I grew up in the Church of Christ. They were knuckleheads about this issue. They believed that there was no salvation without being baptized. Also, in their pharasaic manner, the only acceptable age was "the age of accountability". Furthermore, they prescribed that it had to be by total immersion. I had a great deal of pressure placed on me from the time I was about 12 years old to be baptized. Reluctantly, I was baptized so my parents wouldn't make my life any more miserable than they or their church already were doing. Around the age of 16 I left Christianity. I am glad I found Lutheranism...it is a denomination that is grounded in the gospel, as well as, historical Christianity.
Will Mike I am very familiar with the Church of Christ. Besides the points you mention, they indeed (most of them?) are arrogant Pharisees because they imply that only THEIR baptism suffices. I found them to be very judgmental and isolationist. Not surprisingly, they lack joy.
Will you are wrong in many things 1) the Church of Christ is right on age of accountability (it is in Scriptures), 2) total immersion is the only way everyone in the New Testament was baptized. The pure ignorance from your side tells me you never knew Scriptures.
@@TesterBoy read my response to Will Reality check Church of Christ is Right on two issues age of accountability, and total immersion. Everyone in the Bible who got baptize in NT were grown (at not baby), and immersed in water. You are wrong and you are the Pharisees.
You seem to convince yourself that baptism is not necessary for salvation, but there are many who are more learned that disagree with you: Barnabas (circa 75 AD) "Blessed are they who place their trust in the cross and descend down into the water... We indeed descend into the water full of sins and defilement, however we come up, bearing fruit in our heart, having the fear of God and trust in Jesus in our spirit." Hermas (circa 110 AD) "Before a man bears the name of the Son of God, he is dead. But when he receives the seal, he lays aside his deadness and obtains life. The seal then is the water. They descend into the water dead, and they rise alive." Justin Martyr circa - (circa -160 AD) "But there is no other way than this to become acquainted with Christ; We must be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of our sins, and for the remainder of our lives we must live sinless lives." Iranaeus (circa 180 AD) "But there are some Gnostics who assert that it is unnecessary to bring people to the water. Rather they mix oil and water together, and they place this mixture on the heads of those that are to be initiated. .. This they maintain to be the redemption... But there are other heretics that reject all of these practices and maintain that the mystery of the unspeakable should not be performed by visible and corruptible creatures. They claim that the knowledge of the power of God is itself perfect redemption." Tertullian (circa 198 AD) "(Unless a man is born of water and of Spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of Heaven.) {Quoted from John 3:3} These words have tied faith to the necessity of water baptism, and accordingly, all those that became believers were thus baptized. It was also this way with Paul, that when he believed, he was baptized." Cyprian (circa 250 AD) "One is not re-born by the imposition of hands when they receive the Holy Spirit; Rather it is through water baptism. Therefore, having thoroughly cleansed, he may receive the Holy Spirit." Archelaus (circa 320 AD) " If he (Jesus) was not been baptized in water, neither are any of us baptized. Yet, if there is no baptism, neither will there be the remission of sins. Rather, every man will die in their sins." Apostolic Constitutions (circa 390 AD) "He who, out of contempt will not be baptized in water, he will be condemned as an unbeliever. He will be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says, unless a man is born of water and spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Quoted from John 3:3) and again he said, He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Quoted from Mark 16:16)" There are many more quotes from many other men throughout history that taught that baptism is the method of conversion, where we receive the remission of our sins. The doctrine that you teach is a creation that was invented by the Gnostics and is not a teaching of the Bible nor Apostles nor of Christ. If you want true interpretation of scripture, it is best to go to the writings of the men that were taught directly by the Apostles, lived and worked with them. They did not learn from the scriptures but were taught hands on, directly from those who knew the truth. Trust their words. I pray you have a heart for this truth and can overcome your indoctrination.
Thank you! I've tried to discuss Baptism with non- Lutherans and man do people get upset quick! Baptism is such a beautiful example of Gods grace! Thanks again for your videos! Please keep them coming! 🇺🇸🙏❤
I was raised firmly in the Missouri Synod Lutheran church, baptized as a baby, confirmed as a teen. I believe in Salvation by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior -God made flesh. I no longer regularly attend Lutheran churches, but Bible believing churches with sound doctrine. I’ve recently had encounters with some lovely young ladies you stated to be Christian - I later came to find out that they were a part of the Church of Christ. Their main fallacy believing that you MUST be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit and be saved. (Sounds similar to some of the commenters. ) The big difference being, that they were ADAMANT that you must repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Spirit (in that order) to be saved. Anything different, and you will go to Hell. They believed I, a Christian baptized as a baby, was going to Hell, despite my faith in Christ Jesus. In fact, they point out many of the same verses that you and commenters have mentioned - Acts 2:38, Romans 6:1-4, Mark 16:15, etc. I comment here to remind you to be weary. It’s easy to take a verse out of context without understanding the greater meaning. Yes, though a believer in Christ should get baptized (it is an absolute blessing from God!) it is NOT the absolute point of Salvation. Acceptance of Christ Jesus as Lord, what He did on the cross to take away our sins, His defeat of sin, death, and the adversary - belief in Jesus of the Bible and acceptance into your heart - is the point of Salvation. Too much weight on baptism (full submerged or sprinkled), repentance, etc. becomes WORK BASED SALVATION. Yes, we should do all these things as are spoken in God’s Holy Word, but it is Christ ALONE and what He did for us on the cross that Saves us. Anything we do is but dirty rags to the Lord. Jesus Christ did everything, is everything. And praise God that He blessed us with Salvation, His grace and mercy. We do not deserve it. I just ask that you be weary brothers and sisters. It’s far too easy to become legalistic and works based on one side, or fade to the happy-go-lucky false teachings of the Charismatic Movement and property gospel on the other. Satan is like a Lion looking about for whom he may devour. Trust in Jesus, trust in the Bible! Amen!
it's sad that people have such a low view...borderline hatred...of this beautiful work of God. I pray our hearts be crucified so that we may be willing to listen to correction.
Mk16 is quoted several times by church fathers that date before the oldest Markan mss we have. A school of thought known as lower textual criticism has a canon which says if the texts are older they are more reliable. However the texts based upon this are highly redacted. It’s ironic when Fathers are quoting portions of Mk 16 as divine that predate these Alexandrian texts, yet textual critics do not consider this in the question of lower textual criticism.
Michial Brown Interesting. Can you give me an example of what early church father quotes it? Do you know of any similar evidence for the adulterous woman text?
@@IAmisMaster The classic argumentation of the inclusion of the longer reading of Mark 16 is from John W. Burgon's work "The Last Twelve Verses of the Gospel according to St. Mark: Vindicated against Recent Critical Objectors and Established." One early church father that he cites is Eusebius, "Letter to Marinus (Ad Marinum)." Also, Justin Martyr, who in first Apology quotes the last verse of Mark 16:20.
they keep "chasing their tale"...."God's gifts of grace (incluuding faith [Eph. 2:8, 9]) come through baptism", but "you can be saved without baptism"- so, sinners can be "saved" without God's "gifts of grace/salvation" which are only available in "baptism"? ...round and round.....
Ok so this don't make sense to me. If you are saved by baptism but then must respond in faith then you are not saved by baptism. If an infant of believing parents dies before it is baptized does it go to hell? If an infant dies just after infant baptism does it go to heaven? The child is not old enough to have had faith. If the infant being baptized dies in his or her 20s and had not had faith then you would say they are not saved. Would that not mean that the baptized infant is not saved when it dies shortly after baptism?
What does the Bible say? Why would Jesus Christ command the baptism if it was not necessary? Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV) 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: John 3:5 King James Version (KJV) 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
@@ReformedRookie the difference is that the Bible says baptism saves in many places, not just in one (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:1-6, Titus 3:3-7, 1 Peter 3:20-22).
@@Iffmeister and the questions becomes: is that Spirit baptism that every believer must have (which proves you are saved), or is it water baptism which not all Christians have had (thief on the cross)
@@ReformedRookie everyone points to the thief, but there's certain problems with this: 1. A person who has faith dies before being baptized has historically been seen as a person who was "baptized with the baptism Jesus was baptized with". They'd be in paradise anyway. Also baptism is how Jesus gives us grace, and Jesus was right next to him. 2. The Bible says baptism saves in numerous places. 3. The church fathers unanimously believed that baptism regenerates. Which is huge cause they disagreed on a lot.
John the Baptist said, it is necessary before you accept and follow the messiah Jesus! John refused to baptize Jesus for he knew Jesus is sinless and did not need to be bsptized but he knew the people around him were sinful and need baptism. When they were already baptized and then follow Jesus, it meant they were saved.
Do the Papists hold the position that baptism in their church is absolutely necessary and essential for salvation and without which cannot possibly be saved?
Water Baptism for salvation? There are plenty of people who have been water baptized but never got saved. Putting on a wedding ring doesn’t mean you are married.
Matthew 3:15 Jesus insisted that even John's baptism was fitting for them to fulfill all righteousness. A servant is not greater than his Lord. Matthew 3:16 In baptism, the Father claims the Son. The Spirit rests on the Son. Matthew 21:25 Mere water baptism is a gift from Heaven. Matthew 28:19 Make disciples by baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and by teaching. Mark 1:4 Mere water baptism = repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Mark 16:16 *Baptized believers are saved, unbelievers condemned.* Luke 7:29 Even water baptism is a public declaration that God is righteous. Luke 7:30 *Rejecting even mere water baptism = rejecting God's purpose for you.* John 1:31, 33 John knew beforehand that God would reveal the Christ through baptism. Acts 2:38 *Repentance and baptism = forgiveness and the Spirit.* Acts 2:39-41 3000 bachelors, virgins, wives, husbands, and *children of all ages received forgiveness and the Spirit in baptism.* The smallest can't have decided to repent in a mature way, but they were not excluded. Acts 8 Many early church Bible readers saw a distinction between the Spirit's invisible gift of repentance/forgiveness and the Spirit's visible gift of leadership/ordination. Philip the Evangelist could baptize but not bestow spiritual authority. Only the apostles could do that. Acts 22:16 *Baptism washes away sins.* Romans 6:3, 4 *Baptism is death to sin, death with Christ, and newness of life in Christ.* 1 Corinthians 1 Baptism must not turn into hero worship, cliques, and factionalism. 1 Corinthians 12:22, 13 On the contrary, baptism is unity in the one Holy Spirit in Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:29 Even superstitious baptism declares the resurrection of the dead. Galatians 3:27, 28 Baptism clothes every member of the body of Christ in equality. Ephesians 3:5 There is one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all. Colossians 2:11 Baptism is a works-free death, a cutting off of the flesh. Colossians 2:12 Christ was buried. You were buried with Christ *in baptism.* God raised Christ from the dead. You believe God raised Christ from the dead. Therefore, God raised you with Christ *in baptism.* This is all *God’s powerful work.* Hebrews 6:1-2 *Baptism is a basic foundational teaching. You can't say you believe in Jesus while rejecting his basic teachings.* 1 Peter 3:20 Noah was saved by water, not from water. The flood waters washed away much evil. 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism now *saves you!* Baptism is assurance/demand of a good conscience before God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This verse summarizes all that has been said above.
Its a little like, could individuals in this age who didn't have the written word of God for a period of history have been illuminated to the gospel? Yes, of course. But as a matter of objective and practical reality, beyond reasonable doubt, should we have the unaltered Word being passed from generation to generation? Yes, amen. I personally feel that if any outward deed be added to the inward testimony of salvation by faith, then we should negate it. But people choose to be baptized to affirm the symbolic nature of baptism. Baptism is being submerged in water and then being brought out of the water. Putting off the old nature and putting on the new. As soon as that reality is realised in my own mind, then I might choose to affirm outward baptism, to affirm that tradition of the church.
- Non-Lutherans bang their heads on the doctrine of justification and go crazy when they hear about the perishability of original sin. God's grace has been taken away from them because these two basic doctrines already condemn them.
The problem is Baptists always wanna harp on the exception that God makes for the unbaptized and create a norm out of it, almost like they’re grasping at straws. “Well I said a prayer of salvation! I accepted Jesus! I got saved! So it doesn’t matter if I’m baptized or not.” And then they’ll have a field day with Acts 2 and talk about being baptized by the Holy Spirit to prove that water baptism is just a symbol that shows they got saved. Making adequate sense of 1 Peter 3:21 with my Baptist friends is very difficult when you have 4-5 different assumptions about regeneration and baptism.
If your doctrine is correct concerning the method of salvation - that baptism is not the method of conversion, and that all you need to do is believe to be saved - then those that believe that baptism is necessary for salvation meet the requirements of your doctrine and they are saved! These people are not in jeopardy. However, if they are correct - and baptism is the method of conversion and necessary for salvation - then all those that have taught and believed otherwise will be eternally lost. Therefore, those that teach and believe that baptism is necessary for salvation are safe either way, whether their doctrine is true or not. Yet those that believe baptism is not necessary for salvation are completely dependent upon their interpretation of scripture and doctrine to be true, otherwise they will be damned. I dont know about you, but I would rather err on the side of caution! Matthew 7:21-23 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:" Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." SPEAKING TO THE MAN IN THE VIDEO: Concerning your understanding of 1 Corinthians 1, you need to have understanding of the complete context to see that Paul actually teaches that baptism is a part of conversion and salvation. 1 Corinthians 1:12-17 12. Some of you say, I am of Paul, another says I am of Apollos, and another says, I am of Cephas (Simon Peter); But I tell you, I am of Christ! (I am a Baptist, I am a Methodist, I am a Lutheran…) 13. I ask, has Christ been divided? It was not Cephas that was crucified for you; It was not in the name of Paul that you were baptized! 14. I give thanks unto God that I did not baptize any of you, except for Crispus and Gaius, 15. so that none might say that they were baptized in my name! 16. I also baptized the house of Stephanus, but I do not remember baptizing any other. 17. Christ did not send me to do baptisms, but to preach the gospel; Continued... 1 Corinthians 3:4-8 4. For when one says, I am of Apollos, and another says, I am of Paul, is this not evidence of a worldly mindset? (1 Corinthians 1:12-17) 5. Who is Paul? Who is Apollos? Are they not simply servants through whom you have come to trust in God? Did not both give unto you as the Lord allowed? 6. I planted (brought the message), Apollos watered (baptized), but it is God who brought the growth! 7. So the one who planted and the one who watered, they are not what matters, but it is the Lord our God who brought the increase. 8. One planted and one did the watering, and each of us shall receive a reward according to each one’s work. Can you see that your presumption concerning water baptism is in error? I pray that you can. Context matters.
The best way to approach this to start where sin began , Adam and Eve were the 1st to sin . How did God handle it , the 1st sacrifice for sin was to take 2 innocent lambs ,skin them and cover Adam and Eve with the bloody things ; Genesis 3:21, life is in the blood Genesis 4:10 ; Abel's blood cried to God from the ground . Throughout the old testament animal sacrifice was the way this was handled , until 1 day John was baptizing in the River Jordan ,John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him , and saith , Behold the Lamb of God , which taketh away the sin of the world . In 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light , we have the fellowship one with another , and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin . How does it clean us , 1 John 5:8 there are 3 that bear witness in earth , the Spirit, and the water , and the blood . How do we get these 3 together is in the name of Jesus Acts 2:38 , when you mention the name of Jesus , the Spirit comes in , and the blood comes in and mixes with the water and there's a washing away your sins . Now I cannot show you the Spirit , it's invisible , and I can't show you the blood from Cavalry but I can show you the water . Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by law purged with blood ; and without shedding of blood is no remission . Now some say I was baptized as infant , but there is no blood , no remission , you can go down to the river a get dipped 3 times , no blood no remission , you might say I was baptized Father , Son , Holy Spirit , no blood no remission . There is no other name in which you can be saved Acts 4:12 , 13 Ephesians 4:5 one Lord , one faith , one baptism , it's for everyone .
Essentially, by being re-baptized, one is implying that what the Holy Spirit did in one's first baptism was not sufficient. That insults the work of the Holy Spirit. Most people who do get re-baptised though are not trying to insult the Holy Spirit, they do it out of ignorance so God won't hold it against them.
That is what i struggled with in the Lutheran church. I would hear "We become a child of God in water baptism". But then I hear, "It is by Grace through faith that we are saved". "Ten Commandments, the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer out of his head, but they are revealed and given by God himself, so also I can boast that baptism is no human trifle, but that it is instituted by God himself, and that it is most solemnly and rigidly commanded that we must be baptized or we cannot be saved." THE LARGE CATECHISM OF MARTIN LUTHER page 92.
Non-Jews don't know the meaning of Baptism and Paul the Jewish Apostle only gives a glimpse of what's it all about. Check out Acts of the Apostles and you will find out why they were all eager to get baptized. Christians find your Jewish roots.
The obvious question then is...Is everyone that has been baptized saved? I know many people baptized as infants who aren’t close to being a Christian today.
Baptism saves for by it, God's gives the gift of salvation, especially to infants who are also sinners born spiritually dead and under God's wrath and condemnation for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and the wages of sin is death. However, baptized Christians can reject the faith and so exclude themselves from salvation, which they have by means of their baptism. Yet, they can return to their baptism in repentance for their sins and trust in Jesus and His saving work by the calling and power of the Holy Spirit working three means or tools; this salvation was given to them in their baptism (among the Gospel Word and the Lord's Supper). Unlike Calvinisit and Reformed Christians, Lutherans believe and confess that Christians can reject or fall away from their salvation, which God offers and gives through faith alone in what Christ has done for all people on the cross, i.e. took all our sins and paid for it, and also reconciles us with God.
shogunshogun So another obvious question: Is someone who repents of their sin and believes the Gospel, but has not been baptized (I.e. the thief on the cross) condemned to hell?
@@sdb6757 Hello Steve. What is it that you are struggling with in relation to baptism as a means of grace, along with God's Word and the Lord's Supper? I'm asking this so we can actually get to foundation of your struggle(s). Also, the account of thief of on the cross is irrelevant for Jesus' didn't command and instituted baptism until His resurrection. My questions: 1) What has God revealed in His word about the ways/tools/means He uses to give us salvation? 2) How do we receive salvation that Christ has accomplished for us on the cross?
shogunshogun Paul tells us how everyone is saved, old and New Testament in Romans 4.. “What does the scripture say..(Gen. 15:6) Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness......22] Therefore, it was credited to him for righteousness. [23] Now it was credited to him was not written for Abraham alone, [24] but also for us. It will be credited to us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. [25] He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.” John agrees: John 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” Paul explains the beautiful truth that we’ve died with Christ, buried with Him and raised again that baptism by immersion in water symbolizes in Romans 6:3-4 Or are you unaware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we were buried with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life.” No struggle here. I should warn you not to trust in your baptism to save you, but trust in Christ’s work for you on the cross. I’ll end with one of my favorite quotes from Jesus, John 7:37-38 CSB [37] On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus stood up and cried out, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. [38] The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have streams of living water flow from deep within him." This is the water from John 3:5 that I know Lutherans teach is about baptism but I strongly disagree. It’s the water of Ezekiel 36:25, and John 4:14.
The basic problem is one of authority. If Christians have a sincere disagreement, who decides? Whose interpretation of Scripture? Luther, Calvin, Smith?
The Holy Spirit illumines God's word so it's not man but God that has authority. From the clear passages of Scripture comes the Rule of Faith, which is a summary of heavenly doctrine gathered from the clearest passages of Scripture. The first part is faith, the chief teachings are laid out in the Apostles' Creed. The second part is love, the sum of teaching is laid out in the Decalogue. All knowing is the interaction between the thing to be known and the intellect doing the knowing. The illumination of the Holy Spirit is required for this for our understanding have been wretchedly corrupted by sin. Thus, prayer is necessary for us to receive the divine illumination of the Holy Spirit (Lk 11:13; John 16:13). Therefore, the highest authority of interpreting Scripture is the Holy Spirit.
Either way, you’ll still need to put on your thinking cap as their are various claims to authority. In the end, it’s still your reason that has to decide who to join.
I grew up in the Church of Christ. They were knuckleheads about this issue. They believed that there was no salvation without being baptized. Also, in their pharasaic manner, the only acceptable age was "the age of accountability". Furthermore, they prescribed that it had to be by total immersion. I had a great deal of pressure placed on me from the time I was about 12 years old to be baptized. Reluctantly, I was baptized so my parents wouldn't make my life any more miserable than they or their church already were doing. Around the age of 16 I left Christianity. I am glad I found Lutheranism...it is a denomination that is grounded in the gospel, as well as, historical Christianity.
Will Mike I am very familiar with the Church of Christ. Besides the points you mention, they indeed (most of them?) are arrogant Pharisees because they imply that only THEIR baptism suffices. I found them to be very judgmental and isolationist. Not surprisingly, they lack joy.
Will you are wrong in many things 1) the Church of Christ is right on age of accountability (it is in Scriptures), 2) total immersion is the only way everyone in the New Testament was baptized.
The pure ignorance from your side tells me you never knew Scriptures.
@@TesterBoy read my response to Will
Reality check Church of Christ is Right on two issues age of accountability, and total immersion. Everyone in the Bible who got baptize in NT were grown (at not baby), and immersed in water. You are wrong and you are the Pharisees.
@@mynameis......23 source?
You seem to convince yourself that baptism is not necessary for salvation, but there are many who are more learned that disagree with you:
Barnabas (circa 75 AD)
"Blessed are they who place their trust in the cross and descend down into the water... We indeed descend into the water full of sins and defilement, however we come up, bearing fruit in our heart, having the fear of God and trust in Jesus in our spirit."
Hermas (circa 110 AD)
"Before a man bears the name of the Son of God, he is dead. But when he receives the seal, he lays aside his deadness and obtains life. The seal then is the water. They descend into the water dead, and they rise alive."
Justin Martyr circa - (circa -160 AD)
"But there is no other way than this to become acquainted with Christ; We must be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of our sins, and for the remainder of our lives we must live sinless lives."
Iranaeus (circa 180 AD)
"But there are some Gnostics who assert that it is unnecessary to bring people to the water. Rather they mix oil and water together, and they place this mixture on the heads of those that are to be initiated. .. This they maintain to be the redemption... But there are other heretics that reject all of these practices and maintain that the mystery of the unspeakable should not be performed by visible and corruptible creatures. They claim that the knowledge of the power of God is itself perfect redemption."
Tertullian (circa 198 AD)
"(Unless a man is born of water and of Spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of Heaven.) {Quoted from John 3:3} These words have tied faith to the necessity of water baptism, and accordingly, all those that became believers were thus baptized. It was also this way with Paul, that when he believed, he was baptized."
Cyprian (circa 250 AD)
"One is not re-born by the imposition of hands when they receive the Holy Spirit; Rather it is through water baptism. Therefore, having thoroughly cleansed, he may receive the Holy Spirit."
Archelaus (circa 320 AD)
" If he (Jesus) was not been baptized in water, neither are any of us baptized. Yet, if there is no baptism, neither will there be the remission of sins. Rather, every man will die in their sins."
Apostolic Constitutions (circa 390 AD)
"He who, out of contempt will not be baptized in water, he will be condemned as an unbeliever. He will be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says, unless a man is born of water and spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Quoted from John 3:3) and again he said, He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Quoted from Mark 16:16)"
There are many more quotes from many other men throughout history that taught that baptism is the method of conversion, where we receive the remission of our sins. The doctrine that you teach is a creation that was invented by the Gnostics and is not a teaching of the Bible nor Apostles nor of Christ. If you want true interpretation of scripture, it is best to go to the writings of the men that were taught directly by the Apostles, lived and worked with them. They did not learn from the scriptures but were taught hands on, directly from those who knew the truth. Trust their words. I pray you have a heart for this truth and can overcome your indoctrination.
Thank you! I've tried to discuss Baptism with non- Lutherans and man do people get upset quick! Baptism is such a beautiful example of Gods grace! Thanks again for your videos! Please keep them coming! 🇺🇸🙏❤
I was raised firmly in the Missouri Synod Lutheran church, baptized as a baby, confirmed as a teen. I believe in Salvation by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior -God made flesh.
I no longer regularly attend Lutheran churches, but Bible believing churches with sound doctrine. I’ve recently had encounters with some lovely young ladies you stated to be Christian - I later came to find out that they were a part of the Church of Christ. Their main fallacy believing that you MUST be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit and be saved. (Sounds similar to some of the commenters. )
The big difference being, that they were ADAMANT that you must repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Spirit (in that order) to be saved. Anything different, and you will go to Hell. They believed I, a Christian baptized as a baby, was going to Hell, despite my faith in Christ Jesus.
In fact, they point out many of the same verses that you and commenters have mentioned - Acts 2:38, Romans 6:1-4, Mark 16:15, etc.
I comment here to remind you to be weary. It’s easy to take a verse out of context without understanding the greater meaning. Yes, though a believer in Christ should get baptized (it is an absolute blessing from God!) it is NOT the absolute point of Salvation. Acceptance of Christ Jesus as Lord, what He did on the cross to take away our sins, His defeat of sin, death, and the adversary - belief in Jesus of the Bible and acceptance into your heart - is the point of Salvation.
Too much weight on baptism (full submerged or sprinkled), repentance, etc. becomes WORK BASED SALVATION. Yes, we should do all these things as are spoken in God’s Holy Word, but it is Christ ALONE and what He did for us on the cross that Saves us.
Anything we do is but dirty rags to the Lord. Jesus Christ did everything, is everything. And praise God that He blessed us with Salvation, His grace and mercy. We do not deserve it.
I just ask that you be weary brothers and sisters. It’s far too easy to become legalistic and works based on one side, or fade to the happy-go-lucky false teachings of the Charismatic Movement and property gospel on the other.
Satan is like a Lion looking about for whom he may devour.
Trust in Jesus, trust in the Bible! Amen!
Being raised as a Baptist I hold this same view
Thank you for Law & Gospel!
it's sad that people have such a low view...borderline hatred...of this beautiful work of God. I pray our hearts be crucified so that we may be willing to listen to correction.
Thank you. Short and to the point. God's peace be with you.
TIL I am Lutheran in my view of baptism.
Mk16 is quoted several times by church fathers that date before the oldest Markan mss we have. A school of thought known as lower textual criticism has a canon which says if the texts are older they are more reliable. However the texts based upon this are highly redacted. It’s ironic when Fathers are quoting portions of Mk 16 as divine that predate these Alexandrian texts, yet textual critics do not consider this in the question of lower textual criticism.
Michial Brown
Interesting. Can you give me an example of what early church father quotes it? Do you know of any similar evidence for the adulterous woman text?
@@IAmisMaster The classic argumentation of the inclusion of the longer reading of Mark 16 is from John W. Burgon's work "The Last Twelve Verses of the Gospel according to St. Mark: Vindicated against Recent Critical Objectors and Established."
One early church father that he cites is Eusebius, "Letter to Marinus (Ad Marinum)." Also, Justin Martyr, who in first Apology quotes the last verse of Mark 16:20.
Anglican and agree with pretty much all of this.
they keep "chasing their tale"...."God's gifts of grace (incluuding faith [Eph. 2:8, 9]) come through baptism", but "you can be saved without baptism"- so, sinners can be "saved" without God's "gifts of grace/salvation" which are only available in "baptism"? ...round and round.....
Ok so this don't make sense to me. If you are saved by baptism but then must respond in faith then you are not saved by baptism. If an infant of believing parents dies before it is baptized does it go to hell? If an infant dies just after infant baptism does it go to heaven? The child is not old enough to have had faith. If the infant being baptized dies in his or her 20s and had not had faith then you would say they are not saved. Would that not mean that the baptized infant is not saved when it dies shortly after baptism?
What does the Bible say?
Why would Jesus Christ command the baptism if it was not necessary?
Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
John 3:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus also commanded us to be perfect as His Father in heaven is perfect. Is that necessary too?
@@ReformedRookie
Right on.
@@ReformedRookie the difference is that the Bible says baptism saves in many places, not just in one (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:1-6, Titus 3:3-7, 1 Peter 3:20-22).
@@Iffmeister and the questions becomes: is that Spirit baptism that every believer must have (which proves you are saved), or is it water baptism which not all Christians have had (thief on the cross)
@@ReformedRookie everyone points to the thief, but there's certain problems with this:
1. A person who has faith dies before being baptized has historically been seen as a person who was "baptized with the baptism Jesus was baptized with". They'd be in paradise anyway. Also baptism is how Jesus gives us grace, and Jesus was right next to him.
2. The Bible says baptism saves in numerous places.
3. The church fathers unanimously believed that baptism regenerates. Which is huge cause they disagreed on a lot.
John the Baptist said, it is necessary before you accept and follow the messiah Jesus! John refused to baptize Jesus for he knew Jesus is sinless and did not need to be bsptized but he knew the people around him were sinful and need baptism. When they were already baptized and then follow Jesus, it meant they were saved.
Can someone tell me where Luther wrote that there it is no damnation without having received baptism?
Do the Papists hold the position that baptism in their church is absolutely necessary and essential for salvation and without which cannot possibly be saved?
no they do not, they accept baptism outside of the catholic church as long as it is done proper
@@Wiemcc thank you.
Water Baptism for salvation? There are plenty of people who have been water baptized but never got saved.
Putting on a wedding ring doesn’t mean you are married.
Matthew 3:15 Jesus insisted that even John's baptism was fitting for them to fulfill all righteousness. A servant is not greater than his Lord.
Matthew 3:16 In baptism, the Father claims the Son. The Spirit rests on the Son.
Matthew 21:25 Mere water baptism is a gift from Heaven.
Matthew 28:19 Make disciples by baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and by teaching.
Mark 1:4 Mere water baptism = repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Mark 16:16 *Baptized believers are saved, unbelievers condemned.*
Luke 7:29 Even water baptism is a public declaration that God is righteous.
Luke 7:30 *Rejecting even mere water baptism = rejecting God's purpose for you.*
John 1:31, 33 John knew beforehand that God would reveal the Christ through baptism.
Acts 2:38 *Repentance and baptism = forgiveness and the Spirit.*
Acts 2:39-41 3000 bachelors, virgins, wives, husbands, and *children of all ages received forgiveness and the Spirit in baptism.* The smallest can't have decided to repent in a mature way, but they were not excluded.
Acts 8 Many early church Bible readers saw a distinction between the Spirit's invisible gift of repentance/forgiveness and the Spirit's visible gift of leadership/ordination. Philip the Evangelist could baptize but not bestow spiritual authority. Only the apostles could do that.
Acts 22:16 *Baptism washes away sins.*
Romans 6:3, 4 *Baptism is death to sin, death with Christ, and newness of life in Christ.*
1 Corinthians 1 Baptism must not turn into hero worship, cliques, and factionalism.
1 Corinthians 12:22, 13 On the contrary, baptism is unity in the one Holy Spirit in Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:29 Even superstitious baptism declares the resurrection of the dead.
Galatians 3:27, 28 Baptism clothes every member of the body of Christ in equality.
Ephesians 3:5 There is one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all.
Colossians 2:11 Baptism is a works-free death, a cutting off of the flesh.
Colossians 2:12 Christ was buried. You were buried with Christ *in baptism.* God raised Christ from the dead. You believe God raised Christ from the dead. Therefore, God raised you with Christ *in baptism.* This is all *God’s powerful work.*
Hebrews 6:1-2 *Baptism is a basic foundational teaching. You can't say you believe in Jesus while rejecting his basic teachings.*
1 Peter 3:20 Noah was saved by water, not from water. The flood waters washed away much evil.
1 Peter 3:21 Baptism now *saves you!* Baptism is assurance/demand of a good conscience before God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This verse summarizes all that has been said above.
@@Mygoalwogel that’s a long list. I will go through it and get back to you
Very helpful!
Its a little like, could individuals in this age who didn't have the written word of God for a period of history have been illuminated to the gospel? Yes, of course. But as a matter of objective and practical reality, beyond reasonable doubt, should we have the unaltered Word being passed from generation to generation? Yes, amen.
I personally feel that if any outward deed be added to the inward testimony of salvation by faith, then we should negate it. But people choose to be baptized to affirm the symbolic nature of baptism. Baptism is being submerged in water and then being brought out of the water. Putting off the old nature and putting on the new. As soon as that reality is realised in my own mind, then I might choose to affirm outward baptism, to affirm that tradition of the church.
- Non-Lutherans bang their heads on the doctrine of justification and go crazy when they hear about the perishability of original sin. God's grace has been taken away from them because these two basic doctrines already condemn them.
The problem is Baptists always wanna harp on the exception that God makes for the unbaptized and create a norm out of it, almost like they’re grasping at straws. “Well I said a prayer of salvation! I accepted Jesus! I got saved! So it doesn’t matter if I’m baptized or not.” And then they’ll have a field day with Acts 2 and talk about being baptized by the Holy Spirit to prove that water baptism is just a symbol that shows they got saved. Making adequate sense of 1 Peter 3:21 with my Baptist friends is very difficult when you have 4-5 different assumptions about regeneration and baptism.
If your doctrine is correct concerning the method of salvation - that baptism is not the method of conversion, and that all you need to do is believe to be saved - then those that believe that baptism is necessary for salvation meet the requirements of your doctrine and they are saved! These people are not in jeopardy.
However, if they are correct - and baptism is the method of conversion and necessary for salvation - then all those that have taught and believed otherwise will be eternally lost.
Therefore, those that teach and believe that baptism is necessary for salvation are safe either way, whether their doctrine is true or not.
Yet those that believe baptism is not necessary for salvation are completely dependent upon their interpretation of scripture and doctrine to be true, otherwise they will be damned.
I dont know about you, but I would rather err on the side of caution!
Matthew 7:21-23
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:"
Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
SPEAKING TO THE MAN IN THE VIDEO:
Concerning your understanding of 1 Corinthians 1, you need to have understanding of the complete context to see that Paul actually teaches that baptism is a part of conversion and salvation.
1 Corinthians 1:12-17
12. Some of you say, I am of Paul, another says I am of Apollos, and another says, I am of Cephas (Simon Peter); But I tell you, I am of Christ! (I am a Baptist, I am a Methodist, I am a Lutheran…)
13. I ask, has Christ been divided? It was not Cephas that was crucified for you; It was not in the name of Paul that you were baptized!
14. I give thanks unto God that I did not baptize any of you, except for Crispus and Gaius,
15. so that none might say that they were baptized in my name!
16. I also baptized the house of Stephanus, but I do not remember baptizing any other.
17. Christ did not send me to do baptisms, but to preach the gospel;
Continued...
1 Corinthians 3:4-8
4. For when one says, I am of Apollos, and another says, I am of Paul, is this not evidence of a worldly mindset? (1 Corinthians 1:12-17)
5. Who is Paul? Who is Apollos? Are they not simply servants through whom you have come to trust in God? Did not both give unto you as the Lord allowed?
6. I planted (brought the message), Apollos watered (baptized), but it is God who brought the growth!
7. So the one who planted and the one who watered, they are not what matters, but it is the Lord our God who brought the increase.
8. One planted and one did the watering, and each of us shall receive a reward according to each one’s work.
Can you see that your presumption concerning water baptism is in error? I pray that you can. Context matters.
why do you believe the longer ending to mark is genuine?
The best way to approach this to start where sin began , Adam and Eve were the 1st to sin .
How did God handle it , the 1st sacrifice for sin was to take 2 innocent lambs ,skin them
and cover Adam and Eve with the bloody things ; Genesis 3:21, life is in the blood Genesis
4:10 ; Abel's blood cried to God from the ground . Throughout the old testament animal
sacrifice was the way this was handled , until 1 day John was baptizing in the River
Jordan ,John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him , and saith , Behold
the Lamb of God , which taketh away the sin of the world . In 1 John 1:7 But if we walk
in the light , we have the fellowship one with another , and the blood of Jesus Christ his
Son cleanseth us from all sin . How does it clean us , 1 John 5:8 there are 3 that bear
witness in earth , the Spirit, and the water , and the blood . How do we get these 3 together
is in the name of Jesus Acts 2:38 , when you mention the name of Jesus , the Spirit comes
in , and the blood comes in and mixes with the water and there's a washing away your sins .
Now I cannot show you the Spirit , it's invisible , and I can't show you the blood from Cavalry
but I can show you the water . Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by law purged with
blood ; and without shedding of blood is no remission . Now some say I was baptized as
infant , but there is no blood , no remission , you can go down to the river a get dipped 3
times , no blood no remission , you might say I was baptized Father , Son , Holy Spirit ,
no blood no remission . There is no other name in which you can be saved Acts 4:12 , 13
Ephesians 4:5 one Lord , one faith , one baptism , it's for everyone .
If someone was baptized as a baby, should they be baptized as an adult if they are born again as an adult?
Essentially, by being re-baptized, one is implying that what the Holy Spirit did in one's first baptism was not sufficient. That insults the work of the Holy Spirit. Most people who do get re-baptised though are not trying to insult the Holy Spirit, they do it out of ignorance so God won't hold it against them.
@@candyclews4047 that is where we have the debate between Pedo and Credo baptism now isn’t it? Lol.
Didn’t you support baptismal regeneration in another video and now your saying someone can be regenerated before baptism? 0:55-1:05
That is what i struggled with in the Lutheran church. I would hear "We become a child of God in water baptism". But then I hear, "It is by Grace through faith that we are saved".
"Ten Commandments, the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer out of his head, but they
are revealed and given by God himself, so also I can boast that baptism is no
human trifle, but that it is instituted by God himself, and that it is most solemnly
and rigidly commanded that we must be baptized or we cannot be saved."
THE LARGE CATECHISM OF MARTIN LUTHER page 92.
Non-Jews don't know the meaning of Baptism and Paul the Jewish Apostle only gives a glimpse of what's it all about.
Check out Acts of the Apostles and you will find out why they were all eager to get baptized.
Christians find your Jewish roots.
The obvious question then is...Is everyone that has been baptized saved? I know many people baptized as infants who aren’t close to being a Christian today.
Baptism saves for by it, God's gives the gift of salvation, especially to infants who are also sinners born spiritually dead and under God's wrath and condemnation for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and the wages of sin is death. However, baptized Christians can reject the faith and so exclude themselves from salvation, which they have by means of their baptism.
Yet, they can return to their baptism in repentance for their sins and trust in Jesus and His saving work by the calling and power of the Holy Spirit working three means or tools; this salvation was given to them in their baptism (among the Gospel Word and the Lord's Supper).
Unlike Calvinisit and Reformed Christians, Lutherans believe and confess that Christians can reject or fall away from their salvation, which God offers and gives through faith alone in what Christ has done for all people on the cross, i.e. took all our sins and paid for it, and also reconciles us with God.
shogunshogun So another obvious question: Is someone who repents of their sin and believes the Gospel, but has not been baptized (I.e. the thief on the cross) condemned to hell?
@@sdb6757 Hello Steve. What is it that you are struggling with in relation to baptism as a means of grace, along with God's Word and the Lord's Supper? I'm asking this so we can actually get to foundation of your struggle(s).
Also, the account of thief of on the cross is irrelevant for Jesus' didn't command and instituted baptism until His resurrection.
My questions: 1) What has God revealed in His word about the ways/tools/means He uses to give us salvation?
2) How do we receive salvation that Christ has accomplished for us on the cross?
shogunshogun Paul tells us how everyone is saved, old and New Testament in Romans 4.. “What does the scripture say..(Gen. 15:6) Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness......22] Therefore, it was credited to him for righteousness. [23] Now it was credited to him was not written for Abraham alone, [24] but also for us. It will be credited to us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. [25] He was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.” John agrees: John 20:31 But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”
Paul explains the beautiful truth that we’ve died with Christ, buried with Him and raised again that baptism by immersion in water symbolizes in Romans 6:3-4 Or are you unaware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we were buried with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life.” No struggle here. I should warn you not to trust in your baptism to save you, but trust in Christ’s work for you on the cross.
I’ll end with one of my favorite quotes from Jesus,
John 7:37-38 CSB
[37] On the last and most important day of the festival, Jesus stood up and cried out, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. [38] The one who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, will have streams of living water flow from deep within him."
This is the water from John 3:5 that I know Lutherans teach is about baptism but I strongly disagree. It’s the water of Ezekiel 36:25, and John 4:14.
@@sdb6757 I'm glad you answered my second question as to how we receive salvation--faith alone. However, you have yet to reply to my first question.
The basic problem is one of authority. If Christians have a sincere disagreement, who decides? Whose interpretation of Scripture? Luther, Calvin, Smith?
If by Smith you mean Joseph Smith, his religion is outside of CHRISTIANITY 100% - it's heretical
The Holy Spirit illumines God's word so it's not man but God that has authority.
From the clear passages of Scripture comes the Rule of Faith, which is a summary of heavenly doctrine gathered from the clearest passages of Scripture.
The first part is faith, the chief teachings are laid out in the Apostles' Creed. The second part is love, the sum of teaching is laid out in the Decalogue.
All knowing is the interaction between the thing to be known and the intellect doing the knowing. The illumination of the Holy Spirit is required for this for our understanding have been wretchedly corrupted by sin. Thus, prayer is necessary for us to receive the divine illumination of the Holy Spirit (Lk 11:13; John 16:13).
Therefore, the highest authority of interpreting Scripture is the Holy Spirit.
Either way, you’ll still need to put on your thinking cap as their are various claims to authority. In the end, it’s still your reason that has to decide who to join.
Baloney !