innocents would be enough for most youtubers XD
@@apexplayer868 Armin blew up a whole lot more. and besides, Marley had just declared war on Paradis moments before.
@@SkaffaS armins goal was to kill the navy fleet in a WAR, of course its still wrong but theres a difference between collateral and purposely killing innocents. you yaegerists always blow my mind lmao
@@apexplayer868 He targeted the Marley military, innocent died from his transformation. It's not like he targeted them directly.
@@Сайтамен you just repeated what I said I agree with you, Unles youre talking about eren... He quite literally purposefully killed an entire apartment building full of innocents for absolutely no reason... There were a total of 0 military members in that apartment
The parallel between Attack Titan and Founding Titan is mind-blowing, Founding Titan's power is defined by it's predecessors but the Attack Titan's power is ultimately controlled by it's successors. This means Eren's been manipulating the holders of Attack Titan for over 2000 years just to get to the point where he is today???🤯
Eren Kruger and now : keep moving forward.Even if you die.Even after death..🔥
grisha VA is god
Amazing voice acting. 😢
Attack on Titan was such an S tier choice as a first anime. It's wildly popular, highly emotional, fast-paced and just overall mind bending. I can't wait for the rest of the season and to see your reactions!
Enjoy.
12:21 Things happened only BECAUSE he said it, which only happened because Zeke went through those memories in the first place. The attack titan cannot see the future directly, but holders of the attack titan can send memories back to previous holders, even before they got the titan (Why are you crying Eren?!). That's why Grisha asked why Eren did not show him what happened to Carla (12:40), he did not know her fate until he met up with young Eren at the refugee area before letting him eat him. So Eren went through the memories with Zeke, then told Grisha there, and then send Grisha the memories of telling him back to Grisha in that very moment. Same when Grisha was holding the key (8:05), he basically saw a memory of looking at himself which is why he was looking so shook. That's why Grisha was able to see Zeke, he saw him through Eren's eyes because Eren looked at him and send the memories of that moment back to Grisha at that moment. It's basically a time travel paradox because in order for things to turn out how they did he would have had to manipulate the past to make future events go the way they did.
13:12 Just remember what Eren said at the beach...
Attack on Titan is Eren's villain origin story. I'm surprised how no one gets that until after those episodes when they dropped so many hints for that throughout the seasons. To defeat monsters, one has to become a monster. Everyone conditioned him into this, including himself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Remember, all Titans are connected through the pathways where Eren and Zeke currently are. To access the power of the pathways, you need the key and someone of Royal blood. When Zeke and Eren touched they both gained immense power that could influence things beyond our comprehension because they were then connected to every single Titan ever pretty much
Also remember, Zeke's idea is NOT to end all of humanity. It's to end the Subject's of Ymir, or the people who can turn into Titans. Overall, this is probably a relatively small portion of the world as a whole, but it does include all the people we've come to love and care about in the show
Try to remember that time isn't linear like how we perceive the story, everything is happening all at once so no one is really making any choices, they've all already happened/are happening. Its all "fate" in a way.
Edit: Camilla, I suggest you to not read any comments until you're done watching the show. That includes probably mine too.
I love how when we first saw Eren kill those kidnappers. We never put too much thought into it, but later on the court, Nile even pointed out that even though it was self-defense, it shows that he lacks humanity.
Normally no kid would be able to murder someone not even in self defense and then later he told even his father that they were no men, he said they were animals and of course that's how an adult would see those kidnappers who were definitely psychopaths themselves but hearing that from a 9 year old kid is crazy. But not as crazy as how calculated he murdered them (again not saying that defending Mikasa was wrong but a child shouldn't be mentally be capable of doing this)
Amazing writing
I didn't at first, but the more I thought about how realistically the other characters behave, I started to question eren. Our expectations were a little subverted because it's anime, we expect that characters do superhuman things in a superhuman world, but with a bit of hindsight after the story gets rolling you realize his behavior is actually not the norm even in their world. And like you said, his actions are masked in the virtue and heroism of rescuing mikasa.
@lurkingknight exactly! I also didn't put too much thought into it at first because so many shows do not really have realistic characters, but in attack on titan the people really feel real.
I really love that Eren's story has some character development too but we all get distracted by everything else that's happening that we don't notice that what first made him a hero is the same thing that made him a villian. It's the one thing about him that didn't change that much. It's that he was always so extreme and demonized his enemies. And it gets even better yes he learns and feels later that the enemies aren't just bad either but he even lost more of his humanity during the story and it's actually something even Armin encouraged Eren to do in season 1. It's just when the context changed it backfired.
When titans would have been just monsters then Eren would have been a hero. But
@@howtoeverything5636 ooooh, loving this thread... i never considered the fact that even the show itself NEVER once implied that what Eren did was the morally correct thing to do. someone always called it out like "dude what the fuck is wrong with this kid". and we'd get offended or defensive for him, since we see it as him saving Mikasa from further trauma. and even still- i feel like since that episode, we all just kind of... accepted Eren to be sort of crazy. from his childhood being unhinged, to him savagely biting into his hand and ripping it off (regardless of the pain) just because he fucking wanted to do it like that, to the crazy shit he says way back when Reiner/Bertholdt captured him, and just... it really makes you appreciate the manipulation of feelings Isayama is able to convey, since throughout all of that, we never once considered it an issue. but the Final Season takes EVERYONE's character flaws and puts it on a silver platter, leaving it up to the viewer's discretion on what food they put on their plates, and which food they won't accept.
my analogy kinda broke down at the end there but hopefully y'all understand what i mean LOL
anywho, love finding good AOT enjoyers talk without letting the pressure and bias of their characters blinding them
@crowsva I think you said it pretty well
And yes, I agree, it's a shame how many people don't get what this show is about
Humans love to separate themselves and have then the nerves to put themselves about others and even demonize the other group. Here, Marley does it, but then the viewers totally start to demonize Marley, not understanding that it's just those who are in charge of the country who are truly wrong. The rest is just manipulated. Well, those in charge by that time also grew up in their propaganda, but the point is that this can happen on both sides. Which does happen with the Jaegerist.
We are all products of our environment.
We shouldn't judge people. We should judge bad behavior but not the people themselves. We should judge a system that creates this kind of behavior.
I'm convinced that under the same circumstances, people would be the same.
Rised with the same values and everything else that influences us. Sure, genetics plays a role, so yes, some people have more psychopathic tendencies, but you get what I mean
I got a bit off topic.
Anyway, I'm shocked how many hate the main characters because they care about all people...
Fachism really takes people way too easily away.
The irony is that with this mindset, if they were born on the other side, they would just hate their side instead.
It's great that Ishiyama took a shonen trope and then started applying irl logic to it
His journey from only adding Eren because he felt it was an obligatory archetype to coming to like and understand his character is one of the big parts of why this manga works so well
jajajajajja Is Eren the problem?
I love it !!!!!
0:52 that's baby Jesus 😂😂😂
When the episode ended and you went "IS EREN THE PROBLEM?!" I absolutely lost it. That was hilarious. I laughed so loud I think my neighbors think I'm crazy now 😂
The easiest way to understand it is that the fact Zeke brought Eren there in the memories allowed him to influence Grisha, cos it actually happened in the future. This wouldn't have been possible had Zeke never tried to show Eren these memories
The key is the attack titan can see memories of FUTURE Inheritors aka Erens memories. So all this time since s3 erens has known everything that was gonna happen he played role to the tea til he he finally got what he wanted which was to be pulled into Grishas memories once Zeke pulled him into there it was game set match.
Also this is why Eren kruger mentioned mikasa and armin names without ever meeting these people. Eren was literally speaking directly to his father grisha through the owl in that last bit at the end. When they were on the wall. Writing in this show 10/10
The attack titan power is a lie. He can actually see other timelines and in turn can see what seems to be the future but are actually past timelines or just timelines. Thats why we saw the school caste. There’s something more left to AOT. Eren’s story is not over
Dina ate eren's mom, IF eren's dad ate the founder sooner he would of come into contact with dina when the walls fell. Eren could of shared that memory with his dad but he didnt.
What one person sees as "Brainwashing" others may see as "The Truth", it's a matter of perspective, views and values IMO. Many people around the world see religion as a great thing that gives people hope and meaning, others see as just that "brainwashing" or "Cult like" behavior. Where's the truth? Probably somewhere in between, much like what Zeke wants to show and describe to Eren. Was Grisha perfect? Far from it, but was he so evil and manipulative much like Zeke wanted to make him out to be? Also no. Because Grisha was human, and, as we learn, was also influenced by Eren himself.
We are making AOT and are searching for people to fill some roles.
We are still searching for the main protagenist and the antagonist.
Eren "YES"!!
Once again, the antagonist is the person who works against the main character.
Eren is the protagonist since he drives the plot, but he is a *villain.* Being the antagonist has nothing to do with good and evil.
Told you.... Seatbelts!!! ^_^
Eren villain arc is the best in anime history
Like Eren said yes I may be a bad guy but to me the world is a bad guy
Eren dont like spoilers
And just like that, the biggest plot twist happened in anime history.
I'm sad you are getting close to the end! I hope the next anime you try is JUJUTSU KAISEN!! 🤞
We are 12 episodes in Jujutsu Kaisen 🩷