One thing to remember is good room ventilation during the descale. When you flush the steam boiler, it releases the descaler as a steam, too, so you inhale it. And that Dezcal can cause some headaches and weird patterns appearing in your eyes. So ventilate well, and if you feel weird, go outside for a fresh air.
I always use this video to descale the coffee machine. It was a bit scary at first but with practice I do it every 2 months. It's Not a chore any more as I have the confidence to do it.tha ks to you and the miracle of youtube😅
I have loved espresso for years but was intimidated by the process of pulling good shots etc. But you guys helped ease me through it all. From research to purchase to technique and now cleaning. On behalf of all us coffee bean junkies thanks so much!
Thank you so much for the complete info! I have a Rocket Chellini that was always told to not descale. Now I understand that is for the double boiler machines and not HX. I followed your directions here and my Chellini is back to full operation with no weird sounds and short cycling on pressure stat. I will not go anywhere for products or support if even found cheaper. You guys rock!
Great video. I followed the instructions exactly and it worked perfectly on my 18 month old Rocket Appartmento. I did clean the E61 group head as shown on another of your videos prior to this flush. The machine now works like new. Thank you!!!
Wish I'd watched this BEFORE i descaled my 8 month old (and never descaled) Nuova Simonelli Musica (there is not tech where I live in Argentina). I had green blue stuff coming out for days and clogged valves for weeks. Thank you for the instructional video. Here's to NOT blowing up our machine ;-)
just did this on a pro 500 and the water was pretty clean but it had tons of tiny specs of scale in it. used urnex dezcal powder. 100g to 1/2 gallon of water. had the machine well over a year and don't think I had done this properly before. working good as new and I will now chemically clean the group head and then lubricate the e-61 lever mechanism. thanks again for posting this.
Hey Matthew, Thanks for the comment and that sounds like a good plan. To help you out here's a couple videos: Espresso Machine E61 Brew Group Maintenance and Rebuild: ruclips.net/video/ELIwD40tsrs/видео.html How to Backflush Your Espresso Machine: ruclips.net/video/5LEd0XoFVRg/видео.html Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage i have ran the pump via the brew lever and drained into a bowl from the group head and there are still tons of specks in the water. ran almost 2 clean gallons through it after descaling. is this normal? I am thinking there was a ton of scale in the brew (HX) boiler. water out of the hot water wand is very clear with nothing in it.... should I try descaling again?
Do you have this procedure in outline form. It would be easier for me to follow an outline or chart than going back and forth watching the video. It,s a great video but a chart would be easier to follow after reviewing the video,. I don't have to descale enough to get the steps naturally.
Hey B, Here you go: How to Descale HX Boiler To machine on and heat up to operational pressure. Once up to temperature turn it off. Then open the hot water valve. Steam pressure forces out liquid water in the boiler. Then operate the brew group lever to discharge water in the heat exchanger. When no more water flows, close the hot water valve and the brew group lever. Prepare the descaling solution according to the instructions. If using Urnez Dezcal or Full Circle descaler, mix the powder or liquid with 32 ounces of water. If using the powder type be sure to mix until completely dissolved. Add the descaling solution to water tank and turn the machine on. The pump fills the boiler with descaling solution. After the pump stops operate the brew group lever until liquid is discharged by the group. This fills the heat exchanger with the descaling solution. Place the portafilter with the blind filter inserted into the brew group and lock in place. Now operate the brew group lever 3 times, leaving it in the run position for 20 seconds each time. Move the lever to the lower position after each operation. This process descales the expansion valve. Lett the descaler react in the boiler for 20 minutes. After that, release the remaining descaler by operating the brew group lever until the water tank is empty and no more liquid is dispensed. Switch off the machine, Remove the nozzle from the hot water dispenser and open the hot water valve. Steam pressure will push out any descaler left in the boiler. Remove the water tank, rinse and refill with fresh water. Replace the tank and turn the machine on. The boiler refills with the fresh water. When the pump stops operate the brew group lever three times for about 20 seconds each with the blind filter still in place. This rinses the expansion valve. Be sure to move the lever to the lower position after each operation. Remove the blind filter and operate the brew group lever for about 60 seconds in order to rinse the heat exchanger. To fully rinse the boiler, repeat the following procedure 3 to 5 times: Switch the machine off and operate the hot water valve to drain the boiler. Refill the water tank and turn the machine on. Allow the machine to come up to operating pressure. Then turn the machine off and open the hot water valve to drain. Again, repeat that process 3 to 5 times to fully rinse the boiler. When done you have completed the descaling procedure.
A couple of things: First, thanks to the WLL crew for posting this - if I didn't live about 10K miles away I would pop in and shake your hands (and buy something...). For those of you investigating cleaning options and reading the comments here you will see that there is some controversy on the issue of descaling. It might be a little more like a culture war actually. If you do enough research you will come across the position recommended here, and also the alternative, which is not to descale at home. This latter position is endorsed in one video by one machine manufacturer, but on the very specific basis that the machine is fitted with an in-tank filter (calcium remover/softener) of some kind (at the least). If you listen carefully to this video the WLL crew are careful to point out that a home attempt to descale a likely dirty machine could prove problematic. With that proviso - my three trusted authorities all recommend home descaling so that's the way I have gone. However I also use an in tank filter in addition to filtered water...this belt and braces approach allows me to descale less often and somehow that seems like the best and easiest of all possible worlds. Thanks again WLL crew.
Hi Tony, Thanks for the detailed comment - I would love to shake your hand! What I get from most manufacturers of prosumer level machines is: Use good water to prevent scale in the first place. Best not to attempt descaling dual boiler machines at home. It can be done, but you have to know what you are doing. In most cases it requires removing the boilers as they are not easy to drain in most machines. Also dual boiler machines have a lot of extra hydraulic components like solenoid valves which are trap points for bits of scale which can dislodge during descaling and plug things up - especially in machines which have been using untreated hard water. Marc
Thanks for your videos guys! It helped me clean my Bezzara BZ10 easily! Its now in my saved vids so I can come back to it each time I need to descale :)
Hi Jay, Thanks for the comment! Happy to help. Be sure and check out our support wiki for the Bezzera BZ10 here: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Bezzera_BZ10/diagrams_and_manuals The descaling and other videos are there as well as manuals and diagrams, use tips and more. Marc
Hi Mark! You know after rinsing the boiler still remain with solution in the pressure boiler because on that technique you can't empty the boiler properly and you'll finish to have a nasty taste on hot water and milk. I am a coffee engineer for more that 14 years and I don't recomand to do that to the pressure boiler. On the heat exchanger yes is working fine because you have a continuous flow
Great video. Can you add more description to the steps where you are letting hot water and steam run from the tap? I find with my Bezera BZ 13 it is hard to tell when it's finished expelling steam. Am I looking for no more steam to be expelled or just no more liquid?
the acid taste of the descaling product is very persistent and not easy to get rid of. So you better use the filtered water instead. The descaling process will eventually destroy the heating element of the boiler . It happened to my QuickMill Andreja. Learn from my mistakes - I had to spend a lot of money sending the machine to the service center for repair and they told me that they had to disassemble the whole machine in order to descale it properly. Even after the backflashing process with blind portafilter and descaling chemicals , some elements in E61 group should be lubricated to prevent the wear of the lever mechanism...
i've found on my profitec 700 that, in addition to the 3-5x end process, i typically need to flush the grouphead for another 4-5 minutes to get the salt taste out of the water, backflushing every ~60 seconds
Hi kk, We generally recommend end home users do not descale dual boiler machines. As you've found it's difficult to fully flush out descaling acids. Especially the steam boiler. It has open headspace. When descaler is introduced to the steam boiler it can foam up into the headspace. When running water through the steam boiler it never fills the boiler entirely so foam is left in headspace. Best practice is to filter/treat source water to prevent scale from forming in the first place. BWT Water & More has filters using ion-exchange available for plumbed and reservoir fed machines. Their filters exchange calcium in source water for magnesium. They also remove chlorination using activated carbon. The result is chlorine free water with a mineral level needed for flavor and corrosion protection that when used as directed will not cause scale formation in the machine. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage we have always used distilled store bought water for it, is this an acceptable practical alternative to eliminate the need for descaling? I understand that the use of distilled water is considered to negatively affect the taste of the espresso, but to us it tastes awesome and have zero complaints. Can we just stick with distilled and stop the 6 moth descales?
@@dr_flunks If it tastes good to you that's what matters! You'll get no scale using water with zero mineral content. But, be aware there is a risk of corrosion of metals if using pure distilled water. Pure distilled and reverse osmosis waters are such a good solvents they pull ions from metals causing corrosion. You may not see issues right away but down the road it could cause trouble. What's your tap water like? If good quality and on the softer side with ppm of
@@dr_flunks distilled water alone is a recipe for disaster down the road. Your machine may corrode from the inside. You should search for R Pavlis water recipe, it's simple and safe for the machine, also eliminates need for descaling.
Whole Latte Love I am a service tech and I have to say that I love this video since is gonna break so many machines, that means more work for me! Descaling must be done by professionals and you know it. I had more than one customer coming at the shop with the machine wrecked after they followed this video. You're not able to properly rinse ALL the descaling solution without using tools and without knowing what you're doing. But it's ok, keep up the good job in helping final users to wreck their machines and thank you to provide us work. Peace
Hi Luca, I'm going to disagree for the most part. I'll agree to some extent in the case of dual boiler machines. We recommend home users have dual boiler machines descaled by a professional technician. Some users do insist on descaling their own DB machines. With enough knowledge and skill it is possible for home users to descale DB machines. I'll add that manufacturers of many single boiler machines semi-auto machines and all manufacturers of super-automatic machines provide descaling instructions for home users in product manuals. FYI we run a service dept and work on 1000's of machines per year. Biggest problem we run into is users neglecting descaling for long periods. Then they descale and scale particles can clog other components in their machine. For single boiler and HX machines home users can descale so long as they stay on schedule. It's very easy to fully rinse single boiler and HX machines. In cases where descaling maintenance has been neglected I'd recommend home users have their machine professionally serviced. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage you disagree and I disagree as well with your point of view, the only useful thing a customer can do to prevent scale build up is to use filtered water or at least use a scale inhibitor. Descaling must be done by professionals, but like I said, this video will keep us techs busy so thank you again
@@Wholelattelovepage automatic machines are a completely different thing and it's ok to descale em since the majority of the manufacturers use flash boilers for the steam.
Hi P, thanks for the suggestion! I anticipate updating this video at some point to include more recent products. In the meantime know the process is the same with newer products. At base level all products use an acid for descaling. Most common is citric acid. Use/mix according to product instructions and follow descaling procedure in this video.
Hello. I have a very old Rancilio Silvia V1 or V2. I got it as a gift and not able to check if the previous owners made descaling process and cleaned it up. The flavor of espresso isn’t good. I want to clean the brewing group first and then I think to descale the machine. But i don’t know - it’s old - maybe inside a boiler huge amount of scale and some parts can stuck inside the machine pipes or system? But machine was in NYC and here is very soft tap water like 37-38 TDS. Really appreciate your advice 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hey alex, Cleaning the group is a good first step. Coffee oils accumulated there can go rancid and impact flavor. As it's a very old machine I wonder if it's reaching a proper temperature? If it's not, espresso would likely be sour. There's always risk descaling a machine without details of previous maintenance. You're right, descaling may dislodge scale chunks and end up plugging things up. But if machine has always been fed very soft water heavy internal scale is unlikely. If you're handy with tools you could take a pipe off the boiler and look for signs of scale. Or if you descale and something plugs up you could take apart and clear. Solenoid valve is common area for issues. If it turns out the machine has huge amounts of scale simple descaling will not clear it out and machine will require a rebuild.
how can i descale if my hot water valve is plugged. I followed instructions on previous video and determined clog is not in the hot water wand or assembly and is further in the piping/boiler. For reference I have a Rocket Appartamento Serie Nera
Hi Justin, You will need to determine where the scale obstruction is and correct it. Basically continue working backwards from the wand to find the blockage. Here's a support article for the Appartamento which includes a video on tracing back hot water flow issues: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500008536862--Rocket-Espresso-Appartamento-Serie-Nera-Flow-Issues
HI Marc, is there any chance you can make a video of descaling the Bezzera BZ13 DE? In your video you show opening the water spout after turning the machine off and then opening the group head as well. With the BZ13 you can not open the group head unless the machine is turned on and then it is once again filling the boiler. I am using the BWT pitcher, but I figured it would be a good idea to descale once in a while to be safe. Also, in my previous comment when I open the water valve I only get 350 ml of water coming out. Is this normal for this machine?
So i did this in my rocket the only thing that threw me off was from the 20 seconds back flushing three times I noticed my pressure gauge go past green than i just open the steam valve to lower pressure
Hi, thank you for the video! Do you see any advantage in removing the probe so that you are able to fully fill the boiler with the solution? Also - did i missed it or were you only working on group and hot water side, but not with the steam side of the machine? How do you descale the steam arm? Thank you very much
Hi JF, You are welcome and thank you for your comment and question. For routine descaling moving the probe to have the boiler fill more is not required IMO. For someone without proper knowledge/skill it could lead to problems. In normal use no scale should occur in the steam arm. Steam coming through the arm is essentially distilled with little or no mineral content so no scale should accumulate there. Marc
Hi guys. Seeing this comment and response- why then couldn’t you use this routine to fill and descale the dual boilers of the 600? The 700 manual references routine preventative descaling but not the 600. I can’t see how this process would be any different, with the caveat that you need to try and fully empty the brew boiler before the pump fills it with descale solution.
Hi, Your online presence is what lead me to get my first machine, and now have upgraded to a Mini Vivaldi II S1, yet the machine I got was left a bit neglected. I wiped it down, but it is not getting much water flowing. I am wondering if this method would be the same on the Mini V2 S1 ?
Hi p, No it would not be the same. The machine you reference is a dual boiler. In a neglected machine there are many areas where limescale deposits may be slowing the flow. Might be issues beyond scale as well.
What can I do? Is there a repairer that deals with this make, so they can get parts? Thank you for reading your comments and replying!!@@Wholelattelovepage
Not looking forward to doing this lol Just cleaned the group head and took a lot of flushes before water was clear. Descaling looks like a whole other beast haha
Hi guys’! Amaing video. One question, would you recommend this process for a machine like Sanremo Capri, with rotary pump, flojet and a barel water intake? Or shouldnt I be trying this at home? thank you so much for any answer!
Hi Marc. Thanks for the helpful video. My question is just a point of clarification. In the video, you mix the descaling liquid with 32 oz of water as indicated on the packaging. Since the Profitec Pro 500 has a 2 liter boiler, do you add plain water to fill the boiler or mix multiple batches of descaler?
Hi George, Thanks for the question and my apologies for a delayed response. Was off the grid for holiday weekend. Although the internal volume of the boiler is about 2L you will not need a full 2 liters of solution as the boiler does not fill completely. If the machine takes in more than 32oz of descaler I would not dilute. I would mix more. Marc
I am missing an important piece of information in your presentation. When I pour the descaling solution (in 32 oz of water) to the water tank, is the water tank empty or should some water be in it? If so, how much. If I pour the 32 oz into an empty tank, it is not enough liquid in the tank and the orange light is not on. So, how much water does actually need to be in the tank (plus the 32 oz of the descaling solution)?
Hi Ursula, The water tank should be empty when you add the descaling solution. Your machine may require more than 32oz of solution depending on boiler size. On most machines if the orange light is out it means there's not enough water in the boiler and the machine is not heating. If you went through the first step in the video of initially draining the boiler of regular water then when you turn the machine on the orange light should be out until the boiler refills. The boiler should refill when you add the descaling solution to the tank and the tank sensor senses enough liquid in the tank. You will need enough descaling solution in the tank to fill the boiler plus some extra for the group flushing. Lacking your make/model info I do not know the size of your boiler. If the descaling solution in the tank drains to a tank out of water state while refilling the boiler you will need to add more descaling solution to the tank.
@@Wholelattelovepage I have the exact model of the coffee machine that you are doing your presentation on. The exact one, so I don't think the boilers on them vary in size. I have Profitec 500. The exact same machine you work on. So I would suggest that you add a clarification to the presentation. From what I am getting from your response I need to make more descaling solution. Before, I was just adding water but it did not seem right because it caused the potency of the solution to go down.
Hi Steve, Thanks for the question. Our advice has modified some over the years. The best course for any machine is to use water that does not cause scale in the first place. The trouble with boilers that produce steam (like HX boilers) is they never completely fill. There's always some headspace in the boiler and scale often forms at the spot where the water stops and headspace starts. Since they don't fill all the way it's difficult to descale that spot.
@@Wholelattelovepage hi thanks for the reply? I saw a video on that said if you disconnect the heating probe this would over fill the boiler while you do your descale, ? Steve
Since I got my ECM Synchronika, I've been back flushing with cafiza once per week (as shown in a previous Whole Latte Love video). I've only used Crystal Geyser by Roxane bottled water. Is what I'm doing correct, or do I need to be doing more for preventive maintenance?
Hi Alvin, Unfortunately I have no data on the mineral content of the water you are using. With the Synchronika (and all dual boilers) it's important to use a water that will not cause scale. You want some minerals in the water for flavor and to protect machine from corrosion but you need to reduce the calcium level to prevent scale. BWT Water & More filters use calcium to magnesium ion-exchange to get the right mineral level and no scale. BWT has options for plumbed in, reservoir feed or a filtering pitcher. Check those out here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/bwt For backflushing you may want to back off Cafiza frequency depending on how many extractions you do per week. We recommend backflushing with Cafiza every 120 brew cycles. Doing it more often will not hurt anything but will remove lubricant from internal group components causing squeaks. Also recommend plain water backflushing without detergent every couple of days. For additional info on your machines check out our support section for the Synchronika here: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/sections/1500000400302-ECM-Synchronika Lot's of maintenance, usage and DIY videos articles there. Marc
I just purchased a Rocket Mazzafiatto vibration pump model. Andrew Meo said NOT to descale this heat exchanger model as most people do not have the knowledge to properly descale this type of machine. He also stressed many do not properly flush the machines. Rocket states this will void your warranty and require expensive repairs in the long run. I live in Utah where the water is quite hard. I have a whole house water softener (sodium rinsed resin tank) and additionally use Pur water pitcher filtration for a Crossland CC1. I descale it with citric acid crystals about every 4 months. In the Crossland the solution stays in the machine over night then gets rinsed 4-5 tankfuls. Seems to work very well. What is one to do as I wish to protect my investment? I know vibration pumps can overheat if run too long (purging process) so care has to be taken to protect the pump. My espresso is as good as any of the coffee shops in Salt Lake, maybe even better. Make my own blends and roast my own every 4 days, but that is off the subject. I am feeling like Andrew is shortening the life of the machine so he can sell more product. I do not agree with that approach.
Hi Stephen, Thanks for the extensive comments and questions. I think Andrew is protecting a bit as one can cause problems if a machine is not descaled at regular intervals. If a machine gets a lot of scale and is descaled it can cause scale particles to loosen up, not fully dissolve and clog internal components. If one is reasonably knowledgeable we feel it's fine to descale a heat exchange machine. Different story for dual boiler machines. Best way to prevent scale in the first place is proper water treatment to reduce mineral levels of source water. Sounds like you have a reasonable plan for doing that. In your situation I would test the water your using after softening and the Pur pitcher to get an idea if it's likely to cause scale. Here's a link to the Langelier Saturation Index (LSI) calculator You can plug in info from a water test to see if it's likely to cause scale: www.cleanwaterstore.com/technical/water-treatment-calculations/share-calculater/langlier.php and here's a video with details on LSI: ruclips.net/video/Iw6DEDeggtY/видео.html Additionaly, It's important to flush your boiler every now and again if you're only steaming and not taking hot water out for Americanos or similar over time the mineral level will increase in the boiler - even in well treated water. When steaming only no minerals come out in the steam. Citric acid is a fine choice for descaling. It's what is in products like Dezcal featured in the video but I'll say letting it sit overnight may be too long IMO. I'm with you on the quality of espresso in many shops - you have to find a good shop with knowledgeable baristas that care. Lucky in our area we have a number of independent micro-roasters who are espresso oriented and know what they are doing. Also plenty of disappointing places with excellent equipment but don't have educated staff to operate.
Hello ,I had a problem with my saeco aroma nero use dezcal to disqualify it but after emptying the tank with the product and proceed to rinse when I do a shot of water from the head this after a few seconds throws a white cloudy water but after a while it becomes transparent, I hope you can help me, thank you.
I have heard that it is not recommended to descale the Rocket Appartamento, or their other machines. I have heard they prefer to have customers sned in their machine for a professional descaling about every year or so. Is this true? I mean, your video seems pretty legit and seems like it would work just as well. Or does Rocket just say this as a money scheme to get more money for labor and machine assessments?
Hi Kaleb, Thanks for the question. As far as I know Rocket does little if any maintenance for their domestic products like the Appartamento. They sell machines all over the world. Located outside of Milan it's not realistic for end users to send machines there for service. One might think they include the professional recommendation to support their dealer service departments. We do service here and I don't believe we've ever had an Appartamento in for descaling. If an end user has proper skills and knowledge then okay to descale.
Hi JS, I've done it both ways with no problems. But you are correct. This in an older video. More recently we've gone to turning the machine off during the 20 minutes. You will need to heat the machine back up again to expel water/descaler from the steam generating section of the boiler.
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks. I did the procedure yesterday, i ran 5 time with fresh water the boilers. But still have a salty after taste my coffee, something that pre decal was not present.
Hi E, Manufacturers in most cases recommend against end users descaling their espresso machines. It's not that it can't be done but can cause problems if done incorrectly. The best course is to filter water to lower the calcium content so scale does not form in the first place.
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi thank you for such a rapid response, your customer service is fantastic. Yes, I do filter my water but I was just thinking it may be good to just descale as part of an annual maintenance process. I will take your comments on board and perhaps just do a backflush using some cleaning powder or liquid.
how should I continuously decalcify according to the manufacturer's instructions if Bezzera advises against it? You say that if the water is below 14°F, I only have to decalcify after many years... ? And if everything is removed and reinstalled for external decalcification...Please also show an external decalcification of the Bezzera BZ 10 ... I'm unsure now :-(
Hi CK, Thanks for the question. Most all manufacturers advise against descaling prosumer level machines. This because if one decalcifies a neglected machine it can cause problems with chunks of scale dislodging in one area and plugging another. Then they call the manufacturer and complain. Machines with heat exchange boilers have less complex hydraulic systems than dual boiler machines so not nearly as risky for a home user to descale. The best course is to continuously prevent scale in the first place by filtering to reduce calcium while retaining a mineral level needed for taste and to prevent corrosion of metals. BWT has products like this for that purpose: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter Unless you know your machine has seen hard water for a long time without descaling or is showing symptoms of scaling it's relatively low risk to descale.
This descales the entire boiler which might not be necessary and can be work the vibration pump too hard. It will be good if there's instruction on just descaling the grouphead and heat exchanger.
Hi WLL, I did this on my BZ10 and I noticed the water from the hot water tap is still slightly sour tasting (from the group it's fine). Any suggestions on that? Just keep repeating the clear water flush until it's back to normal?
Great tutorial, thank you! Btw, there is also a recommendation to lift the water level sensor in the tank a bit, in order to let the descaling agent fill the tank slightly beyond the normal waterline. - What would you say?
Hi e, you are welcome and thank you for comment and question. Yes that can be done. Just carefully raise the boiler's water level sensor a half inch and descaling agent will cover the normal waterline in the boiler. Don't forget to push it back down when done! I don't think it's all that necessary as waterline level usually does not get scale - in use, as water level drops it's mostly mineral free steam making contact with boiler walls in that area.
Hey r, If the pump is running and not moving water through the machine and you know it's way overdue for descaling it sounds like there may be a complete blockage caused by scale somewhere in the machine. In that case it's disassemble components working your way through machine from water reservoir to group to locate the blockage(s). Sometimes a pipe or other component can be removed and descaled. Other times blockage is so severe component will need to be replaced.
Hi Chris, Actually it's not the same. In fact we do not recommend end users descale dual boiler machines. We recommend dual boiler machines be descaled professionally. Here's our wiki page with loads of information in regards to the Pro 700 including links to a bunch of useful videos specif to the Pro 700: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Profitec_Pro_700 Descaling maintenance can be eliminated by using proper water filtration. It's especially easy on a plumbed machine with a filter system like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package
Hi T, Thanks for the question. Yes but manufacturers recommend against end users descaling dual boiler machines. It's difficult to fully rinse the steam boiler. In our repair facility dual boiler machines have the boilers removed for descaling. The best thing to do is prevent scale in the first place. We recommend calcium to magnesium ion-exchange treatment from BWT Water & More. They have drop in reservoir pad filters: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter or the Penquin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher
Hi Wilson, We do not recommend home users descale dual boiler machines. Best to have it done by a professional technician. Reason, there's a risk of plugging internal components with loosened scale. It's best to prevent scale in the first place by filtering water with a system which replaces calcium with magnesium. This maintains a mineral level needed for good flavor and protection from corrosion without causing scale. Look to BWT Water & More filter options which use patented calcium to magnesium ion exchange. More info on their products in this video: ruclips.net/video/1C0GdOKxLj4/видео.html Marc
hey. thank you for this video. i have watched it and tried to descale it with single boiler machine ecm casa v.... Stupid me did backflush whilst descaling solution was already in boiler/running through grouphead brew action. i left for 20-30 mins for few times and now i get these crystals in the water no matter how many times i filtered the boiler and grouphead. any idea what i have done ? is this normal and takes more time or did i damage anything?
Hey Marc hope you are well, I know this video is old, but I wanted to descale my ecm tecnika and wanted to know if there is any danger to the boiler/machine itself descaling it like in your videos. I'm getting all dorts of advice and I would appreciate yours on this matter. Plus is a ecological cleaner any good? Thanks in advance!
Hi Marc, ok, I did heat the machine to 198. I turned it off and opened the water valve. Only 350ml came out. Since this has a 1.5 liter boiler it is leaving a lot of water behind, or it is not filling the boiler up. I did notice when I first got the machine and did the first run, it did not take that much water out of the plastic water container. Thoughts?
Is it normal to have cyan bluish water after leaving descale water in boiler for about 20 minutes ? I rarely descale my HX machine since i used BWT filter jug. Please help. Thanks
Hi Allison, Yes. But, do be aware there is risk involved if the machine is overdue for descaling especially if it's had a lot of use with hard (mineral rich) water. Chunks of scale can dislodge during descaling and plug up other areas of the machine.
I'm a new owner of a Profitec 500 PID purchased from WLL. WLL specs for the machine show Durgol Swiss Espresso Descaler as the descaler to be used. This descaler is not mentioned in this video. I'm confused. Is it OK to use the Durgol product? If so, how do you advise using the Durgol product? Are the products you show in the video better than the Durgol product? Thanks.
Hi Jack, Thanks for the question and congrats on your new machine! The Durgol is safe for any boiler material so it's a go to recommendation. If using Durgol mix 50/50 with water. Your Pro 500 has a stainless steel boiler so any of the Urnex products in this video are fine to use. Urnex Liquid Dezcal is a popular choice and used by many commercial cafes: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/cleaning-products/products/urnex-liquid-dezcal Dezcal may be slightly more effective. It's just a little more aggressive than the Durgol. Marc
Mark, I recently purchased the Bezzera BZ13 DE. I also purchased the BWT pitcher. Does this mean I will never have to descale my machine, or should I do it once in awhile to be safe?
Hey Tom, Thanks for the question. According to BWT scale should not form in a machine when their Penguin Pitcher is used as directed. This assumes your source water has no edge case issues and is safe for drinking from the tap. If you were using the machine prior to use of the pitcher then scale may have formed. If that's your case I would descale just to be sure. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc, on your descaling video, you turn the machine off and then drain water. On the BZ13 when you turn it off you can't drain the water. Do you have instructions for descaling the BZ 13?
@@tobiferris Hey Tom, With the machine fully heated, turn the power off. Open the hot water valve and the boiler will drain. Once drained, refill reservoir with descaling solution, turn the machine on and the boiler will refill. Turn on the brew switch and expel a few cups of water which is replaced by the descaling solution from the reservoir. After that the process is essentially the same as in the video except you are operating the brew switch instead of a brew lever.
@@Wholelattelovepage ok, I did heat the machine to 198. I turned it off and opened the water valve. Only 350ml came out. Since this has a 1.5 liter boiler it is leaving a lot of water behind, or it is not filling the boiler up. I did notice when I first got the machine and did the first run, it did not take that much water out of the plastic water container. Thoughts?
How do I descale a Livia G4 DE PID?Watching this video, there isn’t a brew group lever and the machine buttons won’t operate with the machine off as instructed. If you turn it on, it will refill the boiler. Thanks in advance.
CAN SOMEONE HELP ME? So I have ran a few cycles (brewing) after having done the initial one with the descaling liquid. However, after having it run a few times now with clean (and somewhat warm water) I notice that not much of the heavy calcium deposit has been removed from the bottom of the espresso water reservoir. Any tips? Should I start the descaling process with the liquid again?
Hi SC, Calcium deposits in the water reservoir may be an indication of some very hard (mineral laden) water. If you have scale there it's likely you have even more internally which is affecting your heating performance causing the "somewhat warm water" you describe. Without seeing the machine it's hard to say for sure but you may have so much internal scale that no amount of descaling will solve the problem.
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks so much for your response; I appreciate it! I dont know if this helps but I should had stated that: 1) I bought this all-in-one machine over 10 years ago-used it just a few times and didn't know about the descaling process and so...I never did it. I'm starting to think the calcium deposits are just too hard to remove at this point? I don't know if those deposits are toxic if it makes it into my coffee... 2) the frothing (nozzle) for as much cycles I did (descaled it at this point like 3 times then with clean water) there are orange particles that come out when I turn on the pressure button (I'm assuming it rusted) over the years so... My question now is: am I better off just investing in a new one? The coffee side works like new & have had coffee but then what's the point of keeping it if the cappuccino side and nozzle are throwing out those yucky particles out? I don't want that in my drink. Advice??
Hello Thanks for the helpful video. I recently purchased the Elba 3 from you guys. It does not have a hot water wand. How can I rinse the boiler on this machine? Should I lift the lever for the group head to run everytime you are turning on the wand? Thanks
Hi Max, There is a valve for draining the boiler underneath the machine. Lifting the lever runs water only through the brew water heat exchange section. It does not cause water to turn over in the steam producing section of the boiler.
I have BZ10 and after few months of usage the water is not clear from water tap while it's clear from grouphead. As I never use water tap, I think I don't need to descale!? As the water coming to grouphead is from the fresh water tank. I do backflush regularly however.
Hi MJ, Thanks for the question. My apologies for a delayed response - I was on vacation and offline for about ten days. The BZ10 uses a heat exchange boiler. In that setup the water heated for steam/hot water and water for brewing are always kept separate within the machine. Over time, water in the steam/hot water section of the boiler will concentrate minerals if you only do steaming and never take hot water from the boiler. This is because the steam does not carry minerals out of the boiler. Best practice for machines with HX boilers is to occasionally turn over the water in the boiler by using the hot water tap. This lowers the mineral concentration in the boiler by adding fresh water. In your shoes I would run a few liters through the hot water tap until the water runs clear and then descale the machine. If water was not running clear from the tap as you described it's likely the mineral level in the boiler was high and some scale has formed. Going forward it's a good idea to run a few cups of water through the hot water tap on a regular basis. Depending on usage level do this every couple of days. Marc
Hi SSH, Expobar machines go by different names in different countries. Here in the US an "Expobar Lever" is a machine with a heat exchange boiler and can be descaled by end user. If your Expobar is a dual boiler then descaling is best done by a professional. Marc
I've just tried this technique (p500) . However, after numerous rinsing (as per the end of the video), steam from the steam wand still smells of the descaler (everywhere else is fine). Is there a missing step?
Hi Michael, Hmm... That's odd! What descaler are you using? Most have no odor so curious as to what you are smelling. You can check for complete rinsing of descaler by putting some baking soda in water coming from your steam wand. If there's still descaler (acid) present you will get a reaction like those grade school volcanoes.
hi marc, i read in one of the comments descalers should not be used for stainless steel HX boilers like my ECM technika profi V (which i got from you). is this true? otherwise i shall be doing this every 90-100 days like you suggested
Hi x, no. ECM and most every espresso machine manufacturer recommends dual boiler machines be descaled (if needed) by a professional technician. Due to the complexity of their internal plumbing, there's a chance a piece of scale could dislodge during descaling in one part of the machine and plug another part. Best course of action is to prevent scale in dual boiler machines by properly treating water used in the machine. This means softening the water to reduce calcium. Typical sodium softening can work but is kinda old school. We prefer treating water with BWT Water & More products which use patented ion-exchange to replace calcium with magnesium. Their filters also remove chlorination from water. For a machine like the Pro 600 you could use their in-reservoir Bestave pad filters: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter or their Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher
Ok, thank you. I already have a water filter and use this. Is there a difference between the Bwt water filter jug and other brands? In the UK Brita is a very common filter brand.
I want to descale it because I've been using bottled water/filtered water to top up the water tank. Going forward, I may use a mix of distilled and filter water.
@@x7SiNz-- Hi, Brita may have some specialized filters I'm not aware of but those I'm familiar with (they're common here in the US as well) do nothing to reduce water hardness/calcium. They use activated carbon for chemicals like chlorine, etc. and particle filters.
Anyone else out there with the Profitec 500 that have the same issue as mine? I’ve been waiting to descale it again until I get further input about the pump turning off due to low water level since the 32 ounces of full circle descaled isn’t enough liquid for the boiler to fill properly and turns off my pump and heater.
Do you have a video or advice how to do this with a non-reservoir model? My Vetrano (by Quick Mill, also an E61 group head) is plumbed in on my countertop, and getting under the hood is a bit tedious since I have to disconnect the inlet/outlet fittings and move the machine to a work space. Thanks!
+CrushedAntz We run plumbed machines all the time by simply putting the water intake line into a jug of water. You could mix up your descale solution, put it in a jug and place the waterline in the jug.
Hi o, Seems like it would make sense. Problem is you want some minerals in the water. Pure distilled or RO water over time can cause corrosion of metal components in machines. That's why you never see mineral free water stored or transported in metal. Beyond that, mineral free water over-extracts coffee. One can avoid scale by properly treating water before use. Options included traditional sodium based softening solutions to reduce calcium or our preferred method using systems which exchange calcium in tap water with magnesium. Magnesium is a better flavor extractor than sodium. Check out options from BWT Water & More using this processs: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/bwt/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter
So basically back flash and cleaning the boiler is the same, and also I can do it with one cleaning product, right? I don't have to use two products for back flash and one for boiler cleaning. What should I get for my OSCAR II?
In following this procedure on my Expobar Office Lever Plus, during the final rinsing stage, I'm only getting about 600 ml from my 1.5L boiler through my water spout each time. How big a problem is that?
@@Wholelattelovepage I thought Rocket recommended to never descale any of theri machine. So it is only for their dual boilers like my R58, but any other HX from Rocket can be done at home by yourself with a Urnex Descale product? I did not know that! :o
I have a la scala A1. The issue is that tradly with HX machine you turn it off and pull the lever to dispense of the water in the HX - but the A1 has no lever...any help appreciated..Thank you.
Hi JS, You will need to run a liter or two of water from the group head to rinse the HX section of the boiler. To drain the larger steam generating section of the boiler, with the machine heated up, turn the machine off then open the hot water wand and let run until no more water is expelled. You can check rinsing by adding some baking soda to expelled rinse water. If it fizzes then acid is still present and you should rinse some more. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you " You will need to run a liter or two of water from the group head to rinse the HX section of the boiler. " Do I achieve that by backflushing?
Hi Morgan and Marc, Thanks for this great video, it makes me feel much better about doing this myself. I have watched a couple of videos that had me opening up the machine, unplugging overflow sensors, wrapping towels inside... all very suspect and not anything I want to do. I have a Bezzera Magica that I received on March 20, I use it a few times a day and we have hard water but we have a water softener so I use about 70% soft and 30% hard water (due to the finicky water sensors in the Magica). Do you think I am safe to use this method to descale now? Thanks for all of your videos and advice, if it was not for living in Canada and duty/brokerage fees you would be my exclusive supplier. Stay safe, Mark
Hey Mark, You are welcome. Yes this method will work for the Magica. Just a heads up the Magica does have a boiler drain if you take the cover off but you do not have to use it when descaling unless desired. And another heads up: We now offer free shipping and no duty on all orders over $50 to Canada. Here's our Canadian site: wholelattelove.ca/ Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the heads up. I am so excited about the Canadian website, that is fantastic news! I am on it now setting up an account. All the best. Mark
@@allayth3247 amazing, how good tasting the espresso will be relies on many other factors then just the machine. This machine is amazing and the joysticks on the hot water and steam wands are game changers!
Thanks for the video! My Solis Barista Gran Gusto came without a blind and it’s also not mentioned in the manual. Should I still get one and do what you guys did in the video or should I follow your instructions, just without the blind in the portafilter? Thanks a ton :)
Hi DD, Thanks for the question and you are welcome for the video. I'm not familiar with that machine so not 100% certain. If it has a heat exchange boiler process outlined in thsi video should do the trick.
How should I do this with a Bezzera BZ 10? Bezzera does not provide any information on decalcification but advises against continuous decalcification !!! When using soft water, descaling is only necessary after several years. Only external decalcification is recommended here. Please show how this is done ;-).... Are there tips and empirical values for this? Greetings Christopher
Hi CK, Thanks for the question. Most all manufacturers advise against descaling prosumer level machines. This because if one decalcifies a neglected machine it can cause problems with chunks of scale dislodging in one area and plugging another. Then they call the manufacturer and complain. Machines with heat exchange boilers have less complex hydraulic systems than dual boiler machines so not nearly as risky for a home user to descale. The best course is to continuously prevent scale in the first place by filtering to reduce calcium while retaining a mineral level needed for taste and to prevent corrosion of metals. BWT has products like this for that purpose: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter Unless you know your machine has seen hard water for a long time without descaling or is showing symptoms of scaling it's relatively low risk to descale.
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi thanks for the feedback. I only use Volvic water with a hardness of 3.4 odH, magnesium 12 mg in 1.5 liters and calcium 30 mg in 1.5 liters. I last decalcified about 1.5 years ago. Now I have learned from various sources that because of the risk of clogging with lime particles, corrosion damage and the heating coil can also break as a result. Supposedly, this does not tolerate the descaler and should be removed and cleaned exclusively mechanically or replaced immediately. Do you have any experience with this? Please also show the external decalcification. Thank you for the many great videos about coffee. Thumbs up from me!! ;-) Best regards Christopher
It depends on what kind of filter you are using. No difference based on tank or plumbed. Filters that remove minerals which cause scale buildup will reduce or eliminate descaling. But, very few filters remove all the minerals and if there are no minerals in brew water flavor will suffer. Here's a filter that removes scaling minerals and replaces them with magnesium to maintain flavor without causing scale. Use of this filter eliminates descaling: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package
@@Wholelattelovepage so if you still use the tank and you use a filter BWT pack like a drop in; correct me if i am wrong i will still need to descale just less of it and the BWT bestmax premium will take away so i don't need to descale because it replaces the minerals and replaces them with magnesium
Hi Beansy, Thanks for the question. You are correct most manufacturers recommend dual boiler machines like the Synchronika be descaled by a professional. So the best strategy is using water which does not cause scale in the first place. Unfortunately the Brita filters I'm aware of don't do anything to reduce minerals in water which cause scale. They usually do particle and carbon filtration. But perhaps your tap water is relatively soft to begin with and not likely to cause scale? If you know your water is not soft then we suggest a BWT filtering solution. BWT has 3 options ranging from an in line filter for plumbed machines, a filtering pitcher and in-reservoir pad filters. All 3 options use patented ion-exchange technology which replaces calcium in water with magnesium. This prevents scale when used as directed yet maintains a mineral level to prevent over-extraction and support good flavor. All 3 do carbon filtration as well to removes chlorination/chemicals. Check them out here: BWT Bestmax Premium in-line filter system: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package-w-besthead-flex BWT Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher BWT Bestsave in-reservoir pad filter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter Hope that helps! Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc. I wasn’t aware the Brita didn’t offer this sort of protection and will make the switch. The machine is a year old and afaik the water is soft here. Is it worth descaling?
@@Wholelattelovepage yes had very low pressure. Did the descaling process and went ahead and ran the steamer with the solution and it eventually broke up the clog. Works great now
I keep coming back to this video every 6 months to remind me how to descale! Whole process takes like 40 minutes
One thing to remember is good room ventilation during the descale. When you flush the steam boiler, it releases the descaler as a steam, too, so you inhale it. And that Dezcal can cause some headaches and weird patterns appearing in your eyes. So ventilate well, and if you feel weird, go outside for a fresh air.
Just use food safe citric acid lol, no reason to use chemicals.
I always use this video to descale the coffee machine. It was a bit scary at first but with practice I do it every 2 months. It's Not a chore any more as I have the confidence to do it.tha ks to you and the miracle of youtube😅
I have loved espresso for years but was intimidated by the process of pulling good shots etc. But you guys helped ease me through it all. From research to purchase to technique and now cleaning. On behalf of all us coffee bean junkies thanks so much!
Hi Alex, Thanks for the kind comment!
Marc
Thank you so much for the complete info! I have a Rocket Chellini that was always told to not descale. Now I understand that is for the double boiler machines and not HX. I followed your directions here and my Chellini is back to full operation with no weird sounds and short cycling on pressure stat. I will not go anywhere for products or support if even found cheaper. You guys rock!
Great to hear! Thanks for your comment!!!
Great video. I followed the instructions exactly and it worked perfectly on my 18 month old Rocket Appartmento. I did clean the E61 group head as shown on another of your videos prior to this flush. The machine now works like new. Thank you!!!
Hey Stella, That's awesome - happy we could help you out!
Marc
This was a perfect video and really helped me understand the steps for ensuring my "precious" remains squeaky clean! Thanks for sharing!
You're so welcome! Thanks for the comment!
Wish I'd watched this BEFORE i descaled my 8 month old (and never descaled) Nuova Simonelli Musica (there is not tech where I live in Argentina).
I had green blue stuff coming out for days and clogged valves for weeks.
Thank you for the instructional video. Here's to NOT blowing up our machine ;-)
Hola, como lo solucionaste? Tengo una oscar II de Nuova Simonelli y no se si hacerle el descaling, nunca lo hice en 1 año.
Mine has green fluid coming out too. Is that a problem? I assume the chemical is working
just did this on a pro 500 and the water was pretty clean but it had tons of tiny specs of scale in it. used urnex dezcal powder. 100g to 1/2 gallon of water. had the machine well over a year and don't think I had done this properly before. working good as new and I will now chemically clean the group head and then lubricate the e-61 lever mechanism. thanks again for posting this.
Hey Matthew, Thanks for the comment and that sounds like a good plan. To help you out here's a couple videos:
Espresso Machine E61 Brew Group Maintenance and Rebuild: ruclips.net/video/ELIwD40tsrs/видео.html
How to Backflush Your Espresso Machine: ruclips.net/video/5LEd0XoFVRg/видео.html
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage i have ran the pump via the brew lever and drained into a bowl from the group head and there are still tons of specks in the water. ran almost 2 clean gallons through it after descaling. is this normal? I am thinking there was a ton of scale in the brew (HX) boiler. water out of the hot water wand is very clear with nothing in it.... should I try descaling again?
thanks for these videos. makes investing in 5k worth of espresso equipment much more practical.
Hey kk, You're welcome and thanks for yopur comment!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage i haven't regretted the expenditure.
Doing this very overdue descale on my WLL Expobar Office Control right now. Soaking as I type. Wish me luck 🤞🤞
Do you have this procedure in outline form. It would be easier for me to follow an outline or chart than going back and forth watching the video. It,s a great video but a chart would be easier to follow after reviewing the video,. I don't have to descale enough to get the steps naturally.
Hey B, Here you go:
How to Descale HX Boiler
To machine on and heat up to operational pressure.
Once up to temperature turn it off. Then open the hot water valve. Steam pressure forces out liquid water in the boiler.
Then operate the brew group lever to discharge water in the heat exchanger.
When no more water flows, close the hot water valve and the brew group lever.
Prepare the descaling solution according to the instructions. If using Urnez Dezcal or Full Circle descaler, mix the powder or liquid with 32 ounces of water. If using the powder type be sure to mix until completely dissolved.
Add the descaling solution to water tank and turn the machine on. The pump fills the boiler with descaling solution.
After the pump stops operate the brew group lever until liquid is discharged by the group. This fills the heat exchanger with the descaling solution.
Place the portafilter with the blind filter inserted into the brew group and lock in place. Now operate the brew group lever 3 times, leaving it in the run position for 20 seconds each time. Move the lever to the lower position after each operation. This process descales the expansion valve.
Lett the descaler react in the boiler for 20 minutes. After that, release the remaining descaler by operating the brew group lever until the water tank is empty and no more liquid is dispensed.
Switch off the machine, Remove the nozzle from the hot water dispenser and open the hot water valve. Steam pressure will push out any descaler left in the boiler.
Remove the water tank, rinse and refill with fresh water. Replace the tank and turn the machine on. The boiler refills with the fresh water.
When the pump stops operate the brew group lever three times for about 20 seconds each with the blind filter still in place. This rinses the expansion valve. Be sure to move the lever to the lower position after each operation.
Remove the blind filter and operate the brew group lever for about 60 seconds in order to rinse the heat exchanger.
To fully rinse the boiler, repeat the following procedure 3 to 5 times:
Switch the machine off and operate the hot water valve to drain the boiler. Refill the water tank and turn the machine on. Allow the machine to come up to operating pressure. Then turn the machine off and open the hot water valve to drain.
Again, repeat that process 3 to 5 times to fully rinse the boiler. When done you have completed the descaling procedure.
A couple of things: First, thanks to the WLL crew for posting this - if I didn't live about 10K miles away I would pop in and shake your hands (and buy something...).
For those of you investigating cleaning options and reading the comments here you will see that there is some controversy on the issue of descaling. It might be a little more like a culture war actually. If you do enough research you will come across the position recommended here, and also the alternative, which is not to descale at home. This latter position is endorsed in one video by one machine manufacturer, but on the very specific basis that the machine is fitted with an in-tank filter (calcium remover/softener) of some kind (at the least). If you listen carefully to this video the WLL crew are careful to point out that a home attempt to descale a likely dirty machine could prove problematic. With that proviso - my three trusted authorities all recommend home descaling so that's the way I have gone. However I also use an in tank filter in addition to filtered water...this belt and braces approach allows me to descale less often and somehow that seems like the best and easiest of all possible worlds. Thanks again WLL crew.
Hi Tony, Thanks for the detailed comment - I would love to shake your hand! What I get from most manufacturers of prosumer level machines is: Use good water to prevent scale in the first place. Best not to attempt descaling dual boiler machines at home. It can be done, but you have to know what you are doing. In most cases it requires removing the boilers as they are not easy to drain in most machines. Also dual boiler machines have a lot of extra hydraulic components like solenoid valves which are trap points for bits of scale which can dislodge during descaling and plug things up - especially in machines which have been using untreated hard water.
Marc
Thanks for your videos guys! It helped me clean my Bezzara BZ10 easily! Its now in my saved vids so I can come back to it each time I need to descale :)
Hi Jay, Thanks for the comment! Happy to help. Be sure and check out our support wiki for the Bezzera BZ10 here: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Bezzera_BZ10/diagrams_and_manuals The descaling and other videos are there as well as manuals and diagrams, use tips and more.
Marc
Hi Mark!
You know after rinsing the boiler still remain with solution in the pressure boiler because on that technique you can't empty the boiler properly and you'll finish to have a nasty taste on hot water and milk. I am a coffee engineer for more that 14 years and I don't recomand to do that to the pressure boiler. On the heat exchanger yes is working fine because you have a continuous flow
Great video. Can you add more description to the steps where you are letting hot water and steam run from the tap? I find with my Bezera BZ 13 it is hard to tell when it's finished expelling steam. Am I looking for no more steam to be expelled or just no more liquid?
Hi AD, Thanks for the comment and question. You're looking for no more liquid from the wand.
Hooray Marc & Morgan for the De-scale video! My Profitec Pro 500 and I appreciate it!
Gary Skardina Hi Gary, Glad we could help!
My hot water dispenser was fully clogged. Thanks to this video I was able to have it working again.
the acid taste of the descaling product is very persistent and not easy to get rid of. So you better use the filtered water instead. The descaling process will eventually destroy the heating element of the boiler . It happened to my QuickMill Andreja. Learn from my mistakes - I had to spend a lot of money sending the machine to the service center for repair and they told me that they had to disassemble the whole machine in order to descale it properly. Even after the backflashing process with blind portafilter and descaling chemicals , some elements in E61 group should be lubricated to prevent the wear of the lever mechanism...
i've found on my profitec 700 that, in addition to the 3-5x end process, i typically need to flush the grouphead for another 4-5 minutes to get the salt taste out of the water, backflushing every ~60 seconds
Hi kk, We generally recommend end home users do not descale dual boiler machines. As you've found it's difficult to fully flush out descaling acids. Especially the steam boiler. It has open headspace. When descaler is introduced to the steam boiler it can foam up into the headspace. When running water through the steam boiler it never fills the boiler entirely so foam is left in headspace. Best practice is to filter/treat source water to prevent scale from forming in the first place. BWT Water & More has filters using ion-exchange available for plumbed and reservoir fed machines. Their filters exchange calcium in source water for magnesium. They also remove chlorination using activated carbon. The result is chlorine free water with a mineral level needed for flavor and corrosion protection that when used as directed will not cause scale formation in the machine.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage we have always used distilled store bought water for it, is this an acceptable practical alternative to eliminate the need for descaling? I understand that the use of distilled water is considered to negatively affect the taste of the espresso, but to us it tastes awesome and have zero complaints. Can we just stick with distilled and stop the 6 moth descales?
@@dr_flunks If it tastes good to you that's what matters! You'll get no scale using water with zero mineral content. But, be aware there is a risk of corrosion of metals if using pure distilled water. Pure distilled and reverse osmosis waters are such a good solvents they pull ions from metals causing corrosion. You may not see issues right away but down the road it could cause trouble. What's your tap water like? If good quality and on the softer side with ppm of
@@dr_flunks distilled water alone is a recipe for disaster down the road. Your machine may corrode from the inside. You should search for R Pavlis water recipe, it's simple and safe for the machine, also eliminates need for descaling.
Whole Latte Love I am a service tech and I have to say that I love this video since is gonna break so many machines, that means more work for me!
Descaling must be done by professionals and you know it. I had more than one customer coming at the shop with the machine wrecked after they followed this video. You're not able to properly rinse ALL the descaling solution without using tools and without knowing what you're doing. But it's ok, keep up the good job in helping final users to wreck their machines and thank you to provide us work. Peace
Hi Luca, I'm going to disagree for the most part. I'll agree to some extent in the case of dual boiler machines. We recommend home users have dual boiler machines descaled by a professional technician. Some users do insist on descaling their own DB machines. With enough knowledge and skill it is possible for home users to descale DB machines. I'll add that manufacturers of many single boiler machines semi-auto machines and all manufacturers of super-automatic machines provide descaling instructions for home users in product manuals. FYI we run a service dept and work on 1000's of machines per year. Biggest problem we run into is users neglecting descaling for long periods. Then they descale and scale particles can clog other components in their machine. For single boiler and HX machines home users can descale so long as they stay on schedule. It's very easy to fully rinse single boiler and HX machines. In cases where descaling maintenance has been neglected I'd recommend home users have their machine professionally serviced.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage you disagree and I disagree as well with your point of view, the only useful thing a customer can do to prevent scale build up is to use filtered water or at least use a scale inhibitor. Descaling must be done by professionals, but like I said, this video will keep us techs busy so thank you again
@@Wholelattelovepage automatic machines are a completely different thing and it's ok to descale em since the majority of the manufacturers use flash boilers for the steam.
Can you do an updated version of descaking? Perhaps there are newer products on the market that didn't exist 8 years ago.
Hi P, thanks for the suggestion! I anticipate updating this video at some point to include more recent products. In the meantime know the process is the same with newer products. At base level all products use an acid for descaling. Most common is citric acid. Use/mix according to product instructions and follow descaling procedure in this video.
Thank you guys for this valuable video.
Oddly, 32 oz of descaling solution is not quite enough to fill the boiler. I always need to add more water. Sort of defeats the purpose.
Hello. I have a very old Rancilio Silvia V1 or V2. I got it as a gift and not able to check if the previous owners made descaling process and cleaned it up. The flavor of espresso isn’t good. I want to clean the brewing group first and then I think to descale the machine. But i don’t know - it’s old - maybe inside a boiler huge amount of scale and some parts can stuck inside the machine pipes or system? But machine was in NYC and here is very soft tap water like 37-38 TDS. Really appreciate your advice 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hey alex, Cleaning the group is a good first step. Coffee oils accumulated there can go rancid and impact flavor. As it's a very old machine I wonder if it's reaching a proper temperature? If it's not, espresso would likely be sour. There's always risk descaling a machine without details of previous maintenance. You're right, descaling may dislodge scale chunks and end up plugging things up. But if machine has always been fed very soft water heavy internal scale is unlikely. If you're handy with tools you could take a pipe off the boiler and look for signs of scale. Or if you descale and something plugs up you could take apart and clear. Solenoid valve is common area for issues. If it turns out the machine has huge amounts of scale simple descaling will not clear it out and machine will require a rebuild.
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you very much 🙏🏻🙏🏻
how can i descale if my hot water valve is plugged. I followed instructions on previous video and determined clog is not in the hot water wand or assembly and is further in the piping/boiler. For reference I have a Rocket Appartamento Serie Nera
Hi Justin, You will need to determine where the scale obstruction is and correct it. Basically continue working backwards from the wand to find the blockage. Here's a support article for the Appartamento which includes a video on tracing back hot water flow issues: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500008536862--Rocket-Espresso-Appartamento-Serie-Nera-Flow-Issues
HI Marc, is there any chance you can make a video of descaling the Bezzera BZ13 DE? In your video you show opening the water spout after turning the machine off and then opening the group head as well. With the BZ13 you can not open the group head unless the machine is turned on and then it is once again filling the boiler. I am using the BWT pitcher, but I figured it would be a good idea to descale once in a while to be safe. Also, in my previous comment when I open the water valve I only get 350 ml of water coming out. Is this normal for this machine?
So i did this in my rocket the only thing that threw me off was from the 20 seconds back flushing three times I noticed my pressure gauge go past green than i just open the steam valve to lower pressure
Hi, thank you for the video! Do you see any advantage in removing the probe so that you are able to fully fill the boiler with the solution? Also - did i missed it or were you only working on group and hot water side, but not with the steam side of the machine? How do you descale the steam arm? Thank you very much
Hi JF, You are welcome and thank you for your comment and question. For routine descaling moving the probe to have the boiler fill more is not required IMO. For someone without proper knowledge/skill it could lead to problems. In normal use no scale should occur in the steam arm. Steam coming through the arm is essentially distilled with little or no mineral content so no scale should accumulate there.
Marc
Hi guys. Seeing this comment and response- why then couldn’t you use this routine to fill and descale the dual boilers of the 600? The 700 manual references routine preventative descaling but not the 600. I can’t see how this process would be any different, with the caveat that you need to try and fully empty the brew boiler before the pump fills it with descale solution.
Hi, Your online presence is what lead me to get my first machine, and now have upgraded to a Mini Vivaldi II S1, yet the machine I got was left a bit neglected. I wiped it down, but it is not getting much water flowing. I am wondering if this method would be the same on the Mini V2 S1 ?
Hi p, No it would not be the same. The machine you reference is a dual boiler. In a neglected machine there are many areas where limescale deposits may be slowing the flow. Might be issues beyond scale as well.
What can I do? Is there a repairer that deals with this make, so they can get parts? Thank you for reading your comments and replying!!@@Wholelattelovepage
Not looking forward to doing this lol Just cleaned the group head and took a lot of flushes before water was clear. Descaling looks like a whole other beast haha
Hey dd, Not as bad as it looks and your machine will thank you!.
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the words of encouragement Marc!
Hi guys’! Amaing video. One question, would you recommend this process for a machine like Sanremo Capri, with rotary pump, flojet and a barel water intake? Or shouldnt I be trying this at home? thank you so much for any answer!
Hey g, Not familiar with that machine, but it appears to be a commercial one. For that I'd recommend service by a qualified machine technician.
Do you guys also have a video on how to descale a single boiler machine like the Profitec GO?
Hi Marc. Thanks for the helpful video.
My question is just a point of clarification. In the video, you mix the descaling liquid with 32 oz of water as indicated on the packaging. Since the Profitec Pro 500 has a 2 liter boiler, do you add plain water to fill the boiler or mix multiple batches of descaler?
Hi George, Thanks for the question and my apologies for a delayed response. Was off the grid for holiday weekend. Although the internal volume of the boiler is about 2L you will not need a full 2 liters of solution as the boiler does not fill completely. If the machine takes in more than 32oz of descaler I would not dilute. I would mix more.
Marc
I am missing an important piece of information in your presentation. When I pour the descaling solution (in 32 oz of water) to the water tank, is the water tank empty or should some water be in it? If so, how much. If I pour the 32 oz into an empty tank, it is not enough liquid in the tank and the orange light is not on. So, how much water does actually need to be in the tank (plus the 32 oz of the descaling solution)?
Hi Ursula, The water tank should be empty when you add the descaling solution. Your machine may require more than 32oz of solution depending on boiler size. On most machines if the orange light is out it means there's not enough water in the boiler and the machine is not heating. If you went through the first step in the video of initially draining the boiler of regular water then when you turn the machine on the orange light should be out until the boiler refills. The boiler should refill when you add the descaling solution to the tank and the tank sensor senses enough liquid in the tank. You will need enough descaling solution in the tank to fill the boiler plus some extra for the group flushing. Lacking your make/model info I do not know the size of your boiler. If the descaling solution in the tank drains to a tank out of water state while refilling the boiler you will need to add more descaling solution to the tank.
@@Wholelattelovepage I have the exact model of the coffee machine that you are doing your presentation on. The exact one, so I don't think the boilers on them vary in size. I have Profitec 500. The exact same machine you work on. So I would suggest that you add a clarification to the presentation. From what I am getting from your response I need to make more descaling solution. Before, I was just adding water but it did not seem right because it caused the potency of the solution to go down.
Thank you so much both of you! Can I do the same process on Lelit Mara X?
Hi Jeff, While I've never descaled that machine it's an HX E61 so process should be the same.
Hi guys just came across this video, because the video is 9 years old would you still use the same procedure on a Bezzera Magica s pid ? Regards steve
Hi Steve, Thanks for the question. Our advice has modified some over the years. The best course for any machine is to use water that does not cause scale in the first place. The trouble with boilers that produce steam (like HX boilers) is they never completely fill. There's always some headspace in the boiler and scale often forms at the spot where the water stops and headspace starts. Since they don't fill all the way it's difficult to descale that spot.
@@Wholelattelovepage hi thanks for the reply? I saw a video on that said if you disconnect the heating probe this would over fill the boiler while you do your descale, ? Steve
I heard that you shouldn't let the boiler come up to temperature and do everything with a cold machine.
Does boiler temp matter at all?
Hi there, I think Rocket may be saying not to descale their machines any more.. Can you advise on this? Thanks
Since I got my ECM Synchronika, I've been back flushing with cafiza once per week (as shown in a previous Whole Latte Love video). I've only used Crystal Geyser by Roxane bottled water. Is what I'm doing correct, or do I need to be doing more for preventive maintenance?
Hi Alvin, Unfortunately I have no data on the mineral content of the water you are using. With the Synchronika (and all dual boilers) it's important to use a water that will not cause scale. You want some minerals in the water for flavor and to protect machine from corrosion but you need to reduce the calcium level to prevent scale. BWT Water & More filters use calcium to magnesium ion-exchange to get the right mineral level and no scale. BWT has options for plumbed in, reservoir feed or a filtering pitcher. Check those out here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/bwt
For backflushing you may want to back off Cafiza frequency depending on how many extractions you do per week. We recommend backflushing with Cafiza every 120 brew cycles. Doing it more often will not hurt anything but will remove lubricant from internal group components causing squeaks. Also recommend plain water backflushing without detergent every couple of days.
For additional info on your machines check out our support section for the Synchronika here: support.wholelattelove.com/hc/en-us/sections/1500000400302-ECM-Synchronika
Lot's of maintenance, usage and DIY videos articles there.
Marc
I just purchased a Rocket Mazzafiatto vibration pump model. Andrew Meo said NOT to descale this heat exchanger model as most people do not have the knowledge to properly descale this type of machine. He also stressed many do not properly flush the machines. Rocket states this will void your warranty and require expensive repairs in the long run.
I live in Utah where the water is quite hard. I have a whole house water softener (sodium rinsed resin tank) and additionally use Pur water pitcher filtration for a Crossland CC1. I descale it with citric acid crystals about every 4 months. In the Crossland the solution stays in the machine over night then gets rinsed 4-5 tankfuls. Seems to work very well.
What is one to do as I wish to protect my investment? I know vibration pumps can overheat if run too long (purging process) so care has to be taken to protect the pump.
My espresso is as good as any of the coffee shops in Salt Lake, maybe even better. Make my own blends and roast my own every 4 days, but that is off the subject.
I am feeling like Andrew is shortening the life of the machine so he can sell more product. I do not agree with that approach.
Hi Stephen, Thanks for the extensive comments and questions. I think Andrew is protecting a bit as one can cause problems if a machine is not descaled at regular intervals. If a machine gets a lot of scale and is descaled it can cause scale particles to loosen up, not fully dissolve and clog internal components. If one is reasonably knowledgeable we feel it's fine to descale a heat exchange machine. Different story for dual boiler machines. Best way to prevent scale in the first place is proper water treatment to reduce mineral levels of source water. Sounds like you have a reasonable plan for doing that. In your situation I would test the water your using after softening and the Pur pitcher to get an idea if it's likely to cause scale. Here's a link to the Langelier Saturation Index (LSI) calculator You can plug in info from a water test to see if it's likely to cause scale: www.cleanwaterstore.com/technical/water-treatment-calculations/share-calculater/langlier.php and here's a video with details on LSI: ruclips.net/video/Iw6DEDeggtY/видео.html
Additionaly, It's important to flush your boiler every now and again if you're only steaming and not taking hot water out for Americanos or similar over time the mineral level will increase in the boiler - even in well treated water. When steaming only no minerals come out in the steam. Citric acid is a fine choice for descaling. It's what is in products like Dezcal featured in the video but I'll say letting it sit overnight may be too long IMO.
I'm with you on the quality of espresso in many shops - you have to find a good shop with knowledgeable baristas that care. Lucky in our area we have a number of independent micro-roasters who are espresso oriented and know what they are doing. Also plenty of disappointing places with excellent equipment but don't have educated staff to operate.
You guys are the best
Well thanks a whole latte for the comment!
Marc
Hello ,I had a problem with my saeco aroma nero use dezcal to disqualify it but after emptying the tank with the product and proceed to rinse when I do a shot of water from the head this after a few seconds throws a white cloudy water but after a while it becomes transparent, I hope you can help me, thank you.
Hi ml, Continue to rinse until water runs clear.
I have heard that it is not recommended to descale the Rocket Appartamento, or their other machines. I have heard they prefer to have customers sned in their machine for a professional descaling about every year or so. Is this true? I mean, your video seems pretty legit and seems like it would work just as well. Or does Rocket just say this as a money scheme to get more money for labor and machine assessments?
Hi Kaleb, Thanks for the question. As far as I know Rocket does little if any maintenance for their domestic products like the Appartamento. They sell machines all over the world. Located outside of Milan it's not realistic for end users to send machines there for service. One might think they include the professional recommendation to support their dealer service departments. We do service here and I don't believe we've ever had an Appartamento in for descaling. If an end user has proper skills and knowledge then okay to descale.
Can i use this same process with a pasquini livia 90s?
Yes
2:56 So you DO NOT TURN OFF the machine during the descale 20mins period? I've read leaving it on can damage the machine. Are you sure?
Hi JS, I've done it both ways with no problems. But you are correct. This in an older video. More recently we've gone to turning the machine off during the 20 minutes. You will need to heat the machine back up again to expel water/descaler from the steam generating section of the boiler.
If this procedure is done, is no longer necessary at that time to also make a back flush?
Hi CL, You can do some extra plain water backflushes if desired but it's not required.
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks. I did the procedure yesterday, i ran 5 time with fresh water the boilers. But still have a salty after taste my coffee, something that pre decal was not present.
I have just been informed by a Bezzera dealer that you shouldn't descale the E61 boiler. Is this correct?
Hi E, Manufacturers in most cases recommend against end users descaling their espresso machines. It's not that it can't be done but can cause problems if done incorrectly. The best course is to filter water to lower the calcium content so scale does not form in the first place.
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi thank you for such a rapid response, your customer service is fantastic. Yes, I do filter my water but I was just thinking it may be good to just descale as part of an annual maintenance process. I will take your comments on board and perhaps just do a backflush using some cleaning powder or liquid.
@@Elfin4 Happy to help and thanks for your comment!
how should I continuously decalcify according to the manufacturer's instructions if Bezzera advises against it? You say that if the water is below 14°F, I only have to decalcify after many years... ? And if everything is removed and reinstalled for external decalcification...Please also show an external decalcification of the Bezzera BZ 10 ... I'm unsure now :-(
Hi CK, Thanks for the question. Most all manufacturers advise against descaling prosumer level machines. This because if one decalcifies a neglected machine it can cause problems with chunks of scale dislodging in one area and plugging another. Then they call the manufacturer and complain. Machines with heat exchange boilers have less complex hydraulic systems than dual boiler machines so not nearly as risky for a home user to descale. The best course is to continuously prevent scale in the first place by filtering to reduce calcium while retaining a mineral level needed for taste and to prevent corrosion of metals. BWT has products like this for that purpose: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter
Unless you know your machine has seen hard water for a long time without descaling or is showing symptoms of scaling it's relatively low risk to descale.
That's great, what about a plumbed in double boiler machine?
This descales the entire boiler which might not be necessary and can be work the vibration pump too hard. It will be good if there's instruction on just descaling the grouphead and heat exchanger.
Hi WLL, I did this on my BZ10 and I noticed the water from the hot water tap is still slightly sour tasting (from the group it's fine). Any suggestions on that? Just keep repeating the clear water flush until it's back to normal?
Hi DJK, Yes repeat the flushing.
Marc
Great tutorial, thank you!
Btw, there is also a recommendation to lift the water level sensor in the tank a bit, in order to let the descaling agent fill the tank slightly beyond the normal waterline. - What would you say?
Hi e, you are welcome and thank you for comment and question. Yes that can be done. Just carefully raise the boiler's water level sensor a half inch and descaling agent will cover the normal waterline in the boiler. Don't forget to push it back down when done! I don't think it's all that necessary as waterline level usually does not get scale - in use, as water level drops it's mostly mineral free steam making contact with boiler walls in that area.
how can you descale if the pump isnt moving any water through it? expobar office badly needs a descale
Hey r, If the pump is running and not moving water through the machine and you know it's way overdue for descaling it sounds like there may be a complete blockage caused by scale somewhere in the machine. In that case it's disassemble components working your way through machine from water reservoir to group to locate the blockage(s). Sometimes a pipe or other component can be removed and descaled. Other times blockage is so severe component will need to be replaced.
@@Wholelattelovepage big descale and it is fine now thanks
I would assume the proftec por 700 would be the same, but how do you descale if it would be plumed?
Hi Chris, Actually it's not the same. In fact we do not recommend end users descale dual boiler machines. We recommend dual boiler machines be descaled professionally. Here's our wiki page with loads of information in regards to the Pro 700 including links to a bunch of useful videos specif to the Pro 700: wiki.wholelattelove.com/Profitec_Pro_700
Descaling maintenance can be eliminated by using proper water filtration. It's especially easy on a plumbed machine with a filter system like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package
Is it possible to descale my profitec pro 600 myself?
Hi T, Thanks for the question. Yes but manufacturers recommend against end users descaling dual boiler machines. It's difficult to fully rinse the steam boiler. In our repair facility dual boiler machines have the boilers removed for descaling. The best thing to do is prevent scale in the first place. We recommend calcium to magnesium ion-exchange treatment from BWT Water & More. They have drop in reservoir pad filters: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter or the Penquin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher
Hi Marc, this is a very good channel but please dont play the background music! :-(
Lol, thanks for the comment. This is an older video. Haven’t used that music in a long time!
Marc
How do I descale a Profitec Pro 700 (dual boiler)?
Hi Wilson, We do not recommend home users descale dual boiler machines. Best to have it done by a professional technician. Reason, there's a risk of plugging internal components with loosened scale. It's best to prevent scale in the first place by filtering water with a system which replaces calcium with magnesium. This maintains a mineral level needed for good flavor and protection from corrosion without causing scale. Look to BWT Water & More filter options which use patented calcium to magnesium ion exchange. More info on their products in this video: ruclips.net/video/1C0GdOKxLj4/видео.html
Marc
You don't run solution through the hot water dispenser before leaving for 20 minutes?
hey. thank you for this video.
i have watched it and tried to descale it with single boiler machine ecm casa v....
Stupid me did backflush whilst descaling solution was already in boiler/running through grouphead brew action.
i left for 20-30 mins for few times and now i get these crystals in the water no matter how many times i filtered the boiler and grouphead.
any idea what i have done ? is this normal and takes more time or did i damage anything?
Hey Marc hope you are well, I know this video is old, but I wanted to descale my ecm tecnika and wanted to know if there is any danger to the boiler/machine itself descaling it like in your videos. I'm getting all dorts of advice and I would appreciate yours on this matter. Plus is a ecological cleaner any good? Thanks in advance!
Hi Marc, ok, I did heat the machine to 198. I turned it off and opened the water valve. Only 350ml came out. Since this has a 1.5 liter boiler it is leaving a lot of water behind, or it is not filling the boiler up. I did notice when I first got the machine and did the first run, it did not take that much water out of the plastic water container. Thoughts?
Is it normal to have cyan bluish water after leaving descale water in boiler for about 20 minutes ? I rarely descale my HX machine since i used BWT filter jug. Please help. Thanks
Hi MIM, May not be unusual. Does your machine have a copper boiler? Continue rinsing water through the boiler until color is gone.
@@Wholelattelovepage Yes , i have copper boiler , is it a bad sign for copper boiler ?
Can this work with Pasquini Livia 90?
Hi Allison, Yes. But, do be aware there is risk involved if the machine is overdue for descaling especially if it's had a lot of use with hard (mineral rich) water. Chunks of scale can dislodge during descaling and plug up other areas of the machine.
Nice 👍
Which coffee machine build in wall or cabin and blaming in , is the best one and reliable to ? Do you know would have some advice ?
Thanks 🙏
I'm a new owner of a Profitec 500 PID purchased from WLL. WLL specs for the machine show Durgol Swiss Espresso Descaler as the descaler to be used. This descaler is not mentioned in this video. I'm confused. Is it OK to use the Durgol product? If so, how do you advise using the Durgol product? Are the products you show in the video better than the Durgol product? Thanks.
Hi Jack, Thanks for the question and congrats on your new machine! The Durgol is safe for any boiler material so it's a go to recommendation. If using Durgol mix 50/50 with water. Your Pro 500 has a stainless steel boiler so any of the Urnex products in this video are fine to use. Urnex Liquid Dezcal is a popular choice and used by many commercial cafes: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/cleaning-products/products/urnex-liquid-dezcal
Dezcal may be slightly more effective. It's just a little more aggressive than the Durgol.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc!
Mark, I recently purchased the Bezzera BZ13 DE. I also purchased the BWT pitcher. Does this mean I will never have to descale my machine, or should I do it once in awhile to be safe?
Hey Tom, Thanks for the question. According to BWT scale should not form in a machine when their Penguin Pitcher is used as directed. This assumes your source water has no edge case issues and is safe for drinking from the tap. If you were using the machine prior to use of the pitcher then scale may have formed. If that's your case I would descale just to be sure.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi Marc, on your descaling video, you turn the machine off and then drain water. On the BZ13 when you turn it off you can't drain the water. Do you have instructions for descaling the BZ 13?
@@tobiferris Hey Tom, With the machine fully heated, turn the power off. Open the hot water valve and the boiler will drain. Once drained, refill reservoir with descaling solution, turn the machine on and the boiler will refill. Turn on the brew switch and expel a few cups of water which is replaced by the descaling solution from the reservoir. After that the process is essentially the same as in the video except you are operating the brew switch instead of a brew lever.
@@Wholelattelovepage ok, I did heat the machine to 198. I turned it off and opened the water valve. Only 350ml came out. Since this has a 1.5 liter boiler it is leaving a lot of water behind, or it is not filling the boiler up. I did notice when I first got the machine and did the first run, it did not take that much water out of the plastic water container. Thoughts?
How do I descale a Livia G4 DE PID?Watching this video, there isn’t a brew group lever and the machine buttons won’t operate with the machine off as instructed. If you turn it on, it will refill the boiler. Thanks in advance.
CAN SOMEONE HELP ME? So I have ran a few cycles (brewing) after having done the initial one with the descaling liquid. However, after having it run a few times now with clean (and somewhat warm water) I notice that not much of the heavy calcium deposit has been removed from the bottom of the espresso water reservoir. Any tips? Should I start the descaling process with the liquid again?
Hi SC, Calcium deposits in the water reservoir may be an indication of some very hard (mineral laden) water. If you have scale there it's likely you have even more internally which is affecting your heating performance causing the "somewhat warm water" you describe. Without seeing the machine it's hard to say for sure but you may have so much internal scale that no amount of descaling will solve the problem.
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks so much for your response; I appreciate it!
I dont know if this helps but I should had stated that:
1) I bought this all-in-one machine over 10 years ago-used it just a few times and didn't know about the descaling process and so...I never did it. I'm starting to think the calcium deposits are just too hard to remove at this point? I don't know if those deposits are toxic if it makes it into my coffee...
2) the frothing (nozzle) for as much cycles I did (descaled it at this point like 3 times then with clean water) there are orange particles that come out when I turn on the pressure button (I'm assuming it rusted) over the years so...
My question now is:
am I better off just investing in a new one? The coffee side works like new & have had coffee but then what's the point of keeping it if the cappuccino side and nozzle are throwing out those yucky particles out? I don't want that in my drink. Advice??
Hello
Thanks for the helpful video.
I recently purchased the Elba 3 from you guys. It does not have a hot water wand. How can I rinse the boiler on this machine? Should I lift the lever for the group head to run everytime you are turning on the wand?
Thanks
Hi Max, There is a valve for draining the boiler underneath the machine. Lifting the lever runs water only through the brew water heat exchange section. It does not cause water to turn over in the steam producing section of the boiler.
I have BZ10 and after few months of usage the water is not clear from water tap while it's clear from grouphead. As I never use water tap, I think I don't need to descale!? As the water coming to grouphead is from the fresh water tank. I do backflush regularly however.
Hi MJ, Thanks for the question. My apologies for a delayed response - I was on vacation and offline for about ten days. The BZ10 uses a heat exchange boiler. In that setup the water heated for steam/hot water and water for brewing are always kept separate within the machine. Over time, water in the steam/hot water section of the boiler will concentrate minerals if you only do steaming and never take hot water from the boiler. This is because the steam does not carry minerals out of the boiler. Best practice for machines with HX boilers is to occasionally turn over the water in the boiler by using the hot water tap. This lowers the mineral concentration in the boiler by adding fresh water. In your shoes I would run a few liters through the hot water tap until the water runs clear and then descale the machine. If water was not running clear from the tap as you described it's likely the mineral level in the boiler was high and some scale has formed. Going forward it's a good idea to run a few cups of water through the hot water tap on a regular basis. Depending on usage level do this every couple of days.
Marc
Is it work for Oscar 2 ???
Cannot recommend this procedure for that machine.
Can you descale an Expobar by Lever? My local repair guy told me no, but after watching this video, I’m curious?
Hi SSH, Expobar machines go by different names in different countries. Here in the US an "Expobar Lever" is a machine with a heat exchange boiler and can be descaled by end user. If your Expobar is a dual boiler then descaling is best done by a professional.
Marc
Does this video apply to the Bezzera BZ13 DE?
I've just tried this technique (p500) . However, after numerous rinsing (as per the end of the video), steam from the steam wand still smells of the descaler (everywhere else is fine).
Is there a missing step?
Hi Michael, Hmm... That's odd! What descaler are you using? Most have no odor so curious as to what you are smelling. You can check for complete rinsing of descaler by putting some baking soda in water coming from your steam wand. If there's still descaler (acid) present you will get a reaction like those grade school volcanoes.
hi marc, i read in one of the comments descalers should not be used for stainless steel HX boilers like my ECM technika profi V (which i got from you). is this true? otherwise i shall be doing this every 90-100 days like you suggested
Is it the same process for a dual boiler machine pro 600?
Hi x, no. ECM and most every espresso machine manufacturer recommends dual boiler machines be descaled (if needed) by a professional technician. Due to the complexity of their internal plumbing, there's a chance a piece of scale could dislodge during descaling in one part of the machine and plug another part. Best course of action is to prevent scale in dual boiler machines by properly treating water used in the machine. This means softening the water to reduce calcium. Typical sodium softening can work but is kinda old school. We prefer treating water with BWT Water & More products which use patented ion-exchange to replace calcium with magnesium. Their filters also remove chlorination from water. For a machine like the Pro 600 you could use their in-reservoir Bestave pad filters: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter
or their Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher
Ok, thank you. I already have a water filter and use this. Is there a difference between the Bwt water filter jug and other brands? In the UK Brita is a very common filter brand.
I want to descale it because I've been using bottled water/filtered water to top up the water tank. Going forward, I may use a mix of distilled and filter water.
@@x7SiNz-- Hi, Brita may have some specialized filters I'm not aware of but those I'm familiar with (they're common here in the US as well) do nothing to reduce water hardness/calcium. They use activated carbon for chemicals like chlorine, etc. and particle filters.
Hi, how do you leave the machine as the descaler reacts (that 20 min time), you leave it on or off? Thanks!
+oct blk Leave it on.
Hi, great video, do you have any advice on how to descale an Expobar New Elegance as it is plumbed in and doesn't have a water tank? Thank you.
I own a Nuova Simonelli Musica, how do I drain my boilers?
Can I descale the boiler of my Rancilio Epoca St1 with the same way?
Anyone else out there with the Profitec 500 that have the same issue as mine? I’ve been waiting to descale it again until I get further input about the pump turning off due to low water level since the 32 ounces of full circle descaled isn’t enough liquid for the boiler to fill properly and turns off my pump and heater.
What about tankless?
Hi bc, on a plumbed machine you should be able to feed by dropping the plumb line into a container containing the solution.
Can you use this same procedure to descale a Expobar office lever?
Hi RF, Thanks for the question. Yes you can.
Do you have a video or advice how to do this with a non-reservoir model? My Vetrano (by Quick Mill, also an E61 group head) is plumbed in on my countertop, and getting under the hood is a bit tedious since I have to disconnect the inlet/outlet fittings and move the machine to a work space. Thanks!
+CrushedAntz We run plumbed machines all the time by simply putting the water intake line into a jug of water. You could mix up your descale solution, put it in a jug and place the waterline in the jug.
+Whole Latte Love Thanks, I'll try that.
Why not just use distilled water? And not worry about scale.
Hi o, Seems like it would make sense. Problem is you want some minerals in the water. Pure distilled or RO water over time can cause corrosion of metal components in machines. That's why you never see mineral free water stored or transported in metal. Beyond that, mineral free water over-extracts coffee. One can avoid scale by properly treating water before use. Options included traditional sodium based softening solutions to reduce calcium or our preferred method using systems which exchange calcium in tap water with magnesium. Magnesium is a better flavor extractor than sodium. Check out options from BWT Water & More using this processs: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/bwt/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter
Excellent descaling video! Would you please make one for the Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica? Thanks!
Hi Steven, Thanks for the comment! Wish I could do a video on the Elektra - very cool machine - but I don't have one :(
So basically back flash and cleaning the boiler is the same, and also I can do it with one cleaning product, right? I don't have to use two products for back flash and one for boiler cleaning. What should I get for my OSCAR II?
In following this procedure on my Expobar Office Lever Plus, during the final rinsing stage, I'm only getting about 600 ml from my 1.5L boiler through my water spout each time. How big a problem is that?
Hi Scott, That may be fine. Keep in mind that a 1.5L boiler has some head space so does not actually contain 1.5L of water when full.
I would like to ask you please to know how to descale my Rocket R60V Double boiler machine using the DEZCAL powered from URNEX
Hi nader, Rocket Espresso recommends their dual boiler machines be descaled by a professional machine technician.
@@Wholelattelovepage I thought Rocket recommended to never descale any of theri machine. So it is only for their dual boilers like my R58, but any other HX from Rocket can be done at home by yourself with a Urnex Descale product? I did not know that! :o
I have a la scala A1. The issue is that tradly with HX machine you turn it off and pull the lever to dispense of the water in the HX - but the A1 has no lever...any help appreciated..Thank you.
Hi JS, You will need to run a liter or two of water from the group head to rinse the HX section of the boiler. To drain the larger steam generating section of the boiler, with the machine heated up, turn the machine off then open the hot water wand and let run until no more water is expelled. You can check rinsing by adding some baking soda to expelled rinse water. If it fizzes then acid is still present and you should rinse some more.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you
" You will need to run a liter or two of water from the group head to rinse the HX section of the boiler. " Do I achieve that by backflushing?
@@jjseandxcefree No just run brew water from the group without a portafilter in place.
Hi Morgan and Marc, Thanks for this great video, it makes me feel much better about doing this myself. I have watched a couple of videos that had me opening up the machine, unplugging overflow sensors, wrapping towels inside... all very suspect and not anything I want to do. I have a Bezzera Magica that I received on March 20, I use it a few times a day and we have hard water but we have a water softener so I use about 70% soft and 30% hard water (due to the finicky water sensors in the Magica). Do you think I am safe to use this method to descale now?
Thanks for all of your videos and advice, if it was not for living in Canada and duty/brokerage fees you would be my exclusive supplier. Stay safe, Mark
Hey Mark, You are welcome. Yes this method will work for the Magica. Just a heads up the Magica does have a boiler drain if you take the cover off but you do not have to use it when descaling unless desired. And another heads up: We now offer free shipping and no duty on all orders over $50 to Canada. Here's our Canadian site: wholelattelove.ca/
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the heads up. I am so excited about the Canadian website, that is fantastic news! I am on it now setting up an account.
All the best. Mark
Hi, can I ask an unrelated question? How good tasting is the espresso/latte produced in the Bezzerra Magica?
@@allayth3247 amazing, how good tasting the espresso will be relies on many other factors then just the machine. This machine is amazing and the joysticks on the hot water and steam wands are game changers!
Thanks for the video! My Solis Barista Gran Gusto came without a blind and it’s also not mentioned in the manual. Should I still get one and do what you guys did in the video or should I follow your instructions, just without the blind in the portafilter? Thanks a ton :)
Hi DD, Thanks for the question and you are welcome for the video. I'm not familiar with that machine so not 100% certain. If it has a heat exchange boiler process outlined in thsi video should do the trick.
@@Wholelattelovepage wow, wasn't expecting such a quick and detailed answer. Thanks a lot!
Thanks for the video. Is this process safe to use on the ECM Synchronica?
Hi GM, No this process is for machines with a heat exchange boiler. ECM Synchronika is a dual boiler and should be descaled by professional.
Marc
How should I do this with a Bezzera BZ 10? Bezzera does not provide any information on decalcification but advises against continuous decalcification !!! When using soft water, descaling is only necessary after several years.
Only external decalcification is recommended here. Please show how this is done ;-).... Are there tips and empirical values for this?
Greetings Christopher
Hi CK, Thanks for the question. Most all manufacturers advise against descaling prosumer level machines. This because if one decalcifies a neglected machine it can cause problems with chunks of scale dislodging in one area and plugging another. Then they call the manufacturer and complain. Machines with heat exchange boilers have less complex hydraulic systems than dual boiler machines so not nearly as risky for a home user to descale. The best course is to continuously prevent scale in the first place by filtering to reduce calcium while retaining a mineral level needed for taste and to prevent corrosion of metals. BWT has products like this for that purpose: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter
Unless you know your machine has seen hard water for a long time without descaling or is showing symptoms of scaling it's relatively low risk to descale.
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi thanks for the feedback. I only use Volvic water with a hardness of 3.4 odH, magnesium 12 mg in 1.5 liters and calcium 30 mg in 1.5 liters.
I last decalcified about 1.5 years ago.
Now I have learned from various sources that because of the risk of clogging with lime particles, corrosion damage and the heating coil can also break as a result.
Supposedly, this does not tolerate the descaler and should be removed and cleaned exclusively mechanically or replaced immediately.
Do you have any experience with this? Please also show the external decalcification.
Thank you for the many great videos about coffee. Thumbs up from me!! ;-)
Best regards
Christopher
Can I descale like this with Iberital IB7 2 group, boiler 11,5 lit
how often would you need to descale the profitec pro 700 if filter water is in use. (for Tank and Plum)
It depends on what kind of filter you are using. No difference based on tank or plumbed. Filters that remove minerals which cause scale buildup will reduce or eliminate descaling. But, very few filters remove all the minerals and if there are no minerals in brew water flavor will suffer. Here's a filter that removes scaling minerals and replaces them with magnesium to maintain flavor without causing scale. Use of this filter eliminates descaling: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package
@@Wholelattelovepage so if you still use the tank and you use a filter BWT pack like a drop in; correct me if i am wrong i will still need to descale just less of it and the BWT bestmax premium will take away so i don't need to descale because it replaces the minerals and replaces them with magnesium
Thanks so much for posting this.
Zach Barnhart You’re welcome!
Should this be done on s as n ECM Synchronika? I only use Brita filtered water and have heard you shouldn’t descale this machine.
Hi Beansy, Thanks for the question. You are correct most manufacturers recommend dual boiler machines like the Synchronika be descaled by a professional. So the best strategy is using water which does not cause scale in the first place. Unfortunately the Brita filters I'm aware of don't do anything to reduce minerals in water which cause scale. They usually do particle and carbon filtration. But perhaps your tap water is relatively soft to begin with and not likely to cause scale? If you know your water is not soft then we suggest a BWT filtering solution. BWT has 3 options ranging from an in line filter for plumbed machines, a filtering pitcher and in-reservoir pad filters. All 3 options use patented ion-exchange technology which replaces calcium in water with magnesium. This prevents scale when used as directed yet maintains a mineral level to prevent over-extraction and support good flavor. All 3 do carbon filtration as well to removes chlorination/chemicals. Check them out here:
BWT Bestmax Premium in-line filter system: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestmax-premium-filter-package-w-besthead-flex
BWT Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher
BWT Bestsave in-reservoir pad filter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-m-anti-scale-filter
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc. I wasn’t aware the Brita didn’t offer this sort of protection and will make the switch. The machine is a year old and afaik the water is soft here. Is it worth descaling?
What about the steam wand?
Hey tc, Descaling the wand? Steam wands typically are not susceptible to scale deposits. Steam carries little to no minerals which cause scale.
@@Wholelattelovepage yes had very low pressure. Did the descaling process and went ahead and ran the steamer with the solution and it eventually broke up the clog. Works great now
@@toiletclogger637 Happy it worked out for you. I wonder if it was milk in the wand?