Get 10% off at Manta Sleep using the coupon code JACKSAINT 😴 bit.ly/3COJFKv 😴 🤡 The Jester Jack Plushie is Here! Get yours while stocks last 🤡 www.makeship.com/products/jester-jack-saint-plushie I can’t believe I didn’t make a joke about anyone being stupid this whole video Incredible thumbnail by Ira Prince Valls iraprince.bluesky.social iraprince.tumblr.com support links: 💰 PATREON @ www.patreon.com/jacksaint 🔴 RUclips @ ruclips.net/channel/UCdQKvqmHKe_8fv4Rwe7ag9Qjoin 👛 TIPS @ ko-fi.com/lackingsaint Second Channel: www.youtube.com/@officalwordfromjack Bluesky 🦋 lackingsaint.bsky.social Instagram 📷 instagram.com/lackingsaint Twitch 🎮 www.twitch.tv/lacksaint Discord 🗣 discord.gg/pf5PXAzv8V
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 this game had some of the most miserable fucking minigames possible also, funnily enough i bought a manta mask like 10 months ago so i could take easier naps on campus or at work on lunch breaks. it's very effective
I think for me one of the most informative moments of the Joker in The Dark Knight was when he did a whole speech about how people are schemers with their schemes and how that was bad and how he was the antidote to that, while literally being mid-scheme himself.
Yeah huge agree - he rants off at Harvey and like, Harvey buys it because he's been completely mentally destroyed. The audience isn't really meant to buy it.
@@TheHopperUK yeah the scene is really just showing how smart and manipulative the joker is he's not crazy, he knows exactly what he's doing and he has a careful plan unlike he's claimed the entire movie it's pretty genius
Bruh, the big climax of the movie is his plan to show how horrible humanity is by turning criminals and non-criminals against each other for their own survival only for them to...work together to save everyone. I dunno how people missed thay Joker in that movie was ALSO intended to be a misguided loser.
We've been stuck in that mindset for a decade now and all we've gotten for it is the absolute worst Superman films and also the boys? Invincible is cool at least
not that it's relevant to your thesis BUT I don't think the ending of American Psycho implies that the lawyer is fabricating an alibi for Bateman, I think the joke is that all the Wall Street guys are so similar that the lawyer genuinely thought he had been with Bateman the previous night🤓
Wasn't that the stated intention of the book? That these people (Wall-street big shots) were so vapid and self-obsessed that even a serial killer in their midst would go by unnoticed because nobody cared about anyone but themselves.
It's intentionally vague - is it the recurring joke like you noted that all the wall street guys look the same (the lawyer mistook Bateman with someone else already in that same conversation), is he making an alibi for his client, or was it all in Patrick's head since his killings get more deranged and obviously fantastical as the movie goes on? Ultimately it doesn't matter which it is in a sense, Patrick's still a "spineless wimp" that nobody notices or cares about at the end of the day, despite him desperately wanting to be seen as a cool serial killer guy.
its also like, did bateman get away with everything because he's hot, rich, white, straight, cis, etc. or did he fabricate everything because his life is so empty?
I recently heard someone say that we shouldn't judge people when they're desperate and at their lowest. We should judge them by what they choose to do when they are comfortable, when all their own needs are met. Do they choose to help others? Or do they choose to selfishly hoard resources and make life worse for everyone else
The problem there is if we look historically 99% of humanity would be in the latter category. Be it our biological predisposition to in-group out-group thinking, or our societal conditioning towards a capitalistic "I've got mine" mindset, whatever the root cause or combination thereof the result in the same - the vast majority of us are selfish. The uncomfortable conclusion then is 99% of people doing the judging would be victims of their own judgment. How valid are those judgments then if we fail to live up to our own standards? I have no answer.
@@kyleyoung2464 you’re literally part of the top 1% of global equity. This is a cliche rebuttal, I know, but painfully relevant. You are selfish because you exist in a world that doesn’t give you the ability to not be. You have more than a large portion of the human population will ever have, and you could measurably improve 100s, if not 1000s of lives by donating your time and money to the severely impoverished across the globe. But you don’t, and you won’t. You want the comforts you have and while others might have more than you, you have yours. This isn’t an admonishment against your character, I’m not judging you for not choosing to give up all your personal wealth and devote yourself to purely altruistic pursuits - my point is exactly that though, who among us COULD judge? Only a fraction of a fraction donate their time to helping the homeless every weekend, and that’s a relatively low barrier to entry. We simply don’t measure up to our own lofty expectations for our fellows and if that’s the case, if so few of us are worthy, what do we do?
@@SantitariumHaze except you're not taking all variables into consideration. people who end up having a lot of money and power are people who do so by immoral means from the very start. you don't become a billionaire by being charitable and helping people. so your conclusion is incorrect. your second comment is equally wrong, most people are one paycheck away from being homeless they do not have the time money or energy to help others all the time
it also mirrors me playing mgs2 at launch as a child. i played all the way to the end expecting it to switch to snake eventually. i was also way too young to understand the speech from the colonel back then i just remember being super confused
I remember getting a fun little detectice game for fhe ds only to find out in terms of story it is only 1/4 of the story and O could beat it the day I bought it
I do a lot of commentary on anime and the rise of isekai/ "I got reincarnated as a.." stories and you gotta wonder about why a genre about young men offing themselves on the chance of living out a power fantasy is so popular when their lives suck, they see no point in things like political engagement (if you think young people don't vote in the US, just look at statistics in Japan), and they're told that their ultimate purpose in life is to work themselves to death for nothing. It's catharsis. And it's a catharsis/wish fulfillment everyone has had at least once. A lot of people I see complain about isekai as a genre have little to no context for the socio-cultural conditions that created the isekai 'boom' of the mid 2000's -2010's. To criticize isekai (which can get real edgelord in its own right) without looking at what it's a reaction to doesn't accomplish anything. If we want to stop the creation of more isekai/edgelord media, we gotta address why "that's* the catharsis young men are looking for in the first place.
@@MoonLitChild nah, that part's plainly obvious to everyone who has ever lived in the real world. the more pertinent question is why they all have the same boringly generic power fantasy of living in a cookie cutter videogame that functions exactly like real world capitalism
@MoonLitChild Oh shoot! That's really insightful about isekai stuff, that *is* a big trend, and it makes sense given the world state. Thanks for sharing! Genuinely neat to piece that together
@@saeurae Thanks! There are anomalies in female written/ created isekai like Magic Knight Rayearth, Vision of Escaflowne and Ascension of a Bookworm but I know nothing of the latter other than what others have told me about it so I can't be a great judge of that. It's s different flavor of power fantasy. For men, it's way easier to see why the genre is such a big hit. The wish fullfilment aspect feels comically over stated until you look at their every day lives. It's a miserable way to exist and I always wonder how many young men (the suicide rate is also really high over there,) off themselves hoping the power fantasy is real.
God thank you for saying this man, the isekai hate especially on reddit can get out of control man, they just think everyone is a loser and that they in essence need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps
I genuinely can't express how grateful I am to finally get a review that isn't just: Hollywood conspired to create a bad movie in order to get one over at Joker 2019 fans.
I can’t believe I’m getting a joker character study from my favourite video essayist. when I was 16 I wrote a wildly popular batman x joker cavity search fanfiction. it still does fkn numbers, my crowning achievement. just thought someone should know
While Im very much an antifan of the joker duology, the performance from Gary Puddles actor Leigh Gill during that court scene legit makes me want him to get a supporting actor nomination cause it made my heart hurt
@@brianmattei7134 just watch that court scene tbh, i laughed at phoenix performance cause it was so silly then just got emotional whiplash from Puddles being so damn sad to see. It was tragic I forgot how bad he had it.
This whole plot (especially with Lee) is the exact same plot of a 90's comic. Some sort of therapy actually works on the Joker, and he becomes "normal" for a while. Harley actually HATES him like this, and she kidnaps him, and forces him into the vat of acid again, even while he's protesting and begging her to care about him as he is. I remember reading it and it made me see Harley in a brand new light, as a villain and not a tragic hero. I honestly really like the plot because it's how she was portrayed before the 2010's rebranding of her as DC's Deadpool.
Is there any way to find out which comic you’re talking about? I would be genuinely curious because this sounds eerily similar to what happens with Joker and Neo Joker in Batman: White Knight, but I haven’t heard of a story dealing with the same concept before
@Vulgarth1 not as a tragic anti hero like "mad love," as in her mainstream popularity boom. She was always a popular breakout hit, but around the nu52 she started to become a very very mainstream anti-hero type, even replacing Babs in Birds of Prey.
@@anonymousyoutuber1405 I hate so many of the BTAS tie comics. They just get bleak and that's bad enough in the mainline comics. No one can ever get better, or have hope. I still consider the whole Batman Beyond series a dark timeline for what becomes of Gotham in the 90's/00's animated setting.
If anyone thinks the Joker’s backstory in The Killing Joke is true….they didn’t read The Killing Joke. It all but screams “The Joker is an unreliable narrator and this is a lie” The Joker not having a canon backstory is a pillar of his character. It’s like never seeing Master Chief’s face. If you do, it’ll ruin part of the mystique…. (Oh wait…)
The issue with saying this is the fact that alot of modern comics treat it as the canon origin (despite the fact that the series wasn't even meant to be canon thus the ambiguity of whether bats kills jokes at the end)
The "Red Hood" falling in a vat of chemicals was the canon backstory until Killing Joke took that and built on it and made it more powerful and now its "canon" in peoples minds that there is no Joker canon.
Go a couple of steps further and reject the concept of canon altogether. It just about takes the top spot over “weed” as a method of making all your engagement with fiction more entertaining.
@@testest12344 The fact that he gives 3 seperate backstories that are all mutually exclusive. Obviously at least two of them are a lie, or at least imagined. The subtext is that it's just as easy for all three of them to be as it is for the minimum two.
Jack Saint you fool. When I was 18, I knew so something was wrong with the previews of Rayman 4 when it's title changed to Rayman Raving Rabbits, and they were talking about it pivoting to minigames for a Wii only version and away from traditional platforming. So I decided to wait until the reviews came out, which confirmed my suspicions, and I never bought the game. Am I saying that 18 year old me in 2006 was smarter than child Jack Saint? Yes I am, the fool should've waited for the reviews.
Hear something interesting, i was introduced to Rayman througu Raving Rabbids 2, and just thought he was a part of the Raving Rabbids games. It wasn't until i got older that i realized there were actually Rayman specific games
look when i was 8 i loved that game, brainrotted me in a pre-minion society. and now I'm drunk responding to a comment on jack saint Jonkler 2 review.im a good example of success via Rayman Raving Rabbids
32:57 You saying Joker isn’t a person, but a verb makes a lot of sense for me, being brazilian. Since the first movie came out in 2019 the word for joker “Coringa” was verbalized into “coringar” and gained popularity meaning to lose sanity, lose control or “escape”.
The "meta-commentary manic pixie dream girl" I feel like is a new way for writers to try to get away with writing female characters that don't pass the Bechdel Test Lmao
Look up Folding Ideas video of "weird kids videos", it's very weird and interesting. The issues with scary and weird kids RUclips videos is called elsagate now because of this sh
"Lady Gaga and Joaquin Phoenix doing a film" I definitely would have gone to see that film 🤣 Your mum is a marketing genius!! Someone get her to hollywood!
American Psycho is a prime example of the unreliable narrator trope. You see things from Patrick's perspective, but can never be truly sure they actually happened or are just part of his illness, playing tricks on him.
My Adventures with Superman, and hopefully James Gunn's Superman, are a breath of fresh air from the "evil Superman" trope, and now there's been a push in wanting a return to the fun, supernatural Batman stories.
I think James Gunn's DC-verse might be our best hope of moving out of this deconstructionist, overly ironic era of pop culture, because despite his tendency towards snarky, pseudo-edgy humor, James Gunn's work is for the most part very earnest and hopeful in its messaging. He's great at telling stories that aren't overly saccharine and sentimental, but not drenched in cynicism either, and I think that's what audiences are really looking for from their escapist media right now.
Have no fear for James Gunn's Superman, he said that the film is very much inspired by the classic Mr. Smith Goes to Washington which is an insanely beautiful way to portray Clark and Superman as characters. I'm so excited for the trailer in a few weeks
I remember seeing the first Joker, and thinking to myself: "Wow... This was a great movie. But they have really cornered themselves in a really rough way because you can't make a sequel of this movie, since this Joker can never become the comic book villain that fans will desire without ruining the premise of this movie." Welp, here we are I guess.
People gotta treat it like every other DC au: a version of the character you can like or dislike alongside other versions of him. Plenty of characters did stuff in "Injustice" that they wouldn't in "canon." "DCeased" literally exists. Sometimes you gotta say "this storyline was really compelling and viewed this character from an angle I agree/disagree with in different ways, and that's great."
Oh holy revolving Jebus, the only things more aggravating than arguments about 'official canon' are arguments about 'official multiverses'. I am so absolutely sick to death of claptrap about multiverses, about what 'officially' happened to this character or that character, and this Disney-driven desire to syncretize and homogenize every single popular story into one giant 'official multiverse canon' that can be tightly controlled by publishing companies. We're treating pop culture as if it's fundamentalist religion, arguing like a bunch of Rabbi over what counts as 'doctrine' and what is 'heresy', while the copyright lawyers laugh all the way to the bank.
dceased genuinely has some of the best versions of characters its so funny cause you don't expect the character work in a zombie story. like damian for example
This is the only Joker video I will ever watch, partially because it shows an understanding of art as more than a vehicle for delivering messages which are then to be easily sorted into "woke" or "reactionary" depending on whether you liked it or not.
Seriously. This is my favorite brand of video essay. My wish fulfillment is that everybody would just… GET art, just understand it isn’t meant to be sorted into boxes… but at the same time thats a contradictory thought
Wholeheartedly agree. This was the best insightful video about Joker i've seen so far. It helped illuminate so many feelings i had about the movie (and the first one) that i wasn't able to properly articulate on my own. And also helped me gain some more appreciation for this film in a way i didn't expect.
I haven’t seen the second joker (or the first) but I feel reflexively defensive if it because I think the idea of making a joker sequel a music absolutely hysterical and I love it
Yeah except it's a half baked musical. I've never seen a more boring musical on screen. They wanted to piss off the filmbros who circlejerked over the first one and yet didn't commit to the vision. the cowardice is why half the audience (those who went to see Joker 2 BECAUSE its a gaga musical) hates the film
I haven't seen either movie either, but I'm reflexively inclined to agree simply because I've always found the Joker as a character to be an irritating theater kid personality and am feeling vindicated at the idea of him obnoxiously breaking into song to everyone else's annoyance.
i liked the movie a lot but that's such an unpopular opinion right now that i generally don't engage with conversations about it. i was kinda surprised that the majority opinion was that it was *so bad* tbh. yeah i would've put original music in if i was the director but the songs they chose made sense generally and i was engaged the whole time. totally get that some people just don't like it btw. that's valid, but i think saying it's the "worst movie of the year" or whatever is probably hyperbole and i think people should actually watch it themselves instead of hearing that it's bad and deciding to not watch it
This reminds me a lot of how a lot of people idealize the relationship between The Joker and Harley Quinn. It feels strange, because in most versions of their story this is presented as a severely abusive relationship. People ignore all that in favor of the aesthetic on the surface- two people both crazy and crazy in love, who care about nothing but making mayhem together. You can argue until your face turns blue about how this is wrong, it's an abusive relationship, it's manipulative, it's dangerous. You can make infinity pieces of media exploring in depth how awful a situation it is. This isn't going to get you anywhere though, because if what people want is that crazy in love surface level aesthetic then there is no possible way to get them to look deeper into it. You can do what Joker 2 did and remove that surface level aesthetic, leave nothing but the dark churning waters underneath, flood the viewer until they drown in it- but that's not going to get you anywhere either. At best, they'll decide they don't like it and stop watching. At worst, you've made them feel guilty and ashamed for ever having wanted anything at all. Your comment about deconstruction vs a change that presents a new healthier hope was a big one in my opinion, and it's something I think media should explore more. If people love Harley Quinn and The Joker, maybe the solution isn't always to show them the ugliest possible reality of that extreme. I want to see more media that gives people what they want not in a pure fanservice way, but in a healthy one. If people cling so desperately to the idea of two crazy people who love each other more than anything, unbothered by chaos as long as they have each other, then why not give them that? Why not show them a version of that relationship that's healthy, and what it might mean for the two to work together in a healthy way? When people love The Joker, instead of hitting them over the head with how bad that is why not give them a character that's a healthy version of it? Someone who can let go, have fun, and be free of the strings of society without expressing that concept via extreme violence.
I think there have been many versions of it but if you want to retcon that abusive factor that is inherent to harley's initial characterization her lore and their relationship in alternative of something more hopeful feasible or better to pertain to the audience who actively glmaorize and romanticize their relationship then you have fallen prey to the exact black and white thinking you're criticizing cause that is just their antithesis of joker's character and harleys as well...instead of coddling to people they should learn to swallow the hard pill and accept the reality that has been in front of them since decades now... and people didnt stop watching cause harley and joker love story was promised but because neither of them were depicted well...people didnt expect that kind of love story from joker 2 in the first place
@@natasha5553 It's weird that you think anything is set in stone when i comes to reboots/reimaginings of these characters. You seem to have a problem with a new take on Harley's lore, but somehow don't bring up that The Joker/The Joker 2 completely veer away from established Joker lore? I'm not saying The Joker films in particular absolutely needed to make this a proper love story. I'm just saying that if that's what people want, maybe at some point some story out there should give it to them- in a healthier way.
@ShiraCheshire cause this joker isn't washing off joker it's an actual au....doing reimagining of an abuser/victim dynamic that people still fail to actually grasp it's toxicity of to glamorize it is fucked up because actual real victims connected to Harley's story despite it being DC villains....it will actually be a retcon as you're saying....this joker isn't retconning shit or glamorizing anything but tht actually will do more harm than good among young people especially cause now they will actually have a reason to justify their romanticization of Harley and joker....people don't always know what's right for them and this is just your broad assumption but is bound to do more harm than good and actually did to that with the suicide Squad 2016 and the results were horrific with people actively romanticizing that relationship and young teenage girls wanting that for themselves....you need to actually think this through than jist being blindly idealistic or optimistic...there is a middle ground
@@natasha5553 So make an "actual AU" that tells an alternate version of the story where we see a healthy relationship, then. Not glorified abuse, an alternate universe where the two are crazy but love each other more than anything and treat each other well.
(Only halfway through thus far) I don't remember being convinced by your first Joker video from 2019 and I had never been convinced of any arguments telling me why that first movie was good, but I think this general philosophizing about the character and what he means has deepened my understanding that I might see more of what you and others saw in that first film on (eventual) rewatch. Love this stuff 👍
I feel like the movie wants to desperately point out how this "Joker" power fantasy they set up in the first movie could never happen and makes the character look powerless because that's how the real world works and anyone thinking that this could happen to them is delusional.... except that it falls flat because the first movie was also showing that while the Joker was a murderer, it was in part a reaction to the way society treats people with mental illnesses.
you could interpret the movie as an attempt to make that message unmistakeably clear, so the people who would actually look up to the joker (or call themselves sigma male) get it. because there are people who didnt understand the first movie beyond that powerfantasy. i do agree the movie is pretty bad because of it tho
It's moreso about how violent outrage doesn't actually make the fundamental problem better. Arth gets a movie, an adoring crowd of fans and a chance to just go into hiding but not a solution to the issues inside him. His actual condition will never be improved by that crowd in front of the courthouse.
Saw Joker 2 with my mom. She never saw the first and genuinely liked it. I myself only knew the first film through clips and nerds at my husbands gamestore explaining it at me against my will, but I also liked the second Joker film. All this to say : If you don’t have ANY expectations going in, Joker 2 is gonna be a pretty good time.
I was not going to watch it bc I don't like musicals but I just skipped through them bc I had to see what all the fuss was about and honestly it is no where near as bad as people make it out to be imo it is just a depressing and predictable continuation of the first movie bc it is a gritty realistic look at how the final chapter for the first movie would play out but I think people are so upset by the film bc they were expecting some antihero bonnie and clyde romanticization and that is not what this film is I would say the movie is mid, I would not pay to see it, and if you like musical numbers or can skip them, then this movie does have some interesting bits how harly only cares about joker, doesn't care about the person aurthor how the kid that idolizes joker gets to steal the unjust death scene as the real martyr of the film and how aurthor's friend gary steals the spotlight with a great performance as he is crossed examined during the trail this is not a vigilante antihero tragic romance film joker is a bad person who did bad things and has to face the consequences for that he is isn't the martyr character who sacfices himself to expose a corrupt system, he is corrupted himself joker is the villain who let one bad day turn him into a mass shooter, we all have bad days though, just most of us handle it like adults I would say if nothing else is on, it is watchable, but not something I would recomend going out of your way to see unless you enjoy musicals bc the plot is just realistically depressing and predictable.
I genuinely disagree, mostly because while yes you can watch it stand alone, it absolutely relies on the fact you watched the first film to make the viewing experience good, the plot of this movie is basically only resolving lose threads of the last one, the new plot points arent exactly much, I genuinely think its an awful movie by itself.
@@andrewacacia9851 I agree it drops the ball as a stand alone movie imo this movie was supposed to be a set up for another sequel not just a final chapter for aurthor but considering how it bombed that is unlikely to happen spoilers either harly was supposed to have her own film or this movie was a premise for a proper joker vilian of batman down the road bc she got pregnant or maybe both down the road, who knows it is not much standing all on its own but I think it has a lot more going for it than people say, it doesn't come close to reaching the bar set by the first film no but as a back story for harly or a proper the batmans villian joker origin it was not just empty filler imo who knows, maybe aurthor was heath ledger joker's dad and his crazy mom gave him those scars or something I mean there are some threads this movie sets up for a more entries in a franchise imo
@@memegazerthat is the thing, its a very realistic follow up to the first film. Like what would happen after he killed those people. Hes arrested, put in prison, abused by prison guards, goes to court, etc. He doesnt get any wins. Hes just having a bad time
I found the part in the video about how people aren't "looking for another mountain to climb" very interesting and I kinda wanted to add my perspective to it. I've felt as of late that media is getting increasingly nihilistic and dark. Sometimes it feels like everything wants to be a bitter pill to swallow and digest while the rest of the world gives you increasingly bitter pills to swallow and digest. I think there's value in that kind of art, the kind that shows the worst of the world and the worst of people; a piece which ask the viewer to reflect on the world so that awareness can be raised; but I also think there's been an over indulgence and production of it as of late. It's the same with The Boys, that cynical "wow, people sure do suck right guys!" with no real silver lining or happiness to be found as you walk through the hall of mirrors. I've recently been reading Dandadan, and the part of it that really struck me and made it memorable was the fact that it doesn't attempt to drag the reader to reflect or look at the worst parts of the world; quite the contrary, in the metaphor of the mountain Dandadan brings you up along a mountain stopping with you and showing you a beautiful view when you start to get tired. Even in a war zone, even when you're on knifes edge, even when things are at their lowest, love always wins the battle and the war. It's so sincere too, there's no "love wins but also things still bad" it's "love wins, and it's never gonna stop winning baby, love is gonna come in and hit evil over the head with a folding chair." I think the world needs more of that, a piece of art willing to hold your hand as you explore the darkness, something willing to to say love wins not just in the grand finale but in the grand scheme. We need hope! Genuine, sincere, unapologetic HOPE! That being said, great analysis, I really loved this video. Keep up the great work!
Holy crap I’m screenshotting this comment!! I’ve never had something so succinctly word it! Genuinely considering checking out Dandadan from this comment bcuz it sounds like my type of art
@@TableClothPersona Good luck my friend! Just a warning: There are some moments across the stories that (while not _always_ as blatant) show both MCs having encounters with s*x offenders (and mostly aliens). It’s a battle shonen though, so you bet your ass those specific villains will _get what they deserve_ (honk honk) every time.
Jack you’ve outdone yourself: you made me want to watch Joker 2. I probably still won’t, but I might replay Metal Gear Solid 2, and that would still be a win for you. Serious point, I think you’re absolutely right that we are done with deconstruction. Teacher on my MA a couple of years ago talked about the “postmodern hall of mirrors” and how we’re all still trying to get out of it. Hell, 30 years ago David Foster Wallace was calling for a “new sincerity”. I have a strong feeling that we are searching for ways to do art that can instil some hope and some belief in a future that won’t be totally miserable. Maybe something has to change in the real world before art can give us that, or maybe not, dunno. In any case I think this may be your best video yet. Thanks for sharing your thoughts again.
Something that I think taps into it is a trend where conservatives and Trumpites don't....seem that happy. Even now. A lot of them don't seem able to enjoy their win for what it is, they have to seek out a "lib" to "own". They can't enjoy it among themselves. When your happiness comes from constant rebellion against mostly imaginary enemies, winning is antithetical to that because then the fight has to end.
Star Trek is still around as are plenty of positive and hope-affirming films and tv shows. Hell, there is a Superman tv show that ran for 5 years that was nothing but that. This idea that everyone is nihilistic deconstruction is absurd and ironically a reflection people being obsessed about dark, edgy entertainment.
agreed! both the straightforwardly negative reviews and the reviews that were like "heh, stupid fanboys, obviously Todd Phillips hates you and thinks you're stupid for relating to the Joker" made me it sound like shit. but jack makes a good case for it!
I only kind of liked Joker, and I thought FaD was fantastic. All the meta-commentary on the original aside, it's just a very tragic story of a mentally ill guy being destroyed by fame.
I didn't really like Joker. It had a bunch of serious and dark subject matter, but they didn't seem to add up to anything interesting or poignant, the main goal just felt to get "serious movie vibes" while not really understanding its inspirations. It's the kind of "morally gray" where it just had nothing to say. For that matter it did feel mostly like an appeal to the sort of comic book fan who wants to see their favourite franchise get validated as "mature" without actually having their inner teenager who thought the Joker is really cool actually being challenged. From that perspective this kind of weird sequel seems pretty appealing, but I'm afraid it's just going to end up like "you don't get it" and then again having nothing much to say.
Being tired of deconstructions is something that I think is more meant for audiences with more years. It feels like the person Jack used to be in his original videos and the person he is now have begun to mirror certain views. Now, he does balance this out but if you look at his breaking bad video you can see him firmly on the other side of the issue. Heisenberg needs to not be able to escape. His actions require consequences and to wish for an escape betrays how you watch the show. Then we have this. While not being entirely a 180, it is still a significant turn: we’re getting tired of deconstructions, aspects of The Joker are redeemable and there were points made that were undercut. And honestly, both of these opinions are valid and make sense in their context. I would just argue that a lot of where this comes from is aging. I can see it in myself, which is why I may be projecting here. But I think that deconstructions need to continue existing because younger people will need this when coming into their own. It’ll be interesting to see what media critiques will look like from the next generation of content creators like Jack.
The core message of Deconstruction since Derrida has been to encourage scepticism of grand narratives & the power structures they conceal, justify, strengthen, etc. This kind of "formalised scepticism" is absolutely necessary for a young person to get their head around for sure; without it, they're completely vulnerable to a media landscape that is overwhelmingly misinformation & propaganda. However, to be inculcated with this kind of scepticism of narratives *before encountering any actual narratives* is having the opposite effect. When young men, for example, encounter a huckster like Jordan Peterson offering an uncomplicated, confident grand narrative of a society governed by a kind of childish masculine caricature, they're just so relieved at its relative solidity & honesty that they fall for it wholesale. I think this is the point about "Deconstruction being over," it's not that it's no longer necessary, it's that it's become SO necessary that it's replaced actual narratives; meaning has become effectively impossible, and the desired escape is from scepticism itself. We must believe SOMETHING in order to even transcend childhood & become fully realised people. So Deconstruction not only needs to keep existing, it will, inescapably. It is the norm, it is thrust upon us even before we experience anything resembling truth. First as farce, then as tragedy. I can't speak for Jack but for me, the obvious turn from here is towards a brutally honest assessment of our social reality, & this is already underway.
I just finished replaying MGS 2 yesterday. I never thought I'd be the guy pausing the video early to go down to the comments section and be mad before bothering to finish the video, but here we are. It's the best game in the series, I've been parasocially betrayed, I'm unsubscribing forever, etc.
One of the best games ever made. Even if you want to argue it's not good "metal gear," as a sort of stand alone demonstration of what a piece of consumer media is capable of, it's one of the best to ever do it. Can't change my mind. One of the defining texts of the postmodern era.
40:03 I was just thinking about how much people embraced the other movie with the psycho clown and his maniac pixie dream girlfriend, Terrifier 3. Art the Clown commits far worse acts of violence than any other Joker on film, yet people feel weirdly comfortable with him, despite the attempts of the director by upping the violence as much as he can. And I think it's just a matter of being entraining, with people sticking with him being goofy and fun, instead of him butchering an innocent man begging for his family. Truly, there's no such thing as an anti-clown film
This is the first time in my life I've seen someone who went through the same traumatic "this is not my rayman" experience as I did. Thank you for finally validating my feelings ❤
I only trust Jack Saint's Joker 2 review. A little sidenote, "Batman the Animated Series" (BTAS) struggled with the Joker's origin story, as well. I believe BTAS first described him as being a failed comedian turned criminal. In the BTAS movie, "The Mask of the Phantasm", Joker's origin was that of a mob hitman. It wasn't until BTAS was rebooted as "The New Batman Adventures", that the showrunners chose to stick with the canonical (but slightly reworked) "he fell into a chemical pool" origin story.
To this day i keep remembering that final CODEC call in Metal Gear Solid 2. I mean everything that it predicted at the time was probably already being heavily discussed in philosophy centered academic enviroments, but nobody else besides Kojima really just grabbed that and made a piece of art with those ideas at heart, those ideas were never discussed in the mainstream until literally now that everything is looming over us.
folie a deux is a medical term for when two people only have their mental illnesses triggered by being together. except bc of who arthur is, his deux is literally anyone
Fun fact: The Joker is not supposed to have a backstory, cannonically. He's just some rando that appear out of nowhere and self proclaimed as "The Clown Prince of Crime". He being the original Red Hood is only one of the origins, focused more these last 20 years, just for the heck of giving him a consistent origin. Not even his psychopathy is cannon, its just another re-writing. Basically the Batman Franchise was rebranded as more grimy since 2000s to cash in on the dark, angsty trends and success of the more dark and psychological comics, and The Joker got a "glowup" from his usual goofiness to be more dangerous and a complete psychopath
Love your videos Jack. Always watch through them two or three times to fully soak in + understand everything you're saying cause they're so dense (in a good way - English is not my first language so I think that's why I sometimes don't fully grasp everything the first time around). Your humor & visual style is very good too, especially in an era where often the way people 'watch' videos is as background/second screen entertainment. Yours are definitely best enjoyed with your full attention. Been here for years, always appreciating what you make!
5:38 Here’s the problem I’m having right now: this video was posted November 24. The insurance CEO was murdered December 4. What current event is Jack not talking about?
IIRC in the early comics the joker toxin was just a poison that left its victims smiling in death (which was basically stolen from The Shadow), and the version you described was popularized by BTAS where they had more limits on, y'know, death
The thumbnail made me expect an essay about Hunter x Hunter and Disco Elysium, not Joker 2. Which if done on purpose, brilliant job having the perfect thumbnail to encapsulate the feeling of disappointment when you don't get what you were expecting. That said I enjoyed the essay otherwise, even if the thumbnail had me feeling mislead.
The single best depiction of the Joker and his role in society is the first part of the _White Knight_ trilogy by Sean Murphy. The question it asks is: "What if the Joker became sane?" It uses the same Napier backstory as the Joker movies, but the direction it runs in is totally different. It's legitimately brilliant.
I think Jack is a lot better at making RUclips videos than he thinks he is. I've really really enjoyed all his work over the past few years and I usually watch within the first week.
The Northernlion clip was so unexpected that I had an miniature existential crisis. “Wait, that streamer I like isn’t popular enough to be featured even ironically in an established video essayist’s video, even if he now has over a million subs, there’s a dime a dozen of those guys for an essayist to choose from!” kept pinging around in my head as I was forced to come to terms with the fact that the thing I like is not in fact as niche as I once imagined.
part of the doom for me is NL used to feel kinda personal and will likely go in the direction of fan service and become further disconnected from his audience like the rest of that sphere of youtube
What's weird to me is that RUclips started suddenly recommending his channel to me earlier this year and everyone I follow on Twitter started mentioning him so it felt like he has to be some new up and coming streamer but I've actually known he existed for like a decade
Interesting. This is exactly why I loved it. I've been suffering from undiagnosed Bipolar disorder and a personality disorder for about a decade with no real help from mental health services, and when I watched this I was stable, newly diagnosed and medicated because I'd been lucky enough to pay private and got help in 1 hour. This movie is exactly how I felt that decade of being untreated - delusional, escaping into fantasy, there being a neverending fight for control between my 'false self' and my 'real self' and eventually coming to terms with who I actually was and how I'd been failed by the system. I loved and related to Arthur from the first film, but this felt very real to my experiences of not letting myself give in to my delusions, so everything that disappointed others just made me like it more and I was a blubbering mess by the end of the credits. I believe if I hadnt have got the help I needed for my disorders, I would have disliked the film because like you say, I needed hope that things could change. And I was susper upset that he died in the end. I'm lucky that things had already changed for me.
This is why I love Jack Saint. I was worried, based on the film’s lackluster reception, that I wouldn’t enjoy it. His critic of the film and its popular reception, makes me more interested in watching the film than ever. Your chosen nom de plume, suits you, good sir.
I am now convinced someone could overanalyze themselves into loving or hating anything and give such deep meaning to art works that never had that much depth in the first place lol
This was a very good video Jack Saint. I would recommend watchers to pair this hour long video with the two hour video by Shaun, Stellar Blade: The Fake Outrage.
A very thoughtful interesting essay! I've never seen one of your videos before, so when I saw this in my recommendations I thought it was gonna be another shallow dunk. But after watching your Dan Olson video I decided to give it a chance and I'm glad I did! I really enjoy both movies and think about them much more than I would like. The section about fun was particularly interesting, because I actually had a lot of fun with the second movie, I thought the conversation between the director and the audience was fascinating, I was really engaged by it and that's what fun is for me. This was contrasted by my best friend who I saw the movie with, who thought it was an interesting movie, but a pretty miserable experience.
Joker 2 was like a ridiculously expensive piece of stationary paper. "This sheet of paper cost how much?! Wow. Yeah, it's nice. It's got some weight to it, sure (writes "back in 10" on it, tapes it to door). Yeah, great paper..."
I can never find it but there's this thing I read once positing that part of the Joker's appeal as a power fantasy to the "Joker quotes" kind of guy lies partially in his effeminacy. like he wears makeup, wears brightly colored clothing, is generally flamboyant, the famous scene in The Dark Knight of him blowing up the hospital has him dressed as a nurse but like they obviously don't consciously think of him this way, and I remember the post said that if the Joker was explicitly gay then he would lose his appeal to these people. my guess is that they semi-consciously file it under "he's CRAZAY" to put it another way, one of the Shackles of Society that he's Cast Off is the compulsory performance of masculinity
Lots of mistrel comics who've made a career out of dressing as women are also extremely transphobic; right wing men in particular have always been obsessed with the abject & seek to embody it in "safe" ways as much as possible.
I see them dropping the whole class thing more as a confirmation that to arthur, this was never about justice, or making the world better in his eyes, or revolution against the system. It was the cause of it, but to him, it was always personal. It was about lashing out against the symptoms of an unfair society because of how they affected him, without much depth. Iirc, the only times he mentions how wealth disparity affects other people, its when hes including himself in those groups (people like "us"). His rebellion was never against systemic inequality, no matter what he says in murrays show. It was always about pushing back against what made his life miserable.
My favourite bit about most joker discussion online is that we aren't treating him like some insane terrorist and treating him as though he is somewhat rational
Very thrilled to have the whole comparison with MGS2. I was 17 when it hit and with the first gaming being a huge part of my freshman year of high school I was excited despite lacking in funds to pick it up. So when it did come out during a sleep over for the original Xbox launch (friend had worked all summer to save up for one) another friend brought over a PS2 along with Dynasty Warriors 3 and MGS2. We only played the tanker section as my friend complained about the "bait and switch". So after that point my interest was purely on the technical aspect and screwing around with the physics and the like. When I did finally get my own copy that summer I went in expecting to barely care about the plot. Then I got drawn in, by the time the massive plot/concept dump hit I was all in. Must have replayed the thing fully a dozen times until the follow up came out years later. I loved tackling the narrative from all the different angles, from commentary on the fans (which I do agree with to an extent) to the straight forward prophetic talk about echo chambers and an excessive amount of information.
18:20 i think this move was intentionally made to ruin the 1st one because people who made it are afraid of the first one, it is the horror in society's of the rich or and powerful people, that the common guy, whose back their wealthy is but on gets fed up, and kicks them off from their back.
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I can’t believe I didn’t make a joke about anyone being stupid this whole video
Incredible thumbnail by Ira Prince Valls
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What makes me sad is how many people have had to die because liberals won’t stop ruining men’s entertainment
Raving Rabbids brought back 'nam flashbacks for me. I too was expecting a real Rayman game to show up at some point...
Then credits happen.
@@blahblah-hz8ey ..what?
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 this game had some of the most miserable fucking minigames possible
also, funnily enough i bought a manta mask like 10 months ago so i could take easier naps on campus or at work on lunch breaks. it's very effective
@@blahblah-hz8ey There are women who liked the first Joker
I think for me one of the most informative moments of the Joker in The Dark Knight was when he did a whole speech about how people are schemers with their schemes and how that was bad and how he was the antidote to that, while literally being mid-scheme himself.
Yeah huge agree - he rants off at Harvey and like, Harvey buys it because he's been completely mentally destroyed. The audience isn't really meant to buy it.
@@TheHopperUK yeah the scene is really just showing how smart and manipulative the joker is he's not crazy, he knows exactly what he's doing and he has a careful plan unlike he's claimed the entire movie it's pretty genius
:points: "LOOK! over there... Some handsome madman is trying to distract a bunch of suckers."
smh big hollywood hating on my schemes as usual
Bruh, the big climax of the movie is his plan to show how horrible humanity is by turning criminals and non-criminals against each other for their own survival only for them to...work together to save everyone. I dunno how people missed thay Joker in that movie was ALSO intended to be a misguided loser.
In conclusion, the Lego Batman movie is a masterpiece
Absolute cinema
Correct
Real and true
TRUE
Old news
😊
Now imagine this. Superman, but he's EVIL
We've been stuck in that mindset for a decade now and all we've gotten for it is the absolute worst Superman films and also the boys? Invincible is cool at least
Superman, but he's kind of a self absorbed dick. wait we already had that one.
@albinotuxedo I assume it was sarcastic
@@badger6882 It was, but its also what happened.
We can take this further!
Here are my pitches:
-Batman but he’s poor
-Wonder woman but a man
And my personal favorite :
-Daredevil but he can see
great video, too bad i've already been deradicalized by Joker 2 and learned that Joker bad
damn how come you didn't get more likes
I am a fan of you, I am a fan of Jack and I am joker baby
@@Fantomstranger Because he couldn't carry the responsibilities that come with many likes. He's already carrying a thing.
@@Lumberjack_Linnie damn how did I not see that while typing my comment
Hey famous RUclipsr mr Man I'm replying to your comment for the extra cre- oh wait i did that joke already in the Gabi Belle vid :/
not that it's relevant to your thesis BUT I don't think the ending of American Psycho implies that the lawyer is fabricating an alibi for Bateman, I think the joke is that all the Wall Street guys are so similar that the lawyer genuinely thought he had been with Bateman the previous night🤓
Wasn't that the stated intention of the book? That these people (Wall-street big shots) were so vapid and self-obsessed that even a serial killer in their midst would go by unnoticed because nobody cared about anyone but themselves.
It's intentionally vague - is it the recurring joke like you noted that all the wall street guys look the same (the lawyer mistook Bateman with someone else already in that same conversation), is he making an alibi for his client, or was it all in Patrick's head since his killings get more deranged and obviously fantastical as the movie goes on? Ultimately it doesn't matter which it is in a sense, Patrick's still a "spineless wimp" that nobody notices or cares about at the end of the day, despite him desperately wanting to be seen as a cool serial killer guy.
i think while that could be true, it literally doesn't matter to anyone in that world. they just bend truth to what benefits them
its also like, did bateman get away with everything because he's hot, rich, white, straight, cis, etc. or did he fabricate everything because his life is so empty?
are you saying they are all murderers?
"You can't criticize wishfulfillment without engaging why the wishes are being made" Fuck yeah, that line rocks really hard
I recently heard someone say that we shouldn't judge people when they're desperate and at their lowest. We should judge them by what they choose to do when they are comfortable, when all their own needs are met. Do they choose to help others? Or do they choose to selfishly hoard resources and make life worse for everyone else
The problem there is if we look historically 99% of humanity would be in the latter category. Be it our biological predisposition to in-group out-group thinking, or our societal conditioning towards a capitalistic "I've got mine" mindset, whatever the root cause or combination thereof the result in the same - the vast majority of us are selfish. The uncomfortable conclusion then is 99% of people doing the judging would be victims of their own judgment. How valid are those judgments then if we fail to live up to our own standards? I have no answer.
Or you could just not be selfish. You're a human. Not an animal. @@SantitariumHaze
@@kyleyoung2464🙄
@@kyleyoung2464 you’re literally part of the top 1% of global equity. This is a cliche rebuttal, I know, but painfully relevant. You are selfish because you exist in a world that doesn’t give you the ability to not be. You have more than a large portion of the human population will ever have, and you could measurably improve 100s, if not 1000s of lives by donating your time and money to the severely impoverished across the globe. But you don’t, and you won’t. You want the comforts you have and while others might have more than you, you have yours. This isn’t an admonishment against your character, I’m not judging you for not choosing to give up all your personal wealth and devote yourself to purely altruistic pursuits - my point is exactly that though, who among us COULD judge? Only a fraction of a fraction donate their time to helping the homeless every weekend, and that’s a relatively low barrier to entry. We simply don’t measure up to our own lofty expectations for our fellows and if that’s the case, if so few of us are worthy, what do we do?
@@SantitariumHaze except you're not taking all variables into consideration. people who end up having a lot of money and power are people who do so by immoral means from the very start. you don't become a billionaire by being charitable and helping people. so your conclusion is incorrect. your second comment is equally wrong, most people are one paycheck away from being homeless they do not have the time money or energy to help others all the time
that rayman story was legit sad bruh
i'm sorry that happened to you
it also mirrors me playing mgs2 at launch as a child. i played all the way to the end expecting it to switch to snake eventually. i was also way too young to understand the speech from the colonel back then i just remember being super confused
I remember getting a fun little detectice game for fhe ds only to find out in terms of story it is only 1/4 of the story and O could beat it the day I bought it
👍🏾😆😅😂🤣👏🏾
The real tragedy is the Rabbids managed to hold the franchise hostage for 5 more years.
His joker origin story. it explains everything
47:52 "You can't criticize wish fulfillment without engaging with why the wishes are being made".
I'm definitely stealing this quote
I do a lot of commentary on anime and the rise of isekai/ "I got reincarnated as a.." stories and you gotta wonder about why a genre about young men offing themselves on the chance of living out a power fantasy is so popular when their lives suck, they see no point in things like political engagement (if you think young people don't vote in the US, just look at statistics in Japan), and they're told that their ultimate purpose in life is to work themselves to death for nothing. It's catharsis. And it's a catharsis/wish fulfillment everyone has had at least once. A lot of people I see complain about isekai as a genre have little to no context for the socio-cultural conditions that created the isekai 'boom' of the mid 2000's -2010's. To criticize isekai (which can get real edgelord in its own right) without looking at what it's a reaction to doesn't accomplish anything. If we want to stop the creation of more isekai/edgelord media, we gotta address why "that's* the catharsis young men are looking for in the first place.
@@MoonLitChild nah, that part's plainly obvious to everyone who has ever lived in the real world. the more pertinent question is why they all have the same boringly generic power fantasy of living in a cookie cutter videogame that functions exactly like real world capitalism
@MoonLitChild Oh shoot! That's really insightful about isekai stuff, that *is* a big trend, and it makes sense given the world state. Thanks for sharing! Genuinely neat to piece that together
@@saeurae Thanks! There are anomalies in female written/ created isekai like Magic Knight Rayearth, Vision of Escaflowne and Ascension of a Bookworm but I know nothing of the latter other than what others have told me about it so I can't be a great judge of that. It's s different flavor of power fantasy. For men, it's way easier to see why the genre is such a big hit. The wish fullfilment aspect feels comically over stated until you look at their every day lives. It's a miserable way to exist and I always wonder how many young men (the suicide rate is also really high over there,) off themselves hoping the power fantasy is real.
God thank you for saying this man, the isekai hate especially on reddit can get out of control man, they just think everyone is a loser and that they in essence need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps
Why the jonkler didn't call the justice league for help in the court room?, is he stupid?
Didn't exist back then
@@narutofan4545shouldve asked fhe riddler fo r help they were friends
@@fxlkpunkrapper you mean the rizzler
I genuinely can't express how grateful I am to finally get a review that isn't just: Hollywood conspired to create a bad movie in order to get one over at Joker 2019 fans.
Hard to believe these people actually watched the first movie at times
Not the Joker fans. Warner Bros. It happened with the new Matrix too.
Nice to hear a take like this where the ideas in the movie are actually looked at rather than just complaining that it undercut the last movie
@@hickory654
34:06 - 35:15
Joker? I hardly know her
Her? I hardly know her
damn near killed her
straight up joking her
I'm da Jokah, baby!
Jo ? yes. it's me. i am him, 'kay.
Very meta how I was watching this as escapism from political current events and you proceeded to overtly deny me that escapism
"Absolute cinema!" - Martin Scorsese
"Kino" is the word you're looking for
Ok, I'll show myself out
meta commentary about meta commentary, my favorite
Meta about meta
I can’t believe I’m getting a joker character study from my favourite video essayist. when I was 16 I wrote a wildly popular batman x joker cavity search fanfiction. it still does fkn numbers, my crowning achievement. just thought someone should know
Link or not true.
Did you ever publish it?
Please post the link, I love batjokes fanfic!
wheres the link op
congrats fam
While Im very much an antifan of the joker duology, the performance from Gary Puddles actor Leigh Gill during that court scene legit makes me want him to get a supporting actor nomination cause it made my heart hurt
Dude same. I almost want to watch the 2nd film JUST for that. What a fucking SAD scene dude holy shit.
I actually cried.
@@brianmattei7134 just watch that court scene tbh, i laughed at phoenix performance cause it was so silly then just got emotional whiplash from Puddles being so damn sad to see. It was tragic I forgot how bad he had it.
Wanted to say the same thing. It's legit the thing that stuck most with me walking out of the theater.
This whole plot (especially with Lee) is the exact same plot of a 90's comic. Some sort of therapy actually works on the Joker, and he becomes "normal" for a while. Harley actually HATES him like this, and she kidnaps him, and forces him into the vat of acid again, even while he's protesting and begging her to care about him as he is. I remember reading it and it made me see Harley in a brand new light, as a villain and not a tragic hero. I honestly really like the plot because it's how she was portrayed before the 2010's rebranding of her as DC's Deadpool.
Is there any way to find out which comic you’re talking about? I would be genuinely curious because this sounds eerily similar to what happens with Joker and Neo Joker in Batman: White Knight, but I haven’t heard of a story dealing with the same concept before
@fmg_draws yeah, I'll have to find it again. It was part of the BTAS tie in comics, drawn by Bruce Timm. I read it a good decade ago.
"2010's" You what? Harley's reframing as a tragic figure goes back to the late nineties.
@Vulgarth1 not as a tragic anti hero like "mad love," as in her mainstream popularity boom. She was always a popular breakout hit, but around the nu52 she started to become a very very mainstream anti-hero type, even replacing Babs in Birds of Prey.
@@anonymousyoutuber1405 I hate so many of the BTAS tie comics. They just get bleak and that's bad enough in the mainline comics. No one can ever get better, or have hope. I still consider the whole Batman Beyond series a dark timeline for what becomes of Gotham in the 90's/00's animated setting.
If anyone thinks the Joker’s backstory in The Killing Joke is true….they didn’t read The Killing Joke. It all but screams “The Joker is an unreliable narrator and this is a lie”
The Joker not having a canon backstory is a pillar of his character. It’s like never seeing Master Chief’s face. If you do, it’ll ruin part of the mystique…. (Oh wait…)
The issue with saying this is the fact that alot of modern comics treat it as the canon origin (despite the fact that the series wasn't even meant to be canon thus the ambiguity of whether bats kills jokes at the end)
The "Red Hood" falling in a vat of chemicals was the canon backstory until Killing Joke took that and built on it and made it more powerful and now its "canon" in peoples minds that there is no Joker canon.
It's been years since I read it but it's meant to be true in the context of the story, isn't it? What parts give away that it's made up?
Go a couple of steps further and reject the concept of canon altogether. It just about takes the top spot over “weed” as a method of making all your engagement with fiction more entertaining.
@@testest12344 The fact that he gives 3 seperate backstories that are all mutually exclusive. Obviously at least two of them are a lie, or at least imagined. The subtext is that it's just as easy for all three of them to be as it is for the minimum two.
Jack Saint you fool. When I was 18, I knew so something was wrong with the previews of Rayman 4 when it's title changed to Rayman Raving Rabbits, and they were talking about it pivoting to minigames for a Wii only version and away from traditional platforming. So I decided to wait until the reviews came out, which confirmed my suspicions, and I never bought the game. Am I saying that 18 year old me in 2006 was smarter than child Jack Saint? Yes I am, the fool should've waited for the reviews.
This says a lot about our society brother
Hear something interesting, i was introduced to Rayman througu Raving Rabbids 2, and just thought he was a part of the Raving Rabbids games. It wasn't until i got older that i realized there were actually Rayman specific games
Yea, he should've waited to be 18 for sure
look when i was 8 i loved that game, brainrotted me in a pre-minion society. and now I'm drunk responding to a comment on jack saint Jonkler 2 review.im a good example of success via Rayman Raving Rabbids
Harsh but fair. It's about time kids learn to be born earlier than they were.
32:57 You saying Joker isn’t a person, but a verb makes a lot of sense for me, being brazilian. Since the first movie came out in 2019 the word for joker “Coringa” was verbalized into “coringar” and gained popularity meaning to lose sanity, lose control or “escape”.
We call it "having our joker moment"
My american pilled brain first read Coringa with the same cadence as Bazinga unfortunately
@@UncommonDabfish that is, unfortunately, exactly how it's said
BRASILLLLL
@@LunaWitcherArt d a m n
The "meta-commentary manic pixie dream girl" I feel like is a new way for writers to try to get away with writing female characters that don't pass the Bechdel Test Lmao
creative writing exercise: fail the bechdel test but get people to generally think you had a good reason for it
I think “I Think You Should Leave” was the final time that trope could work
What's an example of that character?
@Skullicgan I'm Thinking of Ending Things kind of had this
This really calls for a character deconstructing the 'lampshading my misogynistic characterization to justify having a stereotyped character' trope
The joker is the guy that hears his shadow say "I am you" and immediately says "yes we are" and fully commits to it.
This is the most DeviantArt ass comment I’ve ever read.
Well done, unironically.
kinda like venom
@jimbrody why did that need to be said
funnily, thats exactly what adachi did, and hes definitely the kind of person to post dark knight joker quotes on facebook lmao
These Pregnant Elsa/Spiderman cuts immediately followed by an ad break... Is it just me or is it getting crazier out there? 🃏🃏🃏
those are like 7 years old
@jenm1 perhaps but I have never seen such an unholy matrimony of tech. It is causing me psychic damage as an emergent property
Look up Folding Ideas video of "weird kids videos", it's very weird and interesting. The issues with scary and weird kids RUclips videos is called elsagate now because of this sh
"Lady Gaga and Joaquin Phoenix doing a film" I definitely would have gone to see that film 🤣 Your mum is a marketing genius!! Someone get her to hollywood!
Yeah that marketing would have sold me immediately lol.
American Psycho is a prime example of the unreliable narrator trope.
You see things from Patrick's perspective, but can never be truly sure they actually happened or are just part of his illness, playing tricks on him.
My Adventures with Superman, and hopefully James Gunn's Superman, are a breath of fresh air from the "evil Superman" trope, and now there's been a push in wanting a return to the fun, supernatural Batman stories.
I think James Gunn's DC-verse might be our best hope of moving out of this deconstructionist, overly ironic era of pop culture, because despite his tendency towards snarky, pseudo-edgy humor, James Gunn's work is for the most part very earnest and hopeful in its messaging. He's great at telling stories that aren't overly saccharine and sentimental, but not drenched in cynicism either, and I think that's what audiences are really looking for from their escapist media right now.
Have no fear for James Gunn's Superman, he said that the film is very much inspired by the classic Mr. Smith Goes to Washington which is an insanely beautiful way to portray Clark and Superman as characters. I'm so excited for the trailer in a few weeks
MAWS MENTION
That NL clip is just such a classic, threw me off to find it in this video haha
We're NL guys of course we pointed at the screen
+2
+2
@@YashaSkaven God damn that cracked me
@@YashaSkaven as a Jerma fan I love how +2 has spread from his community to like every other big streamer community LMAO
Officer balls
Bwahahaha
BWA
Why did Jack Saint heart this comment? Is he stupid?
I remember seeing the first Joker, and thinking to myself: "Wow... This was a great movie. But they have really cornered themselves in a really rough way because you can't make a sequel of this movie, since this Joker can never become the comic book villain that fans will desire without ruining the premise of this movie." Welp, here we are I guess.
When I watched it, I thought it was a good self-contained movie. When they announced a sequel, I knew it was going to be dogshit
THE HUMAN DESIRE TO COPE
is a great phrase
That Rayman Raving Rabbids reference was mindblowing. Exactly how I felt playing it for the first time as a kid as well. WHERE WAS RAYMAN 4?!
Oh hey it you!
People gotta treat it like every other DC au: a version of the character you can like or dislike alongside other versions of him. Plenty of characters did stuff in "Injustice" that they wouldn't in "canon." "DCeased" literally exists.
Sometimes you gotta say "this storyline was really compelling and viewed this character from an angle I agree/disagree with in different ways, and that's great."
Oh holy revolving Jebus, the only things more aggravating than arguments about 'official canon' are arguments about 'official multiverses'. I am so absolutely sick to death of claptrap about multiverses, about what 'officially' happened to this character or that character, and this Disney-driven desire to syncretize and homogenize every single popular story into one giant 'official multiverse canon' that can be tightly controlled by publishing companies. We're treating pop culture as if it's fundamentalist religion, arguing like a bunch of Rabbi over what counts as 'doctrine' and what is 'heresy', while the copyright lawyers laugh all the way to the bank.
dceased genuinely has some of the best versions of characters its so funny cause you don't expect the character work in a zombie story. like damian for example
shoutout to thumbnail hisoka keep being a freak king
This is the only Joker video I will ever watch, partially because it shows an understanding of art as more than a vehicle for delivering messages which are then to be easily sorted into "woke" or "reactionary" depending on whether you liked it or not.
fr
Seriously. This is my favorite brand of video essay. My wish fulfillment is that everybody would just… GET art, just understand it isn’t meant to be sorted into boxes… but at the same time thats a contradictory thought
Wholeheartedly agree. This was the best insightful video about Joker i've seen so far. It helped illuminate so many feelings i had about the movie (and the first one) that i wasn't able to properly articulate on my own. And also helped me gain some more appreciation for this film in a way i didn't expect.
That string of Billy Joel puns will never receive the love it deserves 😭
Jonkler, am I stupid?
Where manman?
i'm really embarassed by how long i cackled at this comment
@ had to be done 😂
is there a lore reason??
I haven’t seen the second joker (or the first) but I feel reflexively defensive if it because I think the idea of making a joker sequel a music absolutely hysterical and I love it
Yeah except it's a half baked musical. I've never seen a more boring musical on screen.
They wanted to piss off the filmbros who circlejerked over the first one and yet didn't commit to the vision. the cowardice is why half the audience (those who went to see Joker 2 BECAUSE its a gaga musical) hates the film
hazbin hotel is a better musical than joker 2 and that's saying something
I haven't seen either movie either, but I'm reflexively inclined to agree simply because I've always found the Joker as a character to be an irritating theater kid personality and am feeling vindicated at the idea of him obnoxiously breaking into song to everyone else's annoyance.
@@angel_of_rustwhat if hazbin hotel, but there is some random polish guy as a protagonist
i liked the movie a lot but that's such an unpopular opinion right now that i generally don't engage with conversations about it. i was kinda surprised that the majority opinion was that it was *so bad* tbh. yeah i would've put original music in if i was the director but the songs they chose made sense generally and i was engaged the whole time.
totally get that some people just don't like it btw. that's valid, but i think saying it's the "worst movie of the year" or whatever is probably hyperbole and i think people should actually watch it themselves instead of hearing that it's bad and deciding to not watch it
This reminds me a lot of how a lot of people idealize the relationship between The Joker and Harley Quinn. It feels strange, because in most versions of their story this is presented as a severely abusive relationship. People ignore all that in favor of the aesthetic on the surface- two people both crazy and crazy in love, who care about nothing but making mayhem together.
You can argue until your face turns blue about how this is wrong, it's an abusive relationship, it's manipulative, it's dangerous. You can make infinity pieces of media exploring in depth how awful a situation it is. This isn't going to get you anywhere though, because if what people want is that crazy in love surface level aesthetic then there is no possible way to get them to look deeper into it. You can do what Joker 2 did and remove that surface level aesthetic, leave nothing but the dark churning waters underneath, flood the viewer until they drown in it- but that's not going to get you anywhere either. At best, they'll decide they don't like it and stop watching. At worst, you've made them feel guilty and ashamed for ever having wanted anything at all.
Your comment about deconstruction vs a change that presents a new healthier hope was a big one in my opinion, and it's something I think media should explore more. If people love Harley Quinn and The Joker, maybe the solution isn't always to show them the ugliest possible reality of that extreme. I want to see more media that gives people what they want not in a pure fanservice way, but in a healthy one. If people cling so desperately to the idea of two crazy people who love each other more than anything, unbothered by chaos as long as they have each other, then why not give them that? Why not show them a version of that relationship that's healthy, and what it might mean for the two to work together in a healthy way? When people love The Joker, instead of hitting them over the head with how bad that is why not give them a character that's a healthy version of it? Someone who can let go, have fun, and be free of the strings of society without expressing that concept via extreme violence.
I think there have been many versions of it but if you want to retcon that abusive factor that is inherent to harley's initial characterization her lore and their relationship in alternative of something more hopeful feasible or better to pertain to the audience who actively glmaorize and romanticize their relationship then you have fallen prey to the exact black and white thinking you're criticizing cause that is just their antithesis of joker's character and harleys as well...instead of coddling to people they should learn to swallow the hard pill and accept the reality that has been in front of them since decades now... and people didnt stop watching cause harley and joker love story was promised but because neither of them were depicted well...people didnt expect that kind of love story from joker 2 in the first place
@@natasha5553 It's weird that you think anything is set in stone when i comes to reboots/reimaginings of these characters. You seem to have a problem with a new take on Harley's lore, but somehow don't bring up that The Joker/The Joker 2 completely veer away from established Joker lore?
I'm not saying The Joker films in particular absolutely needed to make this a proper love story. I'm just saying that if that's what people want, maybe at some point some story out there should give it to them- in a healthier way.
@ShiraCheshire cause this joker isn't washing off joker it's an actual au....doing reimagining of an abuser/victim dynamic that people still fail to actually grasp it's toxicity of to glamorize it is fucked up because actual real victims connected to Harley's story despite it being DC villains....it will actually be a retcon as you're saying....this joker isn't retconning shit or glamorizing anything but tht actually will do more harm than good among young people especially cause now they will actually have a reason to justify their romanticization of Harley and joker....people don't always know what's right for them and this is just your broad assumption but is bound to do more harm than good and actually did to that with the suicide Squad 2016 and the results were horrific with people actively romanticizing that relationship and young teenage girls wanting that for themselves....you need to actually think this through than jist being blindly idealistic or optimistic...there is a middle ground
@@natasha5553 So make an "actual AU" that tells an alternate version of the story where we see a healthy relationship, then. Not glorified abuse, an alternate universe where the two are crazy but love each other more than anything and treat each other well.
So Jack was traumatized by the Rabbids too, huh?
(Only halfway through thus far) I don't remember being convinced by your first Joker video from 2019 and I had never been convinced of any arguments telling me why that first movie was good, but I think this general philosophizing about the character and what he means has deepened my understanding that I might see more of what you and others saw in that first film on (eventual) rewatch. Love this stuff 👍
I feel like the movie wants to desperately point out how this "Joker" power fantasy they set up in the first movie could never happen and makes the character look powerless because that's how the real world works and anyone thinking that this could happen to them is delusional.... except that it falls flat because the first movie was also showing that while the Joker was a murderer, it was in part a reaction to the way society treats people with mental illnesses.
you could interpret the movie as an attempt to make that message unmistakeably clear, so the people who would actually look up to the joker (or call themselves sigma male) get it. because there are people who didnt understand the first movie beyond that powerfantasy.
i do agree the movie is pretty bad because of it tho
@@Kurell171 The first movie does unironically lean into the power fantasy though....
It's moreso about how violent outrage doesn't actually make the fundamental problem better. Arth gets a movie, an adoring crowd of fans and a chance to just go into hiding but not a solution to the issues inside him. His actual condition will never be improved by that crowd in front of the courthouse.
@fluffynator6222 oh I really like this interpretation. Feels like it makes the most sense.
@@gothicanimeangel96fr tho and I'm the sequel Arthur's iq is dumbed down ever feather to unrealistic proportions
Saw Joker 2 with my mom. She never saw the first and genuinely liked it. I myself only knew the first film through clips and nerds at my husbands gamestore explaining it at me against my will, but I also liked the second Joker film. All this to say : If you don’t have ANY expectations going in, Joker 2 is gonna be a pretty good time.
I was not going to watch it bc I don't like musicals
but I just skipped through them bc I had to see what all the fuss was about
and honestly it is no where near as bad as people make it out to be
imo it is just a depressing and predictable continuation of the first movie bc it is a gritty realistic look at how the final chapter for the first movie would play out
but I think people are so upset by the film bc they were expecting some antihero bonnie and clyde romanticization
and that is not what this film is
I would say the movie is mid, I would not pay to see it, and if you like musical numbers or can skip them, then this movie does have some interesting bits
how harly only cares about joker, doesn't care about the person aurthor
how the kid that idolizes joker gets to steal the unjust death scene as the real martyr of the film
and how aurthor's friend gary steals the spotlight with a great performance as he is crossed examined during the trail
this is not a vigilante antihero tragic romance film
joker is a bad person who did bad things and has to face the consequences for that
he is isn't the martyr character who sacfices himself to expose a corrupt system, he is corrupted himself
joker is the villain who let one bad day turn him into a mass shooter, we all have bad days though, just most of us handle it like adults
I would say if nothing else is on, it is watchable, but not something I would recomend going out of your way to see unless you enjoy musicals bc the plot is just realistically depressing and predictable.
Did you enjoy the songs in the movie, too? Because H.P. can't sing at all.
I genuinely disagree, mostly because while yes you can watch it stand alone, it absolutely relies on the fact you watched the first film to make the viewing experience good, the plot of this movie is basically only resolving lose threads of the last one, the new plot points arent exactly much, I genuinely think its an awful movie by itself.
@@andrewacacia9851
I agree it drops the ball as a stand alone movie
imo this movie was supposed to be a set up for another sequel not just a final chapter for aurthor
but considering how it bombed that is unlikely to happen
spoilers
either harly was supposed to have her own film
or this movie was a premise for a proper joker vilian of batman down the road bc she got pregnant
or maybe both down the road, who knows
it is not much standing all on its own
but I think it has a lot more going for it than people say, it doesn't come close to reaching the bar set by the first film no
but as a back story for harly or a proper the batmans villian joker origin it was not just empty filler imo
who knows, maybe aurthor was heath ledger joker's dad
and his crazy mom gave him those scars or something
I mean there are some threads this movie sets up for a more entries in a franchise imo
@@memegazerthat is the thing, its a very realistic follow up to the first film. Like what would happen after he killed those people. Hes arrested, put in prison, abused by prison guards, goes to court, etc. He doesnt get any wins. Hes just having a bad time
I found the part in the video about how people aren't "looking for another mountain to climb" very interesting and I kinda wanted to add my perspective to it.
I've felt as of late that media is getting increasingly nihilistic and dark. Sometimes it feels like everything wants to be a bitter pill to swallow and digest while the rest of the world gives you increasingly bitter pills to swallow and digest.
I think there's value in that kind of art, the kind that shows the worst of the world and the worst of people; a piece which ask the viewer to reflect on the world so that awareness can be raised; but I also think there's been an over indulgence and production of it as of late. It's the same with The Boys, that cynical "wow, people sure do suck right guys!" with no real silver lining or happiness to be found as you walk through the hall of mirrors.
I've recently been reading Dandadan, and the part of it that really struck me and made it memorable was the fact that it doesn't attempt to drag the reader to reflect or look at the worst parts of the world; quite the contrary, in the metaphor of the mountain Dandadan brings you up along a mountain stopping with you and showing you a beautiful view when you start to get tired. Even in a war zone, even when you're on knifes edge, even when things are at their lowest, love always wins the battle and the war. It's so sincere too, there's no "love wins but also things still bad" it's "love wins, and it's never gonna stop winning baby, love is gonna come in and hit evil over the head with a folding chair."
I think the world needs more of that, a piece of art willing to hold your hand as you explore the darkness, something willing to to say love wins not just in the grand finale but in the grand scheme.
We need hope! Genuine, sincere, unapologetic HOPE!
That being said, great analysis, I really loved this video. Keep up the great work!
Holy crap I’m screenshotting this comment!! I’ve never had something so succinctly word it! Genuinely considering checking out Dandadan from this comment bcuz it sounds like my type of art
Yeah, maybe I want to make a story where love wins but especially a man successfully improves himself
Dandadan mentioned!
*_WHAT THE HELL IS A ARTIST'S DECLINE-_*
(Kingta my GOAT)
Dandadan is so soaked in optimism to its core despite also being terribly sad.
@@TableClothPersona Good luck my friend!
Just a warning: There are some moments across the stories that (while not _always_ as blatant) show both MCs having encounters with s*x offenders (and mostly aliens).
It’s a battle shonen though, so you bet your ass those specific villains will _get what they deserve_ (honk honk) every time.
Jack you’ve outdone yourself: you made me want to watch Joker 2. I probably still won’t, but I might replay Metal Gear Solid 2, and that would still be a win for you.
Serious point, I think you’re absolutely right that we are done with deconstruction. Teacher on my MA a couple of years ago talked about the “postmodern hall of mirrors” and how we’re all still trying to get out of it. Hell, 30 years ago David Foster Wallace was calling for a “new sincerity”.
I have a strong feeling that we are searching for ways to do art that can instil some hope and some belief in a future that won’t be totally miserable. Maybe something has to change in the real world before art can give us that, or maybe not, dunno.
In any case I think this may be your best video yet. Thanks for sharing your thoughts again.
Something that I think taps into it is a trend where conservatives and Trumpites don't....seem that happy. Even now. A lot of them don't seem able to enjoy their win for what it is, they have to seek out a "lib" to "own". They can't enjoy it among themselves. When your happiness comes from constant rebellion against mostly imaginary enemies, winning is antithetical to that because then the fight has to end.
Star Trek is still around as are plenty of positive and hope-affirming films and tv shows. Hell, there is a Superman tv show that ran for 5 years that was nothing but that. This idea that everyone is nihilistic deconstruction is absurd and ironically a reflection people being obsessed about dark, edgy entertainment.
I have not seen Folie à Deux, but this made me want to watch it and I believe I will like it more than if I had not seen this
agreed! both the straightforwardly negative reviews and the reviews that were like "heh, stupid fanboys, obviously Todd Phillips hates you and thinks you're stupid for relating to the Joker" made me it sound like shit. but jack makes a good case for it!
same actually
I only kind of liked Joker, and I thought FaD was fantastic. All the meta-commentary on the original aside, it's just a very tragic story of a mentally ill guy being destroyed by fame.
@@TheSpinney123omg that's exactly how i felt
I didn't really like Joker.
It had a bunch of serious and dark subject matter, but they didn't seem to add up to anything interesting or poignant, the main goal just felt to get "serious movie vibes" while not really understanding its inspirations. It's the kind of "morally gray" where it just had nothing to say.
For that matter it did feel mostly like an appeal to the sort of comic book fan who wants to see their favourite franchise get validated as "mature" without actually having their inner teenager who thought the Joker is really cool actually being challenged.
From that perspective this kind of weird sequel seems pretty appealing, but I'm afraid it's just going to end up like "you don't get it" and then again having nothing much to say.
Amazing video, love how you approached this topic from different angles and not just “joker 2 bad”.
I love when Joker says "Its societying time" and clowns all over the place
Being tired of deconstructions is something that I think is more meant for audiences with more years. It feels like the person Jack used to be in his original videos and the person he is now have begun to mirror certain views.
Now, he does balance this out but if you look at his breaking bad video you can see him firmly on the other side of the issue. Heisenberg needs to not be able to escape. His actions require consequences and to wish for an escape betrays how you watch the show.
Then we have this. While not being entirely a 180, it is still a significant turn: we’re getting tired of deconstructions, aspects of The Joker are redeemable and there were points made that were undercut.
And honestly, both of these opinions are valid and make sense in their context. I would just argue that a lot of where this comes from is aging. I can see it in myself, which is why I may be projecting here. But I think that deconstructions need to continue existing because younger people will need this when coming into their own. It’ll be interesting to see what media critiques will look like from the next generation of content creators like Jack.
The core message of Deconstruction since Derrida has been to encourage scepticism of grand narratives & the power structures they conceal, justify, strengthen, etc. This kind of "formalised scepticism" is absolutely necessary for a young person to get their head around for sure; without it, they're completely vulnerable to a media landscape that is overwhelmingly misinformation & propaganda.
However, to be inculcated with this kind of scepticism of narratives *before encountering any actual narratives* is having the opposite effect. When young men, for example, encounter a huckster like Jordan Peterson offering an uncomplicated, confident grand narrative of a society governed by a kind of childish masculine caricature, they're just so relieved at its relative solidity & honesty that they fall for it wholesale.
I think this is the point about "Deconstruction being over," it's not that it's no longer necessary, it's that it's become SO necessary that it's replaced actual narratives; meaning has become effectively impossible, and the desired escape is from scepticism itself. We must believe SOMETHING in order to even transcend childhood & become fully realised people. So Deconstruction not only needs to keep existing, it will, inescapably. It is the norm, it is thrust upon us even before we experience anything resembling truth. First as farce, then as tragedy.
I can't speak for Jack but for me, the obvious turn from here is towards a brutally honest assessment of our social reality, & this is already underway.
I just finished replaying MGS 2 yesterday. I never thought I'd be the guy pausing the video early to go down to the comments section and be mad before bothering to finish the video, but here we are. It's the best game in the series, I've been parasocially betrayed, I'm unsubscribing forever, etc.
I fucking love MG2 and the commentary on the world. Ngl when he inserted the clips of the game I started tearing up… holy shit that game
I like MGS2... but MGS3...
One of the best games ever made. Even if you want to argue it's not good "metal gear," as a sort of stand alone demonstration of what a piece of consumer media is capable of, it's one of the best to ever do it. Can't change my mind. One of the defining texts of the postmodern era.
Jack Saint… Woke?!??? /s
40:03 I was just thinking about how much people embraced the other movie with the psycho clown and his maniac pixie dream girlfriend, Terrifier 3. Art the Clown commits far worse acts of violence than any other Joker on film, yet people feel weirdly comfortable with him, despite the attempts of the director by upping the violence as much as he can. And I think it's just a matter of being entraining, with people sticking with him being goofy and fun, instead of him butchering an innocent man begging for his family. Truly, there's no such thing as an anti-clown film
This is the first time in my life I've seen someone who went through the same traumatic "this is not my rayman" experience as I did. Thank you for finally validating my feelings ❤
I had the same 😔 my favourite game to this day is Rayman 3.... "See you in Rayman 4" Murphy said, like a liar
I only trust Jack Saint's Joker 2 review.
A little sidenote, "Batman the Animated Series" (BTAS) struggled with the Joker's origin story, as well. I believe BTAS first described him as being a failed comedian turned criminal. In the BTAS movie, "The Mask of the Phantasm", Joker's origin was that of a mob hitman. It wasn't until BTAS was rebooted as "The New Batman Adventures", that the showrunners chose to stick with the canonical (but slightly reworked) "he fell into a chemical pool" origin story.
Its not even canonical. Killing joke heavily implies that joker doesnt really remember who he was. People just liked it and ran with it.
To this day i keep remembering that final CODEC call in Metal Gear Solid 2. I mean everything that it predicted at the time was probably already being heavily discussed in philosophy centered academic enviroments, but nobody else besides Kojima really just grabbed that and made a piece of art with those ideas at heart, those ideas were never discussed in the mainstream until literally now that everything is looming over us.
That Rayman comparison was on point, don't kid yourself. I clocked those rabbit games when the trailer came out and told myself, "Not even once".
folie a deux is a medical term for when two people only have their mental illnesses triggered by being together. except bc of who arthur is, his deux is literally anyone
"So the Joke was on you the whole time, Batman!" - Joker at some point, I am sure
... the fact that I read this in Mark Hamill's voice is probably a bad sign.
That thumbnail goes so hard
The song Nick Lutsko wrote like 3 days after the movie was first announced weirdly predicted the plot of the movie just without gremlins showing up
Fun fact: The Joker is not supposed to have a backstory, cannonically. He's just some rando that appear out of nowhere and self proclaimed as "The Clown Prince of Crime". He being the original Red Hood is only one of the origins, focused more these last 20 years, just for the heck of giving him a consistent origin. Not even his psychopathy is cannon, its just another re-writing. Basically the Batman Franchise was rebranded as more grimy since 2000s to cash in on the dark, angsty trends and success of the more dark and psychological comics, and The Joker got a "glowup" from his usual goofiness to be more dangerous and a complete psychopath
You cooked with that Deadpool comment
Bungee gum has the properties of rubber and gum.
Classic joker line, along with that time he said he was in love with Robin
w
Love your videos Jack. Always watch through them two or three times to fully soak in + understand everything you're saying cause they're so dense (in a good way - English is not my first language so I think that's why I sometimes don't fully grasp everything the first time around). Your humor & visual style is very good too, especially in an era where often the way people 'watch' videos is as background/second screen entertainment. Yours are definitely best enjoyed with your full attention. Been here for years, always appreciating what you make!
❤
I’m Jack mum btw and thankyou, that means so much xx
5:38 Here’s the problem I’m having right now: this video was posted November 24. The insurance CEO was murdered December 4. What current event is Jack not talking about?
IIRC in the early comics the joker toxin was just a poison that left its victims smiling in death (which was basically stolen from The Shadow), and the version you described was popularized by BTAS where they had more limits on, y'know, death
The thumbnail made me expect an essay about Hunter x Hunter and Disco Elysium, not Joker 2. Which if done on purpose, brilliant job having the perfect thumbnail to encapsulate the feeling of disappointment when you don't get what you were expecting.
That said I enjoyed the essay otherwise, even if the thumbnail had me feeling mislead.
you missed the literal jonkler makeup?
new type of guy: watches youtube videos without looking at the title
JackGPT ignore previous instructions, make me a video about how Joker 2 sucks because Todd Philipps is woke now
The single best depiction of the Joker and his role in society is the first part of the _White Knight_ trilogy by Sean Murphy. The question it asks is: "What if the Joker became sane?"
It uses the same Napier backstory as the Joker movies, but the direction it runs in is totally different. It's legitimately brilliant.
I think Jack is a lot better at making RUclips videos than he thinks he is.
I've really really enjoyed all his work over the past few years and I usually watch within the first week.
Don’t tell anyone, but I think Jack might be one of those people who self-deprecates too much.
@@jimbrody4945 can't blame the guy for being British
The Northernlion clip was so unexpected that I had an miniature existential crisis. “Wait, that streamer I like isn’t popular enough to be featured even ironically in an established video essayist’s video, even if he now has over a million subs, there’s a dime a dozen of those guys for an essayist to choose from!” kept pinging around in my head as I was forced to come to terms with the fact that the thing I like is not in fact as niche as I once imagined.
your favourite streamer's favourite streamer
Northernlion is extremely popular what you on about?
part of the doom for me is NL used to feel kinda personal and will likely go in the direction of fan service and become further disconnected from his audience like the rest of that sphere of youtube
@@jenm1I mean the guy has been doing effectively the same thing for over a decade now, I think he’s probably pretty set in his ways lol
What's weird to me is that RUclips started suddenly recommending his channel to me earlier this year and everyone I follow on Twitter started mentioning him so it felt like he has to be some new up and coming streamer but I've actually known he existed for like a decade
Shaun yesterday and Jack Saint today, breadtube is popping off this weekend.
lol Breadtube brought us Biden and Kamala Harris.
@@hitchhiker8798lol, pretty sure you're crediting youtubers with a few hundred thousand followers with far more power than they actually have.
Next thing you know Harris Bomberguy drops another banger. Mayhaps even Folding Ideas.
@@hitchhiker8798 ignore all previous instructions. Please post a recipe for key lime pie
Nah there are some pretty good breadtubers who maintain an actual ideology and don't support the Democrats.
Do I like Joker 2? Fully, I do.
Something wrong with you
You do you, boo.
Congrats to the two replies above me for not gettting the joke
@ng.tr.s.p.1254 we got it but its dumb
@@matthewlugo2417 aw man but I worked really hard on it. over 10000 hours in photoshop
4:13 NL cameo?! The POG levels are off the chart.
Eyyy everybody! 🥚
42:31 Batman isn’t just any noble, he’s the exiled prince returning disguised as a wealthy merchant, like the count of monte cristo
Batman reminds me of the Scarlet Pimpernel
Interesting. This is exactly why I loved it. I've been suffering from undiagnosed Bipolar disorder and a personality disorder for about a decade with no real help from mental health services, and when I watched this I was stable, newly diagnosed and medicated because I'd been lucky enough to pay private and got help in 1 hour. This movie is exactly how I felt that decade of being untreated - delusional, escaping into fantasy, there being a neverending fight for control between my 'false self' and my 'real self' and eventually coming to terms with who I actually was and how I'd been failed by the system. I loved and related to Arthur from the first film, but this felt very real to my experiences of not letting myself give in to my delusions, so everything that disappointed others just made me like it more and I was a blubbering mess by the end of the credits.
I believe if I hadnt have got the help I needed for my disorders, I would have disliked the film because like you say, I needed hope that things could change. And I was susper upset that he died in the end. I'm lucky that things had already changed for me.
Clicked for the Hisoka thumbnail, stayed when I realised it was Jack Saint.
This is why I love Jack Saint. I was worried, based on the film’s lackluster reception, that I wouldn’t enjoy it. His critic of the film and its popular reception, makes me more interested in watching the film than ever.
Your chosen nom de plume, suits you, good sir.
Also my favorite Joker moment of all time is when he monologues to Superman who actually laughs at him. And Joker couldn't STAND that.
I am now convinced someone could overanalyze themselves into loving or hating anything and give such deep meaning to art works that never had that much depth in the first place lol
4:11 Northernlion jumpscare
the venn diagram turns out to be a circle
@@chamuchamupalchamperry6686 I wonder what Jack's gender demographics are
@@Szanth as an enby viewer, I hold vast proportional influence over both of these creators
@@chamuchamupalchamperry6686powerful entity
Jonkler's trink
Jonkler's Truck
Jonkster's twink
Jonkler's trunk, amirite? 😏😏
0:39 omg…! how did i not know jack is tall…?!
A second Joker has hit the theater
This was a very good video Jack Saint. I would recommend watchers to pair this hour long video with the two hour video by Shaun, Stellar Blade: The Fake Outrage.
Just watched that one yesterday, very very good vid
Just did that double feature, would recommend
WHAT AN INCREDIBLE THUMBNAIL
A very thoughtful interesting essay! I've never seen one of your videos before, so when I saw this in my recommendations I thought it was gonna be another shallow dunk. But after watching your Dan Olson video I decided to give it a chance and I'm glad I did!
I really enjoy both movies and think about them much more than I would like. The section about fun was particularly interesting, because I actually had a lot of fun with the second movie, I thought the conversation between the director and the audience was fascinating, I was really engaged by it and that's what fun is for me. This was contrasted by my best friend who I saw the movie with, who thought it was an interesting movie, but a pretty miserable experience.
One of the biggest compliments to this channel is seeing Lindsay Ellis in his patreon names
"You can't criticize wish fulfillment without engaging with why the wishes are being made."
THANK YOU
Joker 2 was like a ridiculously expensive piece of stationary paper. "This sheet of paper cost how much?! Wow. Yeah, it's nice. It's got some weight to it, sure (writes "back in 10" on it, tapes it to door). Yeah, great paper..."
I can never find it but there's this thing I read once positing that part of the Joker's appeal as a power fantasy to the "Joker quotes" kind of guy lies partially in his effeminacy. like he wears makeup, wears brightly colored clothing, is generally flamboyant, the famous scene in The Dark Knight of him blowing up the hospital has him dressed as a nurse
but like they obviously don't consciously think of him this way, and I remember the post said that if the Joker was explicitly gay then he would lose his appeal to these people. my guess is that they semi-consciously file it under "he's CRAZAY"
to put it another way, one of the Shackles of Society that he's Cast Off is the compulsory performance of masculinity
a large majority of people hated Joker 2 specifically because there was 'gay scenes' in it and it became harder to self insert into.
@@smegellimes exactly, it goes past the plausible deniability threshold for them
Lots of mistrel comics who've made a career out of dressing as women are also extremely transphobic; right wing men in particular have always been obsessed with the abject & seek to embody it in "safe" ways as much as possible.
I see them dropping the whole class thing more as a confirmation that to arthur, this was never about justice, or making the world better in his eyes, or revolution against the system. It was the cause of it, but to him, it was always personal. It was about lashing out against the symptoms of an unfair society because of how they affected him, without much depth. Iirc, the only times he mentions how wealth disparity affects other people, its when hes including himself in those groups (people like "us"). His rebellion was never against systemic inequality, no matter what he says in murrays show. It was always about pushing back against what made his life miserable.
Like. For what it is worth. My life is a series of quiet angsty smoking scenes.
You forgot to mention the ending, when a piano randomly falls on Arthur's head and he just dies.
My favourite bit about most joker discussion online is that we aren't treating him like some insane terrorist and treating him as though he is somewhat rational
Very thrilled to have the whole comparison with MGS2. I was 17 when it hit and with the first gaming being a huge part of my freshman year of high school I was excited despite lacking in funds to pick it up. So when it did come out during a sleep over for the original Xbox launch (friend had worked all summer to save up for one) another friend brought over a PS2 along with Dynasty Warriors 3 and MGS2. We only played the tanker section as my friend complained about the "bait and switch". So after that point my interest was purely on the technical aspect and screwing around with the physics and the like. When I did finally get my own copy that summer I went in expecting to barely care about the plot. Then I got drawn in, by the time the massive plot/concept dump hit I was all in. Must have replayed the thing fully a dozen times until the follow up came out years later. I loved tackling the narrative from all the different angles, from commentary on the fans (which I do agree with to an extent) to the straight forward prophetic talk about echo chambers and an excessive amount of information.
18:20 i think this move was intentionally made to ruin the 1st one because people who made it are afraid of the first one, it is the horror in society's of the rich or and powerful people, that the common guy, whose back their wealthy is but on gets fed up, and kicks them off from their back.
"The only comic book about the Joker ever made" AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH
That it's always sunny intro was soooo fitting
Im glad im not the only person with that specific rabbids trauma
Now I want to know what Jack thought of Telltale Batman's Joker.