Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts - USS Montana vs H-44 Super Battleship - Legendary Encounters
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
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What would happen if the USS Montana, with her heavier broadside, would duke it out with the H-44, armed with 20-inch guns? Let's see what happens.
Disclaimer: the ships will not be entirely historically accurate. This is a game, not a simulator. I have tried building the ships as best I can within the confines of Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts.
Have a great idea for a battle? Battlecruiser Hood vs battleship Bismarck? Battleship Yamato vs battlecruiser Hood? Maybe heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen vs battleship Richelieu? Leave a comment down below!
0:00 Intro
0:35 USS Montana
3:00 H-44 Super battleship
6:10 Battle - round 1
13:40 Battle - round 2
16:53 Battle - round 3
Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts Intro music: "Goliath" by Scott Buckley - • 'Goliath' [Epic Orches... - www.scottbuckley.com.au
This video is not intended for children.
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Игры
Super Yamato(A-150) vs H-44, both have 20 inch guns and would be worthy opponents of each other
^ this. Battle of the Titans right here.
Kai-Yamato class would be better
Warning: loud Boom
Ah yes, atomic 510 mm guns
Tillman 4-2 with 15 18inch guns would probably belong in that league
Stealth: the montana might do better at short range.
H44: prepare your anus
That 1st salvo was absolutely disrespect
Hahahahahaha
that feeling when you get uptiered as a tier 8 against a tier 10
World of warships be like:
True
British R-class vs Pre retrofit IJN superdreadnaughts
German plan Z ships vs US experimental designs
Agincourt vs Nagato/Arizona (pre retrofit)
Fletcher vs Z-34 (any super Z class)
Le Fanatasque class Super Destoryers vs German Z class Super Destoryers
Nelson vs Bismarck
Vanguard vs North Carolina (or Washington)
Atlanta vs Graf Spee
Gneisenau ( 3x2 15 inch gun version) vs Renown (post modernization, or Hood)
Alsace vs H-39
Champagne (World of warships, real variation of a Gascogne class) vs North Carolina (or Washington)
Gascogne vs Kongō (or Fusō for a more fair fight)
Jean Bart vs Nagato
Montana vs Kai-Yamato class (variations on the Yamato class (World of warships Shikishima)
Iowa Vs Yamato (Done already)
Dreadnought vs Three 1800’s Pre Dreadnoughts (she was supposedly able to take three on as she was so advanced
N3-G3 vs A-150
N3-G3 vs H-41, or H-42...
Atlanta will be annihilated. I also think Agincourt has too thin an armour to fight anything better. Same with Kongo vs Gascogne and prefer a dunkirk for fair play. other than that, I'm fine.
A few things I would like to say about the designs you used:
The Germans loved their turtleback armour schemes, and H-44 would have been the same. Meanwhile the Americans used a lot of All-or-Nothing. I noticed you had the same citadel design for both ships (citadel 5, I forgot if that's AoN or Turtleback but it's one of those), so instead one should use citadel 4 and the other citadel 5
All the shells used are too heavy, especially the ones used on H-44. The Montana's 16in guns fired shells that were 1200kg compared to 1500kg in your design. Meanwhile the H-44 likely would have fired shells that would have been around 2000kg, compared to 2600kg in your design. This is because the "super-heavy" shells in game are actually way heavier than "super-heavy" shells IRL, and the Germans often used comparably light shells compared to the Americans. This may have had a decent impact on how much damage the H-44 was doing to the Montana, although it seems like H-44 was always going to win.
Regardless, great video, can't wait for the next one!
Nutty,
I noticed also that superheavy shells were not adopted by Germany (USN Only). The Germans were designing for North Sea and North Atlantic operations where visibility is often limited. Higher velocity flatter trajectory rifles were their preference. The web site: Nav Weapons is the best authority I know of.
HMS vanguard vs bismarck (both ships are similar enough to be placed in 1V1, hood was ww1 design so it is not the best choice for this type of engagement, also both of these ships where the most advanced ships build by respective nations)
What about the 1st of the H series v Vanguard.... Because Vanguard never seen WW2 and H series was the next step to the Germans as Vanguard was meant to be for the RN .
What about HMS Lion?
It was never made, but it was planed.
@@darrenandcjwe would have to take Ulrich Von hutten as shes the first H-class and smallest of them
The Montana's armor belt was angled , the effective thickness was around 19 or 20 in
Sadly I couldn't accurately portray that without adding a ton of displacement
@@Stealth17Gaming that's why I hate the construction model for this game. The weight is generalized and not any where near accurate to real weight values.
@@Stealth17Gaming That is why it is very hard to build historically accurate and designed because you have a lot of caveats to deal with as well as the constraints of the game.
That effective armor would depend on the range. The angle would have only made it 19 or 20 inch effective at close range. not at long range. Where having unangled belt would be an advantage.
@@weaponizedautism6589 depends on which way it's angled, it it's angled away from the ship at the top, then it would be thicker, and vice versa
Deutscland Class vs Bretagne Class, it would be really interesting to see the big girl vs a raider that have technology supremacy
nice episode, though the outcome was pretty clear with the calibre and massive tonnage difference.
btw, on German ships it is not A, B, X and Y turret but A, B, C, D
To be more precise, they were named Anton, Bruno, Cäsar and Dora.
Yeah it was pretty clear, but it was a suggestion that got a lot of upvotes, so people clearly wanted to see it anyway.
The turrets are called, anton, bruno, cesar and dora
@@Stealth17Gaming 16 " vs 16"
Nelson vs nagato..
Anton, Bruno, Caesar, Dora
Suggestions about next battle scenario about iowa class vs sovietsky soyuz
the pride of the US navy versus the ship that was dreamed to protect her motherland but never got a chance
A-150 vs the H-44. Or any of the H-class that would better suit that would be fun to see. Or Bismarck and Iowa.
I'd still love to see a hood vs Bismarck! That'd be a pretty interesting battle to see if the Hood can redeem itself!
Hood with the much needed armor upgrades and ship improvements
Hood and Bicmarck have several things that can't be reproduced in the game. Hood came to the fight very bad maintained, with a boiler working just by repair crews prays and that time equivalent of duct tape while Bismarck has a Turttleback scheme but a weird one since her power lines run in the outside of said citadel, also Big B had a wide bean making her better weapon platform but reducing the ability of her only three shafts to compensate a ruder loss. I think Big B also loss her radar after the first salvo but her stability a better and more modern optics (did I said before that Hood was very bad maintained and in need of a refit?) compensated that.
But a thing easy to reproduce in the game is the training, Hood was a training ship so their crew wasn't as trained as a normal Royal Navy ship would be.
I think a couple of things that would have had an impact are the advantage Allied nations had in radar and range finding over the Kriegsmarine, along with the use of 16" super heavy shells vs 20" standard shells.
Also the damage con and materials were better, with the belt angled, and many other things...
Montana was straight up a better design, properly thought out into the late phases up to construction, while H44 was basicly a "hey, what if we take Bismarck and maki him thrice as big in every possible regard?" More of a thought experiment than anything else. A more fair comparison would have been with H39, except it'd have been just as one sided to the other end ;P
@@antaresmc4407 Adding on the 30 second reload rate of the 16 inchers, although it will increase with less experianced crew or in sustained fire
Actually the allied nations didn't have any advantage by the time H-44 would of come out due to the Germans having developed very good radar, probably only being worse than the Americans. And rangefinders, again only inferior to the Americans, everything else they were superior, reload as well, German ships had strong reloads due to their designs, infact some estimations out Bismarck at 3 salvos per minute, and their stability was also comparable to the Americans. Atleast that is what I normally hear.
Hi there, i would love to see the H44 against the Musashi/Yamato!! THX for ur vids!!!
The A-150 class might have a chanche against the H-44 so you should try that
Imo in this game duals are king, you rather go with larger guns and just duals then with smaller guns but trips or even worse quads. As all that matters is hit chance and duals get the most.
And usually the decision of an engagement are made early on by who lands the first couple hits, as clearly seen in this case, as the one hit will then suffer from fire, flooding, damaged components or blow up turrets and has an even harder time to hit you back.
So i am sort of not surprised by the outcome of this engagement, even so the early taken out turret on the montana was lucky. The consistent damage done by the h44 is just evidence.
That first round went almost exactly like Bismark vs Hood.
Baltimore vs Mogami!
Mogami in real life performed badly due to things not included in game
Well it was bombed into oblivion. It wasn't able to fulfill it's true purpose
Doesn’t help that the Japanese had terrible anti air craft weapons
To be fair the Montana was more of upgraded Iowa and was very close to being built. The h-44 on the other was just a pipe dream. So in other words you have a dream ship vs a near reality ship.
Nicely done! That shot of the 20in shell ricochet was quite impressive.
Didn't think the Montana could manage that at all judging by the first two battles. Really nice video
Cheers
Azuma (Project B-65) vs. USS Alaska class Cruisers. It will be a rather interesting battle as Project B-65 was developed to fight the Alaska Class Cruisers. But sadly, the war ended before they got a chance to clash
As the person who made this scenario i must say that this is "a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one."
Edit: sooo... This was a tremendously one-sided battle. Oops..
😅
i was about to ask. in what world was that a surprise? xD
Would love to see the USS North Carolina face off against the Bismark. Not only is it a pretty decent fight. It almost happened in real life!
Agreed, almost happened a second time with their sister ship the Washington and Tirpitz.
Now THAT was a good Episode. I really enjoyed it. Thx. And you even enabled AI COntrol XD
Multiple scenarios:
Tegethoff vs Gangut (battle of the triple turret WWI battleships)
Admiral Hipper vs HMS Berwick
SMS Baden vs HMS Queen Elizabeth
Battle of River Plate recreation
Suggestion: HMS Renown vs. Gneisenau and Scharnhorst like in the Action of Lofoten
Scharnhorst Class
Displacement: 38900 ts (fully equiped)
Length: 234,9 m
Width: 30 m
Crew: 1670
Armament: 9x 28 cm Guns, 12x 15 cm Guns, 14x 10 cm Guns, 16 37 mm Flak, 6x 53 cm Torpedoes
Engines: Steamturbines, 160000 HP (119100 kW) -> 31.5 kn
Armour: Belt: -351 mm, Bulkheads: -201 mm, Deck: -51 mm, Turrets: -361 mm, Superstructure: -351 mm (Command deck) (Krupp cemented steel)
HMS Renown (after refit)
Displacement: 37400 ts (fully equpied)
Length: 242 m
Width. 27,4 m
Crew: 1200
Armament: 6x 38,1 cm (15"), 20x 11,4 cm, 24x 40 mm
Engines: Steamturbines, 130000 HP (97000 kW) -> 29 kn
Armour: Belt: -229 mm, Bulkheads: -102 mm, Deck: -76 mm, Turrets: -280 mm, Superstructure: -178 mm (Krupp cemented steel)
German shells tendet to be lighter for higher muzzle velocity, while British shells usually were heavier.
Source: Jane's Battleships of the Twentieth Century
1940s US navy battle doctrine dictated battleships would attempt to fight at stupidly long range. German doctrine dictated they would attempt to fight in close quarters. The Montana was never going to succeed in CQB against a ship twice its weight. She would’ve fared better with player control at long range.
Wouldn't the Germans' 20" guns and increased deck armour have been even more advantaged at longer ranges?
@@mortlet5180 Yes, the 508mm guns would have better plunging-fire capabilities, but at the same time because they're so massive they would actually maintain a pretty flat arc for quite a while and by the time you get plunging fire you're not hitting anything with naval artillery.
Can we get the Sovetsky Soyuz vs the Bismarck?
Bismark should be fairly obvious
Heres what I could find on Sovetsky Soyuz
Displacement: 59-60,000 tons standard load; 65,000 full
Propulsion: Single geared steam turbines
Fuel: She ran on oil, so whatever you want
Boilers: 6, 3 to each funnel
Range: 14,000 km, tho doesnt matter too much
Armament:
3 triple 16in in an ABX format
6 dual 6in
6 dual 4in
Loaders: Her main guns fired about 2-2.6 shots per minute, so probably about 25 second reload time
Turret Traverse: Electrically powered
Rangefinding: Stereoscopic V
Armor:
16.7 main belt
8.7 fore belt
7.1 aft belt
6.1 main deck
2.6 deck extended
19.5 turret face
9.1 turret top
16.7 conning tower
Barbettes: 16.7in thick, so probably barb 2-3
Speed: 28 knots
Torp belt: based on what I could find, she had a fairly extensive torp belt, so probably 3-4, but since shes not facing any, it shouldn't matter too much
Citadel: She actually used an armored citadel scheme rather than a turtleback scheme
Radar: She didn't carry radar, as the soviets hadn't put any effort into developing it until later in the war.
Hope thats enough, its all I could find without using wikipedia
Something I noticed is that German hulls have the highest resistance in the game and that stat reduces damage. German BBs can take a POUNDING.
The age-old hypothetical stand-off that we all want to watch since the discovery of Montana and Yamato: Yamato in her 1941 configuration Vs Montana as ordered
USS North Carolina vs the Tirpitz?
I think it's fair to say if indeed Germany would have built the h44 with 20" guns then the US would have attempted to match them or raise the armor level at least. Realistically we probably would have just sent a few carriers to torp her and the British would have had a field day dropping those grand slam bombs on that thing. It would have been much easier to hit than tirpitz for sure
H 39 is the only H class started. H 39 vs Iowa would probably be a decently close match
I love your comment about us Americans saying "yeah, yeah, we would just have dive bombed the thing." That is so accurate!!! :D
Well they did produce some 109 aircraft carriers during the war, and only 67 of them were the truck carriers. Soooooo....
The only thing the us was good at doing
H44
side armor 380mm=14.96 inch
Citadel armor 145mm=5.70 inch
Horizontal armor: upper deck 60mm=2.36 inch
upper armor deck 140mm=5.51 inch
lower armor deck 130=5.11 with slopes 150-200 mm=5.90-7.87 inch
Splinter deck 20mm=0.78 inch
underwater protection: T-bulkheads outside 40mm=1.57 inch
T-bulkheads inside 30mm=1.18 inch
T protection width not specified (I take the information from H42) 7.65m=301.18 inch
source of the information. the book, Schlachtschiffe und Schlachtkreuzer 1905-1970 by Siegfried Breyer.
Sorry but I don't think much of the wiki when I'm looking for precise information, because anyone can write nonsense there if they want to and that can lead to falsified data.
How about hood vs bismarck: nations' pride rematch?
I still want to see the Admiral Graf Spee against either the Hood or HMS Warrior
I'd love to see any of the Tillman battleships or Maximum battleships
Not many great sources on them as they're paper ships.
I doubt Tillman II would be possible due to the turret design
I would love to see a match between All your American and german ships you ever build yourself...
Bismarck Montana might be cool but beyond that I think it'd be awesome if you ran a tournament of ships including battleships and battlecruisers
Before I make a few small points, I wanted to say great job on the content; It's super enjoyable.
These points are based on Montana being an upscaled Iowa:
1) She'd have a triple bottom.
2) The rate of fire for each barrel of the triple-gun 16" turrets is 2 rounds/minute. It's nearly double that here. I didn't see the ROF for the 5" guns, but rates as high as 22 rounds/minute have been recorded on those.
3) Given the 18" (fore) and 15.25" (aft) armored bulkheads Montana was specced for, it's safe to say she'd have had reinforced bulkheads.
Thanks for the feedback.
1. Can't fit within displacement, which is already more than specified
3. Ok
@@Stealth17Gaming I've tried making the Montana in-game as well, and it can't be done -- at least from what I have seen -- while staying within her listed tonnage.
8:42 to 8:44
Captain on the Montana be like: Enemy warship just destroyed our well armored turret, causing lots of fire, and pen our deck armor like there were nothing... Maybe it is a heavy cruiser (CA??)
Bruh
My suggestion for the next 1v1: A battle of battlecruisers. The Lexington-class battlecruiser vs the Amagi-class battlecruiser.
This will be interesting!
The Montana is basically a iowa class battleship with 4 main turrets rather then 3
I'd like to see the maximum number of 20" barrels you can fit on a bb. Add maximum armor possible and lowest weight of everything else, then 1v50 against random ships
The best ( aka the most overpowered of the different designs) of the U.S. Tillman class super battleships (paper ships) vs. say 3 or 4 battleships of another navy of the same time period would be very interesting.
THis was completely different than I expected. I thought that with her higher volume of fire and fire rate the Montana would just shred the H-44 before her clunky, slow firing 20' could land a solid hit.
I'd love to see a fletcher class dd vs a shimakaze or akatsuki class dd, your choice
H44 is an awesome ship. U should try to put 4 quad 20 inch gun turrets instead of double barrel.
We definitely need to see the Bismark on this series.
Maybe against the Italian battleship Roma?
with the updates and Dreadnought improvement Mod, these legends matches might be worth a Rematch given the Turtleback damage resistance buff has been corrected.
I think a fairer fight would probably be either Großer Küfurst or Friedreich der Große
Well there is Hood vs Arizona and Prinz Eugen vs Indianapolis from before but how about H-44 vs Yamato.
It definitely feels like 16 inch just isnt enough against something that size, wouldn't really expect much from anything that isn't at least 18 inch I guess :( On the other side, 20 inch are almost too big against the montana, almost felt like they were just passing straight through if they didnt hit right.
THIS IS MADNESS!!! :D
2:40 Steath you won't find anything for conning towers on Montana because much like late war UK battleships they were not going to have them, just splinter/secondary protection.
It became clear late war that any main gun shell that hit the conning tower would kill based on shock alone, so having that much weight high in the superstructure was more of an issue then it helped.
Fair point. Thanks for clarifying.
Graff Spee vs HMS Exeter(or HMS Repulse/Renown), Battlecruisers brawl
Video idea admiral Graff spee vs Baltimore. (You will need to make spee 16.5k tons to fit everything. Also for the advanced armored cruiser hull if you select side guns for the 150mm you can put them on the sides like normal secondary guns.)
I just wanna see this because you never touch the advanced armored cruiser in your videos from what I've seen. There really fun meme hulls that bully other ships. Especially with the 283's (in game you need to use the 278 but that's game limitations)
Also there's no shame in using the wrong engine to get the funnel capacity needed to operate the ship at speed till they fix diesel engines and other propulsion that don't use boilers
WW2: Richelieu versus Littorio -- Interwar: Nelson vs Tosa -- WW1: Nevada vs Bayern -- Pre-War: Dreadnought vs. South Dakota -- Pre Dreadnought: Mikasa vs. Borodino
You got most of the armor scheme correct, but the extended decks are usually only 0.6 to 1.0 inches on most battleships, if not all, since most of them use All-or-Nothing or Turtleback anyways, which all have only a thin deck running along the bow and stern decks to stop cruiser HE shells and splinters.
This is one of those tough tradeoffs between game survivability and historical accuracy. Had I used the armor as you specified the battle would have been over even faster.
USS Indianapolis and Prinz Eugen would be a cool matchup
Bismarck vs Iowa would be cool
Hmm, the Alaska large cruiser versus the Scharnhorst battlecruiser, basically two light battleships facing off against one another.
I was half correct with the last prediction, never expected a ship as obscure as H-44 though
I saw a guy's post on Reddit who made a H-class variant with 4 triple 16 turrets
Matching that up against 2 SoDaks sounds kinda fun, I will make sure to translate it to IRP stats for the German one if you are interested!
what I think would be a cool series on this would be a like world Cup knock out stages, get like 6 ships put them into groups the respective groups battle it out the the best out of the groups battle it out in a final show down. call it clash of the titan's.
I'd love to do a tournament with subscriber sent in ships. That's not doable atm though. Shelving it till possible.
I suggest you run an encounter where the Graf Spee decided to break out of Montevideo and encounters the two Leander- class cruisers Ajax and Achilles
USS North Carolina vs Vittorio Veneto roughly equivalent in displacement and armament, from around the same periods and most of the info is on Wikipedia
Fellows I get a question if I want to creat the Colorado and the Arizona which hull should I use?
I wanna see Richleu Vs. Littorio
I would suggest potentially the Iowa class with the propsoed 18 inch gun configuration (3x2) or just Iowa vs Yamato
Uss Texas BB-35 Vs. Scharnhorst
The Texas was a part of the many convoy escorts for the lend lease act between the U.S and Britain In early WW2 before the U.S entered into WW2 and as well as the wolf pack I believe there was a (someone correct me if im very wrong) almost encounter with the Scharnhorst raiding party. But it be interesting to see the two duke it out
The only issue I have is the lack of realistic fire control for the two ships. The Montana would have used the same, if not improved, radar integrated fire control system of the Iowa class, which allowed US ships to fire over the horizon with unbelievable accuracy. The Germans on the other had less then ideal radar, and it was not integrated into fire control in an way, thus the need for them to close to visual range to hit anything. The Montana would have stayed out side the H-44's visual range and just shelled it to death, with the H-44 never having seen who was shooting at it.
I know 1 on 1s are the goal - but given the cost and displacement difference - a BB group of 1 Montana and 1 Iowa vs. H-44 might be a heck of a fight.
Littorio Class Battleship vs King George V class Battleship
I would like to see a confrontation between the USS Tillman IV-2 vs the H-44
Tirpitz vs. Littorio
Tirpitz's sauce: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Tirpitz
Littorio's sauce: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_battleship_Littorio
Its like watching the Enterprise fight the Scimitar, might as well be different categories of vessel.
Honestly, when i presented this match up I thought the engagements wouldn't be so one sided. It truly would have been scary had the germans gotten even one of these things on the open seas.
Probably not, just get torp'ed by a carrier
@@eaglestrike6408 from what i have read on the planning of the H-44 she would have had amazing anti torpedo armor and damage control tech. Plus with its defensive aa capabilities she would have still been a tough nut to crack.
@@grimmwolf9690 strong defences don't count for much when the Royal and US Navies has more ships and planes than the Kriegsmarine probably has canned bratwurst.
Vessels get overwhelmed and destroyed, like how Yamato was.
Also H-44 never takes into consideration whether the plan would it even work. They hadn't even got close to building it, who knows the kind of mechanical defects it would have.
regardless of reality or in game its physically impossible to have enough armor to protect a ship against 450mm+ guns.
youd need well over 1000mm of armor all around the ship which would put the weight well over 200000 tonns while hitting the structural limit of steel.
I'm curious if the Amagi class battle cruiser is worse in Admiral Dreadnought, and why not making a battle between the Amagi design and the Bismarck, it could be interesting (and if the Amagi design can't be creating, maybe replacing it by the Nagato, and make a battle against the Bismarck)
I'd love to Hood vs. Bismarck.
How about Amagi vs Bismarck? Seems like a pretty balanced fight,and if the Bismarck gets smoked you could give it Tirpitz's torpedoes and that would probably even it out
USS Arizona against the HMS Hood would be interesting considering both exploded in half lmao
I would like to see a fight between Iowa and Montana vs H-44 and Bismarck
Probably won't do it, but what if you replace the guns on the montana with 18in? Though turrets being twin mounted. I wonder what the difference would be.
ARA Rivadavia vs Almirante Latorre (Clash on the South)
Either Richelieu vs. any Littorio class bb or Dunkerque vs. Graf Spee. Could be cool to see if the French designs actually countered the ships they were designed in reaction to.
Something that would actually be a similar match for Montana would be a French Alsace class. 12 15" guns in 3 quads
Book "Schlachtschiffe-Schlachtkreuzer-1905-1970 Siegfried Beyer" used for less then 10 and new for 50 by amazon and you never have to say "i dint found something" ;-)
Warspite Vs Texas. The two most decorated Battleships of their respective navies from the Dreadnought era. Probably a mis-match with the game going to Warspite, but much closer than this.
Just imagine if you could do the H-45… 31,5in guns, 14 times more heavy and about triple the size of Bismarck
I think to make The ship look more like their real live counter part is to go whit the visual astetics.
How many Montana's would you need to sink one H44?
And now we need Yamato vs H-44)
Suggestion: IJN Yamato & USS Iowa in separate divisions vs. H44
Suggestion IJN shikishima (aka design A-150) vs H-45 or against USS Georgia
It was 17” ( plus change ) Conning Tower on the Iowa’s and a Montana is basically a heavily armed Iowa..🤷🏻♂️👍
North Carolina vs King George V.