Impersonal Triangulation
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2022
- Triangulation revolves around managing and controlling a relationship dynamic by introducing a third party into the mix, emotionally or sexually.
Triangulating partners choose any third party who is perceived - in reality or fantasy - as available.
When no specific third party is available to triangulate with, they makes general triangulation statements such as:
“I always cheat; I can never be loyal; I can’t resist my sex drive; cheating is meaningless; I don’t give a damn about my partner; I don’t even remember him when I have sex with others; I always do as I please at the moment” and so on.
Triangulation is used to get a rise out of the partner and thus restore the relationship; punish for some transgression, real, anticipated, or imagined; sustain a fantasy; or dissolve the relationship. Pushing your partner to cheat is also a form of triangulation.
The word gaslighting was invented in the 1960s, but I was the first scholar to use it in terms of narcissistic abuse (a phrase that I coined to describe the narcissist’s annihilating abuse).
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this is not where I expected my acid trip to take me
Lol
Gold lol
You’re a legend! ❤
You called out a behaviour that used to unsettle me in some relationships including professional ones. As soon as I sense triangulation I step away.
An old boyfriend used to triangulate by talking about female friends by saying things like “she’s so beauuuuutiful” or “she’s so taaaaalented” or “she’s suuuuch a good person”. He only said those things about beautiful women.
I knew someone who said the same things. All other women were beautiful, nice, smart, sweet yada yada and did not have not even one compliment for me.
I knew someone who would trigulate me with other random guys, celebrities she idolized and any random 3rd party in order to test insecurity and judge my reactions. The best response seemed to be complete indifference, but it never stopped despite pointing it out in real time on many occasions and explaining I don't like it.
One of my brother-in-laws experienced the same by one of my sisters. It used to be with "cute" guys at her place of work and after she'd retired she turned her idolization in the direction of David Beckham. Her husband never reacted badly to it as far as I know and probably even bought her the t-shirt with Beckham's picture on. lol. She tried to proselytize me into the cult of Beckham the last time we met, but I had plenty of my own issues to deal with.
She sounds insecure af, hope you’re healing ❤️🩹
Your channel is my guilty pleasure :) There is no one who tells the dark caves of psychology the way you do. Thanks Prof.
To Sir with Love
@@thewoundedhealer4950 It takes one to know one... lol He just talks about what he knows best about his own ways. He didn't even had to learn it, it comes completely natural to him. He still deserves respect even though he's doing it for himself... 😃
Just because they tell you there is another person... doesn't mean there is.
I triangulated my narc with you 🧡
Triangulation can also be a thing in my opinion. He uses the casino as another lover
shoshanimz in da house ^_^ Thanks for everything you do for the whole humanity! we love you Prof. Vaknin
My father who died in 2018 & who I now think was a 'covert narc' always triangulated his way through all sorts of conversations w/me for years & years. I just didn't 'get' why I could never seem to get the sense of parental approval or even acknowledgement my ego or my little "inner child" was after. I sure didn't know why; but when I would tell him of one of my accomplishments, he would often tell me immediately afterwards about "one of his friends" who seemed so much more accomplished in a similar or same area of development as I, in a sort of one-upsmanship by my dad who described a 'higher accomplishment' by one of my dad's "friends", who wasn't even present at the time.
Of course, I felt less-than, minimized & inferior about whatever I had done that I was trying to get my father's "approval" after-the fact; which left me feeling worse than I had before I'd said anything. This was how I guess my father controlled & minimised my accomplishments.
Thank you for your informative & scholarly videos. Only in the last 2-3 years have I been able to really seen the person my father 'was' (most people believed my dad was a 'Saint') & I felt guilty for not being 'in awe' of him while at the same time I always seemed to be desperately trying to get both his love and approval.
Thanks for your informative & scholarly videos Professor Vaknin.
I’ve just been subjected to exactly this and I didn’t understand it till I saw your video. Incredible timing. Thanks Sam!
..sometimes is just enough to say it's nice having you sharing a new thought with us. Have a good night, prof Vaknin.
Sleepless in Zurich 😂 thank you for this video on how destructive triangulation is!
I'd love to see your take on tactics of mate poachers. I've noticed more women try to break up families now more than ever it seems. Like married men or men in relationships seem to be more appealing to these personality types.
I would love to see you search my channel.
@@samvaknin lol 😆
Yes, I believe my narcissistic sister triangulated me with imaginary people. She would say, “Well THESE persons said I did not do or say (that thing) or I spoke to THAT person who said the same.” She would never give a name, just used the descriptors of those, that and this person. She no more spoke to anyone about her actions than I flew to the moon. If she had, she knew she’d be told the truth about what she did/said and that would be too real and too truthful.
Such GREAT direction. I never thought about it that way. After listening, I notice I am absolutely guilty of "verbal triangulation" I use it quite often -- this is super helpful because I've chronically loved my life for years only looking outward trying to create safety for myself by identifying all the "tactics" and knowing I. Some core level we all use and operate using them, but I both refused to see it and also legitimately couldn't see it. Thank you for helping me SEE . Appreciate you and the quality of work you always do and bring to the table. 🙏
Thank you, Sam! Always enjoy your content. My husband does this all the time with anyone or anything. He constantly tells me he married out of his league. I know it is because he has low self esteem, but I also recognize that there is some work I need to do as well. Relationships are not for the weak, my friends.
This video resonated with me and confirmed my instincts. Can this be a form of impersonal triangulation?: A narcissist who was married and never told me this, would tell me things like "Men should cheat" or making clear references to cheating regularly on the wife. Another thing he said was "I am pressed between being nice to my wife and having to take care of my own personal needs." Hearing these made me extremely uneasy.
He's testing you and managing your expectations. That way when he does cheat he knows how to manipulate you to accept it or think you are responsible for it.
Comparing you to someone else is triangulation. Someone who is alive but, isn't even in the picture.
I took my daughter out for dinner at McDonald's on our way home to Grandma's house. Grandma is a covert narcissist. I figured since it was late she would have already had something to eat, so I didn't bring her anything. Well, when she found out that we didn't bring her back anything she got MAD 😡! To punish me for this supposed transgression, she called my aunt, uncle, and some third family member and lied her face off about all sorts of ridiculousness. Now we're gray rocking her because it's pretty clear that she has decided we are satan himself and we can't seem to do anything right. What a bizarre experience!
So many influencers or wannabe influencers do this online with their audiences. Many of whom happen to be complete strangers. They share intimate details about being treated poorly by their current or ex partners, family members, work colleagues, and so on. One common theme that I’ve noticed when people do this is that it is expected that you take their word at face value. I find myself unable to trust anyone who engages in this type of behavior and have even lost friendships over refusing to support the alleged victim without having heard the other side of the story. Seriously people get mad if you don’t blindly support “victims” nowadays. I’ve been called mysogonist, racist, and a right winger over this. Ironically I’m a minority, raising a daughter alone, and don’t involve myself in politics because I’m too busy to pretend like I understand them. I found this channel when I thought I was dealing with a psychopathic colleague, but I’ve been impressed by many more of your topics of conversation. Thanks for the content.
@Zachary cancel culture is full of disempathic people who could never be trusted with much. In combat you cannot shoot at everyone even when you suspect danger. You have to be cautious but peaceful until there’s no option but to engage. I’m other words, you have to let things play out a certain way before acting. That’s probably what’s made me level headed about these types of issues. Everything should be on the table before you make a judgement that could cause harm to yourself and others. That’s why responsibility is something I always pay attention to and how people take ownership of themselves. Taking responsibility isn’t something I ever see in cancel culture or these same influencer types I spoke about above. It’s always finger pointing. They may be right but you can’t discredit the other side without knowing the whole story.
this is exactly what i've been witnessing. Language and failure in their consistency in language is also making their manipulative behavior even more obvious.
Example from the workplace: at my previous job I was responsible for an annual event. In 2021 after the event was successful, my boss sent a long email thanking a coworker of mine for all their hard work on the event. As this person's assistant, I had visibility on this email and they knew it. The coworker had contributed approximately 10 minutes worth of work to the event, while I had spent weeks on it. I did not receive a thank you.
Fortunately, I recognized this as triangulation. I had already come to suspect my boss was a communal narcissist. So instead of reacting to the email, I made sure to improve my relationship with the coworker. I did that every time my boss tried to triangulate me. I think it drove them nuts.
So good Prof Vaknin. Thank you once again for all your insights. I am a professional in this area but try never to be a 'self styled expert'...rather a specialist whose desire is to be a good and wise guide. 🤗
Thank you professor Vaknin !
Thank you, Sam! Yet again a powerful insight. I really appreciate your work.
Sleepless in Paris, France 23:01 Sun December 11
Here's looking at you Sam!
Thank you so much for sharing. You smart !! Merci
My favorite professor !!!!!
Thank you Samaharishi. Sam simply puts it simple.
My parents (both narcissistic) use this method when they have a conflict with me. They use each other, and get overly 'friendly' with each other during those days, they have done this since I was a kid.
Or introducing a dog, a car, alchohol, etc.
Thank you so much.
In a romantic relationship, can triangulation include excessive attention to sports, hobbies, work? Especially where the partner doesn't share these interests?
Yes
I’d say absolutely yes
Love all the comments Ty 🌹
Thank you Prof Vaknin for helping me realize how my triangulating behavior impacts the relationship. I DO tend to do it when I sense a loss of interest from the part of my partner because I notice it helps to reignite passion. I wonder what would happen to the relationship if I stop the impersonal triangulations.
Good stuff!
Ex's daughter told him to block me when he could not reach me on Christmas Day. Never spoke to her, ever. Then he blew us up. The end.
My father has consistently pursued other family members in the immediate family in order to talk about the one he has questions about, is struggling with, is insecure about or feels he can't control in the way he wishes. These things happen on a regular basis throughout the years! I'm in the midst of the worst one ever right now with him.
The others of us have slightly considered saying to him to stop triangulating, but part of his emotional makeup must be that of a toddler, although he acts like an adult most of the time? We never said anything to him in the past cuz we thought it would just all blow over but how I wish we had started calling him on it years ago. My parents got divorced when I was in third grade. We let this get out of hand and now we've created an unfixable monster at the end of his life.
Another person in my life does this because he's been trying to start an intentional community, and as soon as a new person shows up just barely in his awareness, he sells them charmingly, asks superficial questions which he thinks are very deep, tells everyone they're wonderful, tells them they're going to be the next greatest thing in the group, gets them involved in trying to talk with him and to the others about what is wrong with them that they're not doing what he wants, and somewhat cast others aside. This little superficial childish unividuated dance has gone on for decades! And has happened hundreds literally hundreds of times over the years!
No More!!!! The narc has triangulated and used me for the last time; when he and his main supply isn’t getting along!
good morning sam
Insightful
My narc ex said at the beginning that he can’t guarantee he’d be loyal to me. So I took it that we are not going to be ever serious. A month later there was a scandal that he loved me and wanted to marry me. When I mentioned what he’d told me earlier regarding his inability to be faithful, he said “I must have said it because you’d provoked me”. 😅
One triangulation tactic I come across a lot with narcs is name dropping and back channel relationship making with my supporters to then isolate and smear me.
I laughed when a guy who confused live with pain triangulated me with another woman friend in a conversation to see how I’d react in order to see if he could solicit jealousy to know if I liked him… people are messed up!
Dear Sam, great video. Could I ask you to expand on the topic? About the triangulation mechanism as a way to channeling emotions? 'cause I watch this thing work every day, everywhere, on a dishwasher that doesn’t wash well and makes a narcissist suffer... and then it hurts everyone else... I mean, the triangulation mechanism itself is two against one - it’s a way to channeling emotions into another that works not only with living things, but with non-living things too. Create a situation to get the resources. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on this.
My mother would control and triangulate the whole family, including in laws, it was only when she became physically incapasitated we all began directly talking to each other to manage her situation...it was such a relief for us all. It ultimately led to a habit of distanced behaviour between family members, it has never healed properly. She was a narcissist even had a double life....oh the damage it has wrecked !! Have spent my whole life dealing with the fall out....but thank Goodness you shine such a light on the subtleties of these dynamics. Thanks Sam for all you share 💖
When are you coming to Montreal que ?
Dear Prof. Vaknin, is any of your books published in czech, slovak or german language?
No.
@@samvaknin Thank you for response
If someone is trying to manipulate, control, or triangulate... doesn't that mean they 'want you'. Obviously, in an unhealthy way but if they didn't want you for whatever reason, they wouldn't bother, correct? A narc wouldn't be trying to hook someone if they didn't idolize them in some way. If there wasn't some purpose.
Looks like you are on the USCSS Nostromo.
Spot on hahaha
A friend's mother triangulated her daughters which eventually led to a lifetime estrangement between the sisters.
Dear Herr Dr Vaknin 😊
I am getting greatly educated by all of your videos but here is a question out of what you teach us so very well
Being interested also with words…
I have been asking all my jewish friends what can”shashamin” in hebrew ,yedish mean
No success 😢
Then I thought it could have a japanese manga”ish” ring to it …no success
Please would you be so kind as to let me know what the translation is .
Viele Dank ,Grazie mille,
Merci beaucoup de Montréal
Roses.
@@samvaknin merciii
Question: Can AI relationships work for narcissists? They can get everything they need and healthy people won’t be abused and they won’t procreate and thus won’t transfer cluster B disorder to kids? What do you thing?
Lol
Please, is triangulation if partner told you that because of you, I can't flirt with others, or you are not my type , ?
No. It is rejection or manipulation.
@@samvaknin Thank you 💖
That sounds like typical religious behavior
When someone uses religious dogma as a weapon...for example a level of perfection not possible to attain...
When a boss shows favoritism to certain employees IN FRONT OF other employees....
When a parent speaks of their faults as ALSO BEING YOUR FAULTS... as if you are bonded in failure with them....