When I hear "lose your salvation" I dont think of it being taken from me etc. I think of it as walking away or apostasy. Hence all of the constant talk of " holding till the end" , " abiding in the vine" , "Persevere till the end" etc. etc.
@@tomtemple69I deed the operation of the Holy Spirit through the Gospel - called: "The hearing of faith" (Galatians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 1 Peter 1:5)
Excellent. No better way to put it. As Dr. Michael Brown puts it "you can't lose your salvation...but you can forfeit it." And I think that language works better with the entirety of the Old Testament.
@bairfreedom anyone believing they can "walk away".. or "apostate".. themselves... does NOT believe in what Calvinism teaches.. those who have been called by God unto salvation.. have received the "irresistible call of the Spirit" this call of the Spirit does Not get directed by God... to someone.. and draws them to God.. Only to allow them to by their own will.. walk away from what God has called them to ... at any point in the future.. God does not treat us like yo-yo's on strings.. or even like a kite on a string.. where we can go flying away from Him... any who have received the call of the Spirit..in other words... called by God.. are His for keeps.. as a Calvinist... I DO believe.. that God has chosen to harden some hearts as he did with the Pharaoh's of Moses day... for reasons known ONLY to Him... but.. these hearts will reject the call from the beginning.... hence blaspheming the spirt... Matthew 12:31-32....these will Not be saved at all.. therefore doomed to the unpardonable sin... I do not believe one can "un-save" themselves.. nor will God withdraw His salvation for ones He has chosen... this would be saying that God makes mistakes.. He doesn't..
It seems to me that many of the Christian traditions attempting to grapple with the issue of salvation and election are divided because they see it from different vantage points. Because Reformed Christians take seriously God's sovereignty, they attempt to look at it from God's perspective, by which they conclude that God will save those whom he will save. Those who fall away were never elect to begin with. This is what God sees. On the other hand, from a human perspective it certainly appears that those who once claimed to be saved have indeed lost their salvation. Hence the warnings in Scripture. Arminians and Lutherans take these passages seriously, with the former assuming that we must co-operate with God's "prevenient grace" and the latter taking more of a paradoxical approach yet affirming ultimately that our salvation comes from God alone. North American evangelicals, i.e., the heirs of the 18th- and 19th-century awakenings and revivals, start out as Arminians but try to end up as Calvinists. That is, they believe that once one has "accepted Jesus Christ as personal saviour," one is in the fold and nothing he does afterwards will take him out of the fold. Hence the carnal Christians that we hear about in these circles. This is a serious deformation of the Reformation. I myself am Reformed, but I would take issue with those in our churches, especially young people, who believe they can drink to excess and live more or less as they like because they are already "in." That is a presumptuous approach to God's grace that fails to take seriously the need for sanctification. Thanks for the video. Very interesting.
I just want to respond to your comment where you said, "...Reformed Christians take seriously God's sovereignty,...". All due respect, and I mean that sincerely... I see Calvinists make this false claim all the time. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the non-Calvinists, if not all of the one's I know do indeed take God's "sovereignty" serious. I've studied the subject of the varying views of soteriology for quite a few years and what I see is a mistake made by Calvinists where they define "sovereignty" in an idiosyncratic way. If Calvinists would correctly define sovereignty it would cause them to put aside a bias they have based on a false presupposition of God's sovereignty.
PAUL'S WORDS do read and take serious. Because your reasoning is FULL of the creeds and traditions of men and we must discern absolute from relative arguments. This one is an absolute one and not subject to relativism or further context. Romans 8:38 "38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow-not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below-indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord." If indeed" nothing in all of creation will ever be able to seperate us from the love of God "then we as Christians cannot fall away even when we try. I don't care for opinions and am merely here to call out such heresy. I say this as one who has witnessed EL ELYON on his throne, of whom I did not know of and who's face I could not see on the throne, until I was "sanctified" on his right hand side. Not by my works, but by his decree "that [I] might believe" and never can fall away despite wrestling with God and my faith in him. Sanctification is nothing you yourself do. Our actions are merely the affirmation of such heavenly decrees. But once saved, we are never in no wise - panteles - able to lose salvation. Period.
Because He knew squabbles of this nature would come up, Jesus in His wisdom did not leave us orphans----He established the Catholic Church and gave it infallible teaching authority. Our Holy Mother the Catholic Church teaches that salvation (the "state of grace ") can be forfeited, and all it takes is one mortal sin. The Church further teaches that the state of grace can be re-gained by a sincere repentance and good Confession .
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 Nothing will separate us from God's love. God loves saints and sinners alike. If we sin and break from Him, we lose our salvation (we lose the state of grace) but He still loves. God punished Adam and Eve but He still punished them. God even loves the souls in Hell. The fire they experience is only the fire of His love, experienced by the souls in Hell as painful because they do lot love God back. They will stay in Hell forever but God still loves them. So "nothing can separate us from God's love" does not mean once-saved-always-saved. Once-saved-always-saved is a license to sin.
I am a a reformed guy... But I love these videos. I appreciate you *brother.* You challenge me... and that's always a good thing. God bless you friend!
As long as you're being honest and seeking the scripture and not a theologian like White or Durbin to explain it away in textual criticism or Calvinistic doctrine rather than just God's word then you'll be okay.
@@Livelife95ify are you saying that the entirety of reformed theology is false? If so then that would mean that you are saying that the diety of Christ is false, salvation by faith through grace (alone) is false, etc... do you believe those things are false?
I would suggest you have studied more but glad you have peace no matter what. The Scriptures scream to us that God PRESERVES His people. The "if" passages aren't prescriptive. Prove it to me from the Greek. They are DESCRIPTIVE. Showing what the true Christians will do. Perseverance of the Saints. The warning passages are not hypothetical. Apostasy is real...but again not for the born again child of God.
There are many passages that suggest that salvation can never be lost or forfeited and there are many passages that suggest that salvation can indeed be lost or forfeited. That is why the Protestant notion that every believer can interpret the Scripture for himself is totally wrong. We need the infallible teaching authority of our Holy Mother the Catholic Church, sometimes called the magisterium. Our Holy Mother the Catholic Church teaches that the state of grace can indeed be forfeited (Dr. Cooper is quite correct to say that "forfeited" is a better word here than "lost") and all it takes is one mortal sin. The state of grace can be regained by a sincere repentance and good Confession.
@@honeybee-k9z The Confessional Lutheran church preaches Jesus Christ and Him crucified and that alone is our Peace. You speak against things you do not understand.
Thank you for making these videos! I have been Christian (Lutheran) all my life and it is always comforting to hear the Truth (even when it hurts, it heals). Thanks be to God!
I agree. We don't lose God. God will never let his people go. God will never take your salvation away. But we can definitely reject what has been freely given to us. Who in their right mind would ever want to do such a thing? Not me!
It appears to me, that Lutherans are speaking out of both sides of their mouth on this issue. " You can fall away, but don't worry, God preserves his people". Well...which is it? If I fall away, then i was never his, or he would have preserved me.
@@FrMoody I've read several Palamist sermons insisting on "I'm being saved," and Lutherans would not deny it. But what do you so with the broader morphology of "save" in the NT? It certainly says we are being saved, but it also says "He saved us...by the washing of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit," and "By grace you have been saved." biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4982.htm
I don't know how Dr. Cooper feels but his hero Martin Luther taught that only the loss of faith resulted in the loss of salvation, that no believer loses salvation by committing sin. "If anyone should still believe in the stupid ten commandments let him chase himself to the Jews," Luther said.
You are begging the question. You assume because we are saved then God would not let us fall away. But this does nothing to address the very real possibility of turning away and resisting his grace. Falling away does not mean we were never his it means we rejected him.
This is the best biblical explanation that I have heard about walking away from the faith and YES because you have a free will you can lose your salvation
1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." People that leave the faith, stop abiding in it, fall away or whatever way you want to state it....were never truly saved....or they would not have left.
The passage you cite has nothing to do with a question of perseverance or the assertion of once saved always saved. John is warning against false prophets, antichrists, liars, deceivers, etc.
I scratched my head on this but unlocked the Lutheran DaVinci Code if you will. In Lutheranism you can have real true regenerate "Christians"...all Baptized barbies!!!! So...because the Sacramental efficacy is of main focus always you must be able to account for those who "fall away" after having received true efficacious grace in the water of Baptism. Once you get past this you see Lutherans squirming whenever Calvin is mentioned (sad because Calvin admired Luther unto death) but at the CORE soteriology....and I mean the CORE...there is no difference. What about universal grace? Same answer. You need universal grace to subsidize the efficacy of infant Baptismal regeneration and you must have true apostates as an excuse to handle when one of the Non Elect falls away (yet they truly were BAPTIZED). So...the reason I say that at the CORE. ...the Sola Fide Monergistic CORE is the same is because Lutheran Theology teaches that the ELECT OF GOD shall NEVER perish ..... im good with that. The Apostates they speak of are visible church stragglers...covenant fallouts. Similar to Federal Vision in the sense that there are the Covenantally Elect (Baptized) and then there are the Decretally Elect (regenerated). We have a similar stance in Presbyterianism with the visible and invisible church we just never teach that A regenerated heart can become unregenerated...its a difference in our language and that for the reasons stated above the Lutherans claim that real born again Christians can be lost but never the Elect. We teach that ONLY the Elect are Born Again. Shalom.
@@itslitgamestv6827 Incorrect. That text is talking about Antichrists. It explains who the “they” are and what the “they” were doing. The “they” were Antichrists and they were outright denying that Jesus is the Christ.
Now, however, since you have come to know [the true] God [through personal experience], or rather to be known by God, how is it that you are turning back again to the weak and worthless elemental principles [of religions and philosophies], to which you want to be enslaved all over again? Galatians 4:9 God has given us a choice.. if we are willing to continue with God he will sustain us.. just like we were willing to be saved while he is the one who saves us.. If a person wants to return to deceptive teachings and fall away it's their choice.. and God will not stop because we are humans.. not robots!
If it's left up to me to persevere in the maintenance of faith, I am doomed to failure. I've ever been able to consistently do what I'm supposed to do, or ought to do, or need to do. In fact, the more I try, the more I seem to rebel. I have zero trust in myself. The miracle for me is the fact that when I finally threw in the towel and gave it all to God, I began to do the right things without even having to try very hard. I don't think I chose God....I think that He chose me, and in order to persevere in faith, I have to believe that He's got a plan, and it WILL be completed! If that makes me a Calvinist, then so be it. Blessings to all.
We Roman Catholics believe so. A true Christian can lose his faith, loose his state of grace, and if he dies without repentance, he will condemn himself forever. You have made some very good points about that here.
Even Nicodemus understood that a person could not enter again into their mother’s womb so as to be born a second time. But in this is something essential to recognize… just as a person cannot enter back into the womb in order to be reborn, so a person cannot become unborn. A person cannot become unborn of the Spirit and work to undo the work of God. For what God has joined together let no man tear apart. In Him we have become joined in union with God. We have been born of God. We have been made a new creation.
They are talking about animal sacrifice they was trying to go back to animal sacrifice and Paul was telling in Jesus Christ his only sacrifice will save you
?????? What ? What ? What ? Don't you know that Hebrews is written to all Christians? Read Chapter 1:1, 2 Read Chapter 2:3, 4 Read Chapter 12:22-25 GOD has spoken to US by His SON in fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:15-19 / Acts 2:33 If you read John's Gospel (eg 14:23, 24) you will find the Lord reiterating this theme and it's found in Luke also (Luke 10:16) But as to "walking away from grace", That is made abundantly clear in Hebrews 3:12. Indeed Hebrews 3:14 uses the perfect tense to say we are become (Riight now) PARTAKERS OF CHRIST, And yet the inspired author uses the conditional clause in tandem with his statement: "IF hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end" This is no different to the warning the Lord gave us: "He that endures to the end shall be saved"
1 Corinthians 15:1 - Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 1 Corinthians 15:3 - For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Corinthians 15:4 - And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Acts 16:30 - And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be Saved? Acts 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy House.
John 6:47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that BELIEVETH on me Hath EVERLASTING LIFE. Do you believe God is a liar? John 6:40. John 10:28-29. Do you believe you can save yourself? Then you have made the cross of no effect and BELEIVE Jesus died in vain. Galatians 2:21. Do you believe the GIFT of God is eternal life? Romans 6:23. Second Timothy 2:13. Once we believe on Jesus alone, apart from any works, (Romans 4:5) we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13-14 And Ephesians 4:30. Gods word. John 3:18 Believers can no longer be condemned. First John 5:13. How do we know we have eternal life? God said so. God cannot lie. Since the gift of God is eternal life, and Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, First John 2:2, Then it is up to us to believe it to be saved forever. Hebrews 13:5. John 3:16. Jesus said it, we believe it, and that settles it. John 5:24
Romans 6:23. The GIFT of God is eternal life. Second Corinthians 9:13. Thanks be to God for His UNSPEAKABLE GIFT. Once we accept the GIFT, we have eternal life. If we could lose it, it would not be eternal life. John 5:24. John 6:40. John 10:28-29. Hebrews 13:5. The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. Romans 1:16. Ephesians 1:13-14. Our guarantee of eternal life. Ephesians 4:30. Sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. We can be chastened by the Lord, Colossians 3:5-6, and we can lose the rewards we could have had in heaven, First Corinthians 3:11-15, But not eternal life. First John 5:13. These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. Disclaimer. I am not a Calvinist, nor am I an Arminian, just a bible believer. John 3:18 Everyone is either one or the other. Has believed and has eternal life, or has not believed and does not have eternal life. The simplicity of the gospel. Acts 16:31.
I respectfully disagree with your teaching and please expound these verses for me please; John10:28-29; 1John5:13; Romans5:1 ; Romans 8:30 and many more verses that contradicts your teaching.
I guess no one is going to answer how there are many Christians who do return to faith and true repentance after falling away from Christ for years. Either they have not committed the sin of irrevocable apostasy or is there a possibility we're reading Hebrews 6:4-6 wrong?
Thank you so much! I've struggled with the book of Rev where it says we can be taken out of the Book of Life and knew in my heart we can stop believing.
@@gregorylatta8159 then you haven't read the Book of Rev, not only does it come with a promise, but says if you add or take away from "this book" your name will be blotted out from the Book of Life. BTW, never remembered Jesus saying "duh" to a believer so maybe change your funky attitude foolish one (He did call people fools so, I can say that). Have a great day
@@gregorylatta8159 Gen 21:27 "But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life." Greek will be different than English for sure, but just about every English Bible says book. Both are wood literally so, I can accept tree haha. This is interesting tho, id like to know more because the book of Gen says tree of life so, I would like to know more about how they're similar. Thank you for this incite
@@Shellyspurr The Lambs book of life is usually thought of as the list that was made before the foundation of the world of those predestined for salvation. There is much debate within Christianity about this and many issues such as OSAS and many many others. All I can say is no matter what anyone thinks I am going to trust Jesus alone for my salvation and I suggest others do the same.
I don't feel a person who is truly saved CAN walk away or "forfeit"... their faith... to believe such a ridiculous idea... goes against EVERYTHING.. the fundamentals of Calvinist teaching teaches.. maybe if one does NOT believe that God is totally Sovereign over ALL of His creation.. one might believe this.. but believing as I do that God is in control of everything....we cannot rightfully think that God allows this to be possible... God does not play games with human lives.. allowing people to live as saved Christians for a length of time.. and then at some point. .turn His back on them.. or rather just harden their hearts to the idea of that Christian having eternal life.. I really like your explanation of supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism....BUT honestly... in regards to one forfeiting their salvation... your Lutheran roots are showing.. I realize that as a Lutheran you perhaps did not receive a whole lot of teaching on Calvinism... I was raised a Catholic ,,, myself... and so the idea of "once saved.." was new to me since I was brought up believing.. assumption of salvation was the sin of presumption... a NO-NO.. let alone.. saved Once and for all.. apparently YOU do not believe once God has allowed one to be saved... it is a permanent DONE deal.. I believe there are a lot of Pseudo-Christians out there... ones who have convinced themselves by walking the walk and talking the talk that they ARE Christians... these will be the ones who will stand before Jesus one day and hear Him say,.. "depart from me... I never knew you"... but as far as those who God has called to salvation.. to believe one can reject their faith or forfeit it.. once they have received it... calls into question the sovereignty of God... as well as opening the door to the idea of God capable of making a mistake... God does Not make mistakes.. he doesn't allow any to be saved so they can "forfeit".. their salvation later..
Enjoying your content, but have to disagree on this important topic. So, God regenerates a sinner and makes him His son with forknowledge that they will be lost. What is the regeneration of the Spirit doing to a person? According to what you teach, such man can sin and lose faith and salvation. Now. Your "if" verses are evidential, as are "plenty of others." Paul is saying, as James, that true faith has to be shown. He also is agreeing with Christ, who is saying how there are 4 types of faith. Only one is bringing forth fruits. I have no problem with that it has appeared to have faith. Repentance is not automatically faith! Btw. You are trying to say that salvation is not by works but then you say that losing the faith is persistence in unrepentant sin. Plus if we receiving sacraments??? If I take (a deed) sacrament? The only sacrament that saves is faith! Christ has baptised in Him all those who believe, including the poor soul on the cross right from him. Warning passages is for people to see if they have true or false faith, not that they lose genuine faith. There will be no sons of God in Hell.
Thanks Pastor for walking the razors edge of the Word of God. I stuggled with this doctrine as God brought me out of Calvinism by His word alone. God's peace be with you.
I think of one falls away, the better way to describe it in my opinion is they never had a Christ-centered foundation of faith, as shown in the parable of the sower. Those who have a Christ-centered foundation of faith, will never fall away.
Today nobody wants conditions or requirements. They all want the Joseph Prince "greasy grace" message....JESUS said, "My FATHER loves those who obey HIM❤
Just curious, do Lutherans believe the Lord Jesus Christ is a liar? The reason I ask is that Jesus said in the well-known passage in John 10:28-29, "And I give them (My sheep) eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand." If someone can walk away (snatch themselves away) from salvation (from being one of the Lord's sheep), then...."eternal life" doesn't actually mean "eternal life" and "never perish" dosen't actually mean "never perish." Therefore, Jesus would clearly be a liar. BTW, "never perish" is in a Greek construction that means "perishing" is not even in the realm of potentiality. IOW, Jesus says that it's not even potentially possible that one of His sheep can EVER perish. Earthly example - it's not even potentially possible for a hummingbird to swoop down and carry off a elephant. The same potentiality goes for anyone who is one of the Lord's sheep - it's not possible, end of discussion, for them to perish and miss out on eternal life....unless Jesus lied. Just my two cents.....
The matter of Hymenaeus and Alexander puzzles me. The purpose of handing them over to Satan is that they might learn something (in their case, not to blaspheme). Why seek to teach someone who is gone for good to repent unless shipwreck is not quite as final as it sounds?
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare”what He had previously declared. A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13-14)
PERSEVERE OVERCOME ENDURE to the end. FIGHT the good fight! HOLD ON on to the faith. More than 80 warnings in the New Testament about falling away. The bottom line is, we have FREE WILL & GOD doesn't Force HIS will upon us❤
Thank you for an honest treatment of the idea! Finally! My very real dilemma is thus: I see that "there remains no repentance" in Hebrews 6:4-6, but I also see that this passage comes after 3 exhortations of "today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." If it is my desire to return to Him, is it possible I only *thought* I fell away, or is it possible I'm being deceived into thinking I merely want to repent? Regardless- thank you for handling this idea in a way that finally feels like someone is being honest with the text and not playing semantic games.
I like these videos but I think he missed the calvanist perspective here. The idea isnt that cooperation is not explicitly laid out in scripture alongside faith. Any calvanist worth their salt will agree all day long with that. The issue is this ever present idea that along with personal cooperation, God still simultaneously maintains control over his elect. If you look to the trinity, does God being 3 persons work within our understanding? Or do we fundamentally believe it because is shown to be true in scripture? Calvanism works the same way.
"true" christian, "good" christian, "real" christian...one might just as well ask "Can the 'real' Jesus save to the uttermost?" Only He who is the Christ of God does, and only He who is the Christ knows His own. Is it enough...that Christ knows? And knows His own? If not, what would be "enough"?
That would be calling God a liar and not maintaining faith/trust in God, His Word and Work. We call it a seared conscience, the remedy is the hammer of God, and private honest confession and Absolution.
But how do we know if we've lost our salvation?? What categorize wilful sin? Are we talking about someone who struggle consistently but feels convicted of sin or someone who doesn't care and reject Christ completely after experiencing difficult situations? Are we talking about someone who walks away from community because of church hurt or abuse but ends up coming back because they feel called to repentance? This is a very confusing and terrifying, could you expend on the characteristics of those who did?
he fails to quote the Scriptures which go beyond, "having" to endure/persevere, to actually DOING so, and doing so, "unto the end"; such as Heb. 3:14 that guaranteee the "final perseverance" of God's saints.....this passage remains an impenetrable "bull-wark" against these "loss-of-salvation" peddlars.....
"though we thus speak." (i.e. what they have just said) "things that accompany salvation, " (i.e. Beloved of God, these things DO NOT accompany Salvation, and therefore DO NOT apply to you ) Hebrews 6:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Only born-again Christians are going in the rapture. To be born-again is to be filled with the Holy Spirit. (This is not an intellectual experience.) When the Holy Spirit fills you; you will know that Jesus is as real as you are; He is a spirit of truth. There may only be 35 to 100 million born-again Christians worldwide (I won’t lay out the calculation here). If children under the age of accountability go in the rapture, then number will be way higher; I don’t have a good answer to that question, yes or no. There will be a “shout and a last trump,” but only the born again will hear it and be taken. As for the “folded clothes,” that’s Hollywood-we don’t know or care. And the Hollywood “2 billion” rapture number means anyone who ever checked a box on a pole question makes them a Christian-nonsense. The rapture is God taking His Holy Spirit out of this world, prior to his judgment (tribulation). Personally, I believe many people will be born again during the tribulation; this is the church remnant that wouldn’t listen until now, but they will still endure the antichrist here. The eucharist and all it entails, may be the issue holding back millions from the truth. God Bless you, Dr. Cooper
OS;AS which some Baptist's teach is SO ridiculous I don't know where to begin. It literally is say the sinners prayer, apostatize straight afterwards and live a degradedly sinful life until death and still go to heaven. The Reformed position is more defensible but I think still falls down under scrutiny
As a non-Calvinist Baptist working out my own understandings of the issue, you really had me agreeing with you all the way through until you said "sacraments," there at the end. Yes, the Bible says pretty clearly that you can cast off your saving faith, and it also says pretty clearly that anyone who keeps their faith intact has iron-clad assurance, but the Bible says 0 about that assurance being based in any part on regularly receiving sacraments. It is faith alone. We can say that faith is our "part" of the salvation process only because it is not a work or an action by which we receive credit. The Bible uses "faith" and "works" in contra-distinction. However, if keeping the faith, and thus salvation, requires any works (which sacraments blatantly are), then the sacraments are what ensure salvation. It is not God ensuring our salvation by giving us the faith we need to assent in trust, but us ensuring our salvation by maintaining our faith through pious activity.
Lutherans baptize comatose family members if there's any evidence they are believers and wanted to be baptized eventually. Lutherans baptize the quadriplegic. And Lutherans baptize babies. I never seen no baby do no work.
If we define "works" as "anything physical that ever occurs", of course the sacraments are works. But by this definition, the death and resurrection of Christ is a work, and we know we are saved by the death and resurrection of Christ. So the definition of "work" in this context must be "anything physical of man's doing" (as opposed to God's doing). Your argument then rests on a presupposition that the sacraments (baptism and communion) are works of man. The orthodox Lutheran understanding is that these are absolutely not works of man, but works of God. If a dirty dish is washed clean, it is not the dish which worked itself clean, but the washer of the dish who did the work. So it is in baptism, where it is not the water which purifies, but the "washing of the water with the Word" (Eph 5:26). Further, we know God does use physical things to accomplish His will. We are physical bodies, and will be reunited with our physical bodies in the last day. We place our trust in the physical blood of Jesus on a physical cross at a precise time and location in history, and His physical resurrection. The sick woman who touched Jesus' garment in Luke 8 was made well by faith, at the moment she touched Jesus' physical robe. A few seconds before she touched His robe, she had faith that once she touched His robe, she would be healed. But she was not healed until physically touching his physical robe. The sacraments of baptism and communion were instituted by Christ Himself and are not ours to do away with. If the Bible said "pat yourself on top of your head five times and you will be saved" we would all take it at face value. But when St Paul says in Acts 22:16, "Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins", we say we don't need baptism to wash away our sins. And when St Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that "baptism now saves you", we say no it doesn't. And when Christ Himself says in Matthew 26 that "This [the wine] is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins", we say it's not actually His blood and it doesn't actually work forgiveness of sins. Faith alone saves, and we must have faith that His Word and the blessed sacraments will deliver what He has promised!
"Once Saved, Always Saved" is NON-Biblical, not supported by the Bible... why?... St. Paul said, we must all be steadfast with our Faith in Christ and "RUN to the fullest" and must have the "intension" to finish the RACE, for the REWARD is at the "Finish Line" (the hour of our own final breath, comes death), and not along the way or in the middle of the race track... Yes, it is true what Christ said, that what belongs to Him which the Father gave to Christ will not be taken away (snatch) from Christ's hands (John 10:28/paraphrased),... but humans have "Free Will" and weakness in flesh, from time to time human sin and some will do the unthinkable sin and died right away by accident without repentance... Christ said, that we must all keep our Clothes/Garments CLEAN at all times, for we never know the Day and the Hour the THIEF (Death) comes in our doorway... (Rev. 16:15/Matt. 24:42/2Peter 3:1-18 and more supported verses). The "THIEF" symbolized "DEATH" and the "2ND COMING OF CHRIST," for nobody knows "the day and the hour" neither by the Son of God nor the Angels but the Father God alone knows... The bible said, that God is the "GIVER and TAKER" of all His creation's "LIVES"... while Christ Jesus (Son of God) is the "Life Giver" only... Christ said, he who believes in me, and I in him will have the Eternal (Giving) Life... To God, be the Glory, Power, and Honor, in Christ Jesus name... Amen.
If you don't think people can fall away then you don't believe in people still sinning. The 99 vs 1 sheep always reminds me of how you were part of a flock but left and He came for me. Or Prodical son was part of the family. Left and came back. They all did repent and come home. But did they do more than others. They gave all in to sin nature and worlds culture if you look at the son. I struggle but Love God. Wish I was perfect but I am like filthy rags in my righteousness compared to what He wants us to be. Always can use prayer.
I grew up Lutheran and am excited to have found your channel. Concerning this issue, could you give your understanding how someone gets "saved" or receives salvation in the first place? Just to lay some foundation before we go to the Lutheran understanding of losing it or not.
cool, And could you also tell me what type of Lutheran you are? I grew up in the ELCA church and I know there are different types. That might help with some understanding as well.
I am a pastor in the AALC. We are quite small. We were founded by the old ALC by churches who did not want to join the merger that became the ELCA, because we had some concern regarding their views on Scripture.
I watched this video and also looked up the AALC. I would say I find your beliefs more Biblical than what I have experienced with the ELCA. I don't believe all that you are saying and find it all a bit "religious". By that I mean traditions of man more than a relationship with God Himself. It seems that from your video I would agree on the basics of how one gets saved. I certainly don't hold to any teaching that says infants should be baptized or that it accomplishes anything in terms of that child's salvation. Salvation is a choice that we make to accept what Jesus did for us on the cross. A baby can't do that and the parents can't do that for them. However, I'll watch some more and listen to what you have to say. Maybe you can move from water baptism to the baptism of the Holy Spirit as it was in Acts. You do know that is still available to us today, right?! Romans 10:9-10 English Standard Version (ESV) 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
nope..."loss-of-salvation" is first of all 1. totally refuted by such as 1 John 2:19; Heb. 3:14, which the whole "loss..." phalanx has never answered.... 2. "loss..." doctrine represents not only a total, "up-ending" of Scriptural doctrine, but also a total repudiation of Luther's basic "thoughts" re the gospel (i.e., the "hinge"); "loss" is a sad remnant, of the Romish/Eastern cults, one of the many that still reside in mainstream Lutheranism; thus, you "loss" peddlars affirm a "god" (?), who can only keep the trees of his garden, by threatening to "burn" them; a general, who can only keep his troops, under threat of "court-martial/execution"; your god, is a "King", who can only keep His subjects, via he threat of "banishment"; and (WORST OF ALL!!!) your "god", is a "father", who can only keep His children, via the threat of disownment!! AMAZING it is, that you Lutherans can hold "Bondage..." in one handm and hold to "loss..." on the other; but since you affirm "salvation-by-works" via your "baptismal regeneration" error, thus is no surprise.....if I thought your, "Christians can break God's saving hold, via sin" doctrine was true for 1 second, I would just go and take my chances, in the "Lake".....sad it is, when Christians become BLIND to what sin is; and NUMB, to what sin does......
Faith without works is dead. James 2 is all about works. Every parable Jesus told was about different levels of servanthood. The luke warm are spewed out of his mouth. Not producing good fruit is weeded and burnt.
Unrepentant sin doesn't destroy faith. It destroys love. The one glaring error in Luther's theology stems from simple inexperience. Any Christian who has actually backslidden into long periods of unrepentant sin knows that it doesn't destroy their faith. They continue believing and trusting in Christ, they just want to keep sinning. This might boggle your mind, but millions of believers are living in prolonged unrepentant sin all around the world. There's nothing impossible about it. But they don't retain salvation in that, just because they believe. The demons believe. Nor does simply trusting that you are saved because of Christ's death guarantee it, for that too can be done while living in unrepentant sin. What you need is repentance, not just faith or trust, and only with repentance does faith become instrumental of salvation (ie, of love for God).
I hope so. They need to be freed from this kind of nonsense It's just not adult. If you think you're saved just by believing, when you stop believing the salvation goes. That's the logical answer.
Some Christians believe that if a saved person enters into a sinful lifestyle and fails to repent then he will still get to heaven but will lose rewards. Their proof text is 1 Cor. 3:13-15 which say, “his work will be shown for what it is … the fire will test the quality of each man’s work … If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames”. Notice that these verses are referring to the testing of a man’s work, not sin. If the passage in 1 Cor. 3-4 was talking about sin then it would be saying - I) Those who build with good, golden sins will be rewarded. II) Those who build with not so good, straw sins will lose their rewards. Of course this is ridiculous. Whoever heard of building a church with sin or God rewarding someone for sin? In this article, I would like to show that these verses are not speaking about sin in the least but about how we work to build the church on the foundation of the gospel of Jesus. Beginning with 1 Cor. 1:11- 13 and 1 Cor. 3:1-8, these verses tell us that the Corinthians were fighting about whether they should follow Paul, Apollos or Cephas. Paul said that their focus should be on Jesus because men are mere servants with assigned tasks; one man plants, another waters and each man will be rewarded according to his own labour. Next, in 1 Cor. 3:9-11, he continues on to say that we are God’s workers, His field and His building (His church) and that he, Paul, has laid a foundation as an expert builder and each of us must be careful how we build on that foundation, which is Jesus Christ. Then 1 Cor. 3:12-15 talk about how we build the church and warn that fire will test the quality of each man’s work. The verses say that we can - a) Build with gold, silver or costly stones and receive our reward or b) Build with wood, hay or straw and, although we will still be saved, our work will be burned up. Building with gold, silver or costly stones represent good leadership and sound doctrine while wood, hay and straw represent poor leadership and unsound doctrine. Sin is not in question here. So far, Paul has spoken about building the church with either good or poor leadership and doctrine but now he continues on to speak about bad leadership and doctrine which destroys a church. 1 Cor. 3:16-17 say, “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you [plural] are that temple”. The term “God’s temple” is referring to the church, the body of Christ, and these verses say that God will destroy anyone who destroys His church (see 2 Pet. 2). Then, from 1 Cor. 3:18, Paul continues on to further warn us not to follow men. In 1 Cor. 4:6 he sums up what he has said so far (from 1 Cor. 3:1) by saying that he has applied these things to himself and Apollos so that we could learn the meaning of the saying, “’Do not go beyond what is written.’ Then you will not take pride in one man over against another”. He is saying that the entire passage is to warn us not to follow men but to stay with what is written. In 1 Cor. 4:2 he said, “it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful”, and it is by not going beyond what is written that we remain faithful to that trust. So we can see that this passage of scripture has nothing to do with sin. It is a warning for us not to follow men’s wisdom but to use the written Word to build on the foundation of Jesus because our rewards will be according to the way we build. If we build with sound biblical doctrine then we will be rewarded. If we build with poor doctrine then we will still be saved but lose our rewards. If anyone destroys the church then he will be destroyed. If we attempt to make sin the context of this passage then it will make no sense at all as words like build, labour and work don’t relate to sin. Likewise, sin can’t be related to building with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay and straw unless we say that we will be rewarded for good sins and lose our reward for bad sins. The fact is, sin is not the subject of this passage. To make it a bit clearer, let’s consider a Christian who dies while refusing to repent of his adultery. Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) believers will say that he will still get to heaven but lose some rewards. This is entirely out of context with the passage in question as the man was not building on the foundation of Jesus while he was in adultery, he was just fulfilling his lusts. He wasn’t building the church while he remained in sin, he was just building his condemnation. The truth is, this passage is taken entirely out of context by OSAS believers. An unrepentant sinner will not suffer a loss of rewards for his sin but eternal condemnation.
I’m trying to understand Protestant Christianity and It reminds me the Common Law (I’m an LLM): there are plenty of different ”churches” based on different literal interpretation of the scriptures. But in this way, Everyone can wake up and invent a new interpretation and therefore a new church. But what is the point in multiply churches? I think that this law/lawyer approach to Christ creates a lot of rules and tires but It does not answer to the existential questions of the people. Christians never had copies of the bible for the first 1.400 years... how could they be Christians without a book? I think that the main point of the Christianity is the event itself (god becomes a man); not the creation of another holy book. I prefer the catholic style because it’s more like civil law: one code to avoid endless discussion that make the message distant for the people. The first Christians were fisherman and sheppards, not intellectuals. Christ is love and love is simple. You don’t need to study to be in love; you just need to find someone. This is how humans works; this is how love work. The risk is too create a club for people interested in details. Sorry if I sounded offensive; it was not my intention. I just wanted to state my pony; I appreciate what you do; but maybe I’m too catholic for that...
In my own opinion, Catholicism resembles common law because of the development of doctrine, and the ongoing harmonization of multiple sources of authority (the consensus of bishops, the Patristic writings, the Scriptures, the councils, and private revelations such as Fatima) with the Papacy as the final court of appeal. Protestantism resembles civil law because of its insistence upon self-contained documents (compare the Book of Concord or the Westminster Confession to the Napoleonic Code, for instance).
Those people falling away from the faith at that time were probably never saved in the first place! A True believer IN Christ is not being referred to in that verse, but who were professors and couldn't fool God! They were fakers!!!
I don't like the phrase 'once saved always saved' I don't think you'll find phrasing in the bible to back that up I much prefer perseverance of the saints or preservation of the saints
A true Christian can not willfully depart in the sense that they fall away and just don't desire to return. The christian person has been changed forever. they have an undying love for God. But the idea is that a christian could get in trouble with god from unrepentant sin while fully being aware of it therefore having no excuse would then fall under gods judgment and become apostate, with a fearfull expectation of judgment. Wheather thats tru or not, i hope its not, but i no for shure a christian canot just altogether forget about there faith wich has become a part of them at new birth.
I don't agree with this at all. It seems that Luther did not teach this either. I think the misunderstanding lies with the doctrine of Regeneration, what it means to be Justified and sealed by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit as surety of Salvation. God is both the Author and Finisher of our faith and once one is sealed by the Holy Spirit, they are guaranteed an inheritance, as well as chastening and God working "in you, both to will and to act according to His good pleasure." "Christ in me, the hope of glory!" This teaching will boil down to Fideism and placing faith in one's own faith. Justification and regeneration are not a process. Sanctification is. If one struggles with habitual sin like heresy, sectarianism, etc...Does that mean they have "lost their faith." If so, then all denominations have basically apostatized, since schisms were condemned in the Apostolic writings of the NT and Luther himself abhorred people using his name...
I have always understood salvation this way. this is one of the problems with Calvinist. Believing OSAS also leads to a flesh life rather than a spirit life.
Also the Bible is not a fortune cookie. Their are dispensations. The book of James is written to the 12 scattered tribes of Israel. Some Christians believe it is for the tribulation dispensation. Not everything in the Bible is to me but it is for me.
Ding diddy de ding de ding diddity ding. Pahm pa pa pahm pahm pahm. Meet Agent 007. He believes in once-saved-always-saved and he has a license to sin. Pahm pa pa pahm pahm pahm!
What about a saved person who genuinely loves and knows Christ but falls into a dry season for a period of time and becomes more apathetic about sin for a period of time.. but then comes back to repentance a while later. Is it too late for them?
A born again person can reject his faith.. God doesn't force his will on anyone.. but if your a person who genuinely follow God I don't think hel let you fall away. Hel bring a person back no matter how far he's gone.. but again his willingness wil matter.
If a person will fall away from faith to the point God will cut away him, he will never come back to faith - he is doomed as letter of hebrews undeniably stayed.
"Produce fruit in keeping with repentance." It has to do with the holy Spirit initiating conviction and us not grieving the holy Spirit..... And this way it is the indwelling of the holy Spirit that draws us. But free will determines if we will listen to the conviction or if we will continuously walk in sin and rebellion. God is omniscient and he knows who will come to him and run the race to the end from the foundation of the world.
No, we abandon him however. Calvin's theology came from augustine, who invented predestination as a desperate response to pelagius in their letter correspondence. Augustin spent 9 years with the manichaens, its no wonder he had such repugnant doctrine.
"Peter, the formidable rock, falling into great sin and experienced in struggle, did not despair and did not lose the presence of the Spirit, rather he shed bitter tears from a warm heart and, seeing that, the devil fled from him as though burned by fire." - St. Seraphim Of Sarov Christ created us with free will, He even allows us to fall into sin in order for us to remain humble and contrite and not become proud as the demons/devils who themselves don't eat food nor sleep, have sexual relations and have knowledge of the Scriptures. Peter denied the Lord three times and supported false doctrine(Judaizing) yet the Lord accepted his repentance and self-correction. God bless!
@@anthonyp6055 I understand your point (and agree full heartedly)...but how do we reconcile that with the Hebrews passage that says "it's impossible to renew the repentant back to repentance"? I know I'll find the answer eventually...I just need to search.
I agree with you on this subject and that was how I was taught on the subject, and it's also what see in the scriptures on the subject. And I see scripture as wise to be warning Christians to be careful to remain in the faith. There's no reason why they can't lose their salvation through being overly confident of their standing with God, as the Pharisees of Jesus' time did! They need to be as a good watchman, Jesus said - living as though always waiting confidently (through always remembering to be watchful and careful) for Jesus' coming!
What do you mean? As regards to oneself - or as regards to those who fail to understand this subject correctly? Hebrews 7 - I think it is - explains how obedience is required - repentance is necessary. Exactly what the people of Israel - the majority refused to do. And repaed thei rjust reward as a result. @@trustchristnotmyselfextran6298
@@debbystevens7494, peace sister. I'm asking that if this video is true and a Christian can Spirit filled Christian can forfeit Salvation, then what are we as Christians supposed to do? Where do we find our assurance?
@@trustchristnotmyselfextran6298 What are we supposed to do? We are supposed to avoid all mortal sin. If we have the misfortune to commit a mortal sin God will forgive us if we have sincere repentance and if we go to Confession.
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. Phillipians 1:6 Can you please explain how this verse fits in as well?
Philippians 1:6 has to be interpreted in the light of Matthew 10:22 (Scripture interprets Scripture). If we persevere in grace, avoiding mortal sin, repenting of mortal sin if we have the misfortune to commit one, then yes, we will grow to perfection in Christ.
How do you reconcile these passages with the passages that teach eternal security and perseverance, such as; John 6:37-39, John 10:28-29, Romans 8:28-31?
Let’s flip the around. How do you reconcile those texts you posted with the ones he pointed out within taking the hypothetical but not possible view or being externally connected to the church without true faith?
@@JonathanGrandt He reconciles them the way Lutheran doctors always have. bookofconcord.org/sd-election?setSidebar=min#para68 bookofconcord.org/sd-election.php#para12 bookofconcord.org/exhortation.php
Let's face it, the Bible contradicts itself a lot. That's why we need the infallible teaching authority of our Holy Mother the Catholic Church. See 2 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 3:16, and Acts 8:31.
Let's face it the Bible contradicts itself all over the place. That's why we need the infallible teaching authority of our Holy Mother the Catholic Church.
What if some people fall away or are apostate and later return to Christ in genuine faith and repentance? I've heard very few of you guys expound on this!
I've heard from a Lutheran Pastor that God gives us the faith to believe......so does he take it away? And what do the words "eternal life" mean if not eternal?.....How many times can we "fall away" and then come back....does Scripture say? I'm not being sarcastic here, I just see so much evidence for OSAS compared to the verses that possibly say the opposite.....shouldn't we go with the preponderance of Scripture?
I think Scripture says that those who fall away can not return. At times it seems almost like there are 2 groups. 1 being Elect and 2 being those who come to Faith. Maybe the truly elect can not fall away but those whom follow Christ can. I’m probably wrong, but I fail to understand how it sometimes seems like there are different rules applied to “Elect” than other Christians.
Eternal life is the knowledge of Him, jn 17.3. It is participation in His uncreated life. When we stop obeying the gospel we become disconnected from grace and need to be renewed. David experienced this and thus said, God take not your holy Spirit from me. See you soon , iakobe.
God never takes away salvation (more accurately called "the state of grace" because no one knows for certain that he will be saved). Nor can any power in Heaven or on earth....except....we ourselves. The state of grace is a free gift, true, but like any gift it can be thrown away. We lose the state of grace by committing just one mortal sin, but God is merciful and will restore us to the state of grace if we sincerely repent and go to Confession. Once-saved-always-saved is a license to sin and I think deep down everybody recognizes that.
Any Christian can fall away if they let the world take hold of their hearts. No one is immune from falling that is why it is vital we stay focused on Christ. 2Peter 3:17 “You therefore, beloved, know this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.” On e saved, always saved is Calvinistic.
This is a question frought with all kinds of semantic difficulties. What exactly IS a Christian? Who meets the standards of being a "genuine" Christian? Which ones are regenerate? What does it even mean to "lose" faith or salvation? In some sense, it either continues, or you never had it. You can't tell your wife, "You know, honey, I had a never-ending love for you, but then I just quit."
That is a very good point, Hans. The relationship (personal relationship with Jesus, no?) with Jesus is often likened to a marriage, with Jesus being the groom and our souls being the bride. The book of Revelation speaks of the Church as the mystical body of Christ. Some Catholic hymns speak of Jesus, "the bridegroom of my soul". A nun is considered to be a bride of Christ. In a marriage the partners need to have faith in each other, have hope that the marriage will work, and they must do good works for each other. We should understand that faith without works is dead but we should REALLY understand that love without good works is the phonyest kind of love imaginable. Having faith in each other and that's all that is needed? No.....
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." If believing in Jesus grants you everlasting life, you can never stop having it. Otherwise it's incoherent. It is in the moment you believe that you are passed from death unto life. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24
So is the Holy Spirit a leaking seal till the day of redemption? A new heart of flesh and a new spirit isn't enough to keep someone saved? God can't sovereignly keep someone in the faith ?
@@tomtemple69I don't understand God to force someone to disbelieve or believe in Him. Salvation requires a person's free will and/or volition. The Lord's love is made apparent in that He allows His creation to be able of themselves to serve and obey Him consciously and not involuntarily in a deterministic or fatalistic sense.
@@tomtemple69"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." Matthew 11:12 A particular pious bishop named Theophan importantly clarified; "The fact that the Kingdom of God is "taken by force" presupposes personal effort." A person may have initially or for a long period of time sought it only to then eventually have forsaken it. At one point a person may of their own volition work out their salvation, potentially through particular decisions or judgements of such a person they may fall from the faith or cease to work out their salvation.
@@anthonyp6055 "I don't understand God to force someone to disbelieve or believe in Him. Salvation requires a person's free will and/or volition. The Lord's love is made apparent in that He allows His creation to be able of themselves to serve and obey Him consciously and not involuntarily in a deterministic or fatalistic sense." yeah, that's your opinion the Bible says otherwise also, "force" would imply God doesn't have total and complete control over our existence and doesn't uphold our existence moment by moment
Yes, God loves a repentant sinner. Look to Christ for your faith. You don't find it through introspection. Get baptized if you haven't been, partake of the Lord's supper, worship him in communion of the saints, study his word and pray to him. Don't spend a bunch of time interrogating your heart, spend your energy seeking to serve your King. Turn that over and over in your mind. Godspeed! Welcome back!
@@guyroszel7584 I didn't realize I had fallen I want the HOLY GHOST and not like this I was attacked and got into Spiritual sifted I want to come back and Satan know I don't belong .He was hitting me hard and I didn't understand. I didn't even read and study. Need to be restored and healed. I had the HOLY GHOST and don't remember what happened and got into flesh lies. The attack s mess my nerves
I was married for 22 years. I asked for a divorce and got it. I was guilty of committing sexual sins. She remarried after 2 years and divorced again. I have been with another women for 18 years but I am not married. I still have sexual relations with the woman. I belirve that Christ died for all of my sins but I have fear that I will go to hell because I'm not married. If God takes me tonight will I go to hell?
If you belong to God, listen and don’t resist God or harden your heart. What is it that God would have you do? Will you put your faith in God as savior from your old ways to live the life He has for you? That is the question to answer first.
This is a great explanation of the text. First Get the book, it’s excellent. I love my evangelical brothers and sisters in Christ, but like Dr Cooper I struggled with this issue. With COVID-19 and everything else I can say as a matter of fact my faith is weaker than it was months ago. I still repent and reach out as I need God so much more than I can comprehend. The fact people can backslide to apostasy is real, not through works, but through a lack of faith. When evangelicals say that there are only maybe a few lines in the Bible that indicate you might lose your faith, and eternal security is all over the place, I just could not see that as I read the whole new testament. I found it to be the opposite. I also believe the Lutheran position described here provides the most security for people as I especially dislike how the “fake Christian” argument goes as it either makes people insecure in their faith, or requires them to look at themselves instead of Christ for faith. Again I love my Christian brothers dearly whom disagree with this, peace and In Christ we all must be in this broken world
@@trustchristnotmyselfextran6298 late late response here. You want to know what to do? Look to Christ. Pray for wisdom and discernment so that all of us Christian’s can be United. Just the fact that you’re asking this question means you want to know. Pray about it. Ask for the gifts that you know God is offering you and mean it (with faith) and it’s a done deal. And then use it. I believe from your one comment you are saved but you’re afraid of backsliding. Stay in the word and talk to God and ask for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as he offered it to us! Another gift! Take it. He love you and wants you and all Christians to have the gift of pointing people to Christ in one way or another. You have faith brother? Take it. Never worry and never live in fear. God is with you.
This guy is very wrong, I could argue, but I will just say a few things. One, the true regenerate soul is made a new creature in Christ. Christ will not lose one sheep. John says we have been given power to become the sons of God, and I will add daughters because there is neither male nor female says the Scripture, all are one in Christ. But in John, it says that the true Christian cannot sin, because His Seed (Christ) remains in us and we cannot sin. We do sin in our flesh but not in our soul. Our soul has the Covering of the Blood of Christ. There is no sin that the Blood doesn't wash away. This is all Truth from Scripture. We, as true worshippers, cannot lose what God has given us, because it is a change, a complete change in us, we have been made new. We have the seal of the Holy Spirit. Don't listen to man's thought on this. Search the Scripture and pray that God will show you the Truth of it.
Again I disagree w all this "you can walk away fm ...Christ... " or " that you can forfeit ya salvation..." Ha ha ..ol Mr Lot gave it his best shot...yet God,s word....NOT..Luther or any other....man..declares Mr Lot...." JUST.." (V7) & " RIGHTEOUS..." (V8).. in 2Pet.2"7-9.... who vexed his righteous sole fm...day to day....aka...??? the guy was MISERABLY....saved..,& living in a landfill to....boot....!!!! well their goes ya Lordship...salvation...also...wasn't exactly " making Christ Lord & Master of his miserable life style...." huh????? so ya can forget all that " forfeit..." & " walk away...." bs
Are you the same one who bashed every Christian artist because they can't live up to your standards? I don't agree with a most artists. We will know them by their fruit.
From a Lutheran...approach/perspective...???? really....!!!! did the writings of Luther...somehow become inspired...??? or somehow become " Final Authority..."????? well put this in ya " perspective/ approach...1Cor.11:1; Col.2:8;Psm.118:7,8... Eph.1:13,14 tells us we are SEALED w/ the Holy Spirit of Promise....&_Eph 4:30 tells how long we are,....SEALED...until the day of Redemption...!!!! so if ya mot in heaven...ya still...SEALED...still a child of God...still saved...so what's been lost...??? how did ya lose it...???? & how do ya plan on getting it back???? if ya overnight begin w/ you guys are always citing Dead men...try citing the Living Word fm...the Living Saviour...via the Holy Spirit....who,s more alive than u or I...
I'd like to make a slightly different point which is that the conditional Scripture passages you refer to don't imply that one has the capacity to fall away from faith by the free exercise of our will. They're merely observations that one will only be saved if one remains in the faith. Luther made the point that our will isn't free to choose either to believe or disbelieve and that it's like a beast of burden between two riders (God and Satan). If God rides us we go where God wills and if Satan rides us we go where Satan wills, and nor says Luther, can we choose who will ride us because it is the riders themselves who contend with each other as to who will take possession of us. Ultimately of course God is in control and therefore whether we're saved or damned has already been predetermined. So if people fall from the faith and are damned that is due to predestination not due to human free will. So whilst I agree that "once saved always saved" isn't Biblical, I don't agree with the Lutheran teaching that the act of falling away isn't predetermined by God. My conviction is that Luther was correct and the Formula of Concord wrong on this.
+Edward -- I can't fully tell from your post if you're in the Lutheran camp or not (my impression is that you are not but if you are my apology) but you might want to check out this article. *_"Why Lutheran Predestination Isn't Calvinist Predestination"_* by *Mathew Block* from _First Things_ www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/10/why-lutheran-predestination-isnt-calvinist-predestination
resurrectionjose I've previously read Mathew Block’s article and commented on it in the comments below it. But briefly I don't agree with his argument that Luther didn't endorse predestination to hell. There's nothing in Luther’s commentary on Genesis that actually supports this. It's plain that we can't know whether we're saved (and therefore conclude we're predestined to be saved) except through our faith in Christ since He is the only access to God that we have, but this doesn't rule out predestination to hell which Luther most certainly defends in The Bondage of the Will, and which he supports when he says in his Genesis commentary “I have written that everything is absolute and unavoidable”. Also there's a misunderstanding in Lutheran circles that Luther was opposed to reason and logic particularly with reference to predestination and that he was in agreement with the Formula of Concord on this. However this is completely mistaken. Luther only opposed reason when it sought to make a value judgement on the truthfulness of Scripture, however he defended to the utmost the use of reason when arguing from Scriptural premises. Therefore we find him making the following summary of his position in The Bondage of the Will which confirms he held predestination to both heaven and hell: “For if we believe it to be true that God foreknows and predestines all things, that he can neither be mistaken in his foreknowledge nor hindered in his predestination, and that nothing takes place but as he wills it (as reason itself is forced to admit), then on the testimony of reason itself there can't be any free choice in man or angel or any creature”. (page 293, Luther's Works, Vol 33) By the way in my eyes I’m a Lutheran since I agree with Luther and support the teachings of the Book of Concord that were in existence during Luther's lifetime. However since Lutheranism since 1580 has been defined by acceptance of the Formula of Concord’s teaching on predestination, which I hold is in error (and which Luther wouldn't have agreed with), I don't refer to myself as a Lutheran.
+Edward -- Luckily while coming back here and re-reading the entirety of your post after digging around one of my external hard drives (it's normally hooked up to my laptop computer) for the titles of one or two books as well as looking up some stuff online, I noticed that I might have been a bit hasty or simply misread the second paragraph in your previous post. (Further below I'm going ahead and mention what I presumed at first and cite the title and accompanying link to Amazon.) The one thing I should have done but didn't bother to do because it might have been way too time-consuming is looking for a quotation in some book I have on former fundamentalist Christians ("Leaving The Fold..." by Edward Babinski) whereby the author either insinuates that Luther held to "double predestination" or directly quotes him by actually citing from one of his works. What I recall is something about the *_"acme of faith"_* and will probably look it up another time during the upcoming morning or afternoon. I also don't want to be rummaging around one of my bookshelves in another part of the house and near a family member who is sound asleep. :) All that being said, I think you're most probably right about Luther holding to *and* perhaps early on teaching "double predestination" while Lutheranism in general and many Lutherans in particular say otherwise. That article by Mathew Block is a case in point. I never bothered to read the comments section of his article which ironically enough is something I normally do since comments/posts by readers tend to be more interesting and enlightening than the article(s) themselves. I spotted your comment but won't be elaborating on it here. I will end with the following and touch upon what you said in the second paragraph. *_"Also there's a misunderstanding in Lutheran circles that Luther was opposed to reason and logic..."_* Even though I didn't go any further and cite the rest of what you said, on the whole you are correct. I had to also look around one of my other folders (simply entitled "Lutheranism") where I have 80+ eBooks and journal articles specifically on Martin Luther and Lutheranism. I'll assume you're familiar with the following book that I cited further below. I also took the liberty of citing the Baptist minister and theologian, Roger E. Olson, who had written a blog article showcasing that Luther did indeed hold to "double predestination." Lastly, even if Luther never uttered the same type of statements he did in earlier years I believe the usual criticisms against Calvinism (re: TULIP) or even a modified form of it (e.g., emphasis on 'T' and 'P' while giving short shrift to 'U', 'L', and 'I') can just as well be leveled at him. "Double predestination" no matter how it's sliced boils down to one group being chosen for eternal life (i.e., the Elect) and another group predestined to eternal perdition (i.e., the non-Elect). Mr. Olson in a few of his books on Arminianism (that includes one or two arguing *against* Calvinism) in my view does a splendid job of showing up a number of faulty lines of theological reasoning within Calvinist thought. About the one area that I think he *might* be waffling on is Romans 9 when he more or less quotes John Wesley: *_"It cannot mean, whatever it meant besides, that the God of truth is a liar....Let it mean what it will. It cannot mean that the Judge of all the world is unjust."_* Sounds great at first glance and I reckon eases one's troubled conscience as well as a good deal of cognitive dissonance regarding some "horrible decree" and God's love, but it seems to avoid the text itself and the necessary exegetical work needed in order to determine what that part of Romans (or more to the point chapters 9-11) means and not what we wish it to mean for the sake of squaring things away with some cherished or deeply held doctrine. (I'm trying to find a dissertation online that I have on hand that has since been published in a prestigious monograph series, 'Library of New Testament Studies', and will presume it's either not freely available anymore or I just haven't looked well enough. For the heck of it I will cite the title way at the end and attempt to find it another time. It part one of a trilogy on the entirety of Romans 9, and from an Arminian persuasion.) *_"The Devil's Whore. Reason and Philosophy in the Lutheran Tradition"_* (2011) edited by *Jennifer H. Dragseth* www.amazon.com/Devils-Whore-Philosophy-Lutheran-Tradition/dp/0800698509/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1517473976&sr=8-2&keywords=%27%27The+Devil%27s+Whore.+Reason+and+Philosophy+in+the+Lutheran+Tradition%27%27 *_"Luther and 'Double Predestination'"_* by *Roger E. Olson* www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/04/luther-and-double-predestination/ *_"Arminian Principles for Interpreting Romans 9."_* wesleyanarminian.wordpress.com/category/romans-9/ Brian J. Abasciano *_"Paul’s Use of the Old Testament in Romans 9.1-9. An Intertextual & Theological Exegesis"_* [LNTS] (2004)
resurrectionjose I clicked on your link to the article "Arminian Principles for Interpreting Romans 9" but I don't agree with the argument presented. Romans 9 is about individual predestination. One has to indulge in contorted arguments to arrive at the conclusion that Paul isn't discussing divine predestination to heaven and hell. Luther in "The Bondage of the Will", before presenting Scriptural proof for predestination, argues from the premise that God is omnipotent and omniscient and that God's foreknowledge can't be invalidated, that everything is predestined by God to happen. He argues that God's foreknowledge imposes necessity on everything happening exactly as He has foreknown it will, which means there's no human free will to do anything different. Luther's main emphasis was of course to refute free will in reply to Erasmus but in doing so he argued, totally convincingly, that everything is predestined by God to happen which he then proved from Scripture, in particular Romans 9. In addressing the point that God can't do anything which would seem to us to be unloving and unjust Luther makes the argument that we shouldn't judge God as if He was human as God's justice is above our understanding, and we'll only understand it in the next life when we see that He's perfectly just. (pages 289-293, Luther's Works, Vol 33).
Not a Calvinist, but God's work speaks for itself. God said he will complete the good work in you that he started. I am not gonna argue with God. We are not saved or justified by our works. Jesus is our mediator in heaven. The holy spirit changed us into a new creation. Period.
What about those Christians who continue to have faith, prayers and church, but lives in sin...cohabitation, adultery, abortion, etc....They have faith but live in sin, are they saved?.. what does to continue in faith even means?
Luther taught Faith Alone for salvation. So without faith neither child baptism nor adult baptism whether it's sprinkling or immersion can save a person.
When I hear "lose your salvation" I dont think of it being taken from me etc. I think of it as walking away or apostasy. Hence all of the constant talk of " holding till the end" , " abiding in the vine" , "Persevere till the end" etc. etc.
No one can abide by their own willpower
Only by the Holy Spirit can ANYONE abide or endure...
@@tomtemple69I deed the operation of the Holy Spirit through the Gospel - called:
"The hearing of faith"
(Galatians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 1 Peter 1:5)
Excellent. No better way to put it. As Dr. Michael Brown puts it "you can't lose your salvation...but you can forfeit it."
And I think that language works better with the entirety of the Old Testament.
@@divinityofblackness6330Absolutely. Consider the wording of Ezekiel 33:13. Romans 8:13 reflects essentially a parallel of that verse.
@bairfreedom
anyone believing they can "walk away".. or "apostate".. themselves... does NOT believe in what Calvinism teaches..
those who have been called by God unto salvation.. have received the "irresistible call of the Spirit"
this call of the Spirit does Not get directed by God... to someone.. and draws them to God.. Only to allow them to by their own will.. walk away from what God has called them to ... at any point in the future..
God does not treat us like yo-yo's on strings.. or even like a kite on a string.. where we can go flying away from Him...
any who have received the call of the Spirit..in other words... called by God.. are His for keeps..
as a Calvinist... I DO believe.. that God has chosen to harden some hearts as he did with the Pharaoh's of Moses day... for reasons known ONLY to Him... but.. these hearts will reject the call from the beginning.... hence blaspheming the spirt... Matthew 12:31-32....these will Not be saved at all..
therefore doomed to the unpardonable sin...
I do not believe one can "un-save" themselves.. nor will God withdraw His salvation for ones He has chosen... this would be saying that God makes mistakes..
He doesn't..
It seems to me that many of the Christian traditions attempting to grapple with the issue of salvation and election are divided because they see it from different vantage points. Because Reformed Christians take seriously God's sovereignty, they attempt to look at it from God's perspective, by which they conclude that God will save those whom he will save. Those who fall away were never elect to begin with. This is what God sees.
On the other hand, from a human perspective it certainly appears that those who once claimed to be saved have indeed lost their salvation. Hence the warnings in Scripture. Arminians and Lutherans take these passages seriously, with the former assuming that we must co-operate with God's "prevenient grace" and the latter taking more of a paradoxical approach yet affirming ultimately that our salvation comes from God alone.
North American evangelicals, i.e., the heirs of the 18th- and 19th-century awakenings and revivals, start out as Arminians but try to end up as Calvinists. That is, they believe that once one has "accepted Jesus Christ as personal saviour," one is in the fold and nothing he does afterwards will take him out of the fold. Hence the carnal Christians that we hear about in these circles. This is a serious deformation of the Reformation.
I myself am Reformed, but I would take issue with those in our churches, especially young people, who believe they can drink to excess and live more or less as they like because they are already "in." That is a presumptuous approach to God's grace that fails to take seriously the need for sanctification.
Thanks for the video. Very interesting.
I just want to respond to your comment where you said, "...Reformed Christians take seriously God's sovereignty,...". All due respect, and I mean that sincerely... I see Calvinists make this false claim all the time. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the non-Calvinists, if not all of the one's I know do indeed take God's "sovereignty" serious. I've studied the subject of the varying views of soteriology for quite a few years and what I see is a mistake made by Calvinists where they define "sovereignty" in an idiosyncratic way. If Calvinists would correctly define sovereignty it would cause them to put aside a bias they have based on a false presupposition of God's sovereignty.
I would agree with you. Some people misunderstand Soverign grace and replace it with a sloppy grace.
PAUL'S WORDS do read and take serious. Because your reasoning is FULL of the creeds and traditions of men and we must discern absolute from relative arguments. This one is an absolute one and not subject to relativism or further context.
Romans 8:38
"38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow-not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below-indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord."
If indeed" nothing in all of creation will ever be able to seperate us from the love of God "then we as Christians cannot fall away even when we try.
I don't care for opinions and am merely here to call out such heresy. I say this as one who has witnessed EL ELYON on his throne, of whom I did not know of and who's face I could not see on the throne, until I was "sanctified" on his right hand side. Not by my works, but by his decree "that [I] might believe" and never can fall away despite wrestling with God and my faith in him.
Sanctification is nothing you yourself do. Our actions are merely the affirmation of such heavenly decrees. But once saved, we are never in no wise - panteles - able to lose salvation. Period.
Because He knew squabbles of this nature would come up, Jesus in His wisdom did not leave us orphans----He established the Catholic Church and gave it infallible teaching authority.
Our Holy Mother the Catholic Church teaches that salvation (the "state of grace ") can be forfeited, and all it takes is one mortal sin. The Church further teaches that the state of grace can be re-gained by a sincere repentance and good Confession .
@@a-sheepof-christ9027 Nothing will separate us from God's love. God loves saints and sinners alike. If we sin and break from Him, we lose our salvation (we lose the state of grace) but He still loves. God punished Adam and Eve but He still punished them.
God even loves the souls in Hell. The fire they experience is only the fire of His love, experienced by the souls in Hell as painful because they do lot love God back. They will stay in Hell forever but God still loves them.
So "nothing can separate us from God's love" does not mean once-saved-always-saved.
Once-saved-always-saved is a license to sin.
I am a a reformed guy... But I love these videos. I appreciate you *brother.* You challenge me... and that's always a good thing. God bless you friend!
Reformed theology is false doctrine
God bless you!
As long as you're being honest and seeking the scripture and not a theologian like White or Durbin to explain it away in textual criticism or Calvinistic doctrine rather than just God's word then you'll be okay.
@@Livelife95ify are you saying that the entirety of reformed theology is false?
If so then that would mean that you are saying that the diety of Christ is false, salvation by faith through grace (alone) is false, etc... do you believe those things are false?
@@BibleLovingLutheran would you agree that the same thing applies to non calvinists?
As a Presbyterian I struggled with these text, as a Lutheran I have peace. Scripture alone! Peace
Scripture alone but your church follows tradition?
I would suggest you have studied more but glad you have peace no matter what. The Scriptures scream to us that God PRESERVES His people. The "if" passages aren't prescriptive. Prove it to me from the Greek. They are DESCRIPTIVE. Showing what the true Christians will do. Perseverance of the Saints. The warning passages are not hypothetical. Apostasy is real...but again not for the born again child of God.
As a Lutheran, I struggled with these texts. Now, as a Presbyterian, I have peace.
There are many passages that suggest that salvation can never be lost or forfeited and there are many passages that suggest that salvation can indeed be lost or forfeited. That is why the Protestant notion that every believer can interpret the Scripture for himself is totally wrong. We need the infallible teaching authority of our Holy Mother the Catholic Church, sometimes called the magisterium.
Our Holy Mother the Catholic Church teaches that the state of grace can indeed be forfeited (Dr. Cooper is quite correct to say that "forfeited" is a better word here than "lost") and all it takes is one mortal sin. The state of grace can be regained by a sincere repentance and good Confession.
@@honeybee-k9z The Confessional Lutheran church preaches Jesus Christ and Him crucified and that alone is our Peace.
You speak against things you do not understand.
Thank you for making these videos! I have been Christian (Lutheran) all my life and it is always comforting to hear the Truth (even when it hurts, it heals). Thanks be to God!
Peace.
Do you agree with this video? If so, why?
I agree. We don't lose God. God will never let his people go. God will never take your salvation away. But we can definitely reject what has been freely given to us. Who in their right mind would ever want to do such a thing? Not me!
I left the faith as a confused teenager and came back as an adult. Does the verse in Hebrews mean I still have no hope of salvation?
It appears to me, that Lutherans are speaking out of both sides of their mouth on this issue. " You can fall away, but don't worry, God preserves his people". Well...which is it? If I fall away, then i was never his, or he would have preserved me.
That is why the orthodox Christian belief from the apostles is endure to the end. We must abide in Christ or else we are cut off the vine.
@@FrMoody I've read several Palamist sermons insisting on "I'm being saved," and Lutherans would not deny it. But what do you so with the broader morphology of "save" in the NT? It certainly says we are being saved, but it also says "He saved us...by the washing of rebirth and renewal of the Holy Spirit," and "By grace you have been saved."
biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4982.htm
I don't know how Dr. Cooper feels but his hero Martin Luther taught that only the loss of faith resulted in the loss of salvation, that no believer loses salvation by committing sin. "If anyone should still believe in the stupid ten commandments let him chase himself to the Jews," Luther said.
You are begging the question. You assume because we are saved then God would not let us fall away. But this does nothing to address the very real possibility of turning away and resisting his grace. Falling away does not mean we were never his it means we rejected him.
It seems to be a paradox where it’s both and something the ancient world understood, while the West we do not. We want answers and assurances.
This is the best biblical explanation that I have heard about walking away from the faith and YES because you have a free will you can lose your salvation
"And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given me, but raise it up on the last day"
John 6:39
There exists a will of desire. It’s also His will that all people are saved (1 Tim 4:10).
1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." People that leave the faith, stop abiding in it, fall away or whatever way you want to state it....were never truly saved....or they would not have left.
The passage you cite has nothing to do with a question of perseverance or the assertion of once saved always saved. John is warning against false prophets, antichrists, liars, deceivers, etc.
I scratched my head on this but unlocked the Lutheran DaVinci Code if you will. In Lutheranism you can have real true regenerate "Christians"...all Baptized barbies!!!! So...because the Sacramental efficacy is of main focus always you must be able to account for those who "fall away" after having received true efficacious grace in the water of Baptism. Once you get past this you see Lutherans squirming whenever Calvin is mentioned (sad because Calvin admired Luther unto death) but at the CORE soteriology....and I mean the CORE...there is no difference. What about universal grace? Same answer. You need universal grace to subsidize the efficacy of infant Baptismal regeneration and you must have true apostates as an excuse to handle when one of the Non Elect falls away (yet they truly were BAPTIZED). So...the reason I say that at the CORE. ...the Sola Fide Monergistic CORE is the same is because Lutheran Theology teaches that the ELECT OF GOD shall NEVER perish ..... im good with that. The Apostates they speak of are visible church stragglers...covenant fallouts. Similar to Federal Vision in the sense that there are the Covenantally Elect (Baptized) and then there are the Decretally Elect (regenerated). We have a similar stance in Presbyterianism with the visible and invisible church we just never teach that A regenerated heart can become unregenerated...its a difference in our language and that for the reasons stated above the Lutherans claim that real born again Christians can be lost but never the Elect. We teach that ONLY the Elect are Born Again.
Shalom.
Marcus Williams
no it’s not. They were with us, which means that they were thought to be Christians, but their leaving showed that they weren’t.
@@itslitgamestv6827 Incorrect. That text is talking about Antichrists. It explains who the “they” are and what the “they” were doing. The “they” were Antichrists and they were outright denying that Jesus is the Christ.
Now, however, since you have come to know [the true] God [through personal experience], or rather to be known by God, how is it that you are turning back again to the weak and worthless elemental principles [of religions and philosophies], to which you want to be enslaved all over again?
Galatians 4:9
God has given us a choice.. if we are willing to continue with God he will sustain us.. just like we were willing to be saved while he is the one who saves us..
If a person wants to return to deceptive teachings and fall away it's their choice.. and God will not stop because we are humans.. not robots!
Another subject, that I will say I simply disagree with your opinion.
If it's left up to me to persevere in the maintenance of faith, I am doomed to failure. I've ever been able to consistently do what I'm supposed to do, or ought to do, or need to do. In fact, the more I try, the more I seem to rebel. I have zero trust in myself. The miracle for me is the fact that when I finally threw in the towel and gave it all to God, I began to do the right things without even having to try very hard. I don't think I chose God....I think that He chose me, and in order to persevere in faith, I have to believe that He's got a plan, and it WILL be completed! If that makes me a Calvinist, then so be it. Blessings to all.
You might be interested to hear this: ruclips.net/video/KOlT3bOI0Kw/видео.html
We Roman Catholics believe so. A true Christian can lose his faith, loose his state of grace, and if he dies without repentance, he will condemn himself forever. You have made some very good points about that here.
I'm a new sub. I really like your content and am currently attending a WELS Lutheran church here in Wisconsin. I love it there.
Even Nicodemus understood that a person could not enter again into their mother’s womb so as to be born a second time. But in this is something essential to recognize… just as a person cannot enter back into the womb in order to be reborn, so a person cannot become unborn. A person cannot become unborn of the Spirit and work to undo the work of God. For what God has joined together let no man tear apart. In Him we have become joined in union with God. We have been born of God. We have been made a new creation.
They are talking about animal sacrifice they was trying to go back to animal sacrifice and Paul was telling in Jesus Christ his only sacrifice will save you
??????
What ? What ? What ?
Don't you know that Hebrews is written to all Christians?
Read Chapter 1:1, 2
Read Chapter 2:3, 4
Read Chapter 12:22-25
GOD has spoken to US by His SON in fulfillment of
Deuteronomy 18:15-19 / Acts 2:33
If you read John's Gospel
(eg 14:23, 24) you will find the Lord reiterating this theme and it's found in Luke also (Luke 10:16)
But as to "walking away from grace",
That is made abundantly clear in Hebrews 3:12.
Indeed Hebrews 3:14 uses the perfect tense to say we are become (Riight now)
PARTAKERS OF CHRIST,
And yet the inspired author uses the conditional clause in tandem with his statement:
"IF hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end"
This is no different to the warning the Lord gave us:
"He that endures to the end shall be saved"
1 Corinthians 15:1 - Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians 15:3 - For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 - And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Acts 16:30 - And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be Saved?
Acts 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy House.
John 6:47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that BELIEVETH on me Hath EVERLASTING LIFE. Do you believe God is a liar? John 6:40. John 10:28-29. Do you believe you can save yourself? Then you have made the cross of no effect and BELEIVE Jesus died in vain. Galatians 2:21. Do you believe the GIFT of God is eternal life? Romans 6:23. Second Timothy 2:13. Once we believe on Jesus alone, apart from any works, (Romans 4:5) we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13-14 And Ephesians 4:30. Gods word. John 3:18 Believers can no longer be condemned.
First John 5:13. How do we know we have eternal life? God said so. God cannot lie. Since the gift of God is eternal life, and Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, First John 2:2, Then it is up to us to believe it to be saved forever. Hebrews 13:5. John 3:16. Jesus said it, we believe it, and that settles it. John 5:24
I love Baptists both the Soutuer Baotist variety and of the Non Denom variety but bro--youre embarrassing yourself
Romans 6:23. The GIFT of God is eternal life. Second Corinthians 9:13. Thanks be to God for His UNSPEAKABLE GIFT. Once we accept the GIFT, we have eternal life. If we could lose it, it would not be eternal life. John 5:24. John 6:40. John 10:28-29. Hebrews 13:5.
The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. Romans 1:16. Ephesians 1:13-14. Our guarantee of eternal life. Ephesians 4:30. Sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.
We can be chastened by the Lord, Colossians 3:5-6, and we can lose the rewards we could have had in heaven, First Corinthians 3:11-15, But not eternal life.
First John 5:13. These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
Disclaimer. I am not a Calvinist, nor am I an Arminian, just a bible believer. John 3:18 Everyone is either one or the other. Has believed and has eternal life, or has not believed and does not have eternal life. The simplicity of the gospel. Acts 16:31.
I respectfully disagree with your teaching and please expound these verses for me please;
John10:28-29; 1John5:13; Romans5:1 ; Romans 8:30 and many more verses that contradicts your teaching.
Yes, I agree. They can walk away, cease having believing loyalty and love toward God.
I myself believe that the High Priestley Prayer of the Lord Jesus in John 17 will be infallibly be answered and come to pass!
I guess no one is going to answer how there are many Christians who do return to faith and true repentance after falling away from Christ for years. Either they have not committed the sin of irrevocable apostasy or is there a possibility we're reading Hebrews 6:4-6 wrong?
Thank you so much! I've struggled with the book of Rev where it says we can be taken out of the Book of Life and knew in my heart we can stop believing.
Revelation says he will not blot us out of the book of life. Will not is the opposite of will. Duh!
@@gregorylatta8159 then you haven't read the Book of Rev, not only does it come with a promise, but says if you add or take away from "this book" your name will be blotted out from the Book of Life. BTW, never remembered Jesus saying "duh" to a believer so maybe change your funky attitude foolish one (He did call people fools so, I can say that). Have a great day
@@Shellyspurr Actually the original Greek says tree of life.
@@gregorylatta8159 Gen 21:27 "But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life." Greek will be different than English for sure, but just about every English Bible says book. Both are wood literally so, I can accept tree haha. This is interesting tho, id like to know more because the book of Gen says tree of life so, I would like to know more about how they're similar. Thank you for this incite
@@Shellyspurr The Lambs book of life is usually thought of as the list that was made before the foundation of the world of those predestined for salvation. There is much debate within Christianity about this and many issues such as OSAS and many many others. All I can say is no matter what anyone thinks I am going to trust Jesus alone for my salvation and I suggest others do the same.
Awesome assessment. I've been writing recently arguments againts OSAS and this is a helpful resource.
I don't feel a person who is truly saved CAN walk away or "forfeit"... their faith... to believe such a ridiculous idea... goes against EVERYTHING.. the fundamentals of Calvinist teaching teaches..
maybe if one does NOT believe that God is totally Sovereign over ALL of His creation.. one might believe this.. but believing as I do that God is in control of everything....we cannot rightfully think that God allows this to be possible...
God does not play games with human lives.. allowing people to live as saved Christians for a length of time.. and then at some point. .turn His back on them.. or rather just harden their hearts to the idea of that Christian having eternal life..
I really like your explanation of supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism....BUT honestly... in regards to one forfeiting their salvation... your Lutheran roots are showing..
I realize that as a Lutheran you perhaps did not receive a whole lot of teaching on Calvinism... I was raised a Catholic ,,, myself... and so the idea of "once saved.." was new to me since I was brought up believing.. assumption of salvation was the sin of presumption... a NO-NO.. let alone.. saved Once and for all..
apparently YOU do not believe once God has allowed one to be saved... it is a permanent DONE deal..
I believe there are a lot of Pseudo-Christians out there... ones who have convinced themselves by walking the walk and talking the talk that they ARE Christians... these will be the ones who will stand before Jesus one day and hear Him say,.. "depart from me... I never knew you"... but as far as those who God has called to salvation.. to believe one can reject their faith or forfeit it.. once they have received it... calls into question the sovereignty of God... as well as opening the door to the idea of God capable of making a mistake...
God does Not make mistakes.. he doesn't allow any to be saved so they can "forfeit".. their salvation later..
Enjoying your content, but have to disagree on this important topic.
So, God regenerates a sinner and makes him His son with forknowledge that they will be lost. What is the regeneration of the Spirit doing to a person? According to what you teach, such man can sin and lose faith and salvation.
Now. Your "if" verses are evidential, as are "plenty of others." Paul is saying, as James, that true faith has to be shown. He also is agreeing with Christ, who is saying how there are 4 types of faith. Only one is bringing forth fruits.
I have no problem with that it has appeared to have faith. Repentance is not automatically faith!
Btw. You are trying to say that salvation is not by works but then you say that losing the faith is persistence in unrepentant sin. Plus if we receiving sacraments??? If I take (a deed) sacrament? The only sacrament that saves is faith! Christ has baptised in Him all those who believe, including the poor soul on the cross right from him.
Warning passages is for people to see if they have true or false faith, not that they lose genuine faith.
There will be no sons of God in Hell.
Thanks Pastor for walking the razors edge of the Word of God. I stuggled with this doctrine as God brought me out of Calvinism by His word alone. God's peace be with you.
THIS IS THE ONE YOU NEED ruclips.net/video/i3ouCJ5hvBo/видео.html
Still Lutheran? :)
@@JoojieXD yes indeed
I think of one falls away, the better way to describe it in my opinion is they never had a Christ-centered foundation of faith, as shown in the parable of the sower. Those who have a Christ-centered foundation of faith, will never fall away.
Today nobody wants conditions or requirements. They all want the Joseph Prince "greasy grace" message....JESUS said, "My FATHER loves those who obey HIM❤
Just curious, do Lutherans believe the Lord Jesus Christ is a liar? The reason I ask is that Jesus said in the well-known passage in John 10:28-29, "And I give them (My sheep) eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand." If someone can walk away (snatch themselves away) from salvation (from being one of the Lord's sheep), then...."eternal life" doesn't actually mean "eternal life" and "never perish" dosen't actually mean "never perish." Therefore, Jesus would clearly be a liar. BTW, "never perish" is in a Greek construction that means "perishing" is not even in the realm of potentiality. IOW, Jesus says that it's not even potentially possible that one of His sheep can EVER perish. Earthly example - it's not even potentially possible for a hummingbird to swoop down and carry off a elephant. The same potentiality goes for anyone who is one of the Lord's sheep - it's not possible, end of discussion, for them to perish and miss out on eternal life....unless Jesus lied. Just my two cents.....
The matter of Hymenaeus and Alexander puzzles me. The purpose of handing them over to Satan is that they might learn something (in their case, not to blaspheme). Why seek to teach someone who is gone for good to repent unless shipwreck is not quite as final as it sounds?
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare”what He had previously declared.
A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13-14)
PERSEVERE OVERCOME
ENDURE to the end.
FIGHT the good fight!
HOLD ON on to the faith.
More than 80 warnings in the New Testament about falling away.
The bottom line is, we have FREE WILL & GOD doesn't Force HIS will upon us❤
“Can you thirst again after drinking the water that makes you never thirst”(John 4) Durp
Thank you for an honest treatment of the idea! Finally! My very real dilemma is thus: I see that "there remains no repentance" in Hebrews 6:4-6, but I also see that this passage comes after 3 exhortations of "today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." If it is my desire to return to Him, is it possible I only *thought* I fell away, or is it possible I'm being deceived into thinking I merely want to repent?
Regardless- thank you for handling this idea in a way that finally feels like someone is being honest with the text and not playing semantic games.
Peace. Do you agree with this video?
Watch Chuck Missler Eternal Security. It will clear up everything
If you even have the desire to repent and recognize you need to, Hebrews 6 is not speaking to you
Have you had some resolution on this issue? How are you thinking about it today?
I like these videos but I think he missed the calvanist perspective here. The idea isnt that cooperation is not explicitly laid out in scripture alongside faith. Any calvanist worth their salt will agree all day long with that. The issue is this ever present idea that along with personal cooperation, God still simultaneously maintains control over his elect.
If you look to the trinity, does God being 3 persons work within our understanding? Or do we fundamentally believe it because is shown to be true in scripture? Calvanism works the same way.
"true" christian, "good" christian, "real" christian...one might just as well ask "Can the 'real' Jesus save to the uttermost?" Only He who is the Christ of God does, and only He who is the Christ knows His own. Is it enough...that Christ knows? And knows His own? If not, what would be "enough"?
What if a person living in unrepentant sin, maintains their faith, because they don't believe what their doing is a sin?
That would be calling God a liar and not maintaining faith/trust in God, His Word and Work.
We call it a seared conscience, the remedy is the hammer of God, and private honest confession and Absolution.
But how do we know if we've lost our salvation?? What categorize wilful sin? Are we talking about someone who struggle consistently but feels convicted of sin or someone who doesn't care and reject Christ completely after experiencing difficult situations? Are we talking about someone who walks away from community because of church hurt or abuse but ends up coming back because they feel called to repentance? This is a very confusing and terrifying, could you expend on the characteristics of those who did?
he fails to quote the Scriptures which go beyond, "having" to endure/persevere, to actually DOING so, and doing so, "unto the end"; such as Heb. 3:14 that guaranteee the "final perseverance" of God's saints.....this passage remains an impenetrable "bull-wark" against these "loss-of-salvation" peddlars.....
"though we thus speak." (i.e. what they have just said)
"things that accompany salvation, " (i.e. Beloved of God, these things DO NOT accompany Salvation, and therefore DO NOT apply to you )
Hebrews 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Only born-again Christians are going in the rapture. To be born-again is to be filled with the Holy Spirit. (This is not an intellectual experience.) When the Holy Spirit fills you; you will know that Jesus is as real as you are; He is a spirit of truth. There may only be 35 to 100 million born-again Christians worldwide (I won’t lay out the calculation here). If children under the age of accountability go in the rapture, then number will be way higher; I don’t have a good answer to that question, yes or no. There will be a “shout and a last trump,” but only the born again will hear it and be taken. As for the “folded clothes,” that’s Hollywood-we don’t know or care. And the Hollywood “2 billion” rapture number means anyone who ever checked a box on a pole question makes them a Christian-nonsense. The rapture is God taking His Holy Spirit out of this world, prior to his judgment (tribulation). Personally, I believe many people will be born again during the tribulation; this is the church remnant that wouldn’t listen until now, but they will still endure the antichrist here. The eucharist and all it entails, may be the issue holding back millions from the truth. God Bless you, Dr. Cooper
OS;AS which some Baptist's teach is SO ridiculous I don't know where to begin. It literally is say the sinners prayer, apostatize straight afterwards and live a degradedly sinful life until death and still go to heaven.
The Reformed position is more defensible but I think still falls down under scrutiny
Jordan B Cooper...if I become Lutheran I am blaming you 🤣
I’m not Lutheran but the theology seems so biblically balanced.
As a non-Calvinist Baptist working out my own understandings of the issue, you really had me agreeing with you all the way through until you said "sacraments," there at the end. Yes, the Bible says pretty clearly that you can cast off your saving faith, and it also says pretty clearly that anyone who keeps their faith intact has iron-clad assurance, but the Bible says 0 about that assurance being based in any part on regularly receiving sacraments. It is faith alone. We can say that faith is our "part" of the salvation process only because it is not a work or an action by which we receive credit. The Bible uses "faith" and "works" in contra-distinction. However, if keeping the faith, and thus salvation, requires any works (which sacraments blatantly are), then the sacraments are what ensure salvation. It is not God ensuring our salvation by giving us the faith we need to assent in trust, but us ensuring our salvation by maintaining our faith through pious activity.
Lutherans baptize comatose family members if there's any evidence they are believers and wanted to be baptized eventually. Lutherans baptize the quadriplegic. And Lutherans baptize babies. I never seen no baby do no work.
If we define "works" as "anything physical that ever occurs", of course the sacraments are works. But by this definition, the death and resurrection of Christ is a work, and we know we are saved by the death and resurrection of Christ. So the definition of "work" in this context must be "anything physical of man's doing" (as opposed to God's doing). Your argument then rests on a presupposition that the sacraments (baptism and communion) are works of man. The orthodox Lutheran understanding is that these are absolutely not works of man, but works of God. If a dirty dish is washed clean, it is not the dish which worked itself clean, but the washer of the dish who did the work. So it is in baptism, where it is not the water which purifies, but the "washing of the water with the Word" (Eph 5:26). Further, we know God does use physical things to accomplish His will. We are physical bodies, and will be reunited with our physical bodies in the last day. We place our trust in the physical blood of Jesus on a physical cross at a precise time and location in history, and His physical resurrection. The sick woman who touched Jesus' garment in Luke 8 was made well by faith, at the moment she touched Jesus' physical robe. A few seconds before she touched His robe, she had faith that once she touched His robe, she would be healed. But she was not healed until physically touching his physical robe. The sacraments of baptism and communion were instituted by Christ Himself and are not ours to do away with.
If the Bible said "pat yourself on top of your head five times and you will be saved" we would all take it at face value. But when St Paul says in Acts 22:16, "Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins", we say we don't need baptism to wash away our sins. And when St Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21 that "baptism now saves you", we say no it doesn't. And when Christ Himself says in Matthew 26 that "This [the wine] is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins", we say it's not actually His blood and it doesn't actually work forgiveness of sins. Faith alone saves, and we must have faith that His Word and the blessed sacraments will deliver what He has promised!
"Once Saved, Always Saved" is NON-Biblical, not supported by the Bible... why?... St. Paul said, we must all be steadfast with our Faith in Christ and "RUN to the fullest" and must have the "intension" to finish the RACE, for the REWARD is at the "Finish Line" (the hour of our own final breath, comes death), and not along the way or in the middle of the race track...
Yes, it is true what Christ said, that what belongs to Him which the Father gave to Christ will not be taken away (snatch) from Christ's hands (John 10:28/paraphrased),... but humans have "Free Will" and weakness in flesh, from time to time human sin and some will do the unthinkable sin and died right away by accident without repentance... Christ said, that we must all keep our Clothes/Garments CLEAN at all times, for we never know the Day and the Hour the THIEF (Death) comes in our doorway... (Rev. 16:15/Matt. 24:42/2Peter 3:1-18 and more supported verses).
The "THIEF" symbolized "DEATH" and the "2ND COMING OF CHRIST," for nobody knows "the day and the hour" neither by the Son of God nor the Angels but the Father God alone knows...
The bible said, that God is the "GIVER and TAKER" of all His creation's "LIVES"... while Christ Jesus (Son of God) is the "Life Giver" only... Christ said, he who believes in me, and I in him will have the Eternal (Giving) Life... To God, be the Glory, Power, and Honor, in Christ Jesus name... Amen.
If you don't think people can fall away then you don't believe in people still sinning. The 99 vs 1 sheep always reminds me of how you were part of a flock but left and He came for me. Or Prodical son was part of the family. Left and came back. They all did repent and come home. But did they do more than others. They gave all in to sin nature and worlds culture if you look at the son. I struggle but Love God. Wish I was perfect but I am like filthy rags in my righteousness compared to what He wants us to be. Always can use prayer.
I grew up Lutheran and am excited to have found your channel. Concerning this issue, could you give your understanding how someone gets "saved" or receives salvation in the first place? Just to lay some foundation before we go to the Lutheran understanding of losing it or not.
You're not the first person who has asked this, so I will try and make it a priority to answer this in another video.
cool, And could you also tell me what type of Lutheran you are? I grew up in the ELCA church and I know there are different types. That might help with some understanding as well.
I am a pastor in the AALC. We are quite small. We were founded by the old ALC by churches who did not want to join the merger that became the ELCA, because we had some concern regarding their views on Scripture.
Also, you may find this video on the order of salvation helpful: ruclips.net/video/Ro3W2k26jZQ/видео.html
I watched this video and also looked up the AALC. I would say I find your beliefs more Biblical than what I have experienced with the ELCA. I don't believe all that you are saying and find it all a bit "religious". By that I mean traditions of man more than a relationship with God Himself. It seems that from your video I would agree on the basics of how one gets saved. I certainly don't hold to any teaching that says infants should be baptized or that it accomplishes anything in terms of that child's salvation. Salvation is a choice that we make to accept what Jesus did for us on the cross. A baby can't do that and the parents can't do that for them. However, I'll watch some more and listen to what you have to say. Maybe you can move from water baptism to the baptism of the Holy Spirit as it was in Acts. You do know that is still available to us today, right?!
Romans 10:9-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
nope..."loss-of-salvation" is first of all 1. totally refuted by such as 1 John 2:19; Heb. 3:14, which the whole "loss..." phalanx has never answered.... 2. "loss..." doctrine represents not only a total, "up-ending" of Scriptural doctrine, but also a total repudiation of Luther's basic "thoughts" re the gospel (i.e., the "hinge"); "loss" is a sad remnant, of the Romish/Eastern cults, one of the many that still reside in mainstream Lutheranism; thus, you "loss" peddlars affirm a "god" (?), who can only keep the trees of his garden, by threatening to "burn" them; a general, who can only keep his troops, under threat of "court-martial/execution"; your god, is a "King", who can only keep His subjects, via he threat of "banishment"; and (WORST OF ALL!!!) your "god", is a "father", who can only keep His children, via the threat of disownment!! AMAZING it is, that you Lutherans can hold "Bondage..." in one handm and hold to "loss..." on the other; but since you affirm "salvation-by-works" via your "baptismal regeneration" error, thus is no surprise.....if I thought your, "Christians can break God's saving hold, via sin" doctrine was true for 1 second, I would just go and take my chances, in the "Lake".....sad it is, when Christians become BLIND to what sin is; and NUMB, to what sin does......
Dr Jordan can you tell me your thoughts on Hebrews 6:4-6
Faith without works is dead. James 2 is all about works.
Every parable Jesus told was about different levels of servanthood. The luke warm are spewed out of his mouth.
Not producing good fruit is weeded and burnt.
Super insightful I'm being more convinced of Lutheranism every day
I appreciate your efforts and work. Thanks. I've used
some of your ideas and scriptural references on other channels.
I wish you well in life.
Unrepentant sin doesn't destroy faith. It destroys love. The one glaring error in Luther's theology stems from simple inexperience. Any Christian who has actually backslidden into long periods of unrepentant sin knows that it doesn't destroy their faith. They continue believing and trusting in Christ, they just want to keep sinning. This might boggle your mind, but millions of believers are living in prolonged unrepentant sin all around the world. There's nothing impossible about it. But they don't retain salvation in that, just because they believe. The demons believe. Nor does simply trusting that you are saved because of Christ's death guarantee it, for that too can be done while living in unrepentant sin. What you need is repentance, not just faith or trust, and only with repentance does faith become instrumental of salvation (ie, of love for God).
I hope so. They need to be freed from this kind of nonsense
It's just not adult.
If you think you're saved just by believing, when you stop believing the salvation goes.
That's the logical answer.
Some Christians believe that if a saved person enters into a sinful lifestyle and fails to repent then he will still get to heaven but will lose rewards. Their proof text is 1 Cor. 3:13-15 which say, “his work will be shown for what it is … the fire will test the quality of each man’s work … If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames”. Notice that these verses are referring to the testing of a man’s work, not sin.
If the passage in 1 Cor. 3-4 was talking about sin then it would be saying -
I) Those who build with good, golden sins will be rewarded.
II) Those who build with not so good, straw sins will lose their rewards.
Of course this is ridiculous. Whoever heard of building a church with sin or God rewarding someone for sin? In this article, I would like to show that these verses are not speaking about sin in the least but about how we work to build the church on the foundation of the gospel of Jesus.
Beginning with 1 Cor. 1:11- 13 and 1 Cor. 3:1-8, these verses tell us that the Corinthians were fighting about whether they should follow Paul, Apollos or Cephas. Paul said that their focus should be on Jesus because men are mere servants with assigned tasks; one man plants, another waters and each man will be rewarded according to his own labour. Next, in 1 Cor. 3:9-11, he continues on to say that we are God’s workers, His field and His building (His church) and that he, Paul, has laid a foundation as an expert builder and each of us must be careful how we build on that foundation, which is Jesus Christ.
Then 1 Cor. 3:12-15 talk about how we build the church and warn that fire will test the quality of each man’s work. The verses say that we can -
a) Build with gold, silver or costly stones and receive our reward or
b) Build with wood, hay or straw and, although we will still be saved, our work will be burned up.
Building with gold, silver or costly stones represent good leadership and sound doctrine while wood, hay and straw represent poor leadership and unsound doctrine. Sin is not in question here.
So far, Paul has spoken about building the church with either good or poor leadership and doctrine but now he continues on to speak about bad leadership and doctrine which destroys a church. 1 Cor. 3:16-17 say, “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you [plural] are that temple”. The term “God’s temple” is referring to the church, the body of Christ, and these verses say that God will destroy anyone who destroys His church (see 2 Pet. 2).
Then, from 1 Cor. 3:18, Paul continues on to further warn us not to follow men. In 1 Cor. 4:6 he sums up what he has said so far (from 1 Cor. 3:1) by saying that he has applied these things to himself and Apollos so that we could learn the meaning of the saying, “’Do not go beyond what is written.’ Then you will not take pride in one man over against another”. He is saying that the entire passage is to warn us not to follow men but to stay with what is written. In 1 Cor. 4:2 he said, “it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful”, and it is by not going beyond what is written that we remain faithful to that trust.
So we can see that this passage of scripture has nothing to do with sin. It is a warning for us not to follow men’s wisdom but to use the written Word to build on the foundation of Jesus because our rewards will be according to the way we build.
If we build with sound biblical doctrine then we will be rewarded.
If we build with poor doctrine then we will still be saved but lose our rewards.
If anyone destroys the church then he will be destroyed.
If we attempt to make sin the context of this passage then it will make no sense at all as words like build, labour and work don’t relate to sin. Likewise, sin can’t be related to building with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay and straw unless we say that we will be rewarded for good sins and lose our reward for bad sins. The fact is, sin is not the subject of this passage.
To make it a bit clearer, let’s consider a Christian who dies while refusing to repent of his adultery. Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) believers will say that he will still get to heaven but lose some rewards. This is entirely out of context with the passage in question as the man was not building on the foundation of Jesus while he was in adultery, he was just fulfilling his lusts. He wasn’t building the church while he remained in sin, he was just building his condemnation. The truth is, this passage is taken entirely out of context by OSAS believers. An unrepentant sinner will not suffer a loss of rewards for his sin but eternal condemnation.
Unsound doctrine is sin.
I’m trying to understand Protestant Christianity and It reminds me the Common Law (I’m an LLM): there are plenty of different ”churches” based on different literal interpretation of the scriptures. But in this way, Everyone can wake up and invent a new interpretation and therefore a new church. But what is the point in multiply churches? I think that this law/lawyer approach to Christ creates a lot of rules and tires but It does not answer to the existential questions of the people. Christians never had copies of the bible for the first 1.400 years... how could they be Christians without a book? I think that the main point of the Christianity is the event itself (god becomes a man); not the creation of another holy book. I prefer the catholic style because it’s more like civil law: one code to avoid endless discussion that make the message distant for the people. The first Christians were fisherman and sheppards, not intellectuals. Christ is love and love is simple. You don’t need to study to be in love; you just need to find someone. This is how humans works; this is how love work. The risk is too create a club for people interested in details. Sorry if I sounded offensive; it was not my intention. I just wanted to state my pony; I appreciate what you do; but maybe I’m too catholic for that...
In my own opinion, Catholicism resembles common law because of the development of doctrine, and the ongoing harmonization of multiple sources of authority (the consensus of bishops, the Patristic writings, the Scriptures, the councils, and private revelations such as Fatima) with the Papacy as the final court of appeal. Protestantism resembles civil law because of its insistence upon self-contained documents (compare the Book of Concord or the Westminster Confession to the Napoleonic Code, for instance).
Those people falling away from the faith at that time were probably never saved in the first place! A True believer IN Christ is not being referred to in that verse, but who were professors and couldn't fool God! They were fakers!!!
I don't like the phrase 'once saved always saved' I don't think you'll find phrasing in the bible to back that up I much prefer perseverance of the saints or preservation of the saints
A true Christian can not willfully depart in the sense that they fall away and just don't desire to return. The christian person has been changed forever. they have an undying love for God. But the idea is that a christian could get in trouble with god from unrepentant sin while fully being aware of it therefore having no excuse would then fall under gods judgment and become apostate, with a fearfull expectation of judgment. Wheather thats tru or not, i hope its not, but i no for shure a christian canot just altogether forget about there faith wich has become a part of them at new birth.
I don't agree with this at all. It seems that Luther did not teach this either. I think the misunderstanding lies with the doctrine of Regeneration, what it means to be Justified and sealed by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit as surety of Salvation. God is both the Author and Finisher of our faith and once one is sealed by the Holy Spirit, they are guaranteed an inheritance, as well as chastening and God working "in you, both to will and to act according to His good pleasure." "Christ in me, the hope of glory!" This teaching will boil down to Fideism and placing faith in one's own faith. Justification and regeneration are not a process. Sanctification is.
If one struggles with habitual sin like heresy, sectarianism, etc...Does that mean they have "lost their faith." If so, then all denominations have basically apostatized, since schisms were condemned in the Apostolic writings of the NT and Luther himself abhorred people using his name...
I have always understood salvation this way. this is one of the problems with Calvinist. Believing OSAS also leads to a flesh life rather than a spirit life.
Also the Bible is not a fortune cookie. Their are dispensations. The book of James is written to the 12 scattered tribes of Israel. Some Christians believe it is for the tribulation dispensation. Not everything in the Bible is to me but it is for me.
Ding diddy de ding de ding diddity ding. Pahm pa pa pahm pahm pahm. Meet Agent 007. He believes in once-saved-always-saved and he has a license to sin.
Pahm pa pa pahm pahm pahm!
I thought that all those who are justified will be glorified 🧐🧐
What about a saved person who genuinely loves and knows Christ but falls into a dry season for a period of time and becomes more apathetic about sin for a period of time.. but then comes back to repentance a while later. Is it too late for them?
A born again person can reject his faith.. God doesn't force his will on anyone.. but if your a person who genuinely follow God I don't think hel let you fall away. Hel bring a person back no matter how far he's gone.. but again his willingness wil matter.
If a person will fall away from faith to the point God will cut away him, he will never come back to faith - he is doomed as letter of hebrews undeniably stayed.
is watching these videos enough suffering to make it?
"Produce fruit in keeping with repentance."
It has to do with the holy Spirit initiating conviction and us not grieving the holy Spirit..... And this way it is the indwelling of the holy Spirit that draws us. But free will determines if we will listen to the conviction or if we will continuously walk in sin and rebellion.
God is omniscient and he knows who will come to him and run the race to the end from the foundation of the world.
If salvation is probationary, then how can it be salvation? Being born again is about being born into God’s family. Does God abandon his children?
No, we abandon him however. Calvin's theology came from augustine, who invented predestination as a desperate response to pelagius in their letter correspondence. Augustin spent 9 years with the manichaens, its no wonder he had such repugnant doctrine.
Braden Glass sorry, God invented predestination. Have you read his book?
@@godslittleman5451 I have. You should spend more time on it instead of the institutes on religion.
Braden Glass if you had, you would have come across the word, “predestined many times.” It’s not goin anywhere just cause you don’t like it.
@@godslittleman5451 predestination is certainly there, its just not what reformed say it is. See cooper's video debunking the limited atonement btw
Can someone who falls away be restored? Or upon falling, are they permanently doomed?
"Peter, the formidable rock, falling into great sin and experienced in struggle, did not despair and did not lose the presence of the Spirit, rather he shed bitter tears from a warm heart and, seeing that, the devil fled from him as though burned by fire." - St. Seraphim Of Sarov
Christ created us with free will, He even allows us to fall into sin in order for us to remain humble and contrite and not become proud as the demons/devils who themselves don't eat food nor sleep, have sexual relations and have knowledge of the Scriptures. Peter denied the Lord three times and supported false doctrine(Judaizing) yet the Lord accepted his repentance and self-correction. God bless!
@@anthonyp6055 I understand your point (and agree full heartedly)...but how do we reconcile that with the Hebrews passage that says "it's impossible to renew the repentant back to repentance"?
I know I'll find the answer eventually...I just need to search.
Where can your book be purchased?
A false faith is still faith, an atheist has faith and it is a false faith.
Thank you for Law & Gospel!
I agree with you on this subject and that was how I was taught on the subject, and it's also what see in the scriptures on the subject. And I see scripture as wise to be warning Christians to be careful to remain in the faith. There's no reason why they can't lose their salvation through being overly confident of their standing with God, as the Pharisees of Jesus' time did! They need to be as a good watchman, Jesus said - living as though always waiting confidently (through always remembering to be watchful and careful) for Jesus' coming!
If this video is true, then what are we supposed to do?
What do you mean? As regards to oneself - or as regards to those who fail to understand this subject correctly? Hebrews 7 - I think it is - explains how obedience is required - repentance is necessary. Exactly what the people of Israel - the majority refused to do. And repaed thei rjust reward as a result.
@@trustchristnotmyselfextran6298
@@debbystevens7494, peace sister.
I'm asking that if this video is true and a Christian can Spirit filled Christian can forfeit Salvation, then what are we as Christians supposed to do? Where do we find our assurance?
I'm sure you say obedience if necessary, not to negate Salvation by grace through faith alone right?
@@trustchristnotmyselfextran6298 What are we supposed to do? We are supposed to avoid all mortal sin. If we have the misfortune to commit a mortal sin God will forgive us if we have sincere repentance and if we go to Confession.
this is some seriously ignorant false teaching
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. Phillipians 1:6 Can you please explain how this verse fits in as well?
Philippians 1:6 has to be interpreted in the light of Matthew 10:22 (Scripture interprets Scripture). If we persevere in grace, avoiding mortal sin, repenting of mortal sin if we have the misfortune to commit one, then yes, we will grow to perfection in Christ.
Yes this
How do you reconcile these passages with the passages that teach eternal security and perseverance, such as; John 6:37-39, John 10:28-29, Romans 8:28-31?
Christopher Mount I’m guessing he doesn’t.
Let’s flip the around. How do you reconcile those texts you posted with the ones he pointed out within taking the hypothetical but not possible view or being externally connected to the church without true faith?
@@JonathanGrandt He reconciles them the way Lutheran doctors always have.
bookofconcord.org/sd-election?setSidebar=min#para68
bookofconcord.org/sd-election.php#para12
bookofconcord.org/exhortation.php
Let's face it, the Bible contradicts itself a lot. That's why we need the infallible teaching authority of our Holy Mother the Catholic Church. See 2 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 3:16, and Acts 8:31.
Let's face it the Bible contradicts itself all over the place. That's why we need the infallible teaching authority of our Holy Mother the Catholic Church.
Very good Dr. Cooper. Once saved always save theology drives me crazy. It just makes no sense.
OSAS is another Gospel.
What if some people fall away or are apostate and later return to Christ in genuine faith and repentance? I've heard very few of you guys expound on this!
I've heard from a Lutheran Pastor that God gives us the faith to believe......so does he take it away? And what do the words "eternal life" mean if not eternal?.....How many times can we "fall away" and then come back....does Scripture say? I'm not being sarcastic here, I just see so much evidence for OSAS compared to the verses that possibly say the opposite.....shouldn't we go with the preponderance of Scripture?
I think Scripture says that those who fall away can not return. At times it seems almost like there are 2 groups. 1 being Elect and 2 being those who come to Faith. Maybe the truly elect can not fall away but those whom follow Christ can. I’m probably wrong, but I fail to understand how it sometimes seems like there are different rules applied to “Elect” than other Christians.
Eternal life is the knowledge of Him, jn 17.3. It is participation in His uncreated life. When we stop obeying the gospel we become disconnected from grace and need to be renewed. David experienced this and thus said, God take not your holy Spirit from me. See you soon , iakobe.
God never takes away salvation (more accurately called "the state of grace" because no one knows for certain that he will be saved). Nor can any power in Heaven or on earth....except....we ourselves. The state of grace is a free gift, true, but like any gift it can be thrown away. We lose the state of grace by committing just one mortal sin, but God is merciful and will restore us to the state of grace if we sincerely repent and go to Confession.
Once-saved-always-saved is a license to sin and I think deep down everybody recognizes that.
Any Christian can fall away if they let the world take hold of their hearts. No one is immune from falling that is why it is vital we stay focused on Christ. 2Peter 3:17 “You therefore, beloved, know this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.” On e saved, always saved is Calvinistic.
This is a question frought with all kinds of semantic difficulties. What exactly IS a Christian? Who meets the standards of being a "genuine" Christian? Which ones are regenerate? What does it even mean to "lose" faith or salvation? In some sense, it either continues, or you never had it.
You can't tell your wife, "You know, honey, I had a never-ending love for you, but then I just quit."
That is a very good point, Hans. The relationship (personal relationship with Jesus, no?) with Jesus is often likened to a marriage, with Jesus being the groom and our souls being the bride. The book of Revelation speaks of the Church as the mystical body of Christ. Some Catholic hymns speak of Jesus, "the bridegroom of my soul". A nun is considered to be a bride of Christ.
In a marriage the partners need to have faith in each other, have hope that the marriage will work, and they must do good works for each other. We should understand that faith without works is dead but we should REALLY understand that love without good works is the phonyest kind of love imaginable. Having faith in each other and that's all that is needed? No.....
If unsaved humans can keep loving someone for their whole life, how much easier is it for one with the Spirit to love God even longer?
The problem is you don’t define the words in your Bible being saved is not a moment in time it’s the process from beginning to end!
Very well explained…I used to believe we can’t loose it but based on your explanation with the scriptures…It’s clear
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."
If believing in Jesus grants you everlasting life, you can never stop having it. Otherwise it's incoherent.
It is in the moment you believe that you are passed from death unto life.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24
So is the Holy Spirit a leaking seal till the day of redemption? A new heart of flesh and a new spirit isn't enough to keep someone saved? God can't sovereignly keep someone in the faith ?
@@tomtemple69I don't understand God to force someone to disbelieve or believe in Him. Salvation requires a person's free will and/or volition. The Lord's love is made apparent in that He allows His creation to be able of themselves to serve and obey Him consciously and not involuntarily in a deterministic or fatalistic sense.
@@tomtemple69"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of Heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." Matthew 11:12
A particular pious bishop named Theophan importantly clarified;
"The fact that the Kingdom of God is "taken by force" presupposes personal effort."
A person may have initially or for a long period of time sought it only to then eventually have forsaken it. At one point a person may of their own volition work out their salvation, potentially through particular decisions or judgements of such a person they may fall from the faith or cease to work out their salvation.
@@anthonyp6055 "I don't understand God to force someone to disbelieve or believe in Him. Salvation requires a person's free will and/or volition. The Lord's love is made apparent in that He allows His creation to be able of themselves to serve and obey Him consciously and not involuntarily in a deterministic or fatalistic sense."
yeah, that's your opinion
the Bible says otherwise
also, "force" would imply God doesn't have total and complete control over our existence and doesn't uphold our existence moment by moment
Very confusing this guy...!!!
I was an apostate before coming back to Chirst. Do I have salvation if I have faith now?
You could be saved. God allows, and in fact encourages, moral U-turns.
Same here im now wondering the same
Yes, God loves a repentant sinner. Look to Christ for your faith. You don't find it through introspection. Get baptized if you haven't been, partake of the Lord's supper, worship him in communion of the saints, study his word and pray to him. Don't spend a bunch of time interrogating your heart, spend your energy seeking to serve your King. Turn that over and over in your mind. Godspeed! Welcome back!
@@guyroszel7584 I didn't realize I had fallen I want the HOLY GHOST and not like this
I was attacked and got into Spiritual sifted I want to come back and Satan know I don't belong .He was hitting me hard and I didn't understand. I didn't even read and study. Need to be restored and healed. I had the HOLY GHOST and don't remember what happened and got into flesh lies. The attack s mess my nerves
Confess to a Catholic priest and you’ll be fine.
I was married for 22 years. I asked for a divorce and got it. I was guilty of committing sexual sins. She remarried after 2 years and divorced again. I have been with another women for 18 years but I am not married. I still have sexual relations with the woman. I belirve that Christ died for all of my sins but I have fear that I will go to hell because I'm not married. If God takes me tonight will I go to hell?
If you belong to God, listen and don’t resist God or harden your heart. What is it that God would have you do? Will you put your faith in God as savior from your old ways to live the life He has for you? That is the question to answer first.
This is a great explanation of the text. First Get the book, it’s excellent. I love my evangelical brothers and sisters in Christ, but like Dr Cooper I struggled with this issue. With COVID-19 and everything else I can say as a matter of fact my faith is weaker than it was months ago. I still repent and reach out as I need God so much more than I can comprehend. The fact people can backslide to apostasy is real, not through works, but through a lack of faith. When evangelicals say that there are only maybe a few lines in the Bible that indicate you might lose your faith, and eternal security is all over the place, I just could not see that as I read the whole new testament. I found it to be the opposite. I also believe the Lutheran position described here provides the most security for people as I especially dislike how the “fake Christian” argument goes as it either makes people insecure in their faith, or requires them to look at themselves instead of Christ for faith. Again I love my Christian brothers dearly whom disagree with this, peace and In Christ we all must be in this broken world
If this video is true, then what are we as Christians supposed to do?
@@trustchristnotmyselfextran6298 late late response here. You want to know what to do? Look to Christ. Pray for wisdom and discernment so that all of us Christian’s can be United. Just the fact that you’re asking this question means you want to know. Pray about it. Ask for the gifts that you know God is offering you and mean it (with faith) and it’s a done deal. And then use it. I believe from your one comment you are saved but you’re afraid of backsliding. Stay in the word and talk to God and ask for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as he offered it to us! Another gift! Take it. He love you and wants you and all Christians to have the gift of pointing people to Christ in one way or another. You have faith brother? Take it. Never worry and never live in fear. God is with you.
>There aren't any cliffs in kansas
>Highway 83 between lake scott and monument rocks national park: Am I a joke to you?
This guy is very wrong, I could argue, but I will just say a few things. One, the true regenerate soul is made a new creature in Christ. Christ will not lose one sheep. John says we have been given power to become the sons of God, and I will add daughters because there is neither male nor female says the Scripture, all are one in Christ. But in John, it says that the true Christian cannot sin, because His Seed (Christ) remains in us and we cannot sin. We do sin in our flesh but not in our soul. Our soul has the Covering of the Blood of Christ. There is no sin that the Blood doesn't wash away. This is all Truth from Scripture. We, as true worshippers, cannot lose what God has given us, because it is a change, a complete change in us, we have been made new. We have the seal of the Holy Spirit. Don't listen to man's thought on this. Search the Scripture and pray that God will show you the Truth of it.
Do you deny that the apostates have had no connection to Christ and the fruits of the gospel, even if they don’t have saving faith?
Your commercials are very annoying!
Again I disagree w all this "you can walk away fm ...Christ... " or " that you can forfeit ya salvation..." Ha ha ..ol Mr Lot gave it his best shot...yet God,s word....NOT..Luther or any other....man..declares Mr Lot...." JUST.." (V7) & " RIGHTEOUS..." (V8).. in 2Pet.2"7-9.... who vexed his righteous sole fm...day to day....aka...??? the guy was MISERABLY....saved..,& living in a landfill to....boot....!!!! well their goes ya Lordship...salvation...also...wasn't exactly " making Christ Lord & Master of his miserable life style...." huh????? so ya can forget all that " forfeit..." & " walk away...." bs
I struggled with this for years and now I’m Lutheran. There’s just no other way to read these texts.
You should be Catholic.
Are you the same one who bashed every Christian artist because they can't live up to your standards? I don't agree with a most artists. We will know them by their fruit.
What?
From a Lutheran...approach/perspective...???? really....!!!! did the writings of Luther...somehow become inspired...??? or somehow become " Final Authority..."????? well put this in ya " perspective/ approach...1Cor.11:1; Col.2:8;Psm.118:7,8... Eph.1:13,14 tells us we are SEALED w/ the Holy Spirit of Promise....&_Eph 4:30 tells how long we are,....SEALED...until the day of Redemption...!!!! so if ya mot in heaven...ya still...SEALED...still a child of God...still saved...so what's been lost...??? how did ya lose it...???? & how do ya plan on getting it back???? if ya overnight begin w/ you guys are always citing Dead men...try citing the Living Word fm...the Living Saviour...via the Holy Spirit....who,s more alive than u or I...
I'd like to make a slightly different point which is that the conditional Scripture passages you refer to don't imply that one has the capacity to fall away from faith by the free exercise of our will. They're merely observations that one will only be saved if one remains in the faith. Luther made the point that our will isn't free to choose either to believe or disbelieve and that it's like a beast of burden between two riders (God and Satan). If God rides us we go where God wills and if Satan rides us we go where Satan wills, and nor says Luther, can we choose who will ride us because it is the riders themselves who contend with each other as to who will take possession of us. Ultimately of course God is in control and therefore whether we're saved or damned has already been predetermined. So if people fall from the faith and are damned that is due to predestination not due to human free will. So whilst I agree that "once saved always saved" isn't Biblical, I don't agree with the Lutheran teaching that the act of falling away isn't predetermined by God. My conviction is that Luther was correct and the Formula of Concord wrong on this.
+Edward -- I can't fully tell from your post if you're in the Lutheran camp or not (my impression is that you are not but if you are my apology) but you might want to check out this article.
*_"Why Lutheran Predestination Isn't Calvinist Predestination"_* by *Mathew Block* from _First Things_
www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/10/why-lutheran-predestination-isnt-calvinist-predestination
resurrectionjose I've previously read Mathew Block’s article and commented on it in the comments below it. But briefly I don't agree with his argument that Luther didn't endorse predestination to hell. There's nothing in Luther’s commentary on Genesis that actually supports this. It's plain that we can't know whether we're saved (and therefore conclude we're predestined to be saved) except through our faith in Christ since He is the only access to God that we have, but this doesn't rule out predestination to hell which Luther most certainly defends in The Bondage of the Will, and which he supports when he says in his Genesis commentary “I have written that everything is absolute and unavoidable”.
Also there's a misunderstanding in Lutheran circles that Luther was opposed to reason and logic particularly with reference to predestination and that he was in agreement with the Formula of Concord on this. However this is completely mistaken. Luther only opposed reason when it sought to make a value judgement on the truthfulness of Scripture, however he defended to the utmost the use of reason when arguing from Scriptural premises. Therefore we find him making the following summary of his position in The Bondage of the Will which confirms he held predestination to both heaven and hell:
“For if we believe it to be true that God foreknows and predestines all things, that he can neither be mistaken in his foreknowledge nor hindered in his predestination, and that nothing takes place but as he wills it (as reason itself is forced to admit), then on the testimony of reason itself there can't be any free choice in man or angel or any creature”. (page 293, Luther's Works, Vol 33)
By the way in my eyes I’m a Lutheran since I agree with Luther and support the teachings of the Book of Concord that were in existence during Luther's lifetime. However since Lutheranism since 1580 has been defined by acceptance of the Formula of Concord’s teaching on predestination, which I hold is in error (and which Luther wouldn't have agreed with), I don't refer to myself as a Lutheran.
+Edward -- Luckily while coming back here and re-reading the entirety of your post after digging around one of my external hard drives (it's normally hooked up to my laptop computer) for the titles of one or two books as well as looking up some stuff online, I noticed that I might have been a bit hasty or simply misread the second paragraph in your previous post. (Further below I'm going ahead and mention what I presumed at first and cite the title and accompanying link to Amazon.) The one thing I should have done but didn't bother to do because it might have been way too time-consuming is looking for a quotation in some book I have on former fundamentalist Christians ("Leaving The Fold..." by Edward Babinski) whereby the author either insinuates that Luther held to "double predestination" or directly quotes him by actually citing from one of his works. What I recall is something about the *_"acme of faith"_* and will probably look it up another time during the upcoming morning or afternoon. I also don't want to be rummaging around one of my bookshelves in another part of the house and near a family member who is sound asleep. :)
All that being said, I think you're most probably right about Luther holding to *and* perhaps early on teaching "double predestination" while Lutheranism in general and many Lutherans in particular say otherwise. That article by Mathew Block is a case in point. I never bothered to read the comments section of his article which ironically enough is something I normally do since comments/posts by readers tend to be more interesting and enlightening than the article(s) themselves. I spotted your comment but won't be elaborating on it here. I will end with the following and touch upon what you said in the second paragraph.
*_"Also there's a misunderstanding in Lutheran circles that Luther was opposed to reason and logic..."_* Even though I didn't go any further and cite the rest of what you said, on the whole you are correct. I had to also look around one of my other folders (simply entitled "Lutheranism") where I have 80+ eBooks and journal articles specifically on Martin Luther and Lutheranism. I'll assume you're familiar with the following book that I cited further below. I also took the liberty of citing the Baptist minister and theologian, Roger E. Olson, who had written a blog article showcasing that Luther did indeed hold to "double predestination."
Lastly, even if Luther never uttered the same type of statements he did in earlier years I believe the usual criticisms against Calvinism (re: TULIP) or even a modified form of it (e.g., emphasis on 'T' and 'P' while giving short shrift to 'U', 'L', and 'I') can just as well be leveled at him. "Double predestination" no matter how it's sliced boils down to one group being chosen for eternal life (i.e., the Elect) and another group predestined to eternal perdition (i.e., the non-Elect). Mr. Olson in a few of his books on Arminianism (that includes one or two arguing *against* Calvinism) in my view does a splendid job of showing up a number of faulty lines of theological reasoning within Calvinist thought. About the one area that I think he *might* be waffling on is Romans 9 when he more or less quotes John Wesley: *_"It cannot mean, whatever it meant besides, that the God of truth is a liar....Let it mean what it will. It cannot mean that the Judge of all the world is unjust."_* Sounds great at first glance and I reckon eases one's troubled conscience as well as a good deal of cognitive dissonance regarding some "horrible decree" and God's love, but it seems to avoid the text itself and the necessary exegetical work needed in order to determine what that part of Romans (or more to the point chapters 9-11) means and not what we wish it to mean for the sake of squaring things away with some cherished or deeply held doctrine.
(I'm trying to find a dissertation online that I have on hand that has since been published in a prestigious monograph series, 'Library of New Testament Studies', and will presume it's either not freely available anymore or I just haven't looked well enough. For the heck of it I will cite the title way at the end and attempt to find it another time. It part one of a trilogy on the entirety of Romans 9, and from an Arminian persuasion.)
*_"The Devil's Whore. Reason and Philosophy in the Lutheran Tradition"_* (2011) edited by *Jennifer H. Dragseth*
www.amazon.com/Devils-Whore-Philosophy-Lutheran-Tradition/dp/0800698509/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1517473976&sr=8-2&keywords=%27%27The+Devil%27s+Whore.+Reason+and+Philosophy+in+the+Lutheran+Tradition%27%27
*_"Luther and 'Double Predestination'"_* by *Roger E. Olson*
www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolson/2013/04/luther-and-double-predestination/
*_"Arminian Principles for Interpreting Romans 9."_*
wesleyanarminian.wordpress.com/category/romans-9/
Brian J. Abasciano *_"Paul’s Use of the Old Testament in Romans 9.1-9. An Intertextual & Theological Exegesis"_* [LNTS] (2004)
resurrectionjose I clicked on your link to the article "Arminian Principles for Interpreting Romans 9" but I don't agree with the argument presented. Romans 9 is about individual predestination. One has to indulge in contorted arguments to arrive at the conclusion that Paul isn't discussing divine predestination to heaven and hell.
Luther in "The Bondage of the Will", before presenting Scriptural proof for predestination, argues from the premise that God is omnipotent and omniscient and that God's foreknowledge can't be invalidated, that everything is predestined by God to happen. He argues that God's foreknowledge imposes necessity on everything happening exactly as He has foreknown it will, which means there's no human free will to do anything different. Luther's main emphasis was of course to refute free will in reply to Erasmus but in doing so he argued, totally convincingly, that everything is predestined by God to happen which he then proved from Scripture, in particular Romans 9.
In addressing the point that God can't do anything which would seem to us to be unloving and unjust Luther makes the argument that we shouldn't judge God as if He was human as God's justice is above our understanding, and we'll only understand it in the next life when we see that He's perfectly just. (pages 289-293, Luther's Works, Vol 33).
Not a Calvinist, but God's work speaks for itself. God said he will complete the good work in you that he started. I am not gonna argue with God. We are not saved or justified by our works. Jesus is our mediator in heaven. The holy spirit changed us into a new creation. Period.
What about those Christians who continue to have faith, prayers and church, but lives in sin...cohabitation, adultery, abortion, etc....They have faith but live in sin, are they saved?..
what does to continue in faith even means?
Luther taught Faith Alone for salvation. So without faith neither child baptism nor adult baptism whether it's sprinkling or immersion can save a person.
Infants can have faith. Infants who are baptized do have faith.