Just some updates: -This UMP has been converted to 45 and shoots much smoother than .40S&W. - No regurts on the UMP, it's a sweet shooter for a 45 ACP SMG/PCC. Long form review in progress. - Magazines are also being tested. Really expensive testing here with cases of defensive HXTs being slung downrange (ugh). - Special thanks to Tommy Built for helping me square ths away! - the UMP 45 looks BADASSSSSSSSSSSS still. Bad Boys for life. Awesome comments so far, keep them coming, I like reading them and thinking more about how i can review this firearm more comprehensively.
IMO, if HK's primary market for the UMP was US government entities, it would have been better to design it in the framework of a modern M3 Grease Gun, cheap, easy to use, and controllable. It really wouldn't be all that different from the UMP as it exists, just with a longer receiver for the bolt to travel in. The Grease Gun has a cycle distance of about 6 inches, and the resulting low ROF and near constant recoil operation is what makes the blowback .45 M3 at least as controllable as the roller delayed 9mm MP5--at least in my experience. The UMP was released at a time when submachine guns were still in vogue, the terminal performance of 9mm compared to larger handgun rounds was still in question, and before intermediate rifle caliber carbines became the norm. In this context, a polymer bodied, closed-bolt, constant recoil, ergonomic .45 ACP submachine gun with the MP5's exceptional controllability might have just been the modern Grease Gun that America needed (at least before doctrinal shift to semi-automatic carbines and the rise of the short barreled AR). Love your videos
Well I shit on the UMP pretty hard. But if it makes you feel cool then you can't put a price on that. Well you can in most cases, but you know what I mean. BTW, I'm also a fellow Asian, half Korean, and Walther P99AS carrier. Also I don't shoot nearly as good as you do. Which means my opinions are less than useless. Which would actually mean they're hurtful. Which I'm sure they're not. So they're right at useless I guess. Love your videos anyway
Did you get the tungsten weight of a UMP bolt or is it a stock USC bolt? There is some difference to the recoil impulse with the UMP’s bolt with the anti bolt bounce weight added
1. The ump has a g36 like trigger because the trigger is just modified g36 trigger. 2. The Ump wasn't supposed to replace the mp5 but be a cheaper alternative. H&k was kinda broke so they wanted a cheaper gun to design and make. Thats why its blow back and takes ques from the g36. The caliber swap was also included so they could sell to as many police departments without having to design a new gun for each caliber.
I have around 6000 rounds through a select-fire UMP45. The best way to emulate the sensation it gives on full auto is to put a brick inside a shoebox and shake it as hard as you can. The bolt weighs 27.5 oz., almost double that of an AR BCG with a carbine buffer. Even with a relatively low ROF, sight picture is difficult to track mid-burst. The entire front sight assembly--including the hood--disappears into a translucent smudge and the red dot reminds me of one of those laser shows I used to watch as a kid. Outside of something like a Micro Uzi or Ingram, it was the most useless automatic I've had the experience of shooting. Hogue used to make an AR stock adapter for the UMP, and putting an Enidine shotgun buffer assembly in place of the standard buffer tube helped significantly, but even then the UMP (at least in 45) it was far better used exclusively as a semi. The trigger is heavy, but has a shorter travel than the MP5's, and if you're used to stock AR triggers it isn't that bad. The UMP I used was exceptionally accurate, printing 2 MOA at 50 yards with Federal JHPs. And despite having double-stack, single feed magazines and no feed ramp to speak of, it was extremely reliable. Still, there's a reason MP5s are still around while the UMP barely exists anymore. P.S. Don't make a habit of HK slapping the UMP. That plastic notch will wear through real fast!
actually yeah that's a really good comparison, on auto these really do feel like a brick in a shoebox. Also to mirror your experience, lots of early GWOT dudes in IRQ actually really liked using the UMP, but it was almost exclusively used on semi. After running this UMP in 45 (after this video's filming) I would agree that I prefer the 45 and in 45 it is very manageable in semi.
+1000 on the notch wearing out. On my team we had six UMP-40's and MP-5 shooters who were issued one, went through the same manual of arms until our armorer recognized the damage that was happening to the bolt hold open notch. I agree about it being accurate however no one was really upset when we transitioned to M-4's.
@@9HoleReviews If I recall correctly, the UMP45 and UMP9 have bolt masses tailored to their respective calibers while the UMP40 shares its bolt mass with the latter. This is why the 9 and .45 have relatively low rates of fire of ~600rpm while the .40 cycles at around 700. I wrote this in a separate comment, but if HK just lengthened the receiver to give the bolt more room to travel, they could've given us a closed bolt, modern Grease Gun with dramatically increased controllability in full auto compared to the UMP in its current form.
@@c.r.chandler5905 Yeah, with the AR-style paddle bolt catch and mags that can be seated even when fully loaded, the notch on the UMP is redundant anyway. The only practical purpose I can think of to keep it around is for one-handed malfunction clearing, since trying to lock the bolt open with only one hand is extremely difficult with a paddle bolt catch.
Yes and no. It's a straight blow back and thus simplified compared to RDB but all the guns you list were open bolt operated. The UMP is firing off a closed bolt. That makes an enormous difference in accuracy and recoil characteristics. But it's cheaper and simpler both in design and in the more extensive use of polymer, which of course makes it lighter. I think H&K saw it as a successor to the MP5 but the MP5 was just so good that users said NOPE. But that doesn't mean the UMP isn't a great gun. It is.
The agency that I retired from brought six UMP-40's and the bean counter that purchased them intended for them to issued to patrol supervisors. That was until they arrived at the department and someone realized that they were automatic weapons, so they transitioned them to us on SWAT. I carried the UMP for a short amount of time and I just didn't like it when fired on auto. When I carried a MP-5, that little wonder was like firing a laser but the UMP just jumped. You really had to lock in with your stance to hold it decently on target. It felt so poorly when fired on auto that our Team commander directed that they were to remain on semi at all times, so in other words, it was just a really large pistol. I wasn't all of that broken up when I was told I had to turn it in for a M-4.
IIRC, the UMP was designed as a cheaper alternative to the MP5, not necessarily a "better" one. They went for about $800 to LE agencies in the mid-2000's, almost half that of their roller-delayed brethren. The inclusion of .40 and .45 I believe was specifically made to target the American market, since the return of 9mm as the primary pistol caliber for stateside LE was still more than a decade away. From a design perspective and with the above priorities in mind, I think one of the things HK could have done to improve the UMP significantly for almost no cost was to lengthen the receiver towards the rear. Increasing the cycle distance would improve controllability dramatically. The M3 Grease Gun has a cycle distance of ~6 inches, and in my opinion is at least as controllable as an MP5. A polymer bodied, closed-bolt, constant recoil, ergonomic .45 ACP submachine gun with the MP5's exceptional controllability might have just been the modern Grease Gun that America needed (at least before doctrinal shift to semi-automatic carbines and the rise of the short barreled AR).
the most interesting feature of the ump really isnt the ump itself but the fact that it could be easily manufactured for a low price, nearly perfect smg/pdw for armies or police forces
@@madkoala2130 Mostly because it failed and they significantly ramped back production and scale, therefore increasing price for private collectors. HK doing HK things, as per usual.
@@madkoala2130 well its a fake price mark up, caused by import laws and hk brand name, this could have been made by the likes of keltec for half the price
@@shootinbruin3614 You weren't paying for nothing though. The ump will always get compared to the mp5 especially since they'll be on the same catalogue and it'll always come across as the econo sub where you know you're cheaping out for an option that is sitting directly next to the one you'd rather be reaching for. It probably would have performed better without the direct comparison being right there. Even if you are concious of the bargain you're getting for the price, you'll still be thinking it constantly.
Honestly I think HK could just add the bolt release from the mp5-40, to the 9mm version, I think its really the only thing holding it back from competing with modern designs
Ya know, I've been talking myself both into and out of doing a USC to UMP build for years. This video does nothing for the "out of" argument. Thanks guys...
bingo. an economy model designed for groups with less money and infrastructure. it does what it was meant to do well, but it gets compared to a gun designed purely for performance, which is an apples to oranges scenario.
Being a .45 fan, I was excited when the UMP came out. I got one from HK for testing, and it was nice, but definitely not as smooth as the MP5. I wouldn't mind carrying one, but the MP5 is still the gold standard.
This is the main shoulder weapon of our local police here, in 9mm This replace the Pm beretta M12, very old weapon. it's very appreciated. It's light, very accurate, low rof so very easy to control. The weapon can make an Ak47 pass for a complex weapon. I cannot here that the recoil is bad in a 9mm shoulder weapon. Especialy for it. There is no 45acp here so i cannot express myself on it. The trigger is a bit heavy but for police work it's perfect.
Full auto UMP's are one of the most unpleasant SMG's I've ever fired in my life. It's like shouldering a paint shaker. I'm talking about .45ACP. Evaluating the semi-auto versions is just silly to me. With the exception of the Kriss Vector, they are the most modern .45ACP SMG, but it's quite likely the least viable SMG of them all, imho. They are terrible in automatic fire. With that kind of recoil you might as well run an short barrel rifle, which is exactly what every SWAT team ended up doing after they got rid of these.
That's not surprising, I think they also subsequently released the UMP-9 too, which helped significantly with that issue. .45 ACP is just not a particularly good round in general because it doesn't do any one particular thing great... but regardless of the system, the caliber matters a lot - even the MP5-10 was short lived due to that recoil problem. The AR-15 is a recoil mitigating system by design, and generally has superior characteristics because of that. That said, you're also dealing with a buffer tube and generally longer barrel, so it has it's disadvantages, although those can obviously be mitigated through modification easier.
Don't have a lot of experience with SMGs but got a chance to shoot both the MP5 and UMP full auto in Miami. Having never done a mag dump in my life, I was surprised at how controllable the UMP was. Definitely was a lot harder than the MP5 but not nearly as bad as I was led to believe it would be. But the MP5 was great from the jump. Again, have almost no full auto experience so hard for me to really gauge but once the UMP got rolling it was manageable.
@@Chuckus69 The UMP45 was the first full auto I ever shot like a decade ago and I also found it to be pretty controllable as a first timer. I couldn't mag dump it, but it was easy to put 4-5 shot bursts all on target.
@Chuckus69 Well, most full auto guns fired in long bursts can be controlled once you realize how much pressure to hold on it. But all other things being equal, the gun with less recoil will be better
I think for many people who end up carrying 99.9999% of the time without needing to shoot....the lighter weight is appreciated even though that same weight reduction means it's going to jump around more than a heavier gun will. Everything has a tradeoff. Super light weight carry guns aren't nearly as easy or pleasant to shoot as full size all steel....but we still carry the light ones because that's what we're doing most of the time.
Tried a select fire ump45 in Vegas and it was harder to keep on target than a 7,62x51 M60e4, I felt my teeth rattling. If I had to use it in combat I would never switch it off semi. At the same time here in Italy a few Swat type law enforcement units run Ump9 and love the low weight, reliability and semi auto accuracy past 50m and never touch the full auto setting like they did with their m-12s
My former (european) police department used UMP9’s. So I’m quite familiar with them. They are excellent and light PCC’s. I also have a lot experience with MP5’s but I’d prefer the UMP9. The UMP feels lighter and you can’t cut your hands on the polymer UMP mags. I guess full auto would be a different story, but semi is a pretty equal experience.
I really love the UMP45. Always loved the look and feel. It was also the first full auto I ever shot and it was surprisingly controllable for a first timer. Having a bolt catch/release is also a nice bonus.
I played with a UMP-45 with the fun trigger pack several years ago. Thing was super fun. I’m a complete novice with machine guns and I was able to get that down to a science. Wish I could have one…
There is another part of the Scorpion that you can monitor to ensure it wont fire OOB- a safety plunger on the bottom of the bolt is sometimes out of spec, allowing the firing pin to move forward when the bolt is OOB. If you contact CZ about this, they will send a replacement, mine is now working correctly. Search "The Uncouth Truth Scorpion" to see someone break it down.
I think it works well as a semi auto pcc. Everytime i have seen reviews, they are invariably the auto version. Auto is like a rocking horse, probably one of the least controllable sub guns., but in semi it seems to not do that. Our one we had felt very plastic, but it really took a beating that the mp5's lovely machining would have died on. More i say.
I think that while the MP5 definitely recoils less, simply having less recoil isn’t automatically an improvement. To me, having less recoil brings three potential benefits: - Control in full auto - The gun physically exerting less force into the shooter’s shoulder - The sight picture moving around less during the firing cycle and returning to center quickly / more consistently For 99.9% of civilian shooters, full auto performance is not a concern. This means that as long as a gun isn’t physically uncomfortable to shoot (like a lot of direct blowback PCC’s), and returns to center in a fast, predictable manner (like we saw with Josh’s shooting today)… then what does it actually matter if it has more recoil than the MP5? Being able to dump 20 rounds into an A-zone at 25 yards is more than good enough for a PCC, so I’m genuinely curious what objective benefits “less recoil” would bring to the table. Is the UMP’s recoil impulse as good as the MP5? No. Is it worse enough that it will actually make a difference? Personally, I think not.
Great gun for the people that want it. What is it to argue about? They want it, they get it. Some may go a complete other caliber in a platform in similar weight to do a different job. It is all great in the end of the day. I would buy it, but then I would buy whatever the hoho was interresting to me. Kudos to everyone that do, and have the availability to do so.
I have a Tommybuilt UMP and a couple MP5 clones. Even though the MP5 is an older design, it is far and away better than the UMP in every way. The UMP is massively aesthetic though, so it does have that going for it. It just looks cool.
I feel like y'all are going to have a Stribog, specifically an A3, on sooner rather than later. More roller delay goodness. I imagine one of the radial delayed CMMG's will come after.
I don’t think the UMP is the best SMG out there but it’s always been one of the most fascinating and iconic SMGs to me since Modern Warfare. I’ll always be a huge fan of UMP45 and UMP9, UMP40 is interesting as well!
45 ACP is the best sub gun caliber. All off the shelf ammo is subsonic AND full power. It’s lethal about 50 yards further than full power 9mm while also being subsonic. You can buy or build your own 45 to 10mm power. It’s more readily available in the beginning of ammo shortages when 9mm and 5.56 are off the shelves.
In ammo shortages, everything is unavailable. Also, how do you figure it's lethal at longer ranges? Both cartridges will stay lethal at ranges way further than you will be able to make hits.
@@lardomcfarty9866to your first point, I’ve lived through about a dozen ammo shortages and scares and IN THE BEGINNING , as I said above, you can still find 45 acp ammo as most people start hoarding 9mm and 5.56. As the shortages go on, this advantage disappears, but having a few extra days to get what you need is a big advantage. 45 ACP is seen as a fudd cartridge and funds don’t usually buy a lot of ammo, the tacticool crowd does. The same is true of shotgun shells. During Covid, I still saw 45 acp and buck shot on the shelves for quite a while after all the 9mm and 5.56 were gone. If you didn’t, it’s probably because you weren’t looking for it or started looking too late. As to longer distance lethality, I’m talking about reliable hits to center mass, not hoping to hit an eyeball at 1000 yards or lobbing a bullet into someone’s dome at 500. 9mm ball drops below 250 lbft energy at around 100 yards. 45 acp ball drops below 250 lbft at 250 yards and still has over 300 lbft energy at 150 yards (which incidentally is almost as much as 9mm ball at the muzzle) I know a center mass hit with 300 lbft energy will reliably kill human sized animals, I’ve done it a couple times on mule deer and one mountain lion that weighed over 200lbs. . (Lung shot with a 1911 at 90 or so yards) I would not dare try it with a 9mm at 1/4 that distance. This isn’t a caliber war and we aren’t talking about handguns., inside a home or room clearing, 9mm is great and I’d probably take it over 45 but in a scenario where you have a small personal defense weapon and aren’t thinking of it only as a “backup”. An xtra 50-100 yards above 250 lbft energy is a nice thing to have. I can fairly reliably hit an 8” gong at 200 yards with my B&T 45 ACP Pro and hit an IPSC target at 250 pretty easily so these ranges aren’t out of reach with a sub gun if that’s all I had.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood you will have trouble hitting someone with .45 at 150. It drops like a rock. Also, something under even 100 ft lbs can certainly put you in the dirt, granted terminal ballistics isn't always an exact science. As far as availability, that would largely depend on where you live. Where I lived, immediately after covid, literally the only common round you might find was .40, but probably not. A lot of weird stuff like .38 acp and 7.65 luger, weird stuff like that. As far as rifle ammo, also obscure hunting rounds.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood no need to get nasty, bro. If I want a handgun cartridge for 100 yards personally, it's going to be a magnum revolver or 10mm. That's just me. I'm sure you are a better shot, so you can make .45 work. That's good for you.
Cheaper alternative to MP5. It got to the point where H&K were spending so much money to make MP5s, it was no longer seen as profitable. So they offered everyone UMPs, and everyone collectively went: “That’s cool; we want more MP5s.”
Can you blame them? Mp5 vs UMP is like comparing a custom 1911 that is also extremely reliable to a S&W SW40VE or whatever the fuck that glorified Sigma with the stainless slide is called that occupies significant space in police evidence rooms nationwide.
Like Henry says, it's made by H&K, it's about the size of a MP5, it seems to fill the same usage environment. Yes of course people felt it was an attempt at improving on the MP5. And in ways it does! Last shot hold open, multiple calibers capable with cheaper and easier parts list, it's lighter. So I can see how people will compare it to the MP5. It would be real interesting to see how it feels when firing 9mm just to take the added power of .40 S&W out of the equation. 9mm is loosing a bit in the game of ballistics and personal protection, so a stouter round is interesting. Now if that should be .40 S&W, 10mm or .40 or .45 Super is another question. 10mm seems capable and the .40 super was about as powerful as the .44 Magnum but with a lighter bullet and higher velocity it should do well against body armor with the right bullets. Now these two guns should be compared with the same ammunition. I don't know how far up the ladder the MP5 can be adapted to fire, but 10mm seems like it might be possible.
I still want one even though they have issues with the charging handle lock on the receiver. Ump45 best girl, btw. Also, bf3 nostalgia called. They said it needs an eotech, afg and suppressor.
What are your toughts on the Beretta PMX? I want to get a nice pcc for plinking at the range and where I live I can get the PMXs with 3 mags for around 1100€ compared to getting a much cooler but pricier SP5 for 2900€ and 100€ for each mags. (I could also get a mke mp5k clone for 1600€ but I heard their quality is hit or miss)
the USC i shot (.45) had quite possibly the WORST trigger i have EVER experienced. People talk about "staple gun trigger" and now i understand what they mean.
Change the stock so it comes directly back from the receiver and then raise the sights like the AR and you will have less felt recoil. It will also be a different gun and better than HK made.
I have been eyeing the compact version. I like the idea of an MP5K due to its size, and the M9A3 compact is within an inch in length and can be fitted with AR grips, triggers, and Evo3 mags with a different lower.
The idea of some A team in Iraq running around with UMP45s stacking bodies is fucking awesome... One of my favourite guns and instant nostalgia from the 00s
Caliber conversion seems to never get used so maybe it would’ve been better off designing the gun around one caliber but this was also around the time where people thought 9 mm was anemic and 40 was becoming widespread understandable that they give people choice during a period of flux
My sole issue with the USC is the price. If they were $1500 and came as a pistol like the SP-5, I'd love them so much, but for the price of buying a USC and converting it into a bare UMP I could get a CMMG Dissent/Banshee with an Aimpoint PRO and a gucci trigger.
My experience shooting the UMP is that you do need to fight the recoil. It's not unbearable, but you definitely need to put in a concerted effort. Compared to something like an MP5 or even a CMMG Banshee, it's considerably more brisk. You can feel the bolt hitting the back and when it slams forward. You can learn to run it fast, but it will take a lot of rounds and trigger time.
My experience is that there is no comparison between the two, totally different weapons. The UMP is simply a polymer pcc with a very heavy bolt using simple blowback. The one thing I hated with the ump is you feel the impulse as the bolt hits rear extreme travel, and again as it slams forward into battery. Very reliable but not nearly as refined as an mp5.
Have you shot the B&t, LWRC, Kriss Vector? If so how do they compare. The one thing I like about the AR is the caliber conversion. One trip to the range I'm firing 9mm, 5.56, 300 BO, or any other cals. It's like golfing.
16:35 I had that happen to me last week at the range with some work buddies. Guy went out to shoot after he and I were trouble shooting his Glock build and began firing when I didn't have my earpro on. I had to immediately plug my ear with my fingers. After he fired his string he turned and saw me plugging my ears and apologized.
Interesting that a heavier subgun has a lighter bolt and a lighter subgun has a heavier bolt... Interested to see a vid on a .45 UMP and a bullet trajectory analysis.
It's not often that I disagree with Henry's commentary but in this case, I respectfully disagree. I don't think that it's valid to say that the MP5 is a sedan and that the UMP is a pickup. Directly comparing the UMP9 and MP5 is relevant as the two products were designed and marketed to fill the same role. Both the MP5 and UMP were designed, manufactured , marketed, and deployed as submachine guns (Maschinenpistole and Universale Maschinenpistole, respectively). While the ability to swap barrels and magazines is an interesting feature, it is also a feature that few end-users will seriously leverage. The real benefit to the end-user is cost reduction due to simplified manufacturing along with some weight savings. I suspect that most end-users will buy a UMP9, UMP40, or UMP45 and stick with the cartridge that they bought it with. The main advantage of the UMP is H&K's ability to use a polymer frame and have common tooling for the vast majority of the parts and the ability to provide them in three calibers with maximum parts commonality. This keeps costs down and maximizes product availability compared to creating new stamped steel tooling for two additional sizes of MP[#] for .40 S&W and .45 Auto. H&K may have marketed the caliber swap as a feature but it's arguably just clever marketing with no real practicality; the real purpose was simplified manufacturing. The maintenance differences between the direct blowback UMP and the roller-delayed blowback MP5 may be more significant to a unit armorer servicing a significantly large inventory for heavy-use end-users but I'm not sure that an individual owner would be constrained by MP5 maintenance schedules. Therefore, comparing the UMP9 and the MP5 is fair. Advantages: UMP9 lighter UMP9 cheaper UMP9 bolt hold open UMP9 bolt release UMP9 safety UMP9 ease of rail configuration MP5 recoil controllability / accuracy in auto MP5 rate of fire MP5 iron sights And unique to the USA because of laws: *MP5 civilian NFA transferable as an auto, UMP forever restricted to post dealer sales For me, the controllability is what sets the MP5 above all other SMGs
Imo, UMP is a more modern easy to maintain standard sedan that has poorer handling but makes up for it for its cheap manufacturing and low cost and requisite maintenance... The MP5 is more of an older luxury sedan, it handles better, has the leather interior and generally extremely svelte... but you are going to have to pay for the more expensive parts and higher cost of maintenance.
I will never regret the money I spent getting a UMP45 conversion through Tom Bostic, I will also never except criticism of what is clearly the best PCC ever created.
!["SMGs Are Pointless, We Have Rifle Calibers" [Range Talk] feat. Big Tex Ord](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/69zhJTAMaac/mqdefault.jpg)
!["SMGs Are Pointless, We Have Rifle Calibers" [Range Talk] feat. Big Tex Ord](/img/tr.png)
![How Much Better is a PDW vs Pistol [Range Talk]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kExTjz6e1q4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Roller Delayed Guns Better or Worse? Feat: AK4D, HK93, MP5 vs SCAR, URGI, AR9 [Range Talk]](/img/1.gif)
Just some updates:
-This UMP has been converted to 45 and shoots much smoother than .40S&W.
- No regurts on the UMP, it's a sweet shooter for a 45 ACP SMG/PCC. Long form review in progress.
- Magazines are also being tested. Really expensive testing here with cases of defensive HXTs being slung downrange (ugh).
- Special thanks to Tommy Built for helping me square ths away!
- the UMP 45 looks BADASSSSSSSSSSSS still. Bad Boys for life.
Awesome comments so far, keep them coming, I like reading them and thinking more about how i can review this firearm more comprehensively.
IMO, if HK's primary market for the UMP was US government entities, it would have been better to design it in the framework of a modern M3 Grease Gun, cheap, easy to use, and controllable. It really wouldn't be all that different from the UMP as it exists, just with a longer receiver for the bolt to travel in. The Grease Gun has a cycle distance of about 6 inches, and the resulting low ROF and near constant recoil operation is what makes the blowback .45 M3 at least as controllable as the roller delayed 9mm MP5--at least in my experience.
The UMP was released at a time when submachine guns were still in vogue, the terminal performance of 9mm compared to larger handgun rounds was still in question, and before intermediate rifle caliber carbines became the norm. In this context, a polymer bodied, closed-bolt, constant recoil, ergonomic .45 ACP submachine gun with the MP5's exceptional controllability might have just been the modern Grease Gun that America needed (at least before doctrinal shift to semi-automatic carbines and the rise of the short barreled AR). Love your videos
Well I shit on the UMP pretty hard. But if it makes you feel cool then you can't put a price on that. Well you can in most cases, but you know what I mean. BTW, I'm also a fellow Asian, half Korean, and Walther P99AS carrier. Also I don't shoot nearly as good as you do. Which means my opinions are less than useless. Which would actually mean they're hurtful. Which I'm sure they're not. So they're right at useless I guess. Love your videos anyway
MP5K is my fav, it's the perfect size for 9mm.
9-Hole Reviews you should take the UMP9 to compare with the MP5A3. Not the UMP45. Due to 9mm VS 9mm is fair to fair in comparison is better.
Did you get the tungsten weight of a UMP bolt or is it a stock USC bolt? There is some difference to the recoil impulse with the UMP’s bolt with the anti bolt bounce weight added
Welcome to another episode of Josh shooting fast and Henry eating brass
Switching sides even once would undermine the brand at this point
How about you go mow some grass, or fish for some bass, go on a date with a lass, maybe attend a mass?
*ass
🤣🤣🤣
It's a tradition no?
1. The ump has a g36 like trigger because the trigger is just modified g36 trigger.
2. The Ump wasn't supposed to replace the mp5 but be a cheaper alternative. H&k was kinda broke so they wanted a cheaper gun to design and make. Thats why its blow back and takes ques from the g36. The caliber swap was also included so they could sell to as many police departments without having to design a new gun for each caliber.
UMP vs MP5 feels like that one top gear meme. "this is brilliant.... but I like this"
UMP love is irrational
@@9HoleReviewsnah, you gave a good reason: Benicio del Toro (1:21).
@@9HoleReviews isn’t all Love irrational?
I have around 6000 rounds through a select-fire UMP45. The best way to emulate the sensation it gives on full auto is to put a brick inside a shoebox and shake it as hard as you can. The bolt weighs 27.5 oz., almost double that of an AR BCG with a carbine buffer. Even with a relatively low ROF, sight picture is difficult to track mid-burst. The entire front sight assembly--including the hood--disappears into a translucent smudge and the red dot reminds me of one of those laser shows I used to watch as a kid. Outside of something like a Micro Uzi or Ingram, it was the most useless automatic I've had the experience of shooting.
Hogue used to make an AR stock adapter for the UMP, and putting an Enidine shotgun buffer assembly in place of the standard buffer tube helped significantly, but even then the UMP (at least in 45) it was far better used exclusively as a semi. The trigger is heavy, but has a shorter travel than the MP5's, and if you're used to stock AR triggers it isn't that bad. The UMP I used was exceptionally accurate, printing 2 MOA at 50 yards with Federal JHPs. And despite having double-stack, single feed magazines and no feed ramp to speak of, it was extremely reliable. Still, there's a reason MP5s are still around while the UMP barely exists anymore.
P.S. Don't make a habit of HK slapping the UMP. That plastic notch will wear through real fast!
actually yeah that's a really good comparison, on auto these really do feel like a brick in a shoebox. Also to mirror your experience, lots of early GWOT dudes in IRQ actually really liked using the UMP, but it was almost exclusively used on semi. After running this UMP in 45 (after this video's filming) I would agree that I prefer the 45 and in 45 it is very manageable in semi.
+1000 on the notch wearing out. On my team we had six UMP-40's and MP-5 shooters who were issued one, went through the same manual of arms until our armorer recognized the damage that was happening to the bolt hold open notch. I agree about it being accurate however no one was really upset when we transitioned to M-4's.
Our PD has a few and issue round is HST+p. Accurate and reliable.
@@9HoleReviews If I recall correctly, the UMP45 and UMP9 have bolt masses tailored to their respective calibers while the UMP40 shares its bolt mass with the latter. This is why the 9 and .45 have relatively low rates of fire of ~600rpm while the .40 cycles at around 700.
I wrote this in a separate comment, but if HK just lengthened the receiver to give the bolt more room to travel, they could've given us a closed bolt, modern Grease Gun with dramatically increased controllability in full auto compared to the UMP in its current form.
@@c.r.chandler5905 Yeah, with the AR-style paddle bolt catch and mags that can be seated even when fully loaded, the notch on the UMP is redundant anyway. The only practical purpose I can think of to keep it around is for one-handed malfunction clearing, since trying to lock the bolt open with only one hand is extremely difficult with a paddle bolt catch.
2:37 “if we’re talking about sub guns, it’s a “shit on the scorpion” video!”
2:33
The more I look at the UMP series, the more I see how analogous it is to wartime designs such as the Grease Gun, Sten, and PPS-43.
In that it is straight blowback, but not much else
@@chrisf247 simplified/cheaper manufacturing is a big one there.
Yes and no. It's a straight blow back and thus simplified compared to RDB but all the guns you list were open bolt operated. The UMP is firing off a closed bolt. That makes an enormous difference in accuracy and recoil characteristics.
But it's cheaper and simpler both in design and in the more extensive use of polymer, which of course makes it lighter. I think H&K saw it as a successor to the MP5 but the MP5 was just so good that users said NOPE. But that doesn't mean the UMP isn't a great gun. It is.
UMP is for big boys
Box instead of toob.
The agency that I retired from brought six UMP-40's and the bean counter that purchased them intended for them to issued to patrol supervisors. That was until they arrived at the department and someone realized that they were automatic weapons, so they transitioned them to us on SWAT. I carried the UMP for a short amount of time and I just didn't like it when fired on auto. When I carried a MP-5, that little wonder was like firing a laser but the UMP just jumped. You really had to lock in with your stance to hold it decently on target. It felt so poorly when fired on auto that our Team commander directed that they were to remain on semi at all times, so in other words, it was just a really large pistol. I wasn't all of that broken up when I was told I had to turn it in for a M-4.
I have a select fire ump9 - come on out 🦅
IIRC, the UMP was designed as a cheaper alternative to the MP5, not necessarily a "better" one. They went for about $800 to LE agencies in the mid-2000's, almost half that of their roller-delayed brethren. The inclusion of .40 and .45 I believe was specifically made to target the American market, since the return of 9mm as the primary pistol caliber for stateside LE was still more than a decade away.
From a design perspective and with the above priorities in mind, I think one of the things HK could have done to improve the UMP significantly for almost no cost was to lengthen the receiver towards the rear. Increasing the cycle distance would improve controllability dramatically. The M3 Grease Gun has a cycle distance of ~6 inches, and in my opinion is at least as controllable as an MP5. A polymer bodied, closed-bolt, constant recoil, ergonomic .45 ACP submachine gun with the MP5's exceptional controllability might have just been the modern Grease Gun that America needed (at least before doctrinal shift to semi-automatic carbines and the rise of the short barreled AR).
It ain’t a 9-Hole vid, without Henry getting rained on with brass. Keep up the great work. I always look forward to the new vids.
that smirk at 4:12, Josh knows what he has been doing.
the most interesting feature of the ump really isnt the ump itself but the fact that it could be easily manufactured for a low price, nearly perfect smg/pdw for armies or police forces
yet its still one of the most expensive SMGs/PDWs on the market.
@@madkoala2130 Mostly because it failed and they significantly ramped back production and scale, therefore increasing price for private collectors. HK doing HK things, as per usual.
@@madkoala2130 well its a fake price mark up, caused by import laws and hk brand name, this could have been made by the likes of keltec for half the price
@@madkoala2130 UMPs were about $800 for LE agencies in the mid-2000's. MP5s were almost double the price during the same period
@@shootinbruin3614
You weren't paying for nothing though. The ump will always get compared to the mp5 especially since they'll be on the same catalogue and it'll always come across as the econo sub where you know you're cheaping out for an option that is sitting directly next to the one you'd rather be reaching for. It probably would have performed better without the direct comparison being right there. Even if you are concious of the bargain you're getting for the price, you'll still be thinking it constantly.
Honestly I think HK could just add the bolt release from the mp5-40, to the 9mm version, I think its really the only thing holding it back from competing with modern designs
this
Trigger too
Along with the shit trigger, the lack of pic rail and the shitty factory handguards but yeah, everything else😂
@@wildcat8598 eh all that stuff is pretty easily added aftermarket, bolt catches on magazines etc not so much
Disagree, that bolt release is the thing I hate the most about my 10mm and 40 MP5.
Ya know, I've been talking myself both into and out of doing a USC to UMP build for years. This video does nothing for the "out of" argument. Thanks guys...
Do it!!!
It was made to be cheaper not better. It is. It is not.
bingo. an economy model designed for groups with less money and infrastructure. it does what it was meant to do well, but it gets compared to a gun designed purely for performance, which is an apples to oranges scenario.
I think everyone decided the UMP doesn't beat the MP5. But that doesn't mean it isn't cool.
THIS
That indeed doesn't mean it. It's the visually awkward design that makes it not cool... =)
(To each their own, of course!)
@@jubuttib you are in a very small minority
@@MUCKLEECH Probably, but it doesn't really matter. They're just guns after all. =)
@@jubuttib then why even comment? You're so weird bro
Being a .45 fan, I was excited when the UMP came out. I got one from HK for testing, and it was nice, but definitely not as smooth as the MP5. I wouldn't mind carrying one, but the MP5 is still the gold standard.
This is the main shoulder weapon of our local police here, in 9mm
This replace the Pm beretta M12, very old weapon.
it's very appreciated. It's light, very accurate, low rof so very easy to control. The weapon can make an Ak47 pass for a complex weapon. I cannot here that the recoil is bad in a 9mm shoulder weapon. Especialy for it. There is no 45acp here so i cannot express myself on it. The trigger is a bit heavy but for police work it's perfect.
Full auto UMP's are one of the most unpleasant SMG's I've ever fired in my life. It's like shouldering a paint shaker. I'm talking about .45ACP. Evaluating the semi-auto versions is just silly to me. With the exception of the Kriss Vector, they are the most modern .45ACP SMG, but it's quite likely the least viable SMG of them all, imho. They are terrible in automatic fire. With that kind of recoil you might as well run an short barrel rifle, which is exactly what every SWAT team ended up doing after they got rid of these.
That's not surprising, I think they also subsequently released the UMP-9 too, which helped significantly with that issue. .45 ACP is just not a particularly good round in general because it doesn't do any one particular thing great... but regardless of the system, the caliber matters a lot - even the MP5-10 was short lived due to that recoil problem. The AR-15 is a recoil mitigating system by design, and generally has superior characteristics because of that. That said, you're also dealing with a buffer tube and generally longer barrel, so it has it's disadvantages, although those can obviously be mitigated through modification easier.
Maybe that’s what they are missing here.
Don't have a lot of experience with SMGs but got a chance to shoot both the MP5 and UMP full auto in Miami.
Having never done a mag dump in my life, I was surprised at how controllable the UMP was. Definitely was a lot harder than the MP5 but not nearly as bad as I was led to believe it would be.
But the MP5 was great from the jump. Again, have almost no full auto experience so hard for me to really gauge but once the UMP got rolling it was manageable.
@@Chuckus69 The UMP45 was the first full auto I ever shot like a decade ago and I also found it to be pretty controllable as a first timer. I couldn't mag dump it, but it was easy to put 4-5 shot bursts all on target.
@Chuckus69 Well, most full auto guns fired in long bursts can be controlled once you realize how much pressure to hold on it. But all other things being equal, the gun with less recoil will be better
Man you guys put out great content.
I think for many people who end up carrying 99.9999% of the time without needing to shoot....the lighter weight is appreciated even though that same weight reduction means it's going to jump around more than a heavier gun will. Everything has a tradeoff. Super light weight carry guns aren't nearly as easy or pleasant to shoot as full size all steel....but we still carry the light ones because that's what we're doing most of the time.
Tried a select fire ump45 in Vegas and it was harder to keep on target than a 7,62x51 M60e4, I felt my teeth rattling. If I had to use it in combat I would never switch it off semi. At the same time here in Italy a few Swat type law enforcement units run Ump9 and love the low weight, reliability and semi auto accuracy past 50m and never touch the full auto setting like they did with their m-12s
My former (european) police department used UMP9’s. So I’m quite familiar with them. They are excellent and light PCC’s. I also have a lot experience with MP5’s but I’d prefer the UMP9. The UMP feels lighter and you can’t cut your hands on the polymer UMP mags. I guess full auto would be a different story, but semi is a pretty equal experience.
Thanks for the explanation of you rearranging the UMP’s guts
Especially because he is Asian.
I really love the UMP45. Always loved the look and feel. It was also the first full auto I ever shot and it was surprisingly controllable for a first timer. Having a bolt catch/release is also a nice bonus.
That is the rarest caliber conversion in America.... gotta catch em all! H&K-mon!
I played with a UMP-45 with the fun trigger pack several years ago. Thing was super fun. I’m a complete novice with machine guns and I was able to get that down to a science. Wish I could have one…
I have very limited experience with the UMP but I did prefer the MP5 myself.
I love the UMP, but hate the trigger. It's not impossible to work with, but its very heavy.
Shot a few mags on a UPM 40 this year, you described the recoil perfectly. The forward motion of the bolt puts you exactly back on target
You can blame the AFT for the Scorpion missing the piece that holds the hammer until the bolt is fully closed. Muh auto sear!
F*** the feds.
Yep. Out of battery safety should be mandatory and anyone hurt by an out of battery should be able to sue the ATF
There is another part of the Scorpion that you can monitor to ensure it wont fire OOB- a safety plunger on the bottom of the bolt is sometimes out of spec, allowing the firing pin to move forward when the bolt is OOB.
If you contact CZ about this, they will send a replacement, mine is now working correctly.
Search "The Uncouth Truth Scorpion" to see someone break it down.
Ive always wanted one of these. Its totes rule-of-cool, but Id carry it too.
I got me a B&T APC9 instead. Entertaining and informative as always.
Nice review. LOL at Henry taking all that brass so close to his face.
I think it works well as a semi auto pcc. Everytime i have seen reviews, they are invariably the auto version. Auto is like a rocking horse, probably one of the least controllable sub guns., but in semi it seems to not do that. Our one we had felt very plastic, but it really took a beating that the mp5's lovely machining would have died on. More i say.
I think that while the MP5 definitely recoils less, simply having less recoil isn’t automatically an improvement. To me, having less recoil brings three potential benefits:
- Control in full auto
- The gun physically exerting less force into the shooter’s shoulder
- The sight picture moving around less during the firing cycle and returning to center quickly / more consistently
For 99.9% of civilian shooters, full auto performance is not a concern. This means that as long as a gun isn’t physically uncomfortable to shoot (like a lot of direct blowback PCC’s), and returns to center in a fast, predictable manner (like we saw with Josh’s shooting today)… then what does it actually matter if it has more recoil than the MP5? Being able to dump 20 rounds into an A-zone at 25 yards is more than good enough for a PCC, so I’m genuinely curious what objective benefits “less recoil” would bring to the table.
Is the UMP’s recoil impulse as good as the MP5? No. Is it worse enough that it will actually make a difference? Personally, I think not.
Great gun for the people that want it. What is it to argue about? They want it, they get it. Some may go a complete other caliber in a platform in similar weight to do a different job. It is all great in the end of the day. I would buy it, but then I would buy whatever the hoho was interresting to me. Kudos to everyone that do, and have the availability to do so.
I’m building a UMP 45 and I’m so happy to see a new video on the platform. Thanks Henry!
9-Hole is my favorite channel!
I have a Tommybuilt UMP and a couple MP5 clones. Even though the MP5 is an older design, it is far and away better than the UMP in every way. The UMP is massively aesthetic though, so it does have that going for it. It just looks cool.
I've wanted a video like this for a long time. Very nice.
I've always loved the UMP. Such a cool PCC. I want you to do an in depth video when it's in .45 and have it suppressed. :)
I feel like y'all are going to have a Stribog, specifically an A3, on sooner rather than later. More roller delay goodness.
I imagine one of the radial delayed CMMG's will come after.
Thats what im waiting on.
I knew the answer before I clicked the video 😂 mp5 for the win 🥇
I don’t think the UMP is the best SMG out there but it’s always been one of the most fascinating and iconic SMGs to me since Modern Warfare. I’ll always be a huge fan of UMP45 and UMP9, UMP40 is interesting as well!
45 ACP is the best sub gun caliber.
All off the shelf ammo is subsonic AND full power. It’s lethal about 50 yards further than full power 9mm while also being subsonic.
You can buy or build your own 45 to 10mm power. It’s more readily available in the beginning of ammo shortages when 9mm and 5.56 are off the shelves.
In ammo shortages, everything is unavailable. Also, how do you figure it's lethal at longer ranges? Both cartridges will stay lethal at ranges way further than you will be able to make hits.
@@lardomcfarty9866to your first point, I’ve lived through about a dozen ammo shortages and scares and IN THE BEGINNING , as I said above, you can still find 45 acp ammo as most people start hoarding 9mm and 5.56. As the shortages go on, this advantage disappears, but having a few extra days to get what you need is a big advantage. 45 ACP is seen as a fudd cartridge and funds don’t usually buy a lot of ammo, the tacticool crowd does. The same is true of shotgun shells. During Covid, I still saw 45 acp and buck shot on the shelves for quite a while after all the 9mm and 5.56 were gone. If you didn’t, it’s probably because you weren’t looking for it or started looking too late.
As to longer distance lethality, I’m talking about reliable hits to center mass, not hoping to hit an eyeball at 1000 yards or lobbing a bullet into someone’s dome at 500.
9mm ball drops below 250 lbft energy at around 100 yards. 45 acp ball drops below 250 lbft at 250 yards and still has over 300 lbft energy at 150 yards (which incidentally is almost as much as 9mm ball at the muzzle)
I know a center mass hit with 300 lbft energy will reliably kill human sized animals, I’ve done it a couple times on mule deer and one mountain lion that weighed over 200lbs. . (Lung shot with a 1911 at 90 or so yards) I would not dare try it with a 9mm at 1/4 that distance.
This isn’t a caliber war and we aren’t talking about handguns., inside a home or room clearing, 9mm is great and I’d probably take it over 45 but in a scenario where you have a small personal defense weapon and aren’t thinking of it only as a “backup”. An xtra 50-100 yards above 250 lbft energy is a nice thing to have.
I can fairly reliably hit an 8” gong at 200 yards with my B&T 45 ACP Pro and hit an IPSC target at 250 pretty easily so these ranges aren’t out of reach with a sub gun if that’s all I had.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood you will have trouble hitting someone with .45 at 150. It drops like a rock. Also, something under even 100 ft lbs can certainly put you in the dirt, granted terminal ballistics isn't always an exact science. As far as availability, that would largely depend on where you live. Where I lived, immediately after covid, literally the only common round you might find was .40, but probably not. A lot of weird stuff like .38 acp and 7.65 luger, weird stuff like that. As far as rifle ammo, also obscure hunting rounds.
@@lardomcfarty9866. Since you can’t read I suppose there is no point.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood no need to get nasty, bro. If I want a handgun cartridge for 100 yards personally, it's going to be a magnum revolver or 10mm. That's just me. I'm sure you are a better shot, so you can make .45 work. That's good for you.
At the size weight of the UMP it’s time to choose 300blk instead.
Exactly.
Took Henry 10 minutes of standing to the right of Josh to remember his eye pro... lol. Henry, call dibs on the left and return the favor!
Thanks, y'all, Henry and Josh. From an old man who's only real eternal love is the MP5. 👍😊👍
Great video!! Always love your content. Queation: What mount and optic are you using on your Ump, please?
No, it does not. Roller delay blowback FTW.
I'll take questions that were answered at product release for $600, Alex. What was the point of this exactly?
Cheaper alternative to MP5. It got to the point where H&K were spending so much money to make MP5s, it was no longer seen as profitable. So they offered everyone UMPs, and everyone collectively went: “That’s cool; we want more MP5s.”
Can you blame them? Mp5 vs UMP is like comparing a custom 1911 that is also extremely reliable to a S&W SW40VE or whatever the fuck that glorified Sigma with the stainless slide is called that occupies significant space in police evidence rooms nationwide.
I wonder how it compares to some of the newer attempted replacements that add fancier operating mechanisms, like the SMG-45 or Stribog SP45.
Like Henry says, it's made by H&K, it's about the size of a MP5, it seems to fill the same usage environment. Yes of course people felt it was an attempt at improving on the MP5. And in ways it does! Last shot hold open, multiple calibers capable with cheaper and easier parts list, it's lighter. So I can see how people will compare it to the MP5. It would be real interesting to see how it feels when firing 9mm just to take the added power of .40 S&W out of the equation. 9mm is loosing a bit in the game of ballistics and personal protection, so a stouter round is interesting. Now if that should be .40 S&W, 10mm or .40 or .45 Super is another question. 10mm seems capable and the .40 super was about as powerful as the .44 Magnum but with a lighter bullet and higher velocity it should do well against body armor with the right bullets. Now these two guns should be compared with the same ammunition. I don't know how far up the ladder the MP5 can be adapted to fire, but 10mm seems like it might be possible.
I first became aware of the UMP in Rainbow Six Vegas. I thought the 2 rnd burst was so cool.
I still want one even though they have issues with the charging handle lock on the receiver. Ump45 best girl, btw. Also, bf3 nostalgia called. They said it needs an eotech, afg and suppressor.
What are your toughts on the Beretta PMX? I want to get a nice pcc for plinking at the range and where I live I can get the PMXs with 3 mags for around 1100€ compared to getting a much cooler but pricier SP5 for 2900€ and 100€ for each mags. (I could also get a mke mp5k clone for 1600€ but I heard their quality is hit or miss)
Famous last words..."Don't do what I did". Haha Great video and keep them coming. Cheers!
Having fired one: no, no it does not. Now, let’s watch the video.
For some reason I've always had a preference for the UMP over the MP5. I think the boxy look combined with an EOTech looks hot.
Most of my HK MP5 30 round mags drop free now and with proper use of the push button mag release, the reload process is nicely faster.
I have a Tommy built in 45 and it's the best 45acp firearm on the market. I like it better than my b&t apc45 because of the magazines
The ump 45 is a sick gun ...way underrated
the USC i shot (.45) had quite possibly the WORST trigger i have EVER experienced. People talk about "staple gun trigger" and now i understand what they mean.
Change the stock so it comes directly back from the receiver and then raise the sights like the AR and you will have less felt recoil. It will also be a different gun and better than HK made.
Something like the Stribog M9A3 would have been a better successor to the MP5.
I have been eyeing the compact version. I like the idea of an MP5K due to its size, and the M9A3 compact is within an inch in length and can be fitted with AR grips, triggers, and Evo3 mags with a different lower.
The idea of some A team in Iraq running around with UMP45s stacking bodies is fucking awesome... One of my favourite guns and instant nostalgia from the 00s
Caliber conversion seems to never get used so maybe it would’ve been better off designing the gun around one caliber but this was also around the time where people thought 9 mm was anemic and 40 was becoming widespread understandable that they give people choice during a period of flux
When I have photos of British SAS, all kitted out, storming an embassy with a UMP, then we’ll talk. Until then, Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
My sole issue with the USC is the price. If they were $1500 and came as a pistol like the SP-5, I'd love them so much, but for the price of buying a USC and converting it into a bare UMP I could get a CMMG Dissent/Banshee with an Aimpoint PRO and a gucci trigger.
More and more UMP content is needed!
My experience shooting the UMP is that you do need to fight the recoil. It's not unbearable, but you definitely need to put in a concerted effort. Compared to something like an MP5 or even a CMMG Banshee, it's considerably more brisk. You can feel the bolt hitting the back and when it slams forward. You can learn to run it fast, but it will take a lot of rounds and trigger time.
My experience is that there is no comparison between the two, totally different weapons. The UMP is simply a polymer pcc with a very heavy bolt using simple blowback. The one thing I hated with the ump is you feel the impulse as the bolt hits rear extreme travel, and again as it slams forward into battery. Very reliable but not nearly as refined as an mp5.
Have you shot the B&t, LWRC, Kriss Vector? If so how do they compare. The one thing I like about the AR is the caliber conversion. One trip to the range I'm firing 9mm, 5.56, 300 BO, or any other cals. It's like golfing.
16:35 I had that happen to me last week at the range with some work buddies. Guy went out to shoot after he and I were trouble shooting his Glock build and began firing when I didn't have my earpro on. I had to immediately plug my ear with my fingers. After he fired his string he turned and saw me plugging my ears and apologized.
Def got that UMPf :)
Nice purchase.
Some Police units in the Philippines use the UMP in 9mm , seen photos of them .
From a manufacturing perspective - the UMP is very well thought out.
please answer..for war in tropical places what weapon should I take AK 101 OR HK 416 because I have assignments there
Although hidden behind the MP 5, this submachine gun is also excellent enough. The shape is also very cool.
I like 45 ACP H&K UMP!
I had a usc, and enjoyed it.
The KAC/HK broom handle grip might not be the most functional or as elegant as a SBI vertical grip but it’s the ONLY one that belongs on the UMP
Interesting that a heavier subgun has a lighter bolt and a lighter subgun has a heavier bolt...
Interested to see a vid on a .45 UMP and a bullet trajectory analysis.
The UMP: when you want an H&K submachine gun but in larger calibers.
The MP5 was offered in .40 S&W and 10mm for a while, so not that much larger really.
@@Echo_Charliewell given 10mm dumpster on .45 thats sick. A 10mm mp5 would be devastating
The lack of HK building a ump for civilians led me to buy a vector. No regrets there either, but I still want an ump.
Always love the content, guys
Again, Henry lives inside my head as I thought to myself about a USC and/or a .45ACP PCC.
It's not often that I disagree with Henry's commentary but in this case, I respectfully disagree.
I don't think that it's valid to say that the MP5 is a sedan and that the UMP is a pickup.
Directly comparing the UMP9 and MP5 is relevant as the two products were designed and marketed to fill the same role. Both the MP5 and UMP were designed, manufactured , marketed, and deployed as submachine guns (Maschinenpistole and Universale Maschinenpistole, respectively).
While the ability to swap barrels and magazines is an interesting feature, it is also a feature that few end-users will seriously leverage. The real benefit to the end-user is cost reduction due to simplified manufacturing along with some weight savings.
I suspect that most end-users will buy a UMP9, UMP40, or UMP45 and stick with the cartridge that they bought it with.
The main advantage of the UMP is H&K's ability to use a polymer frame and have common tooling for the vast majority of the parts and the ability to provide them in three calibers with maximum parts commonality. This keeps costs down and maximizes product availability compared to creating new stamped steel tooling for two additional sizes of MP[#] for .40 S&W and .45 Auto.
H&K may have marketed the caliber swap as a feature but it's arguably just clever marketing with no real practicality; the real purpose was simplified manufacturing.
The maintenance differences between the direct blowback UMP and the roller-delayed blowback MP5 may be more significant to a unit armorer servicing a significantly large inventory for heavy-use end-users but I'm not sure that an individual owner would be constrained by MP5 maintenance schedules.
Therefore, comparing the UMP9 and the MP5 is fair.
Advantages:
UMP9 lighter
UMP9 cheaper
UMP9 bolt hold open
UMP9 bolt release
UMP9 safety
UMP9 ease of rail configuration
MP5 recoil controllability / accuracy in auto
MP5 rate of fire
MP5 iron sights
And unique to the USA because of laws:
*MP5 civilian NFA transferable as an auto, UMP forever restricted to post dealer sales
For me, the controllability is what sets the MP5 above all other SMGs
Imo, UMP is a more modern easy to maintain standard sedan that has poorer handling but makes up for it for its cheap manufacturing and low cost and requisite maintenance...
The MP5 is more of an older luxury sedan, it handles better, has the leather interior and generally extremely svelte... but you are going to have to pay for the more expensive parts and higher cost of maintenance.
Recoils like a scorpion with that big bolt sloshing back and forth. Lol
That's one happy Umpalumpa!
Can't wait until I can get one from Tommy Built Tactical.
I will never regret the money I spent getting a UMP45 conversion through Tom Bostic, I will also never except criticism of what is clearly the best PCC ever created.
"Everyone judges this based on a good gun instead of expecting it to be bad and being okay with that"
"He called me an H&K Fiend!" If you can afford it buy it. Flex on the poors Henry.
Interesting gun. Maybe compare your UMP to the LWRC SMG 45.
You like the UMP because of Sicario 2. I like the UMP because of the Matrix Reloaded. We are not the same
Give in to the voices, Henry. Especially when they’re telling you to get another SMG!!!
Hope you guy going over the mpx one day, would love to see your opinion on the mpx platform.
No eye pro while shooting steel… AND Josh sending hot brass 👻 🚗 🔑 directly at your face😵
(“Car” pronounced with a Boston accent)
45acp version looked good though & COD definitely helped its fame. The movies too.