Narcissist’s Two Rejections: Giving, Love, and Abuse
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2020
- The narcissist equates love with giving and giving goes hand with hand with an entitlement and license to abuse.
Why, when women replace the narcissist as a man (lover, husband), does it cause him mortification? Only women possess this power.
1. The narcissist interacts with women in two roles: child and father. Their rejection recreates the family dynamics (dead mother maternal abandonment).
When women reject the narcissist and betray him, they are also doing it as a mother would reject her child, as his mother had rejected and abandoned him.
When women prefer another man to the narcissist, he perceives it as adopting another child to take his place. This is life-threatening, it is about survival.
It also reaffirms and confirms his essential unlovability as a defective, inadequate, unworthy, bad, and failing object.
When women swap him for a substitute man ostentatiously or inform the narcissist about their cheating in detail, it is impossible to interpret their misconduct in any other way.
2.And why do the narcissist feel that he is the rejected party if he is the one who is doing all the rejecting at first?
There is a qualitative difference between his rejection and theirs: the narcissist’s rejection is a mere test, posturing, "not serious", a bluff, and a facade.
The etiology is different as is the motivation: his rejection is tentative, intermittent, targeted, and prospective ("Will my needs be met? Am I too crippled to be worthy of their investment, commitment, and unconditional love? "), their rejection is final, total, and retroactive ("my needs are not met ... he is not worth wasting time on").
In short, there is no equivalency or symmetry between his rejection of his intimate partners and their rejection of him:
He rejects his women as a child would reject his mother: harmless though unpleasant temper tantrums coupled with understandable sexlessness. The cerebral never cheats on them (replaces them with other women or harm them).
The narcissist’s women reject him as a mother would reject her son: life threatening, harrowing, hurtful, coupled with understandable sexlessness. They cheat on him and betray him (replace him with other men and harm him).
Their response is the nuclear option, totally disproportionate to his provocations. They are reacting to the breakdown and the dysfunction of the idealized version of him, not to the real him: to their broken dreams, frustrated fantasies, and thwarted wishes. The narcissist bears the brunt of their dissonance.
He ends up being mortified because, during the grooming/lovebombing/honeymoon phase, he colludes in conjuring up the idealized him. He comes to believe in it as they both enter the shared fantasy. The women's abrupt and cruel exits force the narcissist to "wake up" and contrast the idealized, embraced, beloved him and the real, rejected, abandoned him.
The narcissist feels deceived and bitter because early on in the shared fantasy he had exposed the women to the child who served as a lure (to establish object constancy and forestall abandonment). They chose to ignore it at their peril. The narcissist thought it was an integral and essential part of the deal they had struck. When they cheated on the child and betrayed it, he felt that they had breached a contract. He doesn't deserve it. Plus, the child is narcissistic, sick, which renders the abandonment and betrayal even more egregious and heartless.
During the grooming phase, the narcissist trots out the Father. The woman has daddy issues and constructs her idealized version of him around it. He colludes in this process in order to transition as smoothly and seamlessly as possible to the shared fantasy.
Once in the shared fantasy, the narcissist reveal the child. It is a shocking revelation which causes resentment: the woman feels that she had been deceived. The child's narcissistic abuse type 1 and sexlessness is interpreted as humiliating rejection, withholding and abandonment. She withdraws and cheats or tries to bargain the child away and replace him with the idealized version. This results in narcissistic abuse type 2.
Narcissistic abuse type 2 is adult and carried out by the Father, the core of the idealized version of me. This confluence renders it traumatic and hurtful.
Yet, it is the narcissist’s self-assumed dual role that makes it easier and safer for his intimate partners to cheat in the first place:
The father role makes it feel safe for them to misbehave: they expected unconditional acceptance from the narcissists, regardless of their misconduct.
They also did not perceive their actions as cheating or betrayal. One cannot cheat on a child or a father, both wouldn't mind or care. It is also common and accepted practice to carp regarding one's son or "old man". It does not constitute a betrayal.
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When your with a narcissist you feel like you've lost yourself. Where did the happy bubbly person go. The narc sucks your energy and life out of you. Isolates you from all the people who care for you. One day they are expressing undying love for you and the next day they hate you with a passion. And the cycle goes like that over and over . No matter what you do for them it's never enough. Get out of the narc relationship. Run and never look back. They are usually addicts of some sort . Sometimes drugs and alcohol combined. With this combination they are very dangerous and will eventually kill you. Know your worth and leave them.
Yes it is true
Yes, sad but true.
They can also be very religious. Bad people love to disguise as good people, but they have no deep, genuine relationships. In their heart, they loathe you, but as long as you believe in their facade, they wont discard you.
Often pornography is their drug.
Yes pot and alcohol and we have a neighbor who is an alcoholic and he keeps enabling him God I ate I’m in such a toxic environment yet like I feel like I’m in the twilight zone in the 12th dimension
Professor Sam is a rockstar when it comes to explaining Narcissistic abuse.
It was literally like talking to someone with dementia in never ending circles. He would tell these stories about me as if I had zero recollection or was not present for these events. It was madness.
Same. 90 minutes of discussion regarding a bad event he had been responsible for. Then, if the subject was brought up again, he would be completely baffled as to "what the problem had been about". "I've done nothing wrong...what the hell are you talking about?" 'Why do YOU keep going over the same criticisms of me?" "Your mentally ill". Then, the complete take down and discard. I'm now free....at last.
Exactly!!!! My ex bpd did that to me too. I mean WTF??????
They probably do have the early signs of dementia
So very true. I had known the narcissist when we were teenagers. We met again many years later as adults. I struggled for months to see him as an adult. I couldn't feel it, I couldn't sense it. Till this day I never saw this adult. He is a boy, forever a child trapped inside a man's body.
Awww poor Tristan! Lol
Very early in my acquaintance with my ex, a narcissist, he told me he was a 12 year old trapped inside a 70 year old body. I laughed, thinking that was cute. Little did I know at the time what and who I was dealing with.
@@chessaddictress Absolutely.. If you listen carefully. They will tell you who they are!! We just choose not to want to believe it at that time, because we do not want to. X
@@lanasmith2500 don't think we really know what they mean. Who would choose the life of hell they put you through if we really understood what they were.
@@lanasmith2500 So true. We also project our positivity on them. We want to believe in this illusional figure he presented to us in the beginning.
I put here some of his phrases from the beginning of the relationship:
- We'll see if you could really love me.
- Sex is a power question put in place, therefore I tended to reject women who wanted to seduce me so badly.
- I destroy relationships passive-aggressively.
- My ex didn't know that I would dump her for her little insults.
There are many other things he told me, but I wanted to believe that he was the victim of his past of his ex-girlfriends (PROJECTION!).. And then the horror show began.
My ex was an infantile, uneducated, arrogant domestic abuser. How people can keep talking about narcissists for years is beyond me. You get tired of trying to understand the b.s. people that narcissists are. After a while, you don’t even care to learn about what makes them tick because they are contradicting and make no sense. And they don’t see it or get it. They never will. It’s all a waste of time.
Idk… I do it because I’ve been brainwashed by my husband for years and it took a LOT of confirmation for me to accept this reality. Now, we’ve been together for 17 years, longest relationship and only marriage for him and me. So, I want to help him. Not by being with him but by showing him his own patterns, calling him out on them and leaving. I never want to be with him again, but if he can see it maybe he can work on it and maybe he won’t die miserable and alone. I don’t think he deserves that. I see a good person whose been repeatedly hurt so he made a fake self to cover his pain. I get it. I can actually try to embody psychopathic tendencies when I am really hurt. I will go to a place where I feel nothing and care about nothing but my desire. I hate that it had to be this way but he was never going to stop lying for me. But, I am waaaay better off now. I am 2 years sober, trying desperately to stay that way. Meanwhile, I am constantly left to wonder wtf he’s doing, talking to, and I can never ask him about it or he just blows up.
@@ZieSpiralOut Well said but do you really think he cares if you die alone?
yes
@@Desmondbrown73 some essential metals just aren’t magnetic. The books hypothesis generalised & you are totally wrong on at least some exceptions. Some people are just pure hurtful and damaging (possibly without knowing it) The innocence @Clay Allison mentions is call trust. Trust is a beautiful and essential golden element in life but like gold it ain’t magnetic.
@@Desmondbrown73 yeah if one only could have that book appear miraculously…it would possibly safe somewhere but not all from the experience. However it sounds very ignorant and not well versed on your side about facts…no it isn’t always 2 who drive it…sadly.
You honestly end up not wanting anything from them... it all, no matter the value.... cost your well being far too much...
Its not you...after 18 years of trying to have a marriage..I have accepted the fact mine and yours would have treated any woman the way they treat us... its not you its them..forgive yourself its the first step to healing...you no more could have seen this coming than knowing a sniper had you in his cross hairs...most dont till they feel the bullet. Take care of you.... been there hug...heck still there we have 3 kids. I didn't figure it out till year 16....that was a heck of a lesson 16 years...
@@pirateheart21 thanks so much 😊😊😊
Eventually I strongly feel I don't need him in anyway. Love dies!
U are right I feel I hv a child to deal with at home
@@ashleysays3389 when helping him financially he said the amount of money is nothing great so no gratitude n ungrateful
Narcissists claim before others interested in them having many friends. And yet when they seriously need someone you don't see their friends. You don't even see their family.
True, I told him so in the very beginning. Then he tried to fake it. So I helped him getting better in pretending to be a normal person in the beginning.. He has no friends, he only has victims, people he exploits in some way or another.
That would make sense why they always seem to come back around after abuse and abandonment as if nothing meaningful or traumatizing really occurred or could have affected you. In their mind, nothing worth anything really happened since it was just childish testing of parental devotion.
Amazingly stated!!
Dear Prof. Vaknin, if you've ever considered giving up creating content on RUclips, please don't. I believe that your information, specifically this video that gives a detailed insight into a narcissist's mind, literally saved me from a nervous breakdown. Because I was forewarned by you how to handle a 180 turn in his behaviour, I could relatively easily deflect his abuse and be genuinely unaffected by his manipulation. Without your knowledge it would have been impossible. I avoided a lot of pain and confusion due to your content and information alone. I'll be forever grateful, thank you.
How lucky you were. If only I had a tiny sliver of this invaluable knowledge, as I was going g through my relationship. The "180" turn was as if someone had shot me in the face, at close range, the pain was so intense se.
@@janjones2629 From being their closest pet and confidante to them hating you with a vengeance and you spend 24 hours worrying what you've done wrong and what if you'd behaved differently? Incredible torture and pain. Been there, seems unlikely but the anxiety will go away. I just see them as a regular narcissist now, all their charm and kindness is posing and an act. There are other people out there who genuinely care, you will meet them eventually.
@@janeway73 Thank you so much. It's coming up on 3 months now, and, you're right, the emotional feelings are changing (for the better), and I am wondering how I allowed myself to dwell on such a clearly damaged human. BTW: I know I am a smarter, more educated person now as I have recently come across not one, but two individuals that have attempted to enter my social and personal space. Their classic narc behavior was recognizable from the jump. So attentive, so charming, so filled with emotion (and I barely even knew these individuals.....) I shut it down quickly, and didn't even blink an eye. Next! Knowledge truly is power, and the return to sanity.
@@janjones2629 Yes, and how excessive they are with gifts at the beginning and how they seem to draw you into their private space straight away, it's shocking how quickly they "like you". Telltale signs indeed. Good on you to keep away from them now. It's a relief and you regain your sanity the moment you get out,, isn't it? 😊
Spot on as always. Giving = you owe me everything.
His statements at custody trial were ALL this, naming one thing after another what he did for his wife, his children. For normal people, these things would be just responsible things that a husband and father would do, nothing heroic or extraordinary, but they are magnanimous according to him.
@@brainboosterrva2320 That makes me laugh!! Spot on!
Dr
Hey Brain poster yes! My daughter's abusive narc husband came home like a conquering hero because he'd bought some Cat Food.....! Yes, cat food. Usually another expense left for her to pick up. It would be funny if he wasn't such a destructive husband/father
I’m 29:58 female narcissist. I did all these things and was totally unaware. I was always shocked to experience rejection from my partners whom I had treated so badly. Their eventual rejection was like death to me. You are the first and only person to explain this to me. I’m 67 and spent my whole life like this.
My narcissist said after admitting to his cheating "are you going to divorce me over this!. Can't you just get over it."
The abusive malignant narcissist I was married to grew up in a narcissistic family with a highly verbally and physically abusive cheating dad as their sadistic leader and his abuse became normalized.
History repeated itself in my ex as he became the carbon copy twin of his evil dad
Same here sister. And if you take them back they get worse. The abuse is just too much. I'm finally free now . And it's a good feeling. Leave them and never look back. I almost got killed a few times. Stay safe and happy.
Very much true
This is very much true
Same here. Weirdly he told me how horrible he was treated as a child by this man…that calls a father…🤦🏻♀️
Same here. He had the nerve to tell me" you make me be just like my father and I hated him so much" . Sick people
Gaslighting to me is the absolute worst mental abuse I've been through. I can feel my energy shift so low after trying to convince my spouse I'm not crazy. I hate it so much. I've just begun completely walking away from conversations.
@Hughes SignCo Until I found Professor Sam Vaknin, I had no idea my afflicted Mother's condition had a name. Then, after binge watching his educational videos, I finally had peace. Not only did her condition have a name, there were tactics and tools I could use to navigate my way through decades of an endless journey. Unfortunately, I had to choose "No Contact" the last few years of her life. I did hold both of her hands, non stop, for over 24 hours as she was dying. She was very aware I was present. She is FINALLY at peace, I'm still working on it and getting there. I do continue to study NPD and remain eternally grateful to Sam Vaknin. Good luck in your endeavors. Knowledge, truly is powerful.
Same. F them.
Incredibly spot on. In my case I don’t have daddy issues (like all his exes) but abandonment issues which kept me trying to make it work. I definitely did feel motherly towards him in the end and yup, zero sex. So glad it’s over and I am finally moving on with my life! Finally I found peace. Enough with the rollercoaster ride
I believe I’m the same. I learnt a bit quicker in my last relationship. I protected my self a lot more.
They all want a caretaker, and to give nothing back. The sex which is usually sporadic even at the start, just vanishes as they use it as a weapon. This video explains the transition so well the two narc men i was with walked me thru! They both had abusive inconsistant mothers who took many lovers after violent divorces from their dads... co incidence? No!
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Spot on. Rollercoaster ride through barbed wire, non-stop. And yet, somehow, you stay because you want to. Until the moment you wake up.
Wow, my story is so much as yours. I'm glad is all over ,,and can start finding who I was before him.
The narc I dated continously blamed me each time we broke up. I kept going back because I always felt bad for his abusive childhood. But enough is enough and I got tired of the break up and bad behavior. No contact for me now.
@@nabilc1667 thanks my friend🙂
It’s draining, dark, cold, weird. It came to the point I was worried about my safety. That’s when I left him AGAIN for the 5th and final time. I’m not going back. I suffered in silence for 15 years because I didn’t want to ruin his reputation as a barber. But each time I went back to him he got worse. Thank you Mr Vaknin. You have educated me on this disease and I’m currently healing. I thank you with all of my heart because you shed light in a way that gives me hope and saved my life. Because I was dying slowly inside with the husband. Now I can start my healing journey.
Amazing take on the dynamics of my relationship with my ex. The saddest part is when l could no longer take the devaluing....breadcrumbing....and inevitable end to the relationship and decided to go no contact.
His famous last words, "I don't blame you." Heartbreaking! 💔
He gives, you accept but you didn't see the attached price tag, terms of agreement and the limited liability clause. He gives, you accept and you now, unbeknownst to yourself, have signed the forever i.o.u. I hold said documents from my father (since I was two) and ex narc I was with for 17 years. Eleven years later the tethers are still in place. So I come here, repeatedly, to Sam Vaknin, for a pep talk and validation.
Yup yup yup. I heard it all 34 years of marriage, "Why won't you forget, why won't you forgive?" He had the gall to say these things while shaking his fists in my face, barely 30 minutes after his verbal, emotional, physical abuses. He was the most selfish person I knew.
This is so perfectly exactly described how it "works" it is so true. Also the father/son part especially about being a mother or a daughter, there is nòthing there to feel like a woman...so absent so fully negclecting, lack of love, intimacy, sex, attention, only abuse, violation, manipulation, rejection. He was nòt there as an emotionaly vulnerable strong man.
Withholding sex and intimacy was the most strange expierence.
No wonder he treats me like a child disciplining n scolding me often over little things n sometimes unnecessarily! Everything I did was not gd enough!
And now we understand!
@@emiuygun9718 z
My ex always told me I reminded him of his mother..and he told me he hated his mother. He also did try to father me...weirdest thing ever. Could never be a partner with me..told me he was incapable of loving anyone..not even his own child.
That is saad to be once.
Omg. I don't know what to say. Your content is amazing. This should be taught in college or even in high school so before anyone gets into a commited relationship, they have had some level of self realization and self discovery and are ready for their journey as an evolved individual self.
Yes Educate...please! The only prevention is knowledge. Narc abuse is not what people sign up for when they, at free will enter into a relationship having believed the lie they are sold. Red flags aren't red, maybe not even flags when you have no knowledge as to what you are being warned of. And so, red flags are not picked up on and used to protect oneself. We must educate as it is the only way we have to stop these predictors in their tracks.
Spot on Dr. Vaknin! I lived that insanity for 3.5 years. I was full-on barganing most of the time and he was full-on inflicting type two narcisistic abuse most of the time (totally minimizing it as "oh, I was angry, but I am good now!). There was peace only when I surrendered to playing the mother and taking care of him. By the end of it, I was on the edge of insanity and probably fully diagnosable as borderline. Now finally healed and sane(-ish) again. :)
I felt that way, too. Unless you lived it, no one understands this horror. I’m glad to here you’re free. 3.5 years is a long time. Best of luck to you!!
@@survivormom8894 As long as we are out, safe, and on our way to healing. :) Best of luck to you to too!
How much time it took you to be sane again ? I am glad u are back to yourself and happy
I have always equated abuse (anger) with love. My NPD mother has been the pattern for tolerating abuse that should never be tolerated. This is NOT love.
Giving was the common theme of my relationship - I took it for kindness........
Marc’s feelings are so precious compared to others (according to you).... Just more of the same. Surprise, surprise, non-narcs don’t know how to do better either., feel fear, and try to avoid being hurt/rejected too. Do you understand that?
P0
Pro Vaknin, relationship with narcissist is tiring, they want you to chase them, and then they will start the mind game if you follow what they tells you.
I’ve experienced this type of person before I have two children with him. 13 years together. What you’re explaining I understand thoroughly. I learned to understand why he acted the way he did in regards to the neglect he got from his mother. He never expressed it, they don’t talk about the painful neglect and abandonment from their childhood. I wish they had the ability to process it and heal from it.
Astoundingly represents the dynamic between my child man and myself. Incredible
I think back to a conversation he had w/me about his decision to choose his wife, when he was in his 30's: "I saw her one day, talking to a group of small children, she was so good at handling them, so loving, so organized". "I thought to myself, she will make such a great Mother!" "I relentlessly pursued her, until she finally married me". Not once, did he talk about her as a woman he loved, as an individual, a female with her own identity. Just wanted somebody to fill her role as "a good mother". It all makes sense now.
The absolute irony is that she ended up leaving him AND walking out on their own young children, and married another WOMAN. Just an absolute shit show. I now know I have dodged a mentally ill bullet..... I am free....
Also Jesus said “first remove the plank from your own eye to remove the speck from someone else’s eye”... in other words you can’t help anyone to look after themselves if you don’t look after yourself. 😉
So true
True
I have been listening to you for many years. You have helped me survive narcissist abuse by giving me a true understanding of the disorder. You speak to my experiences with my narcissistic spouse. This is one of your most profound videos, I have gained an even greater understanding of this dynamic that I am in. Thank you so much!
42:00 My experience exactly. After many years of narcissistic abuse, I felt single. He was my babysitter.
Did you feel that he enjoyed with you the things that he liked but when you wanted something he would either reject it or belittle it? Mine likes theme parks but I begged all these years for him to walk with me on the beach and he simply refused saying he doesn’t like the beach. It’s his way or I end up doing things alone.
@@OlympianVenus Narcissists do not enjoy anything themselves, as they do not have a self. Yours doesn't like theme parks. The person he is impersonating likes theme parks. He's not rejecting the things you like. He's training you to not like anything at all, like himself. Continue to enjoy the things you like, with or without him.
During the grooming phase my ex would exhort me to put on a mask as to “kill people with kindness”. Little did I realize the many red flags. This was just part of her family’s MO.
Yikes.
The amount of brain damage two narcissistic parent can have is unfathomable. I wander into rooms and forget what I'm doing everyday because of the gas lighting and encouraged misremembering. I have a flat affect and struggle to show emotion out of fear of an invisible threat, even when I show my emotions when I'm alone myself. It feels like the world is always leaping out at me to kill me and I don't know how to calm my brain down. I struggle to produce words and sentences because being aloof and infantile was seen as "cute" to my parents. I can't even talk to my brother without triggering flashbacks in the both of us, we abuse each other in an autopilot state and our brains are left wondering (wtf just happened) every time we hint towards our trauma. I can't even help my brother through this because help leads to abusing him, the only ray of hope is my therapist and the medication I'm taking and these videos. I literally don't know how I'm going to keep a job or form any relationship because of how emotionally unavailable I am, and how twisted my morality is. I'm doing self-talk and trying to love myself and boost my self-esteem by doing things I like and am good at when I feel like it, but it feels so fake and plastic that It reminds me of my parents "encouragement". I made a vow to myself to never have kids, I don't want to risk another generation of sadists and mentally ill. I just want to be like everyone else, I'm tired of feeling like an alien sock puppet of a human being, all I want is organic kindness towards myself and others.
See if you can find someone who knows and understands WHITE Dianetics.
You have engrams.... psych calls it PTSD. But you can be healed if you find the right person who can work with you.
This is hard my beloved husband call me mummy I do love him he is cover narcissistic I have 4 children’s every time I love and neutered my children’s he get rage and anger for me keep saying to I older child in the house why can you do the same thing to me love ❤️ me like your children’s. can anyone help me
I'm with you re the organic kindness, if only! It's a recipe for disaster. Hopefully, all this suffering is not in vain. Finding this guy has been a revelation.
Wow. This hit me so hard. You are not alone...
This poignantly answers the reasons for so many peculiar , unwarranted behaviors . He doesn’t like to give or get gifts , and was either a child or a task master , never a true /equal mate , or real father to his kids . And he doesn’t realize anything .
And he’s not the only one in my earlier life .
Yes I was an orphan a father was absent from my life! No wonder he picked me.
My narc would withhold sex and stonewall while simultaneously holding onto exes and leaving me periodically for others, all while lying about it, of course. I’m not sure which category he fits.
Well there’s only one category for those creatures: soulless assholes.
Mine did the exact same thing. I ended up leaving her and within a couple of weeks she kept reaching out and we ended up talking about perhaps trying again living separately and then once she had her other ex back in her life she started saying that she didn’t want to be in a relationship just casual encounters while we see where it goes and finally a few days ago she made a huge deal of absolutely nothing which had me so confused and then said she was blocking me cause she doesn’t want to see me ever again. It feels like she just reached out to me to make me fall for her again and then leave me destroyed as revenge cause I left 4 months ago. I hate the power she has over me that makes me feel so lost and destroyed.
Yes, they never let go of exes if the exes allow it because of their difficulty to detach. It is part of the disorder and so painful to those of us who recognize this. They will deceive and lie about it even if it’s an emotional affair. They grave validation. I can’t believe these exes haven’t awaken to who this person really is like we have.
The Narc I knew , he could not get me sexually but insisted on being friends ( i think he fits Celebral Narc very well ) his love bombing faze was out of these world - must say . He insisted and offered me to work for him despite me not having any experience I the field he was in . He Is master of withholding anything if I state what I want and doing everything opposite . Currently he is punishing me with silent treatment as I had ignored his attention . Little does he knows I can see through all his actions . Thank you Sam you explain very well and all of it makes so much sense .
@@mangalpal8921 I was upfront and honest that I did not liked him that way . How can I withhold sex if I did not wanted it with him in the first place . Your comment does not make sense .
I've had a couple relationships where the woman does this to me with regards to withholding/removing things. It still boggles my mind that if I would compliment something or say I like or what something, it was never to happen or be seen again. A shirt i thought was cool and looked great on her? Gone. The ring on her finger, that I would sometimes play with while we held hands. Gone. She started that she learned sex is a very important part of a connection in a relationship for me. Gone or withheld and controlled. The list goes on. It's so weird.
Brilliant! This explains the hostility I have experienced in the recent past in giving to my mother. Strange. When I do not offer kindness to her, shut her out or rail at her she seems satisfied and calmed. Bizarre.
Maybe this is why the narcissist person (I was having a roller coaster relationship with) had his paranoid-like state of mind that "everyone is out to get him". He reported that many times to me. But didn't had any proof that anyone had bad intentions.
Actually he was treating me without any respect so many times, like his father mistreated his own mother. His mother is a nice, humble woman and cared for him, loved him. Whatever he said about his mother was caring and loving. But he repeatedly told me she was tolerating the abuse of her own husband. And he can not respect her because she is weak. For him, being kind and caring was being weak!!!
He told me, one time during our relationship, that while visiting his parents he suddenly realized that she (his mother) wasn't weak, but suffering his fathers behavior without complaining once and he felt her PAIN for the first time. He said, he broke down at home and "cried like a baby" bc he could feel the pain of his mother (he always said he loved his mom but has zero respect for her!). He claimed that he changed his mind and his mom was strong.
I thought it was a breaking through in his development. No way.
It was a short moment and then he was back to "normal", disrespected his mother for hours on the phone and treated me without respect again.
I left him with the words "stop complaining about your father, you choose to become like him and you miscalculated me being her, I won't stay and I will complain and confront you with your misbehavior!"
I don't think that he understood.
My analysis:
In his own life, it wasn't the mother, it was his narcissist /borderline very successful father and everyone else was scared of his temper tantrums and tried to stay under the radar. His father was more loving to anyone else outside of the core family. That left a huge scar on his soul. Father's can crush the self-worth of a child. He is a vulnerable narcissist. Always the victim, yet has unrelenting standards and doesn't now how to respect a woman. After I left him he even wrote me his mindset with me "I love you but made you lower your self-respect and in public"
The problem is that he was lying about me in front of others when he was angry about me. He once stated that to me, asking me "why am I doing this? I tell lies about you just out of anger!". I told him that I am not interested in this question. He needs professional help and I am not his therapist. And he either goes or I don't come back. I confronted him that I am not interested in his why. That he is telling lies about me just because of his anger is a no go. And it's his bloody responsibility to solve his problems.
He refused to seek professional help, hence I left and refused to go back.
He wrote me that he loves me more than I do and that I know that . Lol.
I don't know in what universe he is in, but it's obviously not based in reality.
I said, it is not what he says, it's in his actions. And the way he treats me is neither stable nor respectful nor caring.
And I have zero daddy issues. Actually I was having a hard time with my own mom. And my mom had daddy issues because her father died when she was a toddler.
My mom hated me for having a loving relationship with my own father and I ended up in a relationship with a guy, who envied me having a good relationship with my own father and hence a good sense of self-worth. Fathers are very important in developing self-worth. I figured that out now
I can relate somewhat. Both of his parents were dead. He was older, in late 60s. From what I learned his father was narcissistic (my view), had high expectations, verbally abused his mother, cheated on his mother when she could no longer have sex due to her illness. It caused massive turmoil in the household. He also learned that his Father had wanted him to be a girl because parents had lost a daughter years before. I think he saw how anger controlled his Mother. His father moved out (not divorce) when he was 15 and he had to be mediator between Mom & Dad and take care of Mom. At times, I could see he had a love/hate relationship with his Mother and even women in general and really disliked his Father for many things.
I think all of this created his disorder. It explains his high need for control, superiority, arrogance, his ambivalence toward women and relationship, and his struggle with monogamy.
Wow. This is the most profound insight I have ever heard... absolutely mind blowing. Could this finally be the answer to why I absolutely can not recieve? Why the only relationships I allow are one's in which I am the "giver"? Why "gift giving" is my love language?
Thank Dr. Vaknin. So enlightening. No I have a better understanding of what I’m currently living through. My thoughts are right. It’s time to go, before I waste more time. I’ve been with this person for 22 years😢
You are such a brilliant man! The way you explain this topic is no other like on the internet and unbelievably accurate in every aspect of it. Unbelievable!!!
My ex partener first he potrayed himself to me as a strong man "a father figure" after he became a child from every point of view, at every big fight he was again returning to "father figure" until he was securing the fact that i dont leave. When I decided to leave him one of the many reasons was of course the fact that he is childish beside all the other things. Our sex life was mostly non existent, if we had intimacy he always didnt put any effort, he just layed on his back, he was always having a problem to kiss me or french kiss me, he was always avoiding that or if he did it i was always catching him wiping his mouth, at a moment we had a period when we stood at distance and he was sharing me thru texting a lot of fantasies and when we met face to face he was doing the same thing no effort, was very frustrating and humiliating. After i went in therapy and found out about the narcissism and I started researching more and more I found all the answers to my questions.
B B -- THANK YOU so much for your comment !! You have helped me more than I could explain.
I have experienced the same things as you. Except my husband is both a child and an old woman instead of being a child and a father.
Which is interesting considering that his dad has admitted to being gay and he has always taken care of the housework and cooking in the home.
So that just proves Sam Vaknin right because that was my husband's version of a "father".
1. “I’m not lovable”! 2. “Everything is transactional”! This is almost exactly what he said “Nobody wants me!” The litmus test equaled for him to vacate the abysmal premises!
I've hears these words many times....sadly, I remember saying them many times, myself.
I think my ex equated gift giving with love, but not that it entitled him to abuse but to be in control.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
I think that's the problem. They don't love themselves so can't love their wives (partners) or anyone else even their children.
@@daviedood2503 Same difference..?
It all makes sense now again and again. I lived in a pure madness...
Thank you, Sir! This is very helpful. Everything made sense to me now. Bless your channel and you may continue to share awareness in order to save others, like you have saved me from further damage. By the way, I have suffered in silence for over 20yrs. I have forgiven him and I am moving on.... self-love is the only key.
Dear Prof Sam Vaknin! You helped me to understand the fenomenon of the constantly occuring doubble standards in such relationships. Thank you for this and for the many other videos! Please keep creating more content, if you find time for it.
I had a great father and my ex tried to convince the world that he was just like my dad. He tricked me. I thought I had married my dad. What a complete crock. He is nothing like my father - my father would never lie cheat or be a hypocrite. My father’s priority was his wife and children. My ex’s priority was himself who used his wife and kids to make himself look like the great family guy that he wasn’t He wanted the world to believe he had the integrity of his father in law. He used my credibility for his own advancement while lying and cheating and being nothing like the man he contended was his role model
WOW - nothing spells it out more clearly, Dr. Vaknin! And you were the first i found online about 13/14 years ago before even the word narcissist became the vernacular. although my father & i eventually had a beautiful relationship, i've wound up in at least 3 narc relationships, and continues. i think it must be in my blood by now after 40+ years of playing/living with narcs. i'd be great to experience a real man, but i wouldn't even know how to be ... on the bright side, they don't disturb my equilibrium & i'm used to not having my needs met, so there's that. maybe i need the help more than they.??
Wow, I really needed this video. It explains so much. Thank you
I've just watched this to the end & it is absolutely amazing how you have described exactly what happened. Becuase I'm a guy I switched the he to she when I became so when she changed into the child and the massive temper ranting and tantrums & then the sex stopped, its identical to what happened. I remember when I asked her why she wasn't interested in sex anymore (she would say as we went to bed 'no sex tonight', or when I went downstairs to make coffee and bring it back to the bedroom 'no sex this morning') she said that her previous boyfriends had all called her frigid. I couldn't believe that as she was extremely sexual in the 1st 3 months, but now I'm starting to understand. tks for putting this on tube. Russell
Absolutely spot on and such an eye opener and an ahhhh haaaa moment. Thank you so much for this., 🙏🙏
The way it is sir..you went to the depth of the cause and effect!
Awesome sauce.
Thanks for your fascinating insight and for sharing your knowledge, I found it really helpful to understand the shifting dynamics involved. I watched this one several times it makes a lot of sense to me and I'm sure I am not alone!
I don't understand why the narcissist is okay with doing to others the exact things that they are terrified of. It makes it hard to sympathize and or forgive them.
Thank you very much Dr. Sam Vaknin
holy shit, this is a spot on profile of my husband. One thing I never made the connection of till now: when we're out in public, he'll act like a joker but an embarrassing one as he knows I have social anxiety and hate attention drawn to me. Then I chastise him or ask him to stop or give him signs that he's annoying. he knows how I'm gonna react but then plays victim and pouts ("I just wanted to have a good time out shooting the shit with my wife like we used to when we first got together, now you're NO FUN and have a constant stick up your ass, I never get a day off often and we rarely go out, thanks for being yourself and ruining our day whenever I'm trying to just have a good time and cut back since I work 80 hours a week -rants about how I don't appreciate him bc I'm a stay at home mom who doesn't understand how hard he works and how he suffers so much to give me the world while he's treated AS LESS THAN HUMAN, UGH sorry if I changed from first to third person. but you catch the drift.
at the end of every argument almost, he'll put it on me "you need to decide if you want a 50/50 relationship with me", he'll always put the onus of change on me to prove my devotion more, it's never what he could change or acknowledge.
omg he is a cerebral narcissist. it's insane, he is hyper loyal, I'm very confident he's faithful, he hasn't assaulted me but has restrained me in fights to keep me from leaving. he will withhold the kids if I insist on a couple hour breather. later he'll vulnerably explain he's terrifird of me leaving with the kids. I'm like you know that's really irrational? I wouldn't do that, I've never done such a thing.
he'll ALWAYS bring up brief separations earlier in our relationship, over a decade ago, to guilt trip me. i haven't been intimate with anyone else, especially another man, since we got together 13 years ago when I was 19. He pulls off the caring no limits of devotion father very well, he can be very reassuring and affectionate and complimentary. I had an emotionally absent father post puberty but he was a reliable dad however would use material to show love and inflict punishment.
I always thought it was me who had an aversion to sex during prolonged tantrum periods. but there are other times that it's often and definitive during those periods.
he'll berate me like a father .. omfg. this is too spot on. it's insane how hurtful he can be when he's a tyrannical father. he sees me as a troubled child who is just acting out to spite him. I couldn't cheat, the very thought terrifies me. I have betrayed him in regards to drug use and I've fucked up many times by being distant. he always complains about always having ear buds in. I know I need to keep them out around him but he'll find something if he's in a bad mood so I just tune it out and let him pout in the next room to ignore how he's blaming me in front of the kids by ranting about me. he'll always justify fighting with me in front of them bc they aren't scared of him even when he's mad. he's just delusional sometimes but I do what I can to deprive his flame of oxygen by acting indifferent till he stomps off and we have a relaxed atmosphere again.
he emotionally abandoned me for months and insinuated he wanted a loveless marriage for the kids when I was 37 weeks pregnant with our third baby. I can't even begin to explain how devastating this was for me. he did eventually show remorse but his breakdown was worse than what he did to me and how I wasn't there for him. how can you even be there for someone who turns everything you say into a complaint when they're only suggestions? but yeah, he eventually reconciled with me within a few months. But I was very scared as he never said anything like that prior, as he said he was done. it was just really lonely as I had my baby in the summer of 2020. I was even more isolated and overwhelmed from the older 2 at home all the time too. Eventually it cumulated to a breakdown that he will mock in arguments now. He'll say he's treated as a SUBHUMAN but I never bring up his childhood shit, his breakdowns, or how he's a tyrant like his dad unless he really pushes me and I'm angry vs defeated. he eventually breaks me down and I just concede. I'm definitely not an easy person to be with. I want my physical environment a certain way and I'm a control freak when it comes to being and to retreat to my own inner world. I also like complex psychological concepts and just have an extended vocabulary, decent writing skills. him, not so much. he'll accuse me of being a snob just for showing intelligence then accuse me of acting superior and he's right. it's a defense mechanism as I don't do it outside of tension.
@Sam Vakhnin, I wanted to say you are genious, but you already know that ;) Best video on the subject I have ever watched.
Wow... just wow. I have no other words.♥️ Thank you.
It was only after experiencing and then escaping a shared fantasy with a cerebral narcissist that I began to accept that there is no way to see my parents the way I saw them for so many years - and what I saw wasn’t really pleasant.
The lack of self love which is rapidly, intensively fulfilled in the first phase of the shared fantasy is the only moment in our lives where we have the illusion of having self love.
So it is a very hard way to acquire self love after that, because when the narcissist is gone you remain completely alone with you own incapacity of self love and you’re sometimes tempted to think that it was better being in an on-off relationship with nothing more than that, because your life was designed from your daddy (and a condescending mother) to be like that, so it is familiar and somehow save.
Perhaps there will be a way to develop self love by escaping the relationship with your parents the same way you escaped the narcissist by beginning with grey rock communication etc
Watch my vid about self-love.
Sam Vaknin thank you!
This...
Best explanation, thank you!
Oh my…. You have once again nailed it…
My ex stopped having sex and blames it on me as I was a “sex” addict…
He had temper tantrums… and interestingly worshipped his daughter..
I asked once about his mother hurting him snd he exposed the wound….
Not saying I am without wounds… I had a narcissistic father… so I’m sure this compounded our interactions….
We are divorced…. I’m in therapy …
He is silent…..
Mine didn't want to have sex, he claimed i work hard, I must be really tired. I used to believe him as well when he used to say his mum loves his brother more than him, all the time he used to go on about it and I believed him for years, until the discard when I then learnt about narcissism it all made sense. I am still trauma bond, and in therapy too, 8 weeks gone now, heard he remarry, don't know how, I am still married to him.
During the silent treatment, I used to retaliate why can't we not talk about this, I shouted and have ago at him didn't realise he was recording me, so after the discard he showed everyone the videos, they all believed I abused him and they helped him financially.
I don't have enough space to even share all the the stuff around sex (or lack of sex) from my relationship. I am trying to use it as comic relief now, but it hurt very very deeply.
Thank You Sam
Spent 20 years figuring this out.
Sam! THANK YOU
Wonderful, thanks
Brilliant, thank you
Thank you!
So true, my father is a narcisist..
This is gold
Five years with a narcissistic sociopath.
Thought I was going to lose my Fecking mind.
Been over five years since we split.
He "attempted" to hover for a year but I rejected all ways of him trying to communicate.
He thought when my brother died he would get me at a time of weakness, nope!
Five years single now and don't miss the relationship trials and tribulations. This world is a mess. Men are a hot mess, women are a hot mess on steroids....yep, I'm alone...but not lonely at all.
The sound of silence is beautiful to me.
Wow Prof Sam you express do eloquently what becomes revelatory clarification. Innevervysed the word "absence" in the narc personality make-up.
My ex narcissistic boyfriend was calling me his daughter. I asked him why are you calling me you daughter and he never responded me. We had 12 years difference.
When I first met my ex he was a father figure. I didn't realize it at the time, I was busy being spoiled and taken care of. It didn't take long for the sweet little boy to come out. Oh how I loved him. We had so much fun together. The man was mid 50s but it was like we were teenagers again. He did bring the abuse in. It was subtle. I didn't realize it. On our first phone call together he was watching porn. Every conversation we had somehow another woman would be brought up. I don't know if it's abuse, if he was trying to make me feel bad about myself or if he was just a creep. He rejected me sexually from the beginning. I was so attracted to him. He didn't seem to share the same excitement for me. After a couple weeks I got tired of hearing about other women, of him ogling. I lost it and told him I don't want to hear it anymore. He bought me so many gifts, paid for everything. He is always giving gifts to people. I know it's so they like him to make up for his lack of personality. I never wanted to hurt him. I did not cheat on him. Though he wanted me to. He switched between being a little boy to a disciplinarian father. I felt like my teen years of trying to prove I wasn't a loser or worthless to my father. I acted almost the same way I did arguing with my dad as a teen. I wish I had these videos when we were still together, I would have been able to deal with him. We would still be together.
My ex behave just like a child, he aways find single moms to suply him in that way.
Dear sir, you have put into words that which I could not articulate. Thank you from the entirety of my heart.
Whenever he takes me shopping, I’ve noticed the pattern-he’s awful. I stand up for myself, and he calls me an ungrateful bitch. I thought, “So I’m supposed to stand here while he pummels me with his negative poison at the top of lungs…”
Yes! Then, I could show gratitude.
I’ve asked how to show gratitude. I’ve asked him the above-he trails off into his own head.
I am in a unique situation where I can observe him as well as his mother. Whoaaa!
תודה רבה🙏
💯% spot on
Omg @ 44.42 this is so true. Ive noticed this but never thought to speak on it. It's so amazing to me how unique these mechanisms are to NPD. Mr Vaknin do you have a link for the video you're referring to about that topic? No luck searching by those terms.
Eyes. Open. Wide.
It is a very sad situation. It’s sad that they are incapable of a level of awareness to their own condition. It’s sad to me that they have no experience with real love and relationships.
This shit will drive you crazy 🙄 I finally got freedom when the narcissist ran off with an ex or new supply I'm not sure witch one?🤔 Who ever he ghosted me for was heaven sent!!!! Never want to see that monster 💀💀👹 again never going back !!! No one else will ever treat me like that again and I stay and put up with it !!!!! I'm free and I getting better and calming down more everyday!! And my blood pressure has went down 👎 . Prayers to everyone out there going through this get out and stay out!!!!🙏🙏
Beyond brilliant 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏👌👌👌💖💖💖
Abuse does not equal love. Wow, just wow, and not in a good way.
Haaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaa haaaaaaaa omg lololololololol like. Verbatum. Thanks dude. Doing psychology jui jitsu this past year and this im just having so many hah ah hah moments here.
How often did my mother, a dangerous narcissistic rager, beat the hell out of me "for (my) own good," of course, beginning early in childhood and for a minor infraction like a messy sock drawer.
Sam, he discarded me without closure then started sending me videos of his achievement, but never called however, if I ask him to call he calls but not a virtual call as he used to!
It was painful to me so I blocked him! His reaction was so aggressive!
He didn’t tell me anything or give excuses..
I don’t know did I cause him mortification or just narcissistic injury!
How do you protect a child from a man like this? Especially going trough the court hearings etc? I am devastated...child needs the father I know but this scares me as I don't want my son to end up like him...
By doing your homework and searching this channel. Preferably before you bother everyone.
Just leave. Far away... even if you lose money. If he has to give you something , in his eyes you own him and thats gonna be a hell.
@ManifestBella I have finalised all now and I am in my home with my son and I got most of the money from the house sale .... this is it now I am free from narc thank goodness for that
Good for you
@@vinyl8134 I have a very good solicitor here in the UK regarding child matter. .. children also have the rights and have the say in this and in this country they can open their own case at the age of 10 which is now...I am primarily career and we talked about it all.. he has decided that if pestering continues he will open his own case and of course I will support him all the way... children have legal aid funded by government and it would be no cost to me either... not like divorce and the rest of my case of 30k...
After a while I became his mother always be was saying you are like a mother to me n you are a good mother to your three children when I thought you were a party girl as he cried looking at my window
Dear Dr Vaknin
Does this apply to the covert narcissist too?
Is he also a child?
Please kindly reply 😊
Yes.
Also, please discuss the military man (like a general, my ex) who cannot integrate healthily. Projects his shortcomings onto me, expects me to anticipate his needs, cool as a cucumber compartmentalizes emotional responses.
I left him over his childish, repressed attitude about sex. I even wondered if he was gay. I loved him but he conned me in return. NC now.
Days into your videos and they are still as shocking. I love him so I appreciate the advice on how to keep him happy. I’m also a masochist in every way so maybe we’re kind of perfect for each other?🤞
Good day. Thank you for your videos. Very very helpful. I was dating narcissist (my conclusion) for 4 years. You say here giving for him is right to abuse. There is one episode which doesn’t give me sleep: he helped me with an amount of money for my needs, after 3,5 years of our relationship. It was a present. Big part of it I spent for the education of my son. This was my need at the moment. When he found out this, he took it very very bad. He broke up with me shortly after, and said this episode was a major reason. My question is: what made him so mad? Thank you so much for the comment. Best Regards
Ask him. How would I know? If I gave YOU money and you spent it on someone else, I would be pissed off, too. You should at least have informed him of your intentions.
He actually said I can spend it on anything I want. On my needs. I don’t get why my child became as issue.
Thank you for your time.
100% u were expected to spend that $$ on cosmetic surgery, a nice gift for him (watch, tires, etc), and then, books for your son can be justified.
Very sad really
Dr. Vaknin, first, thank you for this amazing video. One clarification question: if the somatic narcissist is turned on by incest (based on the recent shared fantasy video), why does the relationship still end up sexless (both in the child and in the father/bargaining stage)?
Thank you very much.
Because the woman “fails” his tests: she is a mother still, but a dead mother. Incest is rewarding only when the relationship with the maternal object is whole and functioning.
Sam Vaknin thanks. You mean...distorted and dysfunctional.