Self-gaslighting into, out of Shared Fantasy (Read Description)
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- Опубликовано: 27 окт 2020
- Counselling www.narcissistic-abuse.com/ctc...
In the honeymoon phase you self-gaslight by idealizing the narcissist. Then you self-gaslight by totally devaluing him. In both cases, you have lost touch with reality.
Auto- or self-gaslighting: when you hear only what you want to hear, what you expect to hear, and not what was actually said. Confirmation bias. Resistance to change and learning coupled with impaired reality testing.
Future faking is not lovebombing or grooming in pre-shared fantasy phase: narcissist is not predatory, but acquisitive.
Healthy adults in intimate relationships have a fear of loss and abandonment + possessiveness + competition.
The cerebral narcissist has only separation anxiety (which is typical of a pre-Oedipal child), though some narcissists have all three, esp. psychopathic and somatic.
Intimate partners of narcissists are virtual singles with a petulant child or a stern father at home: dating is their only outlet and escape.
The only two faux adult roles the narcissist is willing to play (in order to secure the shared fantasy) are brief and devoid of any responsibilities, chores, or commitment. The narcissist's investment is proportional to his expectations and to benefits derived. This is only a small part of the manipulative ploy which also includes delusional role playing by everyone involved.
A narcissist with extreme object inconstancy and abandonment anxiety (esp. a compensatory narcissist whose grandiosity masks an inordinately low sense of self-worth) reacts all the time with romantic jealousy to his intimate partner's infidelity. But most narcissists turn a blind eye to adultery and betrayal and go about their business of securing plentiful and regular narcissistic supply.
Still: ALL narcissists feel humiliated owing to their inability to lead normal lives in which they are not compelled to share their women or give them up to other men (unavoidable outcomes of the narcissist's disability and ubiquitous dysfunction).
Narcissists switch from internal to external mortification real fast but they do first experience agonizing trepidation and mayhem. Such pain should be distinguished from romantic jealousy.
Being cheated on is only the tip of an iceberg.
Imagine a constant state of humiliation: women cheat on you and abandon you, businesses you create go bankrupt, projects you initiate fall apart, zero long-term self-efficacy, an impostor syndrome, a sense of lost agency and external locus of control.
Faced with such trenchant failure, the narcissist has two options: 1. Grandiosity (reverting to external mortification, casting everyone as malicious or envious); or 2. Suicide (opting for an internal mortification: "I am so impaired that I better put an end to it all"). It is a no-brainer. Of course, having to defend one's fantastically inflated view of oneself bring with it its own set of humiliations, betrayals, abandonments, derision, slights, challenges, and put downs.
The chronically sick and addicts become their illnesses: their disorders displace them and they transmogrify into their dysfunctions.
From individual to dysfunction.
Only the disease is left behind, having consumed and spat out the person.
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My ex had magical thinking with me. He would put photos of me in holiday resorts, before I met him. He showed me through social media. When my previous relationship broke up, I told him. He invited me over to his country and I visited those exact places and the magical thinking came exactly to light. He financially hurt me and discarded me after numerous aggressive controlling behaviour during our shared fantasy at these resorts. I left basically thrown at the airport and in tears and in deep shock. I started to research and watch your videos. All the traits, Idealization, Father figure, devaluing, discarding, silent treatment, rages, gaslighting and blaming me for everything, controlling, belittling and judging and childish and expecting me to pay for everything. He was selfish in everything. I thank you, as you have been a major part of my healing. Many, many respects.
He triangulated me and I was supremely angry. I publicly humiliated him and the other woman. I didn't understand the condition then. On hearing this I can't help but feel sad for this lost boy who is doomed. I could have been easier on him had I known the truth about it. But then Sam, will his tendency to dissociate mean he will forget the mortification and merely keep repeating the process? It's a strange cocktail of emotions that I cycle through. Your videos have saved me from mental collapse and restored my self esteem and joy in life. Bless you, I'm so appreciative of all that you do.
I'm having a difficult time deciding whether or not my "man", is just a normal jealous man or a narcissist. Because he gets so jealous. He even got enraged at the beginning of the relationship because I wasn't holding his hand in the car on the ride home. And he held in his rage til we got to my house, then he exploded. And one time he came over insisting I had some other man inside the house, running out the back door, he even ran around my apartment to catch him...and of course no one was there, the only one with me in the house was my 12 yr old daughter....I never cheated on him.
Yes I remember that prediction Dr Vaknim. All the respect for your research
The brilliant and handsome Sam Vaknin. I am a 27 year old woman diagnosed with severe Borderline Personality Disorder as well as met the criteria for both Avoidant and Schizoid p.d, though I often notice I can go into the other related realms in the vulnerable dark triad, I switch into factor 2/secondary psychopathy or vulnerable narcissism. My purpose with this comment is to thank you for endlessly educating the human race. How we all and the world of psychology would be lost without you. I have watched you for a while and I love your unique intellect. That said, I shall now watch this video because I do indeed self-gaslight.
I don't understand the games and manipulation done by co workers. I had to take a mental health day.
Same here
How is like to be border line girl...?
Must agree there is no future faking with narcs. I know that all he sayed were truly his dreams but will never come true with sabotaging everything in his life. It's heartbreaking that all I could do about it is to leave..
I think your work is amazing.I ve been studying with you for four years.It has helped me so much.Thank you.
Mr.Vaknin, I would love to hear your interpretation of the “Slenderman Stabbing”, which as you likely know, is a unique case of shared fantasy/shared psychosis, that, admittedly, shares a lot of qualities with my own complex trauma. These similarities include: age range (give or take 2 years), themes of the delusions, and the lack of noticeable indications of toxicity to outsiders/adults. The latter of these resulted in particularly large amounts of unintentional “flying monkeys” whom believed my abuser when she would bring up my ASD, something I confided in her, to discredit my claims of her false suicide threats and gaslighting.
There is hardly any information on shared psychotic disorder between two children and or adolescents. For years, I have been in the midst of self doubt about whether what I experienced, was actually able to be defined as abuse. The “Slenderman Stabbing”, as unfortunate as it was, was the first time I realized that my trauma may have been more than me, an autistic person, doing something wrong or simply “not understanding” how to be “empathetic” towards a seemingly troubled and suicidal friend.
Since then, along with one of my special interests being in psychology, I have found an odd sense of validation in understanding more about the case, as it makes times that were confusing and chaotic for me easier to process. I thought I had healed from the trauma, but over the course of COVID I have started to have nightmares and flashbacks. I am trying to find a way to tell my brain that this all wasn’t my fault like I was brought to believe.
I understand you must be very busy with counseling those who need your help more than I, or that perhaps my reaching out isn’t healthy for my healing. I also understand if there is a particular reason you have not touched this topic, such as the ages of those involved and the controversy online surrounding it. However, any input you have on this case would be a massive insight for me, and may be an interesting topic to explore for your channel.
Regardless of your response, I want to extend a greeting and well wishes for you and your nearest and dearest. Your videos are always interesting to watch whether for healing or for education.
Just because there is a limitation to what you can offer others doesn't mean you need to purposely hurt others.
A fear of being seen as an ordinary human being with minuses and pluses, virtues and faults, made out of meat and flash, sometimes right, sometimes wrong... I see it as the main reason why narc is a narc!
Ok in my opinion narcissists are worse than psychopaths.narcissists fill their void space inside their mind with bloating papers to absorb others happiness slowly but surely
I admit to my malignant optimism and codependency in my last situation. After two years, I hit my limit on the merry go round and shook free from the false hope that had been keeping me in bondage, broke free from my own deluded insanity in the dysfunctional dynamic.
I heard someone say to only drink when you are already happy. Solve the problem first, then drink 😂
Especially the last sentences, although said before in previous videos, make me very sad. Because of what is described, I cannot afford staying in contact with my parents. Actually, I should press charges against them.. But on the other hand, how is it possible for them to suffer even more..and I also don't want that for them. They have gone through a lot of abuse themselves, and they'll never be able to get out of their narcissism, which has already had the effect of isolating them. How can I beat them down, when all that's left is even more suffering. As if that would make it any easier on me. They shouldn't have gotten children. But being delusional is part of the disorder, right?
I personally remember that video Sam posted back in late March/early April when the pandemic had just started in the USA. So yes Sam was one of the first to mention remdesivir at least publicly.
He did tell me he was diagnosed with bipolar, borderline personality 2, like several years ago, but he blamed it on drugs.
Hey Dr Vaknin - great video (as usual) I think you mean ”Karen & Gavin” with a ”v”. 🙋♀️💞🙏✌️😘
Nope. Gammon: www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/06/the-class-hatred-behind-karen-bashing/
I wish dr Vaknin would do an in-depth analysis of the Chris Watts case. The dynamic of the murderer and his wacky parents
Yes! I felt like i adopted a rebelious 16 yr old than being in a relationship with a man
Alcohol works better and faster than prozac or any other so called antidepressant, in my opinion. The only problem is , if one overdoes it, you wake up in really bad , embarrassing, or even potentially fatal situations
Does the narcissist swing from internal to external mortification (and back) because it's the only way to tell himself and any asset objects he intends to keep through the mortification that his failure is due to something everyone must depend on him to know? For example, several of the narcissist I deal with will make up tremendous lies about other areas of their life that no one knows about (but them) to explain problems they have created in the space of the shared fantasy. It seemed odd to me that they would swing back and forth with their type of mortification until I saw that it allowed them to construct an unverifiable excuse for their failures by allowing them to construct the entire "new" story. Is there another reason? I have watched many of your videos and have not found the reason explained. Thank you.
@Richard Hill: Narcs are people usually associated and around a lot of people from their upbringing up to later time in their life and what happens with them is that they blame those very same people for their mistakes (mortification here would be constant backfire and abuse they received from their caregivers when they were children) but they never the less constantly deceive themselves (and others ofcourse-their narc supplies) that those very same caregivers and many others are to blame of why they are not leading a succesful life!
It's turning the tables internally (within them and the way they think of many people from their childhood past) and from an external point of view (from the outside world-narc supplies) getting approval/love/applause/attention to present themselves as true heroes in their life-story! If they weren't doing that they would have killed themselves a long time ago not being able to realistically go through their pain/trauma, forgive and let it go (a cognitive disonance and personality disorder all together).
Their invented Superman shield/outfit is a safe-guard for them to live a care-free and oblivious life where they are always right and others are always wrong (standard behaviour of every living narc)!
Many of them have gaps in their storylines (you know-time of leasure, laziness, not good treatment of themselves, no look out for a degree and a job) so along with them gossiping all of their family, cousins, lovers, pets they create fictional stories of somewhat success they achieved in their lifes to cover those very same gaps where they basically did nothing but stay home, watch a TV show and not even bother to go the bathroom!
If you ever watched a movie called "The Usual Suspects" where the main character fools everyone around him with his storylines that he makes up on the spot, presenting himself to be a victim yet by the end revealed to be a villain, well that's how narc functions (many probably already have prepared their stories earlier before the first meeting with their narc supply, some probably make it on the spot too like the main character in the movie)!
It's a major deceivement, better said denial of life as Mr. Sam Vaknin mentioned many times in terms of a "Peter Pan" syndrome: a refusal to grow up, take adult responsibilites and duties. They are only up to child-like games ("my dad is better than your dad", "If you don't give me what I need I will shout from the bottom of my lungs and tell everyone you tried to suffocate me", etc...) loads of tantrum and rage and limited reactions.
That is why it is called a "fantasy" because that is all narcs want and desire, that is their permanent state of mind (taking a new toy, playing with it and once bored throwing it in the dumpster and going out buying a new one-throwing being very generous to write-more like tearing it apart!). No real possibility of turning it into reality as that would kill the magic set out from the get-go and destroy their Peter Pan world and once again: their permanent state of mind, never being able to change as narcs never change (Peter Pan association being almost too old for narcs as even he is more grown up than many narcs-most of them are at the age of 2 years old mentally and emotionally)!
Bottom line: children fantasize, adults live, it's quite clear in what category does a narc fit in!
If i read a side note of yours (prof. Vaknin) correctly, your hypothesis on alcohol, as an emotional disregulation. Perhaps this may underline an aspect of a Borderline (& NPD, if they share same roots) tendency, of emotional disregulation. This disregulation seems rarely if ever expressed, (maybe in your one lecture on covert bordeline) the feeling of exhilaration / rejuvenated meaning/ not quite but perhaps cousin to euphoria, all of which im curious if you find this true. In parallel the last sensation, euphoria, is perhaps better reserved for a different dissorder (also rarely expressed but well captured by Fyodor D.) the premonition to epileptic seizures.
Watch my latest conversation with a clinical psychologist from Poland.
Thank you about the alcoholism!!! Thank you, thank you!! Thanks so much for saying that is a theory about it being a depressant. It's a disinhibitor for sure, and that's why I'm drinking it. I cant live with these feelings. Reality sucks rn.
does a narcisist know that they are a narcisist?
It depends on how smart they are. The smarter they are the bigger chance they know.
Is trolling associated with personality disorders?
And Do you have to have a personality disorder to troll?
No and no.
Dr. Vaknin, could you comment on cross dressing? Is it a form of transforming into the mother, being auto erotic? Is it common in narcis
Sorry, Is it common in narcissists? They seem to have little insight into why they do it or why it consumes them as an addiction? It was a huge problem with my late husband and his hidden addictions of cross dressing, shopping and gambling became evident because he couldnt hide them anymore because of his illness.
He became ill with terminal cancer.
Very poignant talk. If you feel you have long time cycles of mortification can you diagnose yourself? What do you do about the family constellation? Is there a test; is it about getting a professional who does this? It would be good to know exactly in what ways you became your parents and in what ways you protected yourself and diverged.