Back in the 90's, I hosted a weekly watch party for B5. When this episode aired, there were six of us clustered around the TV. When Delenn came through that jump gate there were cheers. When she said, "... be somewhere else" nobody was sitting anymore. It is one of my absolute favorite memories. Words cannot convey just how much I love this episode.
@@ninjabearpress2574I love that, remember she started a war that nearly ended the humans...... If this ends in a gun fight it would be considered an act of war. Potentially ending the human race and losing the shadow war.........
This episode won the 1997 HUGO award for Best Dramatic Presentation . It beat out - Star Trek First Contact , DS9 Trials and Tribble-ations ,Independence Day ,and Mars Attacks .
@@robertdendooven7258 Because that year had 7 episodes nominated - if you let it out that one is the winner, then it dilutes the expectations for the rest Also, J&B have repeatedly asked to not have anything about awards, guest stars, etc .
@@MrDdaland I guess. But only one was approved by JMS to be nominated, this one. I understand not mentioning a future episode as being an award winning one or that a guest star might reappear, but once that episode has been reviewed how is a spoiler? I also understand not making connections with previous episodes so that they can catch stuff on a re-watch. I will not do anything you have asked for fans not to do, but still not really agree with it. Have a great day!
I wonder if B5 had more fans if it would be in the mix for greatest episodes of TV? Those sort of things often lean on either an audience or critic based critical mass (like a truly fantastic episode of Friday Night Lights, The Son which sometimes get mentioned because the critics loved that show). B5 didn't have either of those
One of Delenn's crowning moments of awesome. I always imagine the Clark-loyal captains suddenly go "Err, I left the oven on!" "Oops, I nearly forgot my dental appointment, back to Earth!" "Damn, my dog is sick... gotta go!"
Bab 5. From a time where scriptwriters understood you dont have to diminish the men surrounding a female character to make her look strong. Delenn owned this episode with her monologues. I still get goosebumps everytime i watch this episode.
Oh there were plenty of scriptwriters who didn’t know how to do that back in the day too! But B5 overall did an outstanding job of building strong yet flawed protagonists regardless of their gender. Delenn and Ivanova in particular are just amazing! I’m always grateful I had the opportunity to meet both Mira Furlan and Claudia Christian and let them know how much their work has been appreciated!
It's worth noting how ground-breaking the special effects were here. B5 was one of the first shows to go all in on using CGI to create their ships and battle sequences and in this episode, they really went all out.
Not just great battle effects, not just incredible performances by the stars, but four (4) significant guest actors (Bruce McGill, Phil Morris, Kim Miyoshi, Rance Howard). The Hugo Award competition was like the 1939 Oscars.
@@ianstopher9111 I meant the films of 1939 decorated at the 1940 Academy Awards (Gone with the Wind, Mr. Smith goes to Washington, Wizard of Oz, and 7 other top films); Angels with Dirty Faces was the year before that.
Some interesting things to note about the Starfury launch sequences: The areas of the station that the ships launch from are called the Cobra Bays, because they look like cobras. Also, the Starfuries launch using the centrifugal force from the station's rotation. So when those arms holding the Furies in place rotates "downward", the rotation of the station just slings them out of the bays.
The Omega destroyers were originally supposed to have similar launch bays in their rotating habitat sections, but that never made it to the SFX folks, who instead just have them launch out of the forward hatch.
The scene when ISN is attacked by Clark's forces, and they send a last message to the ether is so intense. We had the same in WWII, when Poland or Greece were attacked and conquered shortly after.
it is so intense, because the actors were not expecting to be pelted with actual debris... the prop guy misunderstood.. instead of throwing "near" them, he threw *at* them.. The shock is real !! LOL
@@gerikhan1 anytime you have a power that is in charge, you'll find people willing to do whatever it takes to stay in power. change laws, make new ones, you'd be surprised by what has happened in just the u.s.'s past let alone the world.
It was part way through this review that I remembered: "OMG this is THAT episode!! One of the single most clipped ever for Delenn being a bad @ss!" Good stuff, glad you liked it. 😂
Woo hoo! You got to this episode! The speech by Delenn to the Grey Council is absolutely a highlight as well, and it’s almost a single, long, take. After Mira Furlan had read the script, she asked JMS how long he had been in Yugoslavia. Her and her husband had fled from there during the war because they were getting death threats. JMS has said the parallels weren’t exactly intentional, but that Mira’s experiences certainly helped her performance. But also, BadAss Delenn. That scene gives me goosebumps just *thinking* about it. Mira’s performance in this episode is off the charts excellent! There’s a lot of extras throughout the run that are actually production staff of various sorts. Sometimes the crowds have a bunch of them. Occasionally you get more higher up folks from the production staff being more of the non-speaking actors who the main cast act against. I thought I remembered that the guy from the beginning was one of the producers, but I can’t remember where I heard that. There were more VFX shots in this episode then they had done for any of the previous episodes, by far. One of the producers *drove* the final cut of the episode to the building where they transmitted the show like 2 hours before it was scheduled to air.
The long awaited episode. We've been mostly trying to keep quiet, but it was very hard. This is in the top 3 episodes of B5. One of the coolest battle sequences. And the most badass Delenn scene. But tbf, every single scene Mira Furlan got in this episode was great. Mira asked JMS when she got the script if this was written specifically for her (she and her husband escaped the Yugoslavian war). But also if you noticed, Garibaldi got injured and then started walking around with a cane. Jerry Doyle actually got injured when filming this scene. He was rushed to the hospital eight away not even changing clothes, in that "heavy armor" (he was still married to Andrea Thompson). When she made it to the hospital, she asked where she could find him. They asked how he looked like, and well, when she described him in the scifi armor, they weren't very surprised. I guess they at the hospital were getting weird dudes in scifi clothing all the time.
I've heard a story about Nana Visitor got injured on set and went to the hospital in full makeup and costume... startled the heck out of the doctor with the Bjoran makeup
This is part three of a trilogy. This and the last two could not be taken separately. Your reaction to Delenn confronting the Earth cruisers was spot on what I was hoping it would be.
delenns saving the day will always give me goose bumps her performance is stellar i love how she can be so gentile and soft spoken most of the time then boom as dangerous as Susan Ivanova
With all the great lines and quotes from this episode one of my favourites often gots overlooked. "I told you delenn, they will not speak to you" "Then they will listen to me." I dont know why but i just loved delenns response to that.
When this first aired, Europe got to see it first and people would post online their reviews and we would get some spoilers that way sometime. The only message I saw about this episode before watching it was "Dont forget to breath."
The battle here is so incredibly intense. The build up is so incredibly fierce. And of course we've got halfway through the series and it's the perfect thing to happen at the midpoint. That moment when they do the Hitchcock zoom in on Sheridan-- this is the moment! Incredible TV.
One little extra info on this whole season is the fact that ALL 23 EPISODES were written by JMS. It is the first time in TV history for that to happen. He (JMS) felt that there were too many story threads for any other writer to keep track of and none of the thread could be dropped of forgotten about. The whole season is just one hell of great story telling.
Some fun trivia: The debris that falls on their desk around 8:45 was supposedly not supposed to land that close to the actors. The anchorwoman's reaction was genuine.
The other one is g'kar's speech imho. All too relevant these day... "No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once, we will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free" - G'kar, Babylon 5
Such an amazing episode with so many great scenes: the attack on ISN, Sheridan's speech, the destruction of the Churchil, the arrival and speech of Delen.
Garibaldi broke his leg while filing the boarding fight scene but insisted on finishing the scene so there’s a moment at the end of the scene where it’s his real injury he’s suffering from.
Oh my days…what an incredible episode!!! So many great moments. This episode absolutely floored me when it came out. And ending the episode on the “traitors can’t hide” poster was perfection.
Something worth mentioning: When Delenn broke the council, five members followed her, four stayed behind. When Neroon replaced Delenn on the council, the warrior caste had four members. I think you can guess who stayed.
8:48 That debris landed a little bit closer then they were expecting. The console exploding into fire actually was a bit bigger then expected. The extra with the fire extinguisher actually got handed the fire extinguisher from the actual safety supply.
"Delen is such a bad ass" after saying "step aside"..... all i could think was wait for "be somewhere else" lol. Brent you reacted the exact same way i did when it originally aired.
Jeffrey Willerth(guy in the Kosh suit, background actor, and associate producer) always referred to Mira as the Meryl Streep of Croatia (Yugoslavia). She was a very popular actress in stage and film until the the start of the breakup of Yugoslavia.
Damn, Delenn is such a complete badass! 9:19 This scene tends to be forgotten in light of 14:30, but she plays barely restrained anger so freaking well, when she takes that underling to school. RIP, Mira Furlan.
I just finished watching the episode for the second time ever. And I was so much more excited the second time around knowing what was coming. I immediately came here to watch this and I was still hooting and smiling and just rejoicing at your reaction of it the first time. Man, thank you so much for this and the podcast. Just such a delight!
This one is on practically ALL Babylon 5 fan's "Top # Episodes" list! Enjoy your reactions. When you are Right, you are very, very right. When you are wrong, you are not even in the same Galaxy! ("I bet she is going to betray them." 3 scenes late she does a kamakazi run to save Babylon 5.) lol
The other being Delenn & Shakiri in the Starfire Wheel, and Neroon's sacrifice. "Moments of Transition." Those are probably about the Top 2 Episodes IMO. Or, at least, the top 2 scenes in the entire series.
A few things from this episode. General Hauge was killed offscreen since his agent double booked him for DS9. There is a CGI error when the Alexander is hit during the battle, but it showed a different name on the hull. This was because as JMS said this episode was uploaded only a few hours before it was uplinked to tv stations for that nights showing. The CGI took a bit to do. Plus in the script Garibaldi injured his leg in the fight. However it was during the shooting of the fight the actor injured his arm. He stayed and finished two scenes before he went to the hospital. Thus why he is shown with a cane when they were shipping nightwatch out.
For me, the scene with the greatest impact was the after-battle bit in Brown Sector, with all the dead and wounded. No flashy special effects, just the real result of war: the dead, the dying, the maimed and the dismayed.
@@Nikioko IKR but it still amuses me 20+ years later that they cast the "Wrong McGill" because the show runners couldn't remember Everett's first name lol
They never auditioned the part of Ryan. It was a last minute "oh shit" replacement for Robert Foxworth. JMS had met Everett McGill, and he was the first guy he had in mind. Problem was, he couldn't remember his first name , so he just told the casting director "Get McGill". Casting director thought Bruce- and JMS didn't catch the mistake until Bruce stopped by for wardrobe - and he stopped by JMS's office to ask exactly what he wanted
In college we had a B5 fan club called The Five Pounds of Meal Club. They stopped showing Bab5 in our college town of Alma, MI, but one of our friends was in grad school down at MSU where the show was still broadcast, so he'd tape it and bring the precious cargo up to us to watch together. There was a restaurant in Lansing that sold the infamous 3 pound burrito... we'd pick one up for each person and a two liter of pop, the goal was to consume all the food and drink before the end of the episode, then we'd rewatch it immediately. Ahhhh... good times. :)
One of my favorite scenes in this was the defense of Brown Sector. The gropo breaching pod cuts through the hull of B5, Garibaldi orders a defensive position, and a squad of battle-frenzied Narns charge right past, making a spoiling attack (while taking horrific casualties) that throws the breachers' plans into chaos, and forces a vicious hand-to-hand fight at the choke point, where Garibaldi's forces ultimately prevail.
There were several heroic women in my pop culture life before Delenn: Sarah Connor, Kara Zor-El, Lisa Hayes... But oh, Severed Dreams, how it changed me... Delenn became something entirely new here. Suddenly she was far more badass, more real, more... Almost frightening... than any of the others. ... Watching this with a couple friends, first when she breaks the council, and then THAT moment... There was cheering. One of my friends wept. If I hadn't already been completely in the tank for this show's heroines before then, that cemented it. Still one of the top five best tv moments of all time.
@@Nikioko lol no I didn't forget Ripley. I didn't want to go too Cameron-centric (at that point I'd never actually seen the original) or put more than one from any medium. The post was already getting long, so one movie, comic, and anime which were all front and center for me at the time.
When B5 was on, there was a code of silence that my friends adhered to religiously. During ad breaks, it would not be uncommon for the phone to ring. When answered there'd be a voice on the other end of the phone going, did you see that!?!?!? DID YOU SEE THAT!?!?!?? No other show since has come close. Pure awesome.
"General Haig...is doing Deep Space 9, it seems he was double booked by his agent and there was nothing to be done, so you'll have to make do with me sir"
This is one of the best things in visual media of any kind. Love the reaction and the bleep was totally justified. If you didn't get excited by that moment you don't have a soul.
The effects guys said that they beat the record for the number of spaceships on screen at one time. The previous record holder was Return of the Jedi. (Pretty sure DS9 took the trophy a year or so later.)
One thing to remember from the initial broadcast schedule of this episode on PTEN is that this episode aired five weeks AFTER the airing of Point Of No Return. Can you imagine waiting that long in the late winter of 1996?
Some fun facts for this episode: (1) Jerry Doyle (Michael Garibaldi) actually broken his arm during filming, and continued acting. I cannot rewatch that scene without wincing when I see his arm bend the wrong way as he drops his helmet. (2) I remember some behind the scenes on this show discussing how it almost never aired... because of all the CGI. They literally pioneered using only CGI for visual effects in a TV show, but the computers back then were slow and they almost didn't meet the deadline to get the show ready for broadcast.
The way this episode builds and builds and builds to the battle is to demonstrate that this isn't something that can be wrapped up by the end of the episode and everything will go back to normal two minutes before the credits, that nothing is ever going to be the same again. It happens a little bit more in shows now, but back then television was very clean and the rules were pretty set in stone, you could threaten a shake up of the status quo, but everything had to go back to normal by the end of the episode. This episode was a complete overturn of the apple cart and that just didn't happen in American television back then.
Hollywood, this is how you make a strong female character. Delenn had it all, compassion, empathy, strength, and such badassness that speech still gives me chill... Why Not... Daaaamn.
I have commented on this episode before.... when Delenn said "Be somewhere else" The reason they use jumpgates is because opening jumppoints takes tremendous amounts of power and is avoided by the younger races unless they MUST do it, those human ships paid the fuel price to not even turn back toward the gate.
Delen's lines when she arrives in the battle are some of my favorite from the series. I have to give props though to the commander of the Earth Alliance squadron for at least trying to act tough while staring down the barrels of 4 Minbari ship. Ships that only 12 years earlier often would single handedly take out 4 Earth ships without breaking a sweat.
Bruce McGill who plays Major Ed Ryan you may know him from National Lampoon's Animal House as Daniel Simpson 'D-Day' Day and in the TV series MacGyver as Jack Dalton.
He was also not the actor JMS wanted for the part. He wanted a different actor named Bruce but when he requested him he got the name mixed up and so they got him instead and it wasn't discovered until they were shooting for the episode and none of the uniforms fit him so wardrobe had to saw two uniform jackets together to fit him which is why it doesn't fit him very well. But JMS was glad of the mistake because him being older and out of shape along with his great acting and line delivery really helps sell the character and the emotions. He felt it added more authenticity.
I knew him from him playing Jack Dalton (and later from this). Just like I knew Richard Dean Anderson as MacGyver and later as Captain (and later General) Jack (ironic) O'Neill (with two L's as he holds up three fingers every time he says that).
He was also in the final episode of Quantum Leap! He’s just a magnificent actor. Even if it was a mistake of getting him instead of the other actor they wanted, McGill just knocks it out of the park
For many of us OG fans Severed Dreams is one of our favs. Delenn's arrival is a thing of legend and since y'all began I could not wait till you saw it! At a time when there were so many "Damsel in distress" storylines, Delenn is exactly what you said....a Badass.
In the beginning when Major Ryan says, "I'll try to find something to say to both of their wives, God knows what," that was JMS's hint to us that Hague was dead. After all these years, only now did I catch it. Still learning I guess. The term you might be looking for about the next few episodes is 'taking stock'.
There are so many moments in this show where you go....Yes!!! or No!!! This is one of the best episodes of the entire series, but unfortunately, or fortunately, there are too many yes!!! and no!!! moments left to go in this series. Just thinking of some of them make want to scream in adulation and/or want to make you cry. If you want to know the difference between ANY Stark Trek series and Babylon 5...there are many Star Trek series episodes that make you smile or scream out, yes...but it was only a couple of the movies that ever made you want to cry. Babylon 5...has way too many of both, in just their series. Thank you, JMS...and thank you Jeff and Brent for helping me re-live some of those moments!
Well it was a long time coming, but you finally got your wish. Delenn was awesome in this one, who in their right minds would get in her way. Did you also notice that we had the new Mk 3 starfurys mixed in with the fighters, they are the longer more pointy streamlined ones designed for atmosphere, that bombed the domes on Mars.
Glad you finally got through this trilogy of episodes. Difficult not being able to say anything about your predictions since this was pretty much a three part episode...
As commented between Major Ryan and his officer, Clarkstown's forward interceptors (defensive fire) are down so the only thing keeping the Clarkstown from being destroyed is the reluctance of the captain of the Alexander to open fire.
The captain of the Alexander is played by Bruce McGill (best known for his role in Animal House) as a replacement for the suddenly-unavailable actor who played General Hague. But this casting was by accident. JMS had another actor in mind with the same surname and confused his name with Bruce, and authorized the casting. Had he not made this error, this captain would have been played by EVERETT McGill, who played Stillgar in the original Dune movie from 1984.
Great episode. Loved Ivonova's optimistic "I can handle it" while the light in the cockpit says she's rolling ass over teakettle. Typical fighter pilot, but Chuck Yeager would be proud.
"If you value your lives, be somewhere else." is my third most favorite speech on the show. You have the two I like better still coming. And lots of great ones, that just did not make my top three.
I don't think I ever heard a more badass speech than Delenn's. Ever. (But Ivanova gives a close second in S4. We'll discuss it when the time comes >:-D) BTW, this might be the best Space Opera battle in TV history. The Expanse had a few good ones. Battlestar Galactica also had excellent ones. But I think this one takes the crown.
"Bad Brent" 🤣🤣🤣 I still use "poor and inadequate" as an excuse in situations where I don't otherwise have the words. It describes my feelings about this episode, in fact.
You may notice they misnamed some of the ships during the battle, if I remember correctly jms blamed the cgi team "foundation imaging" and led to the show creating its own cgi team called "netter digital".
Robert Foxworth, who played general Hague, was originally going to be in this episode. However, he ended up accepting a more lucrative guest role on DS9, and did that instead. So JMS killed his character off, and replaced his character with Bruce McGill as major Ryan. Also, Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) broke his arm filming the battle scenes, but stuck it out. Watch how his arm bends as he drops his helmet at the end. The last scene of the episode was filmed earlier, but because he kept his hand in his pocket the whole scene it doesn’t break continuity too badly.
All the good predictions you have been having the last few episodes, and even last season -- all come to fruition here. It's great that a series gives the hints and still excites in their fulfillment
JMS, as a writer, says you gotta play fair and leave the hints. Kudos to Brett and Jeff for picking up all the bread crumbs. They finally get a big bite of sandwich here!
@@t3amtomahawk I think the phrase he used in his book on writing is that you want to give the audience a 'predictable surprise'. It should both be expectable when you rewatch the show, but be enjoyable as a surprise on the first watch
Back in the 90's, I hosted a weekly watch party for B5. When this episode aired, there were six of us clustered around the TV. When Delenn came through that jump gate there were cheers. When she said, "... be somewhere else" nobody was sitting anymore. It is one of my absolute favorite memories. Words cannot convey just how much I love this episode.
It's the "why not?" that really elevates it to Doc Holliday's "I'm sorry, I forgot you were there" levels of badassery.
experiencing somethign like that with friends just makes it all the better
The tremor in Delenn's voice when she warns them gets lost when Clark's troops get froggy. RIP Mira Furlan, you were one hell of an actress.
one of the greatest moments in all of scifi
@@ninjabearpress2574I love that, remember she started a war that nearly ended the humans...... If this ends in a gun fight it would be considered an act of war. Potentially ending the human race and losing the shadow war.........
This episode won the 1997 HUGO award for Best Dramatic Presentation . It beat out - Star Trek First Contact , DS9 Trials and Tribble-ations ,Independence Day ,and Mars Attacks .
No comments about awards, please, Nominations are ok though- B5 had 7 nominated
@@MrDdaland Why? No spoilers now that the episode has been seen by them.
@@robertdendooven7258 Because that year had 7 episodes nominated - if you let it out that one is the winner, then it dilutes the expectations for the rest
Also, J&B have repeatedly asked to not have anything about awards, guest stars, etc .
@@MrDdaland I guess. But only one was approved by JMS to be nominated, this one.
I understand not mentioning a future episode as being an award winning one or that a guest star might reappear, but once that episode has been reviewed how is a spoiler? I also understand not making connections with previous episodes so that they can catch stuff on a re-watch. I will not do anything you have asked for fans not to do, but still not really agree with it. Have a great day!
@@MrDdaland I think you're overthinking it.
I love that the second time Sheridan tells anyone who wants to go to go, someone actually goes. You NEVER see that.
Delenn's statement to the Earthforce ships is one I play over and over and over again. I love it so much!!
that is a fan favorite for sure
Me too. Also, I watched this live when it aired on TV (smile...smile).
I've been a B5 fan for 25 years. Love seeing people enjoy it for the first time.
Right on!
One of the best episodes of the series.
For many people, the single best episode of the whole show. But one of the Top 5 for sure.
It’s one of my top 5 episodes of Babylon 5 👍
I wonder if B5 had more fans if it would be in the mix for greatest episodes of TV? Those sort of things often lean on either an audience or critic based critical mass (like a truly fantastic episode of Friday Night Lights, The Son which sometimes get mentioned because the critics loved that show). B5 didn't have either of those
@@TheDanEdwards not hardly. Just because it’s one of the best does not mean that it is the best, my favorite episodes are still to come.
I daresay, uphill. At least, for a time being
One of Delenn's crowning moments of awesome. I always imagine the Clark-loyal captains suddenly go "Err, I left the oven on!" "Oops, I nearly forgot my dental appointment, back to Earth!" "Damn, my dog is sick... gotta go!"
I have always imagined the ships whistling innocently wile turning back. „Just passing by, will not bother you any more”.
@@Spriggana you do have to wonder what that conversation was like on the bridge of those ships
@@brentallenlive Something along the lines of "Dude, remember what happened the last time a Earthforce ship fired on a Minbari warship?"
I imagine them saying, “Mama didn’t raise no fool.”
One of the best episodes, with my all-time favorite scene. Delenn is what a strong female character should be like.
Bab 5. From a time where scriptwriters understood you dont have to diminish the men surrounding a female character to make her look strong. Delenn owned this episode with her monologues. I still get goosebumps everytime i watch this episode.
Oh there were plenty of scriptwriters who didn’t know how to do that back in the day too! But B5 overall did an outstanding job of building strong yet flawed protagonists regardless of their gender. Delenn and Ivanova in particular are just amazing! I’m always grateful I had the opportunity to meet both Mira Furlan and Claudia Christian and let them know how much their work has been appreciated!
This moment has been prepared for the entire last 2 1/2 seasons. This is a milestone in the overall story and the true Point of no Return.
I don't know about anyone else, but all my B5 dreams came true in this episode
It's worth noting how ground-breaking the special effects were here. B5 was one of the first shows to go all in on using CGI to create their ships and battle sequences and in this episode, they really went all out.
An episode that never fails to give me chills.
Not just great battle effects, not just incredible performances by the stars, but four (4) significant guest actors (Bruce McGill, Phil Morris, Kim Miyoshi, Rance Howard). The Hugo Award competition was like the 1939 Oscars.
Yep, where Angels With Dirty Faces went home empty-handed.
@@ianstopher9111 I meant the films of 1939 decorated at the 1940 Academy Awards (Gone with the Wind, Mr. Smith goes to Washington, Wizard of Oz, and 7 other top films); Angels with Dirty Faces was the year before that.
Some interesting things to note about the Starfury launch sequences: The areas of the station that the ships launch from are called the Cobra Bays, because they look like cobras. Also, the Starfuries launch using the centrifugal force from the station's rotation. So when those arms holding the Furies in place rotates "downward", the rotation of the station just slings them out of the bays.
The Omega destroyers were originally supposed to have similar launch bays in their rotating habitat sections, but that never made it to the SFX folks, who instead just have them launch out of the forward hatch.
The scene when ISN is attacked by Clark's forces, and they send a last message to the ether is so intense. We had the same in WWII, when Poland or Greece were attacked and conquered shortly after.
it is so intense, because the actors were not expecting to be pelted with actual debris... the prop guy misunderstood.. instead of throwing "near" them, he threw *at* them.. The shock is real !! LOL
a lot of b5 is based indirectly on WW II and what the nazi's did before hitler took power.
@@ZakhadWOW LOL But yeah, the actors for that scene really knocked it out of the park.
It still gives me chills. There are still plenty of places in our world where it could happen any time
@@gerikhan1 anytime you have a power that is in charge, you'll find people willing to do whatever it takes to stay in power. change laws, make new ones, you'd be surprised by what has happened in just the u.s.'s past let alone the world.
It was part way through this review that I remembered: "OMG this is THAT episode!! One of the single most clipped ever for Delenn being a bad @ss!" Good stuff, glad you liked it. 😂
Woo hoo! You got to this episode!
The speech by Delenn to the Grey Council is absolutely a highlight as well, and it’s almost a single, long, take.
After Mira Furlan had read the script, she asked JMS how long he had been in Yugoslavia. Her and her husband had fled from there during the war because they were getting death threats. JMS has said the parallels weren’t exactly intentional, but that Mira’s experiences certainly helped her performance.
But also, BadAss Delenn. That scene gives me goosebumps just *thinking* about it. Mira’s performance in this episode is off the charts excellent!
There’s a lot of extras throughout the run that are actually production staff of various sorts. Sometimes the crowds have a bunch of them. Occasionally you get more higher up folks from the production staff being more of the non-speaking actors who the main cast act against. I thought I remembered that the guy from the beginning was one of the producers, but I can’t remember where I heard that.
There were more VFX shots in this episode then they had done for any of the previous episodes, by far. One of the producers *drove* the final cut of the episode to the building where they transmitted the show like 2 hours before it was scheduled to air.
She would have also nailed it in a single take, but unfortunately she had trouble breaking the staff so she had to do it all again.
Ahh... Many good lines ahead.
I appreciate Delenn didn't say 'go away' but rather, 'you need to already be anywhere else '
The long awaited episode. We've been mostly trying to keep quiet, but it was very hard. This is in the top 3 episodes of B5. One of the coolest battle sequences. And the most badass Delenn scene. But tbf, every single scene Mira Furlan got in this episode was great. Mira asked JMS when she got the script if this was written specifically for her (she and her husband escaped the Yugoslavian war).
But also if you noticed, Garibaldi got injured and then started walking around with a cane. Jerry Doyle actually got injured when filming this scene. He was rushed to the hospital eight away not even changing clothes, in that "heavy armor" (he was still married to Andrea Thompson). When she made it to the hospital, she asked where she could find him. They asked how he looked like, and well, when she described him in the scifi armor, they weren't very surprised. I guess they at the hospital were getting weird dudes in scifi clothing all the time.
I've heard a story about Nana Visitor got injured on set and went to the hospital in full makeup and costume... startled the heck out of the doctor with the Bjoran makeup
This episode still gets me 27 years later!
This is part three of a trilogy. This and the last two could not be taken separately. Your reaction to Delenn confronting the Earth cruisers was spot on what I was hoping it would be.
delenns saving the day will always give me goose bumps her performance is stellar i love how she can be so gentile and soft spoken most of the time then boom as dangerous as Susan Ivanova
Delenn's speech to the Earth Alliance is the best ever in the series.
Delenn's "Be somewhere else" moment may be the single most bad-assed thing in all of sci-fi.
With all the great lines and quotes from this episode one of my favourites often gots overlooked.
"I told you delenn, they will not speak to you"
"Then they will listen to me."
I dont know why but i just loved delenns response to that.
When this first aired, Europe got to see it first and people would post online their reviews and we would get some spoilers that way sometime. The only message I saw about this episode before watching it was "Dont forget to breath."
The battle here is so incredibly intense. The build up is so incredibly fierce. And of course we've got halfway through the series and it's the perfect thing to happen at the midpoint. That moment when they do the Hitchcock zoom in on Sheridan-- this is the moment! Incredible TV.
One little extra info on this whole season is the fact that ALL 23 EPISODES were written by JMS. It is the first time in TV history for that to happen. He (JMS) felt that there were too many story threads for any other writer to keep track of and none of the thread could be dropped of forgotten about. The whole season is just one hell of great story telling.
You gotta love the fact that both the actor who played Flounder and the actor who played D-Day (from Animal House) both end up playing on B5.
Some fun trivia: The debris that falls on their desk around 8:45 was supposedly not supposed to land that close to the actors. The anchorwoman's reaction was genuine.
One of the major episodes. Iconic moments abound and a fundamental turning point in the status Quo.
Delenn's speech when she jumps in is one of if not THE best moment of this whole series!
The other one is g'kar's speech imho. All too relevant these day...
"No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once, we will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free"
- G'kar, Babylon 5
Such an amazing episode with so many great scenes: the attack on ISN, Sheridan's speech, the destruction of the Churchil, the arrival and speech of Delen.
Garibaldi broke his leg while filing the boarding fight scene but insisted on finishing the scene so there’s a moment at the end of the scene where it’s his real injury he’s suffering from.
Oh my days…what an incredible episode!!! So many great moments. This episode absolutely floored me when it came out. And ending the episode on the “traitors can’t hide” poster was perfection.
There it is!! Best damn line in the show:)
Something worth mentioning: When Delenn broke the council, five members followed her, four stayed behind.
When Neroon replaced Delenn on the council, the warrior caste had four members. I think you can guess who stayed.
8:48 That debris landed a little bit closer then they were expecting.
The console exploding into fire actually was a bit bigger then expected. The extra with the fire extinguisher actually got handed the fire extinguisher from the actual safety supply.
"Delen is such a bad ass" after saying "step aside"..... all i could think was wait for "be somewhere else" lol. Brent you reacted the exact same way i did when it originally aired.
This episode is the moment you fall in love with Delenn if you weren't already.
RIP Mira - gone way, way too soon.
Jeffrey Willerth(guy in the Kosh suit, background actor, and associate producer) always referred to Mira as the Meryl Streep of Croatia (Yugoslavia). She was a very popular actress in stage and film until the the start of the breakup of Yugoslavia.
Stop at "Jump Points forming right on top of us" with Hoshi dying in your mind.
The Cavalry HAS ARRIVED. Who's cavalry though?
Damn, Delenn is such a complete badass!
9:19 This scene tends to be forgotten in light of 14:30, but she plays barely restrained anger so freaking well, when she takes that underling to school.
RIP, Mira Furlan.
This is my favorite episode ever from B5
I just finished watching the episode for the second time ever. And I was so much more excited the second time around knowing what was coming. I immediately came here to watch this and I was still hooting and smiling and just rejoicing at your reaction of it the first time. Man, thank you so much for this and the podcast. Just such a delight!
This one is on practically ALL Babylon 5 fan's "Top # Episodes" list!
Enjoy your reactions. When you are Right, you are very, very right.
When you are wrong, you are not even in the same Galaxy!
("I bet she is going to betray them." 3 scenes late she does a kamakazi run to save Babylon 5.) lol
The other being Delenn & Shakiri in the Starfire Wheel, and Neroon's sacrifice. "Moments of Transition."
Those are probably about the Top 2 Episodes IMO. Or, at least, the top 2 scenes in the entire series.
14:15 Loved how you apologized for cursing, but if any moment deserved one, that did.
A few things from this episode. General Hauge was killed offscreen since his agent double booked him for DS9. There is a CGI error when the Alexander is hit during the battle, but it showed a different name on the hull. This was because as JMS said this episode was uploaded only a few hours before it was uplinked to tv stations for that nights showing. The CGI took a bit to do. Plus in the script Garibaldi injured his leg in the fight. However it was during the shooting of the fight the actor injured his arm. He stayed and finished two scenes before he went to the hospital. Thus why he is shown with a cane when they were shipping nightwatch out.
For me, the scene with the greatest impact was the after-battle bit in Brown Sector, with all the dead and wounded. No flashy special effects, just the real result of war: the dead, the dying, the maimed and the dismayed.
Including Jerry Doyle, with an actual broken arms, being helped by Zach. That’s dedication.
What is funny is the fact that they auditioned the "Wrong McGill" and hired him anyway.
Wrong Bruce McGill was awesome as Major Ryan. Totally credible performance.
@@Nikioko IKR but it still amuses me 20+ years later that they cast the "Wrong McGill" because the show runners couldn't remember Everett's first name lol
They never auditioned the part of Ryan. It was a last minute "oh shit" replacement for Robert Foxworth. JMS had met Everett McGill, and he was the first guy he had in mind. Problem was, he couldn't remember his first name , so he just told the casting director "Get McGill". Casting director thought Bruce- and JMS didn't catch the mistake until Bruce stopped by for wardrobe - and he stopped by JMS's office to ask exactly what he wanted
@@MrDdaland And it lead to one of the best B5 bloopers of all time. "I'm sorry, General Foxworth is doing Deep Space Nine....."
In college we had a B5 fan club called The Five Pounds of Meal Club. They stopped showing Bab5 in our college town of Alma, MI, but one of our friends was in grad school down at MSU where the show was still broadcast, so he'd tape it and bring the precious cargo up to us to watch together. There was a restaurant in Lansing that sold the infamous 3 pound burrito... we'd pick one up for each person and a two liter of pop, the goal was to consume all the food and drink before the end of the episode, then we'd rewatch it immediately. Ahhhh... good times. :)
One of my favorite scenes in this was the defense of Brown Sector. The gropo breaching pod cuts through the hull of B5, Garibaldi orders a defensive position, and a squad of battle-frenzied Narns charge right past, making a spoiling attack (while taking horrific casualties) that throws the breachers' plans into chaos, and forces a vicious hand-to-hand fight at the choke point, where Garibaldi's forces ultimately prevail.
There were several heroic women in my pop culture life before Delenn: Sarah Connor, Kara Zor-El, Lisa Hayes...
But oh, Severed Dreams, how it changed me...
Delenn became something entirely new here. Suddenly she was far more badass, more real, more... Almost frightening... than any of the others.
...
Watching this with a couple friends, first when she breaks the council, and then THAT moment... There was cheering. One of my friends wept.
If I hadn't already been completely in the tank for this show's heroines before then, that cemented it.
Still one of the top five best tv moments of all time.
You forgot Ellen Ripley.
@@Nikioko lol no I didn't forget Ripley. I didn't want to go too Cameron-centric (at that point I'd never actually seen the original) or put more than one from any medium. The post was already getting long, so one movie, comic, and anime which were all front and center for me at the time.
When B5 was on, there was a code of silence that my friends adhered to religiously. During ad breaks, it would not be uncommon for the phone to ring. When answered there'd be a voice on the other end of the phone going, did you see that!?!?!? DID YOU SEE THAT!?!?!?? No other show since has come close. Pure awesome.
"General Haig...is doing Deep Space 9, it seems he was double booked by his agent and there was nothing to be done, so you'll have to make do with me sir"
An amazing episode - loved it SO much back in the day- i couldnt BELIVE they really broke away from earth and fought off other earth ships :)
This episode had peoples jaws on the floor when it first came out.
13:30 I love how speechless the whole battle must have made you, as there is no reaction until Ivanovo ejects…😅
Awesome reactions to an awesome episode! 😀
Thanks! 😄
This is one of the best things in visual media of any kind. Love the reaction and the bleep was totally justified. If you didn't get excited by that moment you don't have a soul.
The effects guys said that they beat the record for the number of spaceships on screen at one time. The previous record holder was Return of the Jedi. (Pretty sure DS9 took the trophy a year or so later.)
One thing to remember from the initial broadcast schedule of this episode on PTEN is that this episode aired five weeks AFTER the airing of Point Of No Return. Can you imagine waiting that long in the late winter of 1996?
Yes, they skipped the whole March 1996.
Some fun facts for this episode: (1) Jerry Doyle (Michael Garibaldi) actually broken his arm during filming, and continued acting. I cannot rewatch that scene without wincing when I see his arm bend the wrong way as he drops his helmet. (2) I remember some behind the scenes on this show discussing how it almost never aired... because of all the CGI. They literally pioneered using only CGI for visual effects in a TV show, but the computers back then were slow and they almost didn't meet the deadline to get the show ready for broadcast.
The way this episode builds and builds and builds to the battle is to demonstrate that this isn't something that can be wrapped up by the end of the episode and everything will go back to normal two minutes before the credits, that nothing is ever going to be the same again. It happens a little bit more in shows now, but back then television was very clean and the rules were pretty set in stone, you could threaten a shake up of the status quo, but everything had to go back to normal by the end of the episode. This episode was a complete overturn of the apple cart and that just didn't happen in American television back then.
Hollywood, this is how you make a strong female character. Delenn had it all, compassion, empathy, strength, and such badassness that speech still gives me chill... Why Not... Daaaamn.
Don't forget Ivanava for a strong female character!
Seeing how you reacted to the previous episodes, I knew you'd love this one!
Shit man! I love geeking out over B5. Love watching someone else discovering it is awesome. So glad I ran into this channel! Thanks.
I have commented on this episode before.... when Delenn said "Be somewhere else" The reason they use jumpgates is because opening jumppoints takes tremendous amounts of power and is avoided by the younger races unless they MUST do it, those human ships paid the fuel price to not even turn back toward the gate.
Delen's lines when she arrives in the battle are some of my favorite from the series. I have to give props though to the commander of the Earth Alliance squadron for at least trying to act tough while staring down the barrels of 4 Minbari ship. Ships that only 12 years earlier often would single handedly take out 4 Earth ships without breaking a sweat.
"Where's general Hague?"
"General Hague... is doing Deep space Nine..."
Bruce McGill who plays Major Ed Ryan you may know him from National Lampoon's Animal House as Daniel Simpson 'D-Day' Day and in the TV series MacGyver as Jack Dalton.
He was also not the actor JMS wanted for the part. He wanted a different actor named Bruce but when he requested him he got the name mixed up and so they got him instead and it wasn't discovered until they were shooting for the episode and none of the uniforms fit him so wardrobe had to saw two uniform jackets together to fit him which is why it doesn't fit him very well. But JMS was glad of the mistake because him being older and out of shape along with his great acting and line delivery really helps sell the character and the emotions. He felt it added more authenticity.
I knew him from him playing Jack Dalton (and later from this). Just like I knew Richard Dean Anderson as MacGyver and later as Captain (and later General) Jack (ironic) O'Neill (with two L's as he holds up three fingers every time he says that).
It was natural; he was Vir's frat brother.
*sigh*
And Voyager. [BUZZER]
He was also in the final episode of Quantum Leap! He’s just a magnificent actor. Even if it was a mistake of getting him instead of the other actor they wanted, McGill just knocks it out of the park
For many of us OG fans Severed Dreams is one of our favs. Delenn's arrival is a thing of legend and since y'all began I could not wait till you saw it! At a time when there were so many "Damsel in distress" storylines, Delenn is exactly what you said....a Badass.
Delenn seems a little serious, "or in Valen's name I will tear this ship apart..." Why can't I get a woman like that?
❤loved your reaction to this one. Looking forward to seeing you again next week. Club 65
In the beginning when Major Ryan says, "I'll try to find something to say to both of their wives, God knows what," that was JMS's hint to us that Hague was dead. After all these years, only now did I catch it. Still learning I guess. The term you might be looking for about the next few episodes is 'taking stock'.
It's already a big hint that Ryan is in command, rather than Hague.
Coolest line!!! He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your life, be somewhere else. It's just BADASS
There are so many moments in this show where you go....Yes!!! or No!!! This is one of the best episodes of the entire series, but unfortunately, or fortunately, there are too many yes!!! and no!!! moments left to go in this series. Just thinking of some of them make want to scream in adulation and/or want to make you cry. If you want to know the difference between ANY Stark Trek series and Babylon 5...there are many Star Trek series episodes that make you smile or scream out, yes...but it was only a couple of the movies that ever made you want to cry. Babylon 5...has way too many of both, in just their series. Thank you, JMS...and thank you Jeff and Brent for helping me re-live some of those moments!
Well it was a long time coming, but you finally got your wish. Delenn was awesome in this one, who in their right minds would get in her way. Did you also notice that we had the new Mk 3 starfurys mixed in with the fighters, they are the longer more pointy streamlined ones designed for atmosphere, that bombed the domes on Mars.
Glad you finally got through this trilogy of episodes. Difficult not being able to say anything about your predictions since this was pretty much a three part episode...
And the thing is, each of those episodes are better than the one before it. The build up is so well done.
Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) broke his arm during the hand-to-hand combat scene. That's why his arm wasn't moving during the last scene.
Great reaction for a great episode. I have a story for this episode, but it needs to wait for the rewatch.
My favorite episode. SO many feels. "Hiroshi! Get out of there!" "Too late. . ."
As commented between Major Ryan and his officer, Clarkstown's forward interceptors (defensive fire) are down so the only thing keeping the Clarkstown from being destroyed is the reluctance of the captain of the Alexander to open fire.
THE most badass moment in SF history.
RIP Mira, you are missed❤
I was waiting for your reaction to this episode. Especially Delenns "be somewhere else" speech.
This episode is probably my second favorite overall and definitely my favorite Delenn scene. Looked like you enjoyed it as well!
One of the best lines in B5. I remember watching this first time round and I remember punching the air when the whitestar appeared.
The captain of the Alexander is played by Bruce McGill (best known for his role in Animal House) as a replacement for the suddenly-unavailable actor who played General Hague.
But this casting was by accident. JMS had another actor in mind with the same surname and confused his name with Bruce, and authorized the casting. Had he not made this error, this captain would have been played by EVERETT McGill, who played Stillgar in the original Dune movie from 1984.
Great episode. Loved Ivonova's optimistic "I can handle it" while the light in the cockpit says she's rolling ass over teakettle. Typical fighter pilot, but Chuck Yeager would be proud.
So would Porkins.
"If you value your lives, be somewhere else." is my third most favorite speech on the show. You have the two I like better still coming. And lots of great ones, that just did not make my top three.
I don't think I ever heard a more badass speech than Delenn's. Ever.
(But Ivanova gives a close second in S4. We'll discuss it when the time comes >:-D)
BTW, this might be the best Space Opera battle in TV history. The Expanse had a few good ones. Battlestar Galactica also had excellent ones. But I think this one takes the crown.
Man I always forget about Rance Howard. So much fun seeing him onscreen.
Star Trek royalty Clint Howard's dad!
It's one of my favorite episodes out of all 5 seasons.
This was the episode I was most waiting for them to get to, and the fact they've had the chance to let the series grow and then spring this on them...
And here it is. *The* episode.
"Bad Brent" 🤣🤣🤣 I still use "poor and inadequate" as an excuse in situations where I don't otherwise have the words. It describes my feelings about this episode, in fact.
This, this is the episode and react video I have been waiting for!!! The **Bad Brent** edit, nicely done
You may notice they misnamed some of the ships during the battle, if I remember correctly jms blamed the cgi team "foundation imaging" and led to the show creating its own cgi team called "netter digital".
I wonder how long the discussion on this episode will be on Monday.
At least 2 hours for sure
I'm so glad it falls on a holiday, because I can watch it in the morning, when usually I just have to listen to the podcast
Not long enough. 😁
Robert Foxworth, who played general Hague, was originally going to be in this episode. However, he ended up accepting a more lucrative guest role on DS9, and did that instead. So JMS killed his character off, and replaced his character with Bruce McGill as major Ryan.
Also, Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) broke his arm filming the battle scenes, but stuck it out. Watch how his arm bends as he drops his helmet at the end. The last scene of the episode was filmed earlier, but because he kept his hand in his pocket the whole scene it doesn’t break continuity too badly.
All the good predictions you have been having the last few episodes, and even last season -- all come to fruition here. It's great that a series gives the hints and still excites in their fulfillment
JMS, as a writer, says you gotta play fair and leave the hints. Kudos to Brett and Jeff for picking up all the bread crumbs. They finally get a big bite of sandwich here!
@@t3amtomahawk I think the phrase he used in his book on writing is that you want to give the audience a 'predictable surprise'. It should both be expectable when you rewatch the show, but be enjoyable as a surprise on the first watch