Narcissist FEARS YOUR LOVE, Intimacy: Perfectionism, Envy, Hate
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- Опубликовано: 24 янв 2021
- Perfectionism has several psychodynamic components: grandiose infallibility, fear of failure, procrastination-avoidance, passive-aggressive sadism, people-pleasing (I can be loved only if and when I am perfect).
Narcissist can idealize only internal objects - hence snapshotting. Why? Because his grandiosity requires that he idealizes only himself and internalizing an external objects makes it a part of himself, his extension. This is co-idealization.
The idealized internal objects must be perfect - hence perfectionism. Others, out of envy, spite, malice, or self-interested ulterior motives conspire to render the internal objects less than perfect (aggression) or expose their imperfections (passive-aggression).
The snapshots must also be perfect, so they are photoshopped.
But perfectionism sets the narcissist up for failure. It is self-defeating and ego dystonic. How come? It is intended to prevent destructive envy.
The narcissist has no core, so he experiences his internal objects as ego-alien. He is like a hive, ant colony, coalition, alliance, not unitary. His internal environment is regulated exclusively with negative emotions/affects such as shame, guilt, envy, anger, and hate. Narcissist not only hates himself, he is angry at himself, ashamed of himself - and envies himself!!!
Melanie Klein's three positions (baby's psychological progression)
1. Split bad (frustrating) object out there, good (gratifying) object in me
2. Depressive realization: everyone has both good and bad sides
3. Internalization of bad object and reparation: integration of both objects - good and bad - in single ego.
Sam Vaknin's three positions:
Normal, healthy progression
1. Split good object out there, bad object in me (mommy can’t be bad, it is too threatening)
2. Depressive position
3. Internalization of good object and reparation, single ego
Narcissist's maladaptive, disorganized, dysfunctional progression
Stage 3: instead of reparation, regression to paranoid-schizoid position (back to stage 1) and loop stages 1-2.
Jung was closest when he described pathological narcissism as failure of narcissistic investment in introversion.
The narcissist must deny the existence of any good outside himself.
The narcissist defends himself against raging, all consuming envy - by solipsistically claiming to be the only good object in the world.
This is an object that cannot be had by anyone, except the narcissist and, therefore, is immune to the narcissist's threatening, annihilating envy.
In order to refrain from being "owned" by anyone (and, thus, avoid self-destruction in the hands of his own envy), the narcissist reduces others to "non-entities" (the narcissistic solution), or completely avoids all meaningful contact with them (the schizoid solution).
The suppression of envy is at the core of the narcissist's being. If he fails to convince his self that he is the only good object in the universe, he is bound to be exposed to his own murderous envy. If there are others out there who are better than him, he envies them, he lashes out at them ferociously, uncontrollably, madly, hatefully and spitefully, he tries to eliminate them.
If someone tries to get emotionally intimate with the narcissist, she threatens the grandiose belief that no one but the narcissist can possess the good object (that is the narcissist himself).
Only the narcissist can own himself, have access to himself, possess himself. This is the only way to avoid seething envy and certain self-annihilation. Perhaps it is clearer now why narcissists react as raving madmen to anything, however minute, however remote that seems to threaten their grandiose fantasies, the only protective barrier between themselves and their lethal, seething envy.
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This amazes me: The fact that they prefer to frustrate themselves in order to avoid contentment of others. I used to say to my ex when we broke up: "I really wish you the best in life, to be very happy and find what you need". He replied: "I don't want to be happy if that is what you want for me. If it makes you happy that I'm happy, then I won't be happy. I don't want to be happy because of you". Extremely shocking their perverse way of thinking!!!
Haha 😂😅 - I can’t believe I what I just read. This can not be made up. These narcs are mad.xx
@@user-of9bx1uk3u They are ..........
Oh my God
Omg that’s such sick thinking! I can totally understand after being in a relationship with one though! I was much younger, so not as wise about the world unfortunately. But when you finally do break free from them they want nothing to do with you or literally anything that would remind them of you. They cut you with precision, and want you to know anything you are, they are the opposite. It’s so confusing for anyone who hasn’t experienced it.
@@fooled_twice4668 🤣🤣🤣
So the narcissists is ok with pretending they love you, but once they know they truly love you, that makes you good and by default they are now bad. This causes them to envy you, because there can only be one good person, and since they now feel bad cause there's a mutual love, they have to destroy you so they can become good again in their minds. Wow, this is so erroneous I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't in love with a narcissists for 4 years. (Ended horribly)
They never love You
Well said
No wonder I was so confused for so many years. I thought the more I loved him that our relationship would improve. I was so wrong. It's so hard for a normal person to understand this crap.
Your comment really sums up the whole deal of being around this type of person.
@@gaiaswildchildtarot yes! I have deteriorated my life, my attitude my looks I can't eat. I can't stand going to bed or waking up. I am falling behind at school. Everything is being literally stripped and all stays the same for him. He is PERFECT.
I could never understand these weird cycles in my marriage. It was surreal, like "how/why are we back HERE again?!" Our toxic relationship just kept cycling, never growing or developing. I was too young to know and youtube didn't exist back then ;)
Exactly how mine was. 13 years and I finally just got an apartment for my kids and myself and filling divorce.
It's like being haunted by a sense of evil in your life that they feel for you and unceasingly turn the tables of sanity and peace.
No U tube back then. I was in the beginning of a rough divorce.
Picked up Sam's book $47.
I was completely devastated, triggered, out of my mind, finding out that I was living a LIE, groomed by my Narc Family of Origin.
The Lord brought me out of it, only to now see the entire Country and World run by Narcissists.
We don't have much time left.
Repent and know God before it's too late. ✝️🙏❤️
Thank god for you tube now!
Have you tried to offend a narcissist and you feel like they don’t even react to the extent a ‘normal’ person would react! It’s like throwing an object at a wall but there’s nothing there and it just go’s into this emptiness! And doesn’t actually hit any walls or objects! I don’t know how I came to the ‘knowing’ or using my intuition a person was a narcissist but here’s my tips:
1. They tell you to change, constantly you are not perfect so it’s you that needs to make a change so you do and it’s still not good enough!
2. You feel emotionally and spiritually drained being around them,
3. They project all their shortcomings onto you and you start to believe you are their shortcomings ( There’s no real person it’s just excessive projections)
4. There’s no self awareness, and if you get an apology it’s fake and feels fake because the truth is a ‘normal’ person can see and hear you
5. Which brings me to my next point , they don’t see or hear you, you are constantly walking on eggshells because you are terrified of their reactions not in a way they would abuse you but in a way that they will slam the door on your face!
6. There is no intimacy like nothing and they can’t engage in any type of intimacy, they’re also good takers but not givers (In the beginning they give yeah)
7. The whole interaction feels false, it’s not based on intimacy and a real authentic connection! What is intimacy? “ I- See- Into - Me” but with narcissists you see into them!
8. There’s no you as a person, individual with their own needs! I remember wearing a different tradition clothes and I showed the narcissist and the response was “it’s not my type of clothes” you are literally there to serve them and their image. Blank point period.
9. You also realise they never learn and they do things repetitively to either hurt you deliberately or don’t see how they need to change ( they honestly can’t bring about the changes and when you make a request it’s just temporary and they go back to what they did to you before)
10. Maybe this is an overlap with psychopathy but they love causing you pain and their eyes glimmer with life when they see you crying and in pain seeing they caused it
There’s plenty more but that’s all for now.
Even when you serve them it's never enough...
TV
Great list ✍🏼
Wow si true!
You nailed it👏 After 21 months of the ex dragging out the divorce/settlement, we had mediation on Friday. Nearly there🥳 & everything you have to go through to get rid of them is all WORTH IT 👌
He had me at the Narcissist hates your guts! 😖
😂
Me too
It’s literally insanity. Pure and simple insanity.
Some people were damaged early on in a really bad way
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Look
Completely agree, it’s painful to be the victim ... it’s impossible to get out
Precisely. Insanity. 🎯
INSANITY all the way, pure & simple, very charismatic, when you meet them,
they would destroy you if you allow them to do it. Very sad individuals, NO CONTACT FOREVER
The man I loved, my husband, always told me he hated me. You are spot on. My divorce is spot on too, nearly completed.
Good for you Jane! I have such a sister, went no contact about 3 years ago...peace at last! I understand the hatred completely. All the best.
You poor dear. No wife should ever hear such words from her husband! 💔😭💔
He loved you that is because he said he hated you. To get it all clear in his own head. He envied you to protect his inner self.
@@KhassiaKyes, it is awful and sad😢😢.
Narcissists are never remorseful
The envy he had for me was unbelievable... and it really ramped up the more I gave love to him and control to him. I am out of this horror now, however, I am still healing and your explanations have helped me more than anyone! THANK YOU SIR!
@@Roberta_Esposito My husband actually told me he wanted to be me and then later said he just made that up.
I thought, there is no way anyone could make that up.
@@Roberta_EspositoI respect your bravery in telling the truth about what you did and also in realizing how it effected your wife.
I will pray for you and your wife. God is able to redeem all of us.
Congratulations. The strength you've gained will be your reward.
Isnt't it sad, the more love and control you give them the more they withdraw any emotion from you, so sad, I am with a covert
Omg you are so right. My ex Narc lived his life in a continuous loop. Constantly creating the same bad experiences from one person to the next. Once I realized the pattern he became quite predictable. Any attempt to get them off the loop and you are met with anger and violence and narcissistic rage.
Very late to this but it’s so helpful to read and really digest along the healing process. “Once I realized the pattern… any attempt to get them off the loop” just goes to show that they are living life without growth in mind- be it personal or spiritual or within their relationships with others. They don’t have a desire to grow or heal and no matter how much I might want to or try to, I can’t inspire that within them. Truly the best thing to do is to detach and grow in my own direction.
@@PotterPeople7yes, that is true what you are saying, they do not want to change, my covert told me, he is like he is and wants to stay like that 😢 not giving me validation, no compliments, thinking of leaving him
Yes, they waste our time big time. One wasted 3 years. I was very anxiius tired and very depressed. Awful experience and awful creature. Good riddance.
I’ve never heard another lecturer who has expanded my mind with the use of language that is so poetic, metaphorical and philosophical as you Sam! I relate so much to what you share, as I have many narc/borderline traits. It really helps me to understand myself and my subconscious actions/avoidances. Your lectures also empower me bc you stress the fact that the narcissist was created, it’s not their fault that their behaviors are deeply rooted defense mechanisms that exist to protect their fragile, damaged ego.
I completely believe the child bad/mommy good example because I witnessed an older narcissist ex always defended his mother who only gave conditional love. It was so sad to see a grown man who was truly still a child on the inside and having to walk away to save myself from them. Love these videos!
i agree. seeing grown men behave like children not as a joke, but it being their natural state is sad. sad that there's so many of them now. what are these types going to teach the next generation? to become like them?
The problem is not actually that the love was conditional. All love is, strictly speaking, conditional. Altruism and unconditionality are self-defeating paradoxes. The problem is perfectionism as a defence against ambivalence, just like Vaknin says on the video.
Envy is indeed the defining aspect of narcissism. The narcissist’s insecurities no know bounds. And as they get older, they get exponentially worse as the narcissist tries so hard to deny the humbling effects of age….I am still having an increasingly hard time understanding how they are all carbon copies of themselves….
Very deep and interesting study of narcissism. I've known a few of them in my lifetime and I can definitely agree that envy is a strong factor in their existence. They can love you and hate you at the same time however they only really love themselves.
We don't love ourselves, we don't even really know what love is. I equate love with familiarity, and even then my outlook on the world and people is completely transactional.
I always thought it was weird that my GF would constantly tell me how much she loves me, but the next minute saying how much she hates how nonchalant I am. Just because I'm always chill and calm, and she worries about every little thing.
@@ST-yc7ujYou are right on! And in the mean time they twist you up mentally bad. It males you suspicious of everyone in life. I have serious trust issues. However, I pray for a keen spirit of discernment and I'm learning to spot them right away and deal with them only if neccessary.
@@patrickfyall3536 Hi Patrica. Your ability to stay chill and calm in this crazy world is trully a gift. Cherish it and don't let anyone take that from you. A narcissistic will see that, hate that in you and alternately steal that from you. Part company with them ASAP. Be blessed..
@@powermovement247 🙏🏿. Preciate the kind words.
I was married to a man who was diagnosed with NPD. The best I could describe it was being with someone, an actual physical person, who fit the definition of a “residual haunting.”
Yes
And from a spiritual perspective, an NPC, non playable character, and/or energy vampire.
They certaily never needed to go to the hell, because they already live in there, during their lives.
The tragedy is that they constantly do the projection, so the victims have to do experience what the narcissist feeling inside.😢
Exactly....some of them ARE Hell and, the most pure EVIL on this planet...
Creatures we sure have to run away from - very far away 😱
Yes
Mine passed 7 months ago. Brain tumor which I was unaware of illness. He humiliated me until the end while he knew he was dying!
As a narc. This is on the ball. It's terrifying hearing this... and I truly wish this wasn't the case but it is true. The part where he states "when you say I love you to a narcissist it's understood as I'm about to possess you".... I've never quite understood it as that but that kind of closeness would bring dread. I'd become intimacy advoidant? All of a sudden you were too close? And it wasn't that I didn't love you or care for you but that desire to maintain or keep myself would kick in? I felt like it was like a losing of something? To love you as you love me was to lose myself and I could not lose myself?
I once explained this to my partner and he commented that that is what it means to love someone? You become vunerable? But for me it was like becoming vunerable was losing? It would make me anxious... I thought it was because I struggled to accept/believe that I could be loved unconditionally... oh gosh.
Yes, that is how I also understand Prof. Vaknin, terrifying to me, what then can we do, I love my covert and have to hold back my own emotions and truth in oder for him not to envy me and he can stay whole 😢
what a breathing, walking cancer😂
disgusting
This is so true. story of my life with the sick narcissist I used to date. 100% true and extremely traumatizing. The envy part was so weird it felt like hate, pure hate. I believe narcissists are also psychopats, just another kind of psycho.
Envy was at the core of the malignant narcissist I divorced.
Always sabotaging and destroying his targets of his never ending envy .
In stage three they fail. This is a kinda sad reality to accept. They are a broken record. They repeat this cycle over & over again. They are stuck. It would be magical if we could take them by the hand & give them the trust to believe that they are worthy the way they are, then they could give up the envy & embrace & share the good with us. Wishful thinking
More like a nightmare... Narcs want your soul cause they DON'T HAVE ONE...they inject hatred into everyone, that's all they bring to the table, if all narcs were orange, we could see 'em coming...
@@dianematlock7922 amen and amen
@@dianematlock7922 Every one has a soul, just that narcs are not in touch with theirs
@@sdelperdange7375 Not my problem...Iam not the reason their life sucks...it started before they met me....these are grown males, that have addiction problems, and rejection infection...and their joy is giving me their anger...life is an inside job... I love my life without them in it... I treat them like I did BEFORE I MET THEM...NOT AT ALL..
@@sdelperdange7375 true that's my son
I was married to a psychiatrist who was given enemas until 2nd grade. His mother was pretty sick. As soon as I became pregnant he hated my guts. He ultimately had me "banished" I had just owned a portrait studio. I was so afraid of him I believed I could go to prison for his constant lies and criminal filings. I had to leave town for 2 years. He destroyed me. Nobody really gets what forced, involuntary, unconstitutional exile does to a person because it never happens!
Take back your life, my dear! Don't let the narc control any aspect of your life. An attorney could help with a gag order or slander charge.
Dear Sam, Reading and listening to your lectures is not only profoundly informative and illuminative ~ its life altering. Your work is a complete gift of emancipation for those who would receive it, and also deeply chilling. I was aware that there was/is trauma and deep emotional pain, however your masterful and embodied examination, study and articulation of the internal world, environment, conditions, ways of functioning and experience of those with this kind of wounding (and those in their lives) is utterly heart breaking. Thank you for the work you do for all those involved and the fierce commitment you have toward other's deep learning and healing. You are an incredible example on a number of levels.
@@Roberta_Esposito looks like you should take professional help so as possible
I feel grateful and saddened; thankfulness & the chill you expressed when I listen this (& other) teaching(s) that Sam V. gives. I need the info., but it comes at a high price, & I have to take small bites...
Hhh
Hhh
Hhhhh
This is the first time that I realized that the Narcissist considers himself an "object," "The Good Object." I listened to this video several times and it wouldn't hurt to listen a few more times. May I call you a PERFECT teacher?
The only way to really live a narcissist is to let him keep his perfect object and exit the insane asylum.. this explains everything he loved me and had complete contempt for me at the same time.. its such a sad reality for them... but bears are cute you just dont want to cuddle them because they will eat you.. same thing as a relationship with a narcissist
Absolutely. It's incredibly sad. I love my Narcissist very much. It breaks my heart and I still haven't left. I used to think it wasn't completely Narcissism. There was more to him. He is so talented and charming. Then there is the devil side i can't stay with. He kicks me out every time we fight so now, I just leave on my own. Even packing and taking items home. I'll be completely out soon, and when I am... I'm never going back. No contact. Ever again. 😪
Tiffany Tisby I know I’m in it to....
My narc couldn’t feel. He violently rejected affection. I tried so hard to show him that I was a safe place. It was draining. It was exhausting. It was stressful. It was useless. I gave up on him mentally before I left physically. He stole so much of my life with his lies & his nasty behaviors. I realized it was never love. I was supply. It was control.
@@ImDemanding I am living in it now
@@donnahrodgers5025 If you’re here then you’re healing & growing smarter & stronger. It’s only a matter of time before you leave. I wish you well. Stay sane. Stay alert. xo
This is why he didn't need me around. He had internalized me.
I would ask mine, why, while on his two three month long trips, he would not check in on my every day, if he missed me, he said he didn't because he and I were one. .. now, it makes sense. he internalized me.
This is extremely disturbing, its like knowing theres a clone out there of you, made without your knowledge with a full life of its own. So insanely creepy I feel disgust.
Self defeating, self denial, self destructive! 32:13 they deny other people happiness! Envy is the driving force! The good people are the good objects?! It can only be own by the narcissist and no one else! Or you are a threat! Narcissist always shutdown during intimacy! You are soooooooo right! Wow!
It is definitely Groundhog Day, exactly like the movie. Add a hamster wheel in there and that about sums it up. It’s also like watching someone repeatedly bag their head off a wall and constantly complain of a headache.
Agreed, we are living in a narcissistic landscape
I told him off the other day. Very sick individual. Draws in and hoovers and then says later, “but it’s not you I have my heart set on.” I’m like, “Then LEAVE ME ALONE! This is all you! It is wrong to tell me you love me and then discard me and tell me it’s not me.” He responds with “I want peace.” Disgusting.
RUN RUN RUN
My husband would cause trouble then say he wanted peace? Twisted said all I did was make problems when he created the problem!!
They may as well be considered terminally ill… it seems there’s little to no hope for them to ever heal. They leave a path of destruction…it’s actually quite sad when you’re away from it or not emotionally invested.
The loop explanation is spot on. Also the envy.. I remember recognizing that- and it shocked me!
Makes me realize how vitally important it is to be a healthy parent …
I know the men I’ve dated whom I’ve suspected to have narcissism ALL had really inappropriate, unhealthy relationship’s w their mothers. It’s so weird.
How is this ever to be fixed?
What she said…. Do we need to look at mothers? If you remove them form the mother is the damage already done?
@@Kaligod3
The removing/separating from the toxic caregiver ( be it mother/father) would have had to happen at a very early age (2-3) BEFORE the symbiosis occurred.
That typically doesn’t happen because the family system is usually corrupt from the head on down. Someone from the inside would have had to understand the dynamics make proper adjustments.
Sad affair. That’s why we need to educate our children ourselves. Folks can only do better when they know better.
Sam, I am watching a show called Intervention for drug addicts. I think there totally needs to be a show about intervention into families of narcasists! (I'm former BPD)
I agree.
I'm the family scapegoat and working on bpd and your videos have been a complete game changer in learning my faults and behaviors as well as recognizing ng patterns. I am so grateful.
This perspective is profound. So basically the Narc does not believe he/she is worthy of love and when he/she does start to feel like they “love you” they destroy it.. Self destruction is within their nature… Sad story.
I have a family member who exibits these behaviors and it's devastating to be on the receiving end of the rage, when logic and rational thinking, give and take doesn't exist. Instead you are punished severely and the next day they act as if nothing happened and heaven help you if you challenge them on their behavior because they did not do anything wrong. And sometimes this rage appears to me like a toddler having an illogical tantrum but it's terrifying when the behavior is exibited by an adult, who was seemingly sane but is now someone else and your feelings mean nothing and you are crushed under them like some insignificant insect with no identity or rights.
555
There is usually a pattern of behaviour, learn to recognise it and enforce boundaries (e.g retract your energy) before it escalates. They have to know that you won't tolerate the shouting. You may have to be selective about how and what you communicate to them. You also have to release them all the time and expand yourself so there is nothing for them to think they need to control...they despise weakness. You cannot be close to a narcisstic person without severely harming yourself. It's thier agenda and thier needs first, always. They never make mistakes and will turn any conversation to be right....They will rewrite everything because they are good and if you don't agree it is because you just dont understand.
Ja, I regognized one day when my boyfriend at my place, he said he wanted some juice and I said-its in the fridge! He exclaimed "I don`t know how to open the fridge?" And just starring at me like defenceless boy/todller. This is only one example. That is why I understood something is wrong with this person.
Damn yeah ! I wanna coffee . He said . So go and make it . I don’t know how . Once I made it and didn’t put the milk on yet because our daughter started to cry so I told him to just put a milk himself . He got angry . He dropped that coffee into the sink and left the house . After silent treatment and all I said stop acting like a baby ffs . Damn ! I wish to know who I was dealing with before . All I feel sorry for our little baby girl but I won’t let him destroy Her
I wondered why I was always not enough, feeling dirty or strange and weird in some way. I always knew that the people around me were not right but I couldn't put together the two to make sense of why I felt so ineffective when inside I also didnt. Not many people stand up to these bullies because they might look charming or shiny on the outside so the victims dont feel strong enough and there is something wrong with them. The ugly truth!!
Dr. Vaknin,
Relating with someone with a personality disorder is always a " catch-22." Want good feeling? In them ariss resentment or some type of needed supply to take away energy. Want collaboration to feel together/united? Some lotus of control arises to demolish the bond. Want a feeling of communion with others? Grooms to then triangulate others into the scenario.
As you mention NO-CONTACT is best! Additionally, any movement otherwise I truly believe puts one in touch with deep seeded unconscious child like behavior to be abused/rejected by the maternal/paternal figure as we seek out approval. Thank you for all you do brother.
The ambivalence is imminent. Interesting way how you take us through the maze. They detest our guts & still want to profit of it. Their contemptment makes them trip & their selffestruct button bursts out. They believe they r not loved & will be abandoned if they fail. The empath kinda fears in a similar way; they think they need to earn love, to invest to receive, love is conditional & if they do not perform right they will be abondoned. We are similar in various ways & still different in the outcome. Ty for your input!
The puzzle comes together…after being dismissed from our relationship, it was difficult for me to understand what was happening. It was revealed to me spiritually, most of what is shared in this video. I was easy prey for the predator, as I was grieving the death of my husband and loss of over 40 years of a satisfying marriage. I could see the dysfunctional game playing of this charming suitor only when looking back, and it was truly a blessing of
rescue to be free from the emotional pain of loving a sexually frustrated narcissist. Thank you for all your videos. I only wish I had seen them a couple of years before.
Me too, met my covert when I was grieving the death of my husband of 33 yrs, a good marriage, I fell for a covert, still with him, he only Sees himself, no compliments, says he loves me though
Get out! Run for your Life!
This lecture is a godsend. This weekend, I broke up with my narc during his final rage at the apartment we've shared. I'm shellshocked but your videos are helping me better understand how he operates, the hell our relationship became and how I can put myself back together. Thank you Dr. Vaknin!
Big big hug, Erica 💝
Look up HG Tudor RUclips, one of best like Dr Vaknin. Mind blowing
25:13 Sam is 100% correct about the baby viewing mother as an all good object and not as an all bad object. The baby would traumatize itself if it viewed the mother as the all bad object because of how dependent it is on her, and it instinctually realizes this.
Now when i reflect on some many things he said, it's often related to power and possession. things he usually said to me "remember, I'm always mine" "I'm not gonna do this to satisfy you and give you power", "I really don't like you drinking wine out of my glass, it's like you're marking your territory"...
After starting my journey through narcissistic abuse I have been enlightened and helped greatly by your lectures on narcissism by understanding the constant battle of thoughts inside the mind of an afflicted narcissistic person. It has also helped me see and open my mind to my own patterns of co-dependency because I wish to find a way to be at peace with myself as well. I wish there could be an understanding of confusing thoughts in a narcissist that could allow an acceptance of being and in turn have them relate to people and themselves in a healthy way. Anyway, I thank you and look forward to listening to many more videos.
The neglectful or abusive behaviors of narcissists reawaken old wounds that a parent inflicted on a person (anywhere from 1-9 years of age as Sam states) because of how similar their patterns in behavior are. The subconscious mind is seeking to recreate the main traumatic event that the child had with its parent THROUGH the narcissist. So this is why many people become overly attached, obsessed or glued to certain narcissistic people but it all has to do with resolving a core trauma issue.
So how do you get through it so you don't have to recreate the trauma again? Any advice?
Well said, James. And Narcissists are keen observers of only those people who still have unresolved childhood wounds. In Narc-speak, the Narcissist can then anoint themselves as Godlike healers.
@@angiethor Through reprogramming yourself. Recognizing and changing your own patterns.
You really should get with Hollywood and make a movie out of this mess. I going and growing through this divorcing the narc the worst ten years of my life.
FREEDOM IS CALLING, Dear❣️
I'm only about 16 mins into this video. I recently had a break-up with a CN and have also experienced narcissism in my family. The CN I just broke up with: he absolutely idealised me as very much perfect and angelic on falling in love with me. He definitely internalised me and made me this part of him that was 'privileged' to be a part of him. I felt very drained by the relationship, but also fell in love anyway (talked to him a lot, over lockdown). I didn't understand why I felt tired and drained and in love at the same time. Anyway. - Yes, he suffers from suicidal ideation any of the time he is not in a relationship. As he started to see that I'm human and not 'perfect' and that he would have to make efforts to express his feelings with me/have healthy communication after his love-bombing, his suicidal ideation crept in again and he discarded me in a very cruel way. I see that I guess he suddenly got to this weird point of ambivalence, as if out of nowhere. I still cared about him greatly and was open to communicating, but he just shut off as if his feelings had gone or he wanted them to go (because he wouldn't/couldn't actually open up). And yes, he has no sense of self. I guess he takes what little sense of self he has from people around him. - And I apparently wasn't enough to fill in what he lacked anymore because I stood up for myself.
The triggers that lead to disengagement are the amazing qualities that we have. I started to refuse to walk on eggshells and I wished to only share my thoughts and be intimate with my partner that has narcissism. Admitting our own feelings to them like love, sadness, or something that shows our humanity and not being perfect, and as we admit to that which is normal, is met with anger and disgust and we are trash to them. So FU’d up!
I hope you are doing well. I broke up with mine about a month ago. I was ALWAYS exhausted. My mistake was going into it trying to be what I wasn't, or perhaps that's what saved me. Since I now feel like I didn't ever love him, I never knew him. I got to know myself more to through him so in a way I used him as well. I know that's weird but I was raised by a narcissistic mother and have long since left most of my family in search of a place I can be myself. I was practicing being more feminine and submissive which he absolutely loved, but I discovered I still struggled with codependency. However I still wanted intimacy, like you. So mine also saw he had to make more effort and began discarding me. I picked up on it at the end and on the final attempt to hoover me I mirrored back to him all his imperfections, on purpose of course because I had had enough and I was done with my mask as well, funny right? I didn't realize he was a narcissist until a few days after I blocked him on everything and actually its helped me in a way because the whole relationship I couldn't understand why I had felt bad, like something wasn't right... and that I felt alone, like there was no intimacy. I didn't trust my gut since the beginning of the relationship and I'm kicking myself for it. Many times, all the time it screamed for me to leave and I did break up with him MULTIPLE times where he immediately convinced me to go back and slightly changed in some ways. But ultimately he could not go very deep, he would drown . Also funny enough I love robots and I always would say that I wanted a robot boyfriend. well I got him, he was not human. I learned about the concept of uncanny valley through these videos. Look it up, its weird but applies to the narc. Prof. Vaknin does not sugar coat anything and I'm doing the same. Its opened my eyes wider but I don't feel distrusting of people I just know to be myself and trust my gut, its never failed me. Good luck to you and thanks for sharing your experience.
@@hunbundoe7627 you sound like me, right down to mom.
@hunbundoe7627 I didn't trust my gut either...there were so many flags, but I ignored them.
He made me feel so special.
How are you these days? I hope you have moved on and are doing much better.
*hugs*
I think it’s very tiring to be a narc…just listening to how they are on the inside gives me a headache…wow
Thank you so so so much for taking your time to share this information with others !
OMGosh this is my mom, and dad!
No-one explains it the way you do, you have taught me so much, thank you!!
Working on it and your videos have really cracked open all the answers to my whole entire life! Thank you.
Another brilliant, highly insightful video. Thank you, Sam, this is by far the best, deepest and most useful content I've found on narcissism and other mental illnesses.
This makes SO MUCH SENSE!!! THANK YOU.
Waw! What a phenomenal lecture.
Unbelievably accurate 100%
Fascinating.
Thank you!
My last partner told me that after surpassing 6-8 months of dating there will be no more choice for me to get out of relationship. I said there is always an option to leave. She disagreed and said at that point for her she becomes so attached that she can't let go and views her partner as her object (literally told me this). She said she will do anything to keep or get back her object and told me she had destroyed what previous partners love most after they had left her for someone else, in one example a prized antique vehicle. I coincidentally also have an antique vehicle, i broke it off, but every time i heard wind i was looking out my window to see if she was out front destroying. She hasn't but i believe that's only bc i found out she was maintaining multiple relationships and cheating and she doesn't want me to tell her previous partner about it (who i thought was her most recent ex). She said she would destroy my things if i did, i believe he gives her money as he's rich and lives out of state. So i walked away, he can have her (or think he does)
I have just discovered these videos. So enlightening. Even though I’ve been in therapy now for two years after having two back to back narcissistic relationships, I still have so many questions as to why they are the way they are. Therapy has definitely helped me understand why I allowed myself to be used over and over again, but these videos help me better understand overall.
So funny! I love the humor that accompanies this lecture! Thank you!
OMG, all of this is SO true! I remember the exact moment my ex-narc started to show "jealously" towards me....and it was when other women complimented me on something. I almost couldn't believe it the first time I saw the change in his demeanor. In hindsight, it was deep within the devaluing/discarding stage but I had NO CLUE what was going on. I COULD NOT WRAP MY MIND AROUND IT.....or anything from that point forward. Until I did figure it out. It's so gross, I hate thinking about it! As much as I think I will never get sucked back up into a narcissist's game, I find myself HERE with Professor Sam Vaknin, hanging on his every word :) You can't help but love him!!! Am I wrong ladies?!?! Seriously?! Thank you Prof. Vaknin for all your insight! It has helped me tremendously🙏 and now I have a RUclips crush☺
Yes professor is comical and witty and obviously genius
"Could not wrap my mind...."
Yeah... I had never experienced the feeling of being so surprised and confused yet I couldn't understand what was happening even if it was logically explained.
I hope you are feeling better.
*hugs*
Yes, very smart and very charming. Totally. But knowing what I know now, I’m not sure my suspiciousness of any highly charming person will ever allow me to lower my guard again. I’m like “what’s he got there up his sleeve? Why is he doing this? It can’t be altruism”
Dear Prof, you are deep, insightful, generous in the way that you share your knowledge with us; and painfully, so very painfully honest. I am binge-listening to your uploads and my respect grows with each one. Thank you.
Me too… can’t stop watching the professor!
I can’t believe how accurately this matches my experience. He self destructed.
These videos have been so enlightening as far as the "mother" wound. My ex idealized his mother so much. Put her on a pedastal and called her a "saint" because she put up with abuse from his father for 50 years and never left. He told me how he hated his father as a child and held a knife to him at 12 years old because he hit his mom. He grew up to be just as abusive as his father and expected me to be the "saint" that his mother was! Of course I fell from the pedastal when I refused. I realized that deep down he was very angry at his mom for tolerating the abuse for so many years. He actually had no respect for her at all. When I told him this one day (during an argument about why I wasn't a good woman like his mom) he went into a rage so bad, I feared for my life! This happened a few years later when I brought up how abusive his dad was to him in his childhood. He could never come to terms with the good/bad aspects of either of his parents. It was so crazy and sad.
My narc hated his mom until she died. But, now I find him more at peace yet not completely. He is still explosive if things don’t go his way. He never talks about her and moves away when she is mentioned. Doesn’t go to her grave.
"my narc".. As if hes a puppy. Why dont you heal your own codependency and start a healthy relationship with a healthy individual? You cant love someone who is no existent. A ghost..
Thank you for the most academic research truth about narcissists. Amazing 🙏Thank you 🙏
Thank you so so much for this words of wisdom and knowledge.
this was very enlightening. i agree, i think its the opposite of melanie klein. makes more sense to me because I have this very deep feeling of being "bad" and I always have. i struggle to paint my mom out as bad, even though she was completely neglectful and abusive. thanks for sharing your wisdom as always, Sam. you are truly a gem. don't care what anyone says. I see you and I admire your drive and your passion for psychology. take care
It’s not desirable to look at this (these) behavior(s). It takes a certain mindset to try to understand this.
Because there are so many Ns (& CNs), this MUST be dealt with. Because there are so many empathic people, this MUST be dealt with (because ‘no contact’ & ‘gray rock’ are needed).
So I am glad Sam V. speaks so much on these topics...
Some serious talk here. Now I understand and connect the puzzle of my past relations.
"The envy is stronger than the sexual drift !" , he allways quoted.
I see Now why he loved/liked that quote So much.
WOW! Thanx for the reality check! Yes, open the secret doors! You're helping me so much, and I'm sure others too......
What a mind-blowing lecture! So beautifully deconstructed.
This hits so close to home. When I speak to this person I can see in his face how he has no respect for what I’m saying. I can him picking me a part. There is no love or understanding in his eyes. This morning, he showed me something on his phone and the very girl he cheated with multiple times popped up. It’s happened over and over. I just immediately broke down. Its happened so many times. It just hit me all at once that this would never end. His response was “you aren’t doing anything for me anyway”. He was so angry that I was upset and used the most random stuff to argue that I shouldn’t be upset. He even said that I was ungrateful for the food he bought. He said I should be grateful 🥲 I never even accused him of anything, I just sat there with my mind racing trying to process how this is my fault. He said that I didn’t have anything to offer him so he blocked my number and broke things off.
Wow! This all makes sense now! Thank you for explaining it. It’s really helpful but it’s so sad.
It’s been 16 months now and I’m still trying to heal!
He simply broke my heart so many times…
Everyone thinks he’s wonderful and he told everyone that he loves me and wants to be with me…
Yet no one knows about the secrets lies and deceit!
I’m keeping it all to myself as it’s easier! I’ve used too much energy and numerous sleepless nights over him someone that I loved dearly and thought I’d be with for the rest of my life…!
I feel rather sad to think he’s never had a bond with his mother and he was left on his own crying his eyes out! Sad! All I wanted to do was to love him and wanted him to feel my love for him.
He very secretive, lies and deceived me! He simply broke my heart time and time again. The intimacy between us was unusual very seldom 5/6 weeks even tho I only used to see him a two half days a week!
I hope this makes people work on themselves and be kinder to the people who truly love you rather than destroy them!
Thank you for the content you're providing
I agree with you regarding the child internalizing the bad mother and externalizing the good. That makes more sense in my humble opinion. Thank you for your posts. Very eye opening.
Can a narcissist ever really come to terms with and acknowledge that their childhood/mum was bad? I think the most difficult thing I have experienced is that you cannot really establish which parts of the narcissist are real and which are not..
My narc mom is 70yo and she adores/idolizes her parents (deceased long time ago). My narc golden boy brother is 44yo and adores my mother though he has realized something is wrong about her. My brothers is the most damaged of the 3 adult children.
Yes, they can. I know one who is totally aware of his own disorder and how his mother caused it. But definitely don't count on most narcissists being aware. The denial is huge on multiple levels.
@@mudskippa8958 As Dr. Vaknin himself is aware.
Mine said her mom treated her like shit. She was the ugly duckling so to speak.
Thank you, that was amazing. I got an education, but also it made me giggle.
I have this video on loop. Each time I listen to it I learn something new.
So in a nutshell...narcissists don't want to be intimate and vulnerable.
It is true what you are saying, withholds intimacy now to punish me, hold control 😢
They can’t, the thought of it terrifies them. To vulnerable and intimate means to them that they hand you the power to destroy them, that’s what they think, but inevitably if you believe and trust one, you are doing just that , they have absolutely no comprehension of how to genuinely and sincerely bond with another human being
@@divinegalacticcolors Exactly! I have been in a very strange and stressful (words cannot express how crazy and intense those feelings were) with a severe super narc and that's my conclusion! I have felt too much difference with 'normal' people. For a long time, I have been thinking that it was because the narc was so unique and special! Yet I only found out that these people were not capable of having any intimacy with another person nor real connections.
Its absolutely amazing 🌷👍 Thank You so much 🥰
As a borderline, your videos are giving me a sense to live. People like you are gold for a borderline coal soul.
This is my favorite video. Thank you
This is fascinating...thank you.
All true as always thanks Sam ❤
Thank you so much. Incredibly helpful!!
Wow, thank you, 40 years old , text book narcissist alkaholic, ruined my fiance, sleeping in a car, that all just hit me... wow, thank you
Thank u.
I was crying after feeling so rejected from my ex and I understand so much more now . Also I can relate to some of these issues within myself !
What made you relate to some inner issues? Abd what are these? I am with a covert and I cry a lot because of unknown inner issues which he triggers I guess. He is kind to me.
So when he realizes there is another good object outside of himself, then does he realize he’s not perfect?
The narcissist I know said he wants to die at age 55. We are in our 30’s. I asked him if he was afraid of looking like his older self. He looked shocked I said that. Oh and now he calls me old. Go figure lol. His ego can’t handle growing older. He’s soo abusive and puts me down constantly. I met him in school. I graduated and he didn’t so I think he literally hates me now. Sad part is I love him. It’s the dumbest love I’ve ever had. Now, he literally devalued the hell out of me, called me selfish because I’m taking care of my health, and then discarded me with no warning. Hopefully I can continue to build myself and when he returns I have the strength to not respond.
I was just texting mine and one thing he did was say “Come over so we can talk.” Then he said he was tired and going to bed. So LITERALLY just now, he said, “You’re all over the place. You asked me to come over to talk then said never mind.” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTFFFF????!!!!!
Oh yes, the "Wyd?" Then: "Never mind" right after. Or the "Come over" and then: "Nvm" literally right after. I wouldn't even get a chance to reply before the "nvm" came. I'd ask him why he did that. . .Him:
I am going trough this right now.. thank you 🙏🏽
Thank you for the enlightenment!
Fascinating lecture sir, thank you.
I absolutely adore your videos.
thank you so much, these lectures helped me a lot
Like you , actually. I have listened to your videos and talks...when I studied Psychology at UB I found my professors unapproachable as I was so young. I didn't graduate with a BA in Psych, but it is an everlasting pleasure and passion I will have evermore
Thank you for your interesting talks.
5:37
I am the son of a narcissistic father. Now I understand why he always wanted a daughter (less competition I guess) and he always seems to get on with females better. Was always a bit effeminate.
Massively competitive with me. He'd get so mad if I was successful.
He provided financially, but apart from that he was absolutely toxic. I always thought how richer my life would be if he were dead. Its never a good sign when being an orphan would have been better than having a father 😅
The relationship only improved when he became older, weaker, more isolated and I completely pushed him out of my life, stood on my own two feet and left the family home, had no financial need for him, wouldn't look at his face, and would treat him like a naughty child and snap at him/ignore him if he did anything petty. But I think it was the getting weaker and more isolated that changed his BEHAVIOUR (he hasn't actually changed, he just knows that he has no one else, so it's still all about him!)
I forgave him in the sense that I don't want to get revenge/compensation for the harm sustained as a result of his unfortunate presence in my life. But this was only for religious reasons. I forgave him for God's sake. I still actually despise him. I loathe him. He's disgusting in every way. I can barely look at his face without contempt creeping up on my expression. He's disgusting and delusional in every way. Ironically, his delusions lead him to believe that he is perfect 😂. I wish I had some of that confidence!
Despite forgiving him, I hate him. I wish him a (short) peaceful life and a (hasty) peaceful death. He will not be missed when he is gone.
Because what is there to miss? At his worst he is destructive, toxic and nasty, and at his best, in his weakened state where he controls his BEHAVIOUR (not reform his soul) he is EXTRAORDINARILY delusional in the most irritating way and STILL demonstrates narcissistic traits, particularly to the few naive saints who would accept that behaviour from him.
Good riddance. I hope its soon, I hope its quick, I hope its amicable, I hope its comfortable for him, and the logistical aspects are not complicated.
Good riddance.
Sadly you also described the malignant narcissist alcoholic ex I divorced.
He has done the same abuse,neglect, and abandonments of my children. He is especially envious of my sons and does anything he can to sabotage and destroy their success, autonomy, drive, and self esteem
They are all struggling now and he’s there kicking them while their down.
Calling him monster is a compliment for him.
My experience is that narcissistic fathers hate their sons and love their daughters ( DT). The narcissistic mothers do the opposite..adore their sons and despise their daughters.
Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate your honest feelings on such a painful and personal subject. Sometimes I try to remind myself that I like who I am. Somehow that is a consolation. I think: if I was given the choice to be either a narcissist or the victim of a narcissist, NEVER would I choose to be the narcissist. And I know that, while it may take some time, eventually we (who have been changed by the narc in our lives) are capable of seeing behind the veil. The fog lifts and (if we can muster the strength) we can cut our many losses and move on with our wisest and most trusted of helpers: ourselves. Together, we plant whatever remains into more hospitable soil. Much love and healing as you press onward with YOU. May you be granted strength and compassion for your journey. 🤍
For me it seems that you are still full of hate and bitterness.
Reactive egocentricity!
I hope you can heal some day.
I was the "best" friend (as he called me and kept calling me) of a narcissist. I think he somehow idealized me because since I have traits of Asperger, I guess I came across as a "cold" lacking of empathy character. He thought in these black and white coded values, I was either with him and an extension of himself or against him. When he met people and made me get to know them, he would immediately antagonized them or whispered gossip about them.
Rejection infection...ENVY...
When he said people have claimed to feel non existent anymore when loving, living etc with a narcissist. That’s how I’ve start feeling after 3 years of being with my Now ex bf. Started feeling like who am I anymore.
A Genius. Bless you.
The funniest thing I found about my ex was she absolutely believed she loved "unconditionally". She gave me an example of how she attended her dad who was dying of cancer. Background story is - her dad was her idol and she has all her issues originating from their past history.
She didn't quite understand that she only did the things that she wanted to do in life and unconditional love requires you to put aside your own needs in order to accommodate the needs of others. To her, outside of the people she was DIRECTLY related to, everyone else was a transaction. Everything she did for me was what she wanted to change in me. But she convinced herself that she was PERFECT when it came to loving.
I agree with Vaknin's explanations more than the one from Klein. It makes more sense considering the current cultural zeitgeist.
The only thing I could actually count on 100% from the narc was when I specifically asked NOT to do something, he would as soon as I tuned or left the house. I would make lists for grocery or projects with detailed instructions, he would get only half the lists or never even not read. 4 yrs later... countless requests asking many things, nothing is completely finished. Occasionally he would take action and make effort after fights. It was only to justify he works hard demanding praise for actions. However none of the actions had any care, thought or intention behind them it was always done sloppily, lazy and wrong. The most idiotic ways, literally applying things backwards costing 2 to 5x costs & work. Never following detailed lists or instructions. He would act stupid when confronted I would be frustrated. Then he victimized himself for not getting credit approval and me being bad. I felt he was doing it purposely to spite me then realize the patterns for the next 4 years in our house... nothing I've asked him to do or fixed completely yet.
This is crazy you are so intelligent