@@marcywusimp When Bojack told Todd he slept with Emily, Todd said “You can’t keep doing this, you can’t keep doing shitty things then say you feel bad about it. You have to be better. Fuck man, what else is there to say”
It's so nice to see an M-rated show that has respect for the f-word. The characters in Bojack Horseman don't just throw it around willy-nilly. When somebody in that show uses the word fuck, you know it's serious
@@sunburnsbright that’s how I’m trying to live my life, though. My father uses that word against me and my family multiple times a day, and it’s irritating. Now, it’s one of the most frequently used words in my vocabulary, and I hate it. I don’t want to be anything like him. Bojack Horseman taught me that using it less is much more powerful than using it all the time, and I’m trying to live by that. Angry people being angry wears on you, but compassionate people being angry makes you actually think about your actions.
Penny is a child. Children make stupid decisions. BoJack as the adult needs to make the responsible choice. As in, don’t sleep with the literal child of the woman you’re in love with.
@Autumn Potato Soooooo many people make this mistake, they make up an image of someone, they fall in love with it, and then they get disappointed and blame the other person when it turns out that they're not the person they thought they were in love with, but for them, the other person has changed and has betrayed them, tho they've always been that way
The scene with Charlotte might be the most effective use of the word I've seen in any show or movie. I don't remember ever cringing so hard from hearing the word "fuck."
The writers have said they will only feature the word "fuck" once per season and ONLY to signify the true death of a relationship. Any time someone says that word to BoJack, you truly know its over. Makes you wonder when we will hear it more than once in a season.
But wait hasn't the word "fuck" been used more than 3 times in the 3 seasons We've gotten so far? I could've sworn Dianes brother in S1 said something along the lines with "i'm american as fuck", i think there is one as well where Diane screams "MOTHERFUCKER" in the end of a season 3 episode, the one where It turns out she's pregnant i do believe?? Just some speculation, not Really sure If these are true, havent seen these episodes in awhile xD
I think he said it more like "American as fuh" and pronounced it really over the top. Plus in the end of the episode, she starts screaming "Mother-!" And it cuts off, then the next one opens with her finishing "er!" cleverly cutting out the actual fuck xD Yeah those are kinda cheating, but the use of the word fuck still is a lot more impactful when they keep it to really major moments.
Bojack Horseman utilises language to a point where we don't even notice the lack of swearing. Sure, there's nothing wrong with Family Guy swearing alot and even one of my favourite films 'her' uses it alot. However, the way they held back their use of such profanity allowed for the words to be a much bigger impact. From not hearing the word for a long while it becomes to foreign and makes us feel our heart think as no one in this world uses such wording except for dramatic effect. Bojack Horseman is a shining example of when restricting your language choice benefits you in the long run.
Skeeter Mania I literally said there was nothing wrong with it. I gave two examples where casual swearing is fine in a story. What I was talking about 4 years ago was how holding back on swearing gives it a much bigger punch when a show finally does decide to use it.
I remember thinking on the Penny episode, "Oh wow. At least Bojack has standards with Penny." But, no. I was so disappointed in him at that. I remember that being the first time I legitimately felt disappointed that Bojack did something. It was almost so bold it was out of character.
ECHO LEOPARD Don’t say that I don’t understand something just because my opinion isn’t in alignment with yours. It’s obviously a portrayal of a flawed person (didn’t say otherwise), and that in no way negates that he’s done shitty things like people do. I didn’t say he was a villain, but if you didn’t feel a bit disappointed by his actions with Penny you’re giving him too much credit.
The episode with Charlotte and Penny almost threw me into a panic attack. There have been many times I was in Penny’s situation and my mother was not there to save me. That’s when I lost all respect for BoJack.
Same. It wasn't a multiple times thing for me, and I didn't throw myself at anyone but...I lost all respect for the character, and started to despise the show.
People may say that Penny consent to this, but they forget that she's still young and consider a kid. Kids makes horrible decisions all the time. Bojack was the adult here, that's why I was so proud of him saying No at first. But then, when Charlotte finally rejected him and made the decision to choose her family instead of Bojack, that was the time he wanted it.
@@marvelousmeh2077 That’s not what the law would say. I get what people mean when they say what you say, but consent laws are there for a reason. Penny is not a kid and her horrible decisions are not because she is a “kid.” They are just bluntly her horrible decisions. Adults make horrible decisions all the time there is no age where that stops being true, they’re *both* wrong.
@@brandonwilliams6221 There was no mention of the law. It was about maturity. Penny could hardly be considered mature in any way except physical. It's in these situations where more responsibility falls on the mature and experienced adult to navigate them correctly. They both knew what they were doing, and they both made the wrong decisions, but one of them should have known _better._
This is why I don't believe in "bad words." Strong words maybe, but they're often used for sending a strong, emotional signal. Like in these two scenes.
@@febefox5930 excessive use isnt usually meaning an insult... If someone uses the word "fuck" a lot, its usually among friends in a casual setting, and "fuck" is just how they get their point across/how they talk
Swear words use the same brain circuitry that animals use to warn others of nearby predators. They are literally different from any other type of word, so it is perfectly reasonable to be mad when someone curses at you, especially when it is unwarranted and by someone who is close to you. They are basically calling you a predator that means you harm, and that's not fucking nice.
everyone seems to be talking about the power of "fuck" in the scene with Charlotte but I would argue that the real power comes from the entire line "I will fucking kill you". she trusted him, she let him live on her property, all based on who he was decades ago and this is what he does in return for her hospitality. also not to mention it's delivered perfectly at just the right moment. powerful shit.
And eventually Bojack goes back to Penny to apologize but by then she has already realized what was so fcked up about what they were about to do as well as what kind of person bojack was. And so ultimately rejecting him completely. It was satisfying.
+Dragonwing16 The creator actually said that Bojack didn't do any of it out of malice, it's just that he's got the mindset of a teenager. So I guess you could say he did it subconsciously.
Hating the age of consent comments here. Everyone, in America if you're still a minor and the age of consent is below that, it only protects with a 4 year age gap. Bojack is ABOVE 50. BESIDES THE GIRL HAS NO ADULT EXPERIENCE AND BOJACK HAS LIKE 30-40 YEARS OF IT. I would see the arguments for Bojack if he KEPT refusing Penny But at the end, no "no" nor physical reaction of no came up.
The blame folks put on Penny completely missed the context of the whole damn episode and even BOJACK HIMSELF is shown to disagree with that argument anyway because HE KNOWS that he was in the wrong. The context of the whole episode being that Penny trusted adults around her, and he was her mom's friend and took her on a DATE and everyone was ok with that. He gave a bunch of romantic gestures and handwaved away any issues that happened that night. She wasn't completely inexperienced or ignorant--what she was was confused by his complete lack of boundaries and everyone else being seemingly fine with it, on top of being at a crossroads in her life where she was excited but not fully understanding of what adulthood brings. His arrested development made him act like one of her peers--just with access to alcohol. He was "cool" in that sense, but also a permissive authority figure who let her try new things, and gave her a lot of attention. Attractive traits to a teenager. And when he suddenly had boundaries with her, they came very late and very inconsistent, adding to her confusion. Basically, he groomed her. Not intentionally to sexualize her until Charlotte turned him down, but to feed his ego and relive his youth. He used her and it has come so naturally to him that he doesn't even realize it. And with the harm he's done to PC, Gina, and Wanda, he was sure to harm Penny who didn't yet understand adulthood and complex relationship boundaries. Hell, if she was 18 it still would have been harmful, much like it was to other young women who hadn't fully developed their boundaries. But a minor has even less agency and power. And YES, neck beards, 18 is a "magic number" because you've presumably completed your most necessary education, you can buy a car in your own name, you can move wherever you can make a living, you can pursue a degree or you can hike through India on your own. Things that 17 year olds in the US can't do. And getting that freedom for the first time changes you and your whole world. A lot happens at 18. At 19 I had no interest in 17 year olds for that very reason. If anything, I put more blame on Charlotte than I do on Penny for allowing the "date" in the first place, especially because she still barely knew Bojack after all this time. But like her daughter she is very trusting of people. But ultimately, as an adult should, she took clear and decisive action the INSTANT she realized something was wrong.
@@jordanjoestar-turniptruck not reading all of that, but yeah even Bojack knows he was wrong. That's why he had a fucking panic attack when he found out he was gonna get interviewed by the law 💀 Also, when he went on the ride with Sarah Lynn where he was supposed to be dumping his emotional shit whie taking drugs, he was talking about Todd, PC, Diane, Herb in mean spirited ways saying that all of them was wrong, especially Todd for saying "you are all of the things that are wrong with you" but the moment Bojack realized he was in New Mexico, he snapped out of it and was getting anxious. Because that's the only bad decision where he couldn't defend himself or convince himself that he wasn't wrong. Even he knew he fucked up 🤦
You can tell who the creeps are by seeing how strongly they defend the age of consent. You don’t just magically mature the day you turn 16,17,18 or whatever the age of consent is! It’s sick
Real people do things out of character. No matter how well you think you know someone you really don’t know them. BoJack is a good example of someone who puts on an act so well you don’t know the real them.
I must admit I lost a lot of respect and sympathy for Bojack when he apparently tried it on with Penny. I use the word "apparently" because he rejected her twice before, and we don't see what led up to them being alone in the boat at the end. But Bojack's lack of denyal to Charlotte really tells that he was guilty. It's a shame, I thought he was better than that.
@@ussishkingang7194 i think his comment meant that he didnt respond to Charlotte because he knew there was nothing he could say to deny his actions since he was caught red handed, and i think it was obvious in this scene that he was going to go through with it....i mean rewatching the second the door opens his hand is already kinda goin up her skirt...👀 he was definitely gonna do it. Its...honestly not out of his character to do it either. What makes this even worse is that its with his friends kid, not just some random 17 year old.
I will never get over the constrast in bojacks and pennys responses when she opens the door. The writers and voice actors are so goddamned amazing. Pennys "Mom!" Is the confused panic of a child. She sees her mom is mad and feels shes done wrong, but doesnt even know what or why. "We didnt even do anything!" She clearly knows SOMETHING is wrong, but is too niave to actially grasp it. Bojack however "Charlotte." Its a calm collected response, and already has built in remorse. His literal very first thought ANYTIME he gets caught is "oh shit how do i cover my ass"
I like Charlotte she is a real good mom to Penny by threatening the man who would've had his way with her if Charlotte hadn't found them in his boathouse about to do it
When it comes to swear words, less is absolutely more. It’s so chilling hearing herb telling Bojack to “get the fuck outta my house” because he seems like such a positive happy guy.
The end of season 2 destroyed me, I feel so much empathy for Bojack because I know whats like to dont know how to be happy and live with that everyday, pushing your love ones away... but Bojack destroying his friendship with perhaps the only girl that really understands him was too hard to watch, he almost did something so wrong! I never expected to see something like this on an animated show, I will eagerly wait for season 3 to come.
I just started watching BoJack and always though beforehand that he was just a good guy who made terrible mistakes and choices, which might still be true (not done watching it). But when I started watching it, I just saw how terrible of a person (or horse) he is. Most of the time I can’t even find a hint of sympathy to give him because he only thought of himself when he made choices, even when it was supposed to be for the benefit of someone else. And knowing there’s more coming (and seeing the Charlotte thing, which I haven’t gotten to yet) I see he’s probably going to do worse.
@@Beerbottles123 not exactly, because it's true that he damaged himself and others but he never found some normal friend who understood him until the end when he already had rehabbed by his actions not by the someone else advice.
Discord betrayed ponieś to Tirek and was forgiven. Sunset Shimmer was a total B-word but was forgiven. She's darn lucky these "humans" are ponieś at heart. On our Earth she would end up dead. Starlight Glimmer turned mane 5 into drones doing her bidding in post-redemption season and was forgiven. Bojack would do fine in Ecquestria.
These were the moments when i thought "huh, so you can make an awful-personality character for a protagonist and make it work" i love this show, i love how you dont need to like bojack, i like that, these are human characters, you can like them and dislike them, there is no real villain
I mean, in this show we see that's he's awful but doesn't want to be. He messed up badly in his life, basically wasting 30 years doing nothing and cannot get his sh together, but he both realises it and doesn't want that (but doesn't do anything with it). I think many people can actually see themselves in this character.
Just finished season 2. Damn, this shit was so painful to watch. I didn't think they could top the emotional weight of season one, but I think they did. :(
Dr. Jackal with season 2 when Bojack meets Charlotte aging and in the end he destroyed Charlotte friendship with Herb and knowing Herb was right about him and leaving him Sad and Ashamed of him self
He lost his two best friends because of himself. I don't know he does it, he just automatically fuck up all of his relationahips. Toddler at one point, Wanda etc.
+Jack Norman Eh, I think he kinda saved his friendship with Todd until his next major fuckup. He lost Herb a long time ago and wasn't such a close friend to Charlotte to begin with. Can't disagree on Wanda tho... makes you kinda lose hope for him.
It’s like what that therapy horse form rehab said to him about how he pushes away all the people that are closest to him or something along those lines
The amount of creeps defending Bojack because of his pity attempts at rejecting her is sickening. "hE sAiD nO" "Ah jeez man, guess since he said "no" he is absolutely clear of nearly fucking a 17 y/o being a *50 y/o* himself I didn't know people could do that man if only Pedos were this smart they wouldn't be in jail am I rite?" Now listen, Im against the whole "below 18 means dumb as bricks" argument, rationality is never to come at X age for biology (at least some of the times), let alone legal terms, but if you are a grown ass adult you should know when to draw the line *for real* rather than being the "victim". It would be understandable if you were like, overpowered somehow but being psychologically incapable of putting a 17 y/o back to her place or even discipline her? You must be either a mastermind of playing victim or the weakest adult ever. You can argue that Bojack "had no time", but he clearly did have a dead line to obey himself and yet ignored it, letting the situation draw further in depth to a point he was cornered unwillingly. Its like entering an alley known for being full of aggressive stabbers knowing that info and later be surprised because you got stabbed. You knew what you were doing yet you didn't stop, that's on your fault.
I just read a comment that said it's 'unrealistic' that this moment scarred Penny for life because in real life penny would resent her mother for interrupting 🤦♀️ Just because that's how teens are portrayed in sitcoms doesn't mean that's how they act. And even if she _didn't_ think it was such a big deal in that moment, she would have eventually realised that she almost helped slept with a man in his 50s that left her friends in ER and didn't give a fuck.
I mean, it was mentioned in this episode, that in that state age of consent was 17 or higher. In some countries it's even lower - Poland has 15, for example (but with culture expecting teenagers to act like adults. For example, when you're 17 in Poland and you comit a felony, you're charged as an adult).
i honestly never noticed that the word fuck was used so sparsely. thats a really interesting move utilizing it so sparingly to make important scenes give you an extra hard punch in the gut
A huge problem with adult animation I have is the overuse of the Fbomb, saying it over and over kind of takes the harshness out of the word. Bojack is the only show I know to use it only once every season, it makes every scene it's in so much more important.
The scene where Charlotte used “the f-word” really made me shudder when I first saw it! Judging from the comments, I wasn’t the only one. This is a great example of how well-written this show is
Totally ( 0 _ 0 ) I believe Charlotte was restraining herself from hurting/killing Bojack in that scene; just the use of that f-word from her made me shook to the very core. It literally made me misremember her dialogue and thought she said "If you don't leave within 30 minutes, I'm going to fucking kill you"
Right!!! I finished watching it maybe 2 months back & I have no idea why they made it so deep, it seriously downed my mood. Especially the last few episodes. I wish they would've kept in some serious elements (like Princess Carolyn's baby situation) but toned it down on BoJack's entire life.
@@clalyrics441 eh I liked the idea. Other adult animated shows that I've watch tend to have no meaning until the last episodes. Bojack horseman was always so deep and depressing at times. It brought you back to reality by showing a events of a troubled man.
I liked it for that reason. Any show can make a love story where everything ends up back to normal in the end, but Bojack really shows reality isn't like that. Hit harder then any other show has.
I always felt I related most to the daughter in this scene, thinking I knew what I wanted and that by acting like I was the one who initiated contact with these older men that it was ok when they met me, I was 15 when I had my first proper hook up with someone much older then me and they were a primary school teacher and I never saw a problem with it until I reflected on this scene, so sad that some people don’t get that bojack is 100% in the wrong for this as it shows how society places more blame on the victim then the perpetrator. You should really be careful of which adults you put your faith in as your blind trust in them may be how they are able to manipulate you.
Gosh, those scenes were really something. That whole night I lost a lot of hope that Bojack could ever be happy. Getting teens drunk, not taking accountability for it, and then accepting Penny's advances. I can totally see why Penny developed the trauma she did. I want to believe that Bojack would have stopped, but no one will ever know, not even Bojack. Fuck...
Indeed. Penny was an inexperienced 17 year old and Bojack is much MUCH older than her. It was incredibly fucked up of him to do that. She trusted him and he took advantage of her.
I don't know, he didn't have that much of a deep and important relationship with Bojack, loose casual acquaintances at best. Personally, I'm betting more on Mr. Peanutbutter or Diane (if it turns out to be the latter, I suspect it's gonna be particularly nasty and painful), as Princess Carolyn's relations with Bojack loosened and improved a bit after she stopped working for him and there's less co-dependency at play. I hope it won't be his daughter, as one season is a bit little time to really get to know her, especially with all the simmering crises going on around the plot (Mr. Peanutbutter becoming governor, possible shenanigans with his ex-wife, Diane having to choose between loyalty to the new employer vs. loyalty to her husband, Ethan Around, possible drama at Princess Carolyn's job or with her boyfriend, heck, even Uncle Frankie trying to get revenge, possibilities are endless). It would be really a shame to just see a bit of her for a few scenes and then have her cut off all the possible budding relationship she could have had with Bojack. Coming back to the possibility of Diane or Mr. Peanutbutter being the one to drop the "fuck" of the next season, I think it might have to do with Bojack being involved in the drama likely to ensue between the two of them, due to the conflict of interest between Cabracadabra and Girl Khrush. In case it's gonna be Mr. Peanutbutter, I think Bojack's grudge about the Oscars might get addressed one more time; Bojack isn't one likely to get over a wrongdoing like that easily. What would be a shame, would be seeing Kelsey be the one to cut off ties with Bojack. They have such a great chemistry and I would love to see more involving both of them (as friends and co-workers, obviously), but the way things look like right now, things are likely to spiral downwards between them.
I think it's going to be BoJack's mom since she is going to be in Season 4. I think she is going to say to BoJack on her death bed "You were always a fucking disappointment" or "I never fucking loved you"
To those of you out there saying it's okay to have sex with a minor, please comment so I can put you on a watch list and make sure you aren't in my neighborhood ready to groom children. Thanks.
That’s the really messed up part of the situation everyone ignores. It’s bad enough that Penny’s 17, barely the age of consent, and even worse that she’s the daughter of a friend of BoJack’s. But the fact that he only accepts her advances after Charlotte rejects him is just… a whole other level of exploitation.
@@helenaperez4343 or you could see it as fact that he was hurting and just looking for a moment of escape. He didn't try to go for penny. He just said fuck it. We'll get drunk and party. Then when in that half drunk state. She comes on to him. Yes he should have said no. But it was stuck in a no win scenario. He hurts her feelings either way. But in one he isn't seen as the villain. As if her mom didn't show up. It would have been a crappy fuck. That penny would have regretted. And most likely avoid bo after. Bo would have feel uncomfortable and left. Since her mom killed any dreams he has with her. And to avoid penny. They would have been in the same point. But he would have feel good for that few moments. Which is what he always picked. To avoid the pain. He is a victim. But one of his own making.
When Bojack makes horrible decisions, he always has a scene where he's denying it and somehow convincing himself (and others) that he's not in the wrong. But whenever he remembers New Mexico, he freezes and snaps back to reality When he was on a drug trip with Sarah Lynn, he's "apologizing" to the people he wronged but he wasn't really apologizing, he was just trying to make himself feel better. But the moment he woke up in New Mexico, he was almost having a panic attack just hearing Sarah Lynn say it. Then when Charlotte called him and said that he's gonna get interviewed about New Mexico, Bojack literally fainted To all the people defending Bojack, even he knew he fucked up and did something unredeemable. I usually am not one to fight with people who ship characters who have like a 5 year age gap because it is big, there have been bigger and it doesn't always mean there's grooming being done. But Bojack was OVER 50. Penny had zero experience in any intimacy and Bojack had over 30 years of it. I'm almost 19 with no experience and I'd feel weird doing it with someone who's25 even if I find them extremely attractive
BoJack did an amazing job with portraying mental health and the effects it has on the people around you. Honestly, I’m mad at myself that I didn’t watch this until now
Like the way this show explains life-you never really learn from your mistakes, you just keep repeating them endlessly until you you have nothing left. People don’t change, they either get worse or hide their flaws
Every time I see this scene I hope in the pit of my stomach that he’s still rebuffing penny, And every time I have to pause with her about to undress the strange man that crashed into her family’s life. And the way he describes that night like he was helpless to refuse. It was shot so perfectly, giving just enough information to inform his action but cast doubt if he really was gonna go through with it. And I love Pete repeats retelling of that night. It’s frames this whole scene so darkly, like perhaps Bo Jack was intentionally grooming penny, a younger version of her mom, who’s easily manipulated, similar to princess Caroline, a young woman he might have also groomed into a relationship.
It creeps me out to know what BoJack was ready to do to Penny if not for Charlotte. God... me and Penny were born in the same year. I can't imagine a 50+ year old woman coming on to me the way BoJack did to her.
That hit me man. I was going through a very shitty time and was rejected by a girl cuz it was all in my head. Had ADHD afterwards, always a bad time and could relate to Bojack so much. Besides the almost underage nonsense scene, just his depression really hit me hard.
There's also a really powerful moment with the f-word. It was a conversation with Todd talking about how Bojack keeps blaming his bad behavior on everyone, but in the end, he said 'fuck, man...', like if what he just said was worthless because he thought Bojack couldn't change. That scene almost destroyed me.
This show and breaking bad both had the characters swear a lot, but they reserved the f word only for scenes where characters ended relationships between each other
Man I miss talking about this show with my math class and teacher when I was in high school. This show had no right to be as good as it was. In the end Bojack got what he deserved even though we know he’s gotten better that doesn’t excuse the sins of his past and he has to live with that.
The use of “fuck” in BoJack Horseman is great. You see a lot in this show, but characters don’t use “fuck” in everyday speech. Sure, they say shit, bitch, asshole, but man...when they go off and tensions climax, a “fuck” takes this climaxed tension and breaks it. In doing so it breaks your mind and heart. Something is drastically different.
Obviously this is an older clip so they're not included here, but in the newer seasons we also get f-bombs from Gina and Todd, both directed at Bojack. This show's usage of the f-bomb is insanely well thought out, as it is never used explicitly unless there's a major breakdown in a relationship.
Age of consent is TECHNICALLY applicable but it can’t be denied bojack made predatory choices. It’s like getting with someone who JUST turned 18 when you’re 40. Yeah technically it’s not illegal, but you cannot deny that you had to jump through a few moral hoops to think it’s ok
The use of the word "fuck" in this series was so good. I'm not one who's like "cursing is so unnecessary, makes you sound dumb!" But if it's used excessively then it begins to lose meaning and you eventually get desensitized to it. I think that using it so rarely and in heavy moments like these really helps pack a harder punch, and if it was used more frequently then it wouldn't have had the same effect.
You know what makes these words more powerful? Is that both the characters who say it are obviously less "powerful" than BoJack in some shape or form. Having them say the world so justifiably puts BoJack in a place non of the privileges he has or had could take him out: The fact that he's lonely by his own fault...
I strongly agree with the philosophy of using strong words as sparingly as possible, a guy I used to work with put it like this "I don't curse because I don't want to words to lose their impact, that's why if I curse, you know something is very wrong" Also, on another note, we actually have a main protagonist of a series that was willing to submit to the whims of a child for sexual pleasure, the significance of that is astonishing, all too often protagonists are made to be paragons of good or always right in one way or another, always having a good reason for things and on the flip side, a lot of protagonists with flaws or make mistakes, don't have such severe flaws, such as being clumsy or dishonest at times, we don't have protagonists with practically irredeemable flaws, like racism or pedophilia, because it's so touchy and people are predisposed to believe that someone with those flaws is evil no matter what and that they are either incapable of doing good deeds or that any good deeds they have done no longer matter and going on to mistakes it's much the same, mistakes and evil actions are also either avoided or trivialized, never given a huge repercussion on the character, a person who mercilessly rapes and murders a family of 5 is irredeemable under any circumstances to almost anyone, regardless if they repent for 40 years, or donate every belonging and wealth to charity, or save countless lives directly because of their intervention, those acts or heroism are overwritten and/or ignored by most. So, seeing Bojack (the main protagonist of his series) do something unforgivable by many, is refreshing and honest in a way. ALL PEOPLE have shitty flaws and are fully capable of performing horrible acts, whether that's because of a momentary lapse of judgement, whether from influence of substances or emotional trauma is rarely relevant or justifiable to most. I believe all characters should have horrible, honest, ugly, flaws.
The Penny thing was the only thing Bojack did that I found to be unredeemable, but as the series progressed and he grew it about killed me when it came back on him.
Something in me wants Bojack himself to drop the f-bomb at some point in the show, either to reject his flaws and improve or just... reject himself altogether. Knowing the nature of the show, it's impossible to know what is going to happen. Guess we'll just have to wait until Season 4.
I was thinking this as well. Maybe he could find a way to say "fuck" to himself to signify he's cutting ties with his old self and he would actually be good from then on.
This is what most “adult” cartoons should strive to be. Instead of using the word “fuck” in every sentence, only use it in serious moments, just like what Bojack does. The impact hits much harder
Siempre crei que Bojack queria acostarse con Penny porque queria hacer daño a Charlotte, ya sea consiente o inconsientemente, y si, es tan cruel y despiadado que es una posibilidad fatible
+Suggie Thames the writers get you with that, at first it seems a happy episode, then they *presuambly* peak the attention in the episode ( that girl who got to drunk) so you think its downhill from here, then there blows a nuke like that, it is a Powerful tool to use, but you can only pull it of 4-5 times
They only used the word “fuck” about once per season to show a pivotal moment in the series and these were just the epitamy of souls crushing pivotal moments. The second I saw BoJack and penny doing that I lost my liking for him as a character. But his growth beyond this moment and eventual realization and coming to terms with himself is really what keeps you around to see what happens.
I was so proud of BoJack for once having standards, with Penny and Charlotte. Fast forward 5 minutes later, I'm screaming at the TV Screen- 'Bojack, no, don't do it, BOJACK NO DON'T'
I remember getting so mad at the scene with penny. Bojack not being quick to stop her and being uncomfortable but still not stopping it, we not knowing if he would go with it and then also with penny. Like girl what you doing?!🤦♀️
What makes it worse was that he genuinely rejected her, but LEFT THE DOOR OPEN. Why? So he won’t feel guilty if she does enter and try again, because that’s when he’ll think that it’s her fault and not his. Him leaving the door open is his way of saying “I don’t want to feel bad about it so I’ll shift the blame to her while I enjoy it.”
Развлечения
The way the show only uses the word“fuck” when Bojack has irreversibly hurt a relationship is so well thought out
Who's BH?
@@Noobmasterdp the main character
I didn't watched the show, but the fact that you say it like it happened more than once really establish my point of view around this poor thing.
What about Todd?
@@marcywusimp When Bojack told Todd he slept with Emily, Todd said “You can’t keep doing this, you can’t keep doing shitty things then say you feel bad about it. You have to be better. Fuck man, what else is there to say”
It's so nice to see an M-rated show that has respect for the f-word. The characters in Bojack Horseman don't just throw it around willy-nilly. When somebody in that show uses the word fuck, you know it's serious
Respect for f-word?
In real life people only use the f word if they are really pissed
@@adriankoh4859 you’re hanging around a very specific group of people, my friend
It's funny that I never use these words when I'm dead serious because I don't need to them to know that I will take actions.
@@sunburnsbright that’s how I’m trying to live my life, though. My father uses that word against me and my family multiple times a day, and it’s irritating. Now, it’s one of the most frequently used words in my vocabulary, and I hate it. I don’t want to be anything like him. Bojack Horseman taught me that using it less is much more powerful than using it all the time, and I’m trying to live by that. Angry people being angry wears on you, but compassionate people being angry makes you actually think about your actions.
These scenes were so powerful, not to mention it was the two closest friends in his past
It's even more powerful in its use in S3
The Charlotte part fucking shattered me
I feel nothing from this.
Skeeter Mania, you have no appreciation for quality animation that’s why.
Shooky Or I just have a differing opinion. Either’s possible.
Penny is a child. Children make stupid decisions. BoJack as the adult needs to make the responsible choice. As in, don’t sleep with the literal child of the woman you’re in love with.
EXACTLY
@Autumn Potato Soooooo many people make this mistake, they make up an image of someone, they fall in love with it, and then they get disappointed and blame the other person when it turns out that they're not the person they thought they were in love with, but for them, the other person has changed and has betrayed them, tho they've always been that way
Y-yeah... we know that. Idk why people are acting like this is new Info or something
@@eggdude5460 Haha funny story Mark
@@thanhlamb pog good for you hope you are ok in the future that can take alot of bravery to do
Never in my life, has a deer intimidated me so much.
Deer anthro you mean
and a doe to 😓
You haven't had a 10-point buck in your back yard, then. :D
How about now with the zombie deer virus?????
Kinda ironic
The scene with Charlotte might be the most effective use of the word I've seen in any show or movie. I don't remember ever cringing so hard from hearing the word "fuck."
Definitely.
+dunder567 Mmmm i dunno. Walt's Fuck You to Gretchen was cringe worthy too. In a good way.
IveGotToast Breaking Bad's another show that made very good use of the word.
+dunder567 If you're going to use it, use it correctly. Credit to the writers of BoJack for keeping the profanity at an acceptable level.
+dunder567 Yep. Skyler: "I fucked Ted."
The writers have said they will only feature the word "fuck" once per season and ONLY to signify the true death of a relationship. Any time someone says that word to BoJack, you truly know its over.
Makes you wonder when we will hear it more than once in a season.
But wait hasn't the word "fuck" been used more than 3 times in the 3 seasons We've gotten so far?
I could've sworn Dianes brother in S1 said something along the lines with "i'm american as fuck", i think there is one as well where Diane screams "MOTHERFUCKER" in the end of a season 3 episode, the one where It turns out she's pregnant i do believe??
Just some speculation, not Really sure If these are true, havent seen these episodes in awhile xD
I think he said it more like "American as fuh" and pronounced it really over the top. Plus in the end of the episode, she starts screaming "Mother-!" And it cuts off, then the next one opens with her finishing "er!" cleverly cutting out the actual fuck xD Yeah those are kinda cheating, but the use of the word fuck still is a lot more impactful when they keep it to really major moments.
Todd said fuck...
Fuck now he's gone too?...
Mukagas
Yes.
Meanwhile irl the word fuck is now an adverb
Bojack Horseman utilises language to a point where we don't even notice the lack of swearing. Sure, there's nothing wrong with Family Guy swearing alot and even one of my favourite films 'her' uses it alot. However, the way they held back their use of such profanity allowed for the words to be a much bigger impact. From not hearing the word for a long while it becomes to foreign and makes us feel our heart think as no one in this world uses such wording except for dramatic effect. Bojack Horseman is a shining example of when restricting your language choice benefits you in the long run.
What about Spawn TAS?
Uhh, what are you talking about? What’s wrong with gratuitous swearing?
Skeeter Mania I literally said there was nothing wrong with it. I gave two examples where casual swearing is fine in a story. What I was talking about 4 years ago was how holding back on swearing gives it a much bigger punch when a show finally does decide to use it.
Wait the Movie 'Her' has swearing? Hmm I never noticed
You just explained to me why I should hold my swears. I wish you well for this.
I remember thinking on the Penny episode, "Oh wow. At least Bojack has standards with Penny." But, no. I was so disappointed in him at that. I remember that being the first time I legitimately felt disappointed that Bojack did something. It was almost so bold it was out of character.
the-twisted-samurai Same here. I was like “Come on, man...”
ECHO LEOPARD Don’t say that I don’t understand something just because my opinion isn’t in alignment with yours. It’s obviously a portrayal of a flawed person (didn’t say otherwise), and that in no way negates that he’s done shitty things like people do. I didn’t say he was a villain, but if you didn’t feel a bit disappointed by his actions with Penny you’re giving him too much credit.
@@Ms-pr7fe big mistake is kind of an understatement...
I always thought it was out of character as well
This is deadass how I felt too
The episode with Charlotte and Penny almost threw me into a panic attack. There have been many times I was in Penny’s situation and my mother was not there to save me. That’s when I lost all respect for BoJack.
Same. It wasn't a multiple times thing for me, and I didn't throw myself at anyone but...I lost all respect for the character, and started to despise the show.
People may say that Penny consent to this, but they forget that she's still young and consider a kid. Kids makes horrible decisions all the time. Bojack was the adult here, that's why I was so proud of him saying No at first. But then, when Charlotte finally rejected him and made the decision to choose her family instead of Bojack, that was the time he wanted it.
@@marvelousmeh2077 That’s not what the law would say. I get what people mean when they say what you say, but consent laws are there for a reason. Penny is not a kid and her horrible decisions are not because she is a “kid.” They are just bluntly her horrible decisions. Adults make horrible decisions all the time there is no age where that stops being true, they’re *both* wrong.
Im so sorry to hear that! Best wishes for the life ahead of you! :)
@@brandonwilliams6221
There was no mention of the law. It was about maturity. Penny could hardly be considered mature in any way except physical. It's in these situations where more responsibility falls on the mature and experienced adult to navigate them correctly. They both knew what they were doing, and they both made the wrong decisions, but one of them should have known _better._
Love the tragic irony, in trying to recapture something with Charlotte through Penny, Bojack utterly severs his ties with both of them forever
This is why I don't believe in "bad words." Strong words maybe, but they're often used for sending a strong, emotional signal. Like in these two scenes.
You have a big smart brain,i appreciate that.
Wooord
Same! I just think excessive use is lazy in most situations. Be witty and creative! Make your own insults!
@@febefox5930 excessive use isnt usually meaning an insult... If someone uses the word "fuck" a lot, its usually among friends in a casual setting, and "fuck" is just how they get their point across/how they talk
Swear words use the same brain circuitry that animals use to warn others of nearby predators. They are literally different from any other type of word, so it is perfectly reasonable to be mad when someone curses at you, especially when it is unwarranted and by someone who is close to you. They are basically calling you a predator that means you harm, and that's not fucking nice.
everyone seems to be talking about the power of "fuck" in the scene with Charlotte but I would argue that the real power comes from the entire line "I will fucking kill you". she trusted him, she let him live on her property, all based on who he was decades ago and this is what he does in return for her hospitality. also not to mention it's delivered perfectly at just the right moment. powerful shit.
I mean, he just finished trying to break up her marriage, then it looks like he went after her daughter.
@@animateddepressionhe didn’t go after her he didn’t do anything she came onto him and he tried to stop it, he did try to break up the marriage tho
@@Youdontneedtoknowmyname-zw1trhe didn't follow through. He left the door open
@@od3910 oooh
@@Youdontneedtoknowmyname-zw1trkinda of missing the point when he says later he hopes he would have done the right thing.
Season 3's use of it with Todd... that one was pretty hard too.
what episode did todd say it?
+Aalim Chin season 3 ep 11
+Not jaden Carl No, it was episode 10.
Diane said it too. In the Sextina episode.
nope, she said "motherf-" then was cut off until the next episode where she says "ucker"
Two pivotal scenes: The first showing that he there are some aspects of his past he can't fix, the second showing that he hasn't really tried.
And eventually Bojack goes back to Penny to apologize but by then she has already realized what was so fcked up about what they were about to do as well as what kind of person bojack was. And so ultimately rejecting him completely. It was satisfying.
Well he’d been on like a month-long bender so… apologize is maybe a bit strong.
Oh she knew. She was old enough to know
@@Cherry-pu4mx
...bruh
@@Cherry-pu4mx she is a kid.
@@Cherry-pu4mxshe was f 17.
Gina's "what the fuck is wrong with you" is super powerful
I couldn't help but shout "Noooo!" as Bojack was fucking up his situation with Charlotte. It hits too close to home. :(
giraffedreams I think it was already fucked up. He just needed to push it to its end and sever that tie for good.
jurpentine Never say never bro. There's always a chance!
+Dr. Jackal no man, i mean im not a mother or a parent for that matter, but you just don't get between shit like that.
+jurpentine it's almost like he does it subconsciously
+Dragonwing16 The creator actually said that Bojack didn't do any of it out of malice, it's just that he's got the mindset of a teenager. So I guess you could say he did it subconsciously.
Hating the age of consent comments here. Everyone, in America if you're still a minor and the age of consent is below that, it only protects with a 4 year age gap. Bojack is ABOVE 50.
BESIDES
THE GIRL HAS NO ADULT EXPERIENCE AND BOJACK HAS LIKE
30-40 YEARS OF IT. I would see the arguments for Bojack if he KEPT refusing Penny
But at the end, no "no" nor physical reaction of no came up.
Yeah their just justifying their own actions and pedophilic thoughts. their fucking sickos. Glad someone else knows this.
Also Bojack should have also literally told her no more firmly!!!
The blame folks put on Penny completely missed the context of the whole damn episode and even BOJACK HIMSELF is shown to disagree with that argument anyway because HE KNOWS that he was in the wrong.
The context of the whole episode being that Penny trusted adults around her, and he was her mom's friend and took her on a DATE and everyone was ok with that. He gave a bunch of romantic gestures and handwaved away any issues that happened that night. She wasn't completely inexperienced or ignorant--what she was was confused by his complete lack of boundaries and everyone else being seemingly fine with it, on top of being at a crossroads in her life where she was excited but not fully understanding of what adulthood brings. His arrested development made him act like one of her peers--just with access to alcohol. He was "cool" in that sense, but also a permissive authority figure who let her try new things, and gave her a lot of attention. Attractive traits to a teenager. And when he suddenly had boundaries with her, they came very late and very inconsistent, adding to her confusion. Basically, he groomed her. Not intentionally to sexualize her until Charlotte turned him down, but to feed his ego and relive his youth. He used her and it has come so naturally to him that he doesn't even realize it. And with the harm he's done to PC, Gina, and Wanda, he was sure to harm Penny who didn't yet understand adulthood and complex relationship boundaries. Hell, if she was 18 it still would have been harmful, much like it was to other young women who hadn't fully developed their boundaries. But a minor has even less agency and power. And YES, neck beards, 18 is a "magic number" because you've presumably completed your most necessary education, you can buy a car in your own name, you can move wherever you can make a living, you can pursue a degree or you can hike through India on your own. Things that 17 year olds in the US can't do. And getting that freedom for the first time changes you and your whole world. A lot happens at 18. At 19 I had no interest in 17 year olds for that very reason.
If anything, I put more blame on Charlotte than I do on Penny for allowing the "date" in the first place, especially because she still barely knew Bojack after all this time. But like her daughter she is very trusting of people. But ultimately, as an adult should, she took clear and decisive action the INSTANT she realized something was wrong.
@@jordanjoestar-turniptruck not reading all of that, but yeah even Bojack knows he was wrong. That's why he had a fucking panic attack when he found out he was gonna get interviewed by the law 💀
Also, when he went on the ride with Sarah Lynn where he was supposed to be dumping his emotional shit whie taking drugs, he was talking about Todd, PC, Diane, Herb in mean spirited ways saying that all of them was wrong, especially Todd for saying "you are all of the things that are wrong with you" but the moment Bojack realized he was in New Mexico, he snapped out of it and was getting anxious. Because that's the only bad decision where he couldn't defend himself or convince himself that he wasn't wrong.
Even he knew he fucked up 🤦
You can tell who the creeps are by seeing how strongly they defend the age of consent. You don’t just magically mature the day you turn 16,17,18 or whatever the age of consent is! It’s sick
Real people do things out of character. No matter how well you think you know someone you really don’t know them. BoJack is a good example of someone who puts on an act so well you don’t know the real them.
This really only applies to a minority of people with personality disorders and mental illnesses
I must admit I lost a lot of respect and sympathy for Bojack when he apparently tried it on with Penny. I use the word "apparently" because he rejected her twice before, and we don't see what led up to them being alone in the boat at the end. But Bojack's lack of denyal to Charlotte really tells that he was guilty. It's a shame, I thought he was better than that.
His lack of denial could've also meant that he saw no purpose in a conversation with Charlotte and just accepted it as it was
Conway79 never really got over the pedo part of it
Juan Naym nah he said in later seasons he was going to do it
@@ussishkingang7194 i think his comment meant that he didnt respond to Charlotte because he knew there was nothing he could say to deny his actions since he was caught red handed, and i think it was obvious in this scene that he was going to go through with it....i mean rewatching the second the door opens his hand is already kinda goin up her skirt...👀 he was definitely gonna do it. Its...honestly not out of his character to do it either. What makes this even worse is that its with his friends kid, not just some random 17 year old.
caleviwin yes
Fuck, man. What else is there to say?
Season three alert
Season four alert!
This is the most powerful one.
It's not just when then used "fuck", it's all the times they didn't. When they do,it sticks out more and it carries so much more weight because of it.
I will never get over the constrast in bojacks and pennys responses when she opens the door. The writers and voice actors are so goddamned amazing. Pennys "Mom!" Is the confused panic of a child. She sees her mom is mad and feels shes done wrong, but doesnt even know what or why. "We didnt even do anything!" She clearly knows SOMETHING is wrong, but is too niave to actially grasp it. Bojack however "Charlotte." Its a calm collected response, and already has built in remorse. His literal very first thought ANYTIME he gets caught is "oh shit how do i cover my ass"
I like Charlotte she is a real good mom to Penny by threatening the man who would've had his way with her if Charlotte hadn't found them in his boathouse about to do it
When it comes to swear words, less is absolutely more. It’s so chilling hearing herb telling Bojack to “get the fuck outta my house” because he seems like such a positive happy guy.
The end of season 2 destroyed me, I feel so much empathy for Bojack because I know whats like to dont know how to be happy and live with that everyday, pushing your love ones away... but Bojack destroying his friendship with perhaps the only girl that really understands him was too hard to watch, he almost did something so wrong! I never expected to see something like this on an animated show, I will eagerly wait for season 3 to come.
omg now it's the end of the show
I will never emotionally recover from the ending of the show
So. Did you watch the whole thing?
need a update
bojack doesn't deserve sympathy
Diane: "Motherf..."
Diane: "...ucker!
I laughed so hard with that 😂
I just started watching BoJack and always though beforehand that he was just a good guy who made terrible mistakes and choices, which might still be true (not done watching it). But when I started watching it, I just saw how terrible of a person (or horse) he is. Most of the time I can’t even find a hint of sympathy to give him because he only thought of himself when he made choices, even when it was supposed to be for the benefit of someone else. And knowing there’s more coming (and seeing the Charlotte thing, which I haven’t gotten to yet) I see he’s probably going to do worse.
These are what TV Tropes calls “precision F-strikes,” where F-bombs are used sparingly and are all the more effective for it.
Bojack ruins lives and friendships. God forbid he ever ends up in Equestria...
Bojack will be the final season villain.
@@Beerbottles123 not exactly, because it's true that he damaged himself and others but he never found some normal friend who understood him until the end when he already had rehabbed by his actions not by the someone else advice.
Discord betrayed ponieś to Tirek and was forgiven.
Sunset Shimmer was a total B-word but was forgiven. She's darn lucky these "humans" are ponieś at heart.
On our Earth she would end up dead.
Starlight Glimmer turned mane 5 into drones doing her bidding in post-redemption season and was forgiven.
Bojack would do fine in Ecquestria.
AHAHAHAHAHAH I'm dying
ipo New idea for an Isekai series: In Another World As A Washed Up Horseman Hero.
These were the moments when i thought "huh, so you can make an awful-personality character for a protagonist and make it work" i love this show, i love how you dont need to like bojack, i like that, these are human characters, you can like them and dislike them, there is no real villain
I mean, in this show we see that's he's awful but doesn't want to be. He messed up badly in his life, basically wasting 30 years doing nothing and cannot get his sh together, but he both realises it and doesn't want that (but doesn't do anything with it). I think many people can actually see themselves in this character.
Just finished season 2. Damn, this shit was so painful to watch. I didn't think they could top the emotional weight of season one, but I think they did. :(
Dr. Jackal with season 2 when Bojack meets Charlotte aging and in the end he destroyed Charlotte friendship with Herb and knowing Herb was right about him and leaving him Sad and Ashamed of him self
+Dr. Jackal I loved how both seasons place their most emotional heavy episode one right before the finale.
don't forget that major fight with Mr. Peanutbutter too. they worked through some serious issues there too.
I know this is an old comment, but what did you think of season 3's ending
Zach B. Too much man...
He lost his two best friends because of himself. I don't know he does it, he just automatically fuck up all of his relationahips. Toddler at one point, Wanda etc.
+Jack Norman Eh, I think he kinda saved his friendship with Todd until his next major fuckup. He lost Herb a long time ago and wasn't such a close friend to Charlotte to begin with.
Can't disagree on Wanda tho... makes you kinda lose hope for him.
Platurt yeah season 3 ruined todds relationship and it was way more heartbreaking than charlotte or herb
Sarah Ashlan I know...
fuck
yup
It’s like what that therapy horse form rehab said to him about how he pushes away all the people that are closest to him or something along those lines
The amount of creeps defending Bojack because of his pity attempts at rejecting her is sickening.
"hE sAiD nO"
"Ah jeez man, guess since he said "no" he is absolutely clear of nearly fucking a 17 y/o being a *50 y/o* himself I didn't know people could do that man if only Pedos were this smart they wouldn't be in jail am I rite?"
Now listen, Im against the whole "below 18 means dumb as bricks" argument, rationality is never to come at X age for biology (at least some of the times), let alone legal terms, but if you are a grown ass adult you should know when to draw the line *for real* rather than being the "victim".
It would be understandable if you were like, overpowered somehow but being psychologically incapable of putting a 17 y/o back to her place or even discipline her? You must be either a mastermind of playing victim or the weakest adult ever.
You can argue that Bojack "had no time", but he clearly did have a dead line to obey himself and yet ignored it, letting the situation draw further in depth to a point he was cornered unwillingly.
Its like entering an alley known for being full of aggressive stabbers knowing that info and later be surprised because you got stabbed.
You knew what you were doing yet you didn't stop, that's on your fault.
I just read a comment that said it's 'unrealistic' that this moment scarred Penny for life because in real life penny would resent her mother for interrupting 🤦♀️
Just because that's how teens are portrayed in sitcoms doesn't mean that's how they act. And even if she _didn't_ think it was such a big deal in that moment, she would have eventually realised that she almost helped slept with a man in his 50s that left her friends in ER and didn't give a fuck.
I'm just becoming more and more sure that if Pedophilia wasn't illegal 70% of the world's population would have absolutely no problem with it.
I mean, it was mentioned in this episode, that in that state age of consent was 17 or higher. In some countries it's even lower - Poland has 15, for example (but with culture expecting teenagers to act like adults. For example, when you're 17 in Poland and you comit a felony, you're charged as an adult).
Thanks for being a decent person :)
@@Admiral45-10 bro literally shut up 😭 that doesn’t mean shit
i honestly never noticed that the word fuck was used so sparsely. thats a really interesting move utilizing it so sparingly to make important scenes give you an extra hard punch in the gut
A huge problem with adult animation I have is the overuse of the Fbomb, saying it over and over kind of takes the harshness out of the word. Bojack is the only show I know to use it only once every season, it makes every scene it's in so much more important.
The scene where Charlotte used “the f-word” really made me shudder when I first saw it! Judging from the comments, I wasn’t the only one. This is a great example of how well-written this show is
Totally ( 0 _ 0 ) I believe Charlotte was restraining herself from hurting/killing Bojack in that scene; just the use of that f-word from her made me shook to the very core.
It literally made me misremember her dialogue and thought she said "If you don't leave within 30 minutes, I'm going to fucking kill you"
This show is so depressing. It's so real in exaggerated way.
Right!!! I finished watching it maybe 2 months back & I have no idea why they made it so deep, it seriously downed my mood. Especially the last few episodes. I wish they would've kept in some serious elements (like Princess Carolyn's baby situation) but toned it down on BoJack's entire life.
@@clalyrics441 eh I liked the idea. Other adult animated shows that I've watch tend to have no meaning until the last episodes. Bojack horseman was always so deep and depressing at times. It brought you back to reality by showing a events of a troubled man.
I couldn't finish it. I am a very empathetic person and it hurt me to watch that self-sabotage, and the depressing situations that came to him. :(
My favorite episode was "Fish out of Water" is kinda sum up the whole series. Reality suck, there's no happy ending in real life.
I liked it for that reason. Any show can make a love story where everything ends up back to normal in the end, but Bojack really shows reality isn't like that. Hit harder then any other show has.
I always felt I related most to the daughter in this scene, thinking I knew what I wanted and that by acting like I was the one who initiated contact with these older men that it was ok when they met me, I was 15 when I had my first proper hook up with someone much older then me and they were a primary school teacher and I never saw a problem with it until I reflected on this scene, so sad that some people don’t get that bojack is 100% in the wrong for this as it shows how society places more blame on the victim then the perpetrator. You should really be careful of which adults you put your faith in as your blind trust in them may be how they are able to manipulate you.
Well, these were pretty deep scenes of Bojack Horseman that felt surreal, yet VERY effective on the delivery of the word, "Fuck".
Scott Pilgrim 🤝 Bojack Horsemen
You know what I'm talking about
Being pedos?
Gosh, those scenes were really something. That whole night I lost a lot of hope that Bojack could ever be happy. Getting teens drunk, not taking accountability for it, and then accepting Penny's advances. I can totally see why Penny developed the trauma she did.
I want to believe that Bojack would have stopped, but no one will ever know, not even Bojack.
Fuck...
Indeed. Penny was an inexperienced 17 year old and Bojack is much MUCH older than her. It was incredibly fucked up of him to do that. She trusted him and he took advantage of her.
I want Vincent Adultman to have season four's fuck
I don't know, he didn't have that much of a deep and important relationship with Bojack, loose casual acquaintances at best.
Personally, I'm betting more on Mr. Peanutbutter or Diane (if it turns out to be the latter, I suspect it's gonna be particularly nasty and painful), as Princess Carolyn's relations with Bojack loosened and improved a bit after she stopped working for him and there's less co-dependency at play.
I hope it won't be his daughter, as one season is a bit little time to really get to know her, especially with all the simmering crises going on around the plot (Mr. Peanutbutter becoming governor, possible shenanigans with his ex-wife, Diane having to choose between loyalty to the new employer vs. loyalty to her husband, Ethan Around, possible drama at Princess Carolyn's job or with her boyfriend, heck, even Uncle Frankie trying to get revenge, possibilities are endless). It would be really a shame to just see a bit of her for a few scenes and then have her cut off all the possible budding relationship she could have had with Bojack.
Coming back to the possibility of Diane or Mr. Peanutbutter being the one to drop the "fuck" of the next season, I think it might have to do with Bojack being involved in the drama likely to ensue between the two of them, due to the conflict of interest between Cabracadabra and Girl Khrush. In case it's gonna be Mr. Peanutbutter, I think Bojack's grudge about the Oscars might get addressed one more time; Bojack isn't one likely to get over a wrongdoing like that easily.
What would be a shame, would be seeing Kelsey be the one to cut off ties with Bojack. They have such a great chemistry and I would love to see more involving both of them (as friends and co-workers, obviously), but the way things look like right now, things are likely to spiral downwards between them.
I think it's going to be BoJack's mom since she is going to be in Season 4. I think she is going to say to BoJack on her death bed "You were always a fucking disappointment" or "I never fucking loved you"
Zapp Brannigan that would have been cool. But your way off
ComicWriter 2020 Yeah I know now, the way they used it in season 4 was really unique and cool
LET! VINCENT! SAY! F̶U̶C̶K̶! HECK!
To those of you out there saying it's okay to have sex with a minor, please comment so I can put you on a watch list and make sure you aren't in my neighborhood ready to groom children. Thanks.
What’s even WORSE is realizing that Bojack used Penny as a REBOUND 🥶🥶🥶
That’s the really messed up part of the situation everyone ignores. It’s bad enough that Penny’s 17, barely the age of consent, and even worse that she’s the daughter of a friend of BoJack’s. But the fact that he only accepts her advances after Charlotte rejects him is just… a whole other level of exploitation.
@@helenaperez4343 or you could see it as fact that he was hurting and just looking for a moment of escape. He didn't try to go for penny. He just said fuck it. We'll get drunk and party. Then when in that half drunk state. She comes on to him. Yes he should have said no. But it was stuck in a no win scenario. He hurts her feelings either way. But in one he isn't seen as the villain.
As if her mom didn't show up. It would have been a crappy fuck. That penny would have regretted. And most likely avoid bo after. Bo would have feel uncomfortable and left. Since her mom killed any dreams he has with her. And to avoid penny. They would have been in the same point. But he would have feel good for that few moments. Which is what he always picked. To avoid the pain. He is a victim. But one of his own making.
@@zid9611So basically, a weak basic excuse of a "man"
Olivia Wilde delivered that line so well
When Bojack makes horrible decisions, he always has a scene where he's denying it and somehow convincing himself (and others) that he's not in the wrong.
But whenever he remembers New Mexico, he freezes and snaps back to reality
When he was on a drug trip with Sarah Lynn, he's "apologizing" to the people he wronged but he wasn't really apologizing, he was just trying to make himself feel better. But the moment he woke up in New Mexico, he was almost having a panic attack just hearing Sarah Lynn say it.
Then when Charlotte called him and said that he's gonna get interviewed about New Mexico, Bojack literally fainted
To all the people defending Bojack, even he knew he fucked up and did something unredeemable. I usually am not one to fight with people who ship characters who have like a 5 year age gap because it is big, there have been bigger and it doesn't always mean there's grooming being done.
But Bojack was OVER 50. Penny had zero experience in any intimacy and Bojack had over 30 years of it. I'm almost 19 with no experience and I'd feel weird doing it with someone who's25 even if I find them extremely attractive
I can't help but to think two things
A: Bojack gonna get shot by the end of season 4
Or
B: He actually redeem himself
let's face it man, I don't think he's capable of redeeming himself
He's propably going to geeet roooit into the nooose
I'm sorry ._.
Yeah he actually does become redeemable
Anthony McMahan thank god the latter happened
BoJack did an amazing job with portraying mental health and the effects it has on the people around you. Honestly, I’m mad at myself that I didn’t watch this until now
0:42 giving him 30 minutes? Nah, give him 30 SECONDS.
The fact that Bojack even let Penny intohis boat at all had me so dissapointed in him
I like how the best one was hollyhocks letter
The ‘F’ was so good no words were even spoken to know what it meant
Like the way this show explains life-you never really learn from your mistakes, you just keep repeating them endlessly until you you have nothing left. People don’t change, they either get worse or hide their flaws
30 minutes is quite generous, I would have given him like... 30 seconds at most. That's assuming all the same personal history.
It takes more than 30 seconds to tow a boat
If I was in that situation pieces of Bojack would be staining the walls, personal history or not.
Every time I see this scene I hope in the pit of my stomach that he’s still rebuffing penny, And every time I have to pause with her about to undress the strange man that crashed into her family’s life. And the way he describes that night like he was helpless to refuse. It was shot so perfectly, giving just enough information to inform his action but cast doubt if he really was gonna go through with it. And I love Pete repeats retelling of that night. It’s frames this whole scene so darkly, like perhaps Bo Jack was intentionally grooming penny, a younger version of her mom, who’s easily manipulated, similar to princess Caroline, a young woman he might have also groomed into a relationship.
Season 2's F bomb was the hardest scene in television I've ever had to watch.
Yes it was, hell yea it was
fun fact: the “fuck” word has only been used 6 times in total in the whole bojack horseman show. 1 per season.
It creeps me out to know what BoJack was ready to do to Penny if not for Charlotte. God... me and Penny were born in the same year. I can't imagine a 50+ year old woman coming on to me the way BoJack did to her.
Hazbin hotel writers, please take notes
You forget when Todd tells Bojack off...that was brutal
They didn't forget, this video was after Season 2, before Season 3.
That hit me man. I was going through a very shitty time and was rejected by a girl cuz it was all in my head. Had ADHD afterwards, always a bad time and could relate to Bojack so much. Besides the almost underage nonsense scene, just his depression really hit me hard.
This video is 7 years ago bruh
Season 3 wasn't made yet
There's also a really powerful moment with the f-word. It was a conversation with Todd talking about how Bojack keeps blaming his bad behavior on everyone, but in the end, he said 'fuck, man...', like if what he just said was worthless because he thought Bojack couldn't change. That scene almost destroyed me.
This show and breaking bad both had the characters swear a lot, but they reserved the f word only for scenes where characters ended relationships between each other
Man I miss talking about this show with my math class and teacher when I was in high school. This show had no right to be as good as it was. In the end Bojack got what he deserved even though we know he’s gotten better that doesn’t excuse the sins of his past and he has to live with that.
The use of “fuck” in BoJack Horseman is great. You see a lot in this show, but characters don’t use “fuck” in everyday speech. Sure, they say shit, bitch, asshole, but man...when they go off and tensions climax, a “fuck” takes this climaxed tension and breaks it. In doing so it breaks your mind and heart. Something is drastically different.
Obviously this is an older clip so they're not included here, but in the newer seasons we also get f-bombs from Gina and Todd, both directed at Bojack. This show's usage of the f-bomb is insanely well thought out, as it is never used explicitly unless there's a major breakdown in a relationship.
I sometimes sympathize with Bojack, but then I remember the yacht scene and all that sympathy leaves my body.
Age of consent is TECHNICALLY applicable but it can’t be denied bojack made predatory choices. It’s like getting with someone who JUST turned 18 when you’re 40. Yeah technically it’s not illegal, but you cannot deny that you had to jump through a few moral hoops to think it’s ok
I was genuinely proud of Bojack for originally rejecting Penny
They had us on the firts half
The performance of Charlotte’s VA is absolutely fantastic. It sounds real and raw.
s6 when everything began to unravel was harder to watch. Knowing the whole world was going to find out about this
I saw a comment that said the word fuck symbolizes the end of each of bojack's relationships
This show is so great, it's not what most of the people think it is.
... Fuck, man. What else is there to say?
Todd uses "fuck" when he chews out Bojack for trying to stop Diane and Mister Peanut Butter's wedding.
My absolute favourite nettlix show and the one that taught me so much
Dude, it’s almost like he can’t keep doing these shitty things, and then feel bad about himself. It’s like he has to be better.
So without having seen this show, is Bojack a monster? From like the three clips i've seen he seems like a night mare
I mean, kinda. He's a real shitty guy and thats the point.
Not "monster" as in he's evil or has any true maliciousness in his heart but he is a pretty shitty person yes
I hate having to see moments like this on tv, not because they are painful (though they are) but because they are real
I wish I seen this as a child instead of Disney
The use of the word "fuck" in this series was so good. I'm not one who's like "cursing is so unnecessary, makes you sound dumb!" But if it's used excessively then it begins to lose meaning and you eventually get desensitized to it. I think that using it so rarely and in heavy moments like these really helps pack a harder punch, and if it was used more frequently then it wouldn't have had the same effect.
bc he's a cortoon horse, I didn't even realize how old bojack was until I looked it up and it changed so much since I thought he was around 30
or Todd's "fuck man, what else is there to say?" when he tells bojack to quit using excuses and be better
You know what makes these words more powerful? Is that both the characters who say it are obviously less "powerful" than BoJack in some shape or form.
Having them say the world so justifiably puts BoJack in a place non of the privileges he has or had could take him out: The fact that he's lonely by his own fault...
I strongly agree with the philosophy of using strong words as sparingly as possible, a guy I used to work with put it like this "I don't curse because I don't want to words to lose their impact, that's why if I curse, you know something is very wrong"
Also, on another note, we actually have a main protagonist of a series that was willing to submit to the whims of a child for sexual pleasure, the significance of that is astonishing, all too often protagonists are made to be paragons of good or always right in one way or another, always having a good reason for things and on the flip side, a lot of protagonists with flaws or make mistakes, don't have such severe flaws, such as being clumsy or dishonest at times, we don't have protagonists with practically irredeemable flaws, like racism or pedophilia, because it's so touchy and people are predisposed to believe that someone with those flaws is evil no matter what and that they are either incapable of doing good deeds or that any good deeds they have done no longer matter and going on to mistakes it's much the same, mistakes and evil actions are also either avoided or trivialized, never given a huge repercussion on the character, a person who mercilessly rapes and murders a family of 5 is irredeemable under any circumstances to almost anyone, regardless if they repent for 40 years, or donate every belonging and wealth to charity, or save countless lives directly because of their intervention, those acts or heroism are overwritten and/or ignored by most.
So, seeing Bojack (the main protagonist of his series) do something unforgivable by many, is refreshing and honest in a way.
ALL PEOPLE have shitty flaws and are fully capable of performing horrible acts, whether that's because of a momentary lapse of judgement, whether from influence of substances or emotional trauma is rarely relevant or justifiable to most.
I believe all characters should have horrible, honest, ugly, flaws.
Meanwhile how Helluva Boss treats the f-word like every character in the show has Tourette’s syndrome
The Penny thing was the only thing Bojack did that I found to be unredeemable, but as the series progressed and he grew it about killed me when it came back on him.
that’s the only thing?
Something in me wants Bojack himself to drop the f-bomb at some point in the show, either to reject his flaws and improve or just... reject himself altogether. Knowing the nature of the show, it's impossible to know what is going to happen. Guess we'll just have to wait until Season 4.
I was thinking this as well. Maybe he could find a way to say "fuck" to himself to signify he's cutting ties with his old self and he would actually be good from then on.
I think he should say it to his mother.
I think he should say it right before he kills himself in the series finale
Well, we got a Bojack F bomb.
God damn you're good!
This is what most “adult” cartoons should strive to be. Instead of using the word “fuck” in every sentence, only use it in serious moments, just like what Bojack does. The impact hits much harder
Siempre crei que Bojack queria acostarse con Penny porque queria hacer daño a Charlotte, ya sea consiente o inconsientemente, y si, es tan cruel y despiadado que es una posibilidad fatible
The word fuck is used once a season, and it signifies a relationship that Bojack has ruined, a bridge he burns.
In the scene prior, Bojack verbally rejects Penny, but deliberately leaves the door open as if to invite her to make the decision herself.
I always thought to myself “Dammit BoJack”
and the episode was so funny earlier when he did that 'Do The Bojack" dance at the prom
+Suggie Thames the writers get you with that, at first it seems a happy episode, then they *presuambly* peak the attention in the episode ( that girl who got to drunk) so you think its downhill from here, then there blows a nuke like that, it is a Powerful tool to use, but you can only pull it of 4-5 times
They only used the word “fuck” about once per season to show a pivotal moment in the series and these were just the epitamy of souls crushing pivotal moments. The second I saw BoJack and penny doing that I lost my liking for him as a character. But his growth beyond this moment and eventual realization and coming to terms with himself is really what keeps you around to see what happens.
I was so proud of BoJack for once having standards, with Penny and Charlotte.
Fast forward 5 minutes later, I'm screaming at the TV Screen- 'Bojack, no, don't do it, BOJACK NO DON'T'
I read the title as “The Powder of Words”
I thought y’all should know.
You funny.
Both of these scenes hurt, because we had to watch him lose two of the most impoetant people in his life no lie
I remember getting so mad at the scene with penny. Bojack not being quick to stop her and being uncomfortable but still not stopping it, we not knowing if he would go with it and then also with penny. Like girl what you doing?!🤦♀️
What makes it worse was that he genuinely rejected her, but LEFT THE DOOR OPEN.
Why? So he won’t feel guilty if she does enter and try again, because that’s when he’ll think that it’s her fault and not his. Him leaving the door open is his way of saying “I don’t want to feel bad about it so I’ll shift the blame to her while I enjoy it.”
No one ever told bojack one of the biggest responsibilities of being an adult is to not take the advances of a child seriously
I come back to this video every so often just to hear this because it's so powerful.