@@GrosvnerMcaffrey No, it's about the money. it's ALWAYS about the money. When corporations do "woke things," it has *nothing* to do with the message and everything to do with attempting to pander to what they perceive is their audience to maximize profit. IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY.
@@GambitX37 Do you not realize that obsessing over the perceived ideology displayed in movies produced by profit-driven corporations... makes YOU the one who is ideologically obsessed? You DO get that, right? You know how irony works, I trust?
I like the idea of Harley loving the Joker for his violence and not necessarily for who he is… it’s a sad reality but I still don’t care about a second joker movie
Women are not attracted violence! It is money and power they like. With Harley Quinn in Batman the animated series, she fell in love with the Joker because she saw a kinder side to him that nobody else did. It was only after being with him over time Harley saw a darker side to the Joker but by this time his mind games had turned Harley into him!
5:50 The Joker?……Thee Joker?…..The character that’s been around for decades?…..The one that’s one of the most beloved villains of all time?……That Joker? Plz, they’re acting like they created the character or something 💀 I’m so tired of people in Hollywood thinking their audience is stupid and can’t think for themselves
The way the ending implies he becomes a leader of a nihilistic cultural movement is fascinating and would make for a strong sequel. But going by the trailer, none of that seems to happen.
@@Trazynn Right! I was thinking they should have done a One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest type story with Arthur leading the inmates of Arkham to rebel against the staff
It definitely feels like Joker was Magic in a Bottle. The controversy and politics behind its release is what made it as successful as it was. The Streisand effect my friends.
First Joker: grounded character study of an abused mentality ill man set in an large decaying city in the early 80s. Budget: 55 million Second Joker: guy in an asylum hallucinates a girl friend ( probably, I am just guessing here) and sings. Budget: 200 million. It seems like Hollywood can't let a simple success stand. It's like they have to immediately do something stupid to atone for doing something right.
@@joshpetzoldt6344 yeah. But realistically, who would allow criminally insane men and women to mix in the same asylum or prison in the 80s? Probably a moot point anyway after hearing a spoiler about the ending after l posted this. It doesn't sound promising.
@@thewildcard83 I mean, there are a lot of villains that are giving idolization or are constantly defended with their problems being overlooked, and so many characters and other balloons that are constantly demonized, and not given the same understanding (and I don’t mean justifying)
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674it’s sad that on one side you’ve got people with no understanding of nuance as they idealize the joker, missing the point that the story is a cautionary tale about the the consequences of a society that doesn’t have consideration for mental health, and then on the other side you’ve got people who ALSO have no understanding of nuance as they demonize the entire story, missing the exact same points that the other side misses. The two opposing sides have way more in common than they think; they both completely miss the point 😭
Let me guess its a trial drama that ends with Arthur in his cell and everything was just a product of his imagination and nothing from the first movie actually happened
It's just a lengthy boring courtroom drama and I heard at the end Harley breaks up with him because she realizes the joker isn't his true self then Arthur gets sent back to prison and stabbed to death by an inmate 💀
If it wasn't obvious that this was a middle finger to the fans before, when we found out it was a musical with Lady Gaga, that should have put it over the top.
Exactly what I'm saying. It didn't need to be a Joker movie and he had nothing in common with joker so why not just made it a regular mental illness movie?
Simple, brand name. It’s a powerful tool in selling. That’s why it did so well with it simple messaging and humanized approach to how Joker can exist in the real world. Even if it’s blunt force to the face.
Because it wasnt. Todd Phillips even made the Joker way older than Bruce Wayne to make sure we dont associate him with the Joker. Its even called Joker, no article. Hes just some crazy guy with an unreliable narrative.
I would agree with both of you if it wasn’t for three facts. At the end of the movie it shows the death of the Wayne’s as they leave the zorro movie, it was marketed as taking place in a dc universe, and we now have a second one with Harley Quinn. Even if we left it at the first one they could have left out the it’s a dc universe and the Wayne’s dying. Then he’s just a mentally disturbed man in a movie that happens to have the same name as one of the most famous supervillains in comics. They still get the brand name and a fantastic movie
@@codyraven8969 But that isn't really important to plot. Those are just basic events to remind the viewers we're in the DC universe and give a tease to batman. It wasn't like those were Major important. You could take those out the movie and nothing really changes
@@JoeWedgwood-ik9zo I think it's overrated but it's about on the same level as the first 2 and pretty much did what it promised which is give the fans a Deadpool and wolverine team up and entertain you for 2 hours. Def not a masterpiece or saving the MCU but did it's job and made a ton of money
I understand what you're saying now, and I agree. I am still going to judge it for myself, but I get where you're coming from with what is being said. I feel the same way, being SO invested in this character and always getting your hopes up just to be put down. Getting more into my other favorite characters and media has been a breath of fresh air. I frequently need to take a break from Harley Quinn because of all the reasons you said. It's not worth the let down anymore. I do hope I like Joker 2 and it doesn't end up being another Harley and Joker flop. That would be a shame unless someone personally enjoy it. I'm gonna see it but I can't say I'm not nervous. I've said it from the beginning, they should've just done Mad Love live action!
I'm a bit skeptical because sometimes the media will give a film unnecessary bad publicity by attacking fans preemptively when the film actually is normal. It's like they can't help themselves. I hope the rumors are wrong because I loved the first film, and the critics who hated the first one just wanted to have a soapbox to lecture on.
I’ve been saying since this was announced. This sequel only happens because the original joker was super popular with disenfranchised young men. That couldn’t stand. Hollywood hates men and masculinity. This movies only goal is to subvert the first film. Just my opinion.
I'm so tired of all these movies about villains which don't feature the heroes they should be fighting. Venom and Joker should be in Spider-Man and Batman movies.
Venom isn't so bad since he can stand on his own and rarely even runs into Spider-man after their initial hate for each other, Venom's creation, and when Venom is a straight up Villain. Joker really can't not for more than one movie at least
@@IndecisiveJR True but he still Needs Spidey to even become Venom in the first place. Also those Venom movies changed so much about the character it's not even worth watching. Hell, in those movies, the symbiote is called Venom and not Eddie and the symbiote together. That alone annoys me to no end.
My first turn-off from the movie was when they announced it would be a musical. But when I keep hearing more and more about the film, I somehow got less and less interested
Wow! You are really speaking to my concerns and thoughts... I'm so torn. This is the most I've head about the film. I always avoid info before seeing things i care about, even remotely, and i want to give it a chance...i want to see a different, better, portrayal of Harley.
For years when a movie gets a fallowing after the fact they blame the audience for not being there.Instead of saying the truth which was these were not movies that anyone wanted to make and lucky people liked because lack of content.Alan Ritchson spoke about how no one wanted to do the CG Ninja Turtles movies years ago.
These so-called top reviewers are more than likely to trash the film on a personal level because the first one was so successful. On the other hand, I was worried that Todd Phillips would lecture the audience that everything the Joker did was bad so you shouldn't like him. We'll see, I will check it out in the theater but my expectations are pretty low especially since it's a musical.
Oh man, i am interested in seeing if this film is actually ass or not. I am nervous for me but the first joker probably should have just been 1 movie, it didnt need more films
The thing is - Arthur Fleck is not the Joker. He never was. They just used DC skin and DC elements to sell the movie. He is not Clown Prince of Crime , he’s not Batman’s sworn enemy, he’s not mastermind. He’s just mentally ill middle-aged loser guy who put makeup on
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp there were so many other DC characters that deserve a tragic villain movie much more than the joker. And black Adam could have been that if not for Dwayne Johnson.
I thought the point of the first joker was that society is cruel to people considered outsiders, abnormal, or strange. And that if we don’t change, that men like Arthur could become heroes to the disenfranchised and downtrodden people of society.
This is going to be the best DC Film ever made. Best version of Joker & Harley Quinn. This is how all DC movies should be. Some folks just have it twisted, don't get it twisted holmes. I hope when it comes out folks will recognize that it's the best DC movie yet, an show some respect for the film.
On the Chani subject. I've ran into a bizarre amount of people who still don't understand the message in Dune's ending even though they made it more obvious than the book. Frank Herbert was supposedly a bit mithed that people kept missing the point of his book so I have some sympathy for the film trying to spell it out a bit more clearly.
The first film was meh. I don't know why people act like it was better than it was. As for the second movie, if it does go down the fan bashing move, it's not surprising. Have you seen the actor and people involved with the movie and have you seen what they said? Not surprising.
OMG ITS THE SAME SITUATION WHEN FIRST MOVIE CAME OUT! People say that don’t like it, it makes them uncomfortable. Those are MCU/Disney fans talking, they want the 2nd movie to fail…AGAIN!
I think the only compelling thing about the first movie was the Joker persona. The rest of the movie did it's best to undercut the Joker. The fun hallucinated relationship with the neighbor (which I think is the laziest type of twist, generally) is a prime example. If they were trying to hype the Joker, they would have had him seduce the neighbor, and then have her become horrified after finally seeing how nihilistic he actually was. They wanted a Taxi Driver vibe, but emulating the creepy "hero" origin story of Taxi Driver is problematic these days, so they took most of the edges off.
If you're still emotionally invested in an IP that is corporately owned, you have to prepare yourself for the inevitability that it will eventually suck. And suck hard.
For a guy who started his career asking serial killer (John Wayne Gacy) to create a poster for his doc on GG Allin, it's quite hilarious that he's now talking down to audience members who enjoyed a FICTIONAL serial killer's story. Arthur isn't real, he can't hurt anyone. Joker was simply another movie the moralists used as a scapegoat for an explanation of violent behaviour. Just like certain video games and movies that have been blamed before. The irony is that Joker makes you empathise with Arthur's horrendous upbringing, a thing that actually influences people to grow into monsters. Most abused people don't grow up to be abusers but the vast majority of abusers have been abused themselves.
The movie lost most of its momentum with one word "musical." That killed a lot of interest. The first movie was going to be almost impossible to follow up anyway. Just because of the more realistic take on the character.
With Joker, Phillips experienced a phenomenon similar to what Stanley Kubrick went through with A Clockwork Orange. He made a movie with an evil protagonist and didn’t understand why some of the audience liked the character. Often, people who are intellectual, with high ideals and morals, underestimate the drives of the common human. I guess with Joker 2, he’s trying to correct the trauma caused by Joker being received in a way he didn’t expect. If you look at Arthur Fleck’s actions in Joker, he really is a very bad and troubled person. He’s not someone you’d want to be friends with or have anywhere near you for your own safety and well-being. I think Todd Phillips took the character more seriously than the audience did.
The mentally ill? The workers!? Joker spoke (unintentionally, probably) to men abandoned by society. Phillips and Phoenix love that Joker made a billion dollars. They hate that "insells" gave them that billion dollars. Foile A Duh has been made with contempt for the generous audience as an ultimate stroke of revenge. Consider this: does anyone think Phoenix getting ripped apart after Napoleon has nothing to do with his attitude regarding this film he never even wanted to make.(rhetorical)
Guys Give this movie a chance this is elseworld story Harley will be patient in Arkham cause they wonna do smth new because that's why this movies are in elseworld but don't worry we will see Joker & Harley from the comics in James Gunn Universe probably people just need to remember that's elseworld movies soo directors can do anything they want including changing some of the popular villans arc stories and that's why many people are going to see it cause they wonna now how this all plays out ( for example The Batman was a huge succes or the first Joker ) and yes they are many people that are saying "it's a musical nobody asking for it" but still a bunch of people will go to see it to find out how this all plays out what will be movie about and also the musical aspect make a lot of sense i feel like people forget that Joker and Harley dancing and singing in comics also so it isn't smth totally new but people are still hating and i get why they just scared that this was unnecesary sequel that this will destroy a "Perfect" Joker ending and i'm worried about that too but i think we have to give it a chance and the fact that criticts reviews are mixed and devided only hyped me even more ( cause the first one Has also mixed reviews ) and if the movie was produced by new director etc then yes i would be worried but it's made by the same people i trust Todd Phillips and also Phoenix never do a sequel never so the fact he play the same character twice for the same time gives me hope 🔥
...this is why I hated Furiosa. I am not a mentally challenged chimp to need the ffken villain to yell from the top of his voice "THIS WORLD'S CRUELTY IS WHAT MAKES ALL OF US CRAZY". I took ONE LOOK at the Immortan Joe in the opening of Fury Road, and i instantly knew that's what this was about. Dementius spelling out every single theme from Fury Road is the greatest insult to everyone older than 7 who saw these movies.
I agree marketing joker2 as a musical was HUGE mistake.... unless joker 2 lives up to the rocky horror picture show...I really hope it's not boring as the reviewers say....
Wuh-oh. Be back! "Who needs a masters degree, when you got Google?" JESTERBELL! I AM SORRY! I've been wanting to watch your first "The Quack" short film, especially since I liked your "The Quackening 2" so much, and thiis is how youu reminddd meeeee...also, forgot how the rest of that Nickelback song goes....I liked them as a kid. Also, Creed. Human Clay was one of my favorite albums I purchased as a kid! I moved on from them....actually into really bad music so....what's my point? Whatever, I think Creed's Human Clay...maybe I'm misremembering but, and yeah, everybody's emotionally biased but I thought, in attempt to be impartial, I remember that being a good album and I rather listen to that than the Beatles. I despised them as a little kid and I don't want to listen to them now. My friend gave me his album to listen to, and I didn't listen...didn't listen to a lot of things back then...wait what? jk lol You're hilarious. hhahahaha I just saw your skit! I'm so sanely stoked happily Harley Hyped for your new short film! And, JesterBell, my memory sincerely stinks so I don't know movie you're talking about but surprises are great....however, and not that I didn't think you weren't modest and humble before (confusing wording, no? Talk like Yoda I do or do not there is no try!) but this is a very modest and humble video for your 23k subscribers and 400th video! Congratulations! I'm singing the JesterBell Rock! JesterBell, JesterBell, JesterBell Rock You play the funniest Quackening What's Up Doc Dancin' and prancin', Great Bouncing Clowns it's Hip to Be Square Nice Harley Quinn fans like you deserve good Harley Quinn movies... it only fair! =) Hope you and your family have a wonderful week!
We are a nation of villains who put villains on pedastals. Its quite obvious that fans were celebrating Aurthurs chaotic response to his environment. No matter how much they tried to wrap it in a bs blanket of empathy fans are celebrating villainy. Calling Harley an anarchist is just further evidence of ignorance. Harley is a violent sociopath without a code of ethics. To attribute her behavior to a political ideology is utterly ridiculous, and slanderous propaganda against anarchism.
The Director wanted to make one joker movie it cleared $1 billion the studio got greedy and insist on a sequel. He makes it a boring musical that flops so he don’t get stuck with a franchise.
It would subvert expectations if they hired Lady Gaga to not sing but then I suppose we're stuck with her acting instead. while everyone else sings that would torment harley that could actually be a comedy 😂
I like the first one I shed a few tears for Arthur I don't really see it as a joker movie though I just see it as a movie about the world life. But I have zero interest in a sequel
People aren't allowed to have favorite characters that are the antagonists? Is it wrong if Darth Vader is your favorite? Is it wrong if you like Lex Luther as a character? Heath Ledger's Joker was by FAR my favorite character out of DC's universe. Mark Hamill's Joker is terrific even if he's only the voice.
The way you feel about Harley, is the exact same way I feel about Spider-Man and Mary Jane; Hollywood and the bosses at Marvel don't understand and hate them.
@iraford5788 yes.... but how long will it last? We need that kind of Spider-Man and Mary Jane in the movies and cartoons more so we can normalize the idea of an older Peter Parker that's married, and a Mary Jane who is a kind, compassionate and loyal person.
@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 true but that is only one somewhat small part in a movie, I am talking like it being the center of an entire live action Spider-Man movie or a Peter B Parker and family cartoon, or even Spider-Man 98 if that happens.
I didn't get it. How are people who idealize the Joker and want Arthur to commit violence a metaphor for fans of the first film? That bit was there, and the sequel naturally follows it.
media is subjective. Nobody can speak on a movie like this until they actually see it. The first joker had a feel & vibe that wasn’t for everyone but was overlooked because of how people sympathize & viewed arther. This movie is not only a musical but it’s a joker movie which will be an entirely different character that you only got to see for end of the film. This was always going to be a uphill movie. What you normies don’t understand is that you need the Batman dynamic for joker to be joker. The character has admitted he needs batman. We will all have to wait & see what story this movie is telling. if I watch any reviews it will only be from true comic book fans who understand the character & not normies
Girl I feel you. They try to make Harley a girlboss, I need no man icon in the modern media, when thats is very much NOT the character. She is INSANE. About a man , and just in general.
I wouldn’t take these critics seriously after all they said the first film was that it wasn’t. The argument that the film hates its audience is weak due to the reasoning for it. Arthur was already portrayed as a false idol/symbol at the end of the first film so this just seems to be a progression of that idea. Todd Phillips has also denied the film is a response to critics of the first one.
the feminists/leftists needed to step in & ruin this franchise by making it everything the first joker film was BECAUSE of it's empathy/sympathy towards men...we can't be doing that in the 20's Matriarchy
Im sick of Joker,Harley, or anything related to woke or superheroes. They took some decent characters and re-skinned , re-made over and over to the point they got boring , stale and deprived of a stable identity because each time a writer picks them up, they do whatever they want out of them, ti'll the character is no longer who they were or end up with a ton of copy-cat characters surrounding them . At this point i rather read only indie comics that are loyal to the characters and their visions and don't try to force upon me their ideologies or whatever anime or manga is still good out there.
I myself have little to no faith in this movie. One of the things that made the first Joker so special was that it felt like a self contained, one-and-done. A neat little elseworlds story. However, I don't know if, given the information presented in this video, I would go so far as to say Joker 2 "hates its audience". The sad fact is, there ARE a bunch of people who idolize the Joker, both before and after the first film. The same type of people who missed the point of Joker (2019) also missed the point of The Dark Knight back in 2008 and The Killing Joke all the way back in 1988. Call it a vocal minority if you will, but the amount of comments I've seen praising the Joker character as some sort of philosophical, genius are frustratingly high and frequent. That said, if this movie is going out of there way to call out that sect of Joker fans that undoubtedly exist, I see no problem with it. It's all about execution, which remains to be seen. Still, there are plenty of other reasons to believe Joker 2 will most likely be a disappointment, especially when compared to the first film.
To be fair, the general audience gets the message pretty clearly. But there's more than enough Heath ledger's Joker fans that are just in love with the rebel psycho clown. People making him deeper than he actually is. Same folks who idolize Rick from Rick and Morty and Walter White and so on
The expectations for this was already low. Yeah, the musical aspect of it was a turn off. But, now they are trying to push negative attitutes towards the Joker, that's just annoying.
If someone wants no story details whatsoever, and wants to go in as blind as possible, maybe add a mild spoiler warning to this video, which I realized a minute in, that I'm going to need to skip. I'll just say I'm not reading the reviews because I don't want anything influencing my opinion going in, and that mainstream critics already proved with the first movie that they can't be trusted when it comes to this franchise. (Yes, it's weird that Joker is a 'franchise' now)
I wish the follow up to this movie had been an actual Batman movie with this very well-developed version of the joker as the nemesis. It could have shown flashes of his vulnerable former self which would actually feel real. It could have been better than the dark night.
Films that trash the audience tend not to do well. Hollywood hasn't learned that lesson because they inevitably keep doing it.
It's not about the money it's about sending a message
When you're ideologically-possessed you don't learn. In fact, you drown out all other opinions or dissenting voices because you KNOW you're righteous.
@@GrosvnerMcaffrey No, it's about the money. it's ALWAYS about the money. When corporations do "woke things," it has *nothing* to do with the message and everything to do with attempting to pander to what they perceive is their audience to maximize profit. IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY.
@@GambitX37 Do you not realize that obsessing over the perceived ideology displayed in movies produced by profit-driven corporations... makes YOU the one who is ideologically obsessed? You DO get that, right? You know how irony works, I trust?
@@interdimensionalsteve8172 but yet they always seem to lose it
I like the idea of Harley loving the Joker for his violence and not necessarily for who he is… it’s a sad reality but I still don’t care about a second joker movie
Women are not attracted violence! It is money and power they like. With Harley Quinn in Batman the animated series, she fell in love with the Joker because she saw a kinder side to him that nobody else did. It was only after being with him over time Harley saw a darker side to the Joker but by this time his mind games had turned Harley into him!
@@MikePhillips-x6mit’s almost as if every woman is different genius. We’re not getting a comics accurate Harley quinn anyways
5:50 The Joker?……Thee Joker?…..The character that’s been around for decades?…..The one that’s one of the most beloved villains of all time?……That Joker? Plz, they’re acting like they created the character or something 💀 I’m so tired of people in Hollywood thinking their audience is stupid and can’t think for themselves
The first Joker was only meant to be a 1 film and done.
Agreed
The way the ending implies he becomes a leader of a nihilistic cultural movement is fascinating and would make for a strong sequel. But going by the trailer, none of that seems to happen.
@@Trazynn Right! I was thinking they should have done a One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest type story with Arthur leading the inmates of Arkham to rebel against the staff
but $$$$$$ talks...
Just like most movies that were turned into franchise because the first one made money.
It definitely feels like Joker was Magic in a Bottle. The controversy and politics behind its release is what made it as successful as it was. The Streisand effect my friends.
First Joker: grounded character study of an abused mentality ill man set in an large decaying city in the early 80s. Budget: 55 million
Second Joker: guy in an asylum hallucinates a girl friend ( probably, I am just guessing here) and sings. Budget: 200 million.
It seems like Hollywood can't let a simple success stand. It's like they have to immediately do something stupid to atone for doing something right.
They have to atone for appealing to young disenfranchised men. Can’t have that.
I can't believe they'd have Joker hallucinating a girlfriend for a second time.
@@joshpetzoldt6344 yeah. But realistically, who would allow criminally insane men and women to mix in the same asylum or prison in the 80s? Probably a moot point anyway after hearing a spoiler about the ending after l posted this. It doesn't sound promising.
Only idiots would legitimately idolise the villain to the point they need a new movie to reinforce that you shouldn’t lol.
@@thewildcard83 I mean, there are a lot of villains that are giving idolization or are constantly defended with their problems being overlooked, and so many characters and other balloons that are constantly demonized, and not given the same understanding (and I don’t mean justifying)
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674it’s sad that on one side you’ve got people with no understanding of nuance as they idealize the joker, missing the point that the story is a cautionary tale about the the consequences of a society that doesn’t have consideration for mental health, and then on the other side you’ve got people who ALSO have no understanding of nuance as they demonize the entire story, missing the exact same points that the other side misses. The two opposing sides have way more in common than they think; they both completely miss the point 😭
@@Musical_parks Gen Z in a nutshell
They should have just kept making joker movies that were different origins with the same unreliable narrator ending. Even recast him every time.
hrmm, "People who didn't get the Medication they needed" the Modern day Audience ?
Let me guess its a trial drama that ends with Arthur in his cell and everything was just a product of his imagination and nothing from the first movie actually happened
It's just a lengthy boring courtroom drama and I heard at the end Harley breaks up with him because she realizes the joker isn't his true self then Arthur gets sent back to prison and stabbed to death by an inmate 💀
@@mightguy3118 it’s 100% legit.
If it wasn't obvious that this was a middle finger to the fans before, when we found out it was a musical with Lady Gaga, that should have put it over the top.
I think personaly they made it a musical just to have her in
@@svetlanaandrasova6086 Joaquin is the one who suggested lady gaga and it being a musical smh
Lady gaga is a phenomenal actress. That wasent a problem.
I’ve said it before I’ll say it again. The first one was a spectacular movie. It had zero reason to be called a joker movie
Exactly what I'm saying. It didn't need to be a Joker movie and he had nothing in common with joker so why not just made it a regular mental illness movie?
Simple, brand name. It’s a powerful tool in selling. That’s why it did so well with it simple messaging and humanized approach to how Joker can exist in the real world. Even if it’s blunt force to the face.
Because it wasnt. Todd Phillips even made the Joker way older than Bruce Wayne to make sure we dont associate him with the Joker. Its even called Joker, no article. Hes just some crazy guy with an unreliable narrative.
I would agree with both of you if it wasn’t for three facts. At the end of the movie it shows the death of the Wayne’s as they leave the zorro movie, it was marketed as taking place in a dc universe, and we now have a second one with Harley Quinn.
Even if we left it at the first one they could have left out the it’s a dc universe and the Wayne’s dying. Then he’s just a mentally disturbed man in a movie that happens to have the same name as one of the most famous supervillains in comics. They still get the brand name and a fantastic movie
@@codyraven8969 But that isn't really important to plot. Those are just basic events to remind the viewers we're in the DC universe and give a tease to batman. It wasn't like those were Major important. You could take those out the movie and nothing really changes
The Caped Crusader Harley dressed like a jester as a reference to Carl Jung. All of her victims were dressed the same way.
I too enjoyed that version of Harley.
At least Deadpool and Wolverine delivered
I guess so
LFG!
Did it though? Apart from the cameos there was nothing to it. Even deadpool himself seemed toned down ..
@@JoeWedgwood-ik9zo I think it's overrated but it's about on the same level as the first 2 and pretty much did what it promised which is give the fans a Deadpool and wolverine team up and entertain you for 2 hours. Def not a masterpiece or saving the MCU but did it's job and made a ton of money
The first joker was enjoyed by the wrong people, so they need to fix that. It’s a religious thing for them.
I think it was enjoyed by the right people for the wrong, or at least inadequate, reasons as well.
I have no interest in this film. I just came by to show support for this channel!
I understand what you're saying now, and I agree. I am still going to judge it for myself, but I get where you're coming from with what is being said. I feel the same way, being SO invested in this character and always getting your hopes up just to be put down. Getting more into my other favorite characters and media has been a breath of fresh air. I frequently need to take a break from Harley Quinn because of all the reasons you said. It's not worth the let down anymore. I do hope I like Joker 2 and it doesn't end up being another Harley and Joker flop. That would be a shame unless someone personally enjoy it. I'm gonna see it but I can't say I'm not nervous. I've said it from the beginning, they should've just done Mad Love live action!
I'm a bit skeptical because sometimes the media will give a film unnecessary bad publicity by attacking fans preemptively when the film actually is normal. It's like they can't help themselves. I hope the rumors are wrong because I loved the first film, and the critics who hated the first one just wanted to have a soapbox to lecture on.
I’ve been saying since this was announced. This sequel only happens because the original joker was super popular with disenfranchised young men. That couldn’t stand. Hollywood hates men and masculinity. This movies only goal is to subvert the first film. Just my opinion.
I'm so tired of all these movies about villains which don't feature the heroes they should be fighting. Venom and Joker should be in Spider-Man and Batman movies.
Venom isn't so bad since he can stand on his own and rarely even runs into Spider-man after their initial hate for each other, Venom's creation, and when Venom is a straight up Villain. Joker really can't not for more than one movie at least
@@IndecisiveJR True but he still Needs Spidey to even become Venom in the first place. Also those Venom movies changed so much about the character it's not even worth watching. Hell, in those movies, the symbiote is called Venom and not Eddie and the symbiote together. That alone annoys me to no end.
My first turn-off from the movie was when they announced it would be a musical.
But when I keep hearing more and more about the film, I somehow got less and less interested
Me too. Sequel makes no sense and musical even less
Todd made this movie determined to piss off everyone who liked the first one.
Wow! You are really speaking to my concerns and thoughts... I'm so torn. This is the most I've head about the film. I always avoid info before seeing things i care about, even remotely, and i want to give it a chance...i want to see a different, better, portrayal of Harley.
For years when a movie gets a fallowing after the fact they blame the audience for not being there.Instead of saying the truth which was these were not movies that anyone wanted to make and lucky people liked because lack of content.Alan Ritchson spoke about how no one wanted to do the CG Ninja Turtles movies years ago.
''M and ends with a T'' Mortal Kombat? lol
Oh I thought it was Minecraft hahaha
These so-called top reviewers are more than likely to trash the film on a personal level because the first one was so successful. On the other hand, I was worried that Todd Phillips would lecture the audience that everything the Joker did was bad so you shouldn't like him. We'll see, I will check it out in the theater but my expectations are pretty low especially since it's a musical.
you are gonna pay to watch a musical lol
Get to the point!
Oh man, i am interested in seeing if this film is actually ass or not. I am nervous for me but the first joker probably should have just been 1 movie, it didnt need more films
The thing is - Arthur Fleck is not the Joker. He never was. They just used DC skin and DC elements to sell the movie. He is not Clown Prince of Crime , he’s not Batman’s sworn enemy, he’s not mastermind. He’s just mentally ill middle-aged loser guy who put makeup on
Exactly, this movie would've been fine as it's own thing and not a DC movie.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp it’s a dc else worlds movie it’s already it’s own thing
@@Chronic41745 notice how I also said "and not a DC movie."
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp yes because you’re the total authority on what DC did and didn’t do.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp there were so many other DC characters that deserve a tragic villain movie much more than the joker. And black Adam could have been that if not for Dwayne Johnson.
I thought the point of the first joker was that society is cruel to people considered outsiders, abnormal, or strange. And that if we don’t change, that men like Arthur could become heroes to the disenfranchised and downtrodden people of society.
0:10 Moonlight? If so, cool to see you talk about my favorite A24 film
This is going to be the best DC Film ever made. Best version of Joker & Harley Quinn. This is how all DC movies should be. Some folks just have it twisted, don't get it twisted holmes. I hope when it comes out folks will recognize that it's the best DC movie yet, an show some respect for the film.
👍
Unplanned sequels are always a mistake
On the Chani subject. I've ran into a bizarre amount of people who still don't understand the message in Dune's ending even though they made it more obvious than the book. Frank Herbert was supposedly a bit mithed that people kept missing the point of his book so I have some sympathy for the film trying to spell it out a bit more clearly.
Honestly Lady Gaga would probably make a good Harley Quinn but the writing for her in this movie was just not it
The first film was meh. I don't know why people act like it was better than it was. As for the second movie, if it does go down the fan bashing move, it's not surprising. Have you seen the actor and people involved with the movie and have you seen what they said? Not surprising.
This obviously should have just been an art house styled take on Mad Love that’s all they had to do..🤦🏼♀️
OMG ITS THE SAME SITUATION WHEN FIRST MOVIE CAME OUT! People say that don’t like it, it makes them uncomfortable. Those are MCU/Disney fans talking, they want the 2nd movie to fail…AGAIN!
I hope you’re wrong jester but we’ll see
I saw the first joker movie many times in the theater. It made me want to improve my life think more positively be the opposite of Arthur
I think the only compelling thing about the first movie was the Joker persona. The rest of the movie did it's best to undercut the Joker. The fun hallucinated relationship with the neighbor (which I think is the laziest type of twist, generally) is a prime example. If they were trying to hype the Joker, they would have had him seduce the neighbor, and then have her become horrified after finally seeing how nihilistic he actually was. They wanted a Taxi Driver vibe, but emulating the creepy "hero" origin story of Taxi Driver is problematic these days, so they took most of the edges off.
Damn, maybe it was all a dream in the end? That would waste a lot of people's time 🤔
If you're still emotionally invested in an IP that is corporately owned, you have to prepare yourself for the inevitability that it will eventually suck. And suck hard.
The first Joker movie is one of the most overrated things ever.
Saw Joker once, barely remember it. Definitely not watching 2.
For a guy who started his career asking serial killer (John Wayne Gacy) to create a poster for his doc on GG Allin, it's quite hilarious that he's now talking down to audience members who enjoyed a FICTIONAL serial killer's story.
Arthur isn't real, he can't hurt anyone. Joker was simply another movie the moralists used as a scapegoat for an explanation of violent behaviour. Just like certain video games and movies that have been blamed before. The irony is that Joker makes you empathise with Arthur's horrendous upbringing, a thing that actually influences people to grow into monsters. Most abused people don't grow up to be abusers but the vast majority of abusers have been abused themselves.
Phillips and Phoenix got high on thier own supply. I smell a box office b omb
The movie lost most of its momentum with one word "musical." That killed a lot of interest. The first movie was going to be almost impossible to follow up anyway. Just because of the more realistic take on the character.
A court room drama that cost $200 million? Can you say money laundering?
All I have to say about anarchist Harley is: Paint the Town Blue, Riots All Around You!
With Joker, Phillips experienced a phenomenon similar to what Stanley Kubrick went through with A Clockwork Orange. He made a movie with an evil protagonist and didn’t understand why some of the audience liked the character. Often, people who are intellectual, with high ideals and morals, underestimate the drives of the common human. I guess with Joker 2, he’s trying to correct the trauma caused by Joker being received in a way he didn’t expect.
If you look at Arthur Fleck’s actions in Joker, he really is a very bad and troubled person. He’s not someone you’d want to be friends with or have anywhere near you for your own safety and well-being. I think Todd Phillips took the character more seriously than the audience did.
@@primalplasma I think the audience took it seriously, but in a different and kind of irrational and immature matter
Lady Gaga musical... that killed the hype for me. Joker works as standalone imo.
I’m not gonna see it after watching this thx
The first film did point the finger at the audience to, albeit more subtle. Pissubly this film is doubling down
The mentally ill? The workers!? Joker spoke (unintentionally, probably) to men abandoned by society. Phillips and Phoenix love that Joker made a billion dollars. They hate that "insells" gave them that billion dollars. Foile A Duh has been made with contempt for the generous audience as an ultimate stroke of revenge. Consider this: does anyone think Phoenix getting ripped apart after Napoleon has nothing to do with his attitude regarding this film he never even wanted to make.(rhetorical)
There was ZERO point in creating a sequel 😂
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Guys Give this movie a chance this is elseworld story Harley will be patient in Arkham cause they wonna do smth new because that's why this movies are in elseworld but don't worry we will see Joker & Harley from the comics in James Gunn Universe probably people just need to remember that's elseworld movies soo directors can do anything they want including changing some of the popular villans arc stories and that's why many people are going to see it cause they wonna now how this all plays out ( for example The Batman was a huge succes or the first Joker ) and yes they are many people that are saying "it's a musical nobody asking for it" but still a bunch of people will go to see it to find out how this all plays out what will be movie about and also the musical aspect make a lot of sense i feel like people forget that Joker and Harley dancing and singing in comics also so it isn't smth totally new but people are still hating and i get why they just scared that this was unnecesary sequel that this will destroy a "Perfect" Joker ending and i'm worried about that too but i think we have to give it a chance and the fact that criticts reviews are mixed and devided only hyped me even more ( cause the first one Has also mixed reviews ) and if the movie was produced by new director etc then yes i would be worried but it's made by the same people i trust Todd Phillips and also Phoenix never do a sequel never so the fact he play the same character twice for the same time gives me hope 🔥
...this is why I hated Furiosa. I am not a mentally challenged chimp to need the ffken villain to yell from the top of his voice "THIS WORLD'S CRUELTY IS WHAT MAKES ALL OF US CRAZY". I took ONE LOOK at the Immortan Joe in the opening of Fury Road, and i instantly knew that's what this was about.
Dementius spelling out every single theme from Fury Road is the greatest insult to everyone older than 7 who saw these movies.
It will flop
I agree marketing joker2 as a musical was HUGE mistake.... unless joker 2 lives up to the rocky horror picture show...I really hope it's not boring as the reviewers say....
So Harley in this is basically Punchline ?
I think we are all tired of not getting what we want from our favourite characters, whoever they may be, DC, marvel or anything else.
Wuh-oh. Be back! "Who needs a masters degree, when you got Google?" JESTERBELL! I AM SORRY! I've been wanting to watch your first "The Quack" short film, especially since I liked your "The Quackening 2" so much, and thiis is how youu reminddd meeeee...also, forgot how the rest of that Nickelback song goes....I liked them as a kid. Also, Creed. Human Clay was one of my favorite albums I purchased as a kid! I moved on from them....actually into really bad music so....what's my point? Whatever, I think Creed's Human Clay...maybe I'm misremembering but, and yeah, everybody's emotionally biased but I thought, in attempt to be impartial, I remember that being a good album and I rather listen to that than the Beatles. I despised them as a little kid and I don't want to listen to them now. My friend gave me his album to listen to, and I didn't listen...didn't listen to a lot of things back then...wait what? jk lol
You're hilarious. hhahahaha I just saw your skit! I'm so sanely stoked happily Harley Hyped for your new short film!
And, JesterBell, my memory sincerely stinks so I don't know movie you're talking about but surprises are great....however, and not that I didn't think you weren't modest and humble before (confusing wording, no? Talk like Yoda I do or do not there is no try!) but this is a very modest and humble video for your 23k subscribers and 400th video! Congratulations! I'm singing the JesterBell Rock!
JesterBell, JesterBell, JesterBell Rock
You play the funniest Quackening What's Up Doc
Dancin' and prancin', Great Bouncing Clowns it's Hip to Be Square
Nice Harley Quinn fans like you deserve good Harley Quinn movies... it only fair! =)
Hope you and your family have a wonderful week!
We are a nation of villains who put villains on pedastals. Its quite obvious that fans were celebrating Aurthurs chaotic response to his environment. No matter how much they tried to wrap it in a bs blanket of empathy fans are celebrating villainy. Calling Harley an anarchist is just further evidence of ignorance. Harley is a violent sociopath without a code of ethics. To attribute her behavior to a political ideology is utterly ridiculous, and slanderous propaganda against anarchism.
The Director wanted to make one joker movie it cleared $1 billion the studio got greedy and insist on a sequel. He makes it a boring musical that flops so he don’t get stuck with a franchise.
Good ol' bait and switch.
It would subvert expectations if they hired Lady Gaga to not sing but then I suppose we're stuck with her acting instead. while everyone else sings that would torment harley that could actually be a comedy 😂
I like the first one I shed a few tears for Arthur I don't really see it as a joker movie though I just see it as a movie about the world life. But I have zero interest in a sequel
People aren't allowed to have favorite characters that are the antagonists? Is it wrong if Darth Vader is your favorite? Is it wrong if you like Lex Luther as a character? Heath Ledger's Joker was by FAR my favorite character out of DC's universe. Mark Hamill's Joker is terrific even if he's only the voice.
The way you feel about Harley, is the exact same way I feel about Spider-Man and Mary Jane; Hollywood and the bosses at Marvel don't understand and hate them.
The current ultimate Spiderman Marvel comic books are doing very well with spiderman and Mary Jane are understand them well.
@iraford5788 yes.... but how long will it last? We need that kind of Spider-Man and Mary Jane in the movies and cartoons more so we can normalize the idea of an older Peter Parker that's married, and a Mary Jane who is a kind, compassionate and loyal person.
@@sammysstopmotionoas2004 I mean, there is the spider verse movies
@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 true but that is only one somewhat small part in a movie, I am talking like it being the center of an entire live action Spider-Man movie or a Peter B Parker and family cartoon, or even Spider-Man 98 if that happens.
I didn't get it. How are people who idealize the Joker and want Arthur to commit violence a metaphor for fans of the first film? That bit was there, and the sequel naturally follows it.
media is subjective. Nobody can speak on a movie like this until they actually see it. The first joker had a feel & vibe that wasn’t for everyone but was overlooked because of how people sympathize & viewed arther. This movie is not only a musical but it’s a joker movie which will be an entirely different character that you only got to see for end of the film. This was always going to be a uphill movie. What you normies don’t understand is that you need the Batman dynamic for joker to be joker. The character has admitted he needs batman. We will all have to wait & see what story this movie is telling. if I watch any reviews it will only be from true comic book fans who understand the character & not normies
18 minutes of nothing. Please watch the film yourself when it releases. I want to hear YOUR review.
Girl I feel you. They try to make Harley a girlboss, I need no man icon in the modern media, when thats is very much NOT the character. She is INSANE. About a man , and just in general.
@@alexforce9 what about birds of prey in suicide squad by James Gunn?
Looking forward to seeing LG's performance. Sounds like she might be the only good thing about it.
Just read the ending and yeah that is really dumb
I wouldn’t take these critics seriously after all they said the first film was that it wasn’t. The argument that the film hates its audience is weak due to the reasoning for it. Arthur was already portrayed as a false idol/symbol at the end of the first film so this just seems to be a progression of that idea. Todd Phillips has also denied the film is a response to critics of the first one.
Again, it could be true but I’d wait till you see the film to take anything the critics say seriously.
the feminists/leftists needed to step in & ruin this franchise by making it everything the first joker film was BECAUSE of it's empathy/sympathy towards men...we can't be doing that in the 20's Matriarchy
They should have invited Jordan Peterson to the premiere 😂
Im sick of Joker,Harley, or anything related to woke or superheroes. They took some decent characters and re-skinned , re-made over and over to the point they got boring , stale and deprived of a stable identity because each time a writer picks them up, they do whatever they want out of them, ti'll the character is no longer who they were or end up with a ton of copy-cat characters surrounding them .
At this point i rather read only indie comics that are loyal to the characters and their visions and don't try to force upon me their ideologies or whatever anime or manga is still good out there.
I myself have little to no faith in this movie. One of the things that made the first Joker so special was that it felt like a self contained, one-and-done. A neat little elseworlds story. However, I don't know if, given the information presented in this video, I would go so far as to say Joker 2 "hates its audience".
The sad fact is, there ARE a bunch of people who idolize the Joker, both before and after the first film. The same type of people who missed the point of Joker (2019) also missed the point of The Dark Knight back in 2008 and The Killing Joke all the way back in 1988. Call it a vocal minority if you will, but the amount of comments I've seen praising the Joker character as some sort of philosophical, genius are frustratingly high and frequent.
That said, if this movie is going out of there way to call out that sect of Joker fans that undoubtedly exist, I see no problem with it. It's all about execution, which remains to be seen. Still, there are plenty of other reasons to believe Joker 2 will most likely be a disappointment, especially when compared to the first film.
wtf is wrong with these people producing media to say they hate the customers...
To be fair, the general audience gets the message pretty clearly. But there's more than enough Heath ledger's Joker fans that are just in love with the rebel psycho clown. People making him deeper than he actually is. Same folks who idolize Rick from Rick and Morty and Walter White and so on
Pretty sure Heath Ledger’s Joker fans are more than aware that he’s the villain. Empathizing with his motives is not the same as idolizing him.
This movie looks like it´s Birds of Prey 2...
Sorry but to this day no one is going to be Heath Ledger as the joker in my eyes.
I can’t wait for them to make a movie about doing crime and being a gangster, out of the character that’s a gangster who dose crime.
The expectations for this was already low. Yeah, the musical aspect of it was a turn off.
But, now they are trying to push negative attitutes towards the Joker, that's just annoying.
JOKER 1 gots 60% on rottent tomatoes. Honestly Im not worried 😂
WHY DONT U WATCH THE movie first😅
The first Joker was a mistake. Total rip off of better films. Surprised they weren't sued for plagiarism. Mind blowing people actually liked it.
Is it really a surprise that it's boring?? The first wasn't a gripping thrill ride either...😴😪💤
If someone wants no story details whatsoever, and wants to go in as blind as possible, maybe add a mild spoiler warning to this video, which I realized a minute in, that I'm going to need to skip.
I'll just say I'm not reading the reviews because I don't want anything influencing my opinion going in, and that mainstream critics already proved with the first movie that they can't be trusted when it comes to this franchise. (Yes, it's weird that Joker is a 'franchise' now)
Geezo
Thx negative Nancy
So much for going to go check out a movie
I wish the follow up to this movie had been an actual Batman movie with this very well-developed version of the joker as the nemesis. It could have shown flashes of his vulnerable former self which would actually feel real. It could have been better than the dark night.
Not sure what you saw in that trailer, other than exactly what you're describing.
Looked incredibly boring and self referential.
Tbh i dont even like the first one🫢
❤
I was so excited for the first movie…..then I saw it and was bored with it
Why would you make a video all about the reviews of a film?
Self indulgent , pretentious movie cosplaying as a comic book movie